Friday, October 31, 2014

Brock v. Cena

From the daily update:

Yeah NOC did terrible business, so I can't remotely understand why they are going to rerun it a bigger show? Have Lesnar fight anyone else. Shit I'd be more interested in seeing what kind of match he could have with big show over cena part 4 as a placeholder to mania.


Here's the deal with their thinking according to Meltzer:  Brock Lesnar costs them a bazillion dollars a match, so the only chance they have at recouping their costs in the deal is to put him in the ring with the biggest star they have available at the time (or on the outside have him completely destroy a minor star like Big Show) and at the moment that would only be John Cena.  They're not paying him all that money to make other guys into stars, because that's not their mindset.  If Rock was around, or Batista, for example, that would be justifiable.  Anyone under that level, to them, is just making Brock less special.

NOW, that being said, I think they're full of crap because the way that wrestling is supposed to work is that the bigger stars use their star power to make the smaller stars into bigger ones.  But when you're booking for investors and using soap opera writers, obviously that mindset kind of gets lost in the shuffle.  

    260 comments:

    1. I was legitimately excited to see Brock vs. Randy Orton ... arguably as big a star as Cena and a completely fresh match up. I don't know why I thought i would get to see it.

      ReplyDelete
    2. I don't see any reason why Orton couldn't have been plugged in there to work with Brock. Are they afraid someone else vs Brock might do better business?

      ReplyDelete
    3. That's why I get annoyed when people bring up Cesaro or Sheamus as opponents. They are nowhere near his level and it would just be a waste of everybody's time.

      Only fresh match ups that are feasible are Orton, Reigns and Bryan.

      ReplyDelete
    4. Worst_in_the_WorldOctober 31, 2014 at 1:13 PM

      Cena vs Lesnar drew absolute crap at Night of Champions (less people paid to see that than fucking BATTLEGROUND), so even financially what's the point of doing it again to what will be even more diminishing returns? If Cena/Lesnar in September did huge numbers then sure, do what ya gotta do. But it didn't increase subscribers and did awful business on PPV, the worst of the Network era. So the "Well we gotta make it worth Brock's payday" theory doesn't make much sense, because cena/Lesnar part Whatever won't be worth his payday.

      Anyway, they should totally use Cesaro or Sheamus.

      ReplyDelete
    5. Sheamus and Cesaro are not on his level because of how WWE presents them.

      They could do a Brock/Sheamus match where nobody would buy into Sheamus having a chance and have him shock the world by winning...

      For one you build a star and for two you set up two more matches....

      ReplyDelete
    6. Worst_in_the_WorldOctober 31, 2014 at 1:20 PM

      To reiterate:
      Battleground 2014, headlined by a 4-way match featuring KANE, drew 100k PPV buys when the subscriber count was at 700k.
      Night of Champions, headlined by a Cena/Lesnar rematch, drew 48k buys with a subscriber count of 731k.

      So with an additional 31k Network subscribers they sold 52k less traditional PPVs. Which is to say that Lesnar/Cena rematch was bigtime financially unsuccessful, so what's the point of doing it again?

      ReplyDelete
    7. Worst_in_the_WorldOctober 31, 2014 at 1:24 PM

      Right. Or even if they just spend 2 months focusing on Sheamus and building him up as a supreme tough guy (which for him wouldn't take a lot of work) and then he has a WAR with Brock and loses, he still leaves that match as a much more bankable star.
      Cesaro too--- he's had much less of a push than SHeamus over the years, but physically teh fans would buy into him. He has a war with Brock, loses, but now he's a bankable main event level guy.


      You know, those things that WWE desperately needs more of to sell merch, headline house shows, draw higher TV ratings, sell PPVs and do other things that make money for the company long term. Not sure how any of that would be a waste of anyone's time, especially when the supposedly "sure thing" matchup between Cena & Lesnar was a financial bomb in September.

      ReplyDelete
    8. Brock vs Hogan ONE MORE TIME!

      ReplyDelete
    9. They need to get their asses in gear and PUT some new people on his level because he can't just rematch John Cena and Big Show over and over.

      ReplyDelete
    10. Worst_in_the_WorldOctober 31, 2014 at 1:26 PM

      Especially when those matchups aren't even drawing well.

      ReplyDelete
    11. MaffewOfBotchamaniaOctober 31, 2014 at 1:29 PM

      I like Brock vs. Cena.

      Cena being booked as the underdog character actually works against SNK Boss Brock and their matches have all been fun so far.

      Just me though.

      ReplyDelete
    12. In regard to "rerunning it on a bigger show"...If anything though you could argue NoC was more important than the Rumble as far as the match being a draw. The Rumble match is more likely to carry the show than anything on the NoC undercard. How often is the title match the draw of the RR?

      ReplyDelete
    13. TseugThatsGuestSpeltBackwardsOctober 31, 2014 at 1:34 PM

      So Kane is the draw, eh?


      Lesnar vs Kane, book it now!!!

      ReplyDelete
    14. Virgil's Gimmick TableOctober 31, 2014 at 1:35 PM

      This whole company is on a fast track to nowhere just because they don't understand how to book wrestling anymore.

      ReplyDelete
    15. Worst_in_the_WorldOctober 31, 2014 at 1:36 PM

      Hahaha fuck it why not

      ReplyDelete
    16. Sheamus could totally swoop into that spot. For a guy who isn't showcased as a main eventer, he's pretty well-protected. I don't even remember the last time he jobbed.

      ReplyDelete
    17. I'd rather watch Brock Lesnar wrestle a potato than John Cena again.

      ReplyDelete
    18. Brock Lesnar Vs John Cena at Night Of Champions = 48,000 Buys worldwide.


      Says it all really.

      ReplyDelete
    19. **This whole company is on a FAST LANE to nowhere just because they don't understand how to book wrestling anymore.



      FTFY

      ReplyDelete
    20. "By gawd, The Potato is STARCHIN' UP on Lesnar!!!"

      ReplyDelete
    21. Speed Force!!!

      ReplyDelete
    22. Ziggler would be a feasible match. He's won I think all of his PPV matches this year and is a secondary title holder. The bumps he could take in the ass kicking would get it over and he could have something echoing the Brock Lesnar vs. CM Punk match which is the only time I really thought Brock delivered everything they pay him for.

      ReplyDelete
    23. This is not a company that should be publicly traded. If Dell can go back to being private, so can this.

      ReplyDelete
    24. We might as well forget about this being a wrestling company any longer. It is, in absolutely no respects, the same thing as what we watched when were kids. That is way way way long gone and it's never coming back, at least with this company.
      For whatever reason they are embarrassed to be considered 'wrestling' and they are just on to telling stories and those stories don't have the same arch that your traditional 1950s-1980s wrestling did.

      ReplyDelete
    25. They have never grown past their IPO or even got back up to IPO levels. No idea why they are publicly traded. Even JBL said it made no sense. Company with no debt, tons of capital, just absolutely zero reason to be a publicly traded stock.

      ReplyDelete
    26. Creatively speaking, going public may be the worst thing that ever happened to this company.

      ReplyDelete
    27. I have 0.0000000% interest in watching any type of Big Show match. And that's probably a few 0's short at that.

      ReplyDelete
    28. They were a publicly traded company during up periods. It still makes no sense.

      ReplyDelete
    29. I like Big Show matches because he's big.

      ReplyDelete
    30. Best argument against anybody who is trying to say WWE isn't completely stale or played.

      Brock Lesnar wrestled The Big Show in a short match at ROYAL RUMBLE 2003. They redid it at ROYAL RUMBLE 2014.

      I don't foresee the UFC doing Liddell vs. Ortiz 3 in December 2017.

      ReplyDelete
    31. But you really need to see him in person to appreciate it.

      ReplyDelete
    32. Dana happily throws his over the hill vets to the wolves in exchange for a bigger buy rate.


      If he could book Shamrock vs Liddell tomorrow i bet he'd consider it.

      ReplyDelete
    33. Worst_in_the_WorldOctober 31, 2014 at 1:44 PM

      I love Zigs but that's a rough one. A guy like Cesaro, even with a lackluster push, comes off as a believable physical threat to Brock.

      I'm not saying that you can't sell a small guy as a threat to brock, but it'd have to be a guy like Bryan or Punk who already has been presented as a world class fighter and bad-ass for awhile.. Ziggler absolutely has been presented as nowhere near that. Hell, he lost in Sept on PPV to the Miz.


      Would be rough to get Ziggler ready in a month or two.

      ReplyDelete
    34. Brock jobs to El Torito.

      Wrestling business saved.

      ReplyDelete
    35. The UFC actually goes perversely in the opposite direction of the WWE where they completely smear anybody over 35 in the press and totally burn their bridges in the relationship with them. Now a huge pack of that crew like Royce Gracie, Randy Couture, Tito Ortiz, etc... are involved in Bellator.

      Honestly Bellator did a nifty little buyrate for a show that lost its main event something like three days before the show. MMA is gearing up for a mid 90s WCW vs. WWF type showdown. The WWE is just imploding due to how inept they are.

      ReplyDelete
    36. I saw him live and I have to admit....I was more impressed by Torrie Wilson's tits in person than the Big Show.

      ReplyDelete
    37. Best "Big Show in person" moment was when I saw a house show in February 2005 and people were leaving early to beat the traffic during the intros of the JBL vs. Big Show main event.

      ReplyDelete
    38. The only performer I care less about is Corporate Kane.

      ReplyDelete
    39. Ziggler has a title match and has had some more credible wins lately. If they let anybody out of the 50/50 spiral for longer than a month they'd have title challengers on the reg.


      With no Punk and no Bryan, honestly, Ziggler is your next best thing.

      ReplyDelete
    40. HIS HANDS ARE LIKE FRYING PANS!

      ReplyDelete
    41. Worst_in_the_WorldOctober 31, 2014 at 1:49 PM

      Right, he'll lose on a interference/roll-up on occasion like with Miz, but then always cleanly destroy the heel multiple times afterwards. Sheamus almost never loses a match in which the other guy just straight beats him or is presented as "better than Sheamus." He could easily be presented as a Brock challenger.

      ReplyDelete
    42. LIKE TYPEWRITERS

      ReplyDelete
    43. I wouldn't have minded Brock vs Cena again if they had booked it at Survivor Series and let Orton get the title shot at the Rumble, but as it's looking now, he never even gets to wrestle a non-Cena opponent before dropping the title. And it's also looking like we're not gonna get to see Brock inside the chamber.

      ReplyDelete
    44. More of Vince's desire to be accepted as mainstream.

      ReplyDelete
    45. Brock Lesnar vs. Rockstar Spud

      ReplyDelete
    46. You could add a billion zeroes and it's the same as one.

      ReplyDelete
    47. By messing with the most valuable thing he owns in the world and his family's birthright for generations. Dude should have sprung for a company health plan that let him see a psychologist.

      ReplyDelete
    48. They haven't had an up period that got anywhere close to the Hogan or Attitude era.

      ReplyDelete
    49. Yep. Vince so desperately wants to be accepted and seen as legitimate.

      ReplyDelete
    50. Because of the mainstream awareness I'd say you can't build Cesaro or Sheamus up to that level quickly.

      We're thinking of it as two-tiered system where we can slide anybody up and most of the time that's correct.

      With Brock though you can't establish somebody against just like you can't establish somebody against The Rock. You need somebody from that middle tier of made main eventers who are near household name status. That's pretty much only Orton, Punk and Bryan the last few years. You could use Brock to put somebody on that level over the top, but anybody lower even hanging with Brock would cheapen him.

      ReplyDelete
    51. Their IPO was in 1999. They were huge for years after it.

      ReplyDelete
    52. That's WWE's fault. They always hype just seeing him in person. They never say one needs to watch him wrestle in person too.

      The fans saw him live and thought that's all they needed to see.

      ReplyDelete
    53. I started reading Jericho's book last night and wound up tearing through about 300 pages. Amazing read. In the first few pages he admits his 2007 return was a flop because he was rusty, his promo was off, and his act was stale. Very few wrestlers that are on Jericho's level will ever admit their act was stale.

      ReplyDelete
    54. The idea of only wanting to use Brock against big stars to have super matches absolutely makes sense to me. How the WWE has gotten to the point where they only have ONE GUY who can fill the role of big star to fight Brock makes much less sense. Punk is gone, Bryan is hurt, that is big, but Punk has been gone for 8 months and Bryan for 6. They so could have made a new star in that time alone, not to mention anytime over the last 10 years too.

      ReplyDelete
    55. That tactic of telling customers they were stupid for spending their money worked out well.

      ReplyDelete
    56. It definitely worked. They convinced them to stop paying $60 for PPV.

      ReplyDelete
    57. Its funny, their actual PPV buys have taken a nose dive and none of these people signed up for the network either...yikes!

      ReplyDelete
    58. Virgil's Gimmick TableOctober 31, 2014 at 1:56 PM

      It's a company the hates what they consider to be "marks". They hate their own customers. It's McMahon's universe and he hates his own subjects.

      ReplyDelete
    59. Did they buy any Diet Mountain Dew though?

      ReplyDelete
    60. Maybe they were offended at being insulted by the company they paid $60 to see. To be fair, WWE is right in that those people were making a dumb move but you don't say that to them--on PPV no less.

      ReplyDelete
    61. Remember how the WWE attitude about Cesaro post mania was "Hey lets cool him off because we can make him a big star anytime we want"
      They currently have ONE GUY they trust at the box office to work a match with Lesnar...

      ReplyDelete
    62. Pretty soon they will have Cole telling people during RAW they are stupid for not just waiting for the 90 minute HULU cut.

      ReplyDelete
    63. If they can get him hot at any time I suggest they pop that sumbitch in the microwave right fast.

      ReplyDelete
    64. Ambrose could tie Brocks shoe laces together and start a big feud too.

      ReplyDelete
    65. Yep lol. WWE really dropped the ball with this. A lot of these people probably want to get the network, but there's a huge amount of people that aren't going to put any technological effort besides turning their TV on. If you hit a button incorrectly, it might blow up!

      ReplyDelete
    66. YankeesHoganTripleHFanOctober 31, 2014 at 2:04 PM

      I have some Rolo that they gave out at the office today. Remember when Scott was obsessed with Rolo?

      ReplyDelete
    67. Aren't September PPVs notorious for doing horrible buyrates?

      ReplyDelete
    68. Yesterday we were talking about the buy rates of 2013 B shows and July one did 25k more than the September one that had Bryan vs Orton has the main event.

      ReplyDelete
    69. Fall 1999-Mid 2002 isn't exactly a long time.

      ReplyDelete
    70. They could toss HHH in there...

      ReplyDelete
    71. They've had six months since Bryan was gone, and 8 month since Punk was gone to make new stars, and we've gotten a Shield push but its been pretty half hearted. They could have made Sheamus a monster in six months, or really any fucking guy on the roster they wanted.

      ReplyDelete
    72. Worst_in_the_WorldOctober 31, 2014 at 2:09 PM

      If that's the bar for facing Brock Lesnar, how the hell is Roman reigns even an option? Someone like Sheamus is a way bigger known quantity than Roman, not even close. He's been on TV for years wrestling against main eventers and held world titles. Way more wrestling fans
      know who Sheamus is. Roman might be pegged as a bigger star going forward, but he's absolutely not even close to one right now, or even if he wins the Rumble in January.

      So if wrestling Sheamus on PPV would cheapen Brock's brand, how much of a joke match is Brock vs Roman Reigns? Christ, that probably ends up being Roman's second ever singles match on PPV.

      ReplyDelete
    73. When Randy Orton is the ace in the hole for a potentially fresh matchup I really don't even know what to say.

      ReplyDelete
    74. YankeesHoganTripleHFanOctober 31, 2014 at 2:10 PM

      Ha ha, "Ace." I get it

      ReplyDelete
    75. Yea, wasn't Battlerground 2013 one of the top 3 worst PPV buyrates of all time?

      ReplyDelete
    76. Worst_in_the_WorldOctober 31, 2014 at 2:11 PM

      Exactly. Personally I hate Sheamus as a face but at least just fucking go with somebody. There's no reason why Sheamus couldn't be a legit option to face Brock by now. Cena being the only feasible option is insane and was so preventable.

      ReplyDelete
    77. It did terrible, but oddly enough last year Battleground was in October, and the July B show ppv was MITB (which was the june show this year, for a company so obsessed with branding I don't know why they jack around the PPV titles so much)

      ReplyDelete
    78. Too busy jobbing him 2 straight falls on ppv.

      ReplyDelete
    79. Unbelievable that they still have that fucking match penciled in for mania. I'd still rather see Lesnar vs Orton or Sheamus or I guess even Cena again (or even Dean the Menace).

      ReplyDelete
    80. YankeesHoganTripleHFanOctober 31, 2014 at 2:18 PM

      Not to change the subject but I have an exclusive preview of the Undertaker working with the kids at the performance center.

      "Not shaking everyone's hand? That's a Bradshaw showerin. Disrespecting the main eventers? That's a Bradshaw showerin. Showering in the dressing room showers? Oh you better believe that's a Bradshaw showerin."

      ReplyDelete
    81. I'd actually say the main purpose was to change the subject. But it was funny

      ReplyDelete
    82. Were they really going to make Batista the world champion last year just to have him be gone by June?

      ReplyDelete
    83. I remember him mentioning vomiting one up once, but just that one time. Were there more Rolo references?

      ReplyDelete
    84. YankeesHoganTripleHFanOctober 31, 2014 at 2:25 PM

      Eh two or so

      ReplyDelete
    85. And, as many have pointed out, WWE gets half that $50 from the PPV buyer, so that's $25 they'd get instead of the $10 Network sub. Yeah yeah, maybe that subscriber sticks around for more than a month, etc... but it's still bad practice to belittle customers willing to not only give you money, but more than double the amount of the alternative they are pushing.

      ReplyDelete
    86. October isn't so hot either.

      ReplyDelete
    87. I used to have a boss that loved to say that one definition of insantiy is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. She said it so much I really hated that quote. But when it comes to WWE it's absolutely true.

      ReplyDelete
    88. Seriously, if they aren't building Brock up for WrestleMania to put over a star then why did they even put the title on him? And why aren't they taking it back off him? Just have the Authority strip him of it, that way they can say he never lost it, yet have the belt back in circulation. The stupid of the company's mindset right now boggles the mind. In hindsight Cena never should gave won it at MitB to even lose it to Lesnar.

      ReplyDelete
    89. Good grief. If you can't trust Orton against Lesnar then just admit that you've wasted 12 years and millions of dollars on trying to make him the 1B to Cena's 1A and go a different direction.

      ReplyDelete
    90. Am I alone in thinking Brock vs Ziggler could be lots of fun?

      ReplyDelete
    91. That one is a real pisser, because an angle where Cesaro gets pissed that Heyman focuses all his energy on Lesnar was RIGHT THERE. And Cesaro could probably toss Brock around the ring like he were Spike Dudley.

      ReplyDelete
    92. I want to see another Brock Vs Smaller Guy match. The Punk match was his best since the return IMO.

      ReplyDelete
    93. YankeesHoganTripleHFanOctober 31, 2014 at 2:40 PM

      Sure. Fun in a Ray Rice vs his girlfriend sort of way

      ReplyDelete
    94. It's getting really tiresome trying to suss out the logic behind all of this stupidity. I still say the only possible answer is that they are intentionally trying to tank the company's stock so they can buy it back and go back to being private. Unless they really are just this incompetent.

      ReplyDelete
    95. I'm not saying Ziggler wins. That'd be foolish. But Ziggler getting to be one of the very few to face Lesnar would make him a bigger star

      ReplyDelete
    96. Dana showed a very human side when he told Chuck to retire. They are friends, and Dana didn't want to see him take more brain damage, even though he could easily have made more money off of him.

      ReplyDelete
    97. Worst_in_the_WorldOctober 31, 2014 at 2:43 PM

      I'm betting Orton is being saved as their backup plan for Mania if Roman comes back and immediately flops.

      ReplyDelete
    98. Worst_in_the_WorldOctober 31, 2014 at 2:45 PM

      Nah Dean the Menace aka The Lunatic Foodie probably has a puppet show match at Mania against Santino's cobra sock.

      ReplyDelete
    99. YankeesHoganTripleHFanOctober 31, 2014 at 2:51 PM

      You know...for a group that claims to hate John Cena you all sure obsess aboout him a lot. Kind of like how unpopular middle school girls obsess over the popular ones.

      .

      ReplyDelete
    100. Theberzerker! HUSS!October 31, 2014 at 2:54 PM

      Yeah, at the time I was psyched to see him back, the SAVE.US bit was masterful, and wondered what the hell went wrong. Then you listen to his promos against Orton...yikes. Turning heel in '08 was the best move he could have done.

      ReplyDelete
    101. Worst_in_the_WorldOctober 31, 2014 at 2:55 PM

      Brock/Cena at Summerslam did pretty good business behind a build of "Brock Lesnar's gonna fucking kill this dude and make him swim in his own blood and shit and vomit."
      Then the rematch was sold as Cena's redemption story, the one in which Cena gets his mojo back and rises above and gets his revenge.

      And guess what? The Cena redemption story fucking bombed. And there lies WWE's big John Cena problem, which is that in 2014/15 there's much less interest in seeing John Cena redemption/revenge/overcomes-odds stories. Which is why additional rematches here are a waste and a bad business decision, because the fanbase isn't clamoring for stories-- long term or not--- centered around babyface John Cena as the hero protagonist. At least not at a blockbuster level, not even close.

      Fans already got what they wanted to pay for out of Cena vs Lesnar, which was the Summerslam match. NoC showed that the fanbase is way less interested in seeing Cena get his revenge.

      ReplyDelete
    102. That sounds about right.

      ReplyDelete
    103. I like that his heel turn was a slow-burn also. He didn't just jump Shawn Michaels one week, he spoke honestly about how he think Shawn's a cheater and a bullshit artist, until after like 2 months, he snapped and put Shawn's face through the ludicrously expensive Jeri-Tron 5000

      ReplyDelete
    104. "You all" eh?

      I like Randy Orton. Since I'm a part of this blog your logic indicates that "you all" like Randy Orton too.

      I KNEW IT! You are all Viper fans at heart!

      ReplyDelete
    105. Yeah, the Cena redemption story has been played out so many freaking times, but I don't think they're capable of thinking up anything else. The only two angles they know how to run are "guy tries to redeem himself" and "authority figure hates babyface."

      ReplyDelete
    106. Theberzerker! HUSS!October 31, 2014 at 2:58 PM

      Very good point. It's almost as if SOMEHOW they knew what was coming (redemption) and had no interest in seeing it. Hmmmmmmmmmm...

      ReplyDelete
    107. I don't hate Cena, but I think he's the embodiment of "diminishing returns" at this point.

      ReplyDelete
    108. I'm a huge Orton fan but I have no interest in seeing him in a main event role anymore. I would honestly rather see him in the mid card/upper card having good matches with everyone rather than main eventing and wrestling John Cena.

      The best stretch of Orton's career came from 2010-2012(during which time he wrestled Cena 0 times) and he got to wrestle a diverse number of opponents and bounced from RAW main, to SmackDown main to putting over Henry and feuding with Barrett and Rhodes. That's what I want to see as an Orton fan. Let him have his good match, put some people over, and work some programs with some different people.

      ReplyDelete
    109. Worst_in_the_WorldOctober 31, 2014 at 3:01 PM

      You figure Orton's gonna go over Rollins soon, and then if Roman comes back and doesn't get over immediately you just have Orton win the Rumble. Probably a reason why they didn't do Orton/Brock now.

      ReplyDelete
    110. ugh, what does Orton going over Rollins even accomplish? If the story is that The Authority has anointed Rollins, then Orton should get screwed and Rollins should go over, thus proving their own point.

      ReplyDelete
    111. Worst_in_the_WorldOctober 31, 2014 at 3:05 PM

      And hero redeeming himself is fine, but John cena's been the hero for 10 years now during the most overexposed era for pro wrestling. He's done everything and beaten everyone a million times over. You can't expect the fanbase to go crazy for that story anymore when it comes to Cena.

      ReplyDelete
    112. Precisely why I didn't think they'd book Brock to kill Cena right away. Cool, he did that, we saw something different, Cena got killed to please the hardcores. Now what....

      ReplyDelete
    113. Not to mention it all happened within one month and was just stupid and not intriguing at all.

      ReplyDelete
    114. Co-signed. I wouldn't have a problem with him if they could think of a new story for him ever.

      ReplyDelete
    115. I don't think most here hate Cena. I'm actually a fan of most of his work. It's the booking that sucks.

      ReplyDelete
    116. Unless, as someone proposed, Brock himself has a small list of people he is willing to work with and Orton isn't on that list.

      ReplyDelete
    117. I had a Kickstart during HIAC and wasn't even thinking about the fact that it was their sponsor. I didn't know whether to feel guilty or freaked out because they're playing some weird mind tricks on me.

      ReplyDelete
    118. Worst_in_the_WorldOctober 31, 2014 at 3:11 PM

      The Now what, in WWE's mind, was "don't you wanna see John Cena rebuild and get revenge and win the WWE title again?" And the answer from fans was no, not really.

      ReplyDelete
    119. He talks about that in his book too.

      ReplyDelete
    120. maybe we can poison him like in Heathers?

      ReplyDelete
    121. The more interesting thing to me was seeing him in person, saying "well, yeah, he's pretty big," then watching it back on TV and seeing how they position the cameras to make him look bigger.

      ReplyDelete
    122. the question becomes can Cena sell his shirts to the kiddies while being a special attraction rather than the focal point? I think he can, which is why it's time to shunt him off to the side and let the next generation get a shot.

      ReplyDelete
    123. Oh how SILLY. He's the main pushed guy on WWE. It's not like if we ignore him he'll go away. He's inescapable. He is the WWE. Forgive us if we mention him while discussing the only real wrestling company in the US.

      ReplyDelete
    124. Worst_in_the_WorldOctober 31, 2014 at 3:16 PM

      Rollins isn't facing Brock at Mania, so it's logical to assume he's there to put over whichever babyface actually is. Stands to reason that Rollins puts over cena sometime before the Rumble, and is used as the foil to put over Roman or Orton too. It's why Rollins has been so protected the last few months, to put over the main event babyfaces. (Not comedy midcarders like Ambrose.)

      ReplyDelete
    125. Jericho just gets good storytelling. That's why I assume he had something better planned for the Wyatt feud that Vince must have vetoed

      ReplyDelete
    126. Plus, it's not like it's going to affect his ability to cure cancer. He'll still be able to do that.

      ReplyDelete
    127. I think a 4way featuring The Shield and Lesnar is feasible.

      ReplyDelete
    128. They thought it'd be a huge media tie-in with Guardians. There was *some* logic to it, even if it was mistaken.

      ReplyDelete
    129. Worst_in_the_WorldOctober 31, 2014 at 3:19 PM

      So if Roman wins the title from Brock at Mania in April, what becomes of Rollins' briefcase? He only has until July to cash in. Does he cash in soon after and they start Roman's "He's the next Cena" era with a super short less than 3-month title reign?

      ReplyDelete
    130. Is the plural of rolo really rolo? It must be rolos.

      ReplyDelete
    131. I hate to sound like a broken record but in his book Jericho goes over many instances where an idea he pitched was turned down by Vince and he'd have to give impassioned pleas for his ideas. Sometimes they would work, other times not.

      It wouldn't surprise me if Jericho had some plans for the Wyatt feud that either Vince vetoed and Jericho was unable to make Vince reconsider or just didn't care enough to try.

      ReplyDelete
    132. And I'm surprised there isn't more UFC talk on here considering how woeful WWE has been. I know UFC has it's serious issues as well right now, but they delivered an absolutely killer main event the day before WWE introduced ghostssss.

      ReplyDelete
    133. Depends on how you look at it. Brock is a monster who was too much for Cena and Undertaker. But The Shield is the one force more powerful. In the match they team up on Lesnar taking him out of the match, after say 15 minutes, then have Reigns go over, and it builds a huge Reigns vs Lesnar match at SummerSlam.

      ReplyDelete
    134. I hate him. The only good thing about him to me is what he does for charity.

      ReplyDelete
    135. Bellator are going to fuck shit up next year. They are going to deliver STACKED shows and take away business from the UFC. I am thinking several MAJOR stars are coming over. I wouldn't disbelief Meltzer.

      I also wouldn't mind you PMing me that article since I don't have an Observer sub anymore...

      ReplyDelete
    136. Bellator and UFC's Saturday Night Wars of the mid 2010s will be competitive with the original MNWs.

      ReplyDelete
    137. Or people just weren't interested in Brock (or, more precisely, the story they told with Brock, starting with him being Plan C or whatever). The monthly 12.99 plan was available for a week or so before Summerslam and for NoC: 22,000 people TOTAL in those 6 weeks. I didn't see if the report showed how many new people specifically signed up in the time between Brock being announced as #1 contender and, say, the week after Summerslam; whatever it was, it wasn't enough to increase subs to combat the "churn."

      The argument in favor of putting the title on Brock is that HE was the money draw, regardless of the opponent. That's why people would pay to see him face tomato cans (in /kayfabe terms) like Cesaro or Big Show. But they didn't pay to see him against the face of the WWE for the past decade: how on earth would the PPV have done with say, Lesnar-Big Show and Cena completely off, recovering from his injuries? The argument was that you didn't need the champ on TV every week, and that matches in which he defended the title (against anyone) would be "big events." But, to borrow from Bryan Alvarez, virtually NO BUYS.

      ReplyDelete
    138. Aldo vs. Mendes was a grudge match that delivered. That was a great fight that saved what was, and let's be honest, an absolute DOGSHIT show up to that point. Both guys laid it all on the line and Mendes did way better than I thought he would.

      I have no idea why there isn't more UFC chat on here since they have been the premiere wrestling org in the world since 2006 and did way better at delivering good shows with an injury decimated roster in 2014 than the WWE did with an injury decimated roster.

      ReplyDelete
    139. If Reigns/Bryan aren't ready, they could use it to turn Rollins (or even Brock) face.

      ReplyDelete
    140. I've long assumed the plan is he cashes in on Reigns and a feud is born.

      ReplyDelete
    141. I'm shocked anyone else here has watched Heathers

      ReplyDelete
    142. I've seen Heathers twice, thank you very much

      ReplyDelete
    143. Reading Jericho's new book really showed me how concerned with sponsors/investors Vince has become. Jericho alone was involved in at least three, off the top of my head, classic wrestling heel moments that Vince, or someone, threw a fit about because of how they might react to it.

      ReplyDelete
    144. Are we sure there is no way to get Punk to come back? Punk v Lesnar may not draw Avenger numbers but wouldn't the fanbase lose their sh*t over that? Me thinks the fans have to get excited before the general puhlic will, if you wheel

      ReplyDelete
    145. Gunther the Nasty LoserOctober 31, 2014 at 3:50 PM

      Many of us are children of the 80's

      ReplyDelete
    146. I've been reading that too. Vince definitely will not allow blood anytime soon. He is intensely anti-blood.

      ReplyDelete
    147. Hey, the article's here. It wasn't on the Observer site: http://www.mmafighting.com/2014/10/18/6989457/coker-says-changing-coming-to-bellator-in-2015

      ReplyDelete
    148. Yeah, it wasn't a great show. Seeing Phil Davis dominate was interesting if not particularly entertaining. I do find it hard to get to into the shows that are so laden with Brazillian fighters.

      ReplyDelete
    149. How long can this go on though? The needs of the sponsors are in such conflict with the wishes of the hardcore fans that this can't be sustainable forever.

      ReplyDelete
    150. $100,000 fine to Batista and he was barely bleeding.


      Although the Shawn blade job that led to the anti-blood policy was sick.

      ReplyDelete
    151. That's the thing. It's similar to how half the crowd hates Cena. Eventually building the company around a guy half the audience can't stand is going to cause some problems.


      Maybe the Network not becoming the hit they expected it to be will be what causes them to change. Vince fought against the Attitude Era to until he had no choice.

      ReplyDelete
    152. It was. I knew it was the last allowed blade job but I never knew that it actually led to the no blood policy. I just figured it happened before the policy.

      The Flair thing was kinda Jericho's fault. If he hadn't targeted the cut he probably wouldn't have been fined. But the blood made that segment. So I'm sure it was worth the 15K to Jericho.

      Hearing that Batista was fined 100K leads me to believe that Triple H might have been legitimately fined for his chair shot to Taker at WM27.

      ReplyDelete
    153. He really did fight against it at first. There was a period in 95/96 where he was really criticising WCW for having blood and stuff, wasn't there? Six months later Brian Pillman had a fucking GUN in his hand.

      ReplyDelete
    154. Every chapter about his Shawn rivalry was insanely great. The SummerSlam deal in particular.

      ReplyDelete
    155. At a 2005 indy show in South Texas i yelled, "Where's Miss Elizabeth?", at Lex Luger. He gave me a mean look but just ignored me after that (even though i started a steroids chant that caught on with the crowd)..Everyone around me was like holy shit i cant believe you said that...LMAO good times...

      ReplyDelete
    156. I feel like the general public was dying to see another Big Show vs Brock match but the WWE really dropped the ball with Big Show..

      ReplyDelete
    157. There was a stat that I missed in the actual release, but Meltzer mentioned on his site yesterday: Of the 200-whatever-thousand that signed up last quarter, only 21,000 opted for the $12.99 no commitment rate. I don't know if that option was available for all or even most of that quarter, but it does seem to contradict the notion of the 6 month commitment being a major obstacle.

      ReplyDelete
    158. but the WWE really dropped the ball with Big Show..
      This could apply to almost every year he's been employed

      ReplyDelete
    159. I agree...the guy shouldve had a 4 year reign as World Champion because he is actually a believable World Champion unlike those midgets Punk and Bryan

      ReplyDelete
    160. I'm sure the groundwork is being laid in rebuilding the relationship with PPV providers by... uh... giving away Survivor Series for free... uh-oh.

      ReplyDelete
    161. *sigh* WWE brought Big Show in as the future of the business and spent the first year making him look like a joke. They've never been able to get him back to that initial level despite every attempt.
      Punk and Bryan were not brought in to the future of anything. They worked hard to get the fans and Vince to accept them in that role. Their trajectory has nothing to do with Big Show's.

      ReplyDelete
    162. You're all class.

      ReplyDelete
    163. But Seth Rollins is totally qu€€r, right?

      ReplyDelete
    164. there was a point in late 95/early 96 where it seemed WWF was toying with edgier contact, and they pulled away completely after WM12 until about Fall 96 with ECW, and Austin/Pillman

      ReplyDelete
    165. Just so you know, Lex was working heel

      ReplyDelete
    166. If I recall correctly, he was iffy about letting Diesel put Shawn through the table in their IYH match.

      ReplyDelete
    167. I felt nervous for Jericho reading about him punching Shawn's wife - like I'm reading it scared how Shawn's going to react.

      ReplyDelete
    168. I think Jericho used an MMA type move to ground Shawn and keep pounding him in the match? The ref stopped it because Shawn couldn't defend himself and was bleeding buckets?

      ReplyDelete
    169. This company stinks to high heaven.

      ReplyDelete
    170. But he has big hands dammit!

      ReplyDelete
    171. They were expecting like a half million and got 28,000 so, yes, coming in below projections is bad. Also, forgetting the net total after new subscribers, they basically lost half their previous total subscribers. That is near catastrophic. Next quarter they don't have the global rollout to bump up the numbers (just the UK). Realistically it should take a few quarters to figure out the turnover rate, but WWE keeps changing things (dropping the commitment, giving away a free month). With this traditionally being WWE's worst time of the year, the numbers next quarter are going to be abysmal.

      ReplyDelete
    172. Don't forget too that they've hacked & slashed to the bone just so the break-even point for the Network would be around a million subs or 800,000 or whatever it was, and to show a modest loss overall for the year. They came up short when they announced the first number at WrestleMania time, way short at the next investor call, and short again with the new lowered target. You can't spin those numbers.

      ReplyDelete
    173. Because it's free! Or something.

      ReplyDelete
    174. I hate the stock market. Every stock I've ever followed goes down when there's good news, up when you aren't looking. There's some kind of reverse Heisenberg Effect going on.

      ReplyDelete
    175. FRYING PAN HANDS!!!

      ReplyDelete
    176. Or, you know, Vince having Trish Stratus bark like a dog...

      ReplyDelete
    177. You have to see them in person

      ReplyDelete
    178. It isn't even the friggin' hardcores at this point, which is what pisses me off.


      When you have entire arenas screaming for Bryan and Cesaro and Zayn, and you give them Cena and Brock and Orton, it's no longer "only the Interwebz care about work rate!"


      It seems they go to extreme lengths to make sure their fans aren't happy. It's astounding.

      ReplyDelete
    179. The blonde dye job doesn't do him any favors in that department

      ReplyDelete
    180. I unsubscribed, too, in September. After Wrestlemania, I watched maybe 1/2 of Summerslam... when people can't be bothered to watch something they already paid for, and can watch AT ANY TIME, you have an issue with your product.

      ReplyDelete
    181. Shame as he does a great blade job.

      ReplyDelete
    182. I personally cannot wait for a company that has provided me with hundreds of hours of entertainment, timeless memories, and pretty much the most easily available source of pro wrestling in North America (and you know how much I love pro wrestling!) To fail and die. Leaving me with...TNA?

      ReplyDelete
    183. Three times...I also had an unhealthy obsession with Winona Ryder for years.

      ReplyDelete
    184. Just imagine if WWE didn't offer the PPVs on the Network.

      They would still have the PPV market (that they destroy and/or devalue immensely)
      They would have up to 700k subscribers for the Network (because some people will pay for it)

      Oh well. Bad business decisions happen all the time.

      ReplyDelete
    185. With 24 hours to reflect, them giving November away for free, dropping the 6 month commitment, makes total sense. WWE is doing everything they can (aside from, you know, improving the product) to boost the subscriber total for the next quarter. That's it. They know this is the ass-end of the year for them, and are probably facing a net total of under 500,000 subscribers come January. They are gonna do everything they can--longterm health of the Network & company be damned--to boost that number. I think it's that simple.

      ReplyDelete
    186. Virgil's Gimmick TableOctober 31, 2014 at 5:21 PM

      What an asshole.

      ReplyDelete