This interview was filmed in the beginning of 2007. It runs at two hours and twenty seven minutes long. This was the first installment of the "Face Off" series.
The interview starts with a graphic honoring Doug Gentry, who passed away prior to this filming. Gentry worked for RF Video and was responsible for filming the ECW FanCam footage
The interview starts with the food delivery arriving and the first few minutes are disorganized as the give the delivery guy instructions.
Raven asks Honky about him refusing to drop the Intercontinental Title and everything else that happened afterwards as a result. Honky said that Vince was worried because he already spoke with Jim Barnett of the NWA, who told him to not drop the belt on TV. He said he and Randy never had a problem over what happened, as he understood it was business, then said that Randy actually thanked him at one point due to receiving the World Heavyweight Title as a result. Honky goes through what was told to him after he got word from the office they wanted him to drop the belt, stating that he was told he was getting "rebuilt," which he believed was back to the opening matches against guys like Lanny Poffo, S.D. Jones, and Pedro Morales and how that would greatly lower his income as he was just starting to make money when he was selling out the "B" shows. He confirms that DiBiase was promised the World Heavyweight Title and a feud with Hogan. He then says how he went to Vince and asked him to keep him strong on TV for a while and give him a chance to get over and make a little bit of money and if he failed, he would gladly do whatever Vince wanted.
Still on this topic, Raven goes into how back then, they had job guys to put over the stars and that the stars never did the job clean on TV and would wrestle the other stars at house shows and make money that way, which is not the case today. Honky adds that the contracts were not guaranteed then like they are today. He also says that back then, there were other places to go work unlike today. Honky also states that Vince respected him for standing up for himself.
Honky is asked by Raven about his costumes. He tells him that the ones he uses for independents is $3,500 and the one for special occasions and signings was $10,000. Honky talks about how the guys today all look cookie-cutter but that people recognize him due to his costume. He brings up how he talked to Jimmy Hart a few days ago and how the red and yellow color scheme always draws attention and was first used by Barnum and Bailey Circus before Hulk Hogan, adding that those colors always works. Raven talks about young guys not wanting to spend money on their look yet wait around for the office to give them a push. They both say how you will not make it if you do not try to set yourself apart from everyone else.
Honky talks about going to the WCW Powerplant when that was running and how all the young guys were sleeping on the floor instead of watching matches ot listening to advice. He goes on about how he drove 400 miles in a small car with other guys when he first started and did not get guaranteed money or even get plane fare to a training school. Raven says that Steve Keirn gave him the best advice when he first started and that was watch as much wrestling as you can. He then adds that you can do as many moves as you want but it doesnt mean shit if you cant sell tickets. Honky said that he asked Johnny Rodz if any of he guys he trained ever come back to train and he said no one does as soon as they get their first booking. Honky said when he first started, he would book himself on the weekends and go back and train twice a week for about nine months. Raven said you have to eat, sleep, and breath wrestling to make it and if you want to be a star or do flips, join the Cirque de Soleil. They then laugh at guys who think Hogan and Lawler cannot work because they do not use highspots in their matches.
They now talk about working the crowd. Honky said that Col. DeBeers told him if they yell boring, take it down a notch as if they are responding, they are paying attention.
Honky is asked about the hardcore stuff they did in Memphis. He said that it was controlled hardcore back then and he worked with guys that he had good chemistry with. Raven said when he got to ECW, Heyman thought that faces and heels were a thing of the past but he said it made it difficult to build a match so he decided to be a heel anway. He told other wrestlers in the company that he was only doing one chair shot in his match and some of them would complain about how others were doing ten at a time and Raven's response was that it doesnt matter what they did as in his match, he can sell one fine. Honky recalls watching a RVD/Sabu match once that contained at least 25 chairshots. Raven also compares to the cruiser matches of today and how they do not sell. He says that today, many guys either no sell or act like they are dead, with nothing in between. Honky goes back to the ECW match he saw and said that he likes both guys and that was how ECW was structured. Raven said that he did less than others, partly due to laziness and drug addiction, but also because he wanted to build drama. Honky says that he tells the guys breaking in today that if you lose control, then the crowd and the match is lost.
Still on the subject, Honky hates table spots due to the lack of control as you have no idea if the table will cut you. Raven said you can have a feel of what you are doing after a while and that is why he uses an elbow drop, instead of a flippy-move that you have no control over. Honky said that a powerbomb through a table is something he hates as when you are taking the move, you have no idea where you are going. He then says that wrestling is entertainment and athletics, not stuntman routines. Raven says that he tells the young guys that he wants to wrestle until he is 50 years old and that the guys he was with in TNA four years ago who did all highspots are now starting to take it down a few notches as they are already beat up. Honky brings up Mick Foley and how after falling off the top of the cage, there was nothing left to do. Raven adds that the fact he was a good talker is what kept him relevant after that.
Raven talks about the Japanese style of working stiff and says that he showed one of his friends a tape of the work and wasn't impressed at all, stating that he could it a guy for real if he wanted to and that there was no skill in working stiff. Raven adds that the real skill is making it look realistic while not hurting yourself or your opponent. Honky says that he cannot sell an actual punch the same as a worked punch.
They now talk about facial expressions and body movement and how the guys today really lack those skills. Honky said that he learned to use body movement to sell when he worked under a mask at the beginning of his career and when his hair grew out, he could jerk his head and have his hair move around. Honky adds that Bret Hart was able to overcome his complete lack of facial expression because his body movement was excellent. Honky talks about three guys who completely lacked animation: Lex Luger, Ultimate Warrior, and Tom Magee. Honky talks about Magee and how he was supposed to be the next Hogan and was 6'7 300lbs and do backflips off the top rope. Raven asks how come they didnt stick with him and Honky said that he had no lateral movement at all and couldnt even sell anything. Raven then tells a story about how he had to work with Bill Goldberg in WCW and that Goldberg told him he wasnt going to sell anything.
The above discussion about Goldberg leads into a rant on Bret Hart by Honky. He brings up how Hart said in an interview that he didnt like working with him because he was "too soft" in the ring. Honky then tells Bret who would he rather work with for the next five years, him or Goldberg, who kicked him in the head and put him out of the business. For a more profane and animated version of this rant, check out Honky's First YouShoot DVD. Honky adds that Hart and Flair worked the same match every night then Raven laughs about the fact that Hart accused Flair of working the same match every night when he did the exact same thing.
They now talk about Flair. Raven said that Flair dissed him while he was in WCW. Honky brings up Flair's book and how he said that he wouldnt have been a main event talent if it wasn't for Hogan. Honky adds that he was in main events before going to the WWF and added that Arn Anderson wouldn't have amounted to "dog shit" if it wasn't for Flair and that his head was shoved so far up his ass that he was surprised he could even breath.
They now talk about friends in the business as Honky adds that all the stars had their own versions of Brutus Beefcake. Raven says that you want to get your friends jobs but only build them up to their skill level and not to promote them further than that. Honky said that was how you got to get jobs in other territories back in the day. He said guys like the Bushwhackers and Joe LeDuc would help him out. Raven said that he always tries to get his friends like Sandman, Disco Inferno, and Johnny Swinger jobs but that no one else wants to do that today. He recalls a story about Edge, who he was very close with in the WWF, asked him to go to the office and help him out for a program or to take a look at as he was getting jobbed out, but he refused. Raven also brings up that Edge did the same thing to Johnny Swinger, who was the best man at his first wedding during his time in the WWE. Raven doesnt get why people do not want to help there friends and asks how fucking selfish can you be. Honky believes the friendships died when the territories did as you would go to the WWF and guys you worked with for years wouldnt talk to you anymore. Then after that, the greed really started to set in and everyone stopped looking out for each other. Raven jokes about how Disco never thanked him for creating his gimmick and he is one of his best friends.
Honky talks about getting into the ring with younger guys on the independents and that most of them are a bit nervous and some of them do not realize who he is but a lot of them screw up in the ring. Honky recalls that when he first started out, he wrestled against Lou Thesz and got the shit kicked out of him and that he deserved it as he kept screwing up but that was how you learned. He then adds how guys with nine total matches will approach him about wanting to do certain spots and how hat boggles his mind. Raven talks about how guys on the indies will say that they have been working for three years but when you ask them ho wmany matches they have had they say ten. This leads to a discussion about Taz, who yells at guys for not paying their dues constantly, yet Raven says that Taz spent one day in Memphis and quit and worked just a few matches in a four-year span. Honky adds that Taz used to tote around Kevin Sullivan's bags then Raven tells a story of how Taz had an orgasm in the ring after being on the receiving end of a German suplex by Sullivan. Honky finishes by saying you no longer ask someone how long they have been in the business but rather how many matches they have had.
Raven talks about when he was relegated to "Sunday Night Heat" that the jobbers he would work with who claim that they could do all sorts of stuff and he would have them punch and kick each other in the ring and 9-out-of-10 could not do anything. Honky said that when he first started, he would get the VHS tapes of his matches and watch them all night to improve on what he was doing incorrectly.
They now talk about wrestling schools and how they are no being run by guys with very little experience. Raven said that he trained at Larry Sharpe's school, who was a nobody in wrestling, but was mostly trained by Charlie Fulton, who was a solid worker for many years. Raven said that they guys who train the students there now are those who wrestled several TV squashes in the WWF and that is their qualification.
Raven brings up the Disco Inferno again and how he always wanted to be the Honky Tonk Man. Honky said that he met Disco once then again a few years later and Disco did not recall meeting him that first time. Raven talks about how he got Disco his first break when he was in Memphis and Jerry Lawler asked him what his gimmick was and he said that it was the Disco Inferno. Raven said that he took it from a guy in Calgary who wrestled with a disco gimmick. Raven asks Honky if it means something to him that he was a reason that a wrestler got into the business. Honky said that it does because you impacted the life of someone. Honky then said that people want to be the next Rock but that he did not last in the business long enough as he found another way to make millions of dollars.
Back from a break, Raven asks Honky about the Hall of Fame. He says that it is an honor in the sense that there are a lot of great names associated with the award but that he does not want to sign over all of his rights with to the WWE (control of his character), which will not let him continue to earn on the independents. Honky adds that if they are going to let Mike Rotundo be an agent and have Barry Windham on payroll, at least let him sweep the floors.
Now, Raven has the list of the 101 dirtiest rumors in wrestling, a popular list. He and Honky go through some of the rumors. I will list the rumors and post their thoughts:
Kevin Sullivan spends his vacations at a nudist colony. Take that image through the day.
Honky thinks it could be true then recalls how he teamed with him in Atlanta before Ole Anderson fired him.
Tommy Rich did some favors for Jim Barnett in exchange for the NWA World Title
Honky believes that is false, as he knows Rich. He then recalls how he was one of the most recognizable wrestlers on television before Hulk Hogan came around. This then leads to Honky talking about the Fuller's who gave him some payoffs in pot. Raven said that he heard rumors about them giving the boys "powder payoffs." Now, Raven, asks Honky about Robert Fuller having a huge cock, which Honky confirms and jokes that they called it the "gutwrench" and doesnt understand why he didnt go into porn.
NWA World Champion Gene Kiniski bought Kevin Von Erich a hooker in Las Vegas, when Kevin was TWELVE.
Honky thinks it could be true as he was Canadian and they are not as uptight about sex as American's.
A coked up Kerry and Kevin were once playing with a saw blade in the back hallways at the sportatorium. Kerry saw a cat, so he threw the saw blade at the cat, killing it.
Honky said it could be true then praises Kerry for being a great guy but that he was unable to read the cue cards for the house show promos in the WWF.
R&R Express walk in on Jimmy Valiant laying on the floor jerking off under a glass table that a hooker is shitting on. Ricky throws up and leaves, while Robert stays to watch.
Raven says that it sounds entirely plausible but Honky can't see Ricky leaving the room in that situation.
Dusty Rhodes got Baby Doll fired (or something) because he was pissed that she married near-jobber Sam Houston instead of him.
This leads to a discussion of how the business has changed with the women as they used to get in the business to be with the boys and now they get in to wrestle. Raven also adds how back then, the women used to get with the main eventers but now they are with the undercard guys.
Manny Fernandez took a dump in "Number One" Paul Jones brand-new Stetson hat, put it back in the hat box on the airplane, like nothing happened, and went to sit back by Jones for the remainder of the flight.
Honky said it sounds true as Manny would do just about anything.
Raven got caught in a hotel room with Becky Bayless at age 14, and Becky slept with Joel Gertner and his wife.
Raven said that she was in the room but nothing happened because he knew she was underaged and he was interrogated by the police and let go as they even knew that nothing happened. What went on was that he was two other adult woman and they slept together and they left in the morning and when the cops came into the room, Raven was naked in the bed and Becky was in the room. Raven then added that Mikey Whipwreck told Heyman that Raven got arrested. Honky joked that Raven really did work for Lawler.
Rip Rogers pulled Barry Windham's keys out of a commode filled with shit and Jack Daniels after a particularly hard night of partying with his bare hands.
Raven said that sounds true and that Windham was known for having the spray shits. Honky said that Rip would do just about anything for money. Rip said that he never drank or did drugs but would do stuff for money.
Johnny Valentine would take a dump and strategically place it where it couldn't be found easily like the inside of bed posts.
Both guys talk about the stories they heard of Valentine being vicious in his pranks. Honky then tells a story of his son Greg and how one day he saw Greg piss in the ice machine at a hotel and to this day, he will never use or even allow his kids to use those machines.
Shawn Michaels supposedly invited three hot girls back to his hotel room. He told them to all get naked and get on their knees. He whips out his ding dong and the girls figure it's going to be a suck-fest, but instead he proceeds to take a piss in each of their mouths.
Honky said that sounded like something that Marty Jannetty would have done. This leads to the guys telling a few stories about Marty. Raven tells one of how a girl moved into his house and started to get her mail sent there and when Marty tried to kick her out but the judge ruled that since her mail was being sent there, she had a right to stay and Marty basically got kicked out of his own house. Honky then tells a story of how he was with Marty in Scotland a few years ago, just a few days after he was baptized by Shawn Michaels. Honky got a bottle of Bell's Whiskey and Marty was telling him how he was clean and getting back in the WWE. Honky had the bottle and asked Marty if he wanted a hit and he declined. At 3am, Honky heard a knock on the door and it was Marty, asking for a taste of the whiskey. Honky gave him a good sized glass and Marty left then came back five minutes later. The next day, Marty asked for something for his back and Honky gave him some codeine. Marty asked him how many to take, Honky told him if you are not drinking, you can take 2-3. Marty asked him a few hours later if he should take more and Honky said as long as you are not drinking then Marty took four more. Marty then asked for some whiskey and Honky said that it was not a good idea but Marty drank it anyway. They get to the show and Marty is puking out of the car then goes in the arena and has the match. That night, Honky heard another knock on the door and it was Marty and again he was asking for some whiskey. Honky says that he loves Marty and that we all have our problems.
Raven asks Honky if he thinks people have really found religion. Raven said that Terry Taylor has but Honky is weary of that, stating that he is still stabbing people in the back. Honky said that Greg Valentine told him he has found religion and has stopped lying and double-booking himself. Honky talks about Ted DiBiase and how he was full of shit for calling Vince McMahon the devil then going back to work for him. Honky then jokes about Ted fucking a preacher's wife.
Apparently after Lawler first arrived in the good old WWF a lot of people disliked him for his general arrogant attitude. Hall, Nash, and Michaels didn't take to this too well, so at one of the Royal Rumbles, Lawler left his crown in the dressing room to do the Rumble. So the Kliq decided to shit in his crown. But apparently this wasn't like a couple of turds in the crown. They apparently filled King's precious crown to the brim with a nice, hearty Kilq shit.
Honky said that he heard a rumor that is was someone who is now an agent in the WWE and got fucked over on payoffs from Lawler in Memphis. He didnt want to say who it was as he didnt know it to be 100%. He said it was not someone from the Kliq.
The guys now talk about Bam Bam Bigelow, who passed away shortly before this interview. Honky said he was agile and could work like a big man, unlike Vader who wanted to work like a cruiserweight. Raven also talks about Kamala and the One Man Gang being great big men too, as they could sway back and forth and not fall down.
TAKA fucked Sunny while Candido watched.
Both guys praise Chris for being a great guy. Honky said he was the most forgiving person and Raven adds how he was very caring and how it was a shame that he died of a ring injury after he got his life back in order. Honky then adds that sometimes, nice guys die first and that Jake Roberts, Jim Neidhart, and Kevin Von Erich will probably live forever.
Jushin Liger likes to loan out his wife to folks like Sasuke, TAKA, and Hayabusa. He may also like to watch.
Neither guy has a clue but Honky tells a story of how he saw a Japanese Porn of a guy tied up and a bunch of girls lined up in a row to kick him in the nuts. He said that he sent it to Dory Funk as a joke. He then says that the Bushwhackers send him a lot of porn. Raven talks about how Japan censors penetration in their films.
Mike Rapada paid $25,000 to win the NWA belt.
Neither guy has a clue if this is true or not but it leads into a discussion about how others were rumored to have done this sort of stuff in the past. Raven brings up the rumor that Magnum TA's other took a mortage out on their home for him to get the NWA belt in the 1980's. Honky then says he would give Vince money today to be the world champ as long as he got half of what he made. Honky then talks about the money Hogan made in the 1980's saying that he wrestled nine times a week and usually made about $20,000 plus more for the big shows and for his merchandise sales and says that adds up to over $200,000 a week. He says that people do not believe him when he talks about the money Hogan made but it was true and that gys like Austin and Rock do not even compare. Raven asks if Hogan should have gone to bat for the other wrestlers to unionize and get healthcare but Honky said there was no reason to risk his payday. Honky said that there should have been a profit sharing system if you have been there for a certain amount of time then Raven joked that Vince would probably fire you a month before that was to happen.
Curt Hennig was supposedly one of those that shit in Lawler's crown.
Honky said no but that Hennig did shit in the bag of Chief Jay Strongbow's son (Mark Young). Raven tells a story of how Hennig was a puppet master and when the 1-2-3 Kid came in, Hennig saved his eyebrows and blamed it on the Smoking Gunns so the Kid put super glue in their cowboy hats then the Gunns gave him a receipt.
Sheik Adnan Al-Kaissey describes seeing Andre screwing - "like a lion raping a rabbit".
Raven said that Buddy Rose was proud of the fact that Andre once shoved his thumb up his ass.
Raven did not wear clothes backstage in TNA until someone complained that Dixie Carter would see his horsecock.
Raven said that was true. Honky then goes on and says that the locker room should be the sanctuary for the boys. He then says in the WWF, when Sable and Sunny would have their catfights, they would get separate locker rooms and they would all have to dress in the hallway if there were only two locker rooms in the arena and they couldnt change when they were out in the hallway. They both talk about how they hate when people bring their friends and family into the locker room when they are trying to get dressed. Raven says that he was working for 3PW and Jasmin St. Claire would complain that he would walk around naked. Honky tells a story about how Virgil was their with Jasmin in the locker room and told Honky he couldnt get dressed as she was in the room. Honky told him that she got gang-banged on film and Virgil started to take off his clothes. Raven tells a story of how Colonel DeBeers would pretend he was gay in the locker room towards Rex King, who was very homphobic and would chase him around naked.
Raven talks about locker rooms in ECW and how women and men shared the rooms and they didnt have any showers so he would just wash himself in the sink. Honky said that they treated the women wrestlers like their sisters back then and would turn around when they got dressed.
According to a referee who was released from the WWF, Bradshaw tied up a wrestler in the shower while he was naked and rubbed baby oil all over him threatening to rape him until he cried while the lockerroom looked on and laughed. I think the victim might have date-raped a girl, or may have just not been well-liked. It was never specified who the victim was other than this happened in like '98 or '99 and the guy was a fairly well known wrestler, I also heard it might have been Brian Christopher aka Grandmaster Sexay.
Raven said this was true and it was in fact, Brian Christopher. Raven also said that Christopher was screaming that "Guys don't do this to other guys" as Honky wants to know how come Bradshaw hasnt done that to Jerry Lawler.
Remember when David Flair quit IWA Puerto Rico due to unfit living conditions? And everybody ragged on him when they found out IWA had put him up in a nice house? Well, that nice house belonged to Victor Quiones. I shouldn't have to say anymore, but I will. David was sleeping one night and was woken up by Quiones standing over him about to blow a load on his face. David quit the next day.
Neither guy has a clue but they are reminded that Ric Flair tried to go after Quiones and this prompts Honky to talk about going after someone in front of a bunch of people is not the way to go and that you should take the person aside and try to work out the problem. Raven asks about Koko B. Ware going after someone once and Honky talks about he came after Hacksaw Duggan with a nip once as Duggan slapped it away from him and said get the fuck away from him. Raven tells a story of how Billy Jack Haynes almost killed him once in Portland after Art Barr blamed him for a rib that he pulled. They talk about Jericho taking down Goldberg as Raven says that Jericho has that "Canadian retard strength." Honky again stresses that you do no to this in front of everyone and work it out on the side.
They now talk about the Dynamite Kid/Jacques Rougeau incident. Honky says that Dynamite broke Jacques jaw after punching him while he was sitting down playing cards. He said that when Dynamite got hit, everyone was saying how he was holding two cups of coffee and couldnt defend himself but they add how neither could Jacques when he was sitting down holding cards. Honky then goes on about how Dynamite claimed in his book that he slapped him and Honky cried. Honky tells the story about they had a confrontation one night and he approached him the next night and asked Dynamite if they had a problem and he said no and that was the end of that. What happened was that Heenan made a joke about Harley Race not being able to take an ass bump due to a colostomy bag then someone spread a rumor that after a sold out show at the Boston Garden, Honky said that he paid the boys' rent. Honky actually told Jimmy Hart that at least they paid their rent tonight and that Dynamite would mention that to him for the next two weeks. Honky then talks about Dynamite weighing about 130 lbs when he first started and that he got bigger because of steroids. He then says that he terrorized Terry Taylor and would cut up his clothes, which is not a rib but just destroyin someone's property. Raven says that when that happens, its a lose/lose situation as if you fight back, it means that you cannot take a rib. Anyway, Dynamite flipped out on him after drinking all day long and asked him why he said that about Harley and Honky told him that he didnt say the joke, Bobby Heenan did. Honky says that Dynamite might have been a tough guy all jacked up on roids and drunk but if there was any crying, it would have been Dynamite after he stuck his foot up his ass. Honky says that he pissed off all the European guys after saying that Dynamite deserves everything he got after the way he treated people. Apparently, Finlay was irate over this and threatened to fly over there and kick his ass. Honky then mentions how Diana Smith called Dynamite the biggest liar he has ever met.
Honky closes by saying that he has done a lot of bad things and some good things but he doesnt care what people say when he is gone as he can't hear them. He doesnt even care what they say about him when he is alive.
Final Thoughts: A fantastic shoot. Both guys were insightful and hilarious, especially the Honky Tonk Man who stood out a lot more than Raven did here. The interview had a little bit of everything from gossip, gross stories, hilarious stories and even some heartfelt moments. The first hour contained a lot of knowledge and how it is lost on a majority of the wrestlers today, which is still a glaring problem today. Having the guys go through the list of rumors was a fun segment, even if it did drag a bit but the side-stories that they told were usually better than their own insight on the rumors. As the debut of the "Face Off" series, I dont think that any of the fifteen other volumes that have followed can compare to this one. I give this a high recommendation. You can download the video for $9.99 at Highspots.com. I did and it is well worth the price, IMO. Here is the link:
http://www.highspots.com/p/VD_faceoff1_raven_HTM.html
The interview starts with a graphic honoring Doug Gentry, who passed away prior to this filming. Gentry worked for RF Video and was responsible for filming the ECW FanCam footage
The interview starts with the food delivery arriving and the first few minutes are disorganized as the give the delivery guy instructions.
Raven asks Honky about him refusing to drop the Intercontinental Title and everything else that happened afterwards as a result. Honky said that Vince was worried because he already spoke with Jim Barnett of the NWA, who told him to not drop the belt on TV. He said he and Randy never had a problem over what happened, as he understood it was business, then said that Randy actually thanked him at one point due to receiving the World Heavyweight Title as a result. Honky goes through what was told to him after he got word from the office they wanted him to drop the belt, stating that he was told he was getting "rebuilt," which he believed was back to the opening matches against guys like Lanny Poffo, S.D. Jones, and Pedro Morales and how that would greatly lower his income as he was just starting to make money when he was selling out the "B" shows. He confirms that DiBiase was promised the World Heavyweight Title and a feud with Hogan. He then says how he went to Vince and asked him to keep him strong on TV for a while and give him a chance to get over and make a little bit of money and if he failed, he would gladly do whatever Vince wanted.
Still on this topic, Raven goes into how back then, they had job guys to put over the stars and that the stars never did the job clean on TV and would wrestle the other stars at house shows and make money that way, which is not the case today. Honky adds that the contracts were not guaranteed then like they are today. He also says that back then, there were other places to go work unlike today. Honky also states that Vince respected him for standing up for himself.
Honky is asked by Raven about his costumes. He tells him that the ones he uses for independents is $3,500 and the one for special occasions and signings was $10,000. Honky talks about how the guys today all look cookie-cutter but that people recognize him due to his costume. He brings up how he talked to Jimmy Hart a few days ago and how the red and yellow color scheme always draws attention and was first used by Barnum and Bailey Circus before Hulk Hogan, adding that those colors always works. Raven talks about young guys not wanting to spend money on their look yet wait around for the office to give them a push. They both say how you will not make it if you do not try to set yourself apart from everyone else.
Honky talks about going to the WCW Powerplant when that was running and how all the young guys were sleeping on the floor instead of watching matches ot listening to advice. He goes on about how he drove 400 miles in a small car with other guys when he first started and did not get guaranteed money or even get plane fare to a training school. Raven says that Steve Keirn gave him the best advice when he first started and that was watch as much wrestling as you can. He then adds that you can do as many moves as you want but it doesnt mean shit if you cant sell tickets. Honky said that he asked Johnny Rodz if any of he guys he trained ever come back to train and he said no one does as soon as they get their first booking. Honky said when he first started, he would book himself on the weekends and go back and train twice a week for about nine months. Raven said you have to eat, sleep, and breath wrestling to make it and if you want to be a star or do flips, join the Cirque de Soleil. They then laugh at guys who think Hogan and Lawler cannot work because they do not use highspots in their matches.
They now talk about working the crowd. Honky said that Col. DeBeers told him if they yell boring, take it down a notch as if they are responding, they are paying attention.
Honky is asked about the hardcore stuff they did in Memphis. He said that it was controlled hardcore back then and he worked with guys that he had good chemistry with. Raven said when he got to ECW, Heyman thought that faces and heels were a thing of the past but he said it made it difficult to build a match so he decided to be a heel anway. He told other wrestlers in the company that he was only doing one chair shot in his match and some of them would complain about how others were doing ten at a time and Raven's response was that it doesnt matter what they did as in his match, he can sell one fine. Honky recalls watching a RVD/Sabu match once that contained at least 25 chairshots. Raven also compares to the cruiser matches of today and how they do not sell. He says that today, many guys either no sell or act like they are dead, with nothing in between. Honky goes back to the ECW match he saw and said that he likes both guys and that was how ECW was structured. Raven said that he did less than others, partly due to laziness and drug addiction, but also because he wanted to build drama. Honky says that he tells the guys breaking in today that if you lose control, then the crowd and the match is lost.
Still on the subject, Honky hates table spots due to the lack of control as you have no idea if the table will cut you. Raven said you can have a feel of what you are doing after a while and that is why he uses an elbow drop, instead of a flippy-move that you have no control over. Honky said that a powerbomb through a table is something he hates as when you are taking the move, you have no idea where you are going. He then says that wrestling is entertainment and athletics, not stuntman routines. Raven says that he tells the young guys that he wants to wrestle until he is 50 years old and that the guys he was with in TNA four years ago who did all highspots are now starting to take it down a few notches as they are already beat up. Honky brings up Mick Foley and how after falling off the top of the cage, there was nothing left to do. Raven adds that the fact he was a good talker is what kept him relevant after that.
Raven talks about the Japanese style of working stiff and says that he showed one of his friends a tape of the work and wasn't impressed at all, stating that he could it a guy for real if he wanted to and that there was no skill in working stiff. Raven adds that the real skill is making it look realistic while not hurting yourself or your opponent. Honky says that he cannot sell an actual punch the same as a worked punch.
They now talk about facial expressions and body movement and how the guys today really lack those skills. Honky said that he learned to use body movement to sell when he worked under a mask at the beginning of his career and when his hair grew out, he could jerk his head and have his hair move around. Honky adds that Bret Hart was able to overcome his complete lack of facial expression because his body movement was excellent. Honky talks about three guys who completely lacked animation: Lex Luger, Ultimate Warrior, and Tom Magee. Honky talks about Magee and how he was supposed to be the next Hogan and was 6'7 300lbs and do backflips off the top rope. Raven asks how come they didnt stick with him and Honky said that he had no lateral movement at all and couldnt even sell anything. Raven then tells a story about how he had to work with Bill Goldberg in WCW and that Goldberg told him he wasnt going to sell anything.
The above discussion about Goldberg leads into a rant on Bret Hart by Honky. He brings up how Hart said in an interview that he didnt like working with him because he was "too soft" in the ring. Honky then tells Bret who would he rather work with for the next five years, him or Goldberg, who kicked him in the head and put him out of the business. For a more profane and animated version of this rant, check out Honky's First YouShoot DVD. Honky adds that Hart and Flair worked the same match every night then Raven laughs about the fact that Hart accused Flair of working the same match every night when he did the exact same thing.
They now talk about Flair. Raven said that Flair dissed him while he was in WCW. Honky brings up Flair's book and how he said that he wouldnt have been a main event talent if it wasn't for Hogan. Honky adds that he was in main events before going to the WWF and added that Arn Anderson wouldn't have amounted to "dog shit" if it wasn't for Flair and that his head was shoved so far up his ass that he was surprised he could even breath.
They now talk about friends in the business as Honky adds that all the stars had their own versions of Brutus Beefcake. Raven says that you want to get your friends jobs but only build them up to their skill level and not to promote them further than that. Honky said that was how you got to get jobs in other territories back in the day. He said guys like the Bushwhackers and Joe LeDuc would help him out. Raven said that he always tries to get his friends like Sandman, Disco Inferno, and Johnny Swinger jobs but that no one else wants to do that today. He recalls a story about Edge, who he was very close with in the WWF, asked him to go to the office and help him out for a program or to take a look at as he was getting jobbed out, but he refused. Raven also brings up that Edge did the same thing to Johnny Swinger, who was the best man at his first wedding during his time in the WWE. Raven doesnt get why people do not want to help there friends and asks how fucking selfish can you be. Honky believes the friendships died when the territories did as you would go to the WWF and guys you worked with for years wouldnt talk to you anymore. Then after that, the greed really started to set in and everyone stopped looking out for each other. Raven jokes about how Disco never thanked him for creating his gimmick and he is one of his best friends.
Honky talks about getting into the ring with younger guys on the independents and that most of them are a bit nervous and some of them do not realize who he is but a lot of them screw up in the ring. Honky recalls that when he first started out, he wrestled against Lou Thesz and got the shit kicked out of him and that he deserved it as he kept screwing up but that was how you learned. He then adds how guys with nine total matches will approach him about wanting to do certain spots and how hat boggles his mind. Raven talks about how guys on the indies will say that they have been working for three years but when you ask them ho wmany matches they have had they say ten. This leads to a discussion about Taz, who yells at guys for not paying their dues constantly, yet Raven says that Taz spent one day in Memphis and quit and worked just a few matches in a four-year span. Honky adds that Taz used to tote around Kevin Sullivan's bags then Raven tells a story of how Taz had an orgasm in the ring after being on the receiving end of a German suplex by Sullivan. Honky finishes by saying you no longer ask someone how long they have been in the business but rather how many matches they have had.
Raven talks about when he was relegated to "Sunday Night Heat" that the jobbers he would work with who claim that they could do all sorts of stuff and he would have them punch and kick each other in the ring and 9-out-of-10 could not do anything. Honky said that when he first started, he would get the VHS tapes of his matches and watch them all night to improve on what he was doing incorrectly.
They now talk about wrestling schools and how they are no being run by guys with very little experience. Raven said that he trained at Larry Sharpe's school, who was a nobody in wrestling, but was mostly trained by Charlie Fulton, who was a solid worker for many years. Raven said that they guys who train the students there now are those who wrestled several TV squashes in the WWF and that is their qualification.
Raven brings up the Disco Inferno again and how he always wanted to be the Honky Tonk Man. Honky said that he met Disco once then again a few years later and Disco did not recall meeting him that first time. Raven talks about how he got Disco his first break when he was in Memphis and Jerry Lawler asked him what his gimmick was and he said that it was the Disco Inferno. Raven said that he took it from a guy in Calgary who wrestled with a disco gimmick. Raven asks Honky if it means something to him that he was a reason that a wrestler got into the business. Honky said that it does because you impacted the life of someone. Honky then said that people want to be the next Rock but that he did not last in the business long enough as he found another way to make millions of dollars.
Back from a break, Raven asks Honky about the Hall of Fame. He says that it is an honor in the sense that there are a lot of great names associated with the award but that he does not want to sign over all of his rights with to the WWE (control of his character), which will not let him continue to earn on the independents. Honky adds that if they are going to let Mike Rotundo be an agent and have Barry Windham on payroll, at least let him sweep the floors.
Now, Raven has the list of the 101 dirtiest rumors in wrestling, a popular list. He and Honky go through some of the rumors. I will list the rumors and post their thoughts:
Kevin Sullivan spends his vacations at a nudist colony. Take that image through the day.
Honky thinks it could be true then recalls how he teamed with him in Atlanta before Ole Anderson fired him.
Tommy Rich did some favors for Jim Barnett in exchange for the NWA World Title
Honky believes that is false, as he knows Rich. He then recalls how he was one of the most recognizable wrestlers on television before Hulk Hogan came around. This then leads to Honky talking about the Fuller's who gave him some payoffs in pot. Raven said that he heard rumors about them giving the boys "powder payoffs." Now, Raven, asks Honky about Robert Fuller having a huge cock, which Honky confirms and jokes that they called it the "gutwrench" and doesnt understand why he didnt go into porn.
NWA World Champion Gene Kiniski bought Kevin Von Erich a hooker in Las Vegas, when Kevin was TWELVE.
Honky thinks it could be true as he was Canadian and they are not as uptight about sex as American's.
A coked up Kerry and Kevin were once playing with a saw blade in the back hallways at the sportatorium. Kerry saw a cat, so he threw the saw blade at the cat, killing it.
Honky said it could be true then praises Kerry for being a great guy but that he was unable to read the cue cards for the house show promos in the WWF.
R&R Express walk in on Jimmy Valiant laying on the floor jerking off under a glass table that a hooker is shitting on. Ricky throws up and leaves, while Robert stays to watch.
Raven says that it sounds entirely plausible but Honky can't see Ricky leaving the room in that situation.
Dusty Rhodes got Baby Doll fired (or something) because he was pissed that she married near-jobber Sam Houston instead of him.
This leads to a discussion of how the business has changed with the women as they used to get in the business to be with the boys and now they get in to wrestle. Raven also adds how back then, the women used to get with the main eventers but now they are with the undercard guys.
Manny Fernandez took a dump in "Number One" Paul Jones brand-new Stetson hat, put it back in the hat box on the airplane, like nothing happened, and went to sit back by Jones for the remainder of the flight.
Honky said it sounds true as Manny would do just about anything.
Raven got caught in a hotel room with Becky Bayless at age 14, and Becky slept with Joel Gertner and his wife.
Raven said that she was in the room but nothing happened because he knew she was underaged and he was interrogated by the police and let go as they even knew that nothing happened. What went on was that he was two other adult woman and they slept together and they left in the morning and when the cops came into the room, Raven was naked in the bed and Becky was in the room. Raven then added that Mikey Whipwreck told Heyman that Raven got arrested. Honky joked that Raven really did work for Lawler.
Rip Rogers pulled Barry Windham's keys out of a commode filled with shit and Jack Daniels after a particularly hard night of partying with his bare hands.
Raven said that sounds true and that Windham was known for having the spray shits. Honky said that Rip would do just about anything for money. Rip said that he never drank or did drugs but would do stuff for money.
Johnny Valentine would take a dump and strategically place it where it couldn't be found easily like the inside of bed posts.
Both guys talk about the stories they heard of Valentine being vicious in his pranks. Honky then tells a story of his son Greg and how one day he saw Greg piss in the ice machine at a hotel and to this day, he will never use or even allow his kids to use those machines.
Shawn Michaels supposedly invited three hot girls back to his hotel room. He told them to all get naked and get on their knees. He whips out his ding dong and the girls figure it's going to be a suck-fest, but instead he proceeds to take a piss in each of their mouths.
Honky said that sounded like something that Marty Jannetty would have done. This leads to the guys telling a few stories about Marty. Raven tells one of how a girl moved into his house and started to get her mail sent there and when Marty tried to kick her out but the judge ruled that since her mail was being sent there, she had a right to stay and Marty basically got kicked out of his own house. Honky then tells a story of how he was with Marty in Scotland a few years ago, just a few days after he was baptized by Shawn Michaels. Honky got a bottle of Bell's Whiskey and Marty was telling him how he was clean and getting back in the WWE. Honky had the bottle and asked Marty if he wanted a hit and he declined. At 3am, Honky heard a knock on the door and it was Marty, asking for a taste of the whiskey. Honky gave him a good sized glass and Marty left then came back five minutes later. The next day, Marty asked for something for his back and Honky gave him some codeine. Marty asked him how many to take, Honky told him if you are not drinking, you can take 2-3. Marty asked him a few hours later if he should take more and Honky said as long as you are not drinking then Marty took four more. Marty then asked for some whiskey and Honky said that it was not a good idea but Marty drank it anyway. They get to the show and Marty is puking out of the car then goes in the arena and has the match. That night, Honky heard another knock on the door and it was Marty and again he was asking for some whiskey. Honky says that he loves Marty and that we all have our problems.
Raven asks Honky if he thinks people have really found religion. Raven said that Terry Taylor has but Honky is weary of that, stating that he is still stabbing people in the back. Honky said that Greg Valentine told him he has found religion and has stopped lying and double-booking himself. Honky talks about Ted DiBiase and how he was full of shit for calling Vince McMahon the devil then going back to work for him. Honky then jokes about Ted fucking a preacher's wife.
Apparently after Lawler first arrived in the good old WWF a lot of people disliked him for his general arrogant attitude. Hall, Nash, and Michaels didn't take to this too well, so at one of the Royal Rumbles, Lawler left his crown in the dressing room to do the Rumble. So the Kliq decided to shit in his crown. But apparently this wasn't like a couple of turds in the crown. They apparently filled King's precious crown to the brim with a nice, hearty Kilq shit.
Honky said that he heard a rumor that is was someone who is now an agent in the WWE and got fucked over on payoffs from Lawler in Memphis. He didnt want to say who it was as he didnt know it to be 100%. He said it was not someone from the Kliq.
The guys now talk about Bam Bam Bigelow, who passed away shortly before this interview. Honky said he was agile and could work like a big man, unlike Vader who wanted to work like a cruiserweight. Raven also talks about Kamala and the One Man Gang being great big men too, as they could sway back and forth and not fall down.
TAKA fucked Sunny while Candido watched.
Both guys praise Chris for being a great guy. Honky said he was the most forgiving person and Raven adds how he was very caring and how it was a shame that he died of a ring injury after he got his life back in order. Honky then adds that sometimes, nice guys die first and that Jake Roberts, Jim Neidhart, and Kevin Von Erich will probably live forever.
Jushin Liger likes to loan out his wife to folks like Sasuke, TAKA, and Hayabusa. He may also like to watch.
Neither guy has a clue but Honky tells a story of how he saw a Japanese Porn of a guy tied up and a bunch of girls lined up in a row to kick him in the nuts. He said that he sent it to Dory Funk as a joke. He then says that the Bushwhackers send him a lot of porn. Raven talks about how Japan censors penetration in their films.
Mike Rapada paid $25,000 to win the NWA belt.
Neither guy has a clue if this is true or not but it leads into a discussion about how others were rumored to have done this sort of stuff in the past. Raven brings up the rumor that Magnum TA's other took a mortage out on their home for him to get the NWA belt in the 1980's. Honky then says he would give Vince money today to be the world champ as long as he got half of what he made. Honky then talks about the money Hogan made in the 1980's saying that he wrestled nine times a week and usually made about $20,000 plus more for the big shows and for his merchandise sales and says that adds up to over $200,000 a week. He says that people do not believe him when he talks about the money Hogan made but it was true and that gys like Austin and Rock do not even compare. Raven asks if Hogan should have gone to bat for the other wrestlers to unionize and get healthcare but Honky said there was no reason to risk his payday. Honky said that there should have been a profit sharing system if you have been there for a certain amount of time then Raven joked that Vince would probably fire you a month before that was to happen.
Curt Hennig was supposedly one of those that shit in Lawler's crown.
Honky said no but that Hennig did shit in the bag of Chief Jay Strongbow's son (Mark Young). Raven tells a story of how Hennig was a puppet master and when the 1-2-3 Kid came in, Hennig saved his eyebrows and blamed it on the Smoking Gunns so the Kid put super glue in their cowboy hats then the Gunns gave him a receipt.
Sheik Adnan Al-Kaissey describes seeing Andre screwing - "like a lion raping a rabbit".
Raven said that Buddy Rose was proud of the fact that Andre once shoved his thumb up his ass.
Raven did not wear clothes backstage in TNA until someone complained that Dixie Carter would see his horsecock.
Raven said that was true. Honky then goes on and says that the locker room should be the sanctuary for the boys. He then says in the WWF, when Sable and Sunny would have their catfights, they would get separate locker rooms and they would all have to dress in the hallway if there were only two locker rooms in the arena and they couldnt change when they were out in the hallway. They both talk about how they hate when people bring their friends and family into the locker room when they are trying to get dressed. Raven says that he was working for 3PW and Jasmin St. Claire would complain that he would walk around naked. Honky tells a story about how Virgil was their with Jasmin in the locker room and told Honky he couldnt get dressed as she was in the room. Honky told him that she got gang-banged on film and Virgil started to take off his clothes. Raven tells a story of how Colonel DeBeers would pretend he was gay in the locker room towards Rex King, who was very homphobic and would chase him around naked.
Raven talks about locker rooms in ECW and how women and men shared the rooms and they didnt have any showers so he would just wash himself in the sink. Honky said that they treated the women wrestlers like their sisters back then and would turn around when they got dressed.
According to a referee who was released from the WWF, Bradshaw tied up a wrestler in the shower while he was naked and rubbed baby oil all over him threatening to rape him until he cried while the lockerroom looked on and laughed. I think the victim might have date-raped a girl, or may have just not been well-liked. It was never specified who the victim was other than this happened in like '98 or '99 and the guy was a fairly well known wrestler, I also heard it might have been Brian Christopher aka Grandmaster Sexay.
Raven said this was true and it was in fact, Brian Christopher. Raven also said that Christopher was screaming that "Guys don't do this to other guys" as Honky wants to know how come Bradshaw hasnt done that to Jerry Lawler.
Remember when David Flair quit IWA Puerto Rico due to unfit living conditions? And everybody ragged on him when they found out IWA had put him up in a nice house? Well, that nice house belonged to Victor Quiones. I shouldn't have to say anymore, but I will. David was sleeping one night and was woken up by Quiones standing over him about to blow a load on his face. David quit the next day.
Neither guy has a clue but they are reminded that Ric Flair tried to go after Quiones and this prompts Honky to talk about going after someone in front of a bunch of people is not the way to go and that you should take the person aside and try to work out the problem. Raven asks about Koko B. Ware going after someone once and Honky talks about he came after Hacksaw Duggan with a nip once as Duggan slapped it away from him and said get the fuck away from him. Raven tells a story of how Billy Jack Haynes almost killed him once in Portland after Art Barr blamed him for a rib that he pulled. They talk about Jericho taking down Goldberg as Raven says that Jericho has that "Canadian retard strength." Honky again stresses that you do no to this in front of everyone and work it out on the side.
They now talk about the Dynamite Kid/Jacques Rougeau incident. Honky says that Dynamite broke Jacques jaw after punching him while he was sitting down playing cards. He said that when Dynamite got hit, everyone was saying how he was holding two cups of coffee and couldnt defend himself but they add how neither could Jacques when he was sitting down holding cards. Honky then goes on about how Dynamite claimed in his book that he slapped him and Honky cried. Honky tells the story about they had a confrontation one night and he approached him the next night and asked Dynamite if they had a problem and he said no and that was the end of that. What happened was that Heenan made a joke about Harley Race not being able to take an ass bump due to a colostomy bag then someone spread a rumor that after a sold out show at the Boston Garden, Honky said that he paid the boys' rent. Honky actually told Jimmy Hart that at least they paid their rent tonight and that Dynamite would mention that to him for the next two weeks. Honky then talks about Dynamite weighing about 130 lbs when he first started and that he got bigger because of steroids. He then says that he terrorized Terry Taylor and would cut up his clothes, which is not a rib but just destroyin someone's property. Raven says that when that happens, its a lose/lose situation as if you fight back, it means that you cannot take a rib. Anyway, Dynamite flipped out on him after drinking all day long and asked him why he said that about Harley and Honky told him that he didnt say the joke, Bobby Heenan did. Honky says that Dynamite might have been a tough guy all jacked up on roids and drunk but if there was any crying, it would have been Dynamite after he stuck his foot up his ass. Honky says that he pissed off all the European guys after saying that Dynamite deserves everything he got after the way he treated people. Apparently, Finlay was irate over this and threatened to fly over there and kick his ass. Honky then mentions how Diana Smith called Dynamite the biggest liar he has ever met.
Honky closes by saying that he has done a lot of bad things and some good things but he doesnt care what people say when he is gone as he can't hear them. He doesnt even care what they say about him when he is alive.
Final Thoughts: A fantastic shoot. Both guys were insightful and hilarious, especially the Honky Tonk Man who stood out a lot more than Raven did here. The interview had a little bit of everything from gossip, gross stories, hilarious stories and even some heartfelt moments. The first hour contained a lot of knowledge and how it is lost on a majority of the wrestlers today, which is still a glaring problem today. Having the guys go through the list of rumors was a fun segment, even if it did drag a bit but the side-stories that they told were usually better than their own insight on the rumors. As the debut of the "Face Off" series, I dont think that any of the fifteen other volumes that have followed can compare to this one. I give this a high recommendation. You can download the video for $9.99 at Highspots.com. I did and it is well worth the price, IMO. Here is the link:
http://www.highspots.com/p/VD_faceoff1_raven_HTM.html
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