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Lightning Round 463

Everyone loves Lightning Rounds, but how bout something with a bit of a twist to them. Best matches for people who weren't having them or having them with only a select group of talent (a.k.a Shawn or Bret)....

Davey Boy Smith - Singles Match, Post-Bulldogs Era, Not vs. Shawn, Bret, or Owen

That's pretty specific.  Probably I'd say one of the Hennig matches on Coliseum video.  

Andre The Giant - Heel run of 1987 and later.
 
Against Bret in Milan?

Brutus Beefcake - Singles Only. I won't be cruel enough to say "WCW Only".
 
The Dream Team blowoff against Valentine was good, and I recall him having a really good one against Savage in late 89.

The Undertaker - Pre-Attitude Era, Not vs. Mick Foley, Shawn, or Bret.
 
I'm gonna say Warrior because they were decent enough.  

And how bout some not-so-good's for the hell of it with the obvious choices of "great" workers:

Worst Bret Hart Match

Any of his shitty Dino Bravo abominations on Coliseum video.  

Worst Shawn Michaels Match

He had some bad ones on TV in 97 when he was high all the time.  

Worst Ric Flair Match

JY motherfuckin' D in 1990.  

Comments

  1. Was Bulldog one of those secretly shitty wrestlers? I think he only had 2 singles pay per view matches during his run in 1990/1992.

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  2. Well, he got Rock Bottomed into THE DOG POOP, so he was definitely s***y on that night.

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  3. Undertaker - Diesel from Wrestlemania XII was good. Not great, but good.

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  4. Brutus vs. Savage on SNME was awesome.

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  5. Hmm...JY motherfuckin' D. I wonder...

    Scott motherfuckin' Keith

    Brian motherfuckin' Bayless

    Jef motherfuckin' Vinson

    Para motherfuckin' llax

    Officer motherfuckin' Farva

    Yeah, that pretty much works all the time, doesn't it?

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  6. Yeah, Brutus turned in some good matches for about 12-15 months before the parasailing accident. I seem to recall a really good match he had with Rude too.

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  7. I liked that one myself. The story was really good and it was the first time in a while that Taker seemed to be going against a "real" opponent instead of Kama, Bundy, etc.

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  8. Was watching a WCW pay-per-view on the network a couple of weeks back, and Junkyard Dog was in a match. Schiavone kept referring to him as "JY" - making a nickname for a nickname for a stage name.


    Also, for some reason, his constant referral of Bobby Heenan as "Bob" in some of Heenan's first few appearances were obnoxious.

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  9. I think you're thinking Shawn Michaels in '96 not '97. He didn't wrestle much on TV in '97 and when he did, he brought the goods for the most part. And even then his '96 matches weren't bad, just bad by his standards.

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  10. I've always thought he was a tad overrated myself. If he was with the right guy he was good, but then again '88-90 Lex Luger was the same and he's always given stick for sucking. For some reason Bulldog gets off the hook. If he wasn't in there with Bret, Shawn, Owen or Vader in WCW Bulldog kinda sucked. Luger with Flair, Steamboat, Pillman and Sting was pretty good, but I admit to being a bit of a Luger mark.

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  11. Yeah the match would of had a more dream match appeal if Diesel wasn't leaving for WCW a month later as it was obvious who was going to win the match.

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  12. There's a lower-level, if still intriguing "What If?"... "What if Beefcake doesn't have his face shattered?"


    He had just enough of the mix between look/charisma/work to be a solid upper-card guy. No, he'd never be a credible world champ, but maybe a decent run with the IC title?

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  13. I agree, plus the follow-up feud with Shawn was awesome, but really made no sense. "Diesel you just had your finished squashed and lost at Mania, here's a title match!" It was a cool visual though when Taker Tombstoned Diesel.

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  14. When you can't get past DUD against 1990 Flair... it's time to walk away, at least for a while.

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  15. Bulldog was a capable worker. Watch his matches pre-1997 and post-1998 and it's night and day on what type of worker he was and you'll realise that while Bulldog wasn't great pre '97, he was still talented and able to have great matches.

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  16. His match vs Hennig at WM6 wasn't bad. It was helped by a hot crowd and Perfect's acrobatic selling.

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  17. Yeah I didn't like title match build either. If WWF would have thought ahead they wouldn't of given Diesel his title match at February's IYH, at least then WWF could exlain that everytime a champion loses his belt, he has a clause to challenge for the belt again later down the line, which would explain why Diesel was getting that title shot.

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  18. Yeah it's easy to forget how over he was before the accident. He was in a ton of main events on B shows, etc. That accident just killed the momentum he had put together over a 2-3 year period. About 6-9 months into his Barber run he started to become pretty good.

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  19. Was he booked to win the IC belt?

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  20. Your_Favourite_LoserApril 30, 2014 at 1:58 PM

    you know who doesn't like lightning rounds?

    the bear from "the great outdoors"

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  21. Bulldog was a much better athlete than Luger (especially the '96 - '97 Bulldog), so he could bump better and keep a quicker pace.

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  22. Jef Vinson (Homewreckers Inc™)April 30, 2014 at 1:59 PM

    He actually had a good match against Hercules during his build for the IC title.

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  23. That's a good point -- I'm surprised JR didn't say that. He was pretty good in that time period of "fixing" (ie, adding logic to) some of the booking oversights while on commentary. It's literally a 30-second promo or quick mention on commentary.

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  24. What bad match did hbk have on TV between 1993 and 1997?

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  25. Jef Vinson (Homewreckers Inc™)April 30, 2014 at 2:01 PM

    I remember a bad match with Max Moon, although I don't know what year that was.

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  26. According to Beefcake he was at Summerslam 88, but Warrior threatened to quit so they said Ron Bass injured Beefcake and had Warrior sub for him and take the belt. He also said he was supposed to win at Summerslam 90 vs. Perfect, but had the accident.

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  27. When I was a kid I always wondered why Bulldog never got a shot at the belts especially after he lost the IC title to HBK, and especially after his return at that summer slam (94 I think)

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  28. "Bad match" is too much of a harsh term. Shawn Michaels didn't work a match that was lower than *1/2 during that period, but Shawn was having ** matches on a regular basis on TV in 1993 and 1996.

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  29. By the time he got to WWF Luger seemed to not care much and started to suck most of the time. I will say that Luger was protected much better (aside from NEVER winning the big one...) than Bulldog in that he was usually put in with good wrestlers like Flair, Steamboat, Pillman, Sting, Windham, Hansen, etc. while Bulldog was given guys like Warlord a lot.

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  30. It was '93 and again it wasn't a bad match. Michaels going through the motions is still capable of carrying guys to ** matches.

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  31. Was that legit poop? If so I feel really bad for Davey. Being lured back into the WWE for legal reasons with promises of main events etc and wound up getting slammed into poop, jobbed out and fired all over again.

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  32. That sounds like some sort of miracle working though sometimes guys have freaky chemistry together.

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  33. Because if he did they'd be booking themselves into a corner (where they liked and wanted to protect Bulldog but at the same time didn't like him enough to give him the actual belt) and we would of gotten a Dusty finish.

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  34. never seen a good bulldog match that wasnt with a stampede guy

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  35. However, wouldn't the infamous 8-on-2 cage match be at least as bad as Flair-JYD? Or is that DQed because Flair, despite eating the pin, was only a small part of that sad episode?

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  36. Yeah even spaced out Shawn wasn't ever "bad."

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  37. He got fired a few weeks after dropping the IC Strap to HBK in '92. When he returned he got World Title PPV shots against Diesel, Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels.

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  38. Didnt he called him JY in Mid South?

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  39. Watts used that shortening more than once, also.

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  40. I think I heard it was canned dog food, maybe mixed with something.

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  41. He was a very proficient worker who more than held up his end of the Bulldogs through their heyday in Stampede & Japan and stuff, but that was back when he was a normal size and build for someone of his height. He was limited during his singles runs as a result of doing all the world's steroids, as well as the drugs & booze, but you could tell he still had a grasp of what he was supposed to be doing out there.

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  42. Yeah, there's NO way that was legitimate feces.

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  43. shitty punches and kicks.


    Never was a fan

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  44. He had some good matches with Vader in 93.

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  45. Amsterdam_Adam_CurryApril 30, 2014 at 2:18 PM

    The OP said "match", not "total shitshow".

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  46. Given wrestlers general fondness for feces, it wouldn't be surprising if one wrestler pulled a rib by replacing the fake feces with the real thing at the last moment.

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  47. I don't think it was legit feces either, but with pro-wrestling's shit-obsessed history, I wouldn't be surprised if it was.

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  48. I remember being very excited for Shawn vs Flash Funk circa 97 and being pretty disappointed. It wasn't a bad match but it was clear he was phoning it in.

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  49. Beat me to it by a few seconds! But yeah, I mean, they tricked Mark Henry into literally EATING shit around that same period, so that wouldn't be beyond the locker room.

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  50. The Bob stuff is hilarious. Someone said that Heenan loathed Tony. I was watching Spring Stampede '98 last week and Heenan is making jokes about Prince Iaukea and Tony just ignores him for a few minutes before finally feeding him a variation on "will you stop!" I think those two were just a bad clash. Schiavone was best as a sports commentator type of guy and Heenan was from the sports-entertainment/comedy school of broadcasting. Both have their place, but that's an awkward teaming. Heenan and Bischoff were a little better in that Eric knew to respond in the annoyed babyface tone with Heenan, but he came off as more of a dick.

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  51. King Of The Ring '96 with Shawn was a great match.

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  52. I think that basically summed up Flash's entire stint in WWF. Scorpio was a terrific worker and could of had great matches, but seemed no-one cared enough to have a great match with him because they saw him as a job guy. Al Snow was the only one that worked a great match with him, and that was only because Snow was even lower on the totem pole than Scorpio was.

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  53. That Diesel match was aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaass...

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  54. There was a 3 year gap between Bulldog losing the IC title and getting world title shot, which became the main reason for his heel turn.

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  55. Considering he was out of the company for almost 2 years its not really that bad. Hell when he returned in 1994 he was put into a main event angle and then he got the big Rumble '95 push. The Allied Powers should have exploded and given Davey a big Summerslam '95 win to set up his world title shot but monkeys were clearly booking the company at the time.

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  56. Scorpio looked like shit his entire time in the WWF. Put down the cheeseburgers,hit the gym and eventually shed the Flash Funk gimmick and he could have had a solid run.

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  57. imma let you in on a little secret.


    The great matches from the first run, I can definitely appreciate but overall, I am not a fan of his first run.


    Like to me the Summerslam Ladder match is better than WMX
    I like Diesel Good friends, bitter enemies and ofc I love MindGames with Foley but other than that... nothing else wows me.


    Its like "meh"


    Especially at this time Im watching Malenko, Benoit, Mysterio and Eddy just tear it up week after week on free TV.


    Also, I absoluely loathe Davey Boy Smith. Thought he was terrible.


    If it wasnt with a stampede guy, i just wasnt interested. thats on both sides as well.

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  58. That's just weird. I could see "Junkyard" or something, but how hard is it to say one more letter?

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  59. Undertaker's best pre-Mankind match is probably with Diesel in WrestleMania 12. That match had no business being as good as it was.

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  60. I feel like the 96 king of the ring match might be DBS best match. He just seems like a dude that could be walked through a great match and not fuck it up but if he's on his own its not good. The Nash matches are a good example of what's wrong with him.

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  61. Scorpio also was pretty drugged up during this time, apparently.

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  62. I don't think it's all that surprising.

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  63. He also had a decent match with Kama at Summerslam.

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  64. I completely forgot that match!

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  65. Until recently, I never saw the JYD/Flair match at Clash of Champions... wow, was it awful.

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  66. Agreed. As the sender of the email, I meant a match where they were a primary focus. Flair was lost in a shuffle with 9 other people.

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  67. Why would you show up fat for a WWF run? Seriously how stupid is that? It's a bad idea overall, but of all the bosses to pull that on you pick Vince McMahon?

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  68. I'd say it's very easy to put on weight in WWE and I'm shocked that most wrestlers remain in good shape.

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  69. I remember the HBK-Sid match at Royal Rumble 1997 was really disappointing. Not Shawn's worst match or anything, but it wasn't as good as one would think. The story was Shawn had the flu and I don't know if that's the case or he was high or something, but whatever the reason it wasn't all that good.

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  70. After reading Dynamite's book I can't ever watch his weak ass clothesline without thinking about him worrying about tearing his pectoral muscle.

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  71. Presumably. Either way you can't get more lazy than the In Your House PPV name.


    I understand the 2 hour shows at a reduced price mindset, they were worried how the fanbase would react to monthly PPV's especially when business was in the toilet already. But that doesn't excuse them for the In Your House debacle.


    At least TRY and come up with some decent names and more especially concepts at such an important time business wise.

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  72. Plus he was there against Sid. Not the easiest guy to carry.

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  73. AverageJoeEverymanApril 30, 2014 at 3:10 PM

    Id say for Bulldog its vs Vader during his 93 WCW run and for UT it is vs Diesel at WM12

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  74. Maybe, but I seemed to remember their match at the previous Survivor Series as being really good. Also, Bret and Sid had a really good match at the December ppv.

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  75. I agree their Survivor Series was really good, but doesn't mean you'd be able to carry a limited guy like Sid everytime you wrestle.

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  76. I agree with your point, and while acknowledge that Sid is limited, I think he was quite able to be carried to good matches. I'll give you, if he was in there with a bad worker, there was no chance of a good match, but he definitely could have good matches with the right guy. Granted, this could be a lot of memory being kind to history more than anything.

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  77. The main problem with Sid as a worker compared to other big guys is that Sid didn't like to move around too much and always walked like he had a pole shoved up his ass. He has had good matches, but compare that to a guy like Diesel, who's probably had more good matches.

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  78. I don't agree, he came back got a nice pop at summerslam 1994, jobbed to diesel at survivor series 1994, ran the gauntlet at the rumble 1995, then did nothing until his heel turn late in 95..



    He could've done something as a face but they waited, put him in a shitty tag team with Luger that went nowhere, then turned him heel and jobbed him out, he never had a chance..

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  79. Yeah, Nash takes a lot of crap, but when he felt like it, he actually was okay.

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  80. I know he's probably had worse, but Bret vs Taker at Royal Rumble '96 was awfully dull.

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  81. Wasn't that the match that went like 24 minutes, and ended in Shawn and Diesel both interfering? That match was way too long.

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  82. I can excuse wrestlers having bad matches, even great wrestlers, just because human beings aren't machines that can produce the same output everytime, but wrestlers having bad matches that's a main event of a PPV is pretty hard to defend because that's the one time wrestlers should be trying.

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  83. HBK was on fucking fire in 97'. I'm not sure he had one bad match.

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  84. Shawn vs Sid at the Rumble wasn't that great.

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  85. Titus O'Neil reminds me of Sid in that way. He has moments where he moves like an athlete, but for the most part he seems stiff and lumbering.

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  86. I might be exaggerating but I seem to recall at one point during that match Undertaker basically having a claw on Bret for about 5 straight minutes.

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  87. Tell me. You did not just say that.

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  88. its not hard when you take off a total of 4 months

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  89. Who can have a better match with Sid than that?

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  90. Bulldog had the PPV match with Rock and was in the 6-Pack Challenge main event ... Did he have another high-profile PPV match from that period?

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  91. I was gonna say the same thing. Certainly the Undertaker matches are all-time classics and in some ways so is the Survivor Series against Bret. There was the great tag match with Austin where they won the titles and the King of the Ring match where he fought Austi which was better than their WM14 match. Throw in some pretty good TV matches against Foley and Owen and god-like heel promos and I call 1997 of Shawn's best years.

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  92. Yeah, that match is really bad. I think Scott gave it **1/2, which floored me. It has some decent brawling segments, but Bret works the leg the whole time and zombie Undertaker forgets about it.

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  93. They made up for it in '97.

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  94. Nash's better matches is when he had another guy that was willing to bump like crazy for him or he was able to easily toss them around (e.g. HBK or Bret). The only good matches of him against another tall guy would be the Undertaker and Razor.

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  95. Did the Bulldog EVER beat HBK? Seems like the guy was snake bit when facing him. Lost the IC title to him in '92, lost to him at KOTR '96, lost the Euro title to him at One Night Only '97, and then lost a RAW match here and there against him too.

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  96. He was still in the mindset of making his opponent look good damned how talented he was.
    See also Gigante, El.

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  97. He had two really good matches with Vader (Slamboree and a Clash) and the Havoc match with Regal.

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  98. I'd take IYH over "Hell in a Cell" and gimmick-labeled PPV's that limit booking options.

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  99. He had a surprisingly good match against the Giant in WCW too.

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  100. Yeah, seems like Hogan vs Savage in that regard where Hogan had to go over every single time.

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  101. Bischoff could be funny, like when he would describe kicks as "front leg round back kicks" or something. I would always be like "WHAT?!?!?!"

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  102. I didn't find out until after WrestleMania that Diesel was leaving. so for young me this really felt like a very huge match (and a great kind-of "co-main event" for WM).

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  103. Hbk did at survivor series.

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  104. The Mr. Perfect series was a total dumpster fire. Too guys with great bumping skills and shitty offense does not make for a good match.

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  105. Ooh, ooh, also...that Warlord match at WM7 is not going to be confused with Liger vs. Sano or anything, but it was way better than it had any right to be.

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  106. Beefcake was a pretty solid worker right before the parasailing accident. He also wasn't as bad as everyone made him out to be in the 80's.

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  107. Sort of closed out the year on a down note with the Shamrock match.

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  108. Just about to say that.

    Had a good match with Booker T too.

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  109. Hercules was actually a good worker during his face run

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  110. Nash has had a ***** match, a couple of **** matches and a few that range from ** - ***3/4. He's way better than Sid in my opinion.

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  111. during his championship run? afair he carried everyone to a watchable match during that phase.

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  112. Sid carried that match.

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  113. high HBK was better than at least 70% of the roster.

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  114. lobsterhead, BIIIIIIATCHApril 30, 2014 at 4:23 PM

    Taker/Diesel > Taker/Warrior

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  115. the most expensive piece of luggage.

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  116. Or drive away in jyd's case.

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  117. That's what I'm saying. A ** match is watchable, but he rarely worked a *** match on Raw in '96. The only good matches I can remember was his match against Waltman and Jannetty.

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  118. I think they got it right after the first few ones, instead of putting the emphasis on "In your House" putting it on the "subtitle" like "Good friends, better enemies" or "Beware of Dog".

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  119. Ok, how about Randy Savage's best match during these circumstances......
    In August 1988....
    Only on Tuesday nights in the months of May and June....
    Only when he's wearing his orange trunks.....
    Only when Liz has a black dress on....
    Lumberjack match only....
    Only when he bleeds hard-way.....
    Only wrestling in Maple Leaf Gardens....
    House show only....
    And only when brother Lanny opens the card and jobs to Terry Gibbs.....

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  120. I understand Flair's effort, but the match was 7 minutes of JYD refusing to sell anything, and then Ole running in to save Flair from what look like certain defeat. JYD was disgustingly out of shape, too, and this was on a card, among other head scratchers, where Brian Pillman was being buried because Ole didn't like him for reasons unknown (good looking? talented?)

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  121. Yeah, that was an above average 'power' match, and Bulldog did well working with one of the biggest ever stuffs in The Warlord.

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  122. Shit Shawn even got to act like wanting to bangDavey's hot wife was beneath him, and he got throw Davey's knee brace at his sick sister at the UK ppv lol.

    I guess Davey's best moment against Shawn in kayfabe was the double pin at beware of Dogg. I think Shawn still threw the suplex that led to it though?

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  123. Good call. That was a decent match somehow.

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  124. Okay so you want Shawn to have a good match with Sid and then top it with a better match with Sid? Want him to walk on water while he's at it?

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  125. Just the fact that Shawn got one great match out of sid is mind blowing to me.

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  126. So were the Outlaws. It's who you know.

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  127. It's a shame Coliseum Video butchered it to 2 minutes of nothing. Who would've ever guessed these two could hit 3-stars? (my personal rating for it, opinions will vary)

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  128. He barely wrestled in 1997. He was either losing his smile or going home because he got smacked around by Bret.

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  129. Shawn may have been drugged out of his mind, but I'm sure not even HE thought he could walk on water.


    (Note: Although if he tried, I'd love to hear the drugs involved in that story.)

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  130. Sorry can't do it but Macho and Million Dollar man had a cage match from Maple Leaf Aug 7, 88

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  131. I dunno. DBS vs Owen for the Euro title blew my mind when I saw it.

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  132. Threadjack: Best Wyatt Family shirt ever?

    http://www.whatamaneuver.net/shop/run-wyatt-family

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  133. Scoot is acting like he had a bunch of bad matches in 97' and that is just ridiculous. People below are just reaching for bad matches. Yeah he had a couple mediocre matches with the likes of Sid and Ken Shamrock, big deal. HBK was on fire and did his very best work that year.

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  134. Didn't he get those because Vince wanted to show up Luger for leaving?

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  135. Liz was wearing a green dress that night, not black!

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  136. Flair vs Hogan in TNA sucked pretty hard.

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  137. It was black on the inside. Don't ask how I know that.

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  138. The only HBK TV matches from 1997 I can recall are the tag title switch and the return match against Mankind which was also Rick Rude's return, and both ruled.

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  139. You have the same one?

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  140. also He had a fantastic match vs. Owen Hart in December and a cool tag match w/Triple vs. Undertaker / Mankind were he destroys Undertaker with a chair.

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  141. His match with Goldberg at Spring Stampede was surprisingly good, too. Includes Nash doing a leapfrog (!!!) and some actual moves.


    As I've often said (and, boringly, have already said in this thread), Nash could definitely work back in the day - it was just rare that he was motivated, and he wasn't particularly great at it. I see him in the vein of a lot of the late-80s talent - rarely involved in anything special, but generally watchable.

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  142. Mick Foley reminds me of Bill Cosby in that bit Eddie Murphy did, as fate would have it, on 'Raw'.

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  143. I agree that he's definitely a corporate shill but, to me, that's just the name of the game these days. If it were Monsoon and Heenan/Ventura these days, it'd be the exact same for them, sadly.


    I personally cannot stand JBL with his constant talking over the other two and fake laughs. Lawler has been grating since coming back in 2001 and, hot damn, 13 years is a long time to be that annoying.

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  144. You all missed his point, it wasn't that Cena wears merchandise, it's that he wears EVERYTHING; wristbands, hats, shirts, blow pops, socks, underwear... all at the same time.

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  145. Hogan, Rock and Austin all sold losses. They got pissed and went on a tear.

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  146. Haaaaa myyyy man! That's for entertaining my sarcasm. Truly. Thanks for the laugh.
    Or as ONLY Hollywood would say....."The Multi-Million Dollar Man"
    Or his other favorite "Paul Orndauf"

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  147. TJ: http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2014/story/_/id/10862689/portland-trail-blazers-wear-dr-jack-ramsay-honorary-patch-jersey


    Extremely cool gesture.

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  148. I don't know what you're calling his prime, but there are lot of a Flair matches from the mid-90's on I don't like at all. Many of them weren't so much bad (although some were), but by that point I found the Flair formula tired and boring.

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  149. Bret Hart vs Andre? This happened? That's like a dream match locked away or lost in a vault somewhere. I'm sure it was no mat classic but talk about rare and obscure. Im scratching my head right now that this happened. Amazing. Sweeeeeeet.
    All I envision is the Wrestlemania 2 Battle Royal and Andre tossing Bret over the top rope to win as their only encounter.

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  150. No love for Bulldog vs Vader?

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  151. Best '87-and-beyond Andre match is probably the LA house show title match with Savage. Thought that was genuinely good. Even old immobile Andre was at least a smart worker, if not a good one. Plus Savage could get a good match out of him by basically wrestling a brick wall.

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  152. Worst Shawn Michaels match....vs. Undertaker, Wrestlemania 26. Biggest rematch fail of all time.

    No, in all seriousness, HBK had plenty of drizzling shit matches. His Unforgiven 03 match with Randy Orton put me to sleep and the two had plenty of other suckfests. Also vs. Kennedy though I know where to place the blame there.

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  153. They are doing the same thing with Kane. Extreme Rules is basically Good Friends, Better Enemies II and Kane lost a lot more embarrassing WM match than Diesel.

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  154. He was booked to win the belt at Summerslam 90 right before the accident I thought and then they gave it to Von Erich.

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  155. Their travel schedule back then was all like New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts and Pennsylvania. Lots of Philly Cheesesteak on the road, few fruits and vegetables and sensible meals at home.

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  156. Didn't he have a shitty LMS against HHH, where they disguised a poorly constructed match with a lot of blood? It ended in a double countout, IIRC.

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  157. Yeah of their singles matches everything but the December 03 and Summerslam 02 matches are the worst.

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  158. Also is there a worse gimmick in WWE history than Last Man Standing? The ref standing around counting...just wake me when it's over. The only ones I ever recall being decent are HHH vs. Jericho and Cena vs. Umaga. The "double countout" is totally contrary to the point of the match, too.

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  159. I'm a Cena Heel Turn Guy, I make no apologies. I see many of the apologists below (@Vince Jordan) and I hear you. The problem is this storyline with Bray blows because Cena is getting booed out of the freakin' building every night. Heel Cena is $$$, and a feud with Daniel Bryan would do ridiculous business. Evil Cena shirts would be right up there with nWo and Austin 3:16. Then after a year you turn him back and fans actually cheer for him.

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  160. That is a pretty stupid one but it's significantly less annoying if the gimmick is done in the "Don't get burned" fashion rather than the "You must burn your opponent" fashion. Also it doesn't tend to get mixed up with the title like LMS does.


    WWE just doesn't do gimmicks well. Hell in a Cells where they don't go on top of the cage...yawn.

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  161. That's my biggest issue with Cena. No matter the circumstances, he always comes out in his hat, t-shirt, wrist bands, arm band, shorts, and knee pads. It would go a HUGE way if he just came out wearing jeans and a John Cena t-shirt during promos.

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  162. I wish I could've seen one of those alleged Ric Flair-El Gigante matches that went ***.

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  163. Undertaker and Batista had an awesome Last Man Standing match in 2007. Alberto Del Rio and Big Show had one last year that, while not great, utilized the dynamics of the stipulation perfectly,

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  164. It's not very good IMO because Andre is so immobile. Match happened in Milan, Italy.

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  165. They shouldn't go on top of the cage. The whole point of HIAC is to stay in the cell. It defeats the purpose if everyone always escapes.

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  166. Just have a regular cage match then? What is the point of the cell other than to build on the drama of the original two?

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  167. The announcers were talking up that Big Show/ADR match on Elimination Chamber 2013...wasn't that from the time they thought the fans were going to get behind Del Rio with the "I'm from Mexico; but I love America" business as a babyface?

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  168. Well there's no point to it anymore but it should be the match where you guaranteed blood and insane weapons. Just sheer brutality.

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  169. While it might have been corny, the ending to Cena/Batista (duct taped legs around the ringpost to keep Batista down) was a nice touch.


    That was LMS, right?

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  170. But there's no guarantee of weapons in the cell. Doesn't make any more sense than them getting out. I think the spectacle of people fighting on top is the point.

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  171. Yes. That match was awesome.

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  172. It was....dear God. Bottom ten finish of all time.

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  173. The fans did for a short while, especially once Ricardo got involved... but then ADR turned back for no good reason.

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  174. I think that's the infamous "flu match."

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  175. I don't mind it once in a while, but they shouldn't have to keep coming up with convoluted ways to get them out

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  176. I just don't know why they thought Swagger would be the heel with the "We The People" stuff...wrestling has made money on babyface xenophobia since forever.

    I don't know why they kept trying to split Ricardo from ADR. He's intrinsic to the character. Without each other they are nothing.

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  177. It would have been better with something like cuffs or a power/mic cord used... but hey, Cena improvised on the spot.


    +1 for (semi) originality at least, even if the total effect was a negative.

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  178. This is ESPECIALLY true with guys like Hurricane Helms and Matt Hardy. These two were adored by the general Internet savvy audience, but once people came to realize how immature and crazy (respectively) they can both actually be in real life.

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  179. I think the announcers buried it as it happened or at least the next night after the crowd rejected it. That PPV was in Detroit and nobody I knew went or wanted to go. The product was just pretty ice cold then.

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  180. Could not disagree more. It was brilliant, never done before, and was a perfect excuse to set up one final rematch.

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  181. I think a big part of it is that (a) he always seemed to have an adversarial relationship with Triple H, and (b) since he was never viewed as "the" guy, he doesn't get away with the sort of stuff that Austin, Rock, and Hogan would.

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  182. Didn't look below, but what about the HBK vs. Perfect match everyone is disappointed in from SS93?

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  183. It's brilliant that a guy so muscled up his veins are bulging all over his body cannot escape some duct tape? I mean the finish made no sense even in the bizarro world of wrestling physics. Also, Batista left for 4 years after. They never did rematch.

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  184. They had a rematch the next month

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  185. 93 was fat HBK year. Did he have any great matches besides the Jannetty one in 93?

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  186. lol, are you kidding me? Duct tape wrapped over the lower part of his ankles? Zero chance that even the world's strongest man could have a chance of breaking that off.

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  187. Amsterdam_Adam_CurryApril 30, 2014 at 6:34 PM

    They had a horrifically boring HITC match, I know that.

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  188. No f'ing way. It's tape. I call mythbusters on that one. Anybody with adrenaline and a lot on the line would escape duct tape.

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