Dear Scott,
Big fan and all that jazz. I was recently thinking about Miz's WWE title reign and the main event of WrestleMania 27 and how weird the whole deal was. I understand they were setting up Rock/Cena. But considering that the role of Miz could've gone to anybody, why did it go to Miz? Right gay in the right time or did WWE brass really think Miz was going to be an A-Lister?
P.S. 20/20 hindsight and all, how perfect would it have been if Punk had been the heel champ against Cena?
I assume you mean right GUY at the right time. Although that would explain a lot...
But yes, they legitimately thought Miz was going to be an A-lister who could get them big mainstream cred and do talk shows with the belt and stuff. To say that it failed spectacularly would be an understatement, but at least they tried.
Boy oh Boy did I hate Wrestlemania 27. Worse: Right before the Miz Cena match got good, they ended it.
ReplyDeleteThe hatred Miz inspires in people is a sight to behold. Truly, X-Pac Heat as a term needs to be replaced by Miz Heat, because if people didn't have that genuine "get off my TV" reaction to him, he'd have been the most over heel in the world when he won the title. Masked Man's latest article did a decent job of kind of explaining why the new Corporation are getting the right kind of heel heat, and it makes it really easy to see why Miz's heat was and is a more genuine distaste.
ReplyDeleteMiz is served best as a tag wrestler. He and Morrison were a bit underrated, IMO
ReplyDeleteI actually was on board with Miz up until Mania 27. He had a really natural old school build up in the year before his MITB win (lengthy US title run, tag titles), hi matches with Bryan were really good, his promos were geting heat and hadn't become repetitive yet, and the gimmick of having Riley as his publicity manager or whatever the hell he called him was pretty good too. Plus I liked the Lawler feud, and that hardcore match he had with Morrison on Raw.
ReplyDeleteBut then Rock came in and it totally killed Miz's heat, because all anyone wanted was Cena vs Rock. Both guys treated Miz like a third wheel and Miz went from a new guy who was building some good heat into a guy that fans desperately wanted to get out of the way.
Then Miz and Cena had one of if not the absolute WORST Mania main events of all-time, and Cena squashed him the next few months, and they broke Riley off from him way too early, and well that was that. Miz has been a lost cause ever since.
So what I'm saying is that I personally agree— right now Miz is one of the first guys I'd vote for in terms of never appearing on WWE TV again— he's just become absolutely horrible in every single way. But I do think there was a period where he could have ben something special, but the booking really fucked it up (and it turned out Miz himself was way too limited anyway).
"Legitimately thought" it but then put him immediately in a feud with Lawler? While not defending Miz, because I think they went way too far, way too fast with him, that was still stupid booking. Not only put him with Lawler, but have him need Cole's help on multiple occasions to beat Jerry?
ReplyDeleteI know they have a crappy rep for booking interesting heels lately but if you can't put your champ over a 60+ year old King strong, you're doing it wrong.
And again, not that Miz deserved the moon, but he had a love for the sport and actually was decent with the media stuff (the BS Report after he won was a fun listen).
Definitely a "worst Mania of all-time" candidate. Edge-ADR, Cody-Rey, and especially Punk-Orton were all very good, but none of them classics. HHH-Taker was what it was— chair shots and ten minute sell jobs, but lots of people loved it.
ReplyDeleteBut Cena-Miz and Cole-Lawler and The Rock's overall involvement were the big selling points that year and all of those were just fucking TERRIBLE. Like unwatchable bad, and also incredibly poorly booked.
In retrospect, they should have just had Cena win the title that night and have Rock lay him out AFTER the match. I mean, Miz was jobbing out the next month anyway so what was even the point of having Cena lose at Mania anyway? The Miz win would have only made sense if he was gonna get to keep the belt for awhile afterwards.
His face turn was miserable. It goes back to the 1995 way of booking where they forced you to cheer/boo a guy. WRESTLING GARBAGEMAN? CHEER HIM...GIANT ASSHOLE THAT YOU HAVE BOOED FOR NEARLY A DECADE...NOW YOU CHEER FOR HIM
ReplyDeleteI wonder if a heel turn could save Miz. Someone on the board mentioned it before, but having Miz run into the ring during a Shield-on-Bryan beatdown and then having Miz help beat down Bryan, well that would get huge heel heat. Not sure that Miz is even talented enough to stay interesting, but his stupid duckface and lame jokes are at least suited better to being a heel than a face. They might as well try it.
ReplyDeleteI said it previously but it bears repeating since its kinda interesting... they claimed on the place to be pod there were serious discussions of trying to get Rock to wrestle 27 and hot shot Rock/Cena to 27 and go with that and Miz/Morrison as the top two matches at 27. Dont know if I believe this considering how planned out Rocks run seemed to be but its interesting to think about how it would have changed everything.
ReplyDeleteGreat post. They did a great job of building him up and then treated him like a lame duck, third wheel, whatever you want to call it.
ReplyDeleteHe was still good in Awesome Truth until it was apparent that the company used them as a short-term booking tool to get to Rock-Cena.
It's impossible to say in retrospect that they did anything wrong with the Rock-Cena booking, considering they broke their PPV record at Mania 28 with the 1.3 million buys and all... but man, that Rock-Cena feud seemed SO much hotter before Mania 27 than it did a year later.
ReplyDeleteBut damn, they really did milk it perfectly business-wise. They got 1.1 million buys just from Rock HOSTING a Mania, which is insane. (Remember, the buyrate for Mania 26 had dipped to like 800,000 or something— had they not gotten Rock for Mania 27, that show probably would have been a buyrate disaster.) Then they broke the record for the first match, and did a big number for the rematch.
In the end, gotta give Vince (and Rock & Cena) credit for one of the most smartly executed booking plans in wrestling history.
Even Punk mentioned on his DVD that it pissed him off that the best heel at the time (himself) didn't get to main event Wrestlemania with Cena. That would be the best match possible at the time for WM with that roster, though WWE wasn't that much into Punk in early 2011 and we wouldn't have gotten MITB 11.
ReplyDeleteYoure so correct. They booked the Rock so well in the build to 27 and got a huge buyrate just on Rock hosting and perhaps the worst main event in WM history. They worked it perfectly businesswise. I can say that I hated the build for 28 but it was the main event for the highest drawing PPV ever so who am I to second guess that.
ReplyDeleteGood god, Cole vs Lawler is easily one of the worst matches ever, even beating the 48 minutes Bret Hart hit Vince with a chair.
ReplyDeleteYeah, Awesome Truth was definitely Miz's last "shining moment" and probably his best chance to regain heat, but everything about Sept-Nov 2011 was such a disaster. Awesome Truth needed to go into SS with the tag titles at least, and beat down Cena and Rock in a parking lot or something. (I think the last Raw before SS was Rock/Cena beating the shit out of Awesome Truth and then staring eachother down.) But yeah, they were pretty much portrayed as a jobber team heading into that match.
ReplyDeleteThat's just silly.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I too hated that Mania 28 Rock/Cena build, but honestly I loved the actual match. (And the event itself— thought Mania 28 was awesome.) That moment when the crowd goes nuts for the opening bell ringing was great— everything in that moment felt like a huge deal.
ReplyDeleteThere is no truth to this.
ReplyDeleteIt's so nuts how poorly booked the Cole/Lawler and Bret/Vince matches were! They seemed like such slam dunks. Both should have been super quick fun squashes, without even a heel heat segment.
ReplyDeleteBret/Vince should have been a few punches, chairshot, sharpshooter and go home. Cole-Lawler should have been Cole begging off, Swagger trying to get involved, Austin stunners Swagger, and then Cole eats some punches, fist drop, and a PILEDRIVER and go home. Neither of those needed to eat 30 minutes of PPV time apiece! Fans would have been very happy with quick babyface squashes. Less is more.
And HHH got to beat them up as well.
ReplyDeleteWas repeating what they said. I find it hard Rock could get into ring shape in 6 months
ReplyDeleteI was there for 27. Good God that match just sucked.
ReplyDeleteYou're right on Cole v. King being easy to book. King kills him for a minute, Swagger runs interference and they take out Austin. Swagger and Cole put the boots to King. Cole locks in an anklelock with Swagger cheerleading, Austin sneaks back in and stuns Swagger, Cole turns around, stunner to Cole, fist drop, done in 10 minutes.
With Bret v. Vince, I think they should've done Cena/Hitman v. Vince/Batista if Bret really couldn't bump. Even so, you just have guys run in for Vince and take Bret out, The Hart Dynasty comes in and cleans house, Vince turns around, Bret kills him, Hart Attack on the outside, Sharpshooter, done.
Bret v. Vince depressed me
Awesome Truth went over HHH/Punk.
ReplyDeleteI was reading WONs at the time and there was nothing about Rock v. Cena/Morrison v. Miz.
ReplyDeleteI'll tell you how much I hated Cole/Lawler: I forgot Austin was even involved.
ReplyDeleteCompletely disagree - while he definitely started out with "X-Pac Heat", he really grew in his role between 2007 and 2009, to the point he was getting face pops in 2010 for his "MITB" win and cash-in. Later on, in 2011, he got the biggest pops of anybody in Raw "MITB" match, and the fans were split about 50/50 when he faced Rey for the vacated WWE Title a few weeks later (when they did the mini-tournament after Punk left with the title). Let's not forget that "Awesome Truth" was over, as well.
ReplyDeleteIt was really only his early, "Host of Smackdown", "Hoo-Rah" days that most of the audience had true distain for him. Of course, his face run has been awful, and I'm inclined to believe that his current persona has some degree of "X-Pac Heat" to it, but certainly not for most of his heel run.
Sure, he's not on Rock's or Cena's level, and I don't really think it's fair to say that because he was the third-wheel in the Rock/Cena build means that he has "X-Pac Heat". No, he just wasn't a main-eventer. As a mid-card heel, though, he's always been over, to the point where turning him face was almost a no-brainer - the fact that he/they never changed his persona, and the awful booking (Next Ric Flair???) surrounding him, is besides the point.
To give a comparison, I think his run at the top would be like if Damien Sandow main-evented "WrestleMania" next year; I think most people like Sandow and respect his ability, but he's not at that level (yet, at least). That doesn't mean that Sandow sucks or genuinely bores the audience.
So true about that September-November 2011 period. If you got through that period, you can get through anything.
ReplyDeleteI think a heel turn and sliding with HHH would make sense for The Miz. As Scott said, it's obvious the Power that be gave him a huge push because of his mainstream and talk show appeal. Well, duh: here's how they should promote him as a part of this new Corporation: the hand-picked reality tv star who gets pushed because he's connected with talk show hosts. It would be coherent with the whole "let's use real-life perceptions to get heat on Orton and HHH" that has been going on. Grantland's piece on the subjets is awesome, btw.
ReplyDeleteyup amen to that, and then for the follow up at WM 29 had a dead silent crowd.
ReplyDeleteThe crowd seemed into it where I was sitting. I think it's just the Giants Stadium acoustics.
ReplyDeletei believe you but it's just so weird how sometimes stadiums can get loud and then othertimes seem dead quiet.
ReplyDeleteWhat an "awesome" moment when Flair gave Miz the Figure Four.
ReplyDeleteMiz was actually on a pretty good hot streak prior to winning the belt. Honestly, he was a breathe of fresh air when he got pushed to the main event. The problem was putting him in a feud with Lawler. Killed any momentum he had.
ReplyDelete27 should haven been Cena/Taker, Miz/Morrison for the title. and HHH/Sheamus 2.
ReplyDeleteMorrison looked like a future star at points that year. Thought he was gonna get the proverbial rocket push after that royal rumble performance
ReplyDeleteIf they have Miz side with the corporation due to the reality thing then they should have at least one Bella join as well.
ReplyDeleteDBry's girl going heel and joining HHH would get all types of sympathy for DBry.
To be fair, him going after Orton made more sense in terms of his character at the time going after people and settling old scores.
ReplyDeleteSix weeks? He had two years and he was never in ring shape. Was there a comeback match that Rock WASN'T gassed in?
ReplyDeleteWould make more sense to have AJ join the corporation and slowly do the inevitable adultery angle: HHH fucks AJ and makes Steph humiliate herself for his and his psycho mistress in order to set up Steph vs AJ at Mania.....
ReplyDeleteMiz was kind of doing a precursor to the punk promo by talking some real shit about cena/wwe in his post tag team promos. He was great with Morrison too. I think he was worthy of the main event push, he just failed miserably (no pun) when he got there. And boy he sucks as a face.
ReplyDeleteIbooked it different: Lawler gets Swagger if he wins he gets Cole in HiaC for 10 minutes. Lawler loses Cole gets the HoF ring.
ReplyDeleteSwagger beats the shit out of Lawler which causes good ol' JR to come down to cheer King on. King wins with a roll up. They drop the cage and Cole jumps on Lawler and gets 10 seconds of offense. King drops the strap and for 4:50 he beats the brakes off Cole. I mean running him into the cage and giving him the cheese grater action until he's busted openat and at least THREE piledrivers (one on the chair).
He goes to leave the cage and Swagger blocks the door. Lawler hits him with a fireball and he walks out. Cole is taken off on a stretcher and is odd TV for 3 weeks. He comes back in a neckbrace.
Made sense, but switching the existing Cena/Punk and Orton/Miz feuds at the time felt very random; it just seemed to happen one night for no reason. The other issue is that we had already gotten several Cena/Punk matches on "Raw" in early 2011 (when Punk took over "Nexus"), so a WM main-event between the two probably didn't seem as fresh.
ReplyDeleteCena/Punk would have been the way to go, and I didn't like how they got there, but I can understand why they didn't. In retrospect, it worked out (we likely wouldn't have gotten the "Pipebomb" a few months later, and WM27 was pretty much just an infomercial for WM28, anyway), but it was a bumpy road getting from Point A to Point B.
I think Steph vs. AJ happens at Wrestlemania but with AJ as the face. Having DBry humiliated just seems like something HHH would book.
ReplyDeleteI think the other issue is that WWE has several different "levels" of being a main-eventer - for instance, Jack Swagger just "main-evented" WM against Del Rio. Miz feuding with guys like Morrison, Kofi, and Bryan for the belt wouldn't have felt out of place, but putting him next to Rock certainly did him no favors.
ReplyDeleteI think they were trying to mimic the previous "breath of fresh air" champion's path, Edge. It looked like they were trying to replicate the dynamic of the Edge-Flair feud while prolonging Miz's reign to make him more credible against Cena.
ReplyDeleteWhile I doubt they would have been able to hotshot Rock/Cena, Miz/Morrison for the title certainly seemed to be the smart move - Cena could have gone after the opposite title, with Rock costing him the match.
ReplyDeleteLawler... What were they thinking?
ReplyDeleteI understand that the first Rock/Cena match did a monster buy-rate, but I still don't understand why they booked the rematch; surely Rock in a FRESH match-up would have done even better, no?
ReplyDeleteI really think they should have held out on Rock/Punk until "WM29".
Yea, however they could have gotten there. Miz/Morrison was an over feud that needed a good payoff.
ReplyDeleteYeah, it should have been Cena-Bret/Batista-Vince. There was no need to do Cena/Batista for the title, they could have added the title to the Taker/Shawn match (just to up the ante that much more), with Jericho/Edge remaining the other title match.
ReplyDeleteThat Raw match where Miz dropped Truth off a dive attempt pretty much ruined his career. It's been all downhill from there.
ReplyDelete2010 was one of the worst years in WWE history.
ReplyDeleteBasically he was on MTV Real World and when Vince heard that he jizzed in his pants. What I don't get is that he is still featured fairly prominently when clearly the Miz experiment has failed. Personally I don't mind him as a heel (NOT at the top of the card though) but as a face there isn't another wrestler I want to punch more in the face
ReplyDeleteMy email by the way, (Surprised nobody got the Hogan gaffe) and this is exactly my point. Punk facing Cena to END the Nexus deal, then setting up his face turn and the Original Pipebomb Promo. Also leading into the Rock/Punk feud and heel turn.
ReplyDeleteI mean, I guess it worked out fine from a perspective of "I was put aside of the Miz and the Rock" but I would've preferred "I was ignored by Cena and the Rock, I am not a joke, I am a contender".
P.S. I would've paid-off Miz/Orton at WrestleMania. Then have Orton drop the belt to Cena at Extreme rules or something.
None of those Punk/Cena matches ended cleanly. And Punk had won all of them.
ReplyDeleteNot really. I actually don't mind him and think his rise up the card was handled well. But people just fucking hate the guy. Whereas with Orton and HHH right now its a "fuck those characters, I wanna see Bryan beat them", there was none of that with Miz. Just a general simmering bad taste. I don't even share that hatred of him, but its there, and its not because of any dastardly things he did in storylines.
ReplyDeleteMoreso the "season" between 26 and 27. Because January through Mania 26 were pretty great IMO.
ReplyDeleteSee, I think Miz's ceiling is really just as a chicken-shit IC champ like the Honky Tonk Man. He can do his promos (if anything, he can talk) and just bump around for the babyfaces. And when his in-ring career ends, Miz can transition to managing and speak for hosses and whatever.
ReplyDeleteI think he can be an asset but not a top player. Then again, he's still young...who knows? A few years ago, Mark Henry was a joke...and now we all enjoy him for the most part.
Yeah, that's more fair. I'd actually say Mania 26 through July of 2011 though.
ReplyDeleteYeah...nothing really sets up a world champ for the Road to Wrestlemania than feuding with a pudgy, sixty-something announcer/Hall of Famer.
ReplyDeleteThat's the thing with wrestling. You can't get into shape by running on a treadmill. You gotta work matches to work the rust off.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure an announcer feud ruined any chance the Raven character had of being a big deal in WWF.
ReplyDeleteTo anyone who says Miz isn't capable of occasional greatness (when they let him be HIMSELF that is), I give you...
ReplyDeletehttp://assets.sbnation.com/assets/3077525/miz.gif
The snarkiest of smarks lol'd at that where we were watching the show.
It depends on your criteria of failing. Like Scott said they thought he could be an A-lister who could work the media, do talk shows, sign autographs for fans, hang out with sick kids and be that guy. And...he did all that. In fact all reports you'll find say that he was really really good at that. Without a touch of hyperbole, behind Cena and HHH, Miz might be the best guy in whole company at doing that part of promotion (it should be noted that Sheamus is also pretty good at that whole thing also).
ReplyDeleteHis problem is that he's a bad wrestler. I don't think he's had a single **** or better match and given his limitations, he may just not be capable of that (possible considerations, Miz vs. Morrison falls count anywhere and Miz/Morrison/Bryan 3 way. Both were quite good but I didn't have either of them getting there). And normally that's OK, ring work isn't everything. But in this environment when literally everyone in the top main event scene (Cena, Punk, Bryan, Sheamus, Orton) is a high quality worker he clearly doesn't belong at this point in time.
The problem (outside of his weak ring work) is the booking. Everything from his mania match build on up was just terrible. The build of his mania match was "CENA vs. ROCK!!! MAYBE ROCK WILL PUNCH CENA!!!" He literally had to cut a promo the week before mania saying he wasn't an afterthought. Which told the crowd, yes he is. They cut Riley off from him and used Miz's heat to let Riley get over. It worked, he got Riley over. He did a really good job in that angle. Once Riley got away from Miz, his career as an in ring guy basically ended. He had nothing on his own, he just leeched Miz's heat. The company depended too much on Miz being able to get his heat back with his mouth; he went literally something like 6 months without winning a match on PPV or TV. That's ridiculous. They did that to Jericho and Punk all the time but they could work in the ring and stay threatening. Miz wasn't Jericho or Punk, he needed to win matches to stay threatening since his work couldn't hold up on its own. And yeah, maybe it's his fault that he sucks but it's also WWE's fault for not protecting someone that they spent all these promotional resources on.
Then they decided to "punish" him and Truth for that Survivor Series match not drawing when they neutered them completely in the buildup. He was already rocking an obscene losing streak before that point and then they punished him for a few months just to make up for that. And that basically pushed him back to midcard for life status.
I think people would be more apt to recognize just how hard he's been screwed by the company if he was a better worker but really it's pretty amazing how hard he got kicked in the nuts by WWE. Despite what revisionist history will say his act was super over while he was holding the briefcase. They had a chance to make something of him long term and blew it.
If Punk main events Mania 27, there is no pipe bomb. You are threatening the space time conitnuum.
ReplyDeleteMiz was another sad attempt at mainstream attention. I agree with cultstatus, they need to get Tim Tebow. I would send Vince and Shawn Michaels to blow some smoke up his ass, pay him, and have the best (Steamboat, Austin) train him in Florida. They could call him Tim "Christian Warrior" Tebow.
ReplyDeleteAnd Taz... and Gregory Helms... and Muhammad Hassan...
ReplyDeleteYea, it's also where you're sitting. I've heard people say the crowd was into HHH v. Brock, and where I was, no one gave a shit. It sucked.
ReplyDeleteOh, I'm not suggesting that Punk COULDN'T have cut a similar promo, but part of what made that work so well was that he had been pushed down the card for a few months beforehand. Remember, he was tagging with Mason friggin' Ryan at the time; it still would have been an incredible promo, it's Punk after all, but it would lose a bit of gravitas if it came soon after having headlined WrestleMania.
ReplyDeleteI put the title on the line in HHH v. Sheamus. Sheamus ended up getting the belt back a few months later anyway.
ReplyDeleteWhy not have him beat HHH at Mania to really cement him and then he kills HHH again at Extreme Rules. You can do a multi-man match with Batista and Cena at Over The Limit, and then do the same thing at Fatal Four Way and MITB with Nexus.
That works, too - point was, I just think that a Cena/Batista title program wasn't needed, with both being put to better use helping Vince/Bret.
ReplyDeleteSee, I don't understand why WWE holds on to guys in this situation. You are pissed at the guy, you KNOW you aren't gonna push him, why wast the roster slot? They did the same thing with D-Lo after the Droz incident for awhile.
ReplyDeletePeople can't get over the fact he came from reality TV, so virtually no blame goes to WWE for Miz failing when it takes two to tango.
ReplyDeleteAgreed on that.
ReplyDeleteI think anyone would love be the right gay for John Cena. And by "gay" I mean happy because of the wonderful Mania pay day.
ReplyDeleteWhat?
Dude, go back and watch that match. The video promo is all about HHH. HHH and Punk dominate the majority of the match. They only lose because Kevin Nash interferes and who eats the pin? Punk.
ReplyDeleteThey didn't go over anyone.
I always wondered if there was supposed to be more to that match. When Cena dumped Miz over the side during the double countout part of that match, Miz took a header and was legitimately concussed and supposedly didn't even know where he was at that point. I always wondered if they called an audible and just ended the match because he couldn't go anymore or if someone booked that match thinking that ending would be an acceptable way to end Wrestlemania.
ReplyDeleteI'll give you that.
ReplyDeleteBut I think that Punk had more to him than just "I didn't get the shot I deserve". After all, cutting a promo about how even though he beat John Cena (which he did before MiTB) he still wasn't treated like a Cena or a Rock.
And honestly, I think the hypocrisy of Cena-favoritism is more interesting and compelling than "I didn't get my shot". Because it works better in a kayfabe sense. After all, SD Jones never got his shot at the main-event either, and honestly in 2010 Punk had the win/loss record of Barry Horowitz.
But if you're the champ who gets treated worse than celebrities, you can bitch about that without any of the kayfabe bending shit.
If Punk got treated the same way Miz got treated...I think there definitely is material for a pipebomb.
ReplyDeleteI will never understand how "Mtv reality guy" equated to superstardom in Vince's eyes. Miz could have been fine as an IC level heel. And the problem with the "good ambassador" thing is that he is sso much better suited to being a snobbish, jersey shore douchebag. The role of kissing sick babies and cross-promoting on tv shows, ala Cena, doesn't fit a guy who is probably best suited playing a Honky Tonk Man midcard heel.
ReplyDeleteApparently he was working matches...
ReplyDelete...with Curtis Axel.
Hey, they had to keep Triple H strong for the epic ladder match with Kevin Nash...
ReplyDeleteI can't even type that with a straighte face.
That match sucked. But they went over Punk and HHH and were seen as being powerful enough that HHH's power was totally usurped and the roster walked out on him.
ReplyDeleteThis is going to sound like trolling, but Miz does a BETTER figure four than Ric Flair.
ReplyDeleteYou're right, it does sound like trolling.
ReplyDeleteI could see it if Miz just weren't such a terrible wrestler. His offense is the worst I've ever seen.
ReplyDeleteThey were a plot device.
ReplyDeleteOr they just decided to cut bait on miz but either way Vince's booking of miz post wm27 screamed jobber, and that was the nail in the coffin. I actually liked miz when he was on rwrr challenge and became a fan for a bit (especially when he got into the anti cena shit way before he ever won mitb) but he's not good in the ring and I have a tough time with him as a face, and the flair thing just felt kind of pathetic.
ReplyDeleteIt doesn't necessarily sound like you're trolling. It just sounds like you're wrong.
ReplyDeleteIt just sounds like you don't know what you're talking about. Ric Flair's morning shit could probably do a better Figure Four than the Miz.
ReplyDeleteYeah, that iconic hall of famer. What does he know. It's not like he's ever been in a great feud or anything...
ReplyDeleteOh please.
ReplyDeleteYou can't possibly be serious. Harley Race is an 8 time world champion. Doesn't mean he should be feuding with the world champ today.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, x-pac heat is just a silly smark concept. It is ridiculous to think you can tell the difference between kinds of boos. Second, Miz was completely over as a heel as people wanted to see him get his ass kicked. When he teased a face turn originally, fans were behind him. Then they didn't turn him, then when they did turn him they had him be terrible.
ReplyDeleteI thought Miz would have been the perfect foil for CM Punk after he won the WWE title in 2011 the second time, as Punk is not "the coprorate guy" who does all those appearances but Miz is *SUCH* a horrible wrestler. I used to think he could get there but you're right, after Survivor Series 11 and everything else he's just too damaged to every recover as a threatening character, and he's not developing anymore as a wrestler, either (he should spend six months at the new training center and relearn how to work... I mean DDP became a good wrestler at 36 so anything is possible).
ReplyDeleteBut yeah, he was over when he held the briefcase and won the belt (MIZ GIRL!) but it was all downhill from there.
I feel like he's gonna turn heel and become a corporate suckup/lackey to HHH and that's gonna be just fine.
ReplyDeleteBecause he could go to TNA and they could make him world champion? In this case, Miz is a guy with name recognition from the MTV stuff, he can probably get through doors that TNA Champion Bully Ray can't, and that could give TNA some real exposure.
ReplyDeleteNot saying that would happen, it probably wouldn't. But it could. Maybe.
Miz/Morrison could have headlined the Rumble, not Wrestlemania.
ReplyDeleteYou were sitting with the right people.
ReplyDeleteI think the walk-out was before Awesome Truth went over Punk/HHH.
ReplyDeleteI love your gimmick.
ReplyDeleteI was thinking HHH should assign Brie to be in Orton's corner for Night of Champions.
ReplyDeleteTo be fair, Miz got a concussion right when he got dumped over the top, so that tends to impact the quality of the match.
ReplyDeleteLawler pildriving Cole and Cole bouncing 10 feet in the air. That's all that match needed to be.
ReplyDeleteI think the Cena/Batista title program needed to happen because, they both came up together and Batista was leaving, so it was basically then or never.
ReplyDeleteIt also seemed like there was 1/2 hour of nonsense between every match. Moreso than usual. And also Edge/ADR wasn't that good.
ReplyDeleteI kind of agree, because once you're in the smark mindset you're necessarily going to think "fuck this guy" rather than "hope this guy loses". But X-Pac wasn't connecting with anyone doing story-devoid matches where he went over Jericho every goddamn week (which is where it came from, I liked him a lot prior to that) and Miz was just coming out and bragging about being awesome while seeming paranoid and out of his league. Those are not thing that inspire dripping vitriol from fans, because there is no logical connection. Its just personal distaste of that person & their talents. I like Miz well enough too, its okay. But if the comments around here aren't clear enough, people hate him in a way that defies storyline reasoning.
ReplyDelete*slow clap*
ReplyDeleteDude, I LOVE this idea. I think theres a good chance the fans would shit on him, like Kurt Angle. Can you picture a heel Tebow? Book it!
ReplyDeleteOh Jesus, the "Rock meets Pee Wee" and "Khali American Idol" sketches on a fucking Wrestlemana. Holy fuck that was bad.
ReplyDeleteI remember liking Edge-ADr that night, but haven't watched it again since and never will, so there's that. I definitely think that's another booking mistake that has always held ADR down— he 100% should have won the WHC that night. If Del Rio taps out Edge at Mania to win the WHC and effectively ends Edge's career— that's the kind of thing Del Rio would still be getting mileage out of today. He could have STILL dropped the title to Christian the next month.
Basically, the results in the two title matches should have been reversed.
Eh, I think Cena vs Batista one-on-one was the smart move, for both box office and match quality. I mean, those were the two biggest stars of that generation facing off for the first time at a Mania. It deserved to be straight up for the WWE title. And honestly, Bret just wasn't a big enough deal at that time to warrant being in such a high profile match Mania with Cena & Batista. Call it blashphemous, but a tag match with Bret Hart is a waste of John Cena's star power at Mania. Bret being in the midcard special attraction match with Vince was exactly where he needed to be— the only problem was it should have been a 2-minute squash.
ReplyDeleteMy big problem with Cena-Batista that year was how much they rushed into it. I mean, it was afeud that started out of nowhere at the Elimination Chamber. That's an AWFUL way to book a dream match between that level of stars.
If I'm re-booking the build to Mania 26, I would have A) Never given Sheamus that bullshit run. He should have had some wars with cena but Cena never drops the title there. B) Batista wins the Royal Rumble to set up his shot against Cena at Mania.
So with Edge not winning the Rumble, I'd have put the tag belts back on JeriShow and done a huge Edge & Christian vs Jerishow tag title match at Mania.
And lastly, let Taker go into Mania with the WHC, HBK wins a Chamber for the title shot, and it's HBK vs Taker with career vs streak for the WHC. (Even though HBK had earned the match, he could say that without this win his career would be over anyway.)
Anyway, boom.
From everything I hear, TNA is not anything that keeps Vince up at nights. And I've said it before, the best thing they could do is release Orton and Miz and let TNA piss away what little money they have left on them.
ReplyDeleteHe might not keep tabs on them, but he knows they exist.
ReplyDeleteIt wouldn't have headlined WM, Cena/Taker would have.
ReplyDeleteMark Henry won the World Heavyweight Title in September of 2011. It wasn't a total loss.
ReplyDeleteWell, The Nexus angle started off promising.
ReplyDeleteThey messed up breaking up Awesome Truth. Both guys are perfectly suited to heel tag teaming.
ReplyDeleteI agree. Miz would be fine as the mouthy douchebag who we want to see get his ass kicked.
ReplyDeleteThat could be an ingenius way to ruin a promotion. Pick a company guy as your mole, "release" him, let TNA spend everything to pick him up, watch the promotion die, and hire back the mole.
ReplyDeleteThe Bushwhackers would like a word
ReplyDeleteWhen you are lacking in ring ability, you need to do more to engage the crowd during your fights. This is where the Miz fails as a good guy, because his act is just the same as when he was a villain. No one is going to cheer for a corny jerk no matter how many times the WWE wants to prop him up as a spokesperson for the mainstream media.
ReplyDeleteThe guy works hard and doesn't complain though, and that is enough reason the WWE still keeps him around. He has come a long way starting off as someone with absolutely no wrestling background. Miz is also lucky he's had the benefit to learn from a skilled and professional worker like Al Snow.
This honestly one of the dumbest things ever said. Worse than Khali. Worse than Sandman. Worse than Yokozuna. Worse than Nu Jack. Worse than Nichole Bass. Worse than The Cat. Worse than Ernest Miller. Give me a break.
ReplyDeleteBy "no wrestling background", do you mean amateur wrestling? Because he had pro training and started in the indies (pretty much right alongside Cena on both counts) before doing "Tough Enough".
ReplyDeleteTo everybody disagreeing, does nobody remember the joke about how Flair always applied it to the wrong leg? The STRAIGHT leg is the damaged leg.
ReplyDeleteAgreed - he kept making great strides as a worker up until he won the title, and then he just seemed to stop trying. Laziness, conceitedness, burn-out, exhaustion, I don't know what the reason was, but it was very noticeable.
ReplyDeleteHave to disagree - if Hogan, Angle, and Jeff Hardy (not to mention guys like Pacman Jones, Rampage Jackson, or Tito Ortiz) couldn't do it, no way Miz could.
ReplyDeleteNo offense to Lawler, who obviously has had a great career. Just not at sixty.
ReplyDeleteTo both you and JVC113, I just think the aura of the match was killed since it had been given away a year-and-a-half earlier. That, and (as said) the build was terrible, both times.
ReplyDeleteI still think the tag match would have been the way to go, with Cena and Batista doing most of the work and still providing great chemistry together, with Vince adding the story work and Bret getting the happy ending.
One other thing that hasn't been mentioned yet: not only was Miz constantly improving at that point and getting face pops, but he had also just come off a really strong showing as basically the star of "NXT". Seriously, that first season was pretty much built solely around Miz helping to get Bryan immediately over (giving Barrett exposure was the other big goal), and he did a phenomenal job.
ReplyDeleteHell, Miz was so good that he was the only "Pro" that was brought back for the second season.
Miz in 2010 was friggin' awesome to watch. I really miss his heel character.
That, and when he puts actual torque on it, it looks painful. I mean just look at this:
ReplyDeletehttp://3.bp.blogspot.com/-uIoyShhxB6M/UWTNov5-PDI/AAAAAAAAEUE/zWMidm7TwRU/s320/IMG_0200.JPG
Until they killed it deader than Cory Montieth in a Vancouver hotel room by having Santino Marella run them out of the ring just one week later.
ReplyDeleteYeah but he was already on TV way before he started doing scripted fighting. I still remember him as 'The Miz' when he was on The Real World
ReplyDeleteI was a fan for a week. As soon as they dropped Bryan I had lost all interest.
ReplyDeleteI gotta disagree, though I will say that Flair's figure four looked shitty too, just not that shitty. And even when it's done right (like when Adam Cole does it), it still looks fake and business exposing. That's another move that should be retired.
ReplyDeleteYes. Miz is small and he's out there trying to throw stiff kicks like he's Test or something. It's not believeable. His DDT when the guy is on his knees looks stupid. Most of what he does in the ring does not look believable. His finisher involves using a full nelson and he can't even do that properly. All of the guys you list at least do moves that I could reasonably believe they should be doing in a fight. Khali is 8 feet tall so he chops guys in the head. That makes SENSE. Sandman has a solid finish in the DDT. And Yokozuna was a good wrestler. His Wrestlemania main events were better than The Miz's, at any rate.
ReplyDeleteAnd what the fuck does, "This honestly one of the dumbest things ever said" mean? That IS honestly one of the dumbest things I've ever read.
Ridiculous.
ReplyDeleteYou are, but that's okay. You're never going to learn unless you are exposed to people smarter than you. Like me.
ReplyDeleteThe DB/Miz matches are really underrated. I love those things.
ReplyDeleteI'll keep saying what I"ve been saying: put Awesome Truth back together. I mean, what do you have to lose at this point with both guys languishing?
ReplyDeleteThey booked him to almost beat Miz in the match. He was Cole interference from the title. That doesn't help your current champ.
ReplyDeletePish-posh.
ReplyDeleteTo be fair, how is that any different than Bryan (or Tajiri) being small and throwing stiff kicks?
ReplyDeleteI mean, yes, Bryan and Tajiri are obviously much more talented, but I don't get the criticism of a small guy using brawling tactics.
I'll follow the same line of thought, and mention that Natalya does a better "Sharpshooter" than The Rock, Kaitlyn does a better Spear than Edge, and Fandango does a better Legdrop than Hulk Hogan.
ReplyDeleteTrolling, maybe, but it's true.
Yup - they killed that angle one week after it started.
ReplyDeleteBang on, on every count. It's scarcely believable now, but if you go back and watch his cash in, when his music hits there is a fucking massive face pop. Actual excitement that Miz is potentially/probably about to win the big one, exhibited by a significant portion of the audience. It's borderline unfathomable.
ReplyDeleteI'm almost tempted to feel sympathy for The Miz, because the title reign was handled pretty badly (a feud with a commentator, barely a single clean victory over a strong opponent in his whole six month reign, etc.) and he was the victim of some seriously ass backward booking in the run up to WM 27, and he's now jerking the curtain on YouTube only pre-PPV spots and frequently jobbing on TV. On the other hand, his act is absolutely unbearable and his matches are atrocious...