Hey Scott,
Brian Piccolo/foeaminute here - I have done the Legend's House recaps (all two of them). A good friend and fellow stand up comic passed away this morning after battling cancer. 35 years old. Anyway, I've put together a campaign where you can buy a shirt or just donate a couple dollars to his wife and kids to help with his medical bills that he unfortunately leaves behind. If this isn't appropriate to share here, it's completely fine, but I'm just trying to figure out what I can do to help.
https://www.booster.com/seanwebb?share=8221398616650628
I find the mid 90's hold up really well thanks to Shawn and the hart family
ReplyDeleteWCW was dead and buried Scott. They shouldn't even have bothered, just pick the best talent to keep on pony up for Goldgerg.
ReplyDeleteVengeance 2005 is my pick for the best non mania ppv of that era. Angle and hbk hitting five stars, hhh/Batista in a good hell in a cell, Edge/Hardy, I forget what else but I remember really loving that show. Other picks for me would be Backlash 04 & Vengeance 03.
ReplyDeleteWas watching old shows from the 90s and man was WCW loaded with talent.
ReplyDeleteI know he wasn't on the list, in (2), but Lesnar falls in the same "bust" category by the definition applied to Lashley: crushed the 1A star of the Attitude Era to become the youngest champion ever but less than two years later was all “derp derp derp, maybe I’ll try out for the NFL instead and suck at that.”
ReplyDeleteI think the best non-WM PPVs that era are Vengeance 2005, No Mercy 2008, Backlash 2007, and SummerSlam 2002
ReplyDeleteApples and oranges. Brock wasn't a bust. He was over and headlined a WM. He would have been "the guy" if he wanted to stick around. Lashley jist never got over. Huge difference.
ReplyDeleteOnce they pushed Owen to a main eventer, things got a lot more interesting. Owen-Bret is my favorite feud of all time. Granted I was 8 during it, but I feel that alone makes it more memorable than anything from the 2005-2009 era.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad I got "derp derp" over
ReplyDeleteEarly to mid 2000 covers what? 2000-2005? 2000 was amazing, 2001 was amazing for half the year, 2002 had a great run on Smackdown, 2003 was pretty unredeeming, 2004 was a pretty good year for Raw, 2005 was pretty good for Raw as well.
ReplyDeleteEarly-to-mid-90's can't compare.
Second your Vengeance and Summerslam choices. Grade A shows there. I'll add One Night Stand 2005, Royal Rumble 2002, & WrestleManias 19,21 22 & 24.
ReplyDeleteUmm okay we will go with that
ReplyDeleteI feel the ppv the next July AFTER Rock-Taker-Angle, Vengeance 2003, is easily the best pay per view of this era, and one of the best ever.
ReplyDeleteI LOVE WM 19 but it's always gets lost in these types of discussions. It was odd in that it kinda started a new phase for wwe and doesn't have much historical impact but it's a great show. Probably my 2nd or 3rd favorite mania
ReplyDeleteI disagree. WCW as a company was dead, but I think everyone who was ever a wrestling fan was super excited to see WWF vs. WCW dream matches. Matches that no one ever thought would happen. There was a legit buzz surrounding the purchase because we'd finally get to see Austin vs. Goldberg, Undertaker vs. Sting, Rock vs. Flair, DX vs. nWo, etc... of course, we got none of that.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I do think WCW was dead in terms of the WWF trying to keep WCW a separate "brand" with its own house shows, pay-per-views and the like. The only money was in WWF vs. WCW matches.
No way is the GAB 2004 with Taker the worst PPV of that era. It's bad but far from the worst, I'm sure 2008-2011 had worse, I mean at least GAB 2004 was memorable with the start of JBL's title reign which shocked the hell out of everyone, in a really good match with Eddie.
ReplyDeleteOutside of the 3 way main event, Scott's highest rating at Vengeance 2002 was **1/2
ReplyDeleteNot sure I'd be calling that the best PPV of anything
Glad we are in agreement
ReplyDeleteYeah that's what I meant, keeping it as a separate brand.
ReplyDeleteBacklash 2004. Top to bottom maybe not the strongest but two ****1/2+ matches that take up over an hour combined and a decent Jericho/Christian &Evil Trish match,
ReplyDeletePlus I was there.
ReplyDeleteAnd you met Shane the next night.
ReplyDeleteBash 2004 had three or four negative star matches and PAUL BEARER GETTING MURDERED BY CEMENT MIXER. Plus JBL getting the World title because Vince wanted to rub it in the face of people who wanted him fired. I'd have to try really hard to find something worse outside of that ECW thing.
ReplyDeleteThe first two Great American Bash PPVs were pretty awful. GAB '05 had the end of the Muhammad Hassan nonsense and a bunch of other crap. The only good thing to come of that show was Scott's headline for his review: "I'm gonna Great American Bash the hell out of this show."
ReplyDeleteSomeday I might tell that story.
ReplyDeleteThe Paul Bearer segment was what made my 12-year-old self stop denying that wrestling was fake.
ReplyDeleteThat ladder match from NM08.
ReplyDeleteI think the time period it took place in kinda hurt it. Raw total crap and SmackDown, while still decent, was starting to get overwhelmed by all of the nonstop McMahons. And plus, Brock's botched SSP kinda hung a black cloud over everything.
ReplyDelete"Plus JBL getting the World title because Vince wanted to rub it in the face of people who wanted him fired."
ReplyDeleteI don't remember this at all, probably because I didn't watch much during 05-06. Can someone elaborate on this please?
Wasn't really watching at the time but was there any reason to believe Lashley was ever going to be "the guy" in the company? I've seen the Mania match with Umaga, which was lousy and rather heatless until the after-match stuff with Trump. Just read up on him and found he feuded with the McMahons/Umaga for a couple more months, then jobbed to Cena in his title match, got injured and then that was basically it. Was he in line for a major push upon returning from injury?
ReplyDeleteHe was big and muscular. That's all I got
ReplyDeleteYou know something? It's nice to live in a world where there's not a well-known promotion that is so heinous, so awful, that wishing pain upon the rectum and anus through the application of superheated metal poles with a point on the end is necessary to adequately voice said displeasure with the company, or it's owners/backers.
ReplyDeleteI still remember the SmackDown in 2005 when he debuted. I thought he was awesome at that point, but the second he talked that was pretty much it four me. Plus, I was still in my mark/smark purgatory phase at that point, and by tine time I got to late '06 I was sick of him.
ReplyDeleteI'm spitballing, but I'd guess that JBL, World Champ came not too long after JBL, Goosesteppin' In Germany Goof.
ReplyDeleteAny other instances of guys getting straight up murdered on a wrestling show? Bossman is the only other one I've got. Giant at Halloween Havoc was more vehicular manslaughter.
ReplyDeleteThe Bossman hanging was a microcosm of Crash TV. "Hey a guy just got hanged in the middle of the ring live on Pay-Per-View! Now, let's check out this video package of last night's WrestleMania concert!"
ReplyDeleteWas WCW ever not in the 90s? Lack of talent certainly wasn't their downfall.
ReplyDeleteI mark for Bossman's hanging just for the way they completely no-sold it the next night. I'm pretty sure he just showed up on Raw and was fine.
ReplyDeleteHaving been a kid during this era and not really remembering much, I'm loving them on the Network. Excited for 94, though I'd assume it won't be that great.
ReplyDeleteHe also had such a baby face to him.
ReplyDeleteThat ppv turned me off to Smackdown forever. Ugh to 2004.
ReplyDeleteYep! Great show.
ReplyDeleteThis is very informative as I stopped watching from 2003-2012 save for 5 minute peaks at Raw every several months. At least I know what to avoid on the Network & what might be worth a watch (or FFwding through until a good match).
ReplyDeleteAbdullah in the electric chair in the Chamber of Horrors?
ReplyDeleteWasn't his head/body ratio pretty bad... like even without Photoshop his head was too small?
ReplyDeleteThat was the one that had the really good Cena/Undertaker match, too.
ReplyDeleteHopefully someday soon
ReplyDeleteI absolutely love the Benoit/Eddie and WGTT/Filthy Animals matches. Throw in the Cena match you mention, a **** main event, and a *** bar room brawl, and the show brings the goods.
ReplyDeleteI loved 2004 Raw, but 2004 Smackdown was ROUGH. JBL Honky-Tonking it as champ. The Cabinet as the top heel stable. Yeah, they had rising star Cena but they also had rising stars Kenzo Suzuki, Rene Dupree, Luther Reigns, Orlando Jordan, Mark Jindrak, etc.
ReplyDeleteAny time Lashley gets mentioned all I can remember is that hilariously stupid promo he cut on Fit Finlay where he says 'You say your name is Finlay and you love to fight... I say your name is Finlay and you're a bathturd!'
ReplyDeleteHoly crap, just Googled it, I can't believe that happened in 2004. I thought it came much later.
ReplyDeleteHow did the Undertaker not get treated as a heel after killing his own manager?
ReplyDelete'04 was when Cena's babyface schtick started to falter. I was a kid back then so I still ate it up but in hindsight he'd gotten really annoying at that point, even if the rapping kept him unique and "cool." They stopped letting him write his raps during that time so they got pretty repetitive and predictable and he did a 5-minute pandering routine before every match.
ReplyDeleteBut still, when you look at the talent they had during that period...it's hard to believe it was a nationally televised wrestling promotion. They had Cena feuding with Renee Dupree for Christ's sake.
Seriously, it had to have been a running gag that they kept giving him so much mic time during the McMahon feud.
ReplyDeleteBecause it turned out to be only attempted murder, which is thus acceptable for kids.
ReplyDeleteLashley would've been a good Paul Heyman guy, as he had the highest voice this side of Michael Jackson. Good look, pretty good in the ring, but couldn't cut a promo to save his life.
ReplyDeleteIt was presented as a Mercy Killing. Only they never explained WHY Undertaker felt the need to "sacrifice" him.
ReplyDeleteIt was a week later just about.
ReplyDeleteI actually really liked heel Booger Red Undertaker. He was probably the best "badass heel" they've had in the last decade, other than maybe Brock.
ReplyDeleteI know it's a source of debate online, but which show ended up with a better buyrate, 28 or 23? Some sources online indicate that the last revised figures gave 28 a slight edge as the top buyrate.
2006 was a pretty crappy year for Smackdown, as we finally got rid of Muhammad Hassan the year before...and then Great Khali debuts, FML.
ReplyDeleteThat's probably the one I was thinking of. They all kind of run together for me after a while, but I was definitely thinking of the one with the Filthy Animals match on it.
ReplyDeleteYeah. Unlike Brock, the roid use was INCREDIBLY obvious due to the disproportionate nature of his body. Like, he literally looked photoshopped.
ReplyDeleteThey pushed him relentlessly. Other than Cena, nobody was protected more than him.
ReplyDeleteHe turned into a halfway decent wrestler (he's been pretty good on Impact), but he is a charisma vacuum. Zero personality, zero presence, zero mic skills.
I liked that version of the Undertaker as well. I always enjoyed more reality based stuff and you could tell that version of Taker was the true man with the volume turned way up. The classic Undertaker had to come back at some point but it was fun while it lasted. Not sure why he gets so much hate for that time period.
ReplyDeleteWeird thing about Paul Bearer being murdered that wasn't the only time they insinuated that he had been killed off as didn't they have at least a couple of segments years later where Kane basically causes some sort of harm to him?
ReplyDeleteEveryone seems to talk about the stinkers he had during that run -- vs. HHH and Austin -- but he also had some really good matches against Hardy, RVD, Angle, Rock and Flair.
ReplyDeleteThere have been at least a dozen non Mania PPV's better than Vengeance 2002.
ReplyDeleteYeah. Pretty much the only redeeming things about Smackdown were King Booker and the Benoit-Finlay matches.
ReplyDeleteEdge tried to kill him in 2010 as well.
ReplyDeleteKane mentioned in his HOF speech that every time Paul came back they'd "kill" his character in increasingly bizarre ways.
ReplyDeleteThe Triple H match at Mania 17 was also really enjoyable.
ReplyDelete