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Random questions via the Rumble

So I've been watching some old Royal Rumbles and I have a few questions....

1) In the 1991 Rumble match, Brian Knobs appears but Jerry Saggs doesn't. Also, there is absolutely no mention from the commentators about the whereabouts of Jerry Saggs. I was a hardcore WWF/E guy (kid) at the time, but I was like 6, so the details are sketchy. My question is A) Where was Saggs? and B) Did Knobs come in by himself at first, with Saggs to follow later? Seemed odd splitting them up, especially considering they won the tag belts like 2 mos. later. 

2) Dustin Rhodes. Why did he make a one-time only appearance at Royal Rumble 91 and then go to WCW? Was it something to do with Dusty's departure? I don't know exactly when Dusty left, but I assume it was sometime between the Rumble and WM 7, since he wasn't at WM that year. Was Dustin under contract and scheduled to be used further and it just never happened or was it always meant to be a one shot deal?

3) What was the deal with Bret Hart losing the IC Title two days before Rumble 92? Was it simply to set up the Mountie/Piper/Hart stuff that followed or was Bret really hurt? I'm assuming the fever story wasn't the truth.

1)  Sags was injured and replaced by someone else.  

2)  The Rumble was the end of Dusty's WWF career, and he just wanted to get Dustin on a national stage to give him some exposure and kickstart his career before leaving.  I don't think he was ever meant as more than a one-shot deal, and really he was much better off in WCW anyway where daddy could make all the midcard heels bump for him.

3)  Bret was definitely exaggerating the fever.  The whole deal was just to set up the Piper match at Wrestlemania and give Piper someone he could beat convincingly without affecting anything in the midcard that mattered.  There was also rumblings of Bret jumping to WCW around that time, and here's the bit from the Observer talking about it...

One of the stranger stories of the past week involves the Intercontinental title. Officially, as the storyline goes, Bret Hart went to the ring with a 104 degree fever on Friday night (1/17) in Springfield, MA and lost the title to The Mountie. Mountie in turn dropped the title at the Rumble two days later to Roddy Piper. As has become pretty common knowledge as the week went on, Hart had negotiated and at one point agreed to a deal where he would debut on Tuesday (1/21) at the Clash of the Champions for WCW in Topeka where he'd come out with the Intercontinental title as something of a payback for the WWF bringing in Ric Flair and having him wear what WCW considered their world title belt (of course the situations are completely different in that Flair was fired by WCW after the company attempted to cut an existing contract almost in half, which somehow six months later WCW feels is the WWF's fault for, to the extent they went to court over getting the belt off WWF television shows. So this idea was to gain revenge on the WWF, but the difference is that Hart would be walking out on a valid contract). The fact Hart was losing the title in Springfield was the world's worst-kept secret being that the WWF syndicated shows went out on the satellite Wednesday, which means anyone with a dish (which probably means well over one million potential viewers) would have been able to watch on Wednesday them talk about, in the past tense, in detail, an angle that was going to occur two days later.

It should be noted that the decision made to change the Intercontinental title from Hart to Piper was made weeks ago, before any talks had even started with WCW. So despite rumors to the contrary that are sure to spread, it wasn't a last-minute decision made by Titan to get the belt off Hart for fear he was leaving. If anything, Hart knowing he was going to lose the title may have been an impetus in his exploring the option of a jump. Apparently WCW offered Hart a guaranteed deal that was substantially more than he had been earning as Intercontinental champ. However after apparently agreeing to the deal, Hart had to back off because he realized his contract with the WWF, which he thought had run out, had rolled over and he couldn't give notice for several more months. However, WCW sources indicate that Hart, who had backed out of the deal as of a few days ago, will be coming in after all in not too many months. Hart was promised that after losing the strap to Mountie at a house show that he would be getting it back at Wrestlemania, even if it meant in a babyface match against Piper. However those are the kind of promises in wrestling that aren't often kept. In this case, since word got out on several wrestling 900 numbers over the weekend (which said that Hart would be starting at the Clash on Tuesday, and I'm sure many people, with Hart not appearing at the Rumble--which was to sell the illness and allow Piper to get the match and the strap; believed that confirmed the reports he was jumping) the plan WCW was attempting, Hart probably isn't in exactly the most favorable political position in the WWF right now as a possible lame duck. As far as similar rumors involving Curt Hennig, first off, he's still months away from returning to the ring to begin with. Second, he just signed a new contract as an announcer with the WWF from what I'm told, although he is long-time friends with Rick Rude (they both grew up together in Robbinsdale, MN) and nearly everyone in wrestling is envious of Rude's contract with WCW (rumored to be $300,000 for working 142 dates).

Comments

  1. Charismatic e-Negro Jef VinsonSeptember 3, 2013 at 8:16 PM

    The IC belt was important?? I mean people genuinely wanted to wear it?

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  2. Jerry Sags wrestled Sam Houston in the dark match of the 91 rumble.and Knobbs replaced Honkey tonk man

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  3. Wasn't the Nasty's match against the Steiner's in October 90? Did they jump right afterwards? I'd always assumed they just used Knobbs as a replacement before they were regulars.


    I remember an old PWI I had that talked about Bret's inevitable jump to WCW - I think it was around this time because I recall it being when he was in the IC title hunt and it was talked about as if it was a done deal. Didn't he try going to WCW before that? Or after that? I remember him saying that Ric Flair was a big fan of his (naturally) and him discussing joining WCW with Flair. I think it was before Flair joined WWF but something tells me he talked to Flair about jumping when he had a bug up his ass in 1993 to...I can't recall the details but there was something to it.


    Wasn't Shawn supposed to jump after WM10? I remember Scott talking about that as if it was a fact but could never find anything else on it.

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  4. If I'm not mistaken, Rumble 92 had Saggs and not Knobs. So there ya go. I'm a big loser for knowing that.

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  5. I knew someone was replacing someone and couldn't remember which it was.

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  6. http://www.softwolves.pp.se/wrestling/wwf/substitutions.html#y01 here's a site with a bunch of replacements and the reasoning

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  7. The stuff with Hart jumping to WCW was after Flair had come and gone. Flair was booking (or at least on the booking committee) at the time, which is why Bret talked to him about it. All that is according to Bret's book anyway, Flair would probably tell a different story.

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  8. I haven't read it in a couple of years, didn't Flair tell him if he ever wanted to leave to give him a call before he left for WCW? That seems familiar. Strange timing since they had problems working together and Bret had to dress him down in the dressing room.

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  9. Some of them are laughable.

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  10. Unbeknownst to Bret, he only need ask and Flair would've dressed himself down for $5.

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  11. You're correct. Sags isn't in for long though.

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  12. That's like a story a grandfather would tell his grandson.

    "I remember when Macho and the Dragon went at it for the Intercontinental title at Wrestlemania."
    Grandson: "The Intercontinental title was on Wrestlemania? Stop teasing Grandpa."

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  13. It's been a while, and Flair never mentioned it in his book, then Flair pretty much whitewashed his entire stint as WCW's head booker.


    But whatever personal feelings Flair and Bret may have had for each other, Flair was probably smart enough to realize that Bret would have been a big 'get' for WCW, and at the time he may have respected Bret as a worker (although he later shit all over him)

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  14. It's an odd mix of kayfabe and 'shoot' reasons. It says that Jack Tunney was responsible for a couple of the decisions.

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  15. Dustin Rhodes made quite a handful of appearances on WWF TV from October '90 through the day of the Rumble. He debuted on a SNME where Dibiase beat him up for refusing his front row seat, did one of those lame 10-minute time limit matches with him on Superstars, and made regular appearances in squashes.

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  16. Did Dustin ever have another match besides that TV match with DiBiase and the Royal Rumble tag match?

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  17. Don't know. but he was certainly active on the house show circuit at the time. I went to a show here in Houston on 10 Aug 1990 where he jobbed to Paul Roma via powerslam. Yes, I remembered the finish...but in my defense, 1) I'm a nerd, and 2) it was 3 days before my 12th birthday and we went as an early birthday present.

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  18. 'Over the Edge 1999-
    Owen Hart, as the Blue Blazer, fell from the ceiling
    and died as he was making his entrance for his Intercontinental Title shot
    against The Godfather. Godfather was issued no replacement.
    [J]'


    I wonder why Godfather wasn't issued a replacement Owen. Was he out of warranty? -_-

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  19. So had Bret agreed to jump with the belt or was that just what WCW wanted to happen? If so, it makes Vince's actions in Montreal a lot more understandable if Bret had already threatened to jump with one of the WWF's belts once before.

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  20. The nasty boys attacked indie rookie ken shamrock (using a different name then) the weekend of the 92 rumble and knobbs ended up legit hurt by Kenny. That's why he missed that show.

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  21. Of course the grandfather probably also remembers the "tournament" in Rio that crowned Pat Patterson the first Intercontinental Champion...

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  22. It was a balmy, tempestuous night in Brazil, and who are we to say otherwise?

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  23. I just can't over the Rude contract with the amount of dates. I always heard about the minimum dates guys had with WCW but that just seems so unreal. Was WCW just running 2-3 house shows a week during that era?

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  24. The Nasty Boys/Shamrock thing was way before that, when they were all working for SAPW. And it was Shamrock who got the worst of it (keeping in mind it was 2-on-1 and supposedly started with a Nasty Boys cheapshot, at which point any martial arts training is basically out the window).


    Knobbs missed the '92 Rumble because of a stabbing incident, where some fan came across them and IRS in traffic or a parking lot. I don't think Sags was hurt in '91, I think Knobbs was a late sub for somebody else--pretty sure it was Honky Tonk Man actually, who was definitely announced for the show but had quit the company.

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  25. He squashed the Genius on Challenge and had some televised house show bouts.

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  26. There were, I believe, three times when there was "Bret to WCW" noise that didn't come to fruition. Herd apparently wanted to do a lot of Bischoff things in '89--put on a live weekly show, open the books, and attempt a raid on the WWF but concentrating on their best workers. He also had a verbal deal with Roddy Piper before Vince talked him out of it and signed him himself. Anyway, Bret was one of those guys they wanted, and given his apparent frustrations over being stuck in tags, there was probably mutual interest.


    The second time came in late '91/early '92, when WCW wanted to "get back" at the WWF over the Real World Championship thing by putting the reigning IC champion on their television. Again there was mutual interest, but Bret wasn't aware that his contract contained an automatic rollover clause and by the time he was ready to jump, it was too late. It should be noted that all this had NOTHING to do with the Mountie/Piper switch--that turnaround was always the plan, though it certainly may have influenced Bret's decision to jump ship.


    The third of course was in '96 when he was a free agent.

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  27. I mixed them up! Thanks.

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  28. Charismatic e-Negro Jef VinsonSeptember 4, 2013 at 8:26 AM

    Those are the same people that doubt El Dandy.

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  29. I assume it was out of desperation for a big star like him, and that's the only way he'd agree to sign

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  30. Bret in 91-92 WCW would have been boatloads of fun. Imagine intigrating him onto Stings Squadron for the 92 wargames, or doing battle with Vader in his prime..

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  31. So I just helped my mom move to a new place and tore through some old wrestling magazines, including the official program for Royal Rumble '91. So some of this stuff just refreshed in my mind.


    Rumble '91 always featured a hyped surprise participant, which was more than likely supposed to be Andre the Giant, as he was hyped up in the program. The surprise participant ended up being Brian Knobbs. If I remember right, The Nasty Boys hadn't really debuted on TV at the time of the Rumble.



    Honky Tonk Man was scheduled for Rumble '91 as well but Tito Santana ended up in that spot. Playboy Buddy Rose was also shown in the program as a participant (like Greg Valentine's spot) but it was probably an error.



    Both Nasty Boys were originally scheduled for Rumble '92 but Knobbs went out with the injury mentioned earlier and he was replaced by Haku in the match. Marty Jannetty was also supposed to be in Rumble '92 but they did the Barber Shop thing and Nikolai Volkoff replaced him.


    As for Dustin, as was mentioned before he was on TV by late 1990 as even as a little kid I thought he'd be perfect for Million $ Man's mystery partner for Survivor Series '90 against dear old dad and his Dream Team. That Rumble tag match was the Rhodes last match in WWF and they were in WCW by the end of the month.

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