Friday, October 3, 2014

BoD Daily Update

Potential John Cena/Dean Ambrose Feud in the Works?

Even if the WWE decides not to a Cena vs. Ambrose match at RAW, the match might actually happen at Hell in a Cell with the winner facing Seth Rollins and there is are definite plans for a future Cena/Ambrose feud in the works.

Credit PWInsider.com via Wrestling Inc



WWE Inviting "Today Show" Hosts to RAW

Hosts Hoda Kotb and Kathie Lee Gifford will be on the show to promote National Breast Cancer Awareness Month

http://www.wwe.com/inside/overtheropes/kathie-lee-gifford-hoda-kotb-joan-lunden-raw-26696317



Joey Mercury & Jamie Noble Update

There in fact has been talk about turning Noble & Mercury into stooges for The Authority, much like Gerald Brisco & Pat Patterson were for Vince McMahon.

Credit Dave Meltzer, Wrestling Observer Newsletter



WWE Releases Developmental Trainer

Nick Dinsmore has been released by the WWE where he had been a trainer in NXT. Reportedly, Dinsmore was considered as an excellent trainer and well-liked and the speculation backstage among those in the company was that Dinsmore had gotten on the wrong person's bad side backstage.

Credit PWInsider.com





464 comments:

  1. I hope no one tries to hit on Kathie Lee while in gimmick, when you pass on she won't forgive you!

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  2. Love items No. and No. 3.

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  3. I love the idea of a Cena/Ambrose feud. You want to propel your new grassroots, fan-chosen babyface to the level of stardom Punk and Bryan reached? Then put him against your top guy- and your top heel when need be for such situations- for whom feuding against propelled those guys to that level.

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  4. And I wonder why didn't they just go with the New Age Outlaws as the new stooges like they'd started to last winter? You not only have the backstory and the name value, but they're more entertaining in the role.

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  5. TJ: So I was watching Pawn Stars last night and they had an ECW Tag Team Title belt on a shelf behind Rick in one of the shots. Who sold the belt? I assumed Roadkill since he had one and said he would sell it, but he wanted $35K which was what he was owed by Paul.

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  6. I'm pretty sure that if wrestling fans aren't aware of breast cancer before now, Kathie Lee Gifford won't be the one to sway their worldview.

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  7. Because they were tag team champions, accomplished wrestlers, etc. You need hapless buffoons in that role.

    (Yes, I know Mercury and Noble were wrestlers who held titles, too. It's not the same.)

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  8. Dinsmore got released? That's retarded.

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  9. The Authority doesn't need stooges. They have Kane.

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  10. Patterson and Brisco weren't accomplished wrestlers? I'd say that makes it all the better, having guys who were noteworthy as such who are willing to play the hapless buffoon. I thought the NAO would have happily accepted that role. Oh well.

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  11. So when's Prostate, Testicular, Colon, etc. cancer awareness months in the WWE? WWE just donates money to Comen so they can say they donate money to breast cancer research. If they weren't allowed to promote the partnership or donations, they would never make the donation in the first place.

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  12. "The sent the cruiserweight division" was one of the better lines I've heard in a long while

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  13. Brisco and Patterson weren't exactly jobbers.

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  14. How many fans back in the Attitude Era ever saw Patterson or Brisco wrestle? Probably not many. As accomplished as they were, they could play the stooge role well because most of the audience either weren't watching or weren't alive in their heyday

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  15. Slightly off topic, their match against the Mean Street Posse was incredible. At first, we all thought they were being led to the slaughter house due to their age... then HOLY F*CK, THEY STILL GOT IT, and they beat the hell out of the posse. Awesomeness.

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  16. As a kid growing up, I had no idea Patterson and Brisco were so accomplished. None of my wrasslin-watchin friends did either. I think bumbling goons are better when they don't come from as prestigious a background.

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  17. Heel Cena vs face Ambrose could be huuuuuuuuuge and set the promotion on fire again but I expect it will be same boring shit we've seen for the past 10 years. #LOLRATINGSARESTAGNANT

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  18. Let's hope it results in the push, and not the Cena squash/kiss of death others have felt.

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  19. I think I'm just gonna avoid WWE this month. They are more annoying than usual with this Komen bullshit.

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  20. I'm already cringing at the thought of Ambrose cutting an amazing, scathing promo on Cena, and Cena laughing him off all 'LOLNOPE' style.

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  21. The build for Punk/Cena was great and that was because Punk was so great, Cena didn't really do much. I thought the build for Bryan/Cena was kinda meh.

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  22. Pete Gas is a miracle worker!

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  23. Cena was great in the Punk feud(s). If anything, I preferred his mic work to Punk's in that awesome pre-SummerSlam 2011 contract signing segment they had. With the crowd booing the hell out of him and his more-condescending-than-usual attitude (telling Punk that if he loses he'll just be another one-hit wonder), it gave like a tantalizing taste of what a heel, corporate Cena would be like in a better world.

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  24. I'm on board for Cena-Ambrose. Cena seems like the only guy capable of making new stars now. It's only in face/face match ups but it happens.

    RVD, Punk and Bryan's rises aren't nearly as special if it's anybody but Cena across the ring from them.

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  25. Zero need for a heel turn, the crowd can decide for themselves, just like Cena/Bryan. No need to change anything really.

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  26. Cena does way better promos in the face/face feuds. The Japan promo with Bryan last year was phenomenal.

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  27. "Potential John Cena/Dean Ambrose Feud in the Works?"

    This makes me happy just because of how sad it will make others. Not the feud mind you, just the news item alone will likely defeat the sanity of many.

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  28. I hated his pandering "if you fire Punk, I'll go work Thursdays brother" promo and him punching Punk after he called him the Yankees.

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  29. They may as well have been for the general audience. Plus they're both somewhat in-shape middle-aged guys who walk around in their ring gear, whereas Patterson and Brisco were out-of-shape older guys in suits.

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  30. I understand what you mean, but I don't blame Cena at all for the Cesaro/Sandow de-pushes. I feel they did come off as great after their losses to Cena, WWE just didn't follow through with them, and they started jobbing them out. So it's WWE creative, not Cena.

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  31. I agree about the first point where he was defending Punk, but I thought he was a little bit better than Punk in their face-to-face back-and-forth promos.

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  32. OMG CENA'S GONNA BURY AMBROSE!


    :)

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  33. I think Sandow's loss is arguable, but Cesaro definitely looked like a million bucks after his matches with Cena.

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  34. Ambrose is totally gonna get buried, cause Cena will OVERCOME THE ODDZ and win, like he ALWAYS wins (ignoring all the times he lost clean), #LOLCENAWINZ

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  35. DAMN YOU. beat me to it by 0.3 seconds.

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  36. I don't think I have the energy to deal with the fans will just cheer him/sells too much merch/as long as he gets a reaction/WERE JUST TELLING STORIES DAMNIT myths right now.

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  37. You are stomping a mud hole and walking it dry!!

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  38. I'll give you RVD and Punk but not Bryan. DB pinned Cena but the HHH feud is what elevated Bryan and kept him in the spotlight.

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  39. Yep, he proved to be his "freak strength" equal.

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  40. Biff Kensington IIIOctober 3, 2014 at 8:18 AM

    A possible Cena-Ambrose feud is like having unprotected sex with the prettiest girl at the whorehouse. No matter how hot it looks on paper, it's never a good decision.

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  41. I have never sexually molested ice cream.

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  42. Sure, I'm mostly referring to the aura around it; some of the guys that get involved with Cena derail after. Not saying its all Cena's fault or anything, but just based on the past, I hope Ambrose continues to skyrocket vs the alternative.

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  43. How so? I think it would totally elevate Dean because hardcore fans will cheer him even more against the hated sell-out Cena.

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  44. Yeah, but somehow, Cena always overcomes.

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  45. As others have pointed out, both Punk and Bryan (who, like Ambrose, are former indy internet darlings) looked really good in their feuds with Cena and were elevated. I expect/hope an Ambrose/Cena feud goes the same way.

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  46. You'd think Cena was the boogeyman in the closet for people with how terrified they get of his feuds. Put him against a Smark favorite (even if he always loses those feuds) and smarks start crying and peeing themselves. I think it's my favorite thing about the IWC.

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  47. Yes, but the match against Cena and Bryan winning clean is what kickstarted that. And Cena cut at least two promos- the next night and in December at the "ascension ceremony"- referencing Bryan's win that furthered his cause, as well.

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  48. Biff Kensington IIIOctober 3, 2014 at 8:20 AM

    For every Bryan/Cena, there's three examples of a Cena/Wyatt. #LOLCenaWillWin

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  49. I disagree with that.


    Cena didnt have to do anything. He was JOHN CENA. The establishment.



    The only problem I have with Cena/Ambrose is that Ambrose hasn't had the WWE career Punk. The constant mismanagement. The burials. The start-stop pushes and the treadmill.

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  50. The whole Japan promo with Cena and the slaps were amazing. You needed that feud to get him to where he was with the Authority.

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  51. Here's something to research for fun:


    Does Cena put over every other "new" opponent? If so, Ambrose is in GREAT shape after Cena took care of Wyatt.


    (Lesnar's not "new", otherwise Ambrose is fucked.)

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  52. Yeah, but there was a certain amount of (protected) de-pushing in between SummerSlam and WrestleMania. Bryan had to be built back a bit. In the initial feud with Bryan, Cena did his job (pun intended) perfectly.

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  53. It doesn't matter if Dean loses every match against Cena. He'll become even more over.

    People have to realize that Dean's singles push is still in its infancy. As much as I loathe Cena, going toe-to-toe, 50-50 with the industry's biggest star is a positive.

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  54. Gotta recapture that attitude era magic! Bring back the stooges!!!

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  55. Nick Dinsmore probably shook Triple H's hand like a total retard.

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  56. That's still a pretty damn good percentage when it comes to the top face of the company putting others over. Compare that to previous top faces. (And for the record, Rock only started putting people over as a face after he had one foot in Hollywood. 1999 to 2001 Rock barely ever put anyone over)

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  57. Tremendous. Deep. Accurate.

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  58. That doesn't make sense. Triple H is his favorite wrestler!

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  59. The 'Taker feud in 2009 hurt Punk, but I don't know that he was ever buried during his WWE career. He was generally pretty well-booked (in relation to most of the roster) right out of the gate.

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  60. Exactly. Cena's been very, very good for guys in that situation and I think the same will be true of Ambrose. (Obviously RVD fucked his own shit up, but he was headed in the same direction as Bryan and Punk before that.) And it's because- and it's almost cliché to say at this point, but it's still true- Cena is absolutely their most effective heel in such situations.

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  61. He told me with tears in eyes that Bret Hart was his favorite and should be made champ.

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  62. Biff Kensington IIIOctober 3, 2014 at 8:24 AM

    I don't have a problem with breast cancer research, I swear. But it kills me that our society singles out that ONE type while most other forms of the disease get diddly in terms of attention. My dad and two grandparents died from cancer, so it's a personal thing I guess.

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  63. Except all the times he doesn't.

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  64. Except against Punk RVD and Bryan.

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  65. That is the slogan of the Whorehouse.

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  66. I'm just referring to the fact that he laughs it off and moves on.

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  67. I don't mind Cena being on top but I HATE that he's at a level above other main-eventers. One of the cool things about the Attitude Era was that main-eventers could beat each other. HHH wasn't higher than Austin or Rock and Foley, Big Show, Jericho, Taker and others could win matches against other main eventers, too.

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  68. Yeah, but where all three of those guys now, huh?

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  69. Yeah, I hate that. There's never any emotional stakes in his programs. And when they try to shoehorn them in, it's cheesy and unbelievable.

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  70. Just putting people over doesn't mean shit, it's when and how you do it. Who has Cena "made"? Definitely not Punk or Bryan.

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  71. I think austin/Rock/HHH were definitely above the others. I think there were lots of Russofied finishes, like with run ins and crooked refs that gave us the illusion that it was a perfect utopia of 12 even main eventers. It really was Austin/Rock/HHH > everyone else for the most part.

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  72. Fucking AJ, Getting High, and Fucking Brie?


    Well, two out of three ain't bad.

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  73. Right. I'm not saying he doesn't put people over. I just hate how diminished the impact is afterwards.

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  74. *cough* WrestleMania 29 *Cough*

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  75. One quit, one ruined it by stupidly getting caught with drugs, and one is currently injured.



    THAT DAMN CENA!! HE IS TO BLAME FOR ALL OF IT!

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  76. You take things too serious, Vince. Just relax.

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  77. What's really cool is that it's reciprocated. These feuds make Cena seem more sympathetic whether he's led to the slaughter against RVD, or an unwilling tool of a corporation against Punk, or the made guy that knows he'll never be a smark darling and wants a taste of it against Bryan.

    The darlings look good and Cena looks good.

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  78. True, but even then there was a hierarchy in some of the feuds. 'Taker for example, treated Angle like a joke in their PPV matches in 2000, but Rocky and HHH treated him as being more of a threat, even if they mocked him on TV (and that was partially because his character was supposed to be comedic).

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  79. Umm... how was my awesome, humourous sarcastic post serious? I bring da funnies!!

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  80. Cesaro and Sandow de-pushes are all due to the creative team. Cena helped them in their matches

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  81. (For the record, RVD and Brian get halves each.)

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  82. I agree. But there's no tippy top trio now who can trade wins. There's really just Cena and that's no fun.

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  83. Cena didn't act like the establishment though. That's my point about him punching Punk when he was called that. It was such a stupid reaction. And it rendered the act of him rejecting the establishment at the end of the match pointless.

    Zero change in character, zero growth. Just like the buyrates and ratings under Cena's watch.

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  84. No he wasn't.


    Survivor Series 06, despite the whole crowd cheering his every move.
    December to Dismember... eliminated in favor of Bob Holly and Lashley
    The tag runs in 07 with Kofi?
    The constant fued with Burke... and then Jomo on ECW
    The open burials JBL gave him on RAW as champion in 08.
    Big Show beating him and the SES to a pulp
    Taker.
    New Nexus?


    He made sugar out of shit a couple of times, but he wasn't booked well out the gate.

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  85. Yep, he should cry and moan and bitch like a 4 year old.



    Just like when a pro athlete loses a game, he just whines about it and pouts. They never ever shake it off and focus on the next game.

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  86. Biff Kensington IIIOctober 3, 2014 at 8:31 AM

    It's sickening how far they'll go to pander for publicity. Everything they do reeks of self-promotion, and it's sad.

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  87. There was in the Punk feud though, which was why it felt so special. Even when they were feuding against other guys, you always knew that Punk was the official thorn in Cena's side who almost always got the better of him.

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  88. He shouldn't smile and joke about it, no. Ignoring it to focus on his next feud is fine.

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  89. Thats because they book him like Poochie the Dog.


    Cuz Cole will shill him like the face of the company.
    But at the same time, he rejects Vince and the higher ups.

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  90. Not every main eventer has "made" another guy. I don't think Austin ever made anyone.

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  91. Does he smile and joke about it that often? He didn't against Rock, he didn't against Bryan, he didn't against Orton in the unification match, he didn't against Brock... Was there one specific example that people always go to, I'm legit asking.

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  92. Pressed enter on accident.


    But to the fans at home, Cena is THE GUY, regardless on the shit booking of Cena's character during Cena/Punk I

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  93. Brock, Cena, and definitely Bryan when he comes back. Punk would have been there too had he not quit.

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  94. That is, by far, the stupidest thing you've ever said. And there's a long-ass list.

    Professional wrestling is not like professional sports. And even so, if LeBron loses a game, he doesn't smile and giggle and make poop jokes. He gets his death stare on, trains harder and annihilates the opponent in the next game.

    If Cena's character showed some emotional weakness and depth, there wouldn't be the one kid in the crowd chanting "Let's Go Cena" when Brock Lesnar gives him the beating of his life.

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  95. Obligatory: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lcb8RoxQPD0

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  96. As a heel, I guess he made Angle, but as a top face, not much. MAYBE HHH in the 3 stages of hell match. Cena has certainly made more, though.

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  97. I know i hear LOTS of pleas from posters here about how Wrestling should be made to look more realistic. So Cena shaking off a loss and getting back on focus is an example of realism.

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  98. RVD is fucking Sonya Szatkowski and that's not exactly a punishment.

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  99. It doesn't seem genuine from him at all. Maybe he's just a terrible actor but he's the least convincing main-eventer I've ever seen.

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  100. Feel free to name them. I'll wait.

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  101. You'll just say "no he didn't make them, because that guy eventually lost a match 3 years later" or something.



    But yeah, RVD, Edge, Punk, Bryan, Brock, Orton have all benefited from beating him at some point.

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  102. Hell no. Austin squashed Rock every single time they faced. Rock got super over despite always losing to Austin.

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  103. I know, but every time they have a chance to make him interesting, do something different, get people to stop hating him, they don't. The willfully have their heads in the sand when it comes to Cena. It's bizarre.

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  104. I guess I just feel like it's nit picking, when it comes to finding things to hate about Cena.

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  105. I'm not saying he was booked like Lesnar circa '02. I'm saying he got a pretty good deal considering he was new to the company and considering that most other (new) guys on the roster weren't booked as well. I'm not sure how being part of Team DX in a Survivor Series clean-sweep victory is a burial. Or tag teaming with Kofi. Or being positioned as a big player on ECW and winning the brand's world title. Or having his own stable (well, two actually) and going on to face the company's second biggest star at the time at WrestleMania. The Big Show and 'Taker feuds I agree made him look bad, but he wasn't buried.

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  106. I'm sad we never got a full-blown babyface Regal versus heel HHH feud. That would've been great.

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  107. Yep, during his first few years, he held the ECW title, the Tag titles, the IC title (99% sure he did), and the WHC. He was always doing something and being booked like a guy who can win a big match. That's pretty good for your first few years.

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  108. True, but during the AE Jericho always looked good against HHH.

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  109. Bret made Austin despite Austin never beating him. This is fake fucking wrestling we are talking about here, wins and losses don't matter.

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  110. Their feud was great for both guys, but he didn't make Rock.

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  111. I agree with all of this. John Cena doesn't really have to "do" anything in particular because like you said, he's John Cena. All he has to do is show up and do John Cena stuff for Punk (or Bryan, or Ambrose, or whatever other fan-chosen, grassroots babyface star there is) to play off of.
    This is why I'm starting to think, as someone here said recently, they should do a Reigns/Cena program when Reigns gets back. If the responses he's getting are more tepid than they'd like, and while he's getting *good* face pops they probably aren't the monster pops they'd like him to be getting, what better way to change that than let him be the bad motherfucker who breaks off Cena?

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  112. Angle looked like a million bucks in his feud with Austin, but I think he already viewed as a pretty legitimate top competitor before that. The same is definitely true of HHH, who'd been dominating the company for a while before Austin's return and their company.

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  113. Biff Kensington IIIOctober 3, 2014 at 8:46 AM

    If Titty Master Dean Ambrose makes a pass at Kathy Lee and Hoda on Raw and becomes the Leathery Chick Thriller

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  114. ..........The Hoda Kathie Lee thing is a rib...on someone right? I really can't see how this won't be a disaster. I know they try and protect the celebs that come but ..these two are going to get shit on the second they walk out unless they think they can guilt the fans into a if you boo them you boo cancer charity.

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  115. I always make the difference clear between "top face" and "top heel". Because top faces simply do not job clean very often in wrestling.

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  116. Exactly. There was definitely a degree of stop-start pushing with Punk before the pipebomb, but even then he'd go from being a main eventer back to being an upper midcarder. It wasn't like he sunk really low. He was always given something to do.

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  117. So Austin treating him like a rag doll over and over made the Rock, but Cena jobbing clean to Punk and Bryan did NOT make them? wow...

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  118. Worst_in_the_WorldOctober 3, 2014 at 8:47 AM

    For as shittily as it always winds up to have a rising heel feud with John Cena (Bray Wyatt ahem ahem), it actually usually is a great thing for rising babyfaces. The Cena match put RVD about as over as humanely possible. The Cena feud turned Punk into a megastar, and Bryan into a legit main eventer. Hell, one of the biggest reasons that cesaro was getting so ungodly over as a face heading into Mania (aside from teh swing and Cesaro's general awesomeness) was that awesome 20-min match with cena on Raw.
    And though he was exactly a "rising" babyface, a big part of why The Rock was so incredibly well-received in his 2011 and 2012 returns was that he was a face getting the better of John cena.

    WHich is all to say I'm optimistic about Cena/Ambrose. Cena is just an awful opponent for heels, as for whatever reason he (or Vince booking him) feels the need to laugh them off, expose their gimmicks, and give them almost nothing in terms of wins/losses. But with face opponents John absolutely has proven to be an A+ player at getting others over. So, this could be cool.

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  119. Biff Kensington IIIOctober 3, 2014 at 8:47 AM

    They'll probably tie it into the Bella feud.

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  120. I don't think we were really supposed to "like" him at that point, though, and not just in the "he's already a heel to the fans he needs to be a heel to" sort of way. Because you're right, he was being a dick trying to play both sides of things, and maybe I'm giving them more credit but I think we were *supposed* to see him come off as pandering at that point.

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  121. The Ambrose Cena thing....I guess I'll wait and see how it goes. It has potential but they could also flush everything the crowd loves about Ambrose down the toilet and have him job out to Cena.

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  122. All the lulz at throwing out Brock's name. Seriously the best out of my ass comment you've ever made.

    As for the rest of the list.

    RVD was already a made guy and on the downswing of his career by ONS.

    He could have made Edge by working with him at that year's Mania instead of HHH. Fortunately Foley picked up the slack.

    The pipe bomb made Punk. Cena was just a guy in that program.

    Orton was already an established main eventer by the time he hooked up with Cena.

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  123. You can't say it's nit-picking when he's the top babyface and he's getting booed out of arenas. It's not just the people here who are unconvinced.

    You can blame WWE for the way Cena is pushed or whatever. But that doesn't mean the fans have to swallow it.

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  124. Brock sure as hell got solidified by adding the Cena squash to follow up his breaking of the streak.



    But your cena hate is getting absurd, so i'll just drop it.

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  125. Still...and maybe I'm out of touch and these aren't attitude era crowds but... I don't see how a WWE crowd doesn't shit on Kathie fucking Lee the second she pops up on Raw.

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  126. Really? Punk's pipebomb wouldn't have meant much if he hadn't gone on to beat the industry's biggest star at the next PPV.

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  127. And the fans made Bryan.

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  128. Forget it! Cena is a big meanie and has buried every single rassler he ever faced! While Austin was the most unselfish guy ever, and made 18 guys!!



    #CultsFantasyWorld

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  129. Worst_in_the_WorldOctober 3, 2014 at 8:50 AM

    Yeah I call BS on that too. The Cena feud (which doesn't work unless the opponent was in fact JOHN CENA) absolutely made Punk into a megastar. Punk was fucking awesome in that feud, but Cena standing across from him on the mic and in that match made it all special.

    And Bryan pinning Cena clean is what stamped him as a main event guy instead of an exciting guy on Raw.

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  130. Bryan was over, yes. But are you really trying to act like Cena laying down for him didn't help him, especially as far as his perceived legitimacy goes?

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  131. Never underestimate the number of "Live with Regis and Kathi Lee" marks there are in the audience.

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  132. It would have meant more if he lost.

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  133. oh Reg would get a hero's welcome..but Kathie?

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  134. I agree. I think that there were definitely times during the Punk feud when Cena was legitimately heeling it up a little.

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  135. MikeyMike, WitnessOctober 3, 2014 at 8:52 AM

    I think the idea of a match to face Rollins is stupid at the actual PPV.

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  136. The best was when they had Erick Rowan out there in a pink shirt last year. I get that kayfabe is kinda dead but that was just insulting to the audience.

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  137. Worst_in_the_WorldOctober 3, 2014 at 8:53 AM

    Calling cena "just another guy" in that feud is crazy talk. The pipe bomb was amazing, but Punk became made because he closed the deal. And that deal was beating the most unbeatable guy--- and the absolute symbol of what he was railing against--- in an actual match. Punk loses that match and the pipe bomb is no better than the Nexus invasion on Raw.

    Punk beating Cena in a classic is the star making night.

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  138. " I'm not sure how being part of Team DX in a Survivor Series clean-sweep
    victory is a burial. Or tag teaming with Kofi. Or being positioned as a
    big player on ECW and winning the brand's world title. Or having his
    own stable (well, two actually) and going on to face the company's
    second biggest star at the time at WrestleMania."


    I will give you my opinion on how its a burial IMO.


    1. SS06 was in Philly (ECW/ROH HQ) and Punk was thrown in the group as a nod to the smart fans. The guy he was fueding with (Knox) was put out within seconds of the match and had no ring interaction with Punk. IIRC Punk really had no ring time. Shit was a squash... so why put him in there and not use him for the squash to get him over more? He is already God in Philly but you dont use him? Suspect.


    2. Tag-team with Kofi? Rarely defended and lost it at a house show.


    3. ECW was looking like they were doing a parallel push for RVD to regain the belt to face off against Punk to pass the torch. For them to scrap all that and book D2D PPV, caused Heyman to quit the company for years.



    4. SES/Nexus was something for Punk to do to keep him happy. SES was never meant to get over but it did due to the work of Hardy/Punk and as soon as that was done, Taker came... Show came... and he was put back in his place. Im all for heels losing in the end but you have to get some heat first. Taker just came in a went over. Show embarassed the whole stable. No one was allowed to get real heat on Show. Nexus was DOA by the time he came around.



    Its really only due to the charisma of Punk and the fact he can turn anything into an enjoyable program based solely on his awesomeness, that those programs are remembered... but they werent any good.


    critically or commerically.


    Its only when he went up against Cena when the bucks started coming in for him.

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  139. How did Edge benefit by cashing in on Cena and then immediately dropping the title back to him? I'd argue that Edge got over in spite of how he was booked against Cena.

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  140. Well, the Cena feud was his entry into the main event for one …

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  141. Brock doesn't need to get "solidified" he is a way bigger star than Cena ever was.

    And Rock made Brock way back when.

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  142. Wait, what? If you're referring to Cena, he did lose. There was an unintended distraction from Vince/Johnny Ace, but Punk still got the three count.


    Or are you arguing that it would've meant more if Cena'd won at MITB … ?

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  143. Apparently your logic goes out the window with your energy.

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  144. Worst_in_the_WorldOctober 3, 2014 at 8:56 AM

    To who, 5 people on the internet who would have been more in Punk's favor because "he got screwed again?" No way man, no way. Punk became a star because he backed up his words and won the match. Wins and losses absolutely matter at that level.

    Punk won a classic and validated himself to the fans. Again, if he doesn't win the match, then the pipe bomb just becomes a throwaway segment like the Nexus invasion. Instead it was the first step in Punk becominga legit main event guy.

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  145. I meant their extended feud in mid 2006. I don't think Edge was ready to be a main eventer yet during the cash in. (Cena was barely one himself). After both got huge WM 22 wins, then they were solid main eventers in the summer.

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  146. But how is any of that a burial? There's a middle ground between not being booked like a million bucks, and being buried. If the points you list are your idea of burials, then just about every big-name wrestler ever has been 'buried' at some point …

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  147. Some peoples' refusal to give Cena any credit for anything is hilarious.

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  148. Why do they call Dean Ambrose the "titty master"?

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  149. It was a plot device to turn Orton and HHH heel.

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  150. It also served that function, yes.

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  151. I love how when it comes to the IWC, it's actually #LOLCENACANTWIN

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  152. MikeyMike, WitnessOctober 3, 2014 at 9:00 AM

    He supposedly writes that on his wrist tape. Or did.

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  153. Or could be, like Ryback, Ambrose turns heel and LOLCENAWINS

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  154. In theory, yes. But Cena didn't pull his weight in that feud. He was just there because of his name value and him being the top guy for so long. Punk vs Vince was way more interesting.

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  155. Punk was one of the best overall pushed guys of the past decade. I love how it's somehow twisted into a burial.

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  156. I'd argue winning the briefcase was his entry into the main event, but they immediately moved the title back to Cena weeks after he cashed it in (even though ratings were climbing). Later that year, Edge won it back by pinning RVD, not Cena in a triple threat before giving it back to Cena.

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  157. I agree. It's times like those that make the Cena crowd dynamic totally worth it.

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  158. Hmm...Jericho has Asa Akira on his podcast today. That should be interesting...

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  159. Worst_in_the_WorldOctober 3, 2014 at 9:03 AM

    I'd say that feud absolutely got Edge over as the smartest guy on the roster and more importantly as the sleeziest guy on the roster. That cash-in and the Cena feud in general created the "ultimate opportunist" persona that pretty much became his calling card for the rest of his career.

    Plus, he always went toe to toe with Cena in actual matches, including beating him relatively clean (well, foreign object in a back and forth match) at Summerslam in Boston. That feud was great for Edge, and great for Cena too.

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  160. There was a sign in the crowd during an episode of RAW a while back that said "Titty Master Dean Ambrose" or something like that.

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  161. I literally said neither. But business is booming with Cena on top in #JordanaFantasyWorld!

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  162. MikeyMike, WitnessOctober 3, 2014 at 9:04 AM

    If they turn Ambrose heel I'll be very angry. It'd be like Austin getting hot in 97 and SWERVE, he joins DX.

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  163. But that's not what he does at all.

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  164. Worst_in_the_WorldOctober 3, 2014 at 9:06 AM

    And it established Bryan as a main eventer who was capable of pinning clean the most protected guy in the company.
    And Cena referenced the clean loss to Bryan several times on TV afterwards.
    We can all tear apart the booking of the Bryan/Authority feud, but saying that the Cena match didn't put Bryan over is ridiculous. He cleanly pinned the biggest star in a highly promoted match on their second biggest show of the year, and the result was brought up by Cena himself several times after.


    It's what made Bryan officially go from midcarder to someone able to be positioned as the #1 face on the TV show.

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  165. Edge didn't actually cash in the briefcase for like nine months though, and during that time he was feuding with guys like Hardy and Flair. When he cashed in, that was when he really entered the ME scene. Yeah, he faced Foley at 'Mania, but he re-entered the world title scene on RAW the next night.

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  166. If it was anything more, Big Show wouldn't have gotten his spot and he wouldn't have joined the Wyatts.

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  167. He doesn't? He loses, he accepts it, and moves on. Sounds smart and realistic.

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  168. I remember Lance Storm going off on cancer awareness a while
    ago. He had some good points about where the money goes, about how much more
    aware people need to be about this disease, etc.

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  169. I seriously doubt this is happening, especially with Reigns and Bryan both on the shelf.

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  170. nope nope nope!! CENA SUCKZ!! HE NEVER PUTS ANYONE OVER, EVER!!

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  171. Austin in DX. There's an interesting alternate universe scenario …

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  172. I think they tried their best to fix it, but having Cena go over at the Rumble could have really cut Edge off at the knees. I still think they should have had Edge go over at the Rumble and build to Cena beating him for the title at Mania.

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  173. They clearly got cold feet about his big push (SummerSlam did a somewhat disappointing buyrate), but the victory itself was one of the biggest moments of Bryan's career.

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  174. You don’t think the whole “Cheer me if you want, boo me if
    you want, I respect the Universe, you cannot deny I will always FIGHT and blah
    blah blah” schtick of Cena’s is a little stale? It’s every damn program he’s
    in, and having Ambrose have to play the whole “respect” game too will really
    hurt his aura. Hopefully he just smashes Cena verbally.

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  175. Austin was so fucking awesome for a while he made almost
    everyone else in the promotion seem cool just by being on the same show.

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  176. I imagine they'd just have Ambrose laugh at Cena if he did one of those promos.

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  177. I always find the dynamic awesome. And this one will be no different. Kids and possibly women will cheer Cena with a passion, the rest will cheer Ambrose with a passion. I don't think it ever gets old, electric ambiance every time.

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  178. Nikki and/or Brie have breast cancer?!

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  179. Yeah, but we've seen it. We know EXACTLY what Cena is going to say in these promos. Why bother? It's so stale.

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  180. Punk didn't need to the validation because he already had it when he cut that promo.

    I'm not saying it was a bad thing that he won, just that it's a way better story if Cena turns heel, retains, and Punk beats him at Mania.

    The whole crux of that angle was Punk vs the establishment. Cena was only the establishment in a meta way, he rejected it in kayfab every step of the way. And still does.

    An Ambrose/Cena will most likely be that type of feud and it will suck because Cena refuses to play that part.

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  181. This thread is already overlong, so i'll save my weekly "I'll defend the WM 22 main event and Foley/Edge until the day I die" rant for another day. :)

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  182. Worst_in_the_WorldOctober 3, 2014 at 9:14 AM

    I mean not in theory though, in practice. Even if you think Cena was awful in those promos (which I'd completely disagree with, I thought Cena was awesome and put that match over maybe even better than Punk himself), here's the thing: just him being John Cena is absolutely HUGE. Punk calling John out and ripping apart the biggest star in the company (and the guy that fans absolutely HATE) is what made Punk look like a god.

    That feud is where all the years of Cena being over protected, and Cena being hated by fans like us, pays off. Punk saying all that shit into a vacuum doesn't matter. Punk standing toe to toe and calling out JOHN CENA is what gets everyone's juices going.

    And I love Vince as a performer and agree that Punk/Vince is absolutely something that should have been further expolred. Totally. But again, you're discounting John cena's role out of pure Cena-hate. The Chicago match absolutely made CM Punk. It was one of the best WWE matches ever and worked equally because of Cena himself. Punk wasn't out there wrestling a broomstick--- Cena was great in that match. And again, the match worked because Punk was reversing and kicking out of Cena's heavily protected spots. That's what had teh crowds losing their fucking minds, because HOLY SHIT Punk just reversed the STF into an anaconda vice.

    That feud and that match made CM Punk into THE GUY, and it worked because it was John cena on the other side.

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  183. That's some serious hindsight yo. He was a main eventer a year and change before that.

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  184. Yay alcoholism!

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  185. Oprah NoodlemantraOctober 3, 2014 at 9:17 AM

    "Kathie Lee, we TOTALLY want to hear about your kids!"

    - said no one.

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  186. Yay alcoholism!!

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  187. Yeah. Cena obviously has some pull backstage, but he doesn't book the shows. He did what he could to put Bryan over.

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  188. Worst_in_the_WorldOctober 3, 2014 at 9:21 AM

    I 100% disagree. There were lots of great storylines that they should have done heading out of MITB '11 and going into Mania for Punk. Lots of them and they didn't do them. But to say that the ONLY way that works is if Punk loses at MITB and then wins the rematch at mania? Don't buy it. Now you're just at sucha level of Cena hate where you're blaming him for NOT LOSING a match.

    Punk needed that win or his character was DOA. The pipe bomb absolutely means shit of Punk doesn't win. Remember, before that feud CM Punk was a midcarder who was losing clean to Orton and teaming with nexus as a jobber tag team. He was floundering. Yeah the pipe bomb meant a lot, but that win at MITB meant 100x more. He had to win to prove to his fans that he was a winner, and not just all talk. He needed that moment where Chicago absolutely exploded for him. He needed to do something huge that makes his fans HAPPY, because that's what turns babyfaces into stars. He needed the blowing a kiss goddbye with the title moment.

    Come on man, MITB is generally accepted as one of the best matches and PPV finishes of all-time, and you're critiquing Cena because that's how it played out?

    Punk loses that match and the pipe bomb means pretty much jackshit. That match was gigantic for him.

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  189. At this point, I think Cult is trolling. So I'm keeping my replies to him short and sarcastic. :)

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  190. Hoda Kotb sounds like someone in desperate need of a vowel movement.

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  191. That promo wasn't about Cena though! It was about Vince and the WWE.

    Obviously Cena was weaved into because they had a match to promote but it was much more a rallying cry against everything wrong with Vince and the WWE. And yes to us, Cena represents that. But the problem is Cena rejects it and kills the point dead.

    It's like Anakin refuses Palpatine's offer and still fighting Obi-Wan.

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