Hi Scott,
Just read about you naming Austin #1 worker out of Austin, Brock, Rock, Cena.
I've been thinking a lot about what I used to like about Austin during the Attitude era, and what's missing from a lot of today's wrestlers, and I think a lot of it is attention to detail. Austin did all of the little things really well - things like rolling onto his stomach to avoid a pinfall after a big move, or after kicking out; the way he'd sell moves convincingly without going over the top, making guys look like a threat even though he was billed for a long time as the top guy; the fact that he could throw a punch.
There's lots of other things of course, but it's these little things I pay attention to now when I watch his (and others) old matches on YouTube compared to some of the stale, lazy crap being thrown out on WWE TV nowadays.
Wondered what you thought about the lazy style of some of today's workers.
don't think it's lazy, it's just the style that they're taught in and it doesn't lend itself well to details like that. I honestly don't blame the guys for it, because they're working stadium-style (big cartoonish selling and exchanging finishers) and the previous generation learned arena-style (details in selling and psychology). It's just different, not necessarily worse or better.
Today's style, you can pretty much predict when the babyface makes the comeback, and when the Five Moves of Doom are going to be hit (face it, there are many guys on the roster who have 4-5 moves in their moveset that they save for the last three minutes of the match). There's nothing overly wrong with it, but it's very mechanical and sometimes can induce boredom when watching a long show. I believe it stems from WWE wanting to be more safe in the ring, protecting their "investments". Do you think Daniel Bryan's diving headbutt induces cringes backstage?
ReplyDeleteBryan doesn't do it Benoit-style as far as I can tell. Benoit would take all the impact on his own neck ala Dynamite Kid, whereas Bryan seems to be just taking a flat front bump without actually making contact.
ReplyDeleteAustin had pretty bad punches, to be honest.
ReplyDeleteI never understood why anyone would do that. I don't mean the psychology within the world of wrestling, where a diving headbutt is a high impact move designed to help win a match, in kayfabe terms...I mean in terms of taking that kind of bump that's just going to f'k your neck up. It's the same feeling I have watching some of Foley's stuff from his early days. That damn Nestea Plunge thing he did. Christ, if I wanted to be a pro wrestler but doing shit like that was the only way I could get over, I would seriously consider a career change..
ReplyDeleteScott, one of the leading causes of CTE is not just the big shots to the head but the repeated concussive blows (think linemen in football). I really, really wish the diving headbutt would go away.
ReplyDeleteI always felt bad for the wrestlers that had to take the "Doomsday Device" from the Road Warriors.
ReplyDeleteEven in kayfabe its pretty dumb. No reason to do that move other than to be like Dynamite & Benoit. Which, considering how those two ended up, is a pretty bad reason.
ReplyDeleteMe too, just because it's stupid. It just looks like it would do more damage to the guy doing it than the guy taking it.
ReplyDeleteThat was like playing Russian Roulette. You never knew how hard or at what angle the impact of Hawk's clothesline would come from. You didn't know if Animal would flip your legs over to help you out or not (sometimes he did, sometimes he didn't). Only the lucky ones would get would get the electric chair style bump with Animal falling with them (but I only saw that a few times).
ReplyDeleteThere's really not much you can do about those. I'm guessing you meant to type SUB-concussive blows, and the scary thing is....that's not even the worst of it. It's anything that causes your head to violently jerk, rattling your brain inside the skull.
ReplyDeleteReally, as a pro wrestler, you're doing as well by yourself as you possibly can by avoiding the huge head shots. Because your brain's gonna get rattled.
I don't know. Like most impact top rope moves, I doubt it would feel good for either.
ReplyDeleteLike...there's no way the 5-star frog splash doesn't feel like a motherfucker for both dudes.
I wish there was a wrestler today whose gimmick was that they were a student of wrestling. Maybe there would be backstage shots of him watching replays of matches, or studying his upcoming opponent's previous matches. If he loses a match, and wrestles that same guy again, he won't lose for the same reason if he loses the rematch at all. He loses to Rey Mysterio's 619? Maybe next time he'll ask for the rematch to be a steel cage match or a falls count anywhere match.
ReplyDeleteI would think a guy at that would be great at the details as he reached the "peak" of his career.
Sure, but RVD isn't landing on his head when he does the ***** frog splash.
ReplyDeleteI think this is just little stuff that performers learn that helps very them over independently of everything else. Plus Austin was a well traveled vet of 3 promotions that knew every trick of the trade. But yea, that little stuff is cool when its done.
ReplyDeleteThe wrestler is called Triple H.
ReplyDeleteThe amazing thing was, it's not like Benoit didn't know Dynamite's style had landed him in a wheelchair. And yet he still went out there and imitated him, and surprise surprise his body was a wreck even before he did what he did. And then you've got Bryan doing the headbutt too. Even if he's taking the bump differently, it's a dumb move. Plus, in kayfabe, it's almost never a match ender and it leaves the wrestler doing it exposed if they miss or the guy rolls out of the way. High risk, not enough reward. It should be retired as a move.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of the Road Warriors, man, was there a worse time to be a jobber then in the 80s tag scene? The Bulldogs, Roadies, Steiners, and Midnight Express would bounce geeks around so bad I'd be amazed if they could eat solid food for a week.
1. Modern WWE wrestlers aren't allowed to be smart (except HHH) and scouting your opponent would be a really smart thing to do.
ReplyDelete2. It cuts into the announcers' trope of "oh, he had that move well-scouted!" when a guy pulls off a counter or a reversal. As if you really need to be intensively studying tape to know that, say, John Cena will try to shoulder-block you during a match or that Kane likes chokeslams.
3. It's more likely that this would be played as a comedy gimmick. "He's watching these tapes? What a nerd!"
4. Modern WWE wrestlers don't learn from past losses or past matches. If they did, Cody or Sandow wouldn't have lost to Sheamus 20 times over the last year in exactly the same fashion.
Don't get me wrong, your idea is a legitimately great idea for a gimmick, it's just that WWE as a whole isn't written well enough to support it.
Having taken the "Get clotheslined and just flip off of shoulders onto your head" version, it's NOT fun. Visually exciting though.
ReplyDeleteAs Mar Solo mentions, that's pretty much HHH's character and they play it up sometimes, like him being the first wrestler (I think) to counter the five knuckle shuffle.
ReplyDeleteAustin's punches were awful. I would let him pound me in the ballsack with his pitter patter working punches.
ReplyDeleteDidn't they try this with Eugene? Mentally-challenged outside the ring, savant inside? If not, they should have.
ReplyDeleteI like the idea of a smart wrestler scouting out their opponents. Checking under the ring for a sledgehammer before a HHH match, removing all the sweat socks from Mankind's gym bag, superglueing the casket shut before facing the Undertaker, marking one of the Bellas with a sharpie before they can do twin magic, ...................
ReplyDeleteReally, The Rock is the luckiest and smartest wrestler of all time.
ReplyDeleteHis style was safe, he did it for a relatively short time, and thanks to his star quality and acting abilities he got the fuck out of THIS BUSINESS. He has the ideal career.
Cena on the other hand might have the greatest slow-burn career ever (aside from Flair). He can definitely go for an hour, he can work, and although his matches are more physical than Rock's he's still safe. However he can't leave and go to a better career like Rock because he's not that kind of talent, but he could certainly be a good wrestler for another 10-15 years.
Foley, Funk, Benoit etc. are fucking crazy, but goddamn they bled for their art.
The problem is wrestlers are basically taking minor amounts of brain rattling on all kinds of different minor moves that don't even involve the head. Getting rid of the big headshot stuff asan every day move helps but they will always be at risk
ReplyDelete