Regular reader on the blog
Was wondering your thoughts on Japanese Pro Wrestling. You rarely speak about Puro(aside from the occasional Tanahashi match) More specifically I was wondering your thoughts on Japanese Wrestling in the 1990's. Were you a fan? Did you like AJPW or NJPW better? Or do you think it's overrated?
Also where would you rank some of the top Japanese stars(Misawa, Kobashi, Kawada, Jumbo, Liger, etc.) in terms of the Greatest Wrestlers ever? I'm not asking a numbered list or anything too crazy, just wondering your opinions on them.
Thanks for (hopefully) answering my question, looking forward to hearing your response on the blog.
My interest in Japan in the 90s was a pretty narrow subset consisting of New Japan Juniors and Michinoku Pro. I was never a big fan of the AJPW "strong style" stuff, which was generally characterized as guys taking a piledriver and then seemingly hitting three clotheslines before selling the original move like death. I respect the artform, it just wasn't my bag. That being said, I've seen tons of Misawa-Kawada-Kobashi combinations and I've loved 99% of them as individual matches. Not to mention that the style pretty heavily influenced the current WWE "trading a million finishers" style that has permeated the main event for years now. And of course Muta and Liger are pretty high up on my all-time favorites list.
I'm seriously digging NJPW's current run, including The New Beginning. Can't wait to see the CHAOS/Suzuki-Gun war unfold.
ReplyDeleteHoly crap that was an insanely quick turn around in terms of answering my question. I sent it about 3 hours ago or something. I found a YouTube channel with something like 500 videos of what has to be most of the big matches in All Japan which is what prompted the question. I've just watched the most famous Kawada-Misawa match from 94 and it's pretty wild stuff.
ReplyDeleteI should have also asked about the Japanese Women as well. Ah well, next time.
New Japan has been great. Ironically enough the only reason I checked out one of their shows was because MVP was debuting. I've never been a huge Puro guy but Tanahashi is kicking some serious ass.
ReplyDeleteThe funny thing is, I'm into some of the undercard guys more - Suzuki, Makabe and, of all people, Yuji Nagata. And that's on top of the juniors. Devitt/Takahashi will be fun to watch.
ReplyDeleteIs Devitt moving up to the heavyweight division?
ReplyDeleteI don't think it's a full-time thing. But he did score a pinfall over Takahashi and they're having a non-title match to headline the anniversary show. The stip is, Tanahashi vowed to vacate the title if he loses and earn a title match again in the New Japan Cup.
ReplyDeleteLink the channel, man!
ReplyDeleteMy favorite 90's Japanese dude was Hayabusa. I'm not sure why WWF or WCW didn't try to cash in on him. Also seeing Vader go back to Japan in 99' and tear it up was awesome.
ReplyDeleteI used to like njpw junior stuff from the early-mid 90s. Can't watch most of those any more obviously. I've got a couple of tapes of Muta stuff also, which are great. Muta is really the Savage of Japan. I've also seen a little AJPW stuff with Kawada and the like and I find it difficult to watch. Long, plodding matches really need commentary to keep me interested.
ReplyDelete"Strong Style" was NJPW. AJPW's was "Fighting Spirit."
ReplyDeleteAJPW didn't do strong style, NJPW did AJPW used The Kings road or fighting spirit style
ReplyDeleteHave watched very little of if but it's something ive always wanted to check out
ReplyDeleteI dug Hayabusa when he wasn't deathmatching. He was a pretty decent high-flyer, plus he gave us the Phoenix Splash.
ReplyDeletePuro saved my wrestling fandom. I only realy got into it about three years ago(Yeah, poor timing), but I just fell in love with ALL of it. From the stupidest DDT nonesense to going apeshit when I saw the Ganso Bomb was real(Hangmans DDT, for the nerds), it just struck a chord with me.
ReplyDeleteOf course, to really appreciate a lot of it, you have to in turn watch a lot of it. AJPW/NOAH heavyweight wars can sort of blur together, and Lucharesu can look 100% choreographed gymnastics. but who cares? It just so damn cool.
My favorite thing about 90's All Japan was insane head-drop moves followed by golfers claps. That was so much more bad-ass than unprotected chair shots followed by 20 minutes of "ECW, ECW".
ReplyDeleteThat's just it he could do it all - high flying, hardcore, technical. He had a great look, great ability, big enough to be a WWE guy, insane moves, cool mask, cool name, he was the total package.
ReplyDeleteI'm not totally sure I grasp the difference. Is "Strong Style" really stiff striking and a lot of submissions, while "Fight Spirit" is guys getting dropped straight on their head only to kick out at 2 and go into no-sell mode? Is the striking different between "Strong" and "Spirit" styles? Because Kawada, Misawa, Taue, Kobashi, etc... all had signature strike moves that would often finish after their head-drops had failed.
ReplyDelete"Strong style" and "king's road" are marketing terms, like "sports entertainment." They're each attached to a certain company but as terms they're meaningless.
ReplyDeleteJumbo Tsuruta is the greatest wrestler who ever lived.
ReplyDeleteHayabusa was pretty great, shame he broke his neck on a routine spot.
ReplyDeleteI always saw it as strong style being more "realistic." Because they rely more or strikes and submission, there is a limit to what the human body can take, so you have to actually keep the pain tolerance within the realms of reality.
ReplyDeleteIn King's Road or Fighting Spirit, the emphasis was on a hierarchy of moves and you moved further up your moveset in impact and spectacle depending how serious the match was getting. As your opponent pushes you further and further and the match goes longer and longer and more brutal, what moves are you willing to pull out? For Misawa vs Kawada, it was Misawa finally using the sick head drop Tiger Driver. For Fightig Spirit, I always felt that the wrestlers were supposed to be more than mortals, maybe not Gods, but definitely a step above most men. Strong was more in the realm of mortals.
http://www.youtube.com/user/ClassicPuro/videos?view=0&flow=grid
ReplyDeleteIt's gonna sound really weird and stupid, but I like the way the mat looked, and the way it sounded when they'd bump on it.
ReplyDeleteThey are just labels given to the two different styles from AJPW and NJPW. As others have said NJPW emphasized striking and submissions as a means to make wrestling appear more real. They made it seem like a chess match.
ReplyDeleteWhereas AJPW submitted the realism and added more story telling and drama to their matches. They'd typically have longer matches than New Japan. And as you mentioned they'd head drop a lot more(especially in 1997 on) and do the whole adrenaline no sell thing. A lot of the guys also had in addition to their finishers had special finishers on top of that. On special occasion Misawa would bust out the Tiger Driver '91 when all else failed. Kobashi would use the burning hammer(I think he only ever used that move 7 times. Theres a video on YouTube)