So I said the other day that this match has been shown many times. However, it's hard to deny that it's a memorable match. Foley was able to keep up with Michaels for thirty minutes. We all know the story of Vince McMahon changing the match on the fly, but it doesn't really take away form the fact that this match saved what was otherwise a forgettable show.
026. Shawn Michaels vs. Mankind (In Your House... by ccu150
026. Shawn Michaels vs. Mankind (In Your House... by ccu150
Scoop Sullivan...best of luck to you in your future endeavor.
ReplyDeleteWhy would they want to mention something they were ending? Are people going to rush out and pick up the last issue or something?
ReplyDeleteYet another rspw story that turned out to be complete bullshit.
ReplyDeleteAccording to Observers from 1995, the original main event of Starrcade '95 was going to be Hogan vs. Sting.
ReplyDeleteThat's pretty high praise that Mankind was supposed to win the title a month or so after his debut. How was everything supposed to have played out? Sid won the belt two months later at Survivor Series and lost it back to Michaels at the Rumble before the ridiculous Vacated-Bret-Sid combo happened over 4 days. Would Mankind have dropped the belt back to Michaels? Or Taker?
ReplyDeleteI just watched this for the millionth time yesterday and it's astounding how it never gets old. This and the Bret/Austin I Quit match are probably my two favorite matches ever.
ReplyDeleteVince wasn't a fan of the Mankind character in the early stages, doubt he was going to give him the belt.
ReplyDeleteRest. In. Piss.
ReplyDeletePeople still buy physical magazines?
ReplyDeleteThe rumor was that Mankind would win the title here, but it was changed on the fly, which would have led to Austin winning the title in the 1997 Final 4 PPV, had he not blown his knee, and that would have led to Luger re-signing with the WWF, and winning the title at Wrestlemania, had he not spoiled the results the night before at a truck stop. (did I get all of them?)
ReplyDelete"Print is dead" -- Egon Spengler, 30 years ago
ReplyDeleteDid they try publishing this digitally? It could've been something they packed in with the $9.99 purchase of the WWE Network. I would've been more inclined to re-up if I got dating tips from Alundra Blaze, learned about Santino's favorite meal and saw never-before-seen photos of Sable.
ReplyDeleteI somehow still have a subscription to ESPN Magazine. I'm not sure what/when from, but...yes, people still read physical newspapers/magazines. That's unlikely to go away in our lifetimes.
ReplyDeleteIf they were going to put the belt on Vader they weren't going to put it on Mankind.
ReplyDeleteI buy a Time magazine every now and then.
ReplyDeleteFoley mentions nothing of them changing the finish on the fly in his book.
ReplyDeleteSo if the ending was not changed on the fly, as it was rumored, was he just telling them to go home? There is a gap in my knowledge between 1996 and 1999, as i was off the 'net for three years, and I have never seen that rumor debunked in any formal way.
ReplyDeleteI thought he meant changing the match on the fly meaning it was intended originally to be HBK/Vader.
ReplyDeleteNope, there's been this rumor since forever that Mankind was inexplicably gonna win the world title here, and Vince changed his mind mid match. One of the most absurd "long thought of rumors".
ReplyDeleteNo way it's true. We would have heard this from Foley at some point
ReplyDeleteDid You Know - WWE Magazine stopped publishing last week?
ReplyDeleteI don't, but I still find it sad that the medium seems to be dying.
ReplyDeleteYeah I've heard rumors about it but never from Foley himself. The title situation from Fall '96-Mania 13 was such a mess
ReplyDeleteIf he wasn't changing the finish (I don't think he was), why did Vince get up after that last table spot and go over to talk to Hebner? That's quite close to breaking kayfabe. Was he pissed at a table spot that would take up more time and told them to get their asses in the ring and go home? Vader comes down almost immediately after they recover. Watching it again, it does seem like a screwy rushed finish.
ReplyDeleteI need to know who believed this rumor of a changed finish. I have just stumbled upon some superb snipe hunting weapons and lakeside property that I'd like to sell them.
ReplyDeleteMaybe they were out of time, maybe he wanted to make sure that his champion was still alive.
ReplyDeleteYeah, sounds far fetched. Mankind was just starting as a character and not seen at that level. This match kicks all kinds of ass though, still holds up today
ReplyDeleteWE'RE OUT OF TIME! TUNE IN TO NITRO TOMORROW NIGHT!
ReplyDeleteGreat choices. I still like the Bret/Austin Match from SS 96 better though. Everything about that match is awesome. Both are awesome though, I've rewatched them over the years multiple times each
ReplyDeleteMan, I remember how in the 80s and 90s the magazine would have those fun features on wrestlers hanging out in their "natural" environment related to their gimmick that sometimes actually showed their real personalities. For some reason the one that comes to mind is Elizabeth hanging out at home on a horse ranch in Kentucky and showed her riding horses and making dinner. Nothing earth-shattering, but still pretty fun. I miss all those magazines from the 80s: the one Apter mag that did the "dream match" scenario and had the back story to it (The Road Warriors are hanging out in a biker bar and run into Demolition and challenge them and somehow Vince & Turner agree to this super PPV that has some awesome Hogan match on the card...but the tag match is the main event lol). God I spent so much of my allowance on those magazines!
ReplyDeleteJesus people, it was just another 'make the smarks think they're seeing something spontaneous' moment. Just like when hbk seems to get upset during the match. It's all a work.
ReplyDeleteI just thought it was a long-standing rumor that it was changed. My smart mark skill set is admittedly on a lower level than some others, which is why the current product does not disappoint me as much as most of us.
ReplyDeleteI disagree, Foley seemed like he had been with the company for awhile by appearing every week since his debut and being involved in a main event feud with Undertaker. He was protected and he had yet to be defeated on tv and with Vader losing his main event credibility around this time, it wouldn't have been a bad idea to push Foley as the new monster heel of the promotion. Of course Foley's main event credibility would take a big hit a month later and he wouldn't regain it until he won the title.
ReplyDeleteIf you are subscribed to their Insider content on the website they will keep sending it to you, which I hate cause that mag has always been total shit.
ReplyDeleteI still buy National Geographic.
ReplyDeleteI think the rumours started because it seemed obvious WWF wanted to take the belt of Michaels as business wasn't doing too great with him on top and the only guys around that time that could have beaten Shawn for the title were Vader, Foley and Sid, so I'm sure Foley's name was mentioned at least once when they were deciding on who to give it to. WWF choosing Sid did seem like a last minute deal as I don't think they ever expected Sid to catch fire the way he did.
ReplyDeleteMy understanding is that the 'Sean throws a fit' part of this match was a work playing up on when he actually did have a fit and the finish supposedly was changed, in the previous month's Summerslam main event title match defending against Vader.
ReplyDeleteThis match is playing off that. Supposedly.
He wanted to make sure that Earl saw that WHATAMANEUVER!!
ReplyDeleteJust watched this on the Network a couple weeks ago. So friggin' good.
ReplyDeleteThe crowd reaction during Sid's win over Michaels at SS was such a great FU to Michaels.
ReplyDeleteUh oh, Dougie's getting upset.
ReplyDeleteThey haven't run that comic since 1995!
ReplyDeleteMaybe's he talking into Hebner's mic to tell Vader to come down soon.
ReplyDelete"The Charismatic Apology." This thing's hilarious and it's only two paragraphs in.
ReplyDeleteI definitely was a subscriber as a kid and I would read each issue cover to cover several times before eventually cutting up the pictures and putting them on my wall. Kinda sad that it's going away, but not a huge shocker. I recently found out PWI is still alive and kicking, which was a surprise since I haven't seen one of those on a news stand in years.
ReplyDeleteThat's how I discovered wrestling and this whole twisted love affair began, lol. I was 4 years old, almost 5, and walking past B. Dalton Booksellers in one of the local malls, and on one of the shelves in front of the windows was that month's issue of WWF Magazine. I can still remember it.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.piledriverwrestling.net/pd1/WWF%20Magazine%20-%20July%201989.jpg
Blue background, Hulk Hogan in all his glory with the gleaming gold Winged Eagle around his waist. I was stunned, I was like, "Who is that, WHAT is that?" I tugged on my dad's sleeve and asked him to buy a copy of that, which was unusual for me as I typically felt reticent asking him for anything as a kid, I'd always ask my mom. I hadn't watched any of the shows before, I hadn't even heard of professional wrestling. But I saw that cover and had to know who and what that was. My dad said yes and here we are 25 years later, lol. Silver anniversary as a fan, and it all started with an issue of WWF Magazine.
Yes, they tried. It didn't work very well.
ReplyDeleteIt's a shame these guys never got to have a match with a finish. Obviously this one is great, but they had a pretty awesome Raw one too that ended with the formation of DX. Both great moments, but I'd love to have just seen, like, a thirty minute match with a clean finish between these guys at some point.
ReplyDeletePushed mostly by Keith over and over again. But yeah, never happened.
ReplyDeleteThat's the first time I've ever heard of someone becoming a fan of something - certainly wrestling - via a magazine. That's really cool, man. Cool in a weird way, but still cool.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I hardly ever see PWI around anymore.
ReplyDeleteI still have most of my issues from 1995-1999 in a box somewhere.
Fuck that shit, where's Dock Murao's Puro ?
ReplyDeleteShut up mark
ReplyDeleteI was there. Easily the best match I've seen live.
ReplyDeleteThe institution that gave us Vince Russo should have been incinerated long ago as a matter of principle.
ReplyDeleteI just got my new copy of Game Informer in the mail today. But I'm a newspaper guy, so I'm a bit weird.
ReplyDeleteWhenever I'm waiting for a train in Manhattan, I look at the newsstands to see the offerings. I NEVER see wrestling magazines anymore.
ReplyDeleteThe first PWI I ever got, the 1987 Achievement Awards issue, was bought from a newsstand in Manhattan as my family was waiting to go to the Statue of Liberty.
His name is Mar
ReplyDeleteThe finish being changed has been debunked over and over.
ReplyDeleteThey totally, totally missed the mark with Vader. He was the guy, it was clear. I mean, just keep booking his as an unstoppable monster from RR to SS and you have it right there. What a total waste.
ReplyDelete4. The Mankind-Shawn match caused a lot of raised eyebrows back in 96 online because of Shawn's worked hissy fit, plus the weak ending and Jim Ross's boo-boo where he seemed to indicate that it would be a title change by hyping the Undertaker-Mankind match the next month as "non-title". All that, to me, has always backed up the changed finish story, but if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Again, much of the info swapped on the 'net in the pre-Meltzer era was third-hand info from hotlines that just ripped off the WON or the Torch, so YMMV.
ReplyDeleteScott himself.
Scott had a bad habit of believing everything he read at RSPW was gospel
ReplyDeleteWhen I first figured out I wanted to be a writer when I grew up, WWF Magazine was one of the places I wanted to work. Sorry to see it go.
ReplyDeleteYeah, a lot of early people in the nascent IWC were like that. Like they were "too smart" to fall for the standard WWF line, so instead they fell for ANOTHER line of half-truths and bullshit instead- hook, line and sinker.
ReplyDeleteI guess in a way I might be the second one, then. I had seen a few random matches without context (my older cousin was channel surfing) but was eager to learn more about this new and exciting thing.
ReplyDeleteso before I saw my very first complete WWF TV show (an episode of "Superstars") I had already been reading the magazine for three months.
So, SO many IWC fans are so keen to believe these little made-up rumors over the years- it actually seems worse with the more old-school fans, because they were probably very young when they discovered RSPW and thus took everything THEY said as gospel, despite being so proud of themselves for no longer buying the "kayfabe" line of WWF & WCW. And it'd just keep getting repeated over and over again.
ReplyDeleteIt even goes on today to a certain extent, partially because wrestlers keep lying in their own interviews, or just plain getting shit wrong. Because people who take bumps on the head and doing drugs for 300 days a year are still easily-believed by some.
Luger blabbing the finish of Wrestlemania X, Ludvig Borga: WWF Champion, Scott Steiner: NWA Champion....
ReplyDeleteVader was late getting to the ring, right? Maybe Vince was asking where he was.
ReplyDeleteWhat's odd is that even at my youngest, I never got this magazine. I either had too small an allowance or was too young to actually find it anywhere. Plus my mom never liked me watching wrestling.
ReplyDeleteI first started getting WWF mags around the "RAW Magazine" era thanks to the Sunny & Marlena swimsuit pages. I might have a Sable one, as well. And a few mags where they did Shoot Interviews with guys (the great Austin one where he rips on HHH for being 20 bloated pounds overweight while business is shitty and still harping about "the cyclical nature of the business").
My favourite stuff from PWI was their "Fantasy Wrestling Tournaments" featuring all of the big stars, with all their information "coded into a computer" that would do the matches for them. Absolutely fucking hilarious to think about just how much bullshit that is.
ReplyDeleteIt got even better later- "now our computers are more advanced, so we can see all the matches in amazing full 3-D GRAPHICS!" in like 1998.
But... but they have topless women on the INTERNET now! And internet on PHONES!
ReplyDeleteI actually have a few recent ones, too. It's actually very good sometimes.
Nintendo Power did that. It was actually a beautiful little tribute, with all the old editors and some creative staff coming back, and a return of some long-dead comic strips the mag used to have.
ReplyDeleteI'd never bought a single issue of NP in my life, but it was amazing. WWF Magazine should have TOTALLY advertised that.
But... but Flair was BEGGING to drop the NWA Title to Steiner and give him the keys to the promotion's destiny! BEGGING!!
ReplyDeleteI grew up with it :/ have them all from 85-99
ReplyDeleteThey only put out 6 issues a year now so business is definitely drying up, but hey, I still pick up the PWI 500 every year.
ReplyDelete2014 edition on sale in 2 weeks!
It's too bad that Foley was so new at the time, and an obviously non-credible threat to Michaels' Title, because the video and the amazing fucking match would have been ideal to end a massive Main Event Feud. Instead, it mostly got forgotten by the WWF until Foley called it his greatest match ever.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I thought we all knew that the changing the match on the fly stuff was all bullshit, didn't we
ReplyDeleteThat was in Foley's book, wasn't it?
ReplyDeleteDid they? I've had the network since the beginning and never got wwe magazine digitally or in print.
ReplyDeleteDusty was on board too. They were both on the same page. DAMNIT RICK STEINER YOU RUIN EVERYTHING
ReplyDeleteThat was a pretty good read. I just assumed it was Masked Man because it was a wrestling feature on Grantland and quickly noticed the difference in writing style.
ReplyDeleteLoved the bit about Hogan being accessible to the younger talent.
My apologies if my ignorance irked anybody on this "rumor". I remember reading about it at the time (18 years ago) and it stuck with me. If I read somewhere that it was debunked, I forgot.
ReplyDeleteThen again, that's why I enjoy the blog: the smarks can teach us marks something new every day.
Um, okay?
ReplyDelete2002?
ReplyDeleteIf I remember correctly, rumor has it that this match would make your balls drop.
ReplyDeleteIt was after Austin returned from "taking his ball and going home".
ReplyDeleteWhat's funny I'd that I remember hearing about a lot of guys before they hit big because of PWI. I immediately recognized Christian Cage, for example.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I remember being 12 and thinking Mankind was interesting, but clearly not going to win the title, and then seeing that opening video package and thinking "awww, it SUCKS he has no shot."
ReplyDeleteI'm... Not sure actually. I am all but certain that I've heard Mick and Shawn tell the same story - but I can't remember the sources. Hmm.
ReplyDelete'salright. It's gotten repeated so many times by now thanks to SOME PEOPLE, that it's not hard to find people who still treat it as fact.
ReplyDeleteSome very good points raised. It's interesting to note how many of the stupid rumours and misconceptions which spread when the IWC was in its infancy continue to abound. The silliest stuff (two Woryahs, two Undertakers, etc.) seems pretty much off the table permanently, but myths like Mankind winning here (I believe this was an SK original) are clearly still taken at face value. In a way, I can't really direct too much anger at the culprits (the originators or the proliferators) for thinking incorrect things at the time (we have a much better idea of the internal politics, booking procedures and structure now, etc.) - it's just rather tedious that they continue to be given the oxygen of credibility. Anyway...
ReplyDeleteTotally agreed on Meltzer, and I don't get why people continue to take him seriously. I'm sure he has his sources, and as one of the few independent wrestling journalists still employed his presence in the business is arguably necessary, but I stand by what Al Snow said in his YouShoot - Dave is the best worker in the business, because he's managed to keep money rolling into his coffers even at points in history when the industry was doing badly, purely based on the illusion that he knows about everything that goes on backstage, and knows the results of matches long in advance. I too think that the vast bulk of his sources are disgruntled ex-employees or disgruntled current employees with an axe to grind - wasn't there that episode years ago where it was basically demonstrated he was printing anything Matt Hardy (then fired as a result of the Edge/Lita thing) fed him?
It seems pretty clear that Matt was feeding him stuff, yeah. I don't read a ton of Meltzer, but it seems like certain names (Nash, Triple-H) consistently look bad. Certain guys always seemed cool, according to Meltz. Hell, I never heard word one about Chris Benoit being kind of vicious backstage until AFTER he'd killed his family and then himself.
ReplyDelete