As I continue to make my way through the Network, I was wondering if you were down for a lightning round of the best match from these wrestlers:
- Chavo Guerrero, Jr.
- Billy Gunn
- Tommy Dreamer
- Shane Douglas
- Tito Santana
- The Miz
You had me at lightning round. Sniff.
Chavo: Chavo & Eddie v. Benoit & Angle v. Edge & Mysterio in one of those Smackdown Six mixtures.
Billy Gunn: He had a pretty good one with Benoit in 2000 when they were testing Billy out as a potential top guy and had him drop the IC title at Armageddon. It wasn't a GREAT match, but it was better than normal for Billy and the only memorable singles match with him that I can recall. He also had a shockingly good singles match against Bart during the initial aborted Gunns breakup.
Tommy Dreamer: Gotta go with the Raven finale in 97.
Shane Douglas: Most would say the first three way dance, but I've never been a fan. Clearly I've gotta go with Douglas & Steamboat v. The Hollywood Blondes in the ***** match from Worldwide.
Tito Santana: He had a HELL of a match with Flair on a European tour that made Coliseum video. Strike Force v. Hart Foundation was a good combination quite a few times as well.
The Miz: Watching him get knocked out by Barrett the night after Wrestlemania was pretty epic. For the real answer, probably that US title match with Daniel Bryan.
You could (and should) probably choose a Royal Rumble match for all of these guys.
ReplyDeleteFor Tommy I say the tag match from One Night Stand '06
ReplyDeleteNot sure if it's the same match, but Tito/Flair had a match at a go-home show right before SummerSlam 1992. What I remember the most was Flair giving Tito a few chops in the corner... And Tito selling the hell out of them, actually falling down to 1 knee. Then a clear awkward moment, as it might have literally been the first time that a face had EVER sold a chop from a Heel Ric Flair! It's like Flair didn't know how to react!
ReplyDeleteTJ: highspots.com is having a huge $5 DVD sale including some great ROH shows like Domination and Final Battle 2007, plus some later 2012 Dragon Gate USA and Evolve shows which feature some of El Generico's last indy appearances.
ReplyDeleteI need to see that Worldwide match like I need air.
ReplyDeleteA great random Billy Gunn match is The Smoking Gunns and Tatanka vs the Headshrinkers and Bam Bam Bigelow from Summerslam 1993. Just a ton of fun.
ReplyDeleteHell no! Faces sold for Flair's chops all of the time. It was only when they started making their superman comebacks that they started no selling.
ReplyDeleteI calling cop-out. These answers were mainly tag team matches. Almost defeats the purpose of the question. Yah u shudda said a battle or Royal Rumble for each.
ReplyDeleteOh, i'll take your word for it. I personally haven't seen that many of his full matches, but indeed, it was the 1st time that I noticed it happening.
ReplyDeleteTito vs. Valentine at the July 1984 MSG show was awesome
ReplyDeleteThere are 3 choices for Miz.
ReplyDelete1) Raw "anything goes/street fight/whatever" vs. Morrisson. Hot match, involved Miz kicking out of Starship Pain and planting Morrisson on the floor with SCF. Generally a hot match, good piece of business, got Miz's finisher more over than it was before. They honestly could have run that as a PPV match at the Rumble, where the Rumble is the big draw and nobody would have complained.
2) Miz vs. Bryan vs. Morrisson for the US title. Another street fight/garbage match that went into the stands. Right guy went over, Miz wasn't exposed too hard, Morrisson almost killed himself for our sins. Another good piece of business.
3) Miz vs. Bryan for the US title. I remember almost nothing of the match other than Miz looking like he was going to legit cry after losing the match, but I remember it being pretty good. Solid carry job by Bryan.
I can't even think of any other quality Miz matches. He wrestled Kofi about 1000 times over the years, usually over one of the mid-card titles. The match where he won the US title for the first time was pretty decent and the time that Kofi legitimately kicked him into next week (and then took the IC title from him on main event the next day) was pretty fun but neither of those matches cracked ***1/2 or anything.
Tito had an IC title match on SNME with Hennig right after Hennig won the tournament. Crowd was got throughout.
ReplyDeleteSMACKDOWN SPOILER!~
ReplyDeleteThey built a cage, hung it over the ring...and never used it for a match. First time ever?
This. Faces like Sting and Luger wouldn't sell them in the opening moments of the match, but then would sell them as the match progressed, and they became fatigued. Then, when it was time for the comeback, they would no sell, usually followed by clotheslines and press slam if it was Luger. Or, hip toss from the corner, drop kicks and press slam if it was Sting.
ReplyDeleteWell, they kind of do that with the Cell to hype up the PPV, perhaps this is the same thing?
ReplyDeleteAnd make it the second time.
Same here on the Falls Count Match.
ReplyDeleteWhat was the deal with the Gunn's match on Raw? Billy did an injury angle then disappeared, Bart just kinda floated around...there was no blowoff after that that I can recall.
ReplyDeleteTJ: He hasn't done it enough in his career, but Marian Gaborik's scary when he's on.
ReplyDeleteTJ again: I loathe the San Jose Sharks.
ReplyDeleteThe only real memorable Billy Gunn match I remember is when the Smoking Gunns beat Owen & Yoko for the tag titles the night after IYH 3. It was a huge upset and very unexpected since the WWF hyped an Owen-Yoko vs. Diesel-HBK rematch at some point.
ReplyDeleteOr even just the "Imma kick the crap outta ya" evil eye from Ron Garvin.
ReplyDeleteI wondered the same thing. They had a small blowoff later on the Survivor Series 1996 preshow where Bart beat Billy to be the sole survivor in their team match. When Billy was repackaged as Rockabilly he later squashed Bart. But yeah, their initial split and feud was ridiculous.
ReplyDeleteI was a HUGE Miz fan up until about three years ago - in mid-2011, after losing the title and jobbing to his former lackey, he just seemed to completely stop giving a shit, but before that? He was terribly underrated.
ReplyDeleteDude was a pretty good brawler, and never forgot exactly who and what his character was supposed to be - much like, say, a guy like Roddy Piper, his ability to just be an angry young man with a giant chip on his shoulder really added a sense of viciousness and desperation to his matches. The way he'd throw that corner clothesline (the one where he lands between the ropes) was amazing. He just wanted to stomp the hell out of everyone that told him he wasn't good enough, and it added a certain depth and realism to his in-ring work.
As for matches, along with the ones you mentioned, I'd say his matches at "Extreme Rules, 2011" and "TLC, 2011" were both 4* showings. He also had two or three really good TV matches with Cena (they seemed to have the weirdest/spottiest chemistry I've ever seen, as their TV matches were generally really good, but their PPV matches generally sucked).
Sad to see what's happened over the last few years, because he had come very far very quickly, and wasn't afraid to work his ass off in order to climb the ladder. I don't know if he got lazy after getting to "live the dream" of main-eventing WM, or if his terrible "WM27" match and subsequent loss of the title killed his spirit, but SOMETHING triggered a big change in him. He was one of my faves for a while.
Oh yeah! I forgot that match. I still remember my reaction to the attempted flying TRIPLE headbutt by the heels.
ReplyDeleteThey put up a cage for Owen Hart to do an empty arena in ring interview. It may have been after a show that ended with a cage match though.
ReplyDeleteI'm hoping the proposed Miz/Ziggler/Ryder stable ends up happening, that might get him motivated again.
ReplyDeleteI can't exactly remember when this was, but Miz had a really bad week. On TV he was supposed to catch Truth and he completely blew the spot and Truth got hurt (nothing serious). Then at the PPV in some multi-man match he blew a couple other really obvious spots and Jericho had to (as discreetly as possible) pull him aside during the match and just try to get through the match without getting anyone killed. That seems to be the exact moment the office lost faith in him. That and when he and Truth were punished for Survivor Series not drawing.
ReplyDeleteMy personal thought as to when his motivation up and abandoned him was right around the time Maryse left the company. The way I remember the story, she left on good terms and wasn't fired or anything but he quit giving a shit and trying to improve pretty much at that exact moment.
Well show me your list then.
ReplyDeleteYou should watch it on the Network. OH WAIT, you can't yet.
ReplyDeleteAh, yeah, changing my vote to that one. It was awesome, ****+ legit.
ReplyDeleteLove that four way; still remember not seeing it listed in the PWI Match of the Year nominees and wondering why Sting Vs Scott Steiner was better.
ReplyDeleteThis is how I feel after the sharks won in overtime tonight: http://i.imgur.com/0NH4u7E.gif
ReplyDeleteTito Santana was almost a lock to be MOTN throughout the entire 80's. Feels unfair to be lumped in with a lot of average (or worse) performers on that list.
ReplyDeleteThe Hollywood Blondes are criminally under represented on DVD; it's either the cage match at Slamboree or the 2/3 falls Clash match.
ReplyDeleteI'm thinking that "bad week" you mentioned was in 2012, since it was after Miz lost the title and Truth was back to being a face - Truth turned heel just after "WM27" (and headlined "Capitol Punishment, 2011" in June) and remained one until right around the end of the year, so it had to be around the time that Truth was returning from his Wellness Violation and targeting Miz.
ReplyDeleteAnd you're probably right about Maryse - probably not the ONLY reason, but almost definitely a contributing factor.
It'd play well to their strengths - Miz on the mic, Ziggler in the ring, and Ryder as the kind of "annoying corner-man" (along the lines of Syxx in the "nWo").
ReplyDeleteShane Douglas...his match with Haku on Prime Time Wrestling was pretty badass...
ReplyDeleteFor some reason I think if they still plan on doing it they'll pull the trigger this Monday during the Hugh Jackman segment. Just a hunch. Or maybe just plant the seed for the group forming.
ReplyDeletewas the billy gunn match the one (billy gunn) where he went to press slam benoit but his shoulder gave out again and he dumped benoit on his head, and was all like "you a'ight?"
ReplyDeleteTHAT'S B/C...
ReplyDelete24/7 > network
24/7 was showing '93 worldwides when they pulled the plug
For me, Shane Douglas vs Tully Blanchard in a one-hour draw in early ECW stands out. It was the complete opposite of anything they were doing, and reminded me of the old-school draws that were used in the 80's to build to a huge rematch. No, it wasn't Flair-Steamboat, but neither guy is. But for who was involved, it stood out.
ReplyDeleteCHOMP CHOMP
ReplyDeleteMy theory...after he got a taste of all that goes along with being "the top guy" in WWE, he started half-assing it to settle down to a more comfortable level with less responsibility.
ReplyDeleteYeah, weird Scott picking out a singles match for Billy as I can't remember a good singles match Billy had whereas Billy had a bunch of good matches as part of the Smoking Gunns and New Age Outlaws.
ReplyDeleteChavo: I prefer his WCW run over his WWE one, like Scott I can't settle on one match.
ReplyDeleteGunn: the dumpster match, though there are a few matches when he was teaming with Butterbean victim #129 that are quite good if you're into more old-school tag matches.
Dreamer: Gotta agree with Scott, it's the blowoff to my favorite angle ever. Though if you don't care about context and just want to see a crazy hardcore shit the main from the first ONS is the better actual match.
Douglas: The match where he jobbed the IC title to Hall, because fuck Shane Douglas. Never seen the Worldwide match.
Santana: Before my time, can't really say.
Miz: I attract Miz matches like I avoid crazy/pain-in-the-ass broads. Wait, I might have that mixed up... Anyway, I can't think of a Miz match I've ever seen that I like, though that would be a pretty small list.
CHALLENGEJACK!~
ReplyDeleteUsing only one Google search, find the answer to who has the longest current Wrestlemania winning streak.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=who+has+the+longest+current+Wrestlemania+winning+streak.
ReplyDeleteChavo might not be the known Guerrero but he was NOT an average worker in his prime. Guy could go.
ReplyDeleteWWF in 1996 was unfocused at best.
ReplyDeleteMiz and Morrison had a tag against Mysterio and Bourne a few years back that I remember rocking the proverbial socks off.
ReplyDeletethat's exactly why Miz & Morrison were such a good fit: they had more chances to play out their strenghts and hide their weaknesses.
ReplyDeleteto me the dumpster match from WrestleMania XIV is a personal favorite.
ReplyDeleteexactly. that's like claiming Owen Hart is average just because Bret Hart has had the chance to put on more classics (and I chose that phrasing on purpose: how good are the chances for you to put on **** or even ***** matches if you hardly get the possibility to do so?).
ReplyDeleteamazing match. and so well booked as well. everyone in it, even sixty-year old Terry Funk, looked like a million bucks.
ReplyDeleteDaniel Bryan 3 match winning streak?
ReplyDeleteSWERVE~!
ReplyDeleteI'm still not ready to believe you...
ReplyDeleteWhoa. CDN got served.
ReplyDelete3rd degree burns and all.
ReplyDeleteMost people don't know about that Tito, though. They remember the "El Matador" phase instead, where his career was winding down.
ReplyDeleteTito was, in fact, an awesome hand who managed to have some great matches/feuds with a lot of guys.
I didn't know there was such a demand for the Armstrong Brothers vs the 3 Faces of Fear, and for Ravishing Rick Rude vs Jungle Jim Steele, inside a rotating ring and a tourist crowd.
ReplyDeleteI still don't understand why TNA hasn't picked up the rotating ring down at Universal.
ReplyDeleteProbably can't afford it...
*lightbulb*... Rotating 6 sided ring!! AND WE HAVE AN OFFICIAL THREAT TO WWE!!!
ReplyDeleteI don't dislike Subway, there are just so many better sandwich options imo
ReplyDeleteOne of the few Raw matches I can actually remember from that time period...that match was fantastic.
ReplyDeleteI recently watched that Miz/Cena I Quit match, and it was better than I thought it would be. Some people claimed it was "Torture porn", but I did like the story of Cena simply not giving up, no matter how bleak it was, sometimes almost at the point of crying, but he simply wasn't gonna quit. Then his comeback was logical as Miz/Riley played a recording of Cena saying I quit... And in the confusion, and the arguing with the Refs, Cena got a full 3-4 minutes to rest and recover, and therefore his superman comeback made sense. NEVER GIVE UP, OVERCOME THE ODDS, BABY!!! [/mark]
ReplyDeleteThere are some awesome Tito/Valentine house show wars out there. There was in MSG in 84 and a throwback in 1988 in LA. Both fantastic.
ReplyDeleteThe only thing I remember about that was the incredibly awkward moment in the Raw leading up to it where some kid in the front row completely no-sold Miz's taunts after a beat down of Cena.
ReplyDeleteThe answer doesn't show up in the results in the form of "X has the longest current Wrestlemania winning streak"
ReplyDeleteI guess it's the kind of match that you have to be in a certain mood to enjoy. I also liked Miz's mic work during the match, constantly throwing logic at Cena, trying to make him understand that he simply had no chance. Not just "QUIT YOU BASTARD!", but more of a calm and calculated tone.
ReplyDeleteSeriously, Miz was kind of awesome back then, what the hell happened?
Rvd?
ReplyDeleteComparing Chavo to Owen Hart? Really?
ReplyDeleteso that was you behind me!
ReplyDeleteI was almost about to agree, and then I thought about how talented Chavo actually is and how many chances he did not receive. Chavo didn't get to wrestle Bret Hart two times in one year on PPV, nor did he ever go against Steve Austin. He was also treated like a cruiserweight for his entire career, meaning that he was never to be taken seriously.
ReplyDeleteOwen was great and all, but he wasn't definitively better than Chavo. Chavo was like, one notch below Eddie, and didn't have the charisma. Owen's like that compared to Bret.
Look guys, pick any match from the ShowGunns era, and you have your best Billy Gunn match right there, gua-ran-teed.
ReplyDeleteRaw rating drops back to normal. 2.97 rating with 4.1 million viewers. They did a huge # post mania and have lost huge #'s each week since.
ReplyDeleteLike every year.
ReplyDeleteWait, wasn't everything Tito did from around 84-86 awesome? Honestly, his Valentine matches were good, I saw him do a draw with Orndorff that was good, his house show matches with Savage had great heat. What's not to like about Tito during that era?
ReplyDeleteI think the guys below covered it pretty well - once he got to the top and then lost the title to Cena, he became completely unmotivated.
ReplyDelete"When he and Truth were punished for Survivor Series not drawing." They got hosed on that, I'm sure Miz is thrilled that the Shield and Wyatts got such protected pushes and Awesome Truth was treated as an afterthought. I'm sure Sandow and Rhodes feel the same way.
ReplyDeleteIndeed, charisma is the key. Owen was always entertaining, even on his own. Other than the short lived Kerwin White character, Chavo has just been bland and boring his entire career.
ReplyDeleteI posted similar before I saw this comment. Tito was money.
ReplyDeleteExactly. So enough with everyone jizzing on themselves over that one big rating. It had nothing to do with anything.
ReplyDeleteWell, he did name his toy horse after Mongo's dog, so there is that.
ReplyDeleteI grew up onTito/Valentine. They carried that Saturday/Sunday morning shows.
ReplyDeleteSince their is not a daily thread up I thought I'd mention there are the first 4 Raws of 94 up now.
ReplyDeleteThe Superman comeback always works well with Cena because he's a legit 6-foot-7, 275-pound guy.
ReplyDeleteTheir run together was really short, though.
ReplyDeleteDouglas - Tully. Douglas had to be the pro wrestler in a promotion that worked around extremely limited performers.
ReplyDeleteWow, still got sour grapes because I put you down a few weeks ago? Get over it man... lol
ReplyDeleteYeah, they were good, but I don't get how they became so legendary. They were a good heel team that had a nice run for about 6 months. Nothing more, nothing less.
ReplyDeleteDuring the actual match there was a kid that Miz was taunting, and when he ask the kid, "Do you want Cena to quit?", another one sitting next to him yelled, "You quit first!" and Riley shot him a look as if he wasn't part of the segment.
ReplyDeleteAwesome Truth was one of his last great moments.
ReplyDeleteI don't really remember any good matches the NAO had as a team. The dumpster match was like ***, but nothing great as a match.
ReplyDeleteHere's the Tito/Flair match Scott is talking about: http://www.dailymotion.com/playlist/xv78w_godzillaperez_battle-at-royal-albert-hall-october/1#video=x24uni
ReplyDeleteHe also had a match vs. Greg Valentine in 1988 that aired on 24/7 (LA Sports Arena show) that was insane and Scott gave ****, which was apparently the only **** match in the WWF that year: http://skeith4plusratings.blogspot.com/p/wwfwwe.html
Such an odd list of wrestlers.
ReplyDeleteYeah, so sour.
ReplyDeleteKind of annoying they were nothing but fodder for Rock & Cena
ReplyDeleteI think that's the first time I've ever heard someone say that they hate the taste of water. I can understand it not doing anything for someone, but "hate" the taste? Bizarre.
ReplyDelete