DDP Yoga

Monday, November 11, 2013

"What If." "IT DOESNT MATTER, if I return...???"


Morning BoD. Shout out and props to all our veterans and current military personnel on Veterans Day here in the states. Regardless of your view on war, our obligations or lack thereof as a "superpower", etc., I think we can all agree that our military personnel and veterans have made great sacrifices for the greater good of the country. Hope everyone had a fun and refreshing weekend. Mine was a clusterfuck of doing boyfriend duties, house work, and trying to get a water pipe fixed so I could get running water again to my house. Ugh.

I’ve had a week of doing these, and am still trying to gauge what type of post will "draw" the most and generate the most discussion here on the blog. Today I’m gonna venture a little more into fantasy booking land then I had originally ever planned to do, just to see how it works.

What If Rock never makes his 2011-2013 WWE return? His return changed the entire paradigm of the WWE for that 3 year stretch. Everything at the top of the card was booked long term around monetizing every appearance he made during that run, especially his WM matches. Im convinced his entire 3 year run was meticulously planned out almost appearance for appearance before he returned to WWE TV. A quick recap of the current landscape during his 3 year run:

Rock returned before the Elimination Chamber 2011 ppv, to hype his role as the upcoming WM 27 host. He immediately cut a GREAT vintage Rock promo, calling out John Cena and The Miz, the two acts penciled in to as the main event of WM 27. A night after laying the smackdown on Cena and Miz at WM 27, Rock and Cena come to a gentlemen’s agreement to face off in the main event of WM 28. During the year long build to WM 28, an interesting thing happens...CM Punk organically gains steam from the pipe bomb and his feud with John Cena. He becomes one of the hotter acts WWE has seen in awhile. Rock eventually returns for a one off match at Survivor Series, teaming with Cena, to take on Awesome Truth. WM eventually rolls around, and the card shapes up as expected: Rock vs Cena at the top, a HHH/UT rematch, and CM Punk vs a returning Chris Jericho. Rock surprisingly goes over Cena at WM 28, setting up the rematch we are all familiar with. Since this was pretty recent, Im gonna skip recapping how we got there.

Now that we are caught up, how does the landscape of WWE change from 2011-2013 if he never comes back.

Thing to consider:

- How does WM 27 look without Rock? Is WWE confident enough in Cena/Miz at the top of the card? Do they panic and hot shot one of their established guys (HHH, Orton, etc.) into the main event vs Cena?

- Most interestingly to me, how is CM Punk handled in 2011? Is WWE more protective of him since they dont have the Rock to fall back on for WM 28?

- What does WM 28 look like? Does WWE hotshot UT/Cena? Does Vince ride the momentum of CM Punks rise to prominence and go with Cena/Punk as the main event?

- Same question for WM 29. What does WWE do for WM 29 in the absence of a Rock/Cena rematch?

Plausible Scenarios, in random order...

- Without a clear cut WM 28 main event, Vince stretches out the CM Punk return a little, and goes with a Cena/Punk main event along HHH/UT at WM 28. Vince also keeps Miz hanging around the top of the card for a little while longer.

- We never get the Extreme Rules Brock Lesnar/John Cena match. Lesnar is booked a little more creatively and is saved for WM 29, where he headlines against John Cena.



This is just a jumpoff point. Go in any direction you choose.


117 comments:

  1. Have a great day veterans!

    Screw you, active uduty servicemen! Get your own holiday!

    ReplyDelete
  2. Interesting question, I don't think the WWE changes too much of their plans. They still go with Miz vs Cena since they were pushing him. They MIGHT panic and insert a third man, maybe Orton, but I'm not sure. 28 I think is headlined by Punk/Cena with Punk staying a tweener, maybe. This might be another case of WWE not being sure on Punk so addin a third party, maybe the returning Jericho. 29, I have little idea what Cena does, maybe Brock here. I don't think they go Cena/Taker though, they are waiting on the right time to bust that nut.

    ReplyDelete
  3. I reckon CM Punk v John Cena would be Wrestlemania 29 actually. They would play up the long title reign more, and play it as Cena's last chance to win the title.
    For 28, i think they go with Orton/Cena. Cena/Miz was only main eventing because of the Rock's involvement.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Obviously, Big Show and Randy Orton get plugged in to Main Event spots versus Cena, because those are the guys that they throw against Cena regularly. I'm already preparing for this year's 'Mania to be highlighted by Big Show vs. Cena vs. Randy Orton, because why not?


    In all honesty, without the Rock, Cena vs. Punk gets at least one huge WM main event, because those two can put on a phenomenal show and it would make sense given the rest of the happenings around the WWE at the time.


    I also think that if Rock didn't come back for this year's Mania, we probably would have had a greater shot at Punk-Austin, which would have been a much bigger match-up without "Hollywood Megastar" Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson on the card.

    ReplyDelete
  5. To me, it's worth stating that Bryan's current "look" has been part of the angle. He hasn't always had the long beard and unruly hair; it's recent, and I believe it's the image creative wants - or wanted - him to have. Now they're having him tie his hair. I'm pretty sure it will be cut soon, either by choice or via an angle.


    As for his personality and/or promo work, I think you are sorely underestimating him. He and Kane made that horrible anger management program work, and Bryan more than held his own against Cena with promo work leading up to SS.


    Truly, I think we're seeing about 20% - 30% of what the guy really can do in the ring and on the mic. I also believe if he were a bigger asshole backstage, his career might be better off. But, maybe not. One of the reasons Foley is so revered by fans and his peers is because he wasn't a prick.


    In the end, you like the guy or you don't. I don't see "indy geek" when I watch him, but that's me.

    ReplyDelete
  6. I think I said it elsewhere...yes, part of it is what he did to DBry, but it's also HBK's willingness to actually *be* a heel, and not try and outcool or bring down the face(s). Trips can't seem to do that, or at least he didn't with DBry...remains to be seen with Show, I guess.

    ReplyDelete
  7. I don't know if the average fan wants to boo Dwayne. Personally, I'm ok with him staying out of the wrestling world for awhile. I'm a bit tired of his act on the stick, and he apparently can't wrestle without hurting himself.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Dude. Seriously. Do I need to point this out?


    Start a fucking cult of married women.


    *backhand*

    ReplyDelete
  9. oooo....let's 'splode the net! Let's FUCKING DO IT!!!!

    ReplyDelete
  10. I for one am glad that we got an in-ring return from Rock. We got 5 matches from a legend in the biz who didn't do it just for the money. We got several good 3 star matches and a sweet 4 star from a guy 8+ years removed from the ring

    ReplyDelete
  11. You know, I'm not even sure I want to see Cena/Taker. I suppose at some point, Mark will put someone over and ride off into the sunset, but I think I'd rather see him just ride off with the streak intact. Fuck it.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Fellow Buffyverse nerd here... Damn, that was tough to read. I've also been a victim to the drunken confession. And a little like your situation, both parties involved eventually backed off despite the 500 pound gorilla of truth remaining in the room.

    ReplyDelete
  13. Then you just have a fake MMA show. I think the reason people watch wrestling is closer to why they read comic books or, say, watch Sons of Anarchy than why they watch MMA, but maybe that's just me.

    ReplyDelete
  14. I would venture to guess that Miz either 1) wouldn't have won MITB in the first place, 2) would cashed in after WrestleMania or 3) would have dropped the title at Elimination Chamber or something. Rock's return was likely set for months in advance given his schedule, so the Miz title reign would have been vastly different, if it ever existed at all.


    Either way, I think you would have had Cena vs someone like Edge or maybe even Del Rio, who was very hot coming off of his Rumble win, for the WWE Title at WM 27, with guys like Orton, Punk and Barrett in the WHC picture. I think Taker/HHH was the plan from the get-go after the HBK retirement and I doubt they would have messed with that.


    For WM 28, Cena/Punk would have definitely main-evented after the summer of Punk. I would like to think the unification match would have occurred there instead of all the way back at SummerSlam. As for WM 29, with the big NY/NJ stage, they would have probably pulled the trigger on Cena/Taker with Punk vs. someone like Lesnar or Bryan for the WWE title.

    ReplyDelete
  15. The writers give a shit about who Vince tells them to give a shit about. There's no point for them to write for the mid-card if Vince isn't interested.

    The problem goes much higher than 'creative' and higher even than Stephanie. Vince is still running the show and has final say on all angles, storylines, etc.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Don't really see anything changing all that much. Cena's on top til he's gone. Punk had a year and half reign and only main evented the Rock matches if memory serves.

    ReplyDelete
  17. I've been watching wrestling for 23.years and for the life of me can't give a shit about mma. I think this is accurate.

    ReplyDelete
  18. I don't think it's a case of the dumb kids and casual marks just wouldn't "get it" as it's simply not a usable formula for a flagship show.

    ReplyDelete
  19. I don't think I have a dog in this fight, actually. There was one girl I liked in jr high and a bit thereafter; we went on one date, but never anything after that. She wound up getting pregnant and involved in some sort of computer fraud with the guy who knocked her up...apparently, it involved the gov't, and was bad enough that she had to stay away from computers for a few years...so, yeah. I may have actually dodged a bullet on that one.


    Any other woman in whom I've had an interest since high school I pursued. Some were interested, some weren't. The *real* regret I have with women was staying with a girl I did date in high school for way to fucking long once we were both in our 20s. It took my getting arrested after we had a huge fight for me to finally cut that fucking cord for good.


    What's that? Why was I arrested, you ask? Domestic violence. She grabbed my nuts in an unpleasant fashion, I open hand slapped the top of her head to get her to let go. She pulled a knife on me (for the 2nd time); I slammed her hand into the wall to take it from her (the first time I just fucking left...should have done the same thing and stayed gone). I admitted what I did when the cops showed up; she didn't. And at that time in CA, if the cops came to your house on a domestic violence call, someone was getting arrested...there had been a major lawsuit where they came and when and the woman wound up dead. The charges were dropped by the DA at my arraignment...actually, I never even saw a judge. I also remember the cops (male and female pair) looking at each other in surprise to how I reacted when they informed me that I was going to be arrested. I stood up, put my hands behind my back, and said, "OK, let's go." I think I smiled too. Why? They have guns and badges and lots of uniformed friends. I had...well, me. To this day, I wonder if I could have talked my way out of it. Probably not.


    In hindsight, the fact that *I* called the cops when she pulled a knife the first time probably factored into the DA's decision...my behavior at the time of arrest may have contributed as well.


    But, it was a learning experience, if nothing else. The girl really wasn't very bright, and at the time, I didn't think I could do any better. When the cops asked her what happened, her answer started with how we met in fucking high school and went through essentially her whole life up until the cops showed up.


    I fucking hate people.

    ReplyDelete
  20. Agree on the Miz. No idea how it would have played out be he ended up just being a cog in the Rock/Cena 27 story. I'd bet with no Rock they put HHH or Orton in that spot since the match itself would be the draw, not The Rocks involvement

    ReplyDelete
  21. I watch wrestling to watch the performance art of the matches. I think an MMA format could build up wrestlers and lead to very interesting matches in the end. I would enjoy a show of that sort myself, even though I don't care or watch MMA myself unless someone else is watching it and I happen to be there.

    ReplyDelete
  22. AHHHH, so the crowd turned on HBK because of how great of a heel HHH is, not because of how much they're into Daniel Bryan. Gotcha.


    And I didn't mention that because, well, we all know that's what happened. HBK helped Orton/HHH beat Bryan.
    The point is that the crowd absolutely totally turned on HBK— a guy who has had complete love from the crowd for 10 years— when he was pitted against Bryan. Again, put Cena or Show or Sheamus in that spot, and the crowd reaction isn't completely anti-HBK. (And hell, if it's Sheamus, it's a safe bet that the crowd completely takes HBK's side.)


    Also, how did HHH become the "top heel in the company"? By turning on Bryan. I mean for Chrissakes, in three months they were able to turn three of their top faces (HHH, Orton, and HBK at least for teh one night) heel simply by having him turn on Bryan. Yet there's people on this blog who somehow argue that he isn't super over with the mainstream crowds. That's just ridiculous. Again, put Sheamus in the Bryan spot at and after Summerslam, and I guarantee you can't turn Orton and HHH heel off of it.

    ReplyDelete
  23. I'm curious how close you'd like it to get? I kind of think there's a tight rope walk, In regards to how close you get to the MMA product without just making a fake MMA show.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Yea not so sure, but it is an idea I haven't seen tried before, and who knows it may work well or not, I just want to see some risk taking and attempts at being different in wrestling.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Great what if.
    I actually think there's a good chance that Mania 27 is still headlined by Miz vs Cena, because they'd been pushing Miz hard since the fall and they probably figured the big draw would be 'watch Cena win the title back." Oh, and along those lines, I think without Rock Wrestlemania 27 would have bombed HARD. Like, worst Mania buyrate of the 2000s bad. If you look at the state of WWE in 2011, Rock absolutely saved their asses that year. The main eventers (Cena, Orton, Edge) were as stale as it gets and nobody new had caught fire. Plus the buyrate for Mania 26 had dropped into the 800,000s and that was with Jericho/HBK/Batista/Bret all on that card.


    I think if Rock doesn't return, then WWE is forced to do something radical to boost business instead. Again, Rock absolutely propped them up for 3 straight Manias. (Mania 27 being by far the most obvious.) Without Rock, they may be forced to run Taker/cena and actually turn Cena heel.


    Honestly, I think Rock's return gave Cena an additional 3 years as the top face that he just wouldn't have been able to have if Rock wasn't there to sell those Manias.

    ReplyDelete
  26. HHH isn't getting enough airtime.

    ReplyDelete
  27. You clearly don't get how the fucking married women thing works... perhaps I should create a wiki for the subject...

    ReplyDelete
  28. You dolt.

    They live their lives much as they do now. However, they pay tribute to you, their cult leader, with sexual favors and monetary tributes. They stay at home, with their husbands, but you get control in terms of nasty, freaky, forbidden sex, and they bring you cash.


    *pimp slap*

    ReplyDelete
  29. and a match with Cena. . .

    ReplyDelete
  30. I think had he actually wrestled on Raw the PPV matches would have been even better. I'm still pissed we didn't get a Rock title defense on Raw.

    ReplyDelete
  31. You are very violent today. Is Mrs. todd not paying her tribute to you?

    ReplyDelete
  32. Dude, you extrapolate everything I say into a larger pro - Bryan point. Like below, how you extrapolate my rational for Big Show insertion into this feud into how Foley was a bigger draw. Of course it was a bigger draw, but WWEs logic behind both feuds is exactly the same.

    Of course Bryans over. Of course it has helped Orton/HHH get over as heels. What you don't realize is that was the game plan all along. They would have found other ways to get Orton and HHH over as heels because, in the big picture they want HHH being the biggest heel in the company come WM.

    As far as Michaels goes...Bryan being the fan favorite ABSOLUTELY played a part in the crowd reaction during g that segment. But your completely downplaying, like didn't even mention, what HBK did. Take any generic wrestler...have wrestler X inadvertently cost the babyface the title, while also siding with the top heel. The. The next night have wrestler X demand respect from the babyface he cost the title. Those are all heel actions at the core. Does Bryan being over make it easier to boo wrestler X, absolutely, but don't act like he did it on his own.

    ReplyDelete
  33. It amazes me how epic and awesome the first Rock - Cena match was and how much of an afterthought the second one was.

    ReplyDelete
  34. Plus at least some cool promos the first time through. His last run is legitimately underrated. I thought he looked great in that survivor match and cena vs rock 1 was a great match. The two cm punk matches were underwhelming only because of the sky high expectations. Both matches are actually good (I'd say way better than hhh vs brock trilogy, hhh vs punk the last two bryan vs orton matches, the adr vs sheamus string of matches, in fact, most wwe main event matches). The build to cena rock2 was bizaare because of poorly it was booked/how busy rock was and the first half of the match was bad but the second half got really good.

    ReplyDelete
  35. Exactly. If he had worked a handful matches as practice those matches could have been great.

    ReplyDelete
  36. Mrs. *Lorenz* is doing just fine. You, on the other hand, clearly need some reeducation.


    :: heating wire hanger with a Bic lighter ::

    ReplyDelete
  37. Its your fault that I will be referring to her as Mrs. todd... if you would get a gimmick name this would be a lot funnier and fit with the BoD naming convention.

    ReplyDelete
  38. Totally. Listen to that Mania 28 crowd just freak out at the mere ringing of the opening bell. People were absolutely jacked for that match, and then a year later the crowd couldn't have given less of a shit.



    I think the major difference was that going into Rock-Cena 1, people had no idea who would win. With the rematch, there wasn't a single person who didn't already assume Cena was getting the win. They basically had to heavily tease a Cena heel turn the week before Mania 29 just to drum up ANY anticipation for it, and even that didn't work. I tell ya, I was at Mania 29 weekend and there was just zero buzz for Cena/Rock. Fans were basically jacked for Punk/Taker and Mania itself, but not the Rock/Cena match.

    ReplyDelete
  39. I would love a heel punk vs babyface cena six week mania build and 30 minute blow off match more than anything and wm29 would have been a great place to do it.

    However if there's no rock for wm28 there is no doubt they bring lesnar back a month or two earlier and do Brock vs cena in the main event

    ReplyDelete
  40. I have no problem with cena getting his win back, I just wish it had been at a different ppv

    ReplyDelete
  41. Or AT LEAST some kind of Rock & Cena vs jobber team (say the Rhodes SCholars) on the road to Mania 29. Would have been so easy to set up. You have Rock and Cena cutting a promo on eachother, Rhodes Scholars attack from behind, and BAM you have a main event set up for the following Raw that gets monster ratings, without exposing Rock at all. He could basically come in for the hot tag and do his signature moves for the win, and then some kind of spot with cena afterwards.

    ReplyDelete
  42. more afraid I'm going to run out of questions :)

    ReplyDelete
  43. I loved his return. I got really really annoyed at how he was portrayed during the 28 build. I wish they would have just gone with the simple "returning WWE legend vs tope current WWE star. Let's fucking see who's better." Not this "you sold out, I'm a loyal wwe guy thing." I'll never understand why they'd try to take some of the shine off him like that, besides it being an ego thing for Vince.

    ReplyDelete
  44. I managed to finally get the "effinggoon" name to change on Disqus, but the moment had long since passed. I don't really use gimmick names anywhere, so I don't really have anything in mind. I am open to suggestion.


    oh, wait...I think I may have something....

    ReplyDelete
  45. Finally we agree on something! Rock/Cena 1 was one of the few big matches I can remember that I had no idea the direction they'd go with it. That was one of the biggest appeals to me

    ReplyDelete
  46. If Rock's not there and they keep Cena-Miz for the WWE title, we get the Undertaker-Triple H match as the Main Event. Guaranteed.

    ReplyDelete
  47. Yup. Would have been great if they put the WHC on Cena heading into Royal Rumble '13 and done Rock vs Cena for that title there.

    ReplyDelete
  48. Dafuq...apparently, a post vanished, or I forgot to actually click the button. How's this for a gimmick name? I don't really use one anywhere.

    ReplyDelete
  49. Hahaha. Dude, Wrestlemania 28 is just one of the best built wrestling cards of all-time, at least as far as the main events go. Rock/cena, HHH/Taker in the Cell, and Punk/Jericho for the title--- that totally deserved the buyrate it got. That's a fucking STACKED show, and yeah the main event brought the goods.

    ReplyDelete
  50. Oh for sure.

    ReplyDelete
  51. I liked some of the build, just HATED how they portrayed Rock as the "sell out outsider." It did the biggest buy rate ever, so who am I to judge I guess.

    The thing I always found interesting was that Meltzer was always reporting that Cena was scheduled to go over Rock until the day of the show. I find this almost implausible since I bet that Cena/Rock 2 wirh Cena getting his win back was always the endgame. I wonder if WWE was just working us or if something really did change in their minds.

    ReplyDelete
  52. Unless Rock changed his mind and decided to sign up for the 2013 run right before Mania 28, then yeah I imagine they were planning to put Rock over the entire time. There's just no way to do the Rock/Cena rematch with Rock losing the first one, unless Cena turns heel in the first one. Once Cena gets the babyface win, all the air is out of the balloon. Just look at the crowd reaction post-Mania 29: people were PISSED that Rock lost to Cena, and specifically they were pissed AT ROCK. Once he loses to Cena, the shine is off his star. No way they could do that in the first match and still plan on a rematch.

    ReplyDelete
  53. IIRC it was pretty well known that Rock was signed on for 3 WMs when he came back.

    Yea, there is no way to do the rematch without Rock going over at 28.

    A part of me wishes that they put Cena over just so I could have seen the vile crowd reaction. Would have been tremoundous

    ReplyDelete
  54. Not exactly playing to the "What If", but just a thought about Cena/Miz/Rock at mania 27... Why teh fuck did Miz get that win? In retrospect it's such an absurd choice. I mean, at the time it would have made sense if the plan was to move Miz away from Cena and keep pushing Miz as a main event heel. Then sure, give him the Mania win. But cena just won the title back the NEXT MONTH on a B-PPV, and Miz slid down to being a lower-card guy with teh Riley feud.


    If the plan was to do the epic Cena/Rock match the next year, wouldn't it have made more sense to put Cena over strong at Mania 27? Still could have done the same basic ending. Cena goes over Miz, then Rock hands Cena the belt, we think it's handshake time... then BAM Rock gives Cena a Rock Bottom and celebrates to close the show. Next night you set up Cena vs Rock at Mania 28, but this time A) Cena hasn't just lost to the MIZ, and B) You don't have the awkwardness of Rock basically turning heel and helping Miz retain the title.


    Anyway, just something that always seemed bizarre to me.

    ReplyDelete
  55. Ah, they just would have done what they did at Mania 29 and drowned it out with the theme music.



    The interesting thing to me would have been the crowd reaction to Rock if he had appeared live on Raw the night after Mania 29. There's no doubt in my mind he would have been booed out of the building, and if they had done the "Lesnar-beats up Rock" segment on Raw, as was the rumored plan, the crowd absolutely would have been cheering Rock's beatdown.

    ReplyDelete
  56. I'm pretty sure Steve Austin said he would have to work a full 3 month schedule to be ready for a big Wrestlemania match. They really did Rock and the fans a huge disservice by not having him wrestle on Raw, imagine those ratings and how hard they could pimp Wrestlemania to some new eyes.

    ReplyDelete
  57. It always was bizarre to me bc Rock essentially helped the heel overcome the babyface. I think Miz wwas used as a prop to fuel the Cena/Rock thing the next night. It's laughable now but I also think they REALLY liked Miz at that point and wanted him to stay near the top of the card at that point.

    It's retarded and I think they could have gotten there another way but I'd bet that was there thought processm

    ReplyDelete
  58. I agree they out a lot into Miz and then just gave up on him. He was still a big player until they blew up Awesome Truth.

    ReplyDelete
  59. I liked that whole "HHH conspiracy thing vs Awesome Truth" thing they did. It just sizzled out and never got paid off. It's just like they one day they decided the Miz sucks and he's done as an important guy.

    ReplyDelete
  60. The formula that would have made Mania 29 interesting is 1. heel Rock vs. Cena, OR Rock vs. heel Cena. IMO the fans were really ready for heel Rock and he can turn on heel mode like a Ferrari going from 0 to 60.

    ReplyDelete
  61. R Truth got suspended for smoking fake weed and both guys have been jobbers 4 life since.

    ReplyDelete
  62. I advocate almost anything involving heel Rock. A part of me thought that might be the reason he was being portrayed as a "sellout and outsider" by Cena. Thought it might be planting the seeds for a mini Rock heel run for 29.

    ReplyDelete
  63. Oh, they definitely loved Miz at that point. I bet that the awfulness of the Miz/Cena main event and how it had zero crowd heat might have been a reason why Miz was buried so quickly after Mania. It still just seems bizarre that they would put him over Cena at WRESTLEMANIA and then 3 months later he's jobbing to basically his butler, and not even on the Summerslam card. When Miz won that Mania main event I thought for sure he was keeping that title at least through Summerslam.


    And yeah, agreed about how Rock helping the heel win was just so bizarre. Frankly I'm surprised Rock even went for that plan. I mean, he basically helped the top heel in the company win the title against the top face in the company in the main event of their biggest PPV. Though, the next night the fans still cheered him as if they couldn't care less. Hmmmm, sounds a lot like a scenario that recently played out on Raw...

    ReplyDelete
  64. YUP. Having the rematch remain face vs face is what totally killed the heat. It's just so hard to do a build for a match when you can't have either guy do anything heelish (attacks from behind, cheapshots, heeling on the fanbase, etc). ESPECAILLY when it's the second (counting Mania 27, the THIRD) year of that same exact build. People were just numb to it.

    ReplyDelete
  65. Another thing while we are on the subject of The Rock, not to bitch about script writers but. . . Having failed soap opera losers try to write Rock was just ridiculous. At this point Dwayne Johnson is familiar enough with "The Rock" character to spit all the signature catch phrases. Rock and Cena are both good enough that they could ad lib or even shoot a little and build some really crazy promos. Instead we were stuck with the typical Raw promo format and it really killed the heat for the second match. I think Rock would have killed it on the mic if given a little more freedom. Actually you could say this is currently a problem for Cena, it seems like anytime they let him say his own shit he becomes a very compelling man. I would love to know how Vince Russo would have booked Cena - Rock, and please don't reply with a fucking pole joke.

    ReplyDelete
  66. Google is your friend. I won't post any links but there are plenty of ways to find the show with t.o.r.r.e.n.t.s. or r.a.p.i.d.s.h.a.r.e. or u.s.e.n.e.t.

    ReplyDelete
  67. I'm amazed that JTG/Hawkins/Tatsu among others are still employed by WWE. Are they scared these big names will go to TNA and make an Impact or something. I can't see an upside to keeping them under contract when they never get used, even on house shows.

    ReplyDelete
  68. They slot Chris Walker to face himself in all 3 main events instead. Literally every person on earth buys them leading to world peace. Chris Walker is like the Wyld Stallions

    ReplyDelete
  69. Same here, been watching for over 35 years and just can't get into the MMA crap. Find it boring and dull. Although the WWE is getting there too, I've already stopped watching Smackdown. I'm down to just RAW (on fast forward mostly), Impact (FF as well), NXT and Vintage.

    ReplyDelete
  70. How much of Rocks schtick do you think was scripted during his run. His first few promos were TREMOUNDOUS vintage Rock. Then they went with that weird work/shoot type stuff.

    It seems that his 29 run was pretty flat. I don't know whether it's because they reigned him in and made his stick to script, if 2years of build with Cena just got repetitive, or if his schtick just got dated...quickly.

    ReplyDelete
  71. I think the bigger problem with Rock's promos was simply that he was feuding with JUST CENA for almost his entire 3-year run. After awhile, how much more could be said about this one person? Especially when their story never had any twists or turns. They basically started (Rock's a cool legend babyface, cena's a dork babyface) and ended in the exact same spots. No changes to play off of. The Wrestlemania 29 build had the same exact talking points as the Mania 27 build. Not much to work with there.


    But when you look at the few times when Rock got to play off of other stars, the results were way better. Ever see that segment he did with the Rhodes Scholars on Smackdown? That was great and funny and felt very old-school-Rock. His stuff with Punk, especially that first promo duel, was awesome. To me the larger problem wasn't the staff writers, cause I'd bet Rock wasn't using very much from creative other than working directly with Vince. The problem was he was feuding with the SAME FUCKING GUY every time he appeared, and there was nothing to play off of.

    ReplyDelete
  72. Meltzer reported that Chris Walker was scheduled to lose to Natayla on the pregame, but was caught messing around with Mrs. Cena the night before and was pulled off the show as punishment.

    ReplyDelete
  73. Amsterdam_Adam_CurryNovember 11, 2013 at 10:57 AM

    Usenet still exists?

    ReplyDelete
  74. Yeah, I still use it. I pay less then 10$ a month for an unlimited usenet account and get almost everything that way. It's a lot quicker then torrents. I also have mine automated so as soon as certain things get posted it downloads right away. Best program on the computer :-)

    ReplyDelete
  75. Call me jaded, but his matches with Cena were not good and the matches with Punk were even worse. Dude had some serious ring rust and conditioning issues.

    ReplyDelete
  76. I'm going to disagree and say the Punk/Rock matches ain't that great, but I can see why some like them.

    The second Cena match, however, is just not good by any standard. Unless you enjoy the "trade finishers and lay around like you've been shot" aspect of WWE Main Event Style.

    ReplyDelete
  77. They did that with Awesome Truth before the previous PPV though and it didn't do much to promote the feud. I like the idea, but I can see why they didn't go back to the well.

    ReplyDelete
  78. I was at Survivor Series 2011 in MSG, and man oh man did Rock bring it in every way. That promo was awesome, people were completely into it, and the tag match was lots of fun. Sure it was basically a squash match, but the crowd was completely jacked for it. Then he did another post-show promo and MSG was rocking for that too.


    Yeah they completely botched the build for the match, but at the event itself Rock brought teh goods. His 2011-2012 run was great.

    ReplyDelete
  79. Well, he did feud with Punk for a couple months too. And Punk freakin' owned him on the mic.

    ReplyDelete
  80. They shoud reunite Awesome Truth with the new emphasis on tag team wrestling. Paranoid R-Truth is the best, and that team is better than anything those two are doing now.

    ReplyDelete
  81. Are things really that different if Rock never comes back? As noted in other comments, WWE loved the Miz so he would have presumably stayed in the WM27 main event. 29 probably would have been Cena vs. Punk's 500 day title reign. So the only matches that would be truly different are Cena at WM28 and Taker at WM29. Much like Punk right now, Taker is in his own little side-WWE universe so losing his WM29 match has no impact on the long term as they could just plug another random guy in there (Orton again?). I guess I just don't see huge waves since Rock was only around for a few months, in reality, and interacted with very few other wrestlers.

    ReplyDelete
  82. The entire top of the card was booked around him, essentially for two years. The top of WM 28 and 29 are both drastically different. The top of 27 might change also, depending on if WWE has enough confidence in Miz.

    I think Punk gets one of the top main matches, probably at 28.

    ReplyDelete
  83. I'm pretty much with you on this one, Farva. I think without Rock hosting WM27, we get Cena against someone more established than Miz. Probably another Cena-HHH. Maybe even Cena-Undertaker? Ideally, Punk-Cena and HHH-Taker, but I doubt they had the confidence in Punk headlinging yet. I think, without the Rock-Cena match looming for WM28, they either bring in Lesnar earlier to set up Brock-Cena OR they do Cena-Punk and HHH-Taker III. Without Rock, and Lesnar debuting when he actually did I think they spend the year building toward Cena's revenge over Lesnar at WM29. Maybe Punk-Taker still happens. Maybe they even do Taker-Cena at WM29.

    ReplyDelete
  84. I agree, although I think that match was dead in the water before it ever happened. Everything about that was geared toward Rock's participation, but he wasn't even in the match. It felt like Cena-Rock should be headlining, but Miz was there instead.

    ReplyDelete
  85. I haven't watched regularly in a LONG time, so I don't really have any "sense" for how big Jericho's return was...but did you guys get a sense that Punk-Jericho was a "big" match? Honest question

    ReplyDelete
  86. How about if WM29's use of Rock wasn't a Cena match? Punk-Rock could have been built up for that show too, especially if Punk stayed face and Rock had spent the year as Hollywood dickhead Rock building toward reclaiming "his" title. Have Punk retain to prolong his reign and give someone other than Cena a Rock match.

    ReplyDelete
  87. Yea, I think Punks run is altered the most. I'd be interested to see of Vince would have ran with Cena vs the hot Punk at 28 or if he would have inserted HHH or Orton into that spot. I think Brock vs Cena is almost a sure thing at 29

    ReplyDelete
  88. Yes. I totally think they could have had Rock come out after beating Cena and go full-blown "I'm the fucking best" Hollywood asshole mode. Then you can have guys like Punk (WWE Champ) take exception and say, "Dude, you haven't beaten the Best in the World". Rock decides he's gonna come back at 29 for HIS WWE title and take it away to Hollywood. Punk stays the everyman bucking the trends and Rock epitomizes the pretentious Hollywood "too good for wrestling" persona.

    ReplyDelete
  89. Maybe the Cena-Rock re-match at SummerSlam 2012?

    ReplyDelete
  90. Agreed. The "You Left" thing didn't work coming from Cena. Logically, it SHOULD, but it just fucking didn't. I do think CM Punk could have made the "you sold out and left" thing work a bit better, but I just don't think Cena could do it because half the crowd already didn't like him

    ReplyDelete
  91. At the time I recall thinking they should really milk the Cena-Rock build, without giving us too much. Do "The CeNation" vs. "The People's Team" and have Rock/Cena lead respective teams (giving some guys the rub in the process). Rock and Cena end up squaring off for a few punches, but you don't give up the aura of Rock vs. Cena.

    ReplyDelete
  92. Yea, I didn't even think of Punk playing that card. In your scenario above, you could have Punk playing that role and Rock finally turns and goes back to full heel mode for Rumble-WM.

    it made for an interesting build, buy it just took the shine off of Rock to much and diminished his future pull within WWE.

    ReplyDelete
  93. Most of the problems they have today ARE because of the split in 2002: Too many similar titles, too many former champions who haven't earned the title back then, devaluated champions, devaluated titles too much wasted talent, low ratings, low buyrates, Triple H as champion from 2002 to 2005, John Cena as champion, since 2005 etc..



    And you want it back? I don't get it.

    ReplyDelete
  94. Did Funk have money problems? He always seemed pretty well off, but I guess it's like an Olivier/O'Toole situation where they want to make as much money as possible for their kids.

    ReplyDelete
  95. I liked having two different shows with different styles. I liked having the roster change ups now and then to create fresh matchups, I liked the excitement of the rare matchup between folks from different brands. But yea the titles should of been remerged when they split went away.

    ReplyDelete
  96. Because the ratings go down during a match and up during the promos, I've thought they should try a show with only promos and only one main event match. Maybe it works. ;)

    ReplyDelete
  97. Your_Favourite_LoserNovember 11, 2013 at 12:49 PM

    well, the thing is, it's not up to me. i can't make someone reciprocate my feelings. i'm completely helpess and at the mercy of others, and like i said, there's a lot working against me that i can't change that unfortunately play a big role as a whole in my chances. it's like i always say, i have to try twice as hard just to fail.


    when i see couples showing pda in public, especially the female initiating, i honestly can never see any female wanting to act that way with me. i just cannot see myself ever being the object of anyone's affection. i'm just... broken.



    you really dont understand how hopeless and futile it feels. when you've never had it even though you have tried, you really dont have any reason to think you ever will.

    ReplyDelete
  98. By having more stories aside from just Punk and HHH getting stories and everyone else just having repeat matches until the change up the repeat matches each PPV

    ReplyDelete
  99. The WM highlights are his match with Brock with HHH doing inside commentary

    ReplyDelete
  100. Amsterdam_Adam_CurryNovember 11, 2013 at 1:11 PM

    Shit, I'll have to look into that.

    ReplyDelete
  101. Amsterdam_Adam_CurryNovember 11, 2013 at 1:14 PM

    I'm officially tired of this running joke.

    ReplyDelete
  102. Porn-Peddling Jef VinsonNovember 11, 2013 at 1:16 PM

    ...it's the dawning of Aquarius.

    http://youtu.be/f0G8XJNz4bY

    ReplyDelete
  103. Yeah, I think Punk-HHH at Wrestlemania 28, with HHH putting him over big, would have been preferable, even with Rock-Cena on top. Undertaker-HHH didn't have much suspense anyway. they would have had to build up an opponent for Taker though, maybe a Mark Henry?


    For 29, I think Punk defending against heel Rock, with Lesnar-Cena underneath could have been something more interesting than Rock-Cena II

    ReplyDelete
  104. Amsterdam_Adam_CurryNovember 11, 2013 at 1:19 PM

    I personally thought that Rock's comeback totally sucked (from a quality POV, not a financial one), though I'll admit I've never been a fan of his to begin with. I just feel like they wasted 2 years that could have been spent building up the next star(s) just for a quick buck.

    ReplyDelete
  105. Had Miami been chosen as the WM28 site before Rock finalized his return? I wonder if WWE went with Miami as a carrot to get Rock to appear, or perhaps if the fact that Miami had already been picked was one of the reasons Rock decided to get back in the ring.

    My point is that if you remove Rock from the equation, does Miami still get Wrestlemania 28?

    ReplyDelete
  106. Same. I felt like it had jumped the shark a bit, but people kept clamoring for it so I aimed to please.

    ReplyDelete
  107. The first girl I was in love with was 12 but looked 15(I was 13). She, of course, didn't know it, because I never realized that there was such a thing as a long-term future and that asking out a girl and getting rejected would not be remembered by anyone longer than three weeks. When you are in school, three weeks seems like forever, but I couldn't go into a time machine and give 13 year old me the benefit of 21 year old me's experience.


    So of course, this girl proceeds to sleep with the most cocky, arrogant jock in our elementary school, and of course in 3 years she cheats on ArrogantJock with a black guy without ArrogantJock ever knowing, and of course by the time shes 18 theres an abortion, she breaks up with ArrogantJock, and last I heard shes playing Shooting Guard on a small time Canadian college basketball team(curiously away from home despite her being a top-flight prospect in high school, so it was likely the abortion that gored her on her own sword).


    Looking back I should've just taken the chance and tried to lose my virginity at 13, which would give me more confidence and a high school girlfriend. It might've led to me watching my weight and not having trouble getting a GF better-suited to me now. But of course, you can't make these decisions at 13 because you think you know.....but you don't. Really, I don't even care about the sex these days, because if thats the basis for a relationship then its doomed to failure. I want a GF that shares my interests and aren't hooked up the the MTV/Kardashian IV. Someone I can have a conversation with without the temptation to go on a 10 minute profanity laced tirade about the frivolous bullshit that is a stream of some reality show playing on the latest iPhone. There are such girls, and I meet them once a week at a manga club meeting, problem is none of them would go out with me cause I'm not attractive or they have nerdy BFs like me that are rail thin thanks to metabolism.


    It could be worse, really, They could hate me for it and then they wouldn't even call me friend. Friendzone is better than being told to leave the damn room zone.

    ReplyDelete
  108. Amsterdam_Adam_CurryNovember 11, 2013 at 1:25 PM

    You're the last person that I expected an upvote from.

    ReplyDelete
  109. Like I said. I am about done with it also, and probably would have before now if people didn't keep bringing it up. Were I not doing it i would have tired of it far sooner... also, I am just a complex fellow.

    ReplyDelete
  110. "Yeah, I think Punk-HHH at Wrestlemania 28, with HHH putting him over big..."


    I know we are fantasy booking, but I don't know of any reality or fantasy where this would happen.

    ReplyDelete
  111. Amsterdam_Adam_CurryNovember 11, 2013 at 1:30 PM

    Fun fact: I had never even heard of Chris Walker until that thread a couple days ago. I wouldn't recognize him if he were standing in front of me.

    ReplyDelete
  112. Fun Fact: You are talking to him right now

    ReplyDelete
  113. It definitely sounds like you need a good wingman.

    ReplyDelete
  114. Ugh that's rough. At the risk of blame shifting or whatever I do think the way domestic violence charges work in this country is a little fucked up. I understand that typically men are the more aggressive / physically stronger gender (or whatever PC term is used for being born with a willie), and women should be protected, but at the same time, thinks can A) escalate and B) women get the benefit of the doubt over men way more often than not.

    it's tricky.

    ReplyDelete
  115. Yeah I had this situation happen to me recently too, over the course of 3 years. A year removed from the ultimate fall out I still think about it (It's my actual great white buffalo) but It's less with anger and pain and more with a sorrowful resignation and a sigh that doesn't really affect me all that much.

    ReplyDelete
  116. Yeah, the legal system worked in my case. My issue was being out something ridiculous like $1500 for bail money. Technically, I could have sat in holding for 48 hours and skipped bail, but I had a job I was worried about. Plus, I don't mind saying I was FUCKING FREAKED OUT. I was something like 22 or 23.

    ReplyDelete