Sunday, August 31, 2014

Test the 2ndary Title to Make Reigns


Hey Scott,

I was flipping through the 1st Warrior DVD and I had an idea: Is there anything completely stupid about just giving Reigns either the US or IC belt and having him run with the thing, beating people left and right until WM, THEN having him straight up challenge Lesnar and having them do a Title vs. Title Match?

​Yeah, because the US title is considered such a midcard geek title now that it would actually bring him down several notches to even want it.  If they start him down that road, there's no point in even putting him in the main event.  Those titles destroy everything they touch.  ​

137 comments:

  1. I still maintain that the U.S. Title should be the "Money in the Bank" title, where the champion can challenge for the World title at any time, but be has to give up the U.S. Title to get the shot.

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  2. Its sad that the last meaningful secondary title run was Cena's Us title reign 10 years ago. So that means those titles have been shit for 10 years smh. I remember in WCW I was more interested in the US title chase than the heavyweight. Same with WWF with the IC.

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  3. It sucks cause he won't have much to do until the Rumble. Is HHH hurt or something? They seemed to just drop that whole ordeal.

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  4. That's essentially exactly what TNA did, isn't it?

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  5. I don't think Scott is wrong here, but I also think doing this could theoretically bring the title back up to being worthwhile. The US title fits better right now (since Sheamus VS Reigns would still be a big match, and Sheamus isn't so over as a face that anyone would cheer him over Reigns, whereas Ziggler might pull more of a split), but the best way to do it is to lead up to the match with a ton of clips showing the history of the title, which ties into the IC title better. Although they could tie the US title into WCW's history.


    They'd definitely have to work at actually building it up though, and dropping the whole "champ loses non title match" bullshit they are absolutely obsessed with right now.

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  6. It seems like they really mistimed this whole thing. They keep pushing off the HHH match because if it happens too soon, how do you retain his momentum off that? If it happens too late, how do you retain his momentum until that?

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  7. Just because they don't mention something for a few weeks doesn't mean they "dropped" it. If say they're saving it for Survivor Series, they can't just talk about it twice a week for 3 months straight, we'll get sick of it before it even happens.

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  8. I'm not saying they have to meet but they don't even mention it. The Shawn-Bret stuff comes to mind. They only had one match in 97 but periodically they would remind everyone they hate each other.

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  9. Mister_E_BarrettsLastPrivateerAugust 31, 2014 at 9:41 AM

    As a kid I was always more interested in the IC title.

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  10. If you asked me before I read these comments, I wouldn't have been able to tell you who the IC and US title holders were.


    Hell, you can probably ask again in five minutes and I won't be able to tell you.

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  11. I don't understand why the US/IC titles are so hard to book.
    Have the IC title for guys just below the main event, like Sheamus or Miz or guys nearly on that level like Cesaro, Rollins.
    US title a step below that for guys like Swagger, Rusev, Ziggler.
    Have wrestlers talk about wanting to win the title, have actual feuds for the titles and have them not only defended regularly but treat the title matches as a big deal.
    Once you get the fans to care about the titles then you have two more selling points to the PPVs

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  12. How about having good genuine feuds over it? We can easily name 5 great feuds over the IC title off the top of our heads (HTM/Savage, Savage/Steamboat, Razor/HBK, Rock/Austin, Rock/HHH) but in the last 10 years, I can barely think of one memorable feud over the IC belt (Rhodes/Show).

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  13. with Sheamus holding the US it feels like the #2 title, at least to me.

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  14. One thing I would is to convert one of the titles into one with meaning. What's the difference between US and IC? Nothing. We can't even tell which one is higher up on the pecking order.
    Make one of them into like an internet or TV title. Imagine if Miz had a title where champ must lose within 10 minutes like the old TV title. He could always just run the clock out and we would hate him for it. That would also fit his character.

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  15. Rusev needs to take the US Title, rename it the Russian Title, and dominate the midcard until either Cena or a returning Angle takes it from him.

    Use the IC title for a Reigns buildup, which I think Barrett could actually have done, if not for injury.

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  16. I really disagree with Scott's thinking here. Here's 2 examples, Russo killed the IC title dead in the late 90's, despite that Randy Orton sure as hell made that belt feel important again in 2004. He had a lengthy reign and scored numerous clean wins. He even had that epic battle with Cactus Jack for the IC title. The belt could have meant something again but they got the belt off of him and went back to the same old lazy booking. Another example is Ziggler's US title reign. Ziggler had a lengthy reign with the belt culminating in a fantastic match dropping the belt to Zack Ryder. Ziggler was ready for the next level and Ryder was poised to become a very popular superstar with the US title but we all know what happened.


    Those belts are just 1 good title reign away from being important again. Imagine what a lengthy strong reign with one of those belts would've done for guys like Alberto Del Rio, Jack Swagger, Ryback, and yes Roman Reigns. Ultimate Warrior's last speech the day before he died had him wearing a trench coat with an airbrush of himself wearing the IC title. Those belts were damn important and can be again. I disagree strongly with Mr.Keith.

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  17. Has he even defended the damn thing or made any mention of it being an important thing to him?

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  18. I would allow myself to be water-boarded in Ned Beatty's sweat, 15 minutes after he's placed 2nd in a corn dog eating contest, if it would put a halt to the Roman Reigns push.

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  19. If you put Sheamus and Ziggler against each other in a unification match, you'd instantly have a credible title coming out the other end. Yes, they'd probably screw it up afterwards, but there are simple ways that they can make the title(s) valuable again.

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  20. If something on TV would bother me THAT much, I just wouldn't watch, instead of voluntarily torturing myself.

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  21. Both titles are dead. I'm sorry, but you need to DEAL WITH IT.

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  22. You ask in' to be my peanut butter?

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  23. davidbonzaisaldanamontgomeryAugust 31, 2014 at 10:14 AM

    Watching RAW the other day, totally had no clue that sheamus a title

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  24. Haha...man, I can't wait for your reaction when Roman wins the world title.

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  25. And I would (and do) devise painful and humiliating feats of devotion to my cause, hoping word of my proposal will reach a producer of the program and they will take up my challenge, giving me the opportunity to positively impact the direction of the television show I otherwise would enjoy viewing. I guess one of us just happens to care a little bit more than the other.

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  26. I would lick Mike Tyson's facial tattoo to prevent that from happening.

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  27. It's going to happen...and it may close Wrestlemania!!!

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  28. DEAL WITH IT.



    (yes, i used that twice within 3 minutes, but it worked both times)

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  29. I'm excited for it...I like Roman Reigns!

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  30. I'm now thinking of the South Park episode where people catapulted themselves into a building and killed themselves.

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  31. If that happens, I shall refer to the event as Wrestle-mundane-ia, because that's exactly what it will be. Mundane.

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  32. And I'm thinking of a Family Ties episode where Steven Keaton produced a telethon.

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  33. At least you can still go on the Network (for $9.99!) and relive the glory days of your favourite wrestler, the charismatic and unimpeachable Hillbilly Jim!

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  34. A swervy heel turn right now would do wonders for him.

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  35. And I'm thinking of that Cosby Show episode where all the men got pregnant.

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  36. The titles suck because of their shit booking for the last 10 years or so. It's going to take much more than a lengthy Roman Reigns to repair them.

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  37. Little Rudy turned out to be one of the most incredible babes of all time. It's a crime she's not on TV anymore.

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  38. Yes, at least there's that, but the cruelest trick ever played upon mortal

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  39. What really killed those belts (and the tag belts) are those damn non title matches. I don't know who thought having champions lose constantly (or ever) was a good idea but it is killing the championships dead. I remember in 2001 they had RVD beat Kurt Angle (current champ) in a non title match. The entire Alliance came out to celebrate it was such a big deal that the champion got pinned. Building any of the titles up would have to involve eliminating non title matches.

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  40. I agree with the first part, but I think each title is one good reign away from being important again.

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  41. Well in WWE's defense, the Tag Titles are a bit more prestigious now, as the Usos have had a very solid reign. Lots of people are upset the Wyatts didn't beat them, but I'm glad they didn't. Every team getting a short title reign just devalues the whole thing.

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  42. Virgil's Gimmick TableAugust 31, 2014 at 10:46 AM

    Sadly, we're just gonna have to get used to the idea of Diesel 2k15 as champion.

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  43. Sorry, that would make far too much sense

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  44. Any title can be rehabilitated. WWE doesn't want to with their current style of occasionally giving someone a rocket push to the main event, while the rest are in 50/50 limbo.

    Sure, they could give Reigns a Randy Orton-like title run which would rehab the title after a few months or so. But, that would likely be pointless because after that long, it's time to move on with Reigns and they'll need another guy to push down our throats. Which they'll be hesitant to do.

    I like the Rusev idea of him renaming it the Russian title. If you're not willing to book a secondary champ as a legit main eventer soon, at least add in a story that makes the champ care about the title. Like Angle in 2000, D'Lo in 99, even Chyna I guess.

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  45. Just remember when Ryder won the belt, Dolph was good champion before Zack won, that made the his victory much bigger. His IC title run was great in 2010/11.

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  46. But IMO the WWE title had a higher valued when it switched between Mankind and Rock or Rock and Triple H than when others had it for a year or so. For me it's more about how often the title is defended OR if it is in a story and not about how long has someone it. Dean Ambrose was US champion forever and it meant nothing, because there were zero feuds about it. And I don't know if Randy Ortons IC title reign was so good, because the match with Foley was not about the IC title, but it would have been great as well if they just had that match without the title.

    I think a feud with a champion has to be about the title. Everything else devaluates the championship.

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  47. One good Reigns?

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  48. Idea: let Russev win the title and then continue against Jack Swagger and when finally Swagger gets the russian title back to USA in a ladder match, he will be the next top star. ;)

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  49. Oh yeah, the Ambrose thing was absurd. But the Usos do seem to have pride in defending the titles, and they make it feel like it's a huge deal. So steps in the right direction I guess.

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  50. Really, it'd be perfect if the titles were switched. Rusev could beat Ziggler for the US title, and Reigns could beat Sheamus for the IC.

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  51. MikeyMike, WitnessAugust 31, 2014 at 11:03 AM

    Does this stem for Triple H love of JCP and everything Flair? He has done a good job with the tag ranks. Remember how awful it was in 2010-2011? The Hart a Dynasty, Air boom, epico and primo. All trash losers.

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  52. Agreed. I wouldn't mind seeing Reigns build up the title the way the original e-mail suggested, and after have a big tournament for the belt (have him be forced to forfeit it), with the top two having a genuine feud over it after. That at least would start the build, with them having to maintain it. There's not really a compelling reason for them not to build up at least one of the titles. There's no point to having two jerkoff belts they do nothing with. Make one of them mean something, a belt that anyone not immediately going for the World title wants, or given to guys they think can eventually be main eventers, and the second one can be the midcard jerkoff belt (if they're insistent on having one).

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  53. And strangely enough, the Usos were still there back then. They were just basically non-existant for a few years, then it's a near miracle that they got rebuilt so well.

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  54. I really believe if they let HHH in charge the product will be better, NXT has it's flaws but it works with NWA booking.

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  55. MikeyMike, WitnessAugust 31, 2014 at 11:05 AM

    Reigns winning the belt at Levi Stadium next year is going to be the exact opposite of the awesomeness of Austin at 14 or Bryan at 30.

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  56. I agree completely. I hate the "champions lose a non title match" bullshit. It's fine once in a great while...they do it every single fucking feud now. It's ridiculous.


    I'd only have non title matches when the champs are essentially facing jobbers, a "warm up" match. Otherwise they can do things like Ziggler being in a tag match, as opposed to "non title match #75 which he will lose".

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  57. There's still a lot of time, if we riot like this year's rumble, no way there gonna let him ME Mania.

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  58. MikeyMike, WitnessAugust 31, 2014 at 11:07 AM

    They're good. A nice thing about them is they're always going to get a decent match on raw.

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  59. Foley/Orton is probably the last IC title big feud.

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  60. MikeyMike, WitnessAugust 31, 2014 at 11:09 AM

    I was there for the Rumble. It was awesome. Randy Ortons low point IMO.

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  61. Is there a subliminal message there? YOU want to main event Wrestlemania?

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  62. MikeyMike, WitnessAugust 31, 2014 at 11:10 AM

    He claims to look like Eddie Edwards so he's nothing more than a spot rest midcarder.

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  63. I'm looking more now like Chuck Taylor since my hair has grown a again.

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  64. MikeyMike, WitnessAugust 31, 2014 at 11:17 AM

    Another spot wrestler.

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  65. I had a tought if a guy winning all the singles belts to run up to Lesnar. It was with Cesaro though. Send him to NXT to win that belt, then have him with the US belt at night of champions, then the IC belt at hell in the cell, and now here's a guy who is on a "streak" of winning belts and you know how much Brock likes to end streaks.

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  66. MikeyMike, WitnessAugust 31, 2014 at 11:20 AM

    The US title needs to go. That belt hasn't meant jack shit in the WWE.

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  67. They need to stop booking Reigns like he's a monster. He's no bigger than Randy Orton. Like, I believe Daniel Bryan can out wrestle Brock, and I can believe that Ambrose can out crazy Brock, but I don't believe Roman can overpower Brock. Am I the only one with this issue?

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  68. probably on the D shows. I honestly don't remember him being on Raw in a while.

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  69. You might have broken the record for saying the word "Belt" most times in a post. I know it's the "rebel" word to use, since Vince insists on "champtionship", but really, it's ok to use another word SOMETIMES.

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  70. Chuck is a charismatic comedy guy.

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  71. So they should treat him like "Just another guy" then? Isn't that the main complaint around here, that nobody is booked to stand out?

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  72. And even then, it was an afterthought. I was thinking "Does Foley really even care about it? Will he forfeit it if he wins, as all he really wants is to hurt Orton?"



    Had the exact same feeling about the Flair/HHH "IC Title" Cage match actually. It was on the line, right?

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  73. MikeyMike, WitnessAugust 31, 2014 at 11:25 AM

    He's like my size. Not good enough to be in the WWE

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  74. MikeyMike, WitnessAugust 31, 2014 at 11:26 AM

    Random, but is there anyone worse in wrestling than Colt Cabana?

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  75. I love smarks. They hate the writing but their only suggestion is vomiting up the same 5 angles over and over again.

    What worked for one guy doesn't mean it will work for the next. Warrior and Reigns couldn't be more different.

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  76. MikeyMike, WitnessAugust 31, 2014 at 11:29 AM

    I'm fine with how he's pushed. He just doesmt entertain me as much as Ambrose.

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  77. My favorite might be saying a heel should destroy a top face, then the face eventually figures things out and manages to finally beat the heel.



    But every time that does happen, they complain that it's predictable, or that the heel will get buried by 50/50 booking.

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  78. MikeyMike, WitnessAugust 31, 2014 at 11:31 AM

    TBF to super smarks, 50-50 booking has made the product boring.

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  79. And if someone has a losing record, he's getting buried, and if someone not named Punk or Bryan has a winning streak, he's "shoved down our throats"


    WWE: We can't win!

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  80. Says the worst fantasy booker on the entire blog.

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  81. MikeyMike, WitnessAugust 31, 2014 at 11:32 AM

    It's because from 1998-2002 the guys we wanted to win won.

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  82. I do believe there might be a 20 to 30% chance that Ambrose does take the WM 31 spot. It's happened a few times before. So keep BO-LIEVING I guess.

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  83. Eva Marie, Khali, Mr.Anderson, Samuel Shaw, Gunner.

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  84. Just wait til the Philly crowd boos him out of the building at the Rumble.

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  85. The Wyatt's have beat them multiple times in non title matches.

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  86. Yep, it's really not "50/50 booking", it's "I want the guy I like to win, and nobody else". Well said.

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  87. I feel like the Reigns backlash has been building since day one. When they debuted, everyone shit on him because he wasn't an indie darling like the other two. Then when Reigns was obviously the best thing about the group over the next couple of years, people begrudgingly accept him.

    People have been waiting for the first time they could go "See! See! I told you he sucked!" Just because his solo run hasn't been that great so far. And while it may not be great, it has been far from botched.

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  88. The push is fine. But, it's hard to push somebody to stand out when they don't in any way. Can't wrestle, can't talk, doesn't look that strong or menacing. Just fairly handsome.

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  89. IWC fans are like reverse Vince McMahons. They have a "Small man fetish", and anyone over 6'2 and 250 lbs automatically sucks.

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  90. MikeyMike, WitnessAugust 31, 2014 at 11:37 AM

    I think Cabana is worse than all of them.

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  91. Kennedy and Alberto Del Rio. Cabana could have been brought in for a cup of coffee with CM Punk. Bring him in as his friend, turn him heel on Punk, blow it off at a PPV.

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  92. Shouldn't you be on the network watching all those post 2000 five star Ric Flair matches that allegedly exist?

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  93. MikeyMike, WitnessAugust 31, 2014 at 11:39 AM

    So is it safe to say Ambrose has been anointed The Guy of the IWC?

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  94. Smarks like guys that are great wrestlers, size has nothing to do with it. It's just that most great workers are smaller guys.

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  95. There are a bunch of 4 star ones, yes. Most of those Raws haven't been posted yet. The closest to 5 was the ladder match with Edge, you're not a wrestling fan if you don't like that match.

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  96. He's has some good moves but still doesn't know how to build a match, sure putting against a guy like Orton that works better with guy that wrestle faster than him of was issue.


    Second problem about Roman, Personality. Dean is 1/3 Piper, 1/3 Pillman and something extremely fresh. Seth is cold, SOB that in the held the Shield. Roman's character is the silent badass, but he can't connect to crowd like Goldberg, Diesel(when he still was a bad ass) did in example.

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  97. I will also point out: SHIELD LEADER JOHN CENA

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  98. Temporarily, when Bryan comes back he'll take the Throne of the IWC.

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  99. MikeyMike, WitnessAugust 31, 2014 at 11:42 AM

    I hope they save him and don't randomly bring him to tv every month or so. That pop will be...well it will be like all the Daniel Bryan pops.

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  100. MikeyMike, WitnessAugust 31, 2014 at 11:44 AM

    I just saw Kennedy he's worse. He was always smoke break fodder for me in the WWE. It's stayed the same for tna

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  101. At least in my case, not true at all. I was excited about a new guy that finally seemed to get pushed the right way. I had my doubts after Rumble, but I was still on board. It's just obvious now they chose poorly, or at least jumped the gun way too early.

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  102. You just read my brain. People have been WAITING for a chance to shit on the odd man out in the Shield. Hearing a smattering of boos at Summerslam was probably like 8 simultaneous nerdgasms for them.

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  103. I don't mind Reigns but I feel like people would be a lot more stoked right now if Cesaro were getting this monster push instead of Reigns.

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  104. They should just change the name of the US title to the UN title, because they both have pretty much the same value these days. Am I right?

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  105. Who says Roman has to overpower Brock to beat him?

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  106. I will shed more bittersweet tears than that time I tried watching Wall-E and Up back to back.

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  107. If patterns play out, at least that means Bryan will eventually be the one to take the title off him. Then we get the "No More Corporate Roman Reigns" run before he heads off to TNA and changes the business.

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  108. Colt Cabana main eventing a PPV vs Punk makes David Arquette winning the WCW title seem like a great idea in comparison....

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  109. He had zero 4 star matches when he returned to WWE.

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  110. Why would you have doubts after the Rumble? He looked awesome and was actually getting some cheers after the fans started shitting on everyone.

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  111. Reigns was booked as a silent ass kicking bad ass in The Shield. I really think everything went down hill with the coffee skit, he morphed into Sheamus right then and there.

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  112. I was very critical of CM Punk being lazy and not bulking up for his big World title run and I got a ton of heat for it.

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  113. The coffee skit was terrible but I've seen nothing like that since.

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  114. There are numerous Evolution tag matches that are 4 or better. He had singles match with Edge, Angle, Austin, plus the cage matches with Orton and Triple H that were all 4 stars or damn near close to it. He was a ring general in those Evolution tag matches.

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  115. I never said main event.

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  116. Brock was an NCAA wrestling champion and UFC Champion how is Daniel Bryan going to out wrestle him?

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  117. Or even Ambrose.

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  118. Well now he has the stupid catchphrase.
    "Believe that!"

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  119. The moment Reigns turned his back to the camera, I thought,"Oh great.........."

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  120. That was the one with the kid laughing like a maniac? I have that on DVD.

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  121. He doesn't, Brock wipes the floor with him.

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  122. I feel like a lot of the hardcore smarks would. I think the live audiences wouldn't take as warmly to Cesaro as they did/do Reigns.

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  123. You believe Ambrose can "out crazy" Brock? In practical terms, what the hell does that even mean?

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  124. Yeah, it's been a big deal on Main Event.

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  125. Virgil's Gimmick TableAugust 31, 2014 at 1:02 PM

    And then we get Bryan vs Dean Ambrose for the title at 32. I'm okay with that.

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  126. Feuding with Randy "Heatkiller" Orton hasn't helped him. If Triple H really wants Reigns to get over, he'll book a feud between the two of them and have Reigns squash his ass to mirror the dominance of Brock over Cena.

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  127. Speaking only for myself, while i was already a fan of the other two, i was glad to see Reigns step it up. I only say they should be careful on how they push him because he doesn't need to be Swaggered.

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  128. It means that Ambrose still try to take a few crazy swings at the start of the match, right before Brock no sells and locks him in a submission.

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  129. I think the window for Cesaro was right after Mania and they treaded water with him. Cesaro slamming Big Show over the ropes at Mania was as much of a natural star making moment as I could think of.

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  130. They had awful matches at house shows and yet they still decide to continue with the feud. I don't get it.

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  131. He's over with everyone.

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  132. There's lots of people worse. Colt is at least a capable wrestler he just chooses to weld goofy comedy stuff to dry, dull British chain wrestling. I love Colt's. personality but he isn't my favorite guy to watch in the ring. ill still take him over some clueless slouch.

    Also any conversations about worst wrestler in wrestling are irrelevant in a day and age where Former World Champion The Great Khali is still active.

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  133. While I 1,000% agree that they should unify the US and Intercontinental titles (they haven't successfully and consistently pushed either of those in years), I disagree with this notion that the secondary titles are damaged goods. Your average fan doesn't think that way. They STILL get excited about title changes. They still get invested when a guy they like wins the title, and they get pissed when I guy they hate nabs it. The damage, obviously, comes with the follow up. Axel and Big E immediately come to mind here. They won the IC title, and it was supposed to be the beginning of their big push. Then WWE lost interest in them and they did nothing until they lost the title, and then seemingly they dropped down to a point that left them lower than they were before they won the titles.

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  134. Wrestlings not real sweetie.

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