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Kayfabe Commentaries Timeline Series: 2000 WCW as told by Vince Russo

This interview was released on August 27th of this year. It is a two-disc set that clocks in at just over two-and-a-half hours long.





JANUARY


On January 3rd, Nitro goes back to two hours. Russo is asked about that and he said the decision was made before he got to WCW. He also adds that three hours was difficult even back then, when wrestling was more popular, stating how it is ridiculous today for RAW to be three hours long. When asked if this was a financial decision, Russo said he was concentrating on the product rather than the finances.


Up next is Bret Hart suffering a concussion from Bill Goldberg then working a hardcore match with Terry Funk on the January 6th edition of Thunder. Russo says that thirteen years is a long time to go back and remember stuff (a phrase that he repeats throughout this interview) and said that Bret never came up to him at that time and told him about a concussion nor did anyone else for that matter. He adds that had he known about that, he would have never booked him in a match.


Russo is then asked if he booked Tito Santana, George “The Anima” Steele, and Jimmy Snuka to face Jeff Jarrett on the January 10th edition of Nitro due to his fondness of those guys when he watched wrestling growing up. Russo said that was the reason and said that those guys could still draw a rating in 2000 then talks about how back when those guys were in their prime, wrestling was based on personalities. Russo then switches things up and adds how when he and Ed Ferrara first arrived, they could feel the bullseye on their backs. He adds that talent and management disliked him and he knew that it would turn out bad for him in WCW but he was still trying to do his job. He then goes on to state how at the upcoming Souled Out PPV, he was told at the last minute that Bret had a concussion then recalls how Jarrett’s late wife, Jill, called him behind Jeff’s back to tell him that Jeff suffered a concussion from when Snuka gave him a splash from the top of the cage. Russo puts over Jeff for keeping himself in great condition and how he could still go in the ring for an hour today and not miss a beat.


Now, Russo is asked about the “Evening Gown” match were Madusa defeated Oklahoma for the Cruiserweight Title. Sean jokes if it was always Ferrara’s dream to wrestle in a dress. Russo then uses this as an opportunity to talk about how there are fewer and fewer characters in wrestling today and goes off on a tangent about how everyone has lost the art of being a character and how everyone thinks that they are a wrestler, pointing out that it is all fake and they are just performers. Sean asks him if the internet and dirt sheets play a part with guys being obsessed over workrate in matches. Russo then promises us that this is his last interview and says how his kids would go up to him and ask why he was not telling the truth and he said that he never believed in burying anyone or putting people down in order to build yourself up. He then adds how after working in TNA the last five years, he dealt with young guys in TNA who are marks for themselves to the point that he wanted to “vomit in a bag.” Russo goes on another tangent about guys only caring about star ratings in their matches and getting wrapped up in their moves that their “fake match” would not have any psychology and adds that Chief Jay Strongbow never did any highspots and how **** matches never draw any ratings and marks for the business who give matches * star ratings do not appreciate what the average fan thinks. Russo then buries Generation Me for thinking they know everything and how they would never listen to anyone, including Bully Ray, who was trying to teach them. Sean then ask isn’t it the fault of those who hire these guys and Russo says that there are guys still in TNA who should have been fired five years ago because they suck and are the reason that no one watches the product. He says that Dixie Carter doesn’t get the business and runs it by what she reads from the dirt sheets, instead of listening to him, Bruce Prichard, or even Hulk Hogan. He then gets back to the Madusa/Oklahoma match and says that Ferrara was an entertaining character and that Madusa could take half of the TNA roster today in a shoot, especially guys who like **** matches such as Christopher Daniels. Russo has a real hard-on for Daniels and that is shown throughout this shoot. Russo also mentions how Ferrara used to do the Oklahoma character to entertain Vince McMahon, putting over Jim Ross as the greatest announcer of all-time. He claims that there was no malice towards JR with the character, although states that he would never do that today and has talked with JR since and apologized.


On January 14th, Russo was demoted and part of a booking team with Kevin Sullivan and Kevin Nash. According to Russo, he contacted is lawyer that same day and asked him to do whatever it took in order for him to be released from his contract. He said that everyone was out to get him, noting the veterans hated him for using the undercard talent and guys like JJ Dillon and Kevin Sullivan would constantly talk behind his back. That day, he was supposed to go meet with Ric Flair but was instead met by Bill Busch, who apparently looked white as a ghost and told Russo that they were changing direction and he will now be part of a committee. Russo adds how he was telling his lawyer to get out of his contract earlier that day and Busch was breaching contract with this decision, which shocked him, so he told him he did not have any interest in a committee and told Busch to call Brad Siegel and figure out the money part then left the building. Russo then said he yelled “free at last” in the parking lot. Sean asks Russo to describe Busch and Russo calls him a nice guy and would be friends with him outside of the office but was in way over his head when it came to wrestling, comparing him to Dixie Carter.


The Souled Out PPV is discussed next. Russo confirms that he had a plan for Tank Abbott to win the Heavyweight Championship in a battle royale due to Bret having a concussion. He said that he was going to have Sid be the first entrant and last until the end and Abbott would finish him off with a punch. Russo claims that Abbott was on fire in the UFC at that point. Russo then goes on to stress that you need unpredictability and goes back to the “Attitude Era” where you had to watch each week and says that people would have tuned in the following Monday on Nitro to see what would happen with Tank. Russo then goes off topic and adds how wrestling has been shit for the past five years due to being predictable then tells us to look at the ratings. He says that people today do not need to watch each week as all the shows are the same. Sean asks if people were on board with Tank winning the belt. He said that Busch asked him why put the title on Tank and Russo replied by stating why couldn’t he before claiming that either Dillon or Sullivan went to Busch and complained about his decision. When asked if Tank was a wrestling fan, Russo said he was unsure but mentioned that Tank was a character and willing to do anything and was not a mark for himself like Christopher Daniels.


Back to the PPV, Russo is asked about Benoit winning the belt then quitting the company along with Perry Saturn, Dean Malenko, and Eddie Guerrero. Russo was glad for them. When asked about Mike Graham, Russo said that he would go behind his back a lot but was okay on the surface.


Sid wins the Heavyweight Title on the January 26th edition of Thunder. Russo is asked why Sid couldn’t sustain ratings and Russo thinks it was political as when Sid had a problem with things, he would get really upset. Russo puts over Sid as being his favorite person to work with in pre-tapes and had intensity through the roof.


Ric Flair returns to TV on January 31st calling out Terry Funk. Ric was last seen getting abandoned in the desert by the Filthy Animals. Russo said that this story pisses him off. He said while watching WCW when working for the WWF, he was pissed off in the way that they were treating two of their legends, Hulk Hogan and Ric Flair, stating they were coming across as ninety-year old guys who couldn’t move. Russo says that when he came to WCW, his plan was to put them on the shelf for three months and bring them back and put them in the right spot. Russo claims that he was trying to protect both guys but due to their giant egos and inability to understand what he was trying to do, they wanted him gone. Russo even confirms that Flair had no problem with the desert angle when approached and Russo adds how he even got the Filthy Animals over in the process.



FEBRUARY


On the February 7th edition of Nitro, Scott Steiner cuts a shoot promo on Ric Flair. Russo confirms that there was legitimate heat between the two and thought if the ywere professional enough, they could parlay that into a great angle but their egos could not make it work out. Russo said he was not there when Steiner went off script but guarantees that Steiner would have killed anyone who went out there and tried to stop him.


Up next is the racial discrimination lawsuit filed by Sonny Onoo, Bobby Walker, and Harrison Norris. Russo calls it a joke and that they only wanted money. He said he never had a single conversation with Onoo in his life but after watching Ernest Miller and him on TV, he went to Miller and asked why he needed a manger since he was great on the mic. He then adds how Mexican wrestlers are tough to get over in the U.S. as they do not speak the language and wear masks and adds how he is racist when he put the tag-title son Rey Mysterio & Konnan on his very first episode of Nitro.


Russo confirms that Goldberg wanted to kill HHH after he made comments about him being a “primadonna” on Mancow’s radio show. He also said it was stupid for WCW to not advertise James Brown’s appearance at SuperBrawl.


Next is the decision for Jim Duggan to become the TV Champion after finding the belt in the trash. Russo said that he was always a mark for Duggan and despite being past his prime in the ring, he was still entertaining. Russo adds that he put him on TV and made him money in a role that did not have him constantly put his body on the line while making him relevant again yet hears Duggan bash him a few years ago. He then adds how he always did everything for Flair and he bashed him in his book. He then mentions Christopher Daniels and how he used to tell him that no one cared about matches and he would never listen.



MARCH


On March 22nd, Brad Siegel sent home Kevin Sullivan, Bill Busch quits, and Siegel names Bischoff and Russo the heads of creative and has them become on-air characters. Russo tells us a story of how when he was writing for WWF magazine, before writing for TV, he was watching WCW kick the crap out of the WWF in the ratings and called Bischoff about a job opportunity as a TV writer and was promised a callback but that never happened. After that, he said that he went to Linda and Vince McMahon and said that he had more to offer than just being a magazine writer and if they did not feel the same way, he wanted them to tell him that. He then claims that Vince basically cut a promo on him as Russo said he remained cool and told Vince that he shouldn’t be upset and that he only wants to help his company and one week later, got an opportunity to write for TV then adds how when that happened, we knew what happened to the ratings. He then states he had a hand in Bischoff losing his job in WCW due to the WWF ratings at the time. He said that Siegel initially proposed the deal to Russo as him being the head of creative while Eric was the consultant. Russo points out how in his first three months, the ratings went from 3.0 up to 3.5 and fell back to 3.0 when he was removed, adding that people never came back to the show due to the constant booking changes .



APRIL


Russo is asked about his opinion on the film “Ready to Rumble.” Russo said he brought his thirteen year old son to the premiere and he was embarrassed. Sean follows up by asking if he saw a future WCW Champion in David Arquette and he said never.


On the April 10th edition of Nitro, the “reset” button was pushed and all the champs were stripped of their titles. He thinks that it was Bischoff’s concept but said that he was okay with it but also thought that Bischoff might be setting him up in the event that it failed. Russo adds how Bischoff asked him to become an on-air talent and that he didn’t have a problem with it, claiming that half of the roster at the time sucked, and that his New York accent and big mouth alone could be entertaining. He is asked about other wrestlers being upset and said that they were complaining to his back, never to his face, about him stealing a spot from another wrestler. Russo finishes by saying that they could have taken his spot if they wanted it that badly.


During the Spring Stampede PPV, the New Blood vs. Millionaires Club feuds ends with the New Blood winning all the belts. Russo said that it was important to have them win and knew at the end of the day the Millionaires Club would end up being the faces as the fans would have sympathy for the veterans while the New Blood would become cocky and arrogant over time.


On the April 26th edition of Thunder, David Arquette pinned Eric Bischoff to win the Heavyweight Title in a tag-team match with the stipulation that the person who scored the pin would become the champion. Russo is asked about when Arquette was first brought up as a potential champion and he uses the line about thirteen years being a long time ago and thinks it might have been DDP’ idea to bring him in the company due to his passion for wrestling but not his idea to make the champ. Russo said that wrestlers were pissed at him behind his back to DDP didn’t have a problem with the idea when told and that the agent told Arquette he would be winning the match, not himself. Russo said it accomplished what he wanted, which was to get viewers to turn in and mentions the publicity from “USA Today” and other media outlets. Russo explains his booking philosophy as whatever he did that week, he had the confidence to top it the following week then goes into all the criticism he received. He said he was surprised to see how many people thought wrestling was real and calls them imbeciles.



MAY


When asked about Randy Savage returning to TV in his last appearance in a battle royale, Russo said that he had plans for him but Savage didn’t get the money he wanted and left. Russo said that he wanted to put Savage in the spotlight again and wanted to put the legends on a pedestal.


At the Slamboree PPV, Jeff Jarrett defeats David Arquette for the Heavyweight Title. Russo said that Arquette was not nervous at all about having a match, stating that he was nuts. He then calls Jarrett one of the best workers in the business and was great at protecting people. Sean asks Russo about his opinion on Chris Kanyon. Russo calls him a great worker who was easily coachable but was always putting others ahead of himself, which was a rare thing in wrestling. Sean then asks Russo about having someone getting tossed off the top of the cage in the same arena that Owen Hart died in and he said that never crossed his mind.


Russo is then asked about how the belt changed hands five times in a two week span. Russo then says how the UFC title changes hands constantly so why couldn’t it happen in wrestling then goes back to the unpredictability factor. Sean interrupts and asks him about the WWF he grew up on and the long title reigns but Russo said that was before the internet and dirt sheets exposing the business so he had to change it as an entertainment business. Sean counters by asking Russo about the fans being able to suspend disbelief again then Russo goes on about the internet and dirt sheets some more.


Booker T switching to GI Bro is discussed and Russo said that Booker told him about the character with great passion so Russo went with that. He then added how when Booker was getting pushed to the next level, he had to go back to being Booker T again.


Goldberg’s return is discussed and Russo mentions how he and Bischoff were never on the same page about him. When asked if Goldberg was the guy to build the company around, Russo said no and that they needed a consistent year of booking to elevate the ratings.



JUNE


On June 5th, SFX Entertainment CEO Roert Sillerman hinted that he was in negotiatons to purchase WCW. Russo is asked about how he and the rest in the company felt around this time. Russo said that everyone knew WCW was going to be sold. He then goes on about how all wrestlers are paranoid and that he was disconnected from the product at this point, noting how he probably would have been glad if a nuclear bomb hit the locker room. Sean asks Russo if he had any confidant in WCW and Russo said he just wanted to be left alone. Russo is then asked if he was reading the dirt sheets at this time and he said that he learned from Vince to never, ever read stuff on the internet because they are just a small percentage of the audience. He then says that he knew to never read the internet again when Dave Meltzer wrote that he would never watch wrestling again after the Rock’s “This is Your Life” segment on RAW, which he said was the highest rated segment in wrestling history. Sean then asks if Bryan Alvarez ever reached out to him about his “Death of WCW” book and he said no.


Russo is now asked about Bischoff defeating Terry Funk for the Hardcore Title on Nitro. He claims that Bischoff did not want to do the match but Russo said that it was a ratings draw and believes people would tune in for that match if it took place tomorrow before going on about the paranoia within the wrestling world.


On the June 12th edition of Nitro, Ric Flair lost a handicapped match to David Flair and Vince Russo and as a result, had to retire and get his head shaved. Russo said that he never would have Flair get his head shaved and even tried to talk Flair out of doing it but he insisted that it happen. Again, Russo goes on about paranoia in wrestling and how Flair blamed Russo for what happened. Russo is then asked about wrestling Flair and he said that the chops killed but his main concern was not to make Flair look bad, stating he would have rather died than let that happen. Russo says he got a concussion in that match after forgetting to tuck in his chin during a Russian leg sweep. He said the next morning he woke up and could not see straight and had to crawl upstairs then drove to the show the next day and doesn’t remember how he got through the day. He said after that he experienced terrible vertigo and would see a head specialist, which he didn’t mind as it gave him an excuse to miss work.


Russo says at this time, he was working on the shows but not attending and Bischoff would piss him off by criticizing the shows after they aired but not saying anything negative beforehand. He said that he wanted to bring some UFC-type flavor to WCW and wanted to create something for Scott Steiner. After another disagreement, Siegel told Bischoff and him to fly out to California for a meeting. Russo claims that he told Siegel to let Bischoff write the show and that he no longer cared. After this, Siegel has them work together at Bash at the Beach. Russo said that he was still suffering from his concussion yet put himself in the ring because he had too much pride. He then says a few of the guys that he refused to name took shots at his head knowing that he had the concussion.



JULY


Russo goes into the Bash at the Beach and how everything went down. Before the show, Russo said that he was at a creative meeting between 8-20 guys and when asked who should be the champion, they unanimously selected Booker T. Russo then said Hogan wanted to win the belt but in the back of his mind he was thinking whatever happened, Hogan wasn’t leaving with the belt. Russo said that he came up with a script that had did not have Hogan winning the belt and gave it to Johnny Ace to present to Hogan. Ace came back and said Hogan hated it so Russo changed the script and it had Hogan taking out everyone and looking strong but still not winning the belt. Ace called Russo back and said that he liked the idea. A few hours before the match, Bischoff came up to Russo and told him that Hogan wasn’t going to do the match. Russo then went to Hogan and was that if this was real, he would be walking out as the champion. Russo said in the back of mind he was having Booker walking out with the belt. Russo then said if it was real, the way it would work out would be Hogan telling him that he is not jobbing and Russo telling Jarrett that Hogan refused to job for him and he would be pissed and would then tell Jarrett to lay down for Hogan and make it look bad. Russo claims that Hogan liked the idea. Russo then said that Hogan and Bischoff would leave and rip apart Russo in a promo. Russo points out to Hogan that they would have to leave because Russo would have to cut a scathing promo on Hogan and if he was in the building, he would come out and kick Russo’s ass, then Russo would book match between Booker and Hogan for the title. He said that Hogan liked that and added that he would have a title and Booker another title. Russo said that he appeased Hogan by saying they will do something with two titles down the line. Hogan agreed to the whole idea. Russo then tells Jarrett that Hogan is refusing to do the job for him and claims that Jarrett was irate but wasn’t told that it was a work. The match happens, Hogan and Bischoff leaves, Russo said he was playing this up and saw Jimmy Hart and started shooting as Hart had no idea it was a work. Booker wins the belt afterwards and after the match, Russo said he was reading the internet comments and they all bought the angle. Russo said his mistake was telling Hogan they would discuss the belt situation later and he would call him tomorrow but he did not call him and Hogan was at home reading the comments about how Russo got one-up on him. Siegel called Russo and asked what happen. Russo claims that Siegel told him to not call Hogan because they could not afford to have him on the show. Russo said he still should have called Hogan back because he gave him his word and after that was the Defamation of Character lawsuit. Russo said that he learned later on that Hogan’s lawyer sent in a fax late on Friday, after everyone in the office went home, stating that he did not agree to the original plans of the match and he had creative control at the time. He then added that he told Jarrett about the angle the next day but never told Jimmy Hart.  



AUGUST


When asked about the Judy Bagwell on a Pole match at the New Blood Rising PPV, Russo said that everything sounds funny on a pole and claims that a “mild-mannered” fan at home would tune in for a Viagra on a Pole match. Sean asks about the relationship between Judy and Buff and Russo thought Buff liked having her around and said Judy was up for anything


Sean asks about Team Canada forming and Lance Storm holding three belts. Russo can’t believe that years later, after giving him the biggest push of his career, Storm continues to bash him. He also mentions why bash him behind a computer years later but not tell him in person while it happened.



SEPTEMBER


On the September 4th edition of Nitro, the Insane Clown Posse got a title shot. Russo said that the ICP would be at TV all day then suddenly disappear at 6pm. Russo said he didn’t care that they couldn’t work because they were entertaining.


Russo is then asked about the marriage between David Flair and Stacy Keibler with a returning Ric Flair that drew a 4.1 rating. Russo then goes after Christopher Daniels and Generation Me who like **** matches but nothing draws a bigger rating than a wedding. He even said that even TNA drew a good rating with the wedding between Jeff and Karen. Sean follows up by asking why the DNA angle between Buff and David Flair was dropped without conclusion and Russo said that he wasn’t around and that bookers cannot write and when they do not know what to do they end up bailing. He then gloats about the Attitude Era and how everyone thinks that they can master the art of writing and performing but in reality, they cannot.


Sean brings up Jim Duggan turning on the USA and joining Team Canada and follows up by asking Russo if there are certain wrestlers that are impossible to turn heel. Russo said no and that it is all in the writing but adds if the wrestler does not want to turn heel, it will fail. Russo then admits fault and says that he takes all the blame for the failure of Goldberg’s heel turn.



On the September 25th edition of Nitro, Russo wins the World Title from Booker T. Sean then asks Russo to step outside of himself and say why he should have been the champ. Russo said that he guaranteed it would do a good rating and kept the unpredictability factor going strong. He then said that he believed people would tune in to see what would happen next week. Sean then asks about his concussion and asks why he took the risk being in the ring. Russo said that he cared too much, even though it was a sinking ship. He then goes on to say how winning as a fluke would make the viewer at home tune in and how he would say the next show how he was quitting as he had nothing to prove then goes on to blame the internet for saying that he put the belt on himself. He also said he wore the helmet as a legitimate form of protection and not as a gimmick.



OCTOBER


He is asked about the incident in Australia regarding Juventud Guerrera. Russo was not there, as he decided to go to a San Francisco Giants playoff game with Jeremy Borash, but said that Juvy was over-the-top and funny then adds how making Juvy a commentator was one of the greatest things that he has ever done and cannot understand how someone could not be entertained by that.


On October 23rd, Terry Taylor and Johnny Ace take over the TV booking. Russo said that he was seeing a head specialist that performed a battery of tests and at that point his biggest concern was his paycheck. Russo then notes how he signed a two-year deal with WCW and only worked for nine months and asks how could he have done all the damage himself in that time. He added that he signed the two-year deal at the time with the belief that he would be finished with wrestling at the end of the contract. The only reason he came back was due to the fact that Jarrett was starting his own promotion.


Sean asks Russo if he had any involvement with the “WCW Backstage Assault” video game. Russo said he did not but when he was writing for WWF magazine, he did the stories for the video games and wrote the trading cards.



NOVEMBER


Russo is asked about the incident on Worldwide during the “Ask WCW” segment where Disco Inferno said his duck would get more over than half the roster, including Sting and Goldberg. Russo puts over Disco for being entertaining, on camera and behind the scenes, and says most in wrestling are too uptight and cannot realize that wrestling is all play-fights and they cannot handle someone like Gilbertti, who knows that it is not real and absurd. Sean brings up the fact that some wrestlers might be clinging to the reality of the business and Russo says that wrestling is a fake world and most guy today have never seen Bruno Sammartino and if they want to make money they should watch his matches on YouTube but if they do not want to make money, they should not watch and concentrate on Meltzer giving you **** matches.


On November 22nd, Scott Hall is arrested for driving the wrong way down a street and having a blood alcohol level that was three times over the legal limit. Sean asks if Hall was showing up to work intoxicated and Russo says that as the night progressed, Hall would get more impaired. Russo is then asked if a guy like him should have the spotlight taken away from him sooner and he said that he was guilty of remembering thegifts that he had and gave him chances.



DECEMBER


Mark Madden is fired on Christmas Eve for leaking info on the sale of WCW and lobbying for the return of Scott Hall. Russo said that he never drank or did drugs then says that he was drunk twice in his fraternity days? Russo goes on to state how he doesn’t know how it feels to be under the influence and is pissed that Bobby Heenan blamed him for his firing, stating that he was drunk. Russo claims that people would come up to him within the company and pointed out to him that he was drunk but Russo said he as the only one who fought for him, stating that he didn’t think he was drunk, and remembered him for his glory days in the WWF. Russo then adds that he wasn’t even around when Heenan was fired. He then says that during a TNA PPV, Heenan came to visit and Russo told Mike Tenay that he wanted to say hello and he ended up speaking with Heenan, who he said was very gracious towards him.


At the end of the year, WCW ended up losing $62 million dollars. Sean asked how could that happen so quickly and Russo said that the suits at Time Warner/AOL did not want wrestling and that those in wrestling cannot understand how others are actually embarrassed by professional wrestling. He then claims that TNT does not have a show today that outdrew Nitro (Mike Johnson from PWInsider.com debunked that by posting the ratings for an episode of “Rizzoli & Isles”).


Sean asks Russo what his goal was when he went to WCW. Russo thought he did all he could in the WWF and they couldn’t go any higher and told Vince McMahon that they had a year to ride this wave of popularity. He said that he is a “challenge guy” and that he saw the younger guys in WCW as having a lot of potential. He then rants about being sick of others accusing Vince McMahon of filtering him and getting all the credit by stating how Vince would take one small thing he came up with and make it better. He said that he was never underpaid in the WWF and recalls a time when he got on the elevator and Vince was there and he told Russo that business was good and handed him an envelope. Russo said that he opened it up and it was a check for five-figures. Russo closes by stating that he helped change the business and that people want to make his legacy as one of a failure.



Final Thoughts: This was certainly some interview. In regards to 2000 WCW, the whole company seemed toxic and it was bound to fail so blaming Russo as the main reason of their downfall is a bit absurd to me. A bad mix of veterans, incompetent management, bad booking decisions, and a company (Time Warner/AOL) that did not want to feature wrestling are all to blame equally. On the subject of Russo, he clearly had an agenda and that was to clear his name of any wrongdoing during his tenure in WCW. He is quick to blame everyone else and constantly contradicted himself throughout the interview. He does this about the internet a lot. He went off topic a lot and that was usually when he was asked about one of his ideas that bombed. When that happened, he would go off on a tangent about needing to be unpredictable and blaming the internet for everything about wrestling. He was obsessed over Meltzer’s star ratings and had a need to bash Christopher Daniels constantly, who now has a highly entertaining character by the way since Russo left TNA, which had very little to do with 2000 WCW. I will say that I agree with Russo about their needing to be more characters in wrestling but some of his ideas are truly awful. And Tank Abbott being the WCW Champion would have probably flopped too. As far as a recommendation, I would recommend this, especially if you haven’t seen any shoots from Russo, but if you have and were sick of him in those, I do not know how much you will enjoy this. Also, I thought Sean Oliver did a tremendous job with the interview. He asked good questions and would even ask follow-up or counter questions when appropriate. I will also add that after one of his several mentions throughout the interview about how this would be his last ever shoot, when asked by Sean if we could consider coming back to do the 1998 WWF Timeline, he said that he would.

Comments

  1. I still like Russo and everything he brings (the good and the bad).

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  2. Good or bad, Russo always kept things interesting in my opinion. Even if they were absurd he definitely had people talking. I do believe he worked hard at giving everyone a character and something to do and I think his constant discussion of "characters" in this shoot somewhat back that up.

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  3. Good recap Brian. As you said, its unfair to scapegoat all of WcWs failures on Russom. Yea, he had his lowpoints but he wasn't the sole reason they failed. Im still convinced Russo is best utilized as a contributor to a creative team as opposed to being is sole voice.

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  4. Russo was a huge part of the team that led the hottest period that wrestling has ever seen, and he absolutely derserves credit for that.
    He also had some terrible ideas, and Tank Abbot as champ is one of them. I definitely like him as the idea man on a team rather than having total control himself.
    I agree with him about guys being marks for themselves though, and if Christopher Daniels is that type of guy then eff him. The total number of people in North America that would tune in for 5 star wrestling matches in and of themselves are roughly the population of regulars on this blog. Everyone else just wants to see a show.

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  5. I agree about Russo deserving more credit than he gets and like him or not, he did get ratings. Also, ***** matches are a smal demographic, like you said, and people do remember the characters themselves a lot than the matches.
    However, Russo did put himself over a lot, especially in the begining of TNA with his 20 minute-long promos, so I dont believe Russo when he said he wasnt trying to get himself over.
    Russo gets a lot of shit and some of it is unnecessary but he also knows how to blame others too.

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  6. Russo was a small part of the problem with WCW. I just think the guy is clueless.

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  7. I love the comment about Dixie Carter only listening to the Internet. Riiiiiiight.

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  8. Yea. People talk about him as if he is the sole reason WcW is now dead.

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  9. "Russo is then asked if he booked Tito Santana, George “The Anima” Steele, and Jimmy Snuka to face Jeff Jarrett on the January 10th edition of Nitro due to his fondness of those guys when he watched wrestling growing up. Russo said that was the reason and said that those guys could still draw a rating in 2000..."


    I'm not sure if I should shake my head at this, especially when WWE was trotting out Moolah and Mae Young every week.

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  10. No, I don't believe that he wasn't trying to get himself over either.
    I think that his hot run in WWF went to his head and he started to think (much as McMahon did) that he had fundamentally figured out how to make wrestling hot.

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  11. MOTHERFUCKING NATHAN JONESSeptember 5, 2013 at 4:27 PM

    I saw this shoot and it was pretty interesting because you start to realize that Russo was never about the wrestling business. He makes very fair points about wrestlers who worry more about the psychology than being story tellers and characters. The thing that I thought was stupid and pretty much immature of him was that he mocks fans and people within the business for taking a fakr fighting act so seriously. You mean I shouldnt take Arquette and your championship win seriously because youre telling a story? His reasoning just sounds mad idiotic

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  12. The WWF run definitely went to his head, you are absolutely right about that. His gloating whenever he talks about that says it all.
    Russo was great at giving everyone on the roster an identity, I will give him that, but the guy honestly thought pole matches were entertaining too and no one gave a fuck about that.

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  13. I actually was trying to say more than just that, I'm having trouble posting from my ancient IE at work.
    Agreed about the pole thing, I never got Russo's facination with poles. No one cares about poles.

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  14. Yeah, my work computer cant even handle the ESPN site so I know how you feel in that regard.

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  15. Russo is truly brilliant, no doubt about it. Some of my favorite stuff in wrestling was WWF 97-99 when he was there. Russo's biggest flaw is that he puts no value in the championships and the fact that fans (even casuals) do occasionally appreciate a 4 star match. I think that is where McMahon kept him in check the most. All that being said I would be extremely curious to see how he would write today's WWE. That could be one hell of a ride.

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  16. That's true. Don't forget Patterson and briscoe too. Russo was WWF's booker at the time for all four of their rises to new generation fame.

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  17. It's interesting actually...when looking at his booking he actually *does* seem to hold a reverence for people he grew up watching. Having the legends get together to take out the NWO, setting up situations for Hogan and Flair to be prominent and treated as legendary performers, Brisco, Patterson, etc. etc. His rationale for having Duggan on TV all the time, for example.

    That said it seems like some of this is a bit revisionist. It's definitely interesting to wonder if what Russo supposedly envisioned as his grand scheme came to pass, how well it would go over.

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  18. Not to veer OT but I feel what happened with Russo and what happened with 24 were fairly similar in that - like you pointed out - things simply became about shock after shock and there was nowhere to go in terms of "topping the last episode".

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  19. You'd get that Cena heel turn. Followed by a face turn a week later. Then he'd "shoot" on Orton. Then he'd turn heel, reveal that he and Orton were in cahoots all along. Then he would revert to his Prototype persona, announce he was cheating on his Bella Twin with the other Bella Twin. And AJ Lee is really his cousin, but they're still sleeping with each other. The feud would then get settled in a Quadruple Reverse Elimination Chamber where Jason Segal became world champ.

    Russo ia still a fucking moron

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  20. The talk about how he was creatively handcuffed or sabotaged gets pretty old after a while. Some fans keep on saying, "I wonder what it would've been like if his long term plan came to fruition."


    Smdh. There was no long term plan with him! He could write one show okay, but he couldn't write a month's worth of shows that made a lick of sense. He is constantly saying how he did unpredictable things each week, wanting to top himself the next week--he clearly had very little foresight on how to make long term ideas work. WCW was an absolute mess while he had control.

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  21. WCW was a mess in 2000 and it's not fair to give him all the blame. But if WCW was a house that was burnig down, his contribution was to pour gasoline on it, causing the house to burn down more quickly and spectacularly.

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  22. I see you want to keep our little conversation going. No doubt WCW was a disaster while he was there. Was Russo exclusively in power during that entire time? No. Russo working with Vince McMahon again would really be a shake up, and I will take Russo over Stephanie McMahon and her group of mongoloid writers any day of the damn week. Believe that. Raw is paint by numbers with some occasionally good stuff / matches. Russo's Raw was appointment television.

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  23. " When asked if Goldberg was the guy to build the company around, Russo said no and that they needed a consistent year of booking to elevate the ratings."

    "Russo points out how in his first three months, the ratings went from 3.0 up to 3.5 and fell back to 3.0 when he was removed"

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  24. This is my favorite match from the Russo WCW 2000 era. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2kyhg_ric-flair-vs-jeff-jarrett-wcw-title_sport

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  25. Your_Favourite_LoserSeptember 5, 2013 at 6:41 PM

    'knew at the end of the day the Millionaires Club would end up being the faces as the fans would have sympathy for the veterans while the New Blood would become cocky and arrogant over time'

    LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL


    how about no


    everyone argued that it should have been the exact opposite, that the new blood were the young hungry guys gettin' screwed by the stubborn past heir prime old guard

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  26. Your_Favourite_LoserSeptember 5, 2013 at 6:47 PM

    i realize that the BatB deal itself was a convoluted mess, but your recap of what russo says doesnt help :(

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  27. Beaver Cleavage, Puke trying to kill Hawk, Owen Hart - Black Supremacist, and Choppy Choppy Your Pee Pee all happened before Russo joined WCW.

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  28. WWF from Wrestlemania 14 until he left didn't work. Right.

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  29. I'll take choppy choppy your pee pee over Michael Cole fake laughing at some lame shit. When was Owen Hart a Black Supremacist, I thought he was simply the Black Hart.

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  30. That wasn't all Russo, and shit got really bad toward the end. Some of the stuff in 1999 is awful

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  31. Vince McMahon was on top of the wrestling world before Russo joined, he was on top (except for a brief period) when Russo was there, he was on top after Russo left.

    Russo, once away from McMahon was a disaster at both WCW and TNA.



    Who do you think was more responsible for WWF's success during that period?

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  32. Russo is awful. I don't want stuff like Goldberg v. Scott Steiner v. Kevin Nash in WWE.

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  33. So everything good from the Attitude Era was Vince McMahon's doing and everything bad was Russo's fault? I find that hard to believe. McMahon had Who and TL Hopper before Russo shook shit up. Also who do you think was pimping Austin and Foley HARD backstage.

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  34. Yea, he came off very bitter. The wrestling industry certainly hasn't been good to him. I'm surprised he's been around for as long as he has been. He's had more failures then successes thru out his career in wrestling. Good for him for being able to make a living with wrestling for so long because his stuff sucks ASS

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  35. Sorry about that. Didnt realize I forgot to edit that paragraph. Its fixed now. I actually had to watch that part twice as even Russo's explanation of everything was too much to comprehend in one viewing.

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  36. Touche, but Russo was very high on Austin when McMahon didn't "get it".

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  37. The best use of Russo and the best use of Heyman are similar. Let them pitch ideas and have control over small segments of your programming but always have veto power over them and don't let them make lasting decisions.


    Russo would be super useful in writing stories and gimmicks for guys who are just changing characters or some of the undercard guys. In a sense he's right. So many guys AREN'T characters. We joke about guys "turning face" by getting their ass kicked and then 2 weeks later they're smiling on the ramp and slapping hands with the fans. That's so stupid, but we've put up with years of it now. Russo's wacky ideas for their new character would be better by default.


    Having said that, this guy talks about guys being marks for themselves but boy does he ever fit that to a T

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  38. Your argument makes no sense.

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  39. His shoot angle stuff that he kept trying in WCW. Watch New Blood Rising. Or don't. It sucks.

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  40. Don't know why you're trying to defend Vince Russo, whose failings speak for themselves. For every Survivor Series 1998, there are about 10 idiotic moments like most things he did in TNA, or WCW. Black Reign, Rellik (DID YOU KNOW IT'S KILLER SPELLED BACKWARDS), bastardation of the X-Division, the hilarious Hall/Waltman/Nash saga of 2010, Abyss getting superpowers from a HOF ring, etc. That's TNA alone. Vince McMahon filtered him in WWE, and even so, he BOOKED OWEN HART TO BE A FUCKING SUPERHERO. Don't know how you can justify any of that.

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  41. Your_Favourite_LoserSeptember 5, 2013 at 7:12 PM

    its weird cause they already did the 'i dont want to job but i will' angle with hogan back at halloween havoc 99, where hogan walked out all pissed, laid down for sting, and then later sting had a title match with goldberg BUT WAIT it wasnt for stings title after all (esp when gberg won he match). but sting was still stripped of the title for attacking the ref with the end result being bret winning the tourney for the vacant title

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  42. Your_Favourite_LoserSeptember 5, 2013 at 7:14 PM

    i think russo needs to a timeline for that one week in '01 or whenever when he came back to wwe

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  43. He came back the week that TNA made their debut I believe.

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  44. When was the last time Russo booked something like that? He's a proven failure at this point

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  45. Well, I guess he wasn't a black supremacist. But he did join a Black Supremacist organization...I guess because he felt he needed backup against DX?

    Look, I agree with you that the current product is often pretty bland. Where I disagree is with the idea that Russo is the solution. Granted, it wouldn't be bland, but then neither is a car crash.

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  46. Comparing Russo to Heyman is like comparing horse manure to ice cream. Heyman was a fantastic booker who did an excellent job of masking the weaknesses of his talent. We just mentioned in the other thread how Dreamer/Raven was a THREE YEAR FEUD. Heyman's weaknesses were not creative (well, maybe he should have pulled the trigger on RVD), they were financial.


    Russo basically had one hot run and even then you're never going to really know how much of that was him and how much of it was Shane/Vince/Patterson. Although I'd wager that it wasn't nearly as much Russo as we've been led to believe.

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  47. I gave up on this pretty quickly. Russo is a fucking asshole and a lying no talent piece of shit. He had one hot run in 97-99 for WWE, quit and the company actually got much better once he left. Wasn't his payoff for the Stephanie/Test wedding Steph fucking Vince? How cares, he sucked.

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  48. The payoff was Test turns around and it's Triple H instead of the drugged wedding chapel video. WWE got hot in 2000 as Triple H had possibly the best run of any wrestler ever and Chris Benoit was having 4 star matches once a week on TV. Triple H and Benoit would have happened with or without Russo.

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  49. The internet argued that the old guard should have been the heels...but realistically it was going to be hard to put together a faction consisting of Hogan, Flair, Sting, Nash, Hall, DDP, and Savage and have them be the heels. That's a lot of star power, and I think the New Blood would have been booed regardless.

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  50. That's how it actually turned out, that's not what jvc113 is referring too. There was a proposed angle where it was going to be revealed that Vince was the father of Stephanie's baby, - it was even mentioned on the Vince DVD WWE put out. But it was much later when Stephanie was pregnant IRL, but that wasn't until 2006.

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/807563-9-proposed-angles-that-thankfully-never-happened/page/3


    It is insane that anybody thought of that, and it's even more insane that Stephanie would admit to the story for a DVD and that nobody would edit it out. I almost wonder if they were deliberately trolling people with that story.

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  51. "2000 as Triple H had possibly the best run of any wrestler ever"



    That's a little bit of hyperbole, don't you think?


    The booking was MUCH tighter once Russo left. Up until that point, the WWF title changed hands in 1999 more than it had in like the 10 years previous, and Russo's musical champions bit would have continued to devalue the title. The HHH/Steph deal helped make HHH the hot star of 2000 (he was not as over in the Fall of 99, he got the title and we were all kind of grinning and bearing it), and that was the post-Russo conclusion to the storyline.


    HHH was a luke warm heel under Russo, and it was stuff HHH did AFTER Russo left (marriage, McMahon/Helmsley era, Foley feud) that made him.

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  52. What's really strange is how he says he has reverence for the legends, and then look at how he actually booked Flair, with all sorts of ridiculous angles involving David and Stacy Kiebler. I wonder if in his own way, he actually thought he was showing respect to Flair by trying include him in those storylines?

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  53. The problem with his argument that fans and wrestlers take fake fighting too seriously is that it neglects the fact that even fiction has to maintain a consistent internal logic unless that fiction exists solely to break or toy with logic. You don't see a character on Game of Thrones stop mid-show to shoot on the actor portraying another character. Yes, breaking the fourth wall works in certain films, but that's because movies like Airplane! are intended solely as farce or Renton speaking to the viewer in Trainspotting is intended to highlight how the viewer is complicit in what's taking place. The former is fine for wrestling in small doses, but no one in wrestling has the ability nor the nuance to pull off the latter. In the absence of that, you need a consistent internal logic or the viewer becomes frustrated and gives up.

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  54. Russo wrote the marriage.

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  55. "maybe he should have pulled the trigger on RVD"

    And he never should have pulled it on Justin Credible...although the cupboard was pretty bare by that point.

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  56. Oh my god, that Baron von Bava story is the greatest. Just the mental image of a writer goose stepping in front of a stunned Vince is priceless, because I can't even believe that's the worst idea Vince has ever heard.

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  57. Wasent a big fan of this addition. Hopefully Lex 1993 WWF fares better

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  58. Heyman claimed in retrospect he was waiting until his audience had grown more to do the RVD title chase.

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  59. Got to love how Russo claims that TNT does not have any current shows that can draw higher ratings than Nitro while completely ignoring that Rizzoli & Isles and Major Crimes frequently beat RAW in the ratings and RAW's current ratings are about 1.5 million more viewers than what Nitro averaged in 2000, not to mention The Closer frequently topped Nitro's average when it debuted eight years ago.

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  60. I really don't understand why it has to be one or the other. I want to see interesting, compelling characters in well written storylines that lead to great matches. It is possible, WWE does it all the time.

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  61. What I really don't get is that Russo has had a reputation for pushing more technical type guys at times, moreso than some. He stuck up for Jericho, put titles on Storm, and did all the New Blood shit. Weird that all of a sudden he hates anyone trying to wrestle. And I take it he hasn't seen any of Daniels's "Ring General" character.

    Other than that, yeah, fuck this deluded piece of shit. I'm proud to be the kind of fan he thinks is killing the business, despite the fact that he pitched at the mythical "casual fan" and his company died. As for his obsession with shock, Scott said it best: "if I order a pizza and you deliver a magazine, will I be shocked? Yes! Will I ever order from you again? No!"

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  62. I think Russo is a huge mark for himself. He really needs the ability to edit and say, "you know what, that idea didn't work out like I was hoping it would." That being said, I still think the idea of blaming only Russo for WCW failing is silly. The company was a total wreck. He sure didn't help things, though.

    But I will say, I used to watch WCW religiously back then because, I dunno, I watched both shows. His mid-card stuff had flashes of brilliance. It was too bad he got so wrapped up in his bad ideas.

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  63. Pretty sure he didn't. Russo was long gone by the time the marriage took place and they booked an "amnesia" angle for Steph right after Russo left to buy time to change the angle.

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  64. That was the last WCW ppv I ever bought. Wonder why.....

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  65. I said this last week. Putting Russo in charge of WCW was like the captain of the Titanic deciding the way to save the ship would be to hit the iceberg a second time. But faster. And with Judy Bagwell on a poll.

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  66. Kind of the point was, we were sick of seeing all those guys (except Flair). If those guys were still popular, WCW wouldn't have been doing terrible ratins and buyrates. Compare Uncensored from 1999 and 2000.

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  67. He joined the Nation of Domination for a while and it was hilarious. It was actually a way to get him some help in his war wih DX. So you know who got more over as a result? You guessed it - HHH.

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  68. Rock and Austin did much better stuff together after Russo left. And you don't need to be a booking genius on see that match is gonna pop a rating.

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  69. Five star matches are shows...

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  70. You're right, they don't need to be mutually exclusive.

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  71. So is Jim Cornette done with any Sean Oliver interviews now that he's interviewed Russo as well? I'd have to imagine Corny would hold a grudge against him for interviewing his arch nemesis.

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  72. Fans don't want surprises. People don't want surprises. They want the good guys to win, the bad guys to fail, and the hero to get the girl. People want the expected. People want to pick up a romance novel and get romance. People want to turn on an action movie and get action.


    Surprises have their role in storytelling, but they have to flow naturally from the story to maintain story cohesion and internal logic. Otherwise people won't trust your work anymore and they won't believe in what you're selling.

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  73. Ratings! Ratings, ratings, ratings! What's the rating on this post? How about I take out my dick and wave it around a little? That'll get the rating up! Ratings bro! You gotta understand it's about the ratings.

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  74. I think that is what goes through Russo's mind when he writes a wrestling show.

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  75. He wanted to push newer and younger wrestlers. I don't think he really cared if they were good technically or good workers. He wanted to push Jericho because he was a good character, a good talker, and was the hot new thing. I doubt he cared one way or the other about his in-ring work.

    And I thought it was Terry Taylor who put all the belts on Storm.

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  76. I'll give him a pass on that. Who seriously remembers all the ratings of every show on a network? The basic point is accurate - even towards the end Nitro was still getting ratings that were considered pretty good for cable TV.

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  77. That segment has a match between the two biggest stars of the past 15 or so years, with the involvement of a third guy who easily in the top 10. Putting Austin and the Rock against each other on free TV to get a good reaction and a hot crowd doesn't take a genius.

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  78. I've been watching some of Russo's WCW episodes lately and they're as horrible as I remembered. As he's fond of mentioning, in his mind wrestling doesn't mean anything in a wrestling show, so the matches are typically shit. Which is fine, the Attitude Era wasn't known for solid in ring action and I enjoyed it, so how about the storylines? I honestly don't think he wrote one storyline that either had a clear ending or ever actually got there. It felt like a bunch of random shit that doesn't make sense, likely "written" at the last minute and continually "written" as he went along until he came up with another idea that was better than the idea currently in place so he drops that and moves onto something else. I can say with complete certainty that when I was a kid, I took playing with my wrestling figures seriously. I would write down the show I was about to act out with the following show already planned. I literally ran my action figures when I was 10 in a more coherent and logical manner than Vince Russo ran WCW.

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  79. It must have been one of Fegelein's antics.

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  80. I don't give him all the blame for the company going out of business, there were a lot of factors that caused that. But the guy did write some of the worst, illogical wrestling television I've ever seen. He's not the reason but he certainly didn't help matters.

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  81. "We" being the IWC was sick of those guys. Most of them were still getting pretty decent pops. And collectively that's a crap load of star power, and would have been hard to boo. I never was a big Hogan fan, but I would have probably marked out somewhat if they had Hogan & Flair team up.

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  82. I think Russo's the type of guy who can come up with an idea but he needs people who know what they're doing to take his idea and incorporated into a wrestling show - he spits out "What if we turn Undertaker into a Satanic cult leader?" and then the people who know how to book a wrestling show do so with Undertaker becoming a Satanic cult leader.

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  83. That's retarded, you didn't include ONE wedding? Weddings draw rantings!

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  84. I don't know how far it may have been written in advance, but Russo & Ferrara signed with WCW in October, 1999. The Stephanie-Test wedding was at the end of November. I know that neither company was writing very far in advance at that point, but it's plausible that the idea was being kicked around and discussed while Russo was still there.

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  85. It makes no sense! If Hogan and Jarrett is the scheduled title match why are they deciding to put the title on Booker T? He talks as if putting the title on Booker T was the plan all along, only he wasn't advertised to be in a title match, he was a midcarder at the time, he had no story leading into becoming a main eventer....

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  86. From what I recall at the time they were scrapping anything Russo had left them. I can't see them having the payoff to a big angle like that be something Russo came up with, if for no other reason than to keep him from leaking it. Also, Triple H and Stephanie having a secret wedding for him to gain power in the company is perfectly logical - no Russo finger prints on that one.

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  87. It's been a while since I watched Star Wars, but I'm pretty sure that Luke Skywalker never stopped partway through a movie to cut a promo on how much he hated James Earl Jones.

    Although Luke & Leia kissing is right up Russo's alley.

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  88. Well, my point is that since there are no objective measurements of success from a viewing audience for wrestling. The best (that's what five star means) match is the most entertaining one.


    If you're entertained by Burning Hammers, than Kobashi is your guy. If you like flips, watch Blitzkrieg. Psychology nut? Punk. Larger than life superheros defeating villains is what you want, go watch Hogan matches.


    There is no ONE best match type, there are types your prefer, but five star matches, at their heart, are whatever entertains the most. So yeah, having five star matches is important.

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  89. I really fail to understand how Russo doesn't understand that the thing that makes people watch a Wrestling show over other forms of entertainment is a good match. It's not fucking rocket science, people enjoy larger than life characters settling their issues in some gratifying simulated violence.



    He had some good ideas, shades of grey, give everyone something to do, trying to make things less predictable, but he just has the attention span of a 3 year old and his stories lack logic. The WWF got progressively worse as his influence increased and once he left it greatly improved.

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  90. I wonder if Cornette can even keep up with all of his arch enemies at this point.

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  91. honestly it wasnt that far fetched. truth be told, at some point during the show it occurred to me that there was a very strong chance that booker was walking out with the title somehow



    the reason for this is that online you could tell there were behind he scenes murmurings that they really wanted to start pushing booker, so in a "no ones expecting it" way it was expected


    so even though there was the "yes they finally pulled the trigger!' surprise, the actual possibility of it happening wasnt alien, at least to me

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  92. You aren't giving Russo enough credit. He had one hot run...that was responsible for the biggest moneymaking period in the industry. Ever. And yes he played a huge role in that.


    His problem was that "crash TV" consumes itself over time. I think in a sense even he knows that which is why he wanted to move on and "take on a new challenge". The best thing about Russo is that he gives everyone something interesting to do and gives guys actual characters with motivations, something that wrestling in general has lacked in the past 5-8 years or so.



    Just like Heyman needs to have someone watch his finances, Russo needs to be kept away from the main event talent and told "no" from time to time. Yes, Heyman is better than him at what he does and needs less supervision but you sell Russo criminally short. He did some good things when he was supervised properly.

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  93. Russo is right. If Punk had just laid down and let Brock pin him, it would have done the same thing. That amazing match was pointless. What a fool, that CM Punk!

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  94. The problem with that angle to me was that it's impossible to really "hold someone down" in a sport where the fights are supposed to be real. Short of denying them big matches, how do you "hold someone back"? I mean obviously nobody THINKS it's real, but it's something that only really works if you think about it in a "Shoot" context. Of course, Russo LIKES that, as much as he pretends that the 'net doesn't matter in anything.

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  95. Russo seems a bit aggravated after years of the internet ripping on him. Which is funny, because a lot of his stuff was specifically targeted at online fans, and no other fans could have "gotten" it.

    He's also pretty pissed that his stuff can't really hold up anymore, and that he was only really successful for a couple years. I'll give him mad props for writing some fun stuff, some funny stuff, and giving all the undercard guys something to do, but all of his insane booking, shock-value stuff and random events ("it doesn't matter!" is not something ANY writer should be saying- imagine if actual TV show writers acts like it didn't matter what happened to Dexter or Tony Soprano or something because "it's not real") turn everything else into a mess.

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  96. How many 5 star matches can you name from the Original Hulkamania run?


    I can name one.


    Still a shit ton of money.


    CZW is still in business after 10 years.
    I don't know if they have had one **** star match ever.



    having 5 star matches are NOT importnat.


    Have matches that are compelling and engaging are.

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  97. That because of Chris Kreski (RIP)


    I'm a Chris Kreski Guy.

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  98. You should have broke it up into single sentence/paragraphs.


    Regardless, loved reading every second of it.


    Questions though:
    1. Every time Sean does a WCW timeline he seems disinterested. From 91 and the Dillon year. How was he on this one? BEcause comparing to the WWF/ECW ones, he is totally engrossed with those companies and their talent. I understand he probably grew up on those two promotions but it still just bothers me.


    2. When you provide a link for the next shoot to be done, could you allow people to comment on the BoD, rather than you just linking to the poll? I have no problem voting and what not, I just wanna add some .02 on the BoD and get that talking as well.


    Comment.


    I hate your Fantasy football teams.


    Love,
    Fuj

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  99. He wasn't a midcarder per se.


    The singles push started in late 97, its just he had an injury in summer of 98 that derailed him and in 99, nobody really wanted to put him over..


    So he kept being Steiner's bitch on PPV.

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  100. Heyman's other strength was letting the guys do and say what they wanted and not micromanage what happened in the ring.


    The guys were either gonna get over, or not.


    The ones he personally had vested interests in were
    Taz
    Dreamer
    Credible


    2/3 aint bad, you know?

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  101. No they just announced they made up.

    They have 2 new discs in the works for '14 and '15

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  102. "When I was growing up in New York, I had a really annoying shitty accent -- like the one I have now! -- so my uncle brutally throat fucked me with his fat cacciatore sosich."

    Didn't think I'd go there, did you?

    "That's why I'm terrible at everything I do: because I'm repressing shame. Ratings! Ratings! Make the memories go away!"

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  103. I haven't watched Dexter recently but from what I've been hearing, that does seem to be the attitude their writers have.

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  104. I wasn't, and I don't think that Russo was, saying that a "5 star" match is whatever your personal preference is.
    Basically what Fuj says below, except I would change his last line to "Having stories that are compelling and engaging are."
    If people are hooked on the story, the match quality at the end of the story matters little. People wanted to see Hogan vs Andre, and Austin vs McMahon. That the matches weren't really that great mattered very little.
    What I think that Russo was saying, and what I agree with, is that if you sit down to book your wrestling program and your top concern is having great matches (as we on the internet, and apparently Christopher Daniels, conventionally think of them) then you are limiting your audience.

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  105. 1. Sean ran out of steam by the end but he did challenge Russo more than anyone else and was paying attention. I cant blame anyone for losing interest in the Windham Timeline.
    2. I can try another poll. I just use pollcode and you can publish it through Blogger but the comments all go there. I will put it up at some point today, late afternoon/eary evening most likely
    I'm bummed I miised the Yahoo draft but did get to pre-rank my players and thought that it worked out well for me. My ESPN team has shitty RB's though but I still mamanged to win the division last year with worse options.
    Thanks for the love.

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  106. Difference being all those stars were past their cell by date in terms of the reactions they would draw from the crowds and fans wanted a new hero to cheer.

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  107. I don't mean Booker getting the title didn't make sense - I recall him being pushed pretty strong and in that Scott Steiner category where it seemed possible they'd be moving up sooner or later - I just mean that it doesn't make sense to me that you decide that Booker T is the guy and the time to give him the title is now, and the way you go about that is to have him win it in an unscheduled, unadvertised match with no storyline, no build-up. If Booker is going to be their next guy, wouldn't they want to give him a chase? Even if it's a quick one month build to a pay per view match people actually know will be taking place. I assumed it was a last minute decision because of Hogan but it seems as if the plan all along was to have Booker leave Bash at the Beach with the title which makes it even dumber to me that they knew in advance they wanted to put the title on Booker and still thought this was the best way to do it.

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  108. All I want to know is what happens to him in the end. The last 10 minutes of this season is all I need to see.

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  109. It's a shame we never got to see El Matador 2000.

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  110. This is how I see a typical Russo/McMahon booking meeting going.


    Russo - "Vince, I got this great idea. Let's turn the Undertaker heel. He'll start acting Satanic, he'll have a cult and he can even sacrifice people live on Raw. Think of the ratings! People will watch, Vince."


    McMahon - "That's good, I like it. And where do we go from there?"


    Russo - "Ummm, how about Stephanie is pregnant, okay? But she's a virgin, right? So we'll have the Undertaker say he's the father, like he's God and she's his virgin Mary. So we'll have a wedding, right? And at the wedding Steve Austin comes out, and he says that he's the father - that he knocked Stephanie up to get back at you for making his life hell. Undertaker will still say he's the father until Mankind comes out with hidden video showing Undertaker and Kane having sex. They're both gay and they're not really brothers! So Undertaker can't be the father. So Austin's the father and 9 months later the baby's born and it's black Vince, the baby's black. Now Austin's on a mission to beat up every black son of a bitch in the company until he finds out who knocked up Stephanie. So Austin has a DNA test done but before he can read the results Kane's gonna jump him. Lay him out. Then Kane cuts a promo saying that his name isn't really Kane it's Glenn Jacobs and Kane is just a gimmick he was forced to play. Maybe he's still gay, maybe not, we'll come back to it. So Glenn will take the DNA test and we'll put it on a pole and do Austin vs Jacobs to find out who the father of the baby is. So Austin wins the match and reads the DNA test and the father is.....Billy Gunn.


    McMahon - "But I thought the father was black?"


    Russo - "We'll come back to that Vince!"


    McMahon - "Okay, why don't you just let us take it from here."

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  111. Yes, and he only needed two of the most charismatic personalities ever to get there.

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  112. Russo is such an idiot, and this interview confirms it. I mean, in what form of storytelling do you basically tell your audience "Who cares what happens?! It's fake!"

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  113. Brilliant. Except that when Kane cuts a promo saying he's really Glenn Jacobs, he'll also have to say how much he hates 'Steve Williams', so we all know that the fight is FOR REAL.

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  114. 'put titles on Storm'


    i read this as 'put titties on storm'


    /goldust

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  115. Five star matches are matches that are compelling and engaging.


    That's my point.


    What is a five star match?


    Can you objectively state one wrestling match is better than another wrestling match?


    What is the purpose of wrestling?

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  116. Wrestling matches are part of the story of wrestling. You can't separate promos from matches.


    Austin vs. McMahon matches were entertaining, correct? What more do you want out of wrestling than entertainment? If Austin vs. McMahon was the most entertaining match you personally have ever seen, then why isn't it a five star match?

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  117. I don't believe for a moment that you really don't understand what I'm saying, Phred.

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  118. I re-read what you initially wrote and I get what you are saying.


    Im trying to make sense out of RUsso-speak (and Im an idiot for it)


    I believe that whatever you like is a 5star match as well but in the Russo-verse, he is portraying the IWC version of a 5star match. The Meltzer type of matches. Joe/Kobashi Daniels/Joe/Styles et al.


    I totally understand where he is coming from.


    Those matches, while entertaining as hell. Made no money for the company.


    Its like I have been saying about TNA for the past 2-3 years.


    "sure the matches are great, but where's the money at? What are they doing to make money in 3-6 months?"


    Being entertained NOW, means nothing when you aren't drawing fans... because you wont be entertained in 6 months when the company loses its top talent cuz it cant make payroll, or worse, it goes out of business completely.

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  119. First of all - it's Russo. There's no concept of a 'chase' or 'build'.

    I think that to some extent Booker was the 'safe' choice, given the horrible nature of WCW and it's backstage politics at the time. Everybody seemed to like and respect him and/or he wasn't viewed as a 'threat'.

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  120. Russo left in October, the marriage was at the end of November.

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  121. I get what you're saying. I just think you (and Russo) are wrong.


    Great matches are great stories.

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  122. You're talking the Meltzer 5 Star match. Workrate for the sake of workrate. Burning Hammers and more moonsaults than Neil Armstrong's biography.


    Yeah, I agree with you. American promotions can't be supported by athletic bouts that don't lead anywhere or resolve anything. Great matches can't exist in a vacuum.


    Austin/Bret at WM13 is not as good if you don't know Bret's character or Austin's character and the nature of their feud leading into the match. And it drew a lot of money for the company (well, not the match itself, but the aftermath of it) because it was a great match and a great story.

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  123. The crazy thing about this is, that Booker won his first title in july 2000 and after the end of WCW in march 2001, he was already 5 time 5 time 5 time 5 time 5 time WCW Champion...;)

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  124. He was a four time four time four time four time WCW champion.


    He beat Jeff Jarrett- 1
    He beat Kevin Nash- 2
    He won the vacant title in the 49ers match- 3
    He beat Steiner on the last Nitro- 4


    He won his 5th title beating Angle on RAW

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  125. Damn, but it's true. Ok, but 4 are still too many for only 9 months or so.

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  126. I think Jeff Jarrett won a ton in 2000.

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  127. Russo does that thing that Bischoff does, and it drives me crazy. They go on and on about how Internet fans represent such a small portion of the audience (10% seems like the popular number), and then in the very next sentence goes on about ratings went up and how THAT is an indication of success. Yet NIelsen only represents something like 0.02% of the population.

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  128. Nice Seinfeld reference.

    I loved how the executive delivers "not yet".

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  129. I'm not going to disagree with that, in theory.
    But I would also, sarcastically, say of course - that's why ROH has been so wildly successful in the past 10 years. Vince would love to see their numbers.

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  130. On the one hand, I can see where he's coming from about guys too wrapped up in the wrestilng part. After all, Bret Hart's refusal to drop a title he didn't actually "win" made havoc on his life and of course, Benoit stands as an example of a guy insisting on doing all the damage for real and we know how that turned out.
    But it ignores the tiny fact that wrestling is the KEY to all this, not just whacky characters. Yes, it's a show but guess what, every show needs their performers playing their roles well and not breaking the illusion. But to Russo, the illusion is worthless, he wants everyone to see it the way he does and we saw the results of that in WCW's collapse.

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  131. And I'd argue that RoH hasn't had that many great matches.


    Technical and athletic ones yes. But a lot of incredibly unsatisfying ones. Their 60 minute time limit draws...blegh.

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  132. 3 paragraphs in and the takeaway message seems to be: It's bad when everyone else is a mark for themselves, but it's awesome when Vince Russo is a mark for Vince Russo. I'm guessing this is a plot to work the internet and that he will win the Bound For Glory series next week despite not wrestling in a single match.

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  133. It worked in the Main Event Mafia...kind of, Give them all suits and sun glasses and let them be big assholes.

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  134. Compare Uncensored 1999 to WWF Wrestlemania 14 and you know why WCW was in deep trouble. Even long before Vince Russo...

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