Scott,
You wrote that someone needs to beat HHH's ass, and isnt the obvious person there Daniel Bryan himself. You can have Bryan finally beat Orton for the belt at HIAC and retain through the end of 2013 when Triple H decides the only man he can turn to is another former enemy, Brock Lesnar. At the Rumble Brock beats Bryan with Triple H's help and CM Punk wins the Rumble. This would set up Brock/Punk for the WWE Title and Bryan/HHH in a gimmick match (streetfight/I Quit) at Wrestlemania. Throw in Cena/Undertaker with the story being Cena coming back from injury going for one last achievement to add to his legacy. That's a hell of a triple main event and NO involvement from Rock, Austin, or Vince.
eah, I'm pretty sure Bryan is getting screwed at NOC and then wins it at HIAC. And I'm also pretty sure that Brock will the ultimate corporate champion, the hired gun who's good for business and destroys everything. That will also get Punk involved. So yes, your idea seems very likely and I endorse it.
Part of me feels there's no need for Brock to have the strap, but this is a great scenario and it would be fun to watch it play out.
ReplyDeleteI also like the idea of Bryan vs HHH, even though it puts the WM spotlight on you-know-who before someone else.
I think the only open hole here is, where would all of this leave Orton?
And in between Rumble and Mania, an EC match with Brock destroying 5 other babyfaces to retain will be awesome.
ReplyDeleteAgainst the Shield, or a returning Sheamus. Or against a returning Rhodes. Ton of options.
ReplyDeleteI'm kinda disappointed they're going with Bryan/Orton at NOC. If ever there was a storyline crying out for the underdog to smash his way through all obstacles put before him and THEN take the title from the champion it's this story.
ReplyDeleteWe're all expecting Orton to walk out of NOC as champ, so why not feed him Show or Ziggler or someone and let Daniel Bryan overcome the odds against The Shield? I wouldn't mind a longer version of Bryan/Rollins we got last week that's for sure.
Maybe he goes AWOL for a few months...
ReplyDeleteBryan needs to get screwed so HIAC can happen.
ReplyDeleteI see what you did there.
ReplyDeleteThat's...a really good idea, actually. Huh. Well said! Hope it pans out.
ReplyDeleteSee, I want Brock to be the the guy that DB BEATS to solidify his status, though I'll freely admit to having no idea how to get there without leaving a bunch of people in the cold.
ReplyDeleteHHH refuses Bryan any more title shots, so he has to win the Rumble. Cena returns and defeats Orton for the title. HHH will do anything to avoid Cena/Bryan at Mania so he makes Cena defend against Brock the night after EC. Brock wins and you get Brock/Bryan for the title at Mania.
ReplyDelete*Nod* But what do you do then with Punk, Cena, Orton? You still have the obvious Cena/Taker but everything else is still murky.
ReplyDeleteI think they could do a great story where Daniel Bryan wins the Rumble, Brock refuses to wrestle Bryan because Bryan is "beneath" Brock. So Daniel Bryan challenges Brock for Elimination Chamber and pins Brock with the small package. Brock challenges for a submission match at Wrestlemania. Daniel Bryan comes out and says that he got someone to help train him for Wrestlemania: Randy Couture.
ReplyDeleteI hope WWE is willing to shell out the necessary coin for more PPV appearances. Say what you will about more frequent appearances diminishing his drawing power, but Brock is dynamite for the product.
ReplyDeletePunk/HHH and like I said below, you could do a ton of different things with Orton based off all guys who screwed over the past few months.
ReplyDeleteI think Punk could beat Orton for the title at SurSer, drops it to Brock at Rumble, who then drops it to Bryan at Mania.
ReplyDeleteThen, because I'm in the mood for self-effacing pipe dreams, you put Orton and Punk as captains of Team HHH and Team Vince, respectively, for a Wargames style match while Cena faces The Undertaker. If nothing else, it frees up the card for more guys to get on the show, and keeps some of the less immediately-compelling guys on the card from clogging up other spots on the show.
You mean the same Randy Couture that Brock smashed?
ReplyDeleteAt some point Punk has to beat Lesnar, clean.
ReplyDeleteSo, your plan for Wrestlemania is for the two guys involved in one of the biggest matches to face off in the PPV before mania?
ReplyDeleteI thought they'd fought twice. I know Brock beat him but I thought Couture had won once. But I thought it was a nice tie-in because DBD had actually trained with Couture.
ReplyDeleteTrue, he does, but if he gets screwed each time he's beat, you could transfer the heat onto Punk's next feud to bide time until Brock is in a position where you can afford to beat him.
ReplyDeleteThat's Frank Mir.
ReplyDeleteBrock fought Frank Mir twice. Mir won by submission the first time, then Brock won by facemurder the second time.
ReplyDeleteYes, not exactly uncommon when you think of all the "non-title challenger beats champion" matches in WWE.
ReplyDeleteAs you can see, I'm a UFC superfan.
ReplyDeleteNo he doesn't.
ReplyDeleteEh, Couture doesn't mean shit to WWE fans, and the WWE has no reason to bring him in and try to build him up as a big deal.
ReplyDeletePitch him as a submission expert who fought Brock in UFC. Then Brock can point out he beat Couture. The larger point of the storyline is to have Daniel Bryan get a fluke-y win and then win by submission.
ReplyDeleteNo offense, but this is not a good idea.
ReplyDeleteObviously Punk doesn't HAVE to beat Lesnar, so long as they don't care about making money off of CM Punk. But if WWE does look at Punk as a guy who they want to be a top level PPV/merchanise/house-show selling face, then yeah he can't lose another high profile rematch to Lesnar.
ReplyDeletePunk has to back up his tough talk at some point or his fans will sour on him. If they do a rematch, which they should, Punk needs to beat Lesnar clean.
None taken. I'm not part of WWE creative and I'm not infallible. I would like to write some day (screenwriting or for WWE or TNA) so I like criticism.
ReplyDeleteRight, but that's all the belt's that don't matter. can you honestly think of an example that applies to the big title?
ReplyDeleteNo, it's a fair point. I didn't do a great job of explaining it in my original post but I see what you're saying. I think you'd have to go back to Batista/Cena in 2010.
ReplyDeleteHaving Punk lose to Brock again wouldn't do him any favors, but there's also no real reason they have to run Punk/Lesnar again at all. With Lesnar working on a limited appearance schedule, they'd probably be better off giving him a variety of opponents.
ReplyDeleteI don't think WWE wants to advance the idea that somebody who is from UFC has anything to teach a pro wrestler.
ReplyDeleteThis is a good scenario. It also allows Brock to have the belt, but since he'd lose it a couple months later, they don't have to make excuses why he's not defending it for months at a time.
ReplyDeleteI'd go the other way around. I'd do HHH vs Bryan at Royal Rumble, then Bryan vs Lesnar at WM XXX. Bryan vs Lesnar could be a huge Wrestlemania main event if booked properly. Punk vs Lesnar is big, but we've already seen it. To me, that would make a better sub-main event at WM XXX.
ReplyDeleteWere HHH's matches against Punk and his first against Lesnar any different than his Wrestlemania one with Brock and the two he had with Undertaker? Because if not I don't want to watch HHH wrestle anymore.
ReplyDeleteI think they could do big business on a triple main event of:
ReplyDeleteHHH vs. Daniel Bryan (WWE title, main main event)
Cena vs. Taker
Punk vs. Lesnar.
But who grants him the rematch?
ReplyDeleteI was hoping this current strong run of booking wouldn't be relying on screwjob finishes again to set up rematches.
He could wrestle his way to a rematch? Possibly a gauntlet match against the Shield with Vince stepping in to guarantee a winner?
ReplyDeleteI mean, it's not a TERRIBLE idea until you get to the Randy Couture part. That's no good. You could probably argue the other stuff and get away with it.
ReplyDeleteThe gestalt is to establish Daniel Bryan as a Rocky character (the movie, not the wrestler) against Brock. Give him a fluke-y first win and then show him overcoming Bork at Wrestlemania. Perhaps akin to how Eddie beat Brock in '04 but with no Goldberg interference and a tap out.
ReplyDeleteIf Cena is facing the Undertaker, trust me, THAT is the "main main event" of any card.
ReplyDeleteMinor threadjack: I am digging this Brodus Clay interview. The whole Cameron-Total Divas BS starts being addressed after the 10 or 11 minute mark, I believe. Brodus just can't help himself from telling the truth even if he is biting his tongue every 30 seconds from taking it too far.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.allwrestlingnews.com/wwe-news/brodus-clay-discusses-incident-camerons-boyfriend/
I like the matches that the e-mailer came up with, but Bryan/Trips HAS to be for the title - otherwise, what's the point of having Trips spend six+ months saying that Bryan doesn't have what it takes to be champion, if the final blow-off doesn't result in Bryan being champion?
ReplyDeleteYeah I see HHH/Bryan happening for sure - it's one match I'd like to see HHH wrestle actually
ReplyDeletewell, presumably, once he's been champion for four months the rhetoric would be somewhat different.
ReplyDeleteIt's a completely different dynamic with him as a heel. People will pay to see him get his ass kicked. That's what this is about.
ReplyDeleteNot enough HHH hate. Here is what will happen:
ReplyDeleteNoC The Shield interference causes Bryan to lose against Orton. Bryan then moves on to feud with Ambrose over the US title, because of course that will happen.
HHH, mad at Orton for almost losing the title, turns on Orton and those two go and fight for the title at HitC. HHH, of course wins, and holds onto the title until WM. Orton wins Royal Rumble and faces HHH at WM.
Bryan wins the US title from Ambrose at some point, then loses a bunch of matches in a row.
CM Punk gets tired of the BS and quits.
People on this blog go "DAMN THAT HHH!" But ignore the lessons of the past and continue to say he will do what is good for business and that those who are tired of seeing HHH go over people when he's retired need to get over it.
Now THAT is negative!
True, but it just feels like a step down for me.
ReplyDeleteComplete with him smashing open the pods to get to some of them.
ReplyDeleteJust one guy's opinion, but...
ReplyDeletePunk/Trips from "Night of Champions, 2011" was friggin' AWFUL. Just an atrociously bad match that both guys should be ashamed of.
I actually thought all three Brock/Trips matches were decent - sure, the build for all three was terrible, and the second and third lacked any real heat (and really had no reason to happen), but I enjoyed all three as they were happening.
I thought "WM27" was pretty boring, but I really liked "WM28" a lot.
I can't tell if you're mocking the HHH defenders, HHH detractors, or both. I'm thinking both.
ReplyDeleteI'd just rather them not have another match. I'm sick of 50/50 booking, and endless rematches. Plus, Punk's issue is with Heyman, not Brock.
ReplyDeleteThe thought just made me mark out.
ReplyDeleteThe WM matches are great, but the Brock stuff and Punk stuff is atrocious. I can't endorse anything leading to more HHH matches, based on those.
ReplyDeleteBryan/Lesnar would be workrate gold, also, I'm guessing. Especially with Brock's current style.
ReplyDeleteWhat do you have against the Couture idea? I kind of liked it, actually.
ReplyDeleteWhy? It's not like he copy/pasted this from Reddit.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if he doesn't earn his rematch until he wins the Rumble, in which HHH screws him by making him go first.
ReplyDeleteI think I just stumbled into fantasy booking hell.
ReplyDeleteHis first match against lesnar was baaaad. I know Scott gave it 3 stars but it went 20 minutes and there was a lot of hhh self indulgence in it. Very very boring match. It was supposed to tell a story of hhh never backing down, but coming up short. In your mind you can imagine what that looks like. His match with cm punk was OK but not great. I got into an argument about it on here with some hhh fans who claimed it was great. It was an OK match with a fuck ton of overbooking and punk jobs. IMO the punk vs rock matches were far superior and I know lots of people didn't like those (I found them to be OK) so this match was worse.
ReplyDeleteExactly. Hhh's days of having a good match are over. I mean he couldn't have a good match with cm fucking punk.
ReplyDeleteI don't want to see Brock job to anyone including Daniel Bryan. I feel like cena laying down for him like he did, and then when he beats Orton that's more than enough to solidify this guy. And if hhh want to put him over by doing the job its fine but I would rather see Bryan wrestle a dude who could give him a good match.
ReplyDeleteOh and I just want to know why during wrestlemania season I had to read 10,000 posts about how much the rock sucked in the ring and how outrageous it was he went over punk and how he double sucked for putting over cena (god forbid cena gets his win back). But now those exact same posters are ridiculing people who have the audacity to point out hhh hasn't had a good match in 8 years, is poison to anyone trying to get over (rock let punk and cena get boat loads of heat by shitting on him in promos, hhh has never ever done that, he made big show cry and the entire roster is scared of him) and unlike rock, hhh has pulled every trick in the book to avoid doing a job. The last time we did this he undercut everything cool about punks promos and made him work as a whiny bitch, pinned him clean and shunted him to the mid card while he main evented a show vs Nash. But yeah, rocks the prick.
ReplyDeleteWhatever happens, I just hope they don't splurge and put the belt on Bryan at NoC. I suppose it would be cool if he wins it at HIAC na dhtne HHH/Orton continue to try and shenanigan there way to getting the belt off of him. Perhaps we could get a 5-on-5 at Survivor Series - Bryan/Punk/Big Show/Ziggler/Rhodes vs Orton/HHH/Shield...except with a WAR GAMES twist.
ReplyDeleteAnd before someone brings up the two undertaker matches 1)the wm27 one wasn't good and you didn't like it so stop it. 2) the wm28 one was fine but it got every trick in the book and 30 minutes of time and hbk was involved, oh and the biggest pop was off superkick near fall
ReplyDeleteThis angle is getting over like half the roster. Frankly I enjoy both HHH and Rock so I don't get the negativity with either.
ReplyDeleteAm I the only one thinking they are foreshadowing a big show heel turn at noc? Have him cost d bry the win and join team Orton?
ReplyDeleteDaniel Bryan is half the roster?
ReplyDeleteI think a better question is why we "have" to read 10,000 posts just from you alone going into in depth detail about why HHH is the anti-christ.
ReplyDeleteAnd...I can't find a single post in this thread complaining about the Rock.
Maybe you should try and master reading comprehension as well as you've mastered being smarmy. I said during wrestlemania season
ReplyDeleteBig Show turning heel / face again? GTFO!
ReplyDeleteBig Show's treatment on Monday was so over the top that I've gone back and forth on whether he'll turn heel. But I'm not sure what the end-game is, because that would lead to a Bryan-Big Show matchup. I do think it seems to be building more towards a case where Big Show keeps getting humiliated until he finally loses it and punches out the Shield.
ReplyDeleteYeah but "beating Heyman" doesn't really mean anything— he needs to beat Heyman's biggest star as well. Hogan didn't win feuds with Heenan by pinning heenan, he did it by beating Andre.
ReplyDeleteBrock is awesome, yeah, but I personally think it's retarded to just end things with Brock having beaten one of the company's most important everyday stars. Brock should be kept as strong as possible but then put over the big money guys who have to carry teh company day to day.
Orton? Show? Cody?
ReplyDeleteSo you want to see the heel that wrestles 3 times a year going over all the top faces? Briliant!
ReplyDeleteYeah it's nitpicking, but again I don't think there's ANY reason for WWE to put Randy Couture over as anything. Nobody who watches WWE gives half a shit about him, and there's zero reason for them to make it seem like UFC guys are bigger deals than WWE guys.
ReplyDeleteThe whole "everyone on the roster shits their pants when Tito Ortiz walks out" is one of the many things that makes TNA look so bush league.
Why should Brock be going over the everyday guys that WWE needs to make money with all year long? Because Brock's cool n stuff? They absolutely need to start using Brock to put over guys like Punk, Bryan, Sheamus, Ziggler whoever. To me it's nuts that they haven't used Brock yet to create a new megastar.
ReplyDeleteYeah, it was sort of tangential to the main story but I see the point as it would also distract from the main story. In terms of seeing that it's not a good idea, along with your Tito point there's also ROH bringing in Severn for Richards/Edwards II and the failed Shamrock/Severn examples in WWF.
ReplyDeleteI'm a guy who will defend some of HHH's past work but based on what I've seen of him since he stopped being full time he just doesn't have it.
ReplyDeleteThey could easily have their cake and eat it, too - Show costs Bryan the match at "NOC", the two have a short feud where Show loses, and then Trips rips into Show for being a loser. Show then turns back face, and helps fight against the evil Corporation.
ReplyDeleteI know, Show's constant turns are a running joke, but I think it would work well in this scenario. It gives Bryan a big win over a much larger opponent, and then also gives Bryan strong back-up against the heels.
They might have Henry on the team instead of Punk. Henry's had issues with the Shield from not too long ago.
ReplyDeleteI think Show has finally broken the heel/face barrier. He's neither nor is is he 'shades of grey'. He's whatever the storyline calls for at that exact moment. When WWE needs him to be sympathetic, he's a face. When they need a swerve (one week later) he's a heel. When they need a surprise opponent to punish a heel, face. When a face needs punishment, he's a heel. He's not a Giant. He's not a Show. He's not an avalanche or a fish. He's not even a man, anymore. He's just a 7'0 tall, 475 lb. plot device.
ReplyDeleteEh, Mania happened for HHH to get his win back. My bone to pick with HHH's matches have been that they're constructed the same way: brawl to start followed by move, rest, move, rest where the rest was supposed to be "selling" and/or "methodical" but it came across as "not having the wind" and/or "boring".
ReplyDeleteI thought those Punk/Rock matches were brutally bad. Again, just one guy's opinion.
ReplyDeleteA Big Show heel turn is foreshadowed whenever he appears onscreen. So is a Big Show face turn.
ReplyDeleteIt's a catch-22 because on one hand, Brock's not around a lot so having him go over everyone seems inefficient but it keeps him protected and makes his appearances seem special. At the same time, if all he did was lose every time he was around, it'd make the current guys look like they're at his level, but he'd quickly lose his aura and the fans wouldn't care nearly as much when he returned because everyone knew he'd be losing.
ReplyDeleteWell, I meant "OTHER than so Trips could get his win back".
ReplyDeleteOver the last few years, he always try to have these long, "epic" matches, and it usually falls flat. And it's not even that they're all necessarily BAD matches, just kind of plain and run-of-the-mill.
And we're done here
ReplyDeleteHe hasn't turned heel in three weeks, so he's due.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that booking is doing big show any favors but you're right about orton.This is the most over hes been in many years. That's still not half the roster
ReplyDeleteThis is all subjective (obviously). The Undertaker matches were good when you thought the streak might end, but rewatches aren't kind to them. My abiding memories are plodding and resting. Though I admittedly haven't watched a HHH match since Mania.
ReplyDeleteIf you think ziggler standing there week after week doing nothing is getting him over I don't know what to tell you. Now if you want to talk about how a feud with Ambrose could get him over you might be on to something
ReplyDeleteBeating Heyman means everything to Punk, that is who he has a blood feud with.
ReplyDeleteI totally understand it's a delicate balance booking Lesnar (and other part-timers like Taker or HHH or Rock), but they are doing themselves a major disservice by having Brock and the part-timers seem like they're a super league that exists above the everyday bozos that fans are expected to pay to see 99% of the year. WWE has really gone heavily on the "part-timers go over everytime" side of the fence, and I just think that's a bad way to do business.
ReplyDeleteSO with Brock in particular, yeah they need to keep his aura up but at the same time he needs to put over some everyday stars that WWE is gonna count on to draw money for years to come. Especially in a case like Brock's, you figure he's got a limited amount of dates he's ever going to do, so WWE needs to figure out how to maximize those in terms of box office and also elevating other guys. I mean, let's say Punk goes over Brock in a rematch at Survivor Series or Hell in teh Cell or something. Will people not still pop when Brock's music hits a few months later and he has a crazy brawl with say Sheamus or Bryan?
Basically, if Brock jobs in a match, they need to find a compelling context for his return that makes people care, and they still will.
I just think that having Lesnar go over the regulars and ONLY be able to be beaten by the other part-timers ( I fucking HATE HATE HATE the idea of a Lesnar-Taker match at Mania) is a terrible idea.
Brock is a very rare thing. In fact there has probably never been a guy in this spot before. He was a big star then left and for a window of time was the top mma fighter in the world and the biggest ppv draw in fighting. Now he's back. There is no reason he couldn't continue in the role he's in for years to come. He's by far and away the most over guy on the roster. Brock jobbing to DB isn't going to transfer over any of that aura. He's a guaranteed draw and a walking 4 star plus match. Why job him out to guys who can't fill thatrole? I get that he jobbed to hhh and cena already but IMO that was disgraceful.
ReplyDeleteWhy can't Brock this schedule for the next five years? He could be selling ppvs for Vince long after some of these other guys are gone.
ReplyDeleteIf this heel in particular starts jobbing he becomes kind of irrelevant.
ReplyDeleteOrton, Shield (we're feuding with the Usos before this), Rhodes, Big Show, Bryan. And that's just three weeks in. Ziggler/Ambrose has the makings of a solid, solid feud. Not to mention getting HHH/Stephanie away from the face roles that had grown stagnant.
ReplyDeleteIf you think the only thing this accomplishes is getting HHH 2 hours of screen time every week, you don't understand how things work. Rock, God bless him, didn't get anyone over. For all the HHH hate, his angle is making this must-see TV and making lots of guys lots of money.
Lost in all the HHH hate is how he's made multiple guys during his career (Orton/Batista). He's doing the same now.
He has already jobbed and remained relevant.
ReplyDeleteI think it's a little different with Lesnar than with Austin or Rock because A) Lesnar is from a later era and thus is B) Still in his physical prime (not counting his diverticulitis), or at least is much closer to his wrestling prime than either Rock or Austin and C) His gimmick is that he's an unbeatable monster. Assuming WWE plans to keep using Lesnar in this manner for the next couple of years, they need him to win enough to successfully book him as an unbeatable monster.
ReplyDeleteI 100% agree with you on the part-timer vs. part-timer matches being worthless and have absolutely no desire to see Taker/Lesnar at Mania.
Hhh didn't make Orton. He is undercut him at every point in 2004 (going over him and forcing the face turn) and did it again in 2009 when Orton was over as monster heel, he just became fodder for face hhh.
ReplyDeleteThis has basically been a lateral move for shield.
Now the angle is certainly getting Bryan over as a tippy top guy but we'll have to see who else it helps.
Way to completely neglect the fact HHH put him in Evolution which is how he got over to begin with. Not to mention whatever issues Orton had the past few years were his own doing.
ReplyDeleteHe knows how to make stars, you just have issues with the ones he didn't (RVD, Goldberg, Booker, etc).
Not sure why I'm arguing this, the perception on here will always be what it is.
So let me get this straight. Hhh puts Orton in his stable as his lackey, then Orton goes over Benoit for the belt. Hhh out smarts orton and beats him down forcing orton into an ill suited face turn that came about due to that beatdown. Then Orton jobs the belt to hhh and hhh moves on to Batista. In what world is that "making"Orton?
ReplyDeleteMore likely he massacres Orton at the PPV, massacres HHH, the Shield and it will be used to get a no-decision crap thing to keep the belt on Orton.
ReplyDeleteFirst off, I totally agree that Brock is in this bizarre and rare position, in that he has all this mainstream and legit tough guy credibility and is a top level worker when it comes to pro wrestling.
ReplyDeleteAnd I definitely don't think they need to job him out and kiss him goodbye. BUT I think there needs to be a balance where they work to keep him over, yet also use him to elevate everyday guys who can draw money for them year-round. And by that i mean pick 2-3 guys— let's say Punk, Bryan, and Sheamus— and plan how Brock could put them over in the next 2 years while also doing what it takes to keep Brock strong.
"Brock jobbing to DB isn't going to transfer over any of that aura." I mean, that's just saying that wins and losses don't matter, which isn't true. If Bryan beats Lesnar, then fans look at Bryan as a bigger star and Bryan has something to hang his hat on for years to come. No, it doesn't mean that Bryan immediately becomes a 300lb former UFC champion. But a win over Lesnar absolutely would make Bryan a bigger deal.
"He's by far and away the most over guy on the roster." I also disagree with this pretty hardcore. Yes, Lesnar is ridiculously over everytime he comes back— but that's also because of how protected of a spot he's in. Everytime he comes in it's treated as a HUGE DEAL. If Lesnar had to appear on TV twice a week and wrestle every PPV like Bryan, Punk, Cena etc would he still be as over? Again, Brock is fucking awesome in the ring, and projects ridiculous star power and all that. But his overness is not just a product of his skills, but also of how he's positioned. And to me, I think they need to take advantage of his situation in ways that are not just about "keeping Brock over" but also elevating others.
Brock should be fed the expendable veterans (Big Show, Kane, Henry) that he can squash/injure in between feuds in which he puts over the Bryans/Punks/Sheamuses of the world. Basically, Brock never should have lost a match to HHH. (But at least in the end Brock went over in that feud.)
I'd puke in my cereal if Bryan had to wrestle Triple H at WrestleMania. Though I'm still a closet mark and hope beyond hope that we have Bryan/CM Punk for the WWE Title at Mania, so I'm not the one to ask.
ReplyDeleteAgreed, maybe Brock does stick around for years to come. I'd love to see that— he's still fucking awesome in the ring and a great character.
ReplyDeleteThat said, I don't think feeding him the everyday roster will be a smart use of him. There needs to be a balance between keeping Brock strong and not making the full-timers look like a minor league baseball team.
What I'm saying is, Brock losing to Rock or Taker is fucking dumb as shit. Brock should be kept strong at the expense of the veterans, and when he DOES lose it should be to the everyday stars.
* Slow Clap *
ReplyDeleteBetter solution.....
ReplyDeleteBryan wins at NOC, with Kane showing up to fucking chockslam HHH and Steph while Ziggler, Rhodes, Big Show keeping Shield from interfering.
Bryan wins, the board of directors slap down HHH and Steph, HHH blames Orton for fucking up but gives him a second chance at HIAC, which Bryan wins.
Punk ends his farce feud with Heyman/Axel at NOC and starts feuding with HHH. HHH loses to Punk at the end of NOC as Punk confronts HHH for his bullshit. Rhodes/Ziggler/Big Show lose to Shield though as Dean Ambrose starts making noise that HE should be HHH's go-to guy not Orton. Kane fights the Wyatts to continue that feud.
HHH/Shield/Orton vs Punk/Bryan/Rhodes/Ziggler/Big Show at Survivor Series to finish off the feud. HHH's team loses when John Cena shows up to stop Steph from screwing over Bryan's team Montreal style.
The next night, Orton gets the shit kicked out of him by HHH for failing him and Ambrose becomes Triple H's new protege. Cena shows up and we get the slow burn for his return as he puts his contract on the line that Bryan can beat Ambrose at the December PPV, which he does. HHH starts going insane and resigns from his position as COO when the Board of Directors gives him an ultimatum to either become a full-time wrestler or become a suit.
Punk vs Bryan at the Royal Rumble and Punk wins the belt. This brings Heyman back along with Brock Lesner, who wins the Royal Rumble. Orton comes back, still evil, as he starts tormenting Bryan anew, leading to Bryan/Orton at WM in a non-title match. Meanwhile Cena continues feuding with HHH and HHH fights dirty by trying to turn Zack Ryder to the dark side and Cena fighting for Ryder's soul. This leads to a Feb. match between Kane and Cena vs Ambrose and HHH while The Shield finally explodes as the Seth Rollins and Roman Reigns turn on Ambrose after they get tired of Ambrose perverting their mission for justice and treating them like his flunkies (which leds to them finally hashing out the continuity: Reigns and Rollins were in it for righting wrongs and pursuing justice while Ambrose was a conniving shit who manipulated the other two in wrecking havok on the WWE in the "name of justice" before convincing them that the best way to "pursue justice" was to sell out and become thugs for the men they were supposed to be beating up).
Wrestlemania will have Cena vs HHH as the main event, Bryan vs Orton in an "I Quit" match, Brock vs Punk in an Iron Man match, and the members of The Shield in a three way match that will be their coming out party.
(Rhodes, Big Show, and Ziggler meanwhile can slide into the Kane/Wyatt Family feud as far as a four-way match)
I just don't know what anyone has to gain by bringing in a past-his-prime figure from someone not even involved in wrestling. It's not like the current WWE fanbase has a familiarity with a guy like Couture at this point.
ReplyDeleteFor what it's worth, Orton turning face was rushed and pretty much doomed him. They ironically DID learn their lesson though with Batista, which is why the Batista face turn is well loved and why it is clearly set up as an ultra-rare example of HHH doing the right thing....
ReplyDeleteHave to agree on Orton - Trips has made Orton look bad basically throughout Orton's entire career.
ReplyDeleteWhether that was necessarily Trips' real-world doing, or someone somewhere thought it was the best way to get Orton over, I don't know, but Orton has NEVER come out looking good after being programmed with Trips.
No way Steph is taking a chokeslam
ReplyDeleteWell what draws more money? A freakish special attraction guaranteed to make a big angle any time you roll him out or a day to day superstar?I jhonesty don't know. But I think you make a db or ziggler a top top guy without jobbing Brock. I mean how much did Andre job in the 80's. With taker basically retired it seems like they need a scary unstoppable monster guy and Brock obviously fits that. So is it more beneficial to keep that monster or to use him to build a new guy who won't have that exact presence and probably could get over by beating other guys (like cena/Orton/and punk owes db a job too).
ReplyDeleteOrton started off in Evolution feuding with Edge for the IC title. By the time Evolution's run ended, Orton was feuding over the world title.
ReplyDeleteThere are different ways to elevate people. Orton came out of Evolution as a main-eventer, and he wasn't even close to that at the start.
Worry isn't the right word. More like "makes me sad b/c this seems like it could totally happen."
ReplyDeleteI really really hope they end up with Punk-Bryan at Mania too, and I think it's definitely a possibility.
ReplyDeleteI'd love to see them blow off Punk/Lesnar (let's say Punk wins a rematch against Lesnar at teh Nov or Dec PPV) and Bryan/Corporation (Bryan wins title from Orton, defends it against HHH at teh Rumble) and then Punk wins the Rumble to set up Punks vs Bryan for the title.
Then Mania you could also have Cena/Taker (as others have said, the scene is set for Cena to just come back in January and straight up challenge Taker), plus HHH & Orton could have a Mania tag match against say Ziggler and Rock. The star power of Rock against HHH renewing the rivalry is pretty intriguing, PLUS it'd get Ziggler over huge.
As for Brock, I personally would love to see a Sheamus vs Brock brawl. Like I said, have Punk win a blow-off against Brock, then Brock is pissed, he challenges the toughest guy in WWE to try to step to him, Sheamus does, and bam you've got a match.
Big Show 50 Shades of Grey :-S
ReplyDeleteConsidering where he was before Evolution, yes, that is making Orton. He faced Undertaker at WM that year and has been near the top for almost a decade now. Evolution made his career.
ReplyDeleteI love it. Triple H and John Cena feuding over Zack Ryder's soul.
ReplyDeleteWhat is this I don't even
ReplyDeleteBrock/Punk in the cell, and Punk gets Heyman alone in there? I mean, it's similar to what happened at SS(Punk briefly getting heyman), but that's all my non-fantasy booking ass can think up.
ReplyDeleteIt's a step backwards. Heyman pulling the Brock card already happened. It'd be treading water right now. The Brock/Punk chapter is over with.
ReplyDeletePunk is already one of the most over guys on the roster, even with the loss to Lesnar. Yes, another Punk/Lesnar match would probably be awesome - and if they think it will help sell tickets and PPV buys then it might be worth doing.
ReplyDeleteHogan/Heenan isn't really the same. Heenan and Hogan kayfabe hated each other, and Hogan fought lots of guys managed by Heenan. But Heenan was never the focal point of the feud - he was an annoying instigator, but the actual feud was with Andre or Orndorff or Studd or Flair or whomever.
But in terms of getting people over - Punk is already as over as he's going to be. Lesnar is already over as a monster heel. There's really nothing to gain by having Punk beat Lesnar. As cultstatus said - enough with the 50/50 booking crap. They fought once, had an epic match. Time to move on.
I was too young at the time but did people used to bitch about Andre going over guys, who worked a more regular schedule, on the internet in the 70's and 80's?
ReplyDeleteI like how it gets ambrose over. Why fuck around, just push that guy to the top heel spot
ReplyDeleteSure Taker is basically retired, but Taker actually wrestled as many matches last year (Vs Punk at Mania, Six-man on Raw, and vs Ambrose on Smackdown) as Lesnar did last year. Lesnar isn't a replacement for Taker as WWE's monster attraction, because Lesnar and Taker are pretty much on the same schedule right NOW.
ReplyDeleteAs for your question above about what draws more money, I'm gonna fall on the side of "day to day superstar" over guy who wrestles 3x a year. I mean, the most money WWE ever made was on the backs of giant stars who wrestled year round (Hogan, Austin, Rock) and not part-timers. Not to say that a win over Lesnar turns Punk or Bryan into 1999 Austin, but the goal of WWE should always be to bust their asses creating that everyday megastar.
And as for Lesnar's drawing power so far, it's pretty debatable. At this point he pretty much has zero influence on ratings— WWE gets their bumps during Rumble-Mania season, and the rest of teh year Lesnar appearances never seem to spike anything. UFC fans don't switch on Raw just because Lesnar is gonna be there (either because they aren't aware, or they are aware but don't care.) As for PPV, well Lesnar sure as hell isn't The Rock. I mean, the one PPV for Rock that some look at as a "failure" (Survivor Series 2011) had as much of a bump from the year before as any of the bumps Lesnar created on the PPVs he headlined. And as we saw with buyrates for Extreme Rules 2013 (Lesnar/HHH 3) vs ER 2012 (Lesnar/cena) the interest in Lesnar has waned over the year, not increased. Plus you had Wrestlemania 28 (no Lesnar) outdrawing Mania 29 (Lesnar) by 200,000 buys. And yes, Mania 28 was a better card and Rock/Cena 1 was hotter than Rock/Cena 2, but the fact that adding Lesnar didn't create any new buys is somewhat telling— Lesnar himself isn't some kind of insane untouchable draw in wrestling. He's awesome, and he definitely adds some amount of interest to the product that isn't there without him, but he absolutely isn't causing some kind of huge increase in business to the point where they should be sacrificing everyday stars to keep him over.
So yeah, to me having Bryan or Punk or Sheamus or Ziggler or whoever get over as a draw year-round is potentially worth more than Brock's 3 matches per year. And again, I'm NOT saying to job out Brock and cut him loose. All I'm saying is they need to use him strategically, and that includes putting some guys over him. Brock absolutely shouldn't be beating guys like Punk just to set him up to lose to the fucking Undertaker. It needs to be the other way around.
And now theres people in this thread saying hhh made Orton in2004. Thats so stupid I don't know where to start. Hhh kicked orton out of evolution and that was ortons face turn. Then he jobbed to hhh. If he makes Orton, hhh either gets kicked out of evolution allowing Orton to stay heel (he was not ready to be a face) or the same thing happens and hhh at least jobs to Orton. In what actually happened hhh had his cake and ate it too.
ReplyDeleteThat speaks to whatever talent orton has. Hhh undercut any momentum orton had in 2004, and did it again in 2009.
ReplyDeleteNot to be pedantic but it's Brock, not Bork.
ReplyDeletehttp://i.imgur.com/dhMeAzK.gif
ReplyDeleteIf he did he would have been banned, then given a comment saying "You're Gone!" so everyone knows who banned him.
ReplyDeleteYou're either missing or deliberately ignoring the point. Before joining Evolution, the highlight of Orton's career were the RNN updates. Nobody is claiming that the feud with HHH 'made' Orton. We're claiming that being in Evolution with HHH is what 'made' Orton.
ReplyDeleteSo you're suggesting whatever association Orton has had with HHH throughout his career has hurt him, rather than benefited him?
ReplyDeleteThis is RAW live thread stupid.
Smh...
ReplyDeleteAlright, this thread is HUUUUGE already, but here's what I would like to see from the HHH-Daniel Bryan feud:
ReplyDeleteRandy goes over at Night of Champions, likely through some screwing by HHH, The Shield, whoever. D-Bry demands a one-on-one match with Orton in the Cell. OK, you get the match, HHH says, BUT on one condition: You lose your right to challenge for the title again. Bryan agrees. He loses, because Big Show punches him in the face.
This sets up a Bryan-Show program from Survivor Series and TLC, while Randy moves on to someone else. He starts to get too big for his britches, though, taking credit for everything, which eventually starts to annoy HHH. So Hunter announces Randy's opponent for Royal Rumble: Brock Lesnar, his new "Face of the Company."
Brock destroys Orton at the Rumble and the next night on Raw, Lesnar and Heyman turn on HHH, revealing that they were working with someone who knows what's best for THIS BUSINESS. Cue "No Chance" as Vince McMahon comes out.
Meanwhile, Bryan wins the Rumble. He can choose whichever champ he wants to fight at Wrestlemania. HHH has seen the error of his ways, says he's lifted the ban on Bryan getting a WWE Title shot. Bryan, with HHH in his corner, faces Brock in the main event of Wrestlemania. Obviously, Bryan wins. At the end of the night, Bryan and Punk (who, in my mind, just won the WHC) stand and celebrate with both titles at the end of the night.
Eh you can't build all this heat up on HHH only to have him turn face a few months later.
ReplyDeleteLesnar beating the living crap out of HHH doesn't help that?
ReplyDeleteMaybe Show is bipolar or something.
ReplyDeleteWhy am I now picturing the Big Show punching the heel/face barrier like Superboy Prime?
ReplyDeleteI want Brock to enter the "Rumble", clear the ring, and then have Sheamus come out and eliminate him. Instant feud.
ReplyDeleteWhile I agree that Ziggler standing there week after week doing nothing isn't getting him over at the moment, when he DOES do something a few weeks from now, it will be big. The audience is hip to the booking, and will respond accordingly.
ReplyDeleteIf they can stretch to Survivor Series, they should set up 4 v 4, Punk/DB/Ziggler/Cody vs HHH/Orton/Reigns/Rollins....HHH's team goes over(Ambrose or whoever cheats, numbers again get to DB), giving him 3 straight big ones over Bryan....They take all the world's Christmas money and December's PPV is War Games........Bryan finally goes over Orton, HHH kicks Orton out the next night, instead of taking the belt, holds it up, Rumble is Bryan vs HHH on undercard, DB wins, HHH's last bit of punishment is putting Bryan in at 1...
ReplyDeleteSo you have Bryan at 1 and the title on the line.....now all the legends comedy spots have meaning as a bunch of guys come back for one last shot at the title. DDP, Jake if healthy, throw a bone to Flair, if you can get Austin for Wrestlemania, see if he wants to do something (not necessarily in, but maybe costs Punk).....Bryan's alive til 30......Brock......Bryan, exhausted from beating HHH earlier and lasting til last, goes down to the Beast. Wrestlemania of HHH backing Brock vs DB, Punk vs Austin, Cena vs Taker
50 Shades of Show.
ReplyDeleteIve drank alot of Stoli and gobbled an adderall (fuck you 18 hour ER shifts) and after contemplating this, fully endorse it.
ReplyDeleteHowever, this got me thinking that I REALLY want to see another Cena/Brock match on a big stage. This Then got me thinking that HOLY FUCK MOTHERFUCKING GOD DAMN CUNT BITCH SHIT did they fuck up that return Brock match. Ya, I know it's been beaten to death but if they ever want to go back to this shot themselves in the foot by rushing potentially the biggest money feud they had.
I'm pretty sure we are headed for a Heyman/HHH alliance.
ReplyDeleteNah. HHH is awesome as a heel at the moment. Why mess with that?
ReplyDeleteEh. I'm open to making Vince uncomfortable with what HHH is doing and turn to Bryan to end the reign of terror at Wrestlemania.
ReplyDeleteI can see it potentially leading to a 3v3 match with HHH/Orton/Lesnar challenging Bryan, if his team loses they're all fired, if they win then Bryan's granted a title shot. So with no reward and everything to lose Bryan will never find partners turning it into 3v1. Enter Punk who will fight against the machine no matter the odds and a returning Kane who has been forced to watch his buddy be tormented for months while recovering. That's just where I'd like to see it go as a story point between now and WMXXX
ReplyDeleteNo, feel free to offend.
ReplyDeleteThis thread should be renamed; "The Releasing Of Menstrual Fluids".
ReplyDeleteY'all make me SICK! /Austin
According to Meltzer, the ultimate plan is for Vince to turn face sometime before Wrestlemania and have a power struggle storyline against Steph and HHH.
ReplyDeleteYeah, that's what I was playing off of with my original thought, switching things up with Vince as the big bad and eliminating Austin, because it doesn't seem realistic or like a good idea.
ReplyDeleteBut we all know that Mania is half a year away and plans will probably change 200 times between now and then.
If you do Lesnar-Punk II for the WWE Title, why not work the World Title into a HHH-Bryan feud? The belt isn't doing anything for the ADRs and Zigglers of the world and there is plenty of historical precedence for HHH to retake "his" belt. Hell, they invented the thing as his vanity belt, why not move back to that? Hunter can shit on the roster and say that only HE can bring the shine back to that title. Turn it into a vanity belt he never defends, only for Bryan to challenge him (after winning the Rumble or an Elimination Chamber) for it. Then you can build to a post Wrestlemania unification match between Punk and Bryan?
ReplyDeleteI would be perfectly fine if Vince and his color blind wardrobe never appeared on WWE Television again.
ReplyDeleteBut hey, I guess it's what Bonnie Hammer wants.