Why is it that people are so adamant WWE will never turn John Cena heel? People said the same about Hulk Hogan at one point which is what made his turn shocking in 1996. Now that they have two guys that are getting close to his level in popularity (CM Punk & Daniel Bryan) isn't it time? I'm predicting he loses to Daniel Bryan early next year in his return match and than becomes a tweener heading into his feud with Undertaker ultimately turning heel after or at WM30. Cena becomes heel by ending the streak? Punk & Bryan can sell the same merchandise as Cena.
Hogan wasn't drawing money as a babyface in 1996, and in fact without that turn the company was probably going to go into a downward spiral with Hogan on top, and everyone knew it. John Cena (even though he gets booed by smart-ass fans) draws thousands of people to house shows every night, makes ratings go up, and sells merchandise numbers that would make 1996 Hogan cry like a little baby. JOHN CENA IS NOT TURNING HEEL. Nor should he. Companies that base major business decisions on whiny internet nerds like us, such as TNA leaving the Impact Zone, deserve what they get.
Can you just sticky this to the top of your blog so that it's just a permanent catch-all to all the "Cena turning" e-mails?
ReplyDeleteIs there a rumor that Cena's turning heel? I hadn't heard anything about this. He's a really popular guy so that would be kind of shocking. It seems like some of the fans are kind of tired of him, but then it seems like some other fans are still into him. Maybe if he turned heel it would be kind of like when Hulk Hogan turned heel with the NWO in 96, but then again Hogan had been on top for much longer and had thoroughly exhausted his fan base by that point. If Cena turned heel, is it possible that some of the fans who boo him now might start to cheer him while the fans who cheer him now might start to boo him? That seems like a thing that could happen, but wouldn't that just leave them right where they are in the first place?
ReplyDeleteI heard that Cena might wrestle with the Undertaker at Wrestlemania. What if Cena cheated to beat the Undertaker? It seems like that might be a way to turn him heel. Has that ever been suggested? Or maybe he could do something mean to Daniel Bryan. The fans like Bryan so much that maybe they might not like Cena so much after he does something like plays a dirty trick on Bryan. Or Cena could be friends with Randy Orton and Triple H while Bryan, Punk, and Dolph Ziggler all have a bunch of good matches and work hard for the fans' approval then they could do a War Games at Survivor Series with The Shield and The Wyatt Family.
Has anyone else noticed that sometimes Cena will be cutting a promo, and the situation will be pretty serious, but then Cena will laugh or make a joke? I've seen him do this a couple times. It seems like maybe that would be something a heel might do. Like when Kevin Nash hurt Rey Mysterio's head by throwing him into a truck and Hulk Hogan just laughed and played air bass the whole time. Maybe if Cena was a heel, he could still laugh at serious stuff and then people could boo him for it.
I don't know. These are just some ideas that came to me. I hadn't ever thought about Cena being a heel before, but now that it's been mentioned it seems like it might make his character be different than it's been for a long time and maybe that would be more interesting. But if he sold less shirts that would also be bad for business and maybe the people who are Cena fans aren't done being Cena fans yet so it wouldn't make sense to have Cena behave in a way that discourages them from still being Cena fans. This is all very complicated, many angles to consider. If any changes were to be made, I would hold off until after Cena's back from surgery. Because it would probably make sense to not change his character until he's part of the active roster again.
Why would you turn Cena heel?
ReplyDeleteTurn him heel, guess what, he turns back face.
Vince has the perfect guy on top.
He gets booed and cheered. Still sells merch like crazy. Still draws fans to see him and lose.
He doesn't turn away viewers although people repeatedly say that this is the LAST RAW EVUR they are watching with Cena on top.
Turning Cena Heel means nothing at this point. Half the audience boos him like a heel.
I like the fact that he can get booed in certain cities, meanwhile cheered in others. Its more real that way. They are letting the fans decide what to do, and still getting money.
Eventually it will get tiring but as of now, its not.
Why stop that cash flow?
Not that I'm advocating for a Cena heel turn anytime soon, but ratings are always roughly the same with or without Cena. When he was injured in late 2007 and now.
ReplyDeleteAs long as he boosts business in a positive manner through whatever mediums it would be stupid to turn him heel. How ever 'never' turning him heel would be silly as I think every performer has an expiry date (just like pop stars) before they become completely stale and people switch off or buy into someone else more fresh.
ReplyDeletePersonally something I noticed about Cena's last run as champion was his lack of crowd response relative to what he is use to getting. It was more apathetic in general until he came up directly against Daniel Bryan. After Wrestlemania numbers dropped significantly and didn't pick up notably until Punk returned and DB started to get his singles push... so how far away is Cena from losing that 'ultimate' drawing power? Maybe nearer than you think (still a while off though). The moment it happens the best thing they can do is turn him heel which would reignite him as a character regardless if people cheer or boo him. The investment from people wanting to see how things unfold and curiosity alone would likely draw significant boosts both in the short term and in the long-term when he eventual returns to his preachy self down the line.
*You say Hogan was on top for much longer, around 12 years by 96', whilst Cena has been on top for 8 years but the difference is there is far more TV exposure compared to Hulk's era, and everything moves a lot faster now (and more disposable) than a couple of decades ago. I'd say in relative terms Cena has been far more over exposed than Hogan ever was based on TV hours and general media outlets. So in some ways it surprises me that he still isn't completely stale at this point for a lot of fans out there, I guess that is a testament to both Cena himself and the WWE marketing machine.
ReplyDeleteIt's true, but the company is so obsessed with optics. It's funny that they're obsessed with everything... other than this. They tell stories, cram them down people's throats, and this one has been rejected by alot of people. Then again, heel Punk was kind of like the bizarro Cena. BUT, they did give up on that one eventually.
ReplyDeleteI think the long term game plan for Cena is similar to Sting and Bret Hart. The WWE recognizes that Cena isn't the type of guy to ignite an Attitude Era type of following for their product. That said, he can drive the product and bottom line until such people come along and lend cred to said people when they do. Wrestling has cycles and you need the Backlunds and Harts to bridge the time between the booms.
ReplyDeleteI also get a sense that "smark" fans will like him more if he turns, to which I'm calling bullshit. Those fans will still boo him out of the building and give him "YOU CAN'T WRESTLE" chants and all the other smark bullshit because that's what they do, to borrow Henry's phrase. I loved the promo that Cena cut (IIRC it was last year) that basically said that smarks were gonna boo him no matter what, so why bother trying to please those folks; he's just gonna continue to be who is to the (still significant) portion of the audience that he still connects with, and if you don't like him, CM Punk is on the show as well.
ReplyDeleteI can't, for the life of me, tell if you're serious or vehemently facetious. You're either brilliant, or your points were well thought out.
ReplyDeleteWrestling is what it is at this point. It's a steady, semi-niche thing and I think WWE is OK with making its peace with that because they still see profits and USA Network sees a lot of profits.
ReplyDeleteCena has been on top about twice as long as Hogan was, given PPV cycles and TV and such. There's also a big difference having to cut a new live promo every week and putting a few 2 minute ones in the hopper at a taping.... so by that measure the difference between the two runs is almost infinite. Hogan probably did 5-6 "live" promos a year. Cena probably does 40.
ReplyDeleteCena will likely turn heel close to retirement in a similar fashion to ECW 96 Taz, where he just lets it all hang out and rips the audience to shreds. WWE will build new stars if only because Trips will eventually be incapable of in-ring activity and will have to get down to the business of making a sustainable corre of stars. IMO, it'd be best in a year or however long it takes for Cena to say "Fuck this, I'm out", to have Antonio Cesaro as the usual charismatic fan favorite pitted against the insufferable asshole Cena in a retirement match at SS, but something tells me it'll be Roman Reigns getting the rocket via eventual association with The Rock. It'll be someone with the star look, I'm sure of that.
ReplyDeleteI still don't get what the point of turning Cena heel would be. He's already a heel to the people who want him to be a heel. He's a face to the people who want him to be a face. He has somehow managed to be everything anyone wants him to be. The people who want "permission to boo" already have it. (They market their own anti-Cena merch even.) He definitely could at some point down the line, but right now, what would be the gain from it? Hogan turned heel, which put him at odds with everyone on the roster. Cena turns heel to...feud with a couple of good guys? He can do that as a face, and has been off and on for the last 5 years. When have we ever had reason to say "Well Cena can't fight him because they're both babyfaces." If it's the same either way, why mess with the formula?
ReplyDeletePlus, I'd argue that a Cena heel turn wouldn't feel like as big of a deal as it might seem on paper since half the fan base boos him anyway. He was never unilaterally loved, even on his own show. It just doesn't seem like it would have the same impact.
They will turn him but it'll be when his value as a performer and to the company is at its lowest, hence we won't care about it as much when it happens. A Cena heel turn will draw money whenever they do it so theyd be fucking retarded to do it a second before they have to. Its like speculating what would happen if the Heat traded LeBron.
ReplyDeleteI think "Cena heel turn" talk has becone its own form of being a mark. "Lets keep talking and hoping for it because I want to see it even though it makes zero objective sense."
I've read Scott for like 15 years and this is the biggest difference of opinion I have ever had with him. I understand he brings in some kids, and on a bigger level I understand that he is a squeaky clean face for a now very public image conscious company. At the same time he is not exactly growing the business. Many of the kids watching now will out grow wrestling all together, while the hardcore older fans are turning away in droves. The Cena heel turn is like the one bullet left in the chamber that WWE has. Cena turning heel has been begged for by fans, and at the same time will still be a very shocking moment. Cena is the ultimate high school quarterback / prom king / cool kid that everyone hates. My only concern is that I would prefer the creative be spearheaded by someone like Paul Heyman or Vince Russo as I have no faith in Stephanie and her group of clowns. Heel Cena would sell plenty of merchandise, possibly more than he currently does. MNF starts this week, WWE is screwed as NFL is more popular than ever, while there product has become a niche. You notice the crowds are getting smarter and smarter as that's all that left - the hardcore smart fans. The Cena heel turn could be a universally intriguing and business growing angle. I for one am shocked it hasn't happened already, it defies all wrestling logic.
ReplyDeleteThe Hogan turn was a perfect storm. There was a large portion of the fan base who never embraced him in the first place. It was easy to cast him as the enemy the tradition and history of the WCW/NWA since he had only been there briefly. And the involvement of Nash and Hall helped push the whole storyline in a certain direction, that I don't think Hogan would have gotten to on his own. And the corresponding angle with Sting disappearing and WCW losing it's hero was brilliant as well.
ReplyDeleteIt was the right people in the right place at the right time. It's naive to think a Cena turn would automatically be successful.
If they can come up with a compelling reason, then go for it. But to have him turn for the same of turning would be a disaster.
ReplyDeleteI think you're discounting exactly how much merchandise Cena sells. No way a heel Cena sells that much. I know people site the nWo as an example of a heel selling merchandise, but everything about the nWo at the start was lightning in a bottle.
Yea, Hogan heel got to be part of the hottest angle wrestling had seen in years. Hogan turning heel on his own would have been alot less successful
ReplyDeleteNo offense, but you lost me at Vince Russo. You could hire a monkey to randomly type nonsense on a keyboard, and it would make more sense then anything Russo would come up with.
ReplyDeleteWhat worries me about Cena being a top face is that WWE will never embrace anyone else in that role. Look what happened with Punk? They turned him heel on the Rock in July 2012... who didn't reappear on the show again until January 2013. Meanwhile, you're stuck with a guy fans didn't want to boo against a guy in Cena, who Punk fans didn't want to cheer.
ReplyDeleteIt's interesting that they've pretty much swept that period of Punk's career under the rug.
I'm worried that down the road they'll turn Bryan heel, because, well, just because...
He'll turn once he stops drawing and selling merch. Simple as that. Not happening in the immediate future. If some of his fans hang on to WWE into their teen years and eventually enough of them become jaded then he'll turn. But, really, he'll be a heel only in character, as the fans that boo him now will cheer him and vice versa.
ReplyDeleteMaybe you should ask Mick Foley, The Rock, Steve Austin, etc. if they feel the same way.
ReplyDeleteI don't need their opinion. All the evidence I need is on YouTube. Russo is a moron
ReplyDeleteMaybe the question at this point shouldn't be "when is Cena going to turn heel", but more along the lines of when is Cena going to take a more part-time role and let someone else become the #1 babyface on the show?
ReplyDeleteLet's assume Cena is never turning heel— he sells a lot of merch, he's too dedicated to the charity work, Vince feels he already plays heel to the people who hate him blah blah. To me the bigger issue is that as long as Cena is 100% fulltime, chasing teh title and cast as the central hero of the show...well there's never going to be a chance for WWE to grow or build a true new megastar. Punk and Bryan are getting treated by the fans as gods right now, but that's also because their feuds are getting all of the attention. What happens when Cena comes back, declares his intention to win back teh title, and we get Cena-Orton 5000 as the most important program on teh show?
Obviously that situation cuts the balls off of Bryan and Punk, and it makes it impossible for viewer interest to ever increase in the show because, great at his job or not, Cena has just been so overexposed for a decade now. Look at the ratings and buyrates headlined by Cena— a plateau is the best one could hope for with Cena at this point.
So all that said, I think that even if Cena is staying eternal babyface, they need to start transitioning him into not being the focus of the show. Obviously not a part-timer to the extent of Brock or Taker, but he really shouldn't be on the show every week. It should be a big deal when COle says "Hey, John cena will be on Raw next week!" He should ONLY wrestle on PPVs. And he shouldn't be programmed against the lead heel, or be in the mix for the WWE title. Wanna keep Cena face? Fine. But at this point he should be used for PPV dream matches, and to feud with the second tier heels to keep the kids happy, and to get the backs of the actual lead babyfaces (Bryan, Punk, Ziggler, Sheamus) when they need back-up. If Cena was used more as a special attraction, then I think it would be a good mix of A) Keeping Cena's fans engaged and B) Putting the spotlight on new lead faces so that interest in the product could actually grow.
Cena has a good 3 years left at least as a top babyface. I love cena and his gimmick and I hope they let him stay as the ultra goody two shoes babyface forever. However they are allowed to push more than 1 guy at a time, and they don't have to give other faces cenas exact gimmick. They should just push a few other guys to his level. And they are giving it a good try with punk and db but honestly they waited years and years to do that.
ReplyDeleteExactly! Totally agree with all this
ReplyDeleteGoldberg and Sting were universally loved by WCW fans when those heel turne were attempted. Russo's big mistake in WCW was trying to make it WWE not trying to make WCW great again. I'll take his work during the Attitude Era with all its twists, turns, swerves, and disregard for a format over the shit we see today. In that manner I think he would do a good job with the Cena heel turn.
ReplyDeleteExactly.
ReplyDeleteCena isn't turning heel any time soon, but - like it always does - the well will eventually begin to run dry and the fans will take to somebody else. EVENTUALLY, even if it's five years from now, he'll turn heel.
The only things stopping it from happening would be if he quits, is fired, or suffers a career-ending injury before it gets to that point.
Agreed on this. Storyline wise it made perfect sense that the secret third man of the ex-WWFers dedicated to destroying WCW was the biggest star that company had ever fielded at that point. It was brilliant.
ReplyDeleteThe Goldberg and Sting turns failed because there was no logic behind other than 'hey! let's turn him heel! Maybe it will be like Hogan's turn!" It had no purpose other than to 'shock' the audience. Which is pretty much the same as what people seem to be expecting with a Cena turn.
ReplyDeleteHas Cena's character grown stale? Yes, but there are ways you could freshen it up without him turning heel.
As I said - If they can come up with a good storyline for Cena to turn heel then do it. If you just are going to turn him heel to please a few internet smarks or because you can't think of anything else to do - then it's going to fail.
Heyman could possibly come up with a good angle, but I think the majority of Russo's work has shown that he has absolutely no concept coming up with an actual story - he just throws shit against the wall to see what sticks, and he has no interest or ability in actually writing out any sort of story. He does "twists, turns, and swerves" because that's the only thing he can do. He doesn't care about anything other than shocking people in the moment. And after a while the only thing that is shocking is how bad and nonsensical his storylines are.
So yeah, Russo could possibly write an angle that would have a SHOCKING Cena heel turn that would create buzz the first week. The problem is that there would be nothing to carry it forward into the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th weeks. Hogan's heel turn worked because there was an actual motivation behind it, and because it was part of a red-hot angle that carried forward for a while. Creating motivation and carrying a story forward is not something Russo has shown he is able to do.
"However they are allowed to push more than 1 guy at a time"
ReplyDeleteEXACTLY. Just because Cena is at the top of the card as a babyface, and doesn't mean they can't also push Punk and/or Bryan as top stars as well.
Having just re-watched some of Bryan's work as a heel champion in ROH, I have no problem if they decide to turn him heel. He was awesome.
ReplyDeleteTotally agree. Rock got over just fine while Austin was technically "Top Guy".
ReplyDeleteAgreed. I think that's exactly why we never got that Hogan/Savage vs. Sting/Luger PPV match we often mention on here. The WCW fans would have shat on the Megapowers
ReplyDeleteIf they ever turn Cena, it needs to be way down the road, once he's older and a part-timer. The Hogan turn made sense because he was the fading, aging "hero" who couldn't do it the superhero way anymore. Rather than be passed by, he turns into a ratfuck contradiction of his former self, ducking challengers, shitting on the fans, and cheating to win. Right now, Cena still beats everyone, hasn't lost a step in the ring, and has no character motivation to just turn into a bad guy overnight. I mean, I guess you could turn him into the elitist jock, high-school QB who knows how good he is...but why would that make sense now, after a decade of being the baby-kissing nice guy?
ReplyDeleteRegardless of Russo, I feel fans HATING Cena is plenty of reason to turn him. It's not just a few smart marks, Cena gets booed out of plenty of arenas.
ReplyDeleteThat's the problem with the entire business right now is the over saturation of the product. There is just too much WWE TV now, and with rumors of 3 hour Smackdown coming, it's overkill. It feels like Cena's been on top for decades, since we see him every week. In the 80s/early 90s how often did we see Hogan on TV? Not very often, especially in matches. The only TV matches he did were the SNME shows, otherwise we got a promo once in a while. It's a big problem, and it burns the fans out. Like those infamous TV tapings of the 80s/90s that went for hours. Been there, done that once it felt like it would never end.
ReplyDeleteWe all know no one, other than HHH, is allowed to be more on top then Cena. Anytime someone threatens the delicate balance of Cena being on top they get the rug pulled out from under them. I'm still expecting Cena to be the guy to dethrone Orton and end the Corporation angle at Mania, after being the first person to win 3 Royal Rumbles.
ReplyDeleteTotally agree with everything you said, Cena's been on top long enough an it's time for other people to shine. No one wants to see Orton/Cena again, but the WWE doesn't care and that's more then likely what we're getting. They have more then enough talent that can carry the show without Cena being on every week, but they're afraid of the backlash from parents who bring their kids to the shows if Cena is not there.
ReplyDeleteBooing him is fine as long as they're in the arena or watching on PPV. As far as those people are concerned, he's already a heel. So if business is good, he sells merchandise, and you have people paying to cheer for him or paying to see him lose, then what is the motivation for turning him?
ReplyDeletein the name of love?
ReplyDeletecollaborate and listen?
hammer time?
dragging my heart around?
drop and roll?
the madness?
i really hope cena doesnt become the poochie of wwe where even though hes gonna be gone for a while his name has to get dropped at least once per episode of raw
ReplyDeleteHammer time!!!!
ReplyDeleteAustin already won 3 Royal Rumbles.
ReplyDeleteDOH! I forgot about the 97 Rumble! My bad!
ReplyDeleteI for one haven't payed to see him wrestle a heel of the month ever in my life. Judging by the ratings a lot of fans aren't paying or watching either. We are firmly in different camps on the Cena heel turn issue and at this point we can just agree to disagree.
ReplyDeleteThe "sport" of professional wrestling will never see eye to eye with the "business" of professional wrestling. We will always love Bryan and Punk for being workrate kings inside the ring, shareholders will always love Cena and Miz for being workrate kings outside the ring.
ReplyDeleteBoth sides of the coin are equally valuable to everyone really.
Exactly. He's never gonna have the older-people appeal that bought CM Punk's BITW shirts on day 1, and they're not in the same number of droves of families, kids, and women who buy Cena merch multi-fold over everyone else's. I have a hard time believing even half of the anti-Cena turn-him-heel contingent would buy his stuff.
ReplyDeleteHe was great as a heel champ before Sheamus ended his reign.
ReplyDeleteThe whole general consensus on this thread is that people want Cena to stay face for the foreseeable future while stepping aside for Vanilla Midgets 2.0. That's an even more far fetched scenario than letting him run as the bad guy for a while. Cena staying face means Cena stays on top over Punk, Bryan, Shield, Ziggler, etc. and that is simply a fact. Heel Cena feuding with those guys would be fun stuff. Personally I think the time to turn Cena heel was 05' when he got booed out the building wrestling Edge. The whole situation is ridiculous. I make no apologies, I am a Turn Cena Heel Guy.
ReplyDeleteCena didn't start feuding with Edge until '06. And that program was what helped Cena get back some of his former crowd support after he was getting booed against heels like Jericho, Angle and HHH.
ReplyDeleteI appreciate Cena for being a workrate king both in and out of the ring.
ReplyDeleteWhich is what they've doing for quite some time.
ReplyDeleteI don't mean to pick on you because alot of people have this rationale... but saying "it's okay, you can boo him anyway" is the worst rationale not to turn someone I've ever heard. It's not a real sport, it's a soap, and if your lead protagonist constantly gets booed out of shows and gets destroyed at your big event of the "season", to the point that your secondary lead protagonist gets destroyed for being NICE to him....
ReplyDeleteHe's so hated by at least half of the audience that other faces associating with him increases their heel heat drastically.
Cena's stuff doesn't market well with adults because his merch is frankly, pretty embarassing to wear. Would you wear one of his pastel catchphrase nightmare shirts out in public and expect not to be stared at or belittled?
ReplyDeleteOne million percent agree with this. There is no point to ever turning him heel except as potentially late in his career to tell an interesting story. They book angles now where you're allowed to root against him. He's a heel to YOU, and WWE markets it that way. He doesn't have to start kicking puppies to change that.
ReplyDelete