Why would you turn Orton back face? He's better as a douchebag heel since it's how he comes across in real life.
And if he turns babyface, presumably he'd be against the Authority so why would they put him in a title match? Also Orton has lost at every PPV starting with Mania.
I could see Orton demanding his title shot and the Authority saying all right fine, you can try to kill Brock. I think that would be an interesting dynamic rather than another Orton turn
Yeah, the only difference is the cheering. But still, he has a better comeback move set. That sequence with Reigns at Summer Slam wasn't a hell comeback, those were full of face moves.
If wwe was smart (ha ha), they would have done a nice winning streak for cesaro the last 4 months with heyman. Have cesaro demand a title shot against Lesnar because he beat everybody and he is sick of heyman talking about Lesnar. Heyman says no so cesaro attacks Lesnar and pummels him. Bam! Instant top face
And Steamboat just had to be with his talentless wife when he came back as she played a fifth rate Ms Elizabeth, effectively killing his coolness aura and sabotaging his title run.
There is nothing to suggest that Big Show is the next challenger other than a random rumour on one of the online "news" sites, which has been repeated everywhere. Big Show is in a storyline with Mark henry at the moment and is nowhere near the title, Considering what is actually shown on TV, the next challenger looks more likely to be Orton, Jericho or Reigns
According to Steamboat, he decided it was time to leave when Strongbow told him he was going to lose to Valentine in the first round as the original plan was for him to win and face Savage in the second round. After that, his wife went to the concession stands and told him that they were not selling any Steamboat merchandise at all and felt that Vince was making an example out of him so he decided to leave
Am I the only one who agrees with Vince post WM 3?
"Here were gonna make you the most sympathetic baby face in the company. Give you the IC belt in front of the largest audience in wrestling history and you are gonna have an epic run, maybe even be world champ some day."
"I want to take a vacation"
"Excuse Me?"
"Look I know you put all this work into getting me over and I appreciate it and I know you were counting on me selling house shows and all but I'm having a kid and I need to be home"
It's funny just how big Vince always was on the Road Warriors compared to all of the other Jim Crockett and WCW guys that have come through his promotion. They are the only ones who really survived being booked terribly at times and who have a place in history over the WWE version of those guys (in Demotion, Powers of Pain).
Personally I think Vince (among other wresting promoters) just didn't like guys who didn't need him. Steamboat had the same kind of dealings with Jim Herd as well -- I think Steamboat is just the type of dude that feels he's a valuable piece to a company and if you aren't respecting that, he'll go do something else.
Y'all know that Big Show has to get his annual "aww fuck, THIS again?!?" main event push. It's like WWE decides not to make money for a couple of months every year.
If I'm not mistaken, it was during Batista's first title reign when he was dealing with injuries.
This was also during the time where Batista had sex with Melina and she accused him of rape (storyline wise). Supposedly, the story was going to lead to a reveal that Melina was actually a trannie (no lie, I read this on the dirt sheets).
If they kept the strap on Lesnar long enough, they could potentially turn the whole roster semi-face, even the Authority in order to bring the title back to the WWE. All Brock would have to do would be for him and Heyman to cut a series of promos stating how Brock is above the WWE, how he is unstoppable, how the entire company should kneel at his feet and grovel, even Vince, Hunter, and Stephanie. Then the Authority throws everything they have at Lesnar until Wrestlemania except Reigns, because Triple H hates Reigns and wants to hold him down. By Wrestlemania, Reigns would be the only guy left that hasn't faced Brock, and he will be the one last chance to bring the title home to the WWE. Reigns wins and brings the title back to the WWE. Then the Authority can go back to being heels again, or just go away in general since all is right in the world.
TJ: This CM Punk documentary is really something else. Also, someone needs to tell Michael Hayes that his hair needs to be cut off. Seriously, in a corporate setting, how is a man walking around with hair like Hayes okay?
It helped that he owned a gym in Charlotte that did fairly well back then, and I believe he had been good at saving his money over the years. So financially, he could resist the pressure to sign whatever they put in front of him, such as the lowball contract he got after the '89 Bash.
I think a tag team of Ryback and R-Truth called The Legion of Demolition and Pain would get over. Animal can be their manager and his son can be in their corner when they are in St Louis, (why not...they tried it with Michael Sam?)
Even with Sheamus not getting much of a push lately I don't know why the next challenger shouldn't be him. It's not that Sheamus is losing matches, he just isn't on TV and featured all that much. He rarely, if ever, is made to look weak on TV.
He'd be a somewhat credible character and the matches will definitely be good and they don't really lose anything by having Brock murder him since the office has been trying to alter his character and turn him heel for months.
I get why they wouldn't want to do Steamboat vs. Savage as they were making Savage look like a sympathetic babyface. Shame we never did get the rematch though.
I'd be ok with dragging in one of the old stars for a run with Brock. Foley, Flair, it doesn't matter. As long as it isn't someone from the active roster. Can Steamboat work a match?
You should know well enough by now that not everything WWE does makes sense. And normally when rumors circulate about another Big Show push, they normally come true.
I hate to agree and side with an Orton tweener turn, but a feud with Brock could really work. I can buy him as the cunning snake with a mean streak against the monster.
As for Big Slow, I'm more worried about him eventually feuding with Cena... I can smell the horrible story already. Cena overcomes Brock, now he has to defeat the odds against 500 POUNDS!
That's a big part of the booking with WWE. They think they can "cool off" guys and just elevate them when needed. Most of the times these guys have lost all of their heat by then. Wrestling was always about striking when the iron is hot.
-Brock said in his book he liked working witb Show and bumping around for him
-Brock is strong enough to throw show around, so they could do a big clash of the titans monster movie type match
-Show is a good worker whose matches only lose out in recent years because his opponents lack the ability to pull their moves out to use on him. Brock is strong enough to do his regular moveset on Show so they shouldnt have problems. See Shows matches with Sheamus for reference.
-Brock can use sone of his quasi-MMA style and Show can use some of his boxing and they can have a big potato fest.
-They have history to refer to and Show can hold up his end on the mic against Heyman.
-It builds intrigue to imagine a match where Brock won't automatically be able to squash his opponent.
-Show isn't high up enough thst a loss to Brock hurts him but it helps Brock to have a successful defense against someone on the roster in a regular match.
-It makes Brock look good to neat a giant.
-Giant F5! Do the ring collapse again? Maybe not, its been done a lot, but still. Big chance for something epic.
Altogether, given timme and effort, we could see Show's first 5 star singles match.
Orton hasn't lost any popularity and contrary to what most of the iwc believes he's still one of the top guys in the company. His first loss to Brock could turn him face and have him tossed out of the Authority.
The Rocky Johnson/Teddy Atlas win is much more significant than a bunch of those on the list, especially fucking Rock and Sock. Of course a meaningless D-X title win is included as well/
With a chair, because Show was injured, and they had to improvise. Now Show can say "I dare you to do it without a weapon", and they can have the originally planned match.
Perhaps a quick test run for Reigns. It's easy enough to explain away his loss as a guy who had the stones to make the challenge but didn't quite have it against a freak like Brock. If he gets over awesome, if not back to the drawing board.
So the bitching was all about how Cena was allegedly gonna win the title back, and it would ruin everything... Now the bitching is one of Brock's opponents during his 8 month long title reign going into Wrestlemania.
Flair would die in the ring against Brock. I don't think he could take 16 German suplexes at this point. He could still survive a bump or two, but not to the degree that Brock would give him at this point.
"Orton is a legit main event guy who they could get three PPVs out of but still beat in the end with no problem."
They should not waste Brock's limited dates on a 3-match series with anyone. That extended series with Triple H killed him and it took wins over Punk and Undertaker to make him interesting again.
Yeah but Savage/Valentine was a pretty great match in its own right, arguably better than Savage/Steamer at WM 3. Hi, my name's Beard Money, and I say things that are incorrect.
Kinda bad long-term planning from Vince. He had nine months of advance warning that a Steamboat baby was coming, yet he still launched that big IC title angle and put the belt on the guy who wanted out? That is, unless Steamboat's demand really did come as a surprise.
Yeah, especially in the wake of Guardians' success, suddenly a returning face Batista would be over like crazy for a Survivor Series match against Lesnar.
I think WWE could still pull it off, but based on his recent Jericho podcast interview I don't think he seems keen on returning (plus he probably still has to do Guardians promotion in Japan and China since it hasn't been released there yet)
If Steamboat never takes that vacation post WMIII… what happens? He holds the IC title until when? We never get the Honky reign, which means no Ultimate Warrior MSG moment, which means no title VS title at WMVI… a great what if.
I think I'm with Vince on this one. He gave Steamboat a great angle that allowed him to win the IC title in a show-stealing match and he wanted to take time off immediately afterwards. I get that his wife was pregnant, but he's a wrestler, that's part of the job. And I don't see how it's such a great insult that he lost in the 1st round at WM4 instead of facing Savage. Savage has been a heel and now they want to push him as a face - why put him up against another face, let alone one who once had his throat crushed by Savage?
Given how competitive and cut-throat it was back then I can't see how Steamboat wanting time off immediately after getting a good spot would have went over well.
My only theory on why they just didn't want to pull the trigger on a face Cesaro run was that they felt he couldn't cut the promos and/or relate to the audience as a face. That's all I got.
9 times out of 10 I'm totally with you, but if a Brock-Show feud means Cena isn't winning at NOC and Brock's Reign of Break Your Pitiful Asses in Half is continuing, I can take it.
Comically bad list. Like 20 of the 10 things on this list are forgettable Attitude era hotshot title changes. (Strike Force beating the Harts, I remember, as a cool and surprising moment by the way.)
"Personally I would have presumed that they'd turn Orton babyface again and have him be the next victim, because that's not only a great match but a FRESH one."
It also has the added entertainment value of VIKING SPACE LORD Brock Lesnar destroying the EVER LOVING FUCK out of Randy Orton.
You thought him kicking Miz's ass was great use of his salary. just wait til Brock skins the viper and uses his skin for a necklace!
Big Show is the perfect opponent for Lesnar on a show you know no one is buying anyways. Lesnar should be just destroying guys til they decide who he's facing at WrestleMania. Seeing him toss around Big Show with F-5's and German suplexes should be a great visual.
now this makes me certain i will not watch raw or the network for the next several months. thanks wwe for letting me watch monday night football without missing anything.
Does Savage still turn without honky? He holds the IC title till after Mania 4. Dropping it to some heel, maybe Savage. Then he goes after Debiase, after he win the title at Mania. Then leaves for Turner after Hulk returns.
Big Show vs. Lesnar has been done SO MANY TIMES. Why don't they try something fresh, like have Big Show turn heel by costing Cena his title match, leading to a series of PPV bouts between Cena and Show. Imagine the pop when Cena lifts up the Big Show for an AA! "What a HOSS!" they'll all say!
Eh, considering WWF was always a face on top territory, the IC champ was usually a strong midcard heel. Faces had a cup of coffee with the IC title, but usually it was Hogan on top and a heel on top if mid card. Best case scenario: Steamboat holds the title till fall, loses it to a strong midcard heel, Butch Reed from all rumors back and then drops it to Warrior, song remains the same.
Truly interesting booking would be if WWF did a total 180 degrees in their booking, and kept Heel Savage on top, and Steamboat on top of midcard. It's hard to imagine, and doesn't make much sense with how hot Hogan still was but, fun to think about.
Flair's plane crashed literally a year before I was born. JBL is always good for the 40 year old references but can't bring up something that happened a few months ago to help the storyline.
The argument I heard is that there "weren't any top spots available" and they were "saving him." If that's true, they deserve to be hemorrhaging money with that logic. You can never have enough main eventers in case of stuff like Punk leaving, Bryan getting injured, Ambrose off making a movie, etc.
I think it comes down to who Lesnar feels most comfortable with. He has a certain level of creative control and I seriously doubt he cares about the ratings and the subscription numbers. He's just looking to make his money the easiest way he can. The down side of Lesnar as champion is dealing with him facing the fucking Big Show.
Now I agree with Scott. If they could run Lesnar-Orton Survivor Series and TLC that would be kind of interesting because Orton showed against Mark Henry he can work that underdog type of match. And then running Lesnar-Batista at Royal Rumble might be a workrate disaster but it would definitely have the feel of a "Clash of Titans".
Yeah, if they bring him back in a city with a mark crowd (or maybe a hometown crowd) he could easily be a great Rumble opponent for Brock (or, as you pointed out, Mania if they sour on Reigns and Bryan isn't ready to go). Hell, they could basically reboot Batista by having him be a surprise entrant in the Rumble and win again... But it's in smarky Philly so that's probably a bad idea.
I'd like to think you mean Yuji Hino since he's friggin' top of the line.. but I assume you mean Hama.. Not a fan, but huzzah for plus size acceptance..
Alright, pal, we're going to make you IC champ, and you'll hold the belt for right, nine months! "I'd rather spend time with my family, Vince." (Vince stares at Chief Strongbow) "Go get Wayne. Don't tell Randy."
Don't get me wrong, the fire-breather was my introduction to him at Summerslam 91, and I loved it when I was 6, so I definitely get that. I just don't see how it would necessarily contribute to a big push, and am genuinely curious as to what the gameplan was supposed to be.
I was convinced Batista would pop up at SummerSlam -- it was in L.A., I figured he was done promoting the movie since it'd just come out, and there were at least two storylines he could've been interjected into. If they wanted Batista to be a heel, he runs in during the Orton-Reigns match and costs Reigns the win to get back in Evolution's good graces and get back at the last guy who beat him. Or if they wanted Babyface Batista, he runs in during Steph-Brie and teases/threatens to powerbomb Steph.
I think WWE thinks Big Show vs. Brock Lesnar shows continuity because it would start with Show and Henry as a team confronting Brock for beating them up back in January. Every time they put Show back in the main event I tell myself, "Oh, he must be retiring and this is his farewell feud. Well, he deserves it. I'm cool with it." But then he doesn't retire. So assuming Show-Lesnar won't be the farewell feud, it sounds like a bad idea. Sheamus, Jericho, Swagger, even Henry would be more interesting. If WWE knew how to build up an underdog challenger, Ziggler-Lesnar would be interesting and keep up Brock's monster persona as Ziggler could bump for him like crazy.
This is the type of thing WWE has completely forgotten, or is simply unwilling, to do. The random, unexpected run-in from someone huge. If at Summerslam Batista had jumped out of the crowd suddenly—no music cue, no "ALLOW ME TO INTRODUCE THE RETURNING BATISTA" a month beforehand—if he simply jumped out of the crowd, got in the ring and powerbombed Reigns before the crowd even knew what was happening, he would have been the biggest goddamn heel in the company.
Don't think there was one. WWF never got behind the Steamboat push in 1991. The only real "feud" thy booked him in was a half-assed one with Skinner (alligator man vs. dragon? close enough, I guess). He barely got onto the Summerslam card and that was only a 6-man curtain jerking mashup (cool match, though). And then, of course, he was going to job to Undertaker and IRS before leaving entirely. They really wasted him here as the WWF midcard wasn't overflowing with talent at the time. I'm thinking the only reason Vince wanted him was he was a former NWA World Champion who he could keep mired in the midcard. He did stuff like that back in those days.
Assuming Taker has one more match left in him (a big question mark, I know), I think the rematch would draw a decent buyrate from people wondering if Taker can avenge his WM loss. Plus he and Lesnar clearly trust each other in the ring, and I would hope they'd be motivated enough to put on a better show than they did at 'Mania.
Downside would be that Lesnar's win would be a foregone conclusion, because Taker as champ just ain't happening.
That whole year he left before coming back against Mayweather he was training in boxing. He's not "a boxer" but he uses boxing style punches in the ring.
It was done to death more than a decade ago, by Cornettes Law it could have beenn recycled almost twice already. That little teaser in January was just setting up unfinished business. As for building a new star, who exactly is helped by being fed to Lesnar? Build a star when someone beats him, but while you're still shining him up, you gotta give him an easy layup.
Whatever though, shits gonna happen, I'm just looking for the silver lining.
Orton makes perfect sense, regardless of whether he turns back to a face or stays a heel who just wants his one-on-one rematch for the title. Reigns has already beat him, so after Orton loses, Roman can make the case that he deserves a shot -- or at least in the fans' eyes, he logically should get a shot.
But then again, I just used the word "logic" when referring to WWE booking.
Brock Lesnar throws Big Show around, yawn. Been there, done that.
You could also build someone up by having them go toe to toe with Lesnar, even if it's in a losing effort. Punk came out of that Summerslam match looking great and he lost.
Dang, 6-year-old me's hopes and dreams have been dashed again. Sounded to me like Scott had some inside scoop with writing about a "big push" but re-reading it, it was more likely just sarcasm.
Yeah, he rocked it even in the bs filler they gave him, so that seems like a big waste. I guess Dragon's the only one they could really have logically put Skinner against, though, before they made him Buffalo Bill in the attitude era. /Hodgman
I didn't even know Rey and Batista were tag champs.
ReplyDeleteQuit trying to make no buys happen
ReplyDeleteWhy would you turn Orton back face? He's better as a douchebag heel since it's how he comes across in real life.
ReplyDeleteAnd if he turns babyface, presumably he'd be against the Authority so why would they put him in a title match? Also Orton has lost at every PPV starting with Mania.
I could see Orton demanding his title shot and the Authority saying all right fine, you can try to kill Brock. I think that would be an interesting dynamic rather than another Orton turn
I think Orton needs some time off. Let him take off the rest of the year and come back at the Rumble.
ReplyDeleteOr better yet, never come back at all.
I think they've clearly been wanting to turn him back for months now. I know Orton hates it but he's pretty awesome as a face.
ReplyDeleteOrton as the face with a screw loose is fun but I like him better as heel. I think his offense suits it better.
ReplyDeleteI'd actually like to see cartoony Sheamus be put in a match with the realistically gritty Brock.
ReplyDeleteIt's very obvious stuff, but Sheamus just has to go back to what freshened him up in the first place, "I'll fight him".
ReplyDeleteYeah, take away the smiley crap and he's a legit threat.
ReplyDeleteWhat's the difference between face and heel Orton? Same guy to me...
ReplyDeletePlus they already had a match that was essentially a squash
ReplyDeleteYeah, the only difference is the cheering. But still, he has a better comeback move set. That sequence with Reigns at Summer Slam wasn't a hell comeback, those were full of face moves.
ReplyDeleteUnless the get creative, I'm not busting Show as a threat after RR.
ReplyDeleteIf wwe was smart (ha ha), they would have done a nice winning streak for cesaro the last 4 months with heyman. Have cesaro demand a title shot against Lesnar because he beat everybody and he is sick of heyman talking about Lesnar. Heyman says no so cesaro attacks Lesnar and pummels him. Bam! Instant top face
ReplyDeleteDemolition over Haku/Andre should be on there, one of the biggest pops for a tag team match ever.
ReplyDeleteThey might need him if Cena is actually hurting as much as the rumors have been saying.
ReplyDeleteAgreed.
ReplyDeleteThey sucked.
ReplyDeleteAnd Steamboat just had to be with his talentless wife when he came back as she played a fifth rate Ms Elizabeth, effectively killing his coolness aura and sabotaging his title run.
ReplyDeleteThere is nothing to suggest that Big Show is the next challenger other than a random rumour on one of the online "news" sites, which has been repeated everywhere.
ReplyDeleteBig Show is in a storyline with Mark henry at the moment and is nowhere near the title, Considering what is actually shown on TV, the next challenger looks more likely to be Orton, Jericho or Reigns
The entrance with the pony was lame
ReplyDeleteThey should've stayed the course on Cesaro.
ReplyDeleteAccording to Steamboat, he decided it was time to leave when Strongbow told him he was going to lose to Valentine in the first round as the original plan was for him to win and face Savage in the second round. After that, his wife went to the concession stands and told him that they were not selling any Steamboat merchandise at all and felt that Vince was making an example out of him so he decided to leave
ReplyDeleteThis was part of yesterday's Daily Update
ReplyDeleteAm I the only one who agrees with Vince post WM 3?
ReplyDelete"Here were gonna make you the most sympathetic baby face in the company. Give you the IC belt in front of the largest audience in wrestling history and you are gonna have an epic run, maybe even be world champ some day."
"I want to take a vacation"
"Excuse Me?"
"Look I know you put all this work into getting me over and I appreciate it and I know you were counting on me selling house shows and all but I'm having a kid and I need to be home"
"Ok, thank you for you time ricky"
"Send in the Elvis impersonator"
I have no idea why that one was included
ReplyDeleteIt's funny just how big Vince always was on the Road Warriors compared to all of the other Jim Crockett and WCW guys that have come through his promotion. They are the only ones who really survived being booked terribly at times and who have a place in history over the WWE version of those guys (in Demotion, Powers of Pain).
ReplyDeleteThen again, he gave them Rocco.
Personally I think Vince (among other wresting promoters) just didn't like guys who didn't need him. Steamboat had the same kind of dealings with Jim Herd as well -- I think Steamboat is just the type of dude that feels he's a valuable piece to a company and if you aren't respecting that, he'll go do something else.
ReplyDeleteY'all know that Big Show has to get his annual "aww fuck, THIS again?!?" main event push. It's like WWE decides not to make money for a couple of months every year.
ReplyDeleteShould be Brock vs Orton or Dean Ambrose
ReplyDeleteIf I'm not mistaken, it was during Batista's first title reign when he was dealing with injuries.
ReplyDeleteThis was also during the time where Batista had sex with Melina and she accused him of rape (storyline wise). Supposedly, the story was going to lead to a reveal that Melina was actually a trannie (no lie, I read this on the dirt sheets).
"And if he turns babyface, presumably he'd be against the Authority so why would they put him in a title match?"
ReplyDeleteWhy did Triple H give Daniel Bryan like 19 title shots after Summerslam?
I'm shocked at people suggesting Orton.
ReplyDeleteI think the idea of Orton getting ragdolled like Cena did at SummerSlam is so damn tempting.
ReplyDeletePlus, as Scott said, it's a different match up,
ReplyDeleteI remember marking out hard for number 8... I was such a fan of Stone Cold I genuinely worried about him dying in a freak accident for many years
ReplyDeleteAlways in the fall.
ReplyDeleteTJ: So this guy is booked for BfG
ReplyDeletehttps://youtube.com/watch?v=sNrwJS90-jY
Wonder if he'll wear the same outfit.
If they kept the strap on Lesnar long enough, they could potentially turn the whole roster semi-face, even the Authority in order to bring the title back to the WWE. All Brock would have to do would be for him and Heyman to cut a series of promos stating how Brock is above the WWE, how he is unstoppable, how the entire company should kneel at his feet and grovel, even Vince, Hunter, and Stephanie. Then the Authority throws everything they have at Lesnar until Wrestlemania except Reigns, because Triple H hates Reigns and wants to hold him down. By Wrestlemania, Reigns would be the only guy left that hasn't faced Brock, and he will be the one last chance to bring the title home to the WWE. Reigns wins and brings the title back to the WWE. Then the Authority can go back to being heels again, or just go away in general since all is right in the world.
ReplyDeleteHow about 0.
ReplyDeleteNo, WWE does want to make money, I hate it when people stupid shit like that
ReplyDeleteYes, because we're always literal when we say things like that. Jesus.
ReplyDeleteIt was just bad timing all around. I understand Steamboats and Vince's point of view.
ReplyDeleteAnd Cincinnati's five field goals are now trailing Baltimore. That end zone allergy needs to be treated ASAP.
ReplyDeleteTJ: This CM Punk documentary is really something else. Also, someone needs to tell Michael Hayes that his hair needs to be cut off. Seriously, in a corporate setting, how is a man walking around with hair like Hayes okay?
ReplyDeleteOf course, DX has to be on a list. The list is not valid without them.
ReplyDeleteSurprised that they included the Demolition title win.
It helped that he owned a gym in Charlotte that did fairly well back then, and I believe he had been good at saving his money over the years. So financially, he could resist the pressure to sign whatever they put in front of him, such as the lowball contract he got after the '89 Bash.
ReplyDelete20 years from now, when Brock gives his shoot interview, he can brag about F-5ing that 1200 pound nasty Big Show, brothers.
ReplyDeleteWait the Hart's vs the Demo's aren't on the list? To quote Scott Keith WHAT THE FUCKING FUCK?
ReplyDeleteOn a related note...I watched the Documentary. Even before he quit Punk is such a whiny douchbag, (he did marry well though)
ReplyDeleteI think a tag team of Ryback and R-Truth called The Legion of Demolition and Pain would get over. Animal can be their manager and his son can be in their corner when they are in St Louis, (why not...they tried it with Michael Sam?)
ReplyDeleteEven with Sheamus not getting much of a push lately I don't know why the next challenger shouldn't be him. It's not that Sheamus is losing matches, he just isn't on TV and featured all that much. He rarely, if ever, is made to look weak on TV.
ReplyDeleteHe'd be a somewhat credible character and the matches will definitely be good and they don't really lose anything by having Brock murder him since the office has been trying to alter his character and turn him heel for months.
It makes too much sense not to do it.
I get why they wouldn't want to do Steamboat vs. Savage as they were making Savage look like a sympathetic babyface. Shame we never did get the rematch though.
ReplyDeleteI always assumed WWE just had him on standby, ready to elevate when needed...but that time is now and he's in mid-card hell
ReplyDeleteI like how you book
ReplyDeleteand it's always at this time of year
ReplyDeleteI'd be ok with dragging in one of the old stars for a run with Brock. Foley, Flair, it doesn't matter. As long as it isn't someone from the active roster. Can Steamboat work a match?
ReplyDeleteWhy not Taker? It's not a big ppv but why wait?
ReplyDeleteI don't know, he's passionate about his craft, which is more than you can say about a lot of guys in that company.
ReplyDeleteAnd I'll never say a bad thing about him after what he did for Joey Mercury.
Demolition/Colossal Connection, Hart Foundation/Demolition, Stone Cold&HBK/Bulldog&Owen. This list is simply not complete without those three.
ReplyDelete"I don't know, he's passionate about his craft, which is more than you can say about a lot of guys in that company."
ReplyDeleteThat's a bit of a generalization don't you think?
If they want to make money, perhaps they should book PPVs where the idea that Brock COULD loose is a possibility.
ReplyDeleteAnd in the Cell it would make perfect sense.
ReplyDeleteDaniel Bryan said it best on the documentary:
ReplyDelete"A lot of guys are just in it for the money, a lot of the guys in the back just hide and pray they don't get booked in a match on Superstars."
You should know well enough by now that not everything WWE does makes sense. And normally when rumors circulate about another Big Show push, they normally come true.
ReplyDeleteI hate to agree and side with an Orton tweener turn, but a feud with Brock could really work. I can buy him as the cunning snake with a mean streak against the monster.
ReplyDeleteAs for Big Slow, I'm more worried about him eventually feuding with Cena... I can smell the horrible story already. Cena overcomes Brock, now he has to defeat the odds against 500 POUNDS!
That's a big part of the booking with WWE. They think they can "cool off" guys and just elevate them when needed. Most of the times these guys have lost all of their heat by then. Wrestling was always about striking when the iron is hot.
ReplyDeleteYep that wouldn't have been the right time. Would have loved that at say, Summerslam 88
ReplyDeleteReasons why Brock/Show would be a good match:
ReplyDelete-Brock said in his book he liked working witb Show and bumping around for him
-Brock is strong enough to throw show around, so they could do a big clash of the titans monster movie type match
-Show is a good worker whose matches only lose out in recent years because his opponents lack the ability to pull their moves out to use on him. Brock is strong enough to do his regular moveset on Show so they shouldnt have problems. See Shows matches with Sheamus for reference.
-Brock can use sone of his quasi-MMA style and Show can use some of his boxing and they can have a big potato fest.
-They have history to refer to and Show can hold up his end on the mic against Heyman.
-It builds intrigue to imagine a match where Brock won't automatically be able to squash his opponent.
-Show isn't high up enough thst a loss to Brock hurts him but it helps Brock to have a successful defense against someone on the roster in a regular match.
-It makes Brock look good to neat a giant.
-Giant F5! Do the ring collapse again? Maybe not, its been done a lot, but still. Big chance for something epic.
Altogether, given timme and effort, we could see Show's first 5 star singles match.
Orton hasn't lost any popularity and contrary to what most of the iwc believes he's still one of the top guys in the company. His first loss to Brock could turn him face and have him tossed out of the Authority.
ReplyDeleteNo way DBS was slated to jump to WCW in 1996. I don't buy it.
ReplyDeleteThe Rocky Johnson/Teddy Atlas win is much more significant than a bunch of those on the list, especially fucking Rock and Sock. Of course a meaningless D-X title win is included as well/
ReplyDelete"I don't think Cena can lift a 500 pound man, Maggle!"
ReplyDeleteBig Show getting another title shot is like Michael Scott realising Toby is back in the office again.
ReplyDelete"Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo!"
Except we saw Brock squash the hell out of Show at the Rumble.
ReplyDeleteThey could have had Savage and Steamboat shake hands afterwards which would show the fans that Savage was a face
ReplyDeleteVince's brain is melting and slowly oozing out of his ears as he sleeps at night. Near as I can figure.
ReplyDeleteNew Aged Outlaws over The LOD was a big one. Really symbolized the arrival of the attitude era and the dismissal of the old guard.
ReplyDeleteWith a chair, because Show was injured, and they had to improvise. Now Show can say "I dare you to do it without a weapon", and they can have the originally planned match.
ReplyDeletePerhaps a quick test run for Reigns. It's easy enough to explain away his loss as a guy who had the stones to make the challenge but didn't quite have it against a freak like Brock. If he gets over awesome, if not back to the drawing board.
ReplyDeleteSo the bitching was all about how Cena was allegedly gonna win the title back, and it would ruin everything... Now the bitching is one of Brock's opponents during his 8 month long title reign going into Wrestlemania.
ReplyDeleteBitchers gonna bitch!
Flair would die in the ring against Brock. I don't think he could take 16 German suplexes at this point. He could still survive a bump or two, but not to the degree that Brock would give him at this point.
ReplyDeleteFlair is good enough to make it work. At the very least he can lie on the ground and scream "oh God"
ReplyDelete"That'll put butts in seats"
ReplyDelete"Orton is a legit main event guy who they could get three PPVs out of but still beat in the end with no problem."
ReplyDeleteThey should not waste Brock's limited dates on a 3-match series with anyone. That extended series with Triple H killed him and it took wins over Punk and Undertaker to make him interesting again.
Yeah but Savage/Valentine was a pretty great match in its own right, arguably better than Savage/Steamer at WM 3. Hi, my name's Beard Money, and I say things that are incorrect.
ReplyDelete"Show can use some of his boxing"
ReplyDeleteSince when was Big Show a boxer? Doing one worked match with Floyd Mayweather doesn't make Show a boxer.
Wait a minute, Foley on a WWE list TWICE??
ReplyDeleteSomeone's getting fired.
So if he's interesting again, it certainly did not "Kill him". Unless he was just "mostly dead" and not "dead dead".
ReplyDeleteIf you check Twitter and Instagram, you begin to see how very popular Randy Orton is.
ReplyDeleteKinda bad long-term planning from Vince. He had nine months of advance warning that a Steamboat baby was coming, yet he still launched that big IC title angle and put the belt on the guy who wanted out? That is, unless Steamboat's demand really did come as a surprise.
ReplyDeleteMaggle: Hey guys, remember, Ric Flair had that airplane crash 66 years ago. Perhaps, remembering that, Brock is trying to focus on the back.
ReplyDeleteOkay, okay... "That extended series with Triple H severely hurt his heat and reduced interest in him"
ReplyDelete"You know, not long after that he died."
ReplyDeleteBitcher about bitching gonna bitch.
ReplyDeleteSeriously, STROP COMPLAINING!
...that sounds incredibly boring.
ReplyDeleteOverweight, horny female trailer court residents have government money to spend as well.
ReplyDeleteYou know, if WWE didn't mess up Batista's push earlier this year and piss him off they could've easily run Brock vs. Batista.
ReplyDeleteThey could have Big Show doing the classic "Sable was mine before she was yours" angle and a Brock/BIg Show angle would STILL be boring.
ReplyDeletePerfect QOTD:
ReplyDeleteWorst wrestling wives that shouldn't have ever appeared on television. It's a toss up between Diana Hart Smith and Brie Bella.
Won't this delay Show's long overdue heel turn?
ReplyDeleteYeah, especially in the wake of Guardians' success, suddenly a returning face Batista would be over like crazy for a Survivor Series match against Lesnar.
ReplyDeleteI think WWE could still pull it off, but based on his recent Jericho podcast interview I don't think he seems keen on returning (plus he probably still has to do Guardians promotion in Japan and China since it hasn't been released there yet)
ReplyDeleteI would just sacrifice three different schmucks to Brock to establish him as a dominant champ.
ReplyDeleteShow, Cesaro and Henry work. Sheamus can be substitted for one of those names.
Who is Teddy Atlas?
ReplyDeleteThat's from all that ICOPRO.
ReplyDeleteIf Steamboat never takes that vacation post WMIII… what happens? He holds the IC title until when? We never get the Honky reign, which means no Ultimate Warrior MSG moment, which means no title VS title at WMVI… a great what if.
ReplyDeleteIt also helped that he had options to go other places.
ReplyDelete.... Speechless...
ReplyDelete- They've done Brock v. Big Show to death and then some.
ReplyDelete- We know because as i said above, this match has been done too many times.
- Show is also a guy who the last time he was on top, bombed spectacularly.
- He could do a match like this with someone new and it'd be a fresh matchup.
- Too much history.
- Brock murdered him in January.
- No one will really be hurt by a loss v. Brock, so why not try to get someone over, rather than someone who has been in the company for 15 years.
- Brock already ended the streak and killed Cena. He's good.
- Seen it. Seen that too.
And no, this match would not rate *****.
No thanks.
ReplyDeleteI think I'm with Vince on this one. He gave Steamboat a great angle that allowed him to win the IC title in a show-stealing match and he wanted to take time off immediately afterwards. I get that his wife was pregnant, but he's a wrestler, that's part of the job. And I don't see how it's such a great insult that he lost in the 1st round at WM4 instead of facing Savage. Savage has been a heel and now they want to push him as a face - why put him up against another face, let alone one who once had his throat crushed by Savage?
ReplyDeleteGiven how competitive and cut-throat it was back then I can't see how Steamboat wanting time off immediately after getting a good spot would have went over well.
Giving Savage a chance to redeem himself from his greatest defeat would be a tremendous story.
ReplyDeleteIf it doesn't bring back memories that they guy you're supposed to like right now was a big of an asshole a year ago.
ReplyDeleteSummerslam 88 with Savage / Steamboat for the world title and Hogan / dibiase would have been a much better card.
ReplyDeleteracist
ReplyDeleteEveryone knew Savage was a big asshole. But the guy had changed. As said below, Steamboat could shake his hand.
ReplyDeleteThey had already teamed together at Survivor Series.
ReplyDeleteYou are the first person to ever say that. Even in jest.
ReplyDeleteHelen Hart.
ReplyDeleteyou got me. I typed too quick and put the boxing commentator in the team.
ReplyDeleteHe could still be brought in as a late run challenger, or even the Mania opponent, if done right (and if they indeed do sour on the Reigns idea).
ReplyDelete"You gotta WANT it!"
ReplyDeleteEither that or when he bought WCW he got a supply of those "Four Horsemen Energy Wafers" and didn't read the expiration date...
ReplyDeleteSARA UNDERTAKER. End of discussion.
ReplyDeleteMy only theory on why they just didn't want to pull the trigger on a face Cesaro run was that they felt he couldn't cut the promos and/or relate to the audience as a face. That's all I got.
ReplyDelete9 times out of 10 I'm totally with you, but if a Brock-Show feud means Cena isn't winning at NOC and Brock's Reign of Break Your Pitiful Asses in Half is continuing, I can take it.
ReplyDelete"Personally I would have presumed that they'd turn Orton babyface again and have him be the next victim"
ReplyDeleteYou're a funny guy, Scott.
They are not squashing Orton. That guy is more protected than (insert Dennis Miller comedy bit).
ReplyDeleteComically bad list. Like 20 of the 10 things on this list are forgettable Attitude era hotshot title changes. (Strike Force beating the Harts, I remember, as a cool and surprising moment by the way.)
ReplyDeletewww.youtube.com/watch?v=7Fjh3T_zpDg
ReplyDeleteIt's only my favorite F5 of all time.
Foley would be great, if his body will hold up for it.
ReplyDeleteI think they were just doing the required "cool him off" thing. Problem is most guys can't get there heat back to that level instantly.
ReplyDelete"Personally I would have presumed that they'd turn Orton babyface again and have him be the next victim, because that's not only a great match but a FRESH one."
ReplyDeleteIt also has the added entertainment value of VIKING SPACE LORD Brock Lesnar destroying the EVER LOVING FUCK out of Randy Orton.
You thought him kicking Miz's ass was great use of his salary. just wait til Brock skins the viper and uses his skin for a necklace!
Big Show is the perfect opponent for Lesnar on a show you know no one is buying anyways. Lesnar should be just destroying guys til they decide who he's facing at WrestleMania. Seeing him toss around Big Show with F-5's and German suplexes should be a great visual.
ReplyDeleteWhat's funny though is having been to a few house shows Orton has been on, he actually comes across as a really chill guy.
ReplyDeleteUnless I'm living in some alternate universe, I seem to remember him being pretty over his last face run.
ReplyDelete... add Kane & Orton. Face or heel, doesn't matter. Lesnar should just destroy the whole old generation of stars. Jericho, RVD...
ReplyDeleteMaybe that's why it works. I mean face Orton 2.0 was mega years better than face Orton 1.0
ReplyDeletenow this makes me certain i will not watch raw or the network for the next several months. thanks wwe for letting me watch monday night football without missing anything.
ReplyDeleteDoes Savage still turn without honky? He holds the IC title till after Mania 4. Dropping it to some heel, maybe Savage. Then he goes after Debiase, after he win the title at Mania. Then leaves for Turner after Hulk returns.
ReplyDeleteBig Show vs. Lesnar has been done SO MANY TIMES. Why don't they try something fresh, like have Big Show turn heel by costing Cena his title match, leading to a series of PPV bouts between Cena and Show. Imagine the pop when Cena lifts up the Big Show for an AA! "What a HOSS!" they'll all say!
ReplyDeleteEh, considering WWF was always a face on top territory, the IC champ was usually a strong midcard heel. Faces had a cup of coffee with the IC title, but usually it was Hogan on top and a heel on top if mid card. Best case scenario: Steamboat holds the title till fall, loses it to a strong midcard heel, Butch Reed from all rumors back and then drops it to Warrior, song remains the same.
ReplyDeleteTruly interesting booking would be if WWF did a total 180 degrees in their booking, and kept Heel Savage on top, and Steamboat on top of midcard. It's hard to imagine, and doesn't make much sense with how hot Hogan still was but, fun to think about.
I guess they think Lesnar over-coming Big Show's size is more impressive to add to his list of recent accomplishments than dominating Randy Orton.
ReplyDeleteIf you think the bitching has absolutely anything to do with Brock Lesnar, you're a fucking idiot.
ReplyDeleteFlair's plane crashed literally a year before I was born. JBL is always good for the 40 year old references but can't bring up something that happened a few months ago to help the storyline.
ReplyDeleteThe argument I heard is that there "weren't any top spots available" and they were "saving him." If that's true, they deserve to be hemorrhaging money with that logic. You can never have enough main eventers in case of stuff like Punk leaving, Bryan getting injured, Ambrose off making a movie, etc.
ReplyDeleteA one-man nWo. Interesting.
ReplyDeleteI think it comes down to who Lesnar feels most comfortable with. He has a certain level of creative control and I seriously doubt he cares about the ratings and the subscription numbers. He's just looking to make his money the easiest way he can. The down side of Lesnar as champion is dealing with him facing the fucking Big Show.
ReplyDeleteNow I agree with Scott. If they could run Lesnar-Orton Survivor Series and TLC that would be kind of interesting because Orton showed against Mark Henry he can work that underdog type of match. And then running Lesnar-Batista at Royal Rumble might be a workrate disaster but it would definitely have the feel of a "Clash of Titans".
But again, Brock is probably calling the shots.
Yeah, if they bring him back in a city with a mark crowd (or maybe a hometown crowd) he could easily be a great Rumble opponent for Brock (or, as you pointed out, Mania if they sour on Reigns and Bryan isn't ready to go). Hell, they could basically reboot Batista by having him be a surprise entrant in the Rumble and win again... But it's in smarky Philly so that's probably a bad idea.
ReplyDeleteIs Batista even coming back?
ReplyDeleteYou forgot lots of 'Godamnits' and 'pal'.... Vince must say one in every sentence
ReplyDeleteI'd like to think you mean Yuji Hino since he's friggin' top of the line.. but I assume you mean Hama.. Not a fan, but huzzah for plus size acceptance..
ReplyDeleteI always thought Charlie Haas should have been in Heidenreich's place. They could have been Haas & Animal.
ReplyDeleteSomething like that.
ReplyDeleteAlright, pal, we're going to make you IC champ, and you'll hold the belt for right, nine months!
ReplyDelete"I'd rather spend time with my family, Vince."
(Vince stares at Chief Strongbow)
"Go get Wayne. Don't tell Randy."
That would've been badass, actually; Andre could've still been in Dibiase's corner, to spare him from wrestling.
ReplyDeleteWait so when he dressed up as a dragon and blew fire, that was supposed to be a push? What was the supposed endgame?
ReplyDeleteBrie at least turned into a competent worker. But then if you don't improve while being trained by BRYAN DANIELSON there's no hope.
ReplyDeleteWe mock that character but Ricky kept using it after he left again.
ReplyDeleteYeah I meant Hama. He's honestly not that bad a worker for a dude his size.
ReplyDeleteBut the Rikishi outfit threw me off.
According to the possible spoilers I read Brock might be losing to Cena unless he doesn't anyway.
ReplyDeleteProbably not. I wouldn't if I were him. He's 45 and he's clearly not in favor with the current audience so why bother.
ReplyDeleteOh please, Cena can't lift Big Show! I'll believe it when I see it.
ReplyDeleteYes. He could have a different challenger up until they decide to take the belt off of him.
ReplyDeleteIt looked like they spliced the genes of Samoa Joe and Rikishi.
ReplyDeleteDon't get me wrong, the fire-breather was my introduction to him at Summerslam 91, and I loved it when I was 6, so I definitely get that. I just don't see how it would necessarily contribute to a big push, and am genuinely curious as to what the gameplan was supposed to be.
ReplyDeleteI was convinced Batista would pop up at SummerSlam -- it was in L.A., I figured he was done promoting the movie since it'd just come out, and there were at least two storylines he could've been interjected into. If they wanted Batista to be a heel, he runs in during the Orton-Reigns match and costs Reigns the win to get back in Evolution's good graces and get back at the last guy who beat him. Or if they wanted Babyface Batista, he runs in during Steph-Brie and teases/threatens to powerbomb Steph.
ReplyDeleteI think WWE thinks Big Show vs. Brock Lesnar shows continuity because it would start with Show and Henry as a team confronting Brock for beating them up back in January.
ReplyDeleteEvery time they put Show back in the main event I tell myself, "Oh, he must be retiring and this is his farewell feud. Well, he deserves it. I'm cool with it." But then he doesn't retire. So assuming Show-Lesnar won't be the farewell feud, it sounds like a bad idea.
Sheamus, Jericho, Swagger, even Henry would be more interesting. If WWE knew how to build up an underdog challenger, Ziggler-Lesnar would be interesting and keep up Brock's monster persona as Ziggler could bump for him like crazy.
Slightly unhinged psychopath face? We've already got one in Ambrose. He's much better at it.
ReplyDeleteThis is the type of thing WWE has completely forgotten, or is simply unwilling, to do. The random, unexpected run-in from someone huge. If at Summerslam Batista had jumped out of the crowd suddenly—no music cue, no "ALLOW ME TO INTRODUCE THE RETURNING BATISTA" a month beforehand—if he simply jumped out of the crowd, got in the ring and powerbombed Reigns before the crowd even knew what was happening, he would have been the biggest goddamn heel in the company.
ReplyDeleteDon't think there was one. WWF never got behind the Steamboat push in 1991. The only real "feud" thy booked him in was a half-assed one with Skinner (alligator man vs. dragon? close enough, I guess). He barely got onto the Summerslam card and that was only a 6-man curtain jerking mashup (cool match, though). And then, of course, he was going to job to Undertaker and IRS before leaving entirely. They really wasted him here as the WWF midcard wasn't overflowing with talent at the time. I'm thinking the only reason Vince wanted him was he was a former NWA World Champion who he could keep mired in the midcard. He did stuff like that back in those days.
ReplyDeleteLesnar/Undertaker II: Deadman Boogaloo
ReplyDeleteAssuming Taker has one more match left in him (a big question mark, I know), I think the rematch would draw a decent buyrate from people wondering if Taker can avenge his WM loss. Plus he and Lesnar clearly trust each other in the ring, and I would hope they'd be motivated enough to put on a better show than they did at 'Mania.
Downside would be that Lesnar's win would be a foregone conclusion, because Taker as champ just ain't happening.
That whole year he left before coming back against Mayweather he was training in boxing. He's not "a boxer" but he uses boxing style punches in the ring.
ReplyDeleteIt was done to death more than a decade ago, by Cornettes Law it could have beenn recycled almost twice already. That little teaser in January was just setting up unfinished business. As for building a new star, who exactly is helped by being fed to Lesnar? Build a star when someone beats him, but while you're still shining him up, you gotta give him an easy layup.
ReplyDeleteWhatever though, shits gonna happen, I'm just looking for the silver lining.
Orton makes perfect sense, regardless of whether he turns back to a face or stays a heel who just wants his one-on-one rematch for the title. Reigns has already beat him, so after Orton loses, Roman can make the case that he deserves a shot -- or at least in the fans' eyes, he logically should get a shot.
ReplyDeleteBut then again, I just used the word "logic" when referring to WWE booking.
The answer is and always will be Linda McMahon.
ReplyDeleteBrock Lesnar throws Big Show around, yawn. Been there, done that.
ReplyDeleteYou could also build someone up by having them go toe to toe with Lesnar, even if it's in a losing effort. Punk came out of that Summerslam match looking great and he lost.
Dang, 6-year-old me's hopes and dreams have been dashed again. Sounded to me like Scott had some inside scoop with writing about a "big push" but re-reading it, it was more likely just sarcasm.
ReplyDeleteYeah, he rocked it even in the bs filler they gave him, so that seems like a big waste. I guess Dragon's the only one they could really have logically put Skinner against, though, before they made him Buffalo Bill in the attitude era. /Hodgman
Mighty funny that during the Attitude Era, the PPVs and TV shows during that two month time period were usually quite eventful.
ReplyDeleteFar fewer headlocks as a face than as a heel.
ReplyDeleteBatista vs. Lesnar is such a bigger marquee match than Reigns I have no idea how they could compare the two and think Reigns is a good idea.
ReplyDelete