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Flash v. Gotham?

I know a bunch of people were hyped about Gotham, but it doesn't seem to be setting the world on fire thus far.  On the other hand, I finally watched the pilot for The Flash on Hulu last night, and WOW.  Finally a TV show that really nails the tone and spirit of the comics!  I've heard Arrow similarly "gets it" but ain't nobody got time for that.  I actually really liked Grant Gustin as Barry Allen, as he's likable without being a dork, and Tom Cavanaugh as the guy who is clearly going to be revealed as you-know-who (trying to keep it non-spoilery for those who haven't read the comics) was a nice little build.  Having the douchebag detective be named "Eddie Thawne" just seems it's leading to something, though.  I'm already intrigued!  I like that!  As always, I HATE Geoff Johns' mommy-issues version of Barry that has seemingly permeated the mythology for good now.  And Cisco Ramon now being part of the TV universe got a big pop from me, although again I won't spoil it if you don't know where that's going.  What's really great about Flash is that he has a wide variety of TV-friendly rogues who all have history with each other and easily explained powers (Boomerang, Heat Wave, Mirror Master, Captain Cold, Abra Kadabra, Gorilla Grodd).  

Big thumbs up so far!

Comments

  1. davidbonzaisaldanamontgomeryOctober 14, 2014 at 4:18 PM

    Flash is awesome, and I'm still surprised they're not pairing it up with way-awesome "Arrow" on the same night for a kickass superhero twinbill, especially since they're in the same universe. The CW being home to two quality superhero shows -- both of which let them actually be superheroes -- is a surprise on the level of 2011 Mark Henry.

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  2. I blew through Arrow season 2 on Netflix last weekend and good lord it's awesome. Flash is great too - the tone is absolutely perfect. I'm still not sold on Gotham though. It's fun to watch Jada Pinkett Smith chew up the scenery like an Adam West villain but the show itself is pretty uneven. And Young Bruce is terrible.

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  3. Been more impressed with Gotham than Flash. Neither are partially great but Gotham has me intrigued and they have an awesome villian already in the future Penguin. The Flash seems like smallville to me, very teenage orientated and the acting is dreadful, wooden is the best way to describe it.

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  4. Flash had the nice benefit of having three hours to play with the lead character as well in Arrow season 2. And they did it while Arrow was in an extremely good stride and story arc. So that helped. If they play off Flash as Superman to Arrow's Batman, I think I'm going to like it a lot. Arrow took a while to get going but about midway through the first season they figured things out. Flash seems like it might have the benefit of the show runners not making the early Arrow mistakes. So great! I'm stoked.


    Gotham...I...eh. One inherent problem with it is that they have someone like the Penguin. Great actor, super creepy character on the show. But what is going to come of him? We know that he's still going to be around in 18 years. So what's Gordon doing? Setting it in the past was a mistake IMO if the plan is to have all of these characters show up THIS quickly. I don't mind Nigma working for the cops, but why is he telling riddles already? I'll give it another few chances but then I'm done the way I dropped SHIELD.


    And unlike the way I can't quit the WWE.

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  5. davidbonzaisaldanamontgomeryOctober 14, 2014 at 4:28 PM

    I mentioned this the other day, but Gotham needs to take a cue from Arrow and not bop their audience over the head with "FUTURE [villain]" stuff, like renaming the Poison Ivy character "Ivy", as if people wouldn't pick up on it. In the pilot for Arrow, you get implicit but not explicit references to possible future Speedy, Merlin, and Black Canary but a) don't go out of their way to make sure all the newcomers understand the references immediately and b) use previous knowledge of the fans to subvert who's actually who in the series, which is a nice touch. But basically, I like that Arrow wasn't like "Tommy Merlyn, your family is so awesome at archery!" the way Gotham force feeds the Batman mythos

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  6. The Love-Matic Grampa!October 14, 2014 at 4:28 PM

    I don't know, I've enjoyed Gotham so far. I mean, I'm not sure about Barbara Gordon Sr. as a former lesbian drug addict, but it is 2014 and some stuff just goes with the territory. And Jada chewing up the scenery gets a bit tiresome after awhile (and that name has to be a rib on somebody), but in every comic book series a little porcine product must fall. I went into the show understanding that A) it's more police-procedural than pure comic adaptation (which is admittedly tedious if you're not a fan of that genre) and B) it's a prequel which means new characters and not-fully-formed favorites abound. So I wasn't disappointed.

    Don't know why they made Alfred an Irishman, though. Very odd.

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  7. And completely unnecessary. Bruce shouldn't be there and a police officer shouldn't be going to a kid and telling him that his parent's killers are still out there.

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  8. davidbonzaisaldanamontgomeryOctober 14, 2014 at 4:29 PM

    And not only does he talk in all riddles, the other characters have to point out their annoyance with his riddles. I GET IT, HE'S RIDDLER

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  9. Gotham's benefiting by going up against Raw but not feeling it at all right now. Tonally they don't seem to know what they want to do. One week they're darkly burning someone alive, the next killing dudes by floating them in balloons. Plus, forget who pointed it out, but by bringing in SO MANY classic Batman characters and you're what, 10 years away at best before Bruce gets near a cape...leaves your current hero as a failure for 10+ years. (not that it'll make it that many seasons, but still).

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  10. Gordon might as well move in. He's at Wayne manor a couple a times an episode, it seems.

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  11. davidbonzaisaldanamontgomeryOctober 14, 2014 at 4:31 PM

    Not gonna bail on it yet because I think there's a good show waiting to come out, but they need to fix their issues by the end of the season.

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  12. And each time ranting about shit I wouldn't tell a shrink let alone a 10 year old

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  13. True, Flash is doing the same things with its characters. You don't see Cisco walking around in oversized shades

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  14. The Love-Matic Grampa!October 14, 2014 at 4:34 PM

    Sure, it's dumb to us because we know Nygma is the Riddler, but FOX wants to branch out beyond the comic book geekdom. Which means reaching people who don't read comics and don't know Batman beyond the 1960's television show. For those viewers, it'll be "shocking" when Nygma turns heel.

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  15. Agreed, I'm sticking around at least through the season.

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  16. davidbonzaisaldanamontgomeryOctober 14, 2014 at 4:34 PM

    Oddly, being tonally all over the place was my chief complaint with the first four Batman movies.

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  17. davidbonzaisaldanamontgomeryOctober 14, 2014 at 4:36 PM

    But I think there's a level of trust it needs to have with the audience on picking up who's who and the rest will find out eventually. You can have the traits, but you don't need them while explicitly pointing them out, which gives me bad memories of Shamalyan's The Last Airbender. Show, don't tell

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  18. The Love-Matic Grampa!October 14, 2014 at 4:37 PM

    Oh, it's far from perfect, but I appreciate what they're trying to do. Plus, you make it too "serious" and the hardcore comic book squad gets mad and goes on a viral campaign against the show. Make it too comic-y and then you lose the mainstream audience.

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  19. The Love-Matic Grampa!October 14, 2014 at 4:39 PM

    Fair enough. I think it helps that Nygma's not around the entire episode dropping riddles because that would be ridiculous.

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  20. davidbonzaisaldanamontgomeryOctober 14, 2014 at 4:41 PM

    I do like the way they've weaved a lot of characters into the world somewhat effectively at the same time, it gives them a lot of flexibility in terms of juggling plots

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  21. The Love-Matic Grampa!October 14, 2014 at 4:44 PM

    Well, to be fair, Catwoman is still a kid, as is Poison Ivy. Penguin is still a low-level mob flunky. Riddler's working for the cops, and we don't know where Joker is. So yeah, we're ten years away from The Goddamn Batman, but his Rogues' Gallery still has a lot of growing left to do as well.

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  22. The Love-Matic Grampa!October 14, 2014 at 4:49 PM

    I actually like the fact that Gordon's not sugarcoating things and is being brutally honest with Bruce. Plus, once you watch you parents get killed in front of you, the train to Normaltown has already left the station. No amount of candy or cute puppies is going to help repair that shattered psyche.

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  23. Meh to both. Constantine's the one I'm waiting for. I'm too much of a geek for my own good about this stuff (and wrestling too, apparently), but that show looks fucking great. Sadly it's in the death slot on the death network (NBC), but I'm pulling for it.

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  24. davidbonzaisaldanamontgomeryOctober 14, 2014 at 4:55 PM

    At least NBC showed with Grimm that it'll sticj with shows on Friday night if they perform well, so here's hoping (if it's good)

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  25. After they killed Awake, which was just SO good, I'm pretty leery. But supernatural stuff seems to have staying power on TV...and I don't mean THAT show (though I watch it as well).

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  26. I've heard Gotham is pretty bad, Gordon is good, but the writing is just corny.

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  27. I liked Gotham's pilot. Second and third episodes were terrible. But last night's episode bounced back and was my favorite of the show so far.

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  28. Magoonie NOT Teddy BelmontOctober 14, 2014 at 5:03 PM

    I watched the pilot of Flash last week and yeah, it was pretty good. The episode didn't blow me away but it did enough to keep me interested. I see a few directions the show can go in and all seem cool. Scott, you really should try to get into Arrow, it's a GREAT show and similiar to what you explained fits in a bunch of characters, good and bad, into the show in great ways. Arrow does initially start off a little blah but it really does pick up.

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  29. I wish Gotham had fewer characters. It seems like there are so many stories going on, you forget about some of them until they come up again. Also, I wish they hadn't killed off Bruce's parents in the first five minutes of the first episode. Give us a chance to learn about them.

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  30. YankeesHoganTripleHFanOctober 14, 2014 at 5:10 PM

    Speaking of TV, I finally figured out who Lena Dunham reminds me of....Ursela the Sea Hag from the Little Mermaid! (yes I know this has nothing to do with Flash or Gotham but I felt that it's has way to long since she has been bashed and I felt the need to change that.)

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  31. Magoonie NOT Teddy BelmontOctober 14, 2014 at 5:10 PM

    I haven't tried Gotham yet but yeah, you hit on why I really like Arrow so much. It lets the comic geeks like myself get a slight idea of what's going to happen while leaving everybody else in the dark. I have a friend into Arrow and she has no idea who people are. I was watching The Suicide Squad episode with her and kinda heeled out over the Harley Quinn tease meanwhile it flew over her head. It really goes out of its way as a show to just let the characters develop into what they'll become on their own and not pushing it.

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  32. I'm enjoying Gotham but my girl is a little "meh" about it. I have a feeling that its building to a couple of the final episodes.

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  33. I hope they consider sending Bruce off to boarding school by season's end, write the little albatross off for a few seasons

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  34. davidbonzaisaldanamontgomeryOctober 14, 2014 at 5:22 PM

    I think they should've spent the first season establishing the importance of the Waynes to Gotham then have the murder on or around the season finale, but I guess they want young Bruce fucked up from the start.

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  35. Starting the series with the Waynes' murder was about as unimaginative as it gets. I guess the people running the show felt they needed to hook casual viewers with something they would recognize, over a reference only diehards would get.

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  36. I've been watching Gotham in a "so bad it's good" way, while I couldn't even last the first eight minutes of "The Flash."

    Agents of SHIELD right now, though... holy crap did it turn amazing.

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  37. Yes--I would rather have them develop Bruce into Bats off screen. Right now he's an unlikable emo kid--send him away for a while.

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  38. I'm enjoying both Gotham and the Flash. Gotham has a few flaws to be sure, but I'll give it a few more episodes as it figures itself out. I started watching Arrow this summer and enjoyed watching about 6 episodes or so--but binge watching was a bad idea, as the episodes sort of dragged out and I got depressed looking at how many episodes remained in the first season. It was good, but not good enough for me to commit to I felt like.

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  39. Arrow people: what's the consensus on Laurel? I resent having to fast forward through her stuff and whatever surgeon got a hold of her face should be a criminal of the week on any of the superhero shows

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  40. Gunther the Nasty LoserOctober 14, 2014 at 5:51 PM

    Looks like I've added another show to my DVR. The 1st ep of Flash is OnDemand through the beginning of Nov, and it looks like tonight is only the 2nd episode.


    Never watched Arrow, and certainly never watched Smallville.

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  41. Gunther the Nasty LoserOctober 14, 2014 at 5:57 PM

    And like I've said about Gotham, Jada Pinkett Smith is AWFUL.

    Anything DBSM says to the contrary is a lie.

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  42. Extant1979 - Ghetto SuperstarOctober 14, 2014 at 6:01 PM

    She's easily the worst character on the show.

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  43. She feels like a walking network note. "Let's be sure to have something female fans can connect with."

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  44. Extant1979 - Ghetto SuperstarOctober 14, 2014 at 6:05 PM

    "I've heard Arrow similarly "gets it" but ain't nobody got time for that."


    You're missing out on what is, right now, the best superhero show on television. I don't know if Flash will overtake it eventually (I haven't watched the first episode as I'm still rewatching S2 of Arrow), but right now Arrow is easily tops.


    And with the promise of Ra's Al Ghul in S3, I'm betting Arrow ratchets it up even more this season.

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  45. Extant1979 - Ghetto SuperstarOctober 14, 2014 at 6:06 PM

    My girlfriend watches Arrow and is on the same page with me with the Laurel hate, so they botched that...

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  46. I might watch this just for Tom Cavanaugh. Loved him in Ed.

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  47. Arrow is the best show on television has been pretty much since the day it premiered, any other opinion is invalid.

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  48. His parents just died, you unfeeling monster!

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  49. Ed was great until he got with Carol Vessey.

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  50. Young Bruce Wayne is so bad I wish he took one of his parents bullets.

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  51. It has been awesome since Winter Soldier came out.

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  52. Gordon is like the most stereotypical Good Cop ever.

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  53. Arrow is the SHIT.. Well worth the time and effort. I heard good things about it and finally binged watched it last month and it's everything people were raving about. Damned good show!

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  54. Yeah.. the Wayne murder could have at least been at the end of the first episode.. build up Bruce before that fateful night.

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  55. I just found out he was gonna be Vibe and marked out. I used to be a big fan of Vibe when he first debuted in the 80's.. It was cool to have a break dancing superhero. Surprised that his character was still around.

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  56. It's one of the best shows on TV period.

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  57. I didn't mind her that much in season one but when she became the drug-addled psycho in season 2 she became unbearable.

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  58. Arrow doesn't pick up until the second half of season one. And it flies into the stratosphere by season 2.

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  59. I don't get The Flash. The character I mean, not the show which I haven't seen.


    I mean, he can run really fast. Great.

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  60. Yes! Get to know the Waynes for once.

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  61. Firestorm will be on Flash. Sold.

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  62. I still can't help but wonder if Gotham getting on Fox was part of the deal that made getting the West series onto DVD at last possible?
    Also, as Batman series go, Adult Swim just showed the remainder of Beware the Batman, a CGI animated series originally on the Saturday morning "DC Nation" on Cartoon Network. I had doubts about it at first, moreso since it came after Batman: The Brave and the Bold, but it ended up being a pretty good series. They are all about using B-and-lower-grade Batman characters (until now, as we've seen Killer Croc and Harvey Dent as a cop-meets-J.Jonah Jameson recently), and it works.

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  63. I'm really enjoying The middle, supernatural, and the big bang theroy more.

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  64. "The lightning chose you." Please tell me I'm not the only 1 who facepalmed @ hearing that line?

    Also I assume Barry Allen's dad probably had the WORST defense attorney EVER! If he was convicted w/ allegedly little evidence.

    The guy who played Weather Wizard was AWFUL.

    Is anybody else put off by the incestuous undertones that a potential Barry/Iris relationship would have?

    Other than those things, it was alright I guess. Not atrocious, but I wasn't wowed or anything either.

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  65. I had low expectations and didn't even watch the Pilot until a couple days ago, but finally did after hearing good things. I thought Flash was fantastic. Scott is right on that it nails the tone of the comics. It's serious when it needs to be serious, but still light hearted. Definitely on board for now at least.


    I haven't yet seen Gotham. I'll get there eventually. I hope they go for more shared universe TV shows like this (preferably with just the occasional "character pops up on the other show" and vague mentions of other things that happened in the other show, nothing where you have to watch everything to follow). I'd love to see an ongoing Green Lantern show in the same universe (maybe just because I associate Hal with Barry and Ollie).


    And I still think with the success of Guardians of the Galaxy, DC should be all over a Green Lantern Corps...something. Movie, show, something.

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  66. Yeah I'm just waiting for Penguin to kill her.

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  67. I had the same feeling about Arrow (watched the first six episodes or so, enjoyed it, didn't love it enough to commit), but I really liked the Flash's pilot, and seeing so many people on here really enjoying Arrow makes me think I should give it a second chance.

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  68. Let me preface this by saying I haven't watched Gotham yet, but you might be underestimating Batman in the general pop culture knowledge a bit. It will certainly surprise some people, but I think Riddler is one of the Batman villains most people are familiar with (along with Joker and Catwoman). I suspect a lot of people would peg "character talking in riddles" as Riddler.


    Kids who aren't yet into Batman much might not realize it, but is Gotham really a show for kids that young?

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  69. I think the point is Jim Gordon is swimming upstream. He tries his best but ultimately Gotham needs Bruce Wayne to be Batman and then the tide for Gordon.

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  70. Give it to the show for a genius casting: John Wesley Shipp, star of the 1990 "Flash" series as Barry's dad.
    Episode 4 is the big one, the introduction of the Rogue Among Rogues: Wentworth Miller as Captain Cold.

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  71. My problem with Gotham is that bruce is a 12 year old kid. How many years are we going to get until he is an adult and becomes batman?
    They really need to speed up the timeline.

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  72. Laurel is horrible. A perfect storm of poor writing, worst acting, and tone deaf producing combining to create a character who very nearly ruins the entire show as she is rammed down our throats as Ollie's soul mate and the eventual Black Canary. It is truly mystifying considering how much the show gets everything else right as well as the fact that the actress has been decent in other roles.

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  73. Ronnie Raymond is in the next episode... Fucking Firestorm is coming!! That alone is awesome!!

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  74. davidbonzaisaldanamontgomeryOctober 15, 2014 at 1:45 AM

    I bet there will be some year-jumping in between seasons if it has staying power.

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  75. davidbonzaisaldanamontgomeryOctober 15, 2014 at 1:46 AM

    I know I have a cool mom when she recognized Shipp before I did.

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  76. davidbonzaisaldanamontgomeryOctober 15, 2014 at 1:48 AM

    BOO THIS MAN


    It's OK, I get it, I can see why people wouldn't like Jada or the character here. But I think she's the thing from keeping Gotham from being Batman Returns levels of un-entertainingly morose.

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  77. davidbonzaisaldanamontgomeryOctober 15, 2014 at 1:49 AM

    She's literally the only thing wrong with the show. When you're doing a bad impression of Katie Holmes in Batman Begins, you have to go back to the drawing board. And she really doesn't add anything substantial to the show after the first few eps.


    Thank God for Felicity Smoak. She's fucking awesome.

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  78. davidbonzaisaldanamontgomeryOctober 15, 2014 at 1:52 AM

    There's also some pop culture osmosis here: I would imagine the bulk of people "Gotham" is trying to reach have seen "Batman Forever" at some point (as it was the second-highest grossing movie of 1995) and Edward Nygma's name itself figured prominently in the movie's story.

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  79. yup, LOVE Arrow. Juggles the characters really well, and the end of season conclusions have both times been ace. They really know how to build up the bad guys as well.

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  80. yeah, they clicked in after Winter Soldier and it's now bloody ace.

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  81. No love for Walking Dead? That opening episode was damn awesome.

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  82. As to what Scott says above, I don't like John's take on Barry, but his Wally West run and his version of Zoom were both ace.

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  83. I liked flash alot as a kid and enjoyed the pilot. My 3 year old is just getting into superheroes. It easy to explain flash, he can run fast. Spiderman can climb wall and shoot webs, superman can fly
    But yesterday he asked me what super powers batman had, all I could come up with was he's rich and has fancy toys.

    Batmans biggest threat would seem to poverty. Never was into batman comics. Have they ever done a "oh no the market crashed and Bruce Wayne lost millions" for the villianary

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  84. I was confused when some guy (arrow) showed up on flash and it was obvious we were supposed to know him and its seems they were carry on a conversation that made little sense. I had to rewind thinking I missed a scene. Then I saw the arrow commercials. I'm sure if you watch arrow it was cool but left me confused with the conversation and who this guy was and he obviously had a relationship with barry yet it was the first time I saw him

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  85. MikeyMike, WitnessOctober 15, 2014 at 4:41 AM

    There's not set time when the show takes place so they'll speed it up.

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  86. MikeyMike, WitnessOctober 15, 2014 at 4:42 AM

    I watched about five minutes of the latest Gotham last night and stopped after ten minutes.

    The second episode of Flash was better than the first I think. I'm almost always entertained whereas with Gotham it's like "I should be enjoying this because people at work said it's good."

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  87. I would like to see young Bruce start to develop his "playing Bruce" persona to deflect attention from his psychological problems.

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  88. She was funny on SNL.

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  89. It took Bruce 18 years to become the bat in canon. (A nice little homage to the Judeo-Christian mythos, I felt.)

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  90. Most of the Batman world is rich. But let's not forget that insanity is one of his and his rogues super powers.

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  91. Dirty_Dave_DelaneyOctober 15, 2014 at 6:03 AM

    I'm still enjoying Gotham but I do agree the show does have it's issues. The Fox Mooney character is getting annoying and her masterplan so far as evidenced in the last episode seems really weak so I can't wait until her character is killed off hopefully by Cobblepot. I'm loving Donal Logue as Harvey Bullock though and I'm hoping with the introduction of Arkham that we're going to see characters like Hugo Strange and Jonathan Crane.


    One other note on Gotham is that after rewatching the pilot episode I noticed Poison Ivy's mum's name is Alice which makes me hope we'll see an appearance by the Mad Hatter at some point.


    I've binge watched Arrow over the last two weeks and the show is a incredibly fun watch. Anyone who hasn't tried don't be too disheartened by the early episodes of each season because I found that each time I got to the last 4-5 episodes of both seasons I couldn't get to the end cliffhanger and just finish it for the night, I had to continue and watch them all until silly o'clock in the morning.


    Also I'm really enjoying Agents of Shield as they've taken off after a shaky start so I hope Gotham can follow in their footsteps.


    BTW the weird thing is that I've never really been a true comic book fan. I used to love the 90s Spiderman cartoon and watched the Batman cartoon occasionally when I was younger but that was about it. I wasn't even that big a fan of superhero movies apart from the first two Spiderman films. But ever since Nolan's Batman trilogy and MCU kicking major cinematic ass I now can't get enough of this stuff.

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  92. Dirty_Dave_DelaneyOctober 15, 2014 at 6:06 AM

    I didn't mind her as a junkie in self-denial in season two but her being the new addition to Ollie's mini Justice League is quickly grating on me.

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  93. Dirty_Dave_DelaneyOctober 15, 2014 at 6:07 AM

    Thank you for the surgeon comment because the way her face changed from season 1 to season 2 did really annoy me.

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  94. It's actually Fish Mooney which is why most assume Penguin will kill her since penguins eat fish.

    I'm hoping for same with Mad Hatter and Hugo Strange.

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  95. The Love-Matic Grampa!October 15, 2014 at 6:17 AM

    There are people in America who still think the WWE Network is an actual cable channel. And that there were two Ultimate Warriors.

    Never underestimate the obtuseness of our fellow countrymen.

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  96. Dirty_Dave_DelaneyOctober 15, 2014 at 6:22 AM

    I keep referring to her as Fox Mooney for some reason, probably because Fish Mooney is a name so ridiculous that it would even look out of place as a name for a wrestler on NXT!

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  97. The Love-Matic Grampa!October 15, 2014 at 6:25 AM

    It's probably better not to assume the audience is that savvy. I mean, there are people out there who've never read a comic book in their life and have no desire to, and (foolhardy or not) that's the audience FOX wants to reach because they figure the comic books fans and Bat-philes are automatic gets (and they are).





    We make the same mistake with wrestling, too. We can't fathom the possibility that someone wouldn't know who John Cena and Randy Orton are, but we live in the wrestling bubble. Much in the same way someone who lives in the reality show bubble can't imagine someone not knowing the various Housewives, or someone in the football bubble being shocked that not everyone knows the starting QBs in the NFL, and so on.



    We think to ourselves "I know this information like I know my own name, how can everyone else NOT know?" and yet it's entirely possible.

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  98. The Love-Matic Grampa!October 15, 2014 at 6:30 AM

    Smallville basically killed my desire to watch any other superhero-related shows on CW. Probably not a fair judgement call, but that's how I feel.

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  99. The Love-Matic Grampa!October 15, 2014 at 6:31 AM

    I'm telling you, that name has to be a rib on somebody.

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  100. I couldn't get through 10 mins of Gotham. Not sure why. REALLY liked The Flash. Never read one of his comics.

    I'm also old enough to have watched the first Flash TV show. I remember liking it, but it was probably bad. Had Mark Hamil as a heel though.

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  101. AverageJoeEverymanOctober 15, 2014 at 7:06 AM

    I hate her in everything.

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  102. AverageJoeEverymanOctober 15, 2014 at 7:07 AM

    only if its puffy sleeve flame head Firestorm

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  103. It is the stupidest name for sure and doesn't fit in the universe IMO.

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  104. davidbonzaisaldanamontgomeryOctober 15, 2014 at 10:05 AM

    I felt the same way too -- I dismissed Arrow before it began simply for the channel it was on -- so thank God "Arrow" and "Flash" are nothing like "Smallville", esp. since they actually let their superheroes be superheroes (Arrow is good for 2-3 action sequences each ep where Oliver puts on the green hood and sticks arrows in baddies) and build their story arcs around heroes and villains colliding. I would highly suggest if you use Netflix, to use a lazy Saturday to check out an episode or two of Arrow: if you've ever craved a quality comic-book-come-to-life show, that show is the one.

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  105. davidbonzaisaldanamontgomeryOctober 15, 2014 at 10:09 AM

    Definitely push through ep. 9 ("Year's End"), once they really get into the stuff on the island and give Oliver a clear Big Bad in Starling City, the show goes through the roof and stays there.

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  106. The acting on Flash is awful, but awful in that acceptably corny comic book kind of way. Nobody talks like that, but nobody can run at the speed of light either so it's okay. Overall I thought the pilot of Flash was a little goofy, but fun overall. If they keep putting episodes on demand I'll probably keep watching, even though Barry Allen looks like he's 12 years old.

    I didn't hate the first episode of Gotham, but the only things I actively liked were Donal Logue and the Penguin. Probably won't keep going with this one.

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  107. Yeah, Barry sounded better when he was narrating, when on screen he sometimes came off as the typical creaky voiced teen, like Tobey Maguire.

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  108. "Fish Mooney." Bobby Heenan: "Who?"

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  109. Amen, brother...I am probably the biggest Firestorm mark alive, ever since he was on the Superfriends. Then I remembered him in the mid '90s and started collecting the comics, and haven't stopped since.

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  110. It's Stein and Raymond, so...????????
    P.S. is it me or would David McCallum have made a good Martin Stein?

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  111. The Love-Matic Grampa!October 15, 2014 at 4:05 PM

    Well, given all the raves, I might have to give it a shot. But man, did Smallville leave a bad taste in my mouth.

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  112. davidbonzaisaldanamontgomeryOctober 15, 2014 at 4:22 PM

    Agreed on all counts with Smallville. But don't pass up Arrow because of it; I did for a year and a half and I missed out on a great show. But now Netflix has the first two seasons up so now is as good a time as any.

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  113. Wouldn't Smallville be more WB?


    Nit-picking, I know.

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