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Best Matches

Hey Scott,
 
Lightning round
 
What are the best Singles' matches you can think of for the following guys, some of the best B+ players of the 80s and 90s? (Let's limit it to North America)
 
Tito Santana
Rick Martel
Dynamite Kid
Greg Valentine
Big Bossman
Ted Dibiase (Sr.)
Dustin Rhodes
Shane Douglas
Paul Orndorff
Jeff Jarrett
 
Thanks

Tito:  IC title match against Hennig on SNME.
Martel:  AWA World title match against Stan Hansen, maybe?
Kid:  The match with Tiger Mask, duh.
Valentine:  I know he's had some really good ones with Flair, but for ones I've seen the cage match with Tito.
Bossman:  The cage match with Hogan.
Dibiase:  Probably the famous one against Dr. Death from Mid South.
Dustin:  That match he had with Vader on the Clash?
Douglas:  His stirring victory over Shawn Michaels at IYH3.
Orndorff:  He had some really good ones with Steamboat near the end, I'll go with one of them.
Jarrett:  The Shawn match at IYH2 where he dropped the IC title.

Comments

  1. Bossman v Barbarian would be my pick as opposed to the Hogan match.

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  2. That Shane Douglas victory was a **** 3/4 affair if there ever was one.

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  3. Gunther the Nasty LoserSeptember 22, 2014 at 1:38 PM

    One of Martel's matches with Booker T in '98 over the WCW TV belt?

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  4. Even Shawn Michaels couldn't help but have a tear in his eye when he got to work with greatness himself.

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  5. He also had a great match with Tito too on SNME I think. Martel's a weird case because he was a good worker, but I don't think he ever had that MOTYC match.

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  6. It would have been ***** if weren't for Dick Flair.

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  7. Seriously, Douglas could have been a huge star in the WWE. Triple H was brought in around the same time wearing a fucking jockey uniform. Gimmicks can evolve.

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  8. Big difference was that HHH had a long time to evolve and his body held up whereas Douglas' body fell apart soon after.

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  9. I'd say Dibiase was an A-, and that Douglas, Dustin and Jarrett were B's without plusses. (Although I am a huge fan of post-2000 Goldust.)

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  10. CruelConnectionNumber2September 22, 2014 at 1:59 PM

    Douglas/Shawn forfeit was IYH 4.

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  11. Personally thought the Flair / Tito Raw match was just a punch better than Tito's match with Perfect.

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  12. Steamboat/Douglas vs The Blondes

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  13. Martel was in that Bobby Eaton mold; he always brought it but wasn't the guy to pull off that memorable classic.

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  14. Martel always struck me as VERY lazy during his WWF run. He was just a generic smirking/grimacing heel, didn't bring it out despite his natural talent, and just kind of rested on his laurels. He never felt like even an IC-level contender because of that. In WCW, it was like someone lit a fire under his ass.

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  15. I felt he purposely grounded his offense so he wouldn't get cheered. I remember a heel vs heel match with him and Bastion Booger of all people, and Martel made a comeback with a few aerial moves like dropkicks, and he suddenly got a few cheers... then he immediately went for a choke hold. Like he panicked the moment a few people cheered for him.

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  16. Tito vs. Flair is a bit of a lost gem. Sitting here thinking about it seems pretty obvious those two would go well together.

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  17. That match is just SO mind-blowing. Neither guy had much of a rep for producing classics (Boss Man is good for a big guy, but Barbarian was notoriously-awful in the WWF), so nobody figured that match would be any good. Suddenly they just start pulling out ALL the stops and having wicked chemistry with each other.

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  18. Tito and Martel had a good on SNME too, and his Savage stuff is great

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  19. I saw a broken down Shane Douglas wrestle on an indy card a few years ago in New York. He used a chain during the match and the ref caught him red-handed. He claimed one of the fans gave it to him, and being the smart-ass that I am, I raised my hand and said it was me. He pointed at me and was like "See ref? I told you!" That was five stars in my book!

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  20. I guess I missed the boat on Valentine, as I started watching in 1988 (after his IC and Tag title reigns). I seriously can't remember one Valentine match that was exciting. MAYBE the Garvin submission match at the 1989 Rumble.

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  21. That's a great point. To be a heel and generate heel heat you have to wrestle like one. Bret Hart made a great point about that comparing Owen's heel antics and Wrestlemania 10 getting the heel heat and and Shawn's over the top high flying, fast paced spectacular assault stealing the show from Diesel at Wrestlemania 11.

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  22. I remember WWE's own book on ECW didn't hold back calling it a flop and more on creative than Douglas himself.

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  23. I"ll say Douglas and Taz had some good ECW battles.

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  24. Indy shows can be fun when it comes to fan interaction.



    Just last month, I was in the front row and talking with the girl next to me, we pretty much only see each other at the shows, so we were catching up... Then I notice people talking around me... and trying to get our attention...


    turns out that the heel had been on the apron yelling at us for the past 30 seconds to pay attention to the match!! his opponent totally pulled his hair!!! Was embarrassing and hilarious at the same time.

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  25. Yes. The Savage matches are great as are the Valentine matches. Tito always had some fire and I thought his comebacks were great!

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  26. And go figure, Shawn turned face the very next night.

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  27. Was that Hansen match the one where he did the "I've got a big fat wife and 9 kids" promo? That was awesome - one of the best ever. Told the reason as to why he wants to win (more money) and why he needs that money. And it was funny as hell.

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  28. Virgil's Gimmick TableSeptember 22, 2014 at 2:34 PM

    You should seek out some of his Mid Atlantic stuff from the early 80's. He was awesome.

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  29. Virgil's Gimmick TableSeptember 22, 2014 at 2:37 PM

    He had a pretty good match with Jannetty in ECW if I recall correctly.

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  30. I saw that chain match for the first time a few months ago, it was indeed pretty good.

    And I liked the pin attempts, as it just kept reminding us what a unique and rare match this was at the time.

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  31. Good lord yes, those constant pin attempts in the submission match just kill the flow dead.

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  32. Wouldn't Martel's best match likely be one of the title unification draws with Flair?

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  33. Shane Douglas v Justin Credible from Cyberslam 99 had no right being as good as it was...

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  34. Not necessarily his best singles match, but I've always had a soft spot for Titos WM 8 opener against Shawn.

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  35. There are some Tito matches floating around the Network and the YouTubes. They're really solid fights.

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  36. The more time passes the more I like that match. Seeing young Shawn always brings a smile to his face considering his many trials and tribulations and just how far he came.


    Who would have ever thought we were seeing the true beginnings of perhaps the greatest career of all time that night?

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  37. Fights is a great way to describe them.

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  38. Tito was very motivated, as his sister Arriba Macintyre was nearby.

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  39. What's funny/sad is that this partially explains why promoters are a bit justified in pushing down a Cruiserweight division, at least one with all the amazing high-flying. It made WCW look ridiculous when the Main Eventers were plodding powerhouses and there were guys curtain-jerking who could do 450s and amazing high-spots.

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  40. That's what's missing from WWE - crowd work. I was amazed rewatching the old Doom - Steiners matches how guys, Butch Reed especially, worked the audience.

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  41. Shane Douglas is on the Mr Kennedy list of wrestlers I just absolutely never enjoyed.

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  42. WILL YOU BE SERIOUS???

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  43. You know, a lot of things make a person feel old.

    This list, and having seen very little of the people on it, makes me feel young.

    To forever 21!

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  44. Whoa whoa, sorry for the TJ, BUT, I'm only seeing last night's main event now, and, they have actually started doing what I have wanted them to do for ages--treat it like a sport. That stats breakdown of the Cena / Lesnar match was awesome, and Booker and Show breaking down how Cena stayed closer to Brock in their brawl on Raw was great.

    So, they have listened to me as a fan, and I have no right to complain.

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  45. Nothing there will look good on you.

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  46. Boss Man -- You know, the cage match with Hogan is basically the superplex. I'd go with Boss Man v. Barbarian from the Royal Rumble 91, or the Boss Man v. Duggan from Royal Rumble 90, or the Boss Man/Henning match from WrestleMania VII.


    Actually, fuck all those choices, what about Boss Man/Vader from Spring Stampede 94?

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  47. Shane Douglas was fucking terrible. He had no good singles matches, period.

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  48. Valentline/Garvin from the 1990 Royal Rumble is a very underrated match. They just go out there and stiff each other for like 15 minutes.


    Really good.

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  49. He's even more broken down now, I saw him wrestling in Lancaster, PA, a few months ago. He's apparently dropped the belt to Rhyno since I last saw him, but I think is still part of the show.


    I saw him in a tag match with three other indy nobodies, and he did the least work.

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  50. Probably the Douglas/2 Cold Scorpio match for the NWA title was probably his best single match as the "Franchise."

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  51. I thought Douglas v. Credible was damn good too.....Dibiase's is tough, but I am trying to remember a match between Ted Dibiase and Dr. Death in Mid-South......because that would have been awesome. (Did Scott really mean Duggan I wonder?)

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  52. Anyone else think Jake/DiBiase from WrestleMania VI is ****?

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  53. Dean Douglas, the smarmy know-it-all teacher is money.


    Whatever the fuck Dean Douglas ended up being was death.

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  54. I remember an "Event Center" promo from Douglas right after he lost the IC title to Razor, he started with "The Dean is not one to cry over spilled milk". This was in 1995, but the real life guy has been crying about it for the past 2 decades!

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  55. In what universe did Shawn Michaels job to Shane Douglas at In Your House 3. Maybe he got to beat Scott "Razor Ramon" Hall that night, but it wasn't HBK. Was Scott doing his random sarcasm thing there, or did he really goof up?

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  56. yeah I think the Vader match (one of them at least) is probably his best straight up match, but his best sports entertainment segment including match is against the Mountie at SS91. But the real height of his career is his feud with the Big Show over his dead dadday.

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  57. That's what I was wondering, though I could totally see there being a great DiBiase vs Williams match in there somewhere as well.

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  58. And the thing is, he lost even though he had his shoulder up (or was it foot on the rope), so he had a claim to a rematch that he apparently never got.

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  59. I think "stirring victory" should have been a dead giveaway.

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  60. Yeah, everyone knew he was going to be a star, even in early '92.

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  61. Are you guys talking about the dog collar match? If so, while I like it and all, I never thought it was quite as good as everyone makes it out to be.

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  62. OK, maybe do the pin attempt thing once or twice in the first few minutes for the benefit of the denser marks in the audience. But constantly throughout the whole freaking match? It just didn't work.

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  63. Batista was always great at that.


    "I hate you too!" is a classic moment.

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  64. Tito: There was a No-DQ match with Savage from Boston or Toronto that I liked even more than the Hennig match.

    Martel: vs. Bockwinkel in late '82 was great stuff. Shocked it wasn't on the AWA DVD

    Valentine: The Piper dog collar match will always be a personal favorite.

    Bossman: In 1991-92 he had a nice run of matches. I think I remember a match with the Barbarian being way way way better than expected.

    DiBiase: vs. Savage at MSG, not the cage match but the one he broke his nose in. It was on the Macho Madness Coliseum tape. Best match of their program.

    Dustin: he had a match with Austin from a Power Hour that was a TV classic for both of them.

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  65. I do, but only because Jake's promo adds a star. Wallowing in the muck of avarice.

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  66. That was a great opener. And a nice pairing as Shawn was bumping like a madman and Tito was really good stringing together offense. He was one of the few babyfaces that could work a great match without needing a long heat segment.

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  67. "I'm from Winnipeg you idiot!"

    Jericho was no slouch either.

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  68. Isn't there a pretty good Goldy/Shawn ladder match from some random Raw during Shawn's first reign? Or did I dream that?

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  69. He's possibly the second most powerful guy in the industry. He could get himself a 'Mania match with Zack Ryder if he wanted to.

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  70. Goldust and Shawn wrestled on "Raw Championship Friday" but I don't think it was a ladder match.


    They did do a ladder match at a stadium show in Toronto, but I don't think that ever made it to TV or video.

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  71. They also wrestled in the dark match of In Your House Buried Alive -- wikipedia says that wasn't a ladder match either, but i thought it was? Maybe that made it onto videotape.

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  72. I thought he got his rematch on Raw, either after the ppv or after Survivor Series?


    Maybe someday they'll update the Raw archives on the Network for us to answer that question!?

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  73. Love that match, but what a lousy finish the belly to belly was. Totally out of place in ECW. Didn't he use the Fisherman's in WWF?

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  74. Douglas had a ton of potential as a plucky baby face. He was very good in WCW around the time he was teaming with Steamboat. After he left though, he switched to a style that didn't suit him as well and put bulk on his frame that didn't belong there. In an alternate timeline Douglas might have been a great worker. As it was, he did do well for himself in ECW, but the act didn't translate to larger stages, and his heart wasn't into the Dean gimmick.

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  75. I don't mind Brock kicking out of all these moves because he's been so established as this "Final Boss" type guy that exists outside of the confines of WWE Universe.

    But I too am a little tired of all the kickouts. They can work but it's gotten to the point where a finisher doesn't work as a false finish anymore because I don't buy it. I expect the guy to kick out.

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  76. Shawn stealing a fan's camera to take a picture of how badly he was kicking the crap out of Edge in a RAW streetfight is probably the GOAT for fan interaction moments during a match.

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  77. I think at that point it still made at least kind of sense: if the main events guys are a hundred pounds (often even more) heavier than the cruiserweights it makes sense that they can't pull off a 450° splash (from a kayfabe perspective).

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  78. "Sandow goes after the band and gets beat up, which is the stupidest thing of the show so far"


    Since when does 2 people shoving ONE person back = getting beat up?

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  79. Didn't you read Scott's rant?

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  80. I chose the football game over this but fell asleep after the 1st quarter.
    After reading this I have no idea what these people are trying to accomplish

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  81. And allegedly, according to Shawn's book, both Diesel and Shawn told Vince that would happen but Vince insisted on it.

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  82. It takes valentine 20 minutes to get going but when he does boy howdy

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  83. A shame we never got RKO vs DDP.

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  84. Hardison dies in plan M.

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  85. I feel you missed much of martels time in the wwf

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  86. I saw years of it. The entire time, he was never more than slightly above average. In his dramatic heel turn, all he did was repeatedly turn around and make the same derogatory waving motion at Tito. He just didn't have it.

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  87. Not using any of Scott's:


    Tito: vs. Flair (Royal Albert Hall - I'm cheating a bit but its a WWF Match)
    Martel: vs. HBK (Summerslam 92)
    Kid: vs Hart (pick em 85/86)
    Valentine: Dog Collar Match vs Piper
    Bossman: vs Perfect (WM 7)
    Dibiase: vs. Flair (Mid South TV)
    Dustin: vs. Austin (pick em from 91/92)
    Douglas: vs. Scorpio (NWA Title Tournament)
    Orndorff: vs. Hogan (Big Event)
    Jarrett: vs. Angle ( the first one)

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  88. None of the women have learned to shut the hell up in ring, unfortunately.

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  89. Rollins issued an open challenge, Ambrose answered it, we were led to believe this was a match, and we didn't get it. It's a PPV, if you don't want to deliver a match, don't tease it.

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  90. Yeah, it's because Cena sucks and Bryan doesn't. It's not a contradiction.

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  91. Am I the only one who thinks Sting/Cena is the match they should do if Sting is doing one more match at Mania?

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  92. He's a guy who keeps scores in golf. I can dig it.

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  93. So you'd rather they do this match WITHOUT proper advertisement/buildup?

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  94. Plus that will actually be some continuity from when Heyman hired the Shield from their beginning.

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  95. They've been building it up for fucking 4 months.

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  96. Ambrose isn't getting pops anywhere near Bryan level yet.

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  97. 3 months. Ambrose was out of action for the previous 5 weeks.

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  98. This is one of those shows that sounds like the matches should be really good, at least on-paper.

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