DDP Yoga

Wednesday, December 12, 2012

Quick Randoms

Scott,

Some random questions for you...

1. Was Scott Norton ever a target for Vince & the WWF?  He seems like the kind of power dude they love.  He looked like a legit tough guy, had a good heelish look, and had the lumbering, roided power offense Vince loved in the 90s.

Good question.  He could have had Norton any time he wanted when the AWA was on their deathbed, so I'm presuming that there wasn't any interest in him.  

2. Are there any guys you think should have been tag team partners (that could have actually happened, time-wise).  At a glance, Rick Martel & Paul Roma made sense to me as a pretty boy heel team ("Not in the face!").  Boss Man & Virgil teaming up against Money Inc., Nasty Boys, Disasters in '92 sounded logical to me at the time too.  The Crush/Adam Bomb 'New Demolition' thing could have been cool in '94 as well.  In '98, I loved the prospect of Benoit & Malenko vs. Jericho & Guerrero, when Dean & Jericho were feuding.  In 2000, a teaming of Saturn & Tazz could have been cool, especially with how deep the tag team ranks were that year.

I think Rick Rude and Randy Savage in 1989 would have been pretty awesome.

3. What one guy would you have liked to see absorbed during the WCW acquisition?  Several guys were left out; any glaring omissions?

AJ Styles.  He'd probably be a main eventer today for WWE if they had brought him in instead of cutting the contract loose and letting him go to TNA.  But really who knew that a random guy in the cruiserweight tag team division would turn out so awesome?


4. Was Hogan vs. Warrior II ever actually slated for a particular show (not the WCW version!)?

Wrestlemania VII.  It was pretty much planned from even before Warrior won the title in the first place.

5. What was Vince's fascination with Warrior?  For all the erratic behavior, contract/money demands, Vince had no problem getting rid of him a couple times, but he ends up back in '92 and '96.  For a guy who 'didn't draw' well enough to replace Hogan, what was the deal with WWF going back to him repeatedly?

He projected the air of a superstar and was juiced in as a main event guy. That's how it works.  

6. What ever happened to Dan Spivey?  Sid became a multi-time world champ in both promotions, but Spivey never really became anything.

Too many injuries, not dependable, wanted to work Japan.  Take your pick.  

7. In relation to the above question, is there an example of an established tag team having BOTH guys end up really successful?  One guy always ends up a bigger star (Hart Foundation, Rockers, Skyscrapers, Edge/Christian), but I guess the Hardys both did fine for themselves?

Yup, Hardys both did good, although Jeff is clearly the bigger star.  You could say Windham and Luger, I guess.  Dusty Rhodes and Dick Murdoch both did well for themselves.  

8. I remember it being mentioned in 2000 that, of the Radicalz, it was Perry Saturn the WWF really wanted to push.  Was that ever a 'thing'?  Benoit & Guerrero did well right out of the gate, but Saturn never really made it big.

I also recall hearing that they basically wanted Saturn and took the other three as bonuses.  


9. Along the lines of Saturn, are there any wrestlers you think were just best-suited for tag team work?

Jeff Hardy.  I'm glad he's doing well for himself, but every time he plays face in peril in a tag match it makes me wish he had stayed down that path instead.  

106 comments:

  1. Regarding the tag team what-if question: heel Austin and Angle in 2001. They worked well off each other in vignettes so why not as a tag team.


    Regarding the successful tag team question: Shawn Michaels and Diesel. Both headlined wrestlemania/starrcade several times and were multiple-time world champs after they were a tag team.

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  2. People may laugh now about number 8 but back then, Saturn was fucking legit. He would have excelled in the heavy suplex era that developed around 02-03. But by then, the moppy stuff killed him. Could totally see him and Benoit tearing it up as a team on Smackdown with the Guerreros.

    And Scott Norton is one of my favorite shitty wrestlers of all time. Dude was a bad ass. Vicious & Delicious were a pretty good under the radar tag team back them. Probably deserved at least one run with the belts.

    As for number 2, Cactus and Vader as a team in 92 would have been crazy. I thought Daniel Bryan and Cody Rhodes should have formed a team after WM this year. Brock and Kurt would have also ruled hard as a team. They could have done a legit version of the Mega Powers with them leading to Brock/Angle 2 at WM20.

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  3. I'm still hoping we get AJ Styles in WWE sometime down the road. There's definitely money to be made in feuds with Punk and Bryan.

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  4. Both Blade Runners did pretty well.

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  5. In 1993, in grade 8, I had a friend that was pretty convinced that Scott Norton was going to be the one to debut and slam Yoko.


    *SPOILER ALERT*


    Didn't happen.

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  6. By the time Norton would have become available to another North American promotion he'd struck it big with New Japan at a time when NJPW was in the process of becoming the most successful promotion in the world. It's unlikely he would have been willing to give up those lucrative dates in favor of a full-time schedule in the Big Two. Also at least at one point he was a major pain in the ass when it came to jobbing.


    I don't know of any specific plans for Hogan/Warrior to headline WM7. If there were, they were short-lived. WrestleMania 6 was considered to be a financial disappointment.

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  7. AJ's contract was one of the WCW 24 or whatever?

    EtA: Never mind. I was thinking of the 24 contracts they actually brought over (Chavo, Lance Storm, etc). Although I'm aware AJ (and Daniels?) were involved with WCW at the end, I guess I never thought of them as actually being under contract. Then again, WCW had Lanny Poffo under contract and he never appeared anywhere, house show or otherwise.

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  8. To elaborate: the show sold out before a match was announced (big show + wrestling-mad city + brand new state-of-the-art-or-so-we-thought stadium = sellout), so it's hard to say Warrior was in any way responsible for that. PPV numbers were what was considered disappointing--while acknowledging that WM was more expensive, both SummerSlams sandwiching it actually had more buys, keeping in mind they were respectively co-headlined by Zeus and Earthquake. CCTV was a complete disaster, failing to make back 50% of expenses.

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  9. That's what I figured happened with Norton when I read the post. His priority was Japan, Vince won't hire people unless their priority is the WWF/E.

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  10. Isn't there some kind of legit heat between Punk and Styles?

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  11. Shawn and Diesel were pretty much established singles before they started up as a team. I don't know if that really counts (I don't know if Luger and Windham count, either... I kind of feel like they were both established as well).


    I think Edge and Christian both did okay.

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  12. I wouldn't really count being Vinnie Vegas as being established as a singles wrestler.

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  13. What about them? Outside of the 1/4/93 Dome show which I'm sure they were already committed to and probably before they went on the road full-time anyway, they didn't work any Japan dates.

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  14. Warrior was more of a mid card guy (Lawler, Goldust) in his 1996 run. I guess they were planning to push him later in the year since he was supposed to team with HBK and Ahmed?

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  15. Yeah, I agree. Saturn is one of those guys I thought could have been big in both WCW and WWF. Neither happened. Kinda of a shame. I think he could have at least done well as a tag team guy alongside Raven, Tazz, or Benoit, as you mentioned.

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  16. Scott's Savage/Rude team in '89 could have been really interesting. They could have done plenty of subtle stuff with Rude trying to woo Liz, leading to an eventual psychotic break (and face turn) by Savage. Kind of a heel-Megapowers dynamic leading to Randy's triumphant return to babyface status.

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  17. No, I mean, isn't that why the Steiners were not kept around. They departed for Japan right?

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  18. It was moreso that the heel side was really weak on top when he came in. Diesel left and for a time Goldust was sort of their top heel, even if The Bulldog got the ppv matches against HBK. Aside from a feud with Vader, I don't see what else the Warrior would have done if he had stayed past July 1996.

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  19. Edge may be the bigger star, but Christian's had a career that most people who get in the business would envy. 1 of only 11 Grand Slam champions, 4 IC titles, 2 Big Gold Belt titles (4 if you're counting the WWECW, but I'm not) to go along with those 9 tag team titles (with tag team wrestling what it is today, he and Edge will go down as one of the last legendary WWE tag teams), and more importantly, over to the point where he has solid job/card security pretty much until he hangs it up.

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  20. don't forget about TNA/NWA world champ too

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  21. I'm sure Vader/Warrior for the title was in the works before HBK nixed it.

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  22. Good for HBK then, that match would have been death.

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  23. Yeah but 90% of his titles came when they didn't mean shit.

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  24. AJ Styles is the fucking man. Yeah that's all I've got.

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  25. Am I the only one that thought Saturn was pretty much useless? Sure he could do all those suplexes, but so could Taz. As far as I could tell Saturn couldn't do much else. He was a constant botcher, sucked on the mic, outside of doing a few spots he sucked in the ring too, and he had no charisma that I could see, he just leeched off Raven's. I don't even see him as a good tag guy, only memorable thing about the Eliminators was their finisher.

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  26. OK, that would have been fun, but Warrior should have never been anywhere near a title match.

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  27. Yeah, there is no way you can't say Christian has had a very successful career.

    Not as big as star as Edge was obviously but as a comparison with the Hardy's he's clearly done a lot better than Matt, and you could make an argument that he's done better than Jeff (depending on if you attach more value to merch sales or title wins)

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  28. I always heard it was Benoit they wanted, were fine with Guerrero and Malenko, but really Saturn only got taken on because he came with the rest of them.

    Can't square them really wanting to push Saturn with the fact they never did shit with him and Benoit was headlining against The Rock 6 months after debuting

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  29. I've never heard this Saturn thing before. That's bizarre, if true. Benoit was clearly the star of that group at that time.

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  30. No thread involving Dan Spivey can go by without mentioning that he was absolutely amazing as Waylon Mercy. Man, was that a great gimmick.

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  31. The original questions were mine. I didn't know AJ Styles was part of that WCW group in 2001. This is what I love about posing random questions on the BoD.

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  32. I dunno, Vader stiffing the shit out of Warrior would have been a glorious train wreck.

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  33. Every time I see the chopter, and hear the Hogan chants - I expect to see Hogan come back. I'm not totally unconvinced Vince hadn't planned to bring him back until about the midnight hour. He kept hinting at "updating about Hogan" in a serious non-hateful tone, and then Luger was the guy and Hulkamania was dead until 2002.

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  34. Didn't Saturn shoot/injure on some jobber which is why he got saddled with moppy?


    I don't get why WWE never signed Norman Smiley as a midcarder though he was awesome in WCW. Big Wiggle vs Stinkface would headline any arena in the country.

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  35. 1. With all due respect, Norton didn't have the look. He looked like a mid-carder, and that is what he was. Not even WCW took him seriously as a mid-carder. I won't say the WWF could have made him a star, if they wanted to, but he just didn't have the look in my opinion. Now Ice Train had the look, which is why I think Norton and Train tagged for a while. I think its why WWF hired him 10 years too late as M J Smoothe, because Train had the look. Norton did not.


    2. I would have liked to seen a Roma singles push against Jim Powers, instead of Power and Glory. I would have liked to seen Hercules stay a babyface in 1990.


    3. I've never been a big AJ Styles fan. Although if AJ Styles was in the WWE today, he could feud with AJ. It would be funny, and it would get as over as Edge and Christian did.


    I wished they had shelved the WCW and then waited for Nash, Hall, Hogan, and Goldberg to come through and then do the invasion in 2002. Instead, we had Vince first kill the WCW. Then bury the nWo. Then bury Hulkamania. Then bury Kevin Nash. Then bury Goldberg. Etc..


    4. If it wasn't for Savage vs. Warrior being something really cool, I wished they had stayed with the Hogan/Warrior rematch.


    5. Warrior was a name. Vince tried to get anybody with a name during the down years. Although, he had no plans of using him - Vince wanted to bring in the guy that had pinned Hogan and Savage, since they were in WCW. (I think Bischoff had launched the first shot on Saturday night with Kevin Sullivan beating up Cactus Jack.) Since Warrior did nothing in 1996, except squash Triple H, it was a waste of time. Hearing Warrior explain himself on his shoot interview is interesting to say the least. (He does have a semi-point about Hogan, sadly.)


    6. Drugs. Then again maybe not. If it wasn't for injuries, Waylon Mercy might have done something. (It's funny how Scott Hall-ish Spivey looked as Mercy.)


    7. Rocky Johnson and Tony Atlas. Okay, maybe not - but at least Laughing Tony Atlas was over, and Rocky's son got over. That counts for something right? Scott Steiner got more over than Rick Steiner. Owen might have been on the way to a re-push, as a comedy wrestler, but it wasn't to be.


    8. I liked Saturn, but after WCW couldn't do anything with him - I didn't expect WWF to do much. I kind of new Malenko was kind of there because the other guys were there. I kind of liked Eddie, and while I was anti-Benoit years before what he did - I knew he was a solid wrestler and the WWE would eventually pull the trigger on a title push. Saturn did get over with Moppy, but sadly mid-card comedy gimmicks don't lead to the Main Event. (Unless you're Edge, but then you're forced to become a Main Event character)


    9. Dynamite Kid, Chris Benoit, Flash Funk, Henry O Godwin, Phiniesis I Godwin, Jeff Jarrett, 1-2-3 Kid.

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  36. With Liz gone in 89, Rude would been woo-ing Sherri.

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  37. And a feud with AJ over the right to be called AJ.

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  38. There was legit heat between Lawler and Savage and Hogan and Savage.

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  39. Maybe, but Moppy was a cool gimmick. Saturn acting all crazy was always comedy gold at the time.

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  40. Yeah, I seem to recall they got into a fight at a Car Rental during Comic Con.


    I think it stems back to their ROH days.

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  41. no way jose-bot.


    Saturn was awesome pre-knee injury.

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  42. it currently reincarnated as the equally awesome bray wyatt.

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  43. Drugs? smh... his knees were shot by 95 and he had a hip operation. he worked ajpw and that cuts your time short, plus came into wrestling at 29-30 so he wasnt long for wrestling to begin with his style.

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  44. Saturn did the Taz gimmick in WCW better than Taz ever did himself, because he could suplex the shit out of guys AND have a great matches at the same time.

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  45. Agreed. It really saddens me that TNA uses their proclaimed 'face of the company' as someone they put on the backburner for years on end.

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  46. Fun fact: Styles ans his tag partner were repackaged on the final episode of Thunder for reasons known only to WCW. I remember Scott's head exploding over this.

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  47. Styles had a very brief cup of coffee with WCW at the end. Had WCW survived, I think he would have been a solid Cruiserweight champ, but WCW would have never given him a significant push beyond that.

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  48. Speaking of the WCW guys, I remember Jason Jett (the former EZ Money) having a really hot stretch of matches at the end of the company. And just like that, he was never heard from again. Whatever happened to that guy?

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  49. Saturn deserves royalties for the "You're welcome" catchphrase.

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  50. Nah, they'd just rename Styles "Gregory"

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  51. I remember him having a sideline in making bespoke wrestling gear for guys in the indies in the mid 00's

    No idea if that worked out for him or if he's still doing it

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  52. Something to do with Styles not leaving TNA when they all had a contract dispute, isn't it?

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  53. I fucking hated Norton so much. He didn't have a good look (though he was legit bad-ass), he was a shitty worker, and WCW kept him ridiculously protected because he was New Japan's favourite foreigner for years and was thus over-pushed THERE, too. Fuck that guy.

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  54. They should've pushed Saturn based on the fact he was unstoppable in Royal Rumble matches in "No Mercy" with his leg sweep.

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  55. TheRealCitizenSnipsDecember 13, 2012 at 3:13 AM

    Yes! The Scott Norton Sucks club has at least two members now.

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  56. Scott Norton is one of my favorite examples for how looks alone can have a huge part in making a wrestler. I remember seeing him on tv the first time. he hadn't even gotten in the ring yet and I already thought he was legit.

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  57. Actually Norton was a weird case because while WCW announcers had a hard-on for the guy, he lost the majority of his matches in WCW.

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  58. Totally agree about the 1-2-3 Kid and always wondered why he wasn't a full time tag wrestler. It just makes sense from a lot of perspectives: He often got himself injured and being a tag wrestler would mean he could rest his body and let his tag partner do the heavy lifting if he was hurt and also at the time the Kid was too small to be considered a credible IC title challenger and there was no cruiserweight division, so the tag division was the only thing that was left where fans could have brought him as champion.

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  59. I love AJ too but I really don't see WWE ever pushing him as a main eventer if he came into the company back in 2001. It just seems like he'd go the same way as Paul London, Spanky and Low Ki. But if AJ came into the WWE tomorrow, I could see WWE giving him a big push since the company has been pushing talented wrestlers in recent years, but back in 2001, AJ would have got lost in the shuffle and buried by Undertaker and HHH if he did manage to get himself over.

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  60. I was a huge Saturn fan during ECW and WCW, but he was pretty deteriorated by the time he got to the WWF. He was definitely awesome before then.


    And talk about "The Look"... he had it in spades.

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  61. Had Warrior stayed, I suspect he would of gotten the Sid push in 1996.

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  62. http://www.eztights.com/ Still making wrestling gear while being mostly retired, just wrestling a match or two a year now a days.

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  63. I do believe WWE offered AJ a developmental deal that wasn't worth it financially for AJ to move his family down to Ohio for so he rejected it and went to TNA instead. There's a video on youtube of a match which I'm guessing may have been his tryout against Hurricane Helms. I'm glad he didn't take the developmental deal because they probably would have stopped him from using half of his moveset (e.g. high-risk moves like the Asai DDT, Spinal Tap and maybe even the Pele kick)!

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  64. Norton belonged to the same 'club' in WCW that Fit Finlay did. whenever they were wrestling, the announcers would say something like "You ask anyone in the back, they'll tell you Norton is one of the toughest guys around!"

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  65. Kind of ironic that WWE developmental is based out of Florida now, where AJ works anyway. If he didn't

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  66. Edge and Christian would be my choice. If you just want to look at the amount of title reigns since they've broken up then easily Edge and Christian have got to be the most successful. Edge has a near record amount of World title reigns, Christian has had a couple, they've both held a couple secondary titles, Edge won KOTR and the Rumble, Christian won a world title in TNA as well. Plus both went on to be in several other successful tag teams. If you want to look at talent then they've gotta be up there as well. Edge and Christian have both had a bunch of great matches and feuds since splitting up.

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  67. I miss Tony talking him up as a two-sport athlete because of his arm wrestling tournaments

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  68. No, no, no, not Neidhart.

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  69. Jason Jett and EZ Money are the same guy? Huh, didn't know that.

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  70. That's interesting, I have never heard anyone that the WWF thought Wrestlemania 6 was a disappointment in any way, shape, or form. Where did you find this information?

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  71. Glad the wwf never signed scott norton but a program with him and ahmed johnson would have been gloriously horrible. Also sting would have been the #1 guy I would have wanted to see show up in wwe in 2001

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  72. Dynamite Kid tells a story where Spivey gave him some hash and his heart almost gave out.

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  73. Im not gonna discount that but Dynamite has been known to spout some bs...

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  74. I don't know about that. Although I did hear as well it was about on some ROH DVD Punk said he was better than AJ and I guess AJ is still pissy about it. Regardless both are stupid reasons to hate each other.

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  75. They also just seem like VERY different people

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  76. Just me hoping for Sid then? Anyone?

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  77. That was what he said in a promo during the first Summer of Punk. Punk and a few of the other ROH guys who were working TNA were told they couldn't work ROH. Punk wanted Styles, who was TNA Champion at the time, to stand with them as leverage so they could still work ROH, and Styles pussied out of it. Whether that was legit or just a story for the promo, I don't know.

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  78. Like Stu Hart cooking eggs with the same spatula that he scooped cat shit with...

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  79. Didn't Douglas try to tag along with the Radicals, but WWE told him to piss off?

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  80. It's so hard to tell because it sounds plausible but that's pretty much the Jesse Ventura union story with Hogan too, and Punk would be the type to know about that, and he's a worker. Still, better explanation than many.

    FWIW Styles has claimed he'll be like Sting and never work WWE, but that could just be because he's never been asked.

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  81. Yep. And that's why they dug WCW so much, they were Japan-friendly.

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  82. Nah they were much more liberal about moves at that point. Besides which, the Asai DDT is pretty safe, due to the pause between the moonsault and the reverse DDT.

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  83. 1. That guy really liked pancakes.
    7. According to 2003's PWI Years, their # 7 tag team featured singles wrestlers #14 and #16. Probably wasn't a fun night against them in 75, Stan Hansen and Frank Goodish, later Bruiser Brody.

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  84. Maybe. I loved Sid in 1996 too, and I did like him in the end of wcw but he already kinda washed up in 2001. I'm always down to see some Sid but unless you pair him against a great great worker the matches will suck. But better him than Buff Bagwell

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  85. 100% off topic but I wanted to ask you a question as the resident ROH expert. On the 411 fact or fiction article this week the last question was is El Generico the best wrestler in the WORLD. Did I miss something? I fully admit I've only seen his match against Brent Albright and a couple tag teams with him and Steen vs the briscoes and winning the title against some other guys. So I don't really know. Is he seriously that good? Did I miss something? He's arguably the best worker in the world? I always thought he was good I suppose, definitely can sell/work underdog but I can think of 15 guys better than him IMO. What did I miss?

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  86. Douglas and Konnan.

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  87. He just didnt have "the height" or "the sobriety"

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  88. Pure definition of "the look" absolutely terrible and no real passion. Im not asking the guy to be busting out ROH movesets but damn...

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  89. I kinda liked Norton and Ice Train for some reason.

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  90. Yeah, agreed. Bischoff and company definitely got the international scouting part right

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  91. Every time I see Konnan, I see "the guy who threw his shoes at people".


    And then I think of that line from Austin Powers.

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  92. I don't know how you could really say that Edge and Christian fits the description of "one guy becomes the bigger star," but the Hardys don't. Christian has achieved FAR more success in both WWE and TNA than Matt ever did.

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  93. That's unfair. That's like saying 100% of Cena's titles came when the title didn't mean anything. I would also say that Christian's World title feud with Randy Orton was during a period that the World Championship meant a lot more than it did during Sheamus' entire reign.

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  94. Well no, but Diesel had already been active for about a year in WWF, had the push at RR '94, main evented KOTR '94 and been IC Champ before he and Michaels won the Tag titles. That Tag Title run had the feel of being two singles guys dominating the Tag scene rather than them working as a Team full time.

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  95. Yeah, good point. Forgot about that bit of chronology

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  96. Yeah, Waltman always seemed to do good work as a tag team guy.

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  97. I agree. I thought Norman Smiley (and to some extent, Disco Inferno) were two guys who would have been really interesting in WWE.

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  98. Most of it is on the mark and stuff reported by Meltzer back in the day. On the bright side, the live gate was huge though so they had that going for them. The show didn't sell out before the match was announced, but they certainly sold a ton of tickets that first week. In terms of PPV numbers, Summer Slam 1990 slightly outdrew WrestleMania in buys (though not in revenue, WM was priced higher on average). I believe that's only ever happened twice --- in 1997 and 1990.

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  99. Some buddies and I would watch WCW back in the Monday Night Wars (we probably were 70/30 WCW) and Scott Norton was the only guy where if he actually hit someone, everybody in the room cringed because he looked super "legit". Sure the guy wasn't a very good wrestler, but badass doesn't begin to describe him back then.

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  100. I don't recall that- I remember him winning most of his matches, despite being a midcarder. He was one of Goldberg's semi-early "difficult matches" where he got a good bit of offense, but he was usually stomping smaller guys. I remember him beating Benoit one time.

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  101. Oh, you're totally right. But see, I really like bad movies and stupid jokes that barely make sense. Man, I love SID.

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  102. Sid was a terrible - yet I'd argue, very carryable - wrestler, and quite possibly the worse promo guy ever. But for some reason, I can't get enough of his work. Total guilty pleasure!

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  103. Yeah I would definitely not call him the best in the world, or even North America. Musta just been a CHIKARA mark.

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