Can't wait for Vince Jordan to tell TCF that he should stop watching Raw to enjoy it more.
Good to see Dr. Unlikely has earned such respect like Meekin has.
DAMMIT MICK, I was gonna make a VJ comment
BUT TEH KIDZ!!!! There's no possible way these hot new acts could breathe and get over without Cena. There are only SEVEN HOURS of weekly TV.
Good article but Dean didn't lose anything interacting with Cena.
Chanting JOHN CENA SUUUUCKS to the tune of his theme needs to catch on more than it has
Never thought to analogize him to a vampire before, but that totally works. Cena beating heels wouldn't be so bad if he actually sold for them instead of AJ-skipping around right after the match ends. Or doing that "aw shucks" shit like he's Michael Jordan right after hitting a buzzer beater. On the rare occasion that he does lose (i.e., to Brock), he's out the next night on RAW without even a limp and cutting a disingenuous Denzel-voice promo. The WWE philosophy is probably that it's like 80's Hogan or current Undertaker where just working with Cena gets the heel over. What hurts the product even more is how they seemingly model the Standard WWE Babyface after Cena. We are force fed smilin' babyface Sheamus and goofy Nickelodeon prankster Dean Ambrose, instead of letting those characters develop organically with the audience and stick to what got them cheered in the first place.
An honest question: let's say tomorrow, that John Cena is incapacitated for whatever reason, and it's beyond WWE's range of fixing. Maybe he pulls a Punk and says 'fuck it', either going home or into movies (a la Rock and Batista). Maybe he commits a very serious felony and beyond saving. Maybe he, God forbid, dies in his sleep. All unlikely scenarios, the latter of which no rational human being would wish on him.Assuming one of these scenarios takes place, and Cena cannot be used in any way by the company save by archive footage, what do you think Vince's first move would be?1) Shift someone else into The God Push that fits Vince's image (face Orton, Reigns)2) Rethink his entire blueprint for how the show should look3) Kill himself immediatelyAgain, the last one probably unreasonable, but what would he do? He's rushed Cena back from fake-firings and real injuries when the ratings drop 75,000 viewers. How would handle the point of no return?
You're the one who eats a meat product where the 2nd half of the name is the sound of ecstasy MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
Great read. I've always loved hearing Dr. Unlikely's opinions.I think the last paragraph is interesting because I've seen so many fans online use the "everything bad is Vince's idea, everything amazing is HHH's idea, and once Vince gets out of the way the return to prominence for the company happens" line of thinking, but we have no proof that any of that is true. HHH has, by all accounts, a significant amount of power now. It's not unreasonable to think that he may be behind some of these braindead decisions, too.
This is pretty spot on. Cena is the most popular guy, but he's obviously hit his ceiling of popularity and go only go downward. But time after time new and interesting characters are just fed to the Cena machine.Remember how Ryder was getting over? And then he was presented as Cena's damsel in distress and was never the same.Remember how great AJ/Bryan were together? And then she got super over with the AJ/Punk/Kane/Bryan angle? And she went from that to being... with Cena for the "two consenting adults made out in a hotel" angle. Because GOD FORBID a character gets over who isn't connected to Cena.Remember how Bray Wyatt was the most interesting character on TV in years? And then he got stuck in an endless Cena feud and was soon half as interesting?Yes, they're building Reigns to be the future. But I highly doubt we won't see "The Juggernaut" Roman Reigns being tied to Cena in an angle in 2015 that somehow robs Reigns of most of his heat.
Cena is Poochie. I thought that has long since been established
Poochie is cooler.
Looking at other posts there, I found this little gem:"*I would, however, totally endorse an angle where Orton decides that he could have been Cena and starts showing up dressed like him and pretending to love the children of the world, but still yelling "STUPID! STUPID!" at them for dropping his shirt when he throws it to them."That would be an Orton "face turn", to me.
Number 1. Oh he'd want Cena around even if/when Reigns or whomever gets the monster push at the start of 2015 but if that wasn't available he'd just go to someone else.
Dean can sell most of that goofy stuff though. Not saying it should have been done in the first place but he made it work.Thankfully this thing with Bray is getting him back to more of his Jon Moxley persona.
I think it's a given though that Vince has the 'last say', and we know (from Y2J's podcast for example) that HHH is a fan of great wrestling and storytelling. I don't think it's unreasonable to think the product will drastically change once Vince is gone, either
Thing with Cena is that unlike Hogan, HHH or Flair, he's not really behind this. He doesn't throw his weight around, don't hear stories of him bossing folks backstage or demanding his own way. He's a good company guy, does what he's told and let's not forget, he's a fan since childhood, no wonder he enjoys the ride and doesn't want to rock the boat. Yet I get that even he seems frustrated by how he's hitting the ceiling as it were and I honestly believe if it were up to him, he would do a heel turn or such to change the character but does what he's told and so keeps as is. Then again, a common comment I hear from guys on radio shows is the reminder that wrestling is basically every man for himself, you make it to the main event spot, you're damn well going to do your best to hold onto it so not as surprising Cena wouldn't want to get out of the way either.
There is literally no evidence that Cena would want to turn heel. He has actually said the opposite in interviews.
Yep, although I completely agree with clipping Ryder's wings. Guy needs to learn how to speak a coherent sentence before he can be trusted to represent the company
Even though I like Cena, I find it very catchy.
I wonder sometimes if this is Triple H's ultimate revenge against the IWC."They said I was bad? I was sucking heat out of people?! Wait until they get a load of Cena...for 10 years!"
Yeah no way dude, the last thing Cena wants is to turn heel
Totally agree. I called Cena a "heat siphon" a couple weeks ago because of the way he snuck into the Ambrose/Rollins rivalry and tried to leech off their heat. When you throw in Ryder, Wyatt, Punk, Ryback and others, "vampire" is probably a better term. Fabulous stuff... and depressing at the same time.
He's laid out good reasons why it shouldn't happen himself.
I think fans should start cheering for Cena ironically."10 more years! 10 more years! 10 more years!"
Bottom line is that WWE is not in the business of maximizing ratings and audience interest - they are a monopoly. As such, their role is ensure their long-term existence. Cena is a highly loyal guy who takes orders and shows up all the time. Part of all of this is the perception of control. Cena's controllable, Cena is a guy management understands, Cena is a guy management can trust. Cena is a guy who can move x amount of merch. Cena won't do anything to destroy the WWE brand. If they create another star, there's a chance they could jump to a competitor or go off the reservation...and destroy their monopoly. They need just enough interchangeable parts to keep ticking along for the next 20 years and maintain enough audience interest to run a profit. Yea, it's possible WWE could get 4.5 ratings on Raw again if they move somebody else on top or make Cena a heel, but it could drop below 2 if the f*ck things up. They are playing it safe. It isn't an optimal for us, but Bottom line is that they don't give a shit about what we think - and in their shoes, I wouldn't either - as long as they keep revenues above costs.I guess the thing I find disappointing is how this all feels less like WCW circa 2000, it's AWA in an alternative universe where they were the only game in town. Rather than dying due to lack of interest and getting supplanted by another product, we in North America have to watch them in order to get ANY fix for a major program. The parallels are creepy.A tone-deaf owner (Vince as Verne) directing traffic and ignoring what his audience wantsCena as Nick Bockwinkel [company guy who fits the company's view of who a top guy should be]Punk is Hulk Hogan [smart marketer who doesn't fit the mold, difference being Punk has no other place to go]Verne Gagne's farm is the Developmental CenterYou even have the intermarriage shit with Stephanie playing Donna Gagne and HHH as Larry Zbyszko
imagine if he was VJ J
What bothers me is that Cena doesn't get any blame for WWE's misfortunes. In wrestling, isn't the top guy always the one who's responsible for biz doing well or sucking?
Bryan and Roman being gone right now must be factored in to Cena right now. That's not defending how he's booked, just that the two guys they've pushed heavily as potential top faces are out right now. It's Cena, Dean, and now Randy, maybe Ryback in a few months and of course Reigns when he comes back.Basically the company has a lot of potential to be consistently good but booking and injuries have stifled them for the time being. Injuries are temporary but the Cena thing is a harder fix. The best we can hope for is a Cena cooldoown post-Mania.
It'd be awesome if Cena was a real life heel."Hey Daniel, you should do this flying headbutt this way...it won't damage your neck as much...""Hey Punk! I just got this nice big fat check for 25k!" "For what?" "Vince said I'm going to headline WrestleMania with the Rock!" "WHAT?! MOTH@#$*)#$*#! VVIINNCCEE!!""Roman, you should do these stretches this way. It'll help your back..."
Zack Ryder was a harmless opening match midcard guy. He popped the crowd and sold some merchandise. I don't think anyone was pining for him to be world champ or anything. Ryder had the potential to be a babyface fixture in the company for years.
The issue is Stephanie will continue to represent Vince's mindset long after his death.
It reminds me of the SNL skit where Belushi was an asshole when the camera was off but turned into a nice guy when it was on.
The inCenarator for hot acts has been churning long before just this year.
Yeah, if Bryan just hadn't injured his neck, whole year would be shaping up much differently and Reigns out too factors into it. Cena's proven he can carry the big load so no surprise they fall back on him when other plans fall through and can't blame WWE for losing two key guys in a rough time.
True but Hogan said much the same before 1996, he was more than comfortable as the face, he really had to be talked into going heel and we saw how damn successful that was in WCW.
No stories except for Jericho and Edge's on the Talk is Jericho podcast, which put other Cena Uber Alles moments in stark relief. The somehow popular idea that John Cena is somehow the one and only top guy in the history of wrestling never to use his power is silly.
Hogan new he was in a perfect situation with the nWo. As badly as I want a Cena heel turn I don't think "creative" has the chops to make it into interesting television for more than a week or 2.
Ryder could have been the new Santino. A goof that sells some decent merch, an underdog that WWE can trust to carry the IC/US belt against a heel for like 3 months.It's like WWE had a huge problem abusing and sucking the life out of Ryder or something, as if they they NEVER do that to Bryan or Ziggler.
I don't blame Cena for that. And I don't agree with the guy about Dean but Bray suffered from the finishes of his matches with Cena, not the matches themselves which were quite good.
Didn't say never used power, sure he has but you also don't hear the degree of talk of Cena throwing his weight around like HHH, Hogan or Flair. I really haven't heard that many cases of Cena outright burying a guy or refusing to work with someone and such. He's made it clear he's damn happy to be where he is and enjoying the ride while he can.
Yeah, it's pretty incredible how Hunter's suddenly the reason behind anything good because he grew up watching the NWA or some bullshit. As if Stephanie isn't Vince 2.0 and Hunter doesn't have a bodybuilding fetish of his own.
Short of these three things happening, I have no reason to believe there will be "drastic" changes when "HHH takes over":1: Vince going away (obvious, but required)2: Steph COMPLETELY steps away from the wrestling "branch" of WWE, focusing on the business/other divisions end.3: Bonnie Hammer leaves USA/WWE leaves USA.(OPTIONAL) 4: WWE returns to a privately held business.Otherwise, it'll be the same old shit, just new names on the doors/stationery. (Yes, my opinion was used to create this.)
They'll score 6/10 constantly with Cena. They know what they'll get with him on top, they'll be able to keep churning audience and selling shirts (as everyone grows out of Cena fandom/wrestling in general), and they have no serious competition, so there are no outside forces causing them to consider anything else.Could they get 8/10 or 9/10? Sure. But that, to someone with influence, is an unnecessary risk.It only frustrates those of us who've been around long enough to know that they can do better.
HHH signed KENTA, Prince Devitt, Kevin Steen, El Generico, and PAC. If he still only likes bodybuilders he has a weird way of showing it.
Well, you said no stories about him throwing his weight around or demanding shit, and I was just pointing out that there are, and it certainly makes a person wonder about other matches he's had, such as the Extreme Rules match against Wyatt.
Bonnie Hammer leaving USA or, more importantly, WWE not being on USA would be absolutely terrible for WWE. No matter what we think of Hammer pushing for a PG product or whatever internet meme exists around her, she's a bigtime longtime WWE supporter in a executive role at NBC Universal. WWE would be terrified if she got ousted.And WWE leaving USA at this point would mean something terribly wrong has happened.
They'll get 6/10 NOW...but that score is going to keep dropping as people get bored of the SuperCena act and find something else to watch.
I don't think Cena hurt Ambrose or especially Rollins. Rollins and Cena had a Raw main event style match where Rollins looked like he looked in place and at home. If anything, Cena elevated Rollins to a legit main eventer spot.
I wasn't expecting Ryder to be World Champion. But Ryder was over, sold merch, and would've been a great "social media ambassador" mid-card guy for a company that is obsessed with social media.Ryder had something to offer the company in terms of his fan popularity, and WWE completely killed it in order to feed the Cena/Kane feud.EDIT: Basically what White Thunder says below.
Then expecting any real change is a pipe dream, IMO.
Let's see where they end up.
Fair enough. But even so, at least they got a chance which probably wouldn't have happened without Hunter.
And we've heard about Cena insisting on finishes that make him look good to the detriment of others. You can't watch Cena get a dozen visual falls before Wyatt crawls out the door at Extreme Rules and not wonder if you've heard the Jericho/Edge story about the Team WWE/Nexus finish at SummerSlam.
Bryan and Roman being gone have nothing to do with the previous 5 years or so of Cena being a vampire though.
They could absolutely book a million times better wrestling company with Bonnie Hammer as an NBC Universal executive. The three-hour length hurts them but WWE could have turned it down and not taken the money that came with it. (Under the reasoning that long term it would water down their product and cost them money in the long run.) Not being TV-MA is a non-factor--- that's not affecting their shitty booking. So it's what, Bonnie pushes for more McMahons and John Cena? Come on--- if WWE booked a show that didn't focus on HHH and John Cena yet still got great ratings, do you really think Bonnie Hammer would be telling them to reverse things? Of course not. It's a cop out. They're a TV show that needs to deliver certain ratings within specific broadcast restraints. Bonnie Hammer isn't writing awful characters, boring storylines, 50/50 booking so nobody on the roster gets over, killing off teh midcard titles, etc etc. Vince/HHH/Stephanie are.USA Network is the least of WWE's problems.
It's caused them to focus on Cena more.
If the current creative team at WWE had booked the original nWo angle, hmmm...
I'm only familiar with the story that they told Cena the finish to the Nexus stuff was a mistake, he disagreed and went forward with it, and afterwards told them they were right. Are there others they mentioned?
Scott Hall trades wins and losses with Jerry Flynn.
After Mania 31 will be really interesting. Reigns is probably champ so Cena will be a wildcard.
Ryder could have been this generations Koko B Ware, with Woo Woo Woo and the hair stuff substituting for Frankie.
Yeah, he insisted on the concrete DDT and popping up right after to beat the last two Nexus members by himself. The "oopsie daisy" stuff after, when it's worthless and the damage has been done...shit, maybe Hunter should've tried that during the Reign of Terror, he might be more popular that way.
Wildcard? $9.99 says Reigns will be portrayed as Cena's "little buddy" at some point.
To sum up: WWE is through with taking risks because they don't have to and it wouldn't serve their business model.There is a reason why major entertainment companies (think a movie studio) doesn't go all-out on risky movies and sticks with big tentpole features that seem like sure things.
I'd say the NWA-style "nope, no big victory for the face this time either" finish hurt Ambrose more than Cena, though I never really like the "rebellious guy" character teaming up with him, that kinda dings the sheen a little.
I'm just imagining how awesome it'll be when they finally decide to go full out with Cena putting over the next Man. Like, Reigns kicks out of the Super Attitude Adjustment, does the AA in return and then spears him through two tables before pinning him with a foot.Like...Cena is so credible and possesses such an unbeatable aura that anybody that gets a dominant victory over him will be made FOR LIFE. Yeah they did that with Brock, but Brock was already a beast, if they do that for Cesaro or Reigns I think it'd land a lot harder. And I honestly hope they don't turn Cena heel until after he's thoroughly put somebody over as a face because I feel a victory over a heel won't have the same power, y'know?Have Cena be embarrassed in a total victory, crawl off for a month, and then do the heel turn. Because, as dominant as Brock's victory was, if you immediately have Cena bounce back from it the consequences are defanged, and ultimately the consequences of loss are more interesting than a loss itself (Which is Cena's problem in a nutshell, he's pretty generous about giving people offense, but he's just totally unwilling/incapable of selling).
"he's pretty generous about giving people offense, but he's just totally unwilling/incapable of selling" Yeah, that's a big problem and makes the value of the former worthless.
As was said 9 years ago
Right, except 2014 John Cena and Randy Orton is far from a tentpole.You wanna play it safe, sure, but Sony isn't producing a third Spiderman right now because they know the audience has been rejecting it.
I can remember people having "WE'VE CENA NUFF" posters in the crowd as early as 2006.It's nearly nine years later.
Well if you believe the DIRT SHEETZ Cena isn't being considered the main event or WWE title slot at Mania 31. And to be fair, he didn't get that slot at 30 either.
I don't like Ambrose for a ton or reasons, and it's mostly because the rebellion seems so forced and put-upon. He's a guy who shops at Hot Topic and buys pre-torn jeans.And that Joker reference a couple Raws ago...I mean, when you're copying a pop culture figures mannerisms that completely, it really isn't a good idea to be that upfront about it. On a similar note, Cena calling himself Superman was pretty bad, wrestling is already comic-booky, it's just a little too on the nose to be like "Yeah, I'm an invincible superhero who is a paragon of moral purity". It's like a character that's supposed to be self-sacrificing in a movie suffering wounds from his hands, feet and sides. Pointing it your own cliches does not give you a pass, and oftentimes the comparisons are not favorable for you own work.
Maybe but I don't think its a given. Roman won't be back till late December/early January and will be going after Seth whie Cena is with Brock.
That is a very nice analogy, but LEAVE NICK BOCKWINKEL ALONE!!! He is a SAINT!
Very well put. "Cena/Orton X: This Time It's In a Cage (Again)" is basically like Warner Bros. deciding to do Batman 5 in 1999 instead of rebooting the series.
Hrm...I mean, what's worse?Not giving anybody offense and just squashing everybody? Or giving people offense but not selling any of it?The fact that he allows pretty extensive heat segments makes the matches more interesting from a purely technical standpoint (one-sided squashes are not the most fun thing to watch), but from the perspective of 'wrestling as storytelling' it's pretty atrocious.What's less interesting, a guy who never gets hit or a guy who never feels pain?
My friend, we have nine years more at least. Even when Cena is a part-timer, he'll still show up more than we want him to.
Don't forget AJ on that list. She was HUGELY over until she got saddled with the Raw GM role and then sank even further with the Vickie Guerrero "I caught two adults making out in the hallway of a hotel" angle.Sandow also to a lesser degree. He's been toast ever since he failed at cashing in the briefcase last year.
I think a big problem for Cena the last few years is that The Rock feud didn't actually do anything to make him a bigger mainstream star or to provide any kind of spark for him within wrestling. I mean it did amazing business on two Manias (27 and 28) and less than great results on a third (Mania 29), but John Cena as a wrestling entity gained nothing from it. He didn't become more famous, or more beloved (he's less popular with fans than he was before that feud), and his character didn't change at all and it provided zero interesting set-ups for the future. It just happened, and Cena didn't gain anything from it that would propel him to bigger or more entertaining things afterwards.In retrospect either Cena or Rock should have turned heel for the rematch, because that second face vs face match just had nothing to it and ends up being totally forgettable. That or Cena shoulda just went over the first year, because really that Mania 29 win is about as forgettable as it gets. Something that could have made Cena a bigger star and/or more interesting didn't really do so.
That's the major difference between 1980s Hogan and 2010s Cena. Hogan got destroyed for the majority of a match, then had a superhuman comeback. He always got hit, and always felt pain. Hell, most of Hogan's angles started with him getting the shit kicked out of him and looking vulnerable.Cena? Not so much.
...yet. Once Cena has been moved from his current position of power will be when the dirt will come out. Right now, it's just career suicide for other wrestlers to blast Cena.
I still remember the story of Eddie feeling the pressure of Smackdown not doing as well as it could have with him as champion. Does Cena ever feel that pressure?Nope, big smiles for everyone, the Champ is Here, make some wishes.
Fuck, all anybody wanted was Ryder to get a role Some WHERE Between Santino and Kofi Kingston. (Floor and ceiling of what I'd call success for Ryder.)I never found Santino funny. Ryder I got behind, he was an underdog who just wanted to be on the show.
"It's been two decades of We've Cena Nuff, Maggle!"
"Not giving anybody offense and just squashing everybody? Or giving people offense but not selling any of it?"Man, that is a Chinese riddle for the ages.
Wow...a whole post with almost 90 comments of Cena being wrestling's succubus and NOT ONE contrary comment from Vince Jordan.Have to say...I'm kinda disappointed.
Hogan could sell and his facial expressions were great. He made folks pay to see him get his revenge...
Wu wei man...Yeah, I don't have an answer. They're both bad...maybe equally so.
That "YOU are The Joker!" stuff was classic 2014 WWE Creative stuff. I audibly fucking groaned hearing that. How on the nose can you be.
I hear ya. Brock Lesnar DESTROYED him and he barely changed. He wasn't more aggressive in the rematch and it just seemed like another Cena bout.
Great, great point. I never looked at it that way, but yeah, the Rock vs. Cena feud was obviously a 3-year plan to make Cena into a mainstream wrestling icon. It didn't work. And Cena's been even more blah ever since.
If Earthquake squashes Cena, do fans send him get well soon cards?
People were comparing him to Ledger Joker in 2010.
What bugs me is that Cena isn't a dummy. He's a smart guy who understands wrestling. He has to know he (and the product) are as stale as balls and as the main guy in the entire industry, it's partly on him to do something about it...doesn't he care?
"They're both bad...maybe equally so."And there's the answer. In short bursts, no-selling is fine. But when it's a majority of your selling (and you're not a "monster"), there's something wrong.
As long as those checks are coming in, probably not enough to "rock the boat". And that's not a BAD thing, just unfortunate for some people.
... shut up, Night.:)
Pretty much everyone should watch PWG instead.
He'll be wrestling randy orton in boring matches for the next 20 years
They aren't making a 3rd Spiderman now because *competition* from other superhero franchises makes it a no-go. WWE faces no headwinds when it comes to wrestling in North America, so why bother? It's not whether it's optimal, it's whether it is sufficient to pay the bills.
Mostly because he was blatantly copying Ledger's performance. It's still not one of those things that you want to draw that much attention to, subtlety can exist, even in wrestling.
The new plan in wrestling is to make as much money as possible, invest it, then check out and either get cush role with the company or go and do something else. Young guys look up to Rock, Batista, Jericho as guys who are successful outside of wrestling and only come back when they feel like it or get a big payday. You think any of them want to end up like Hogan or, even worse, Flair?Cena is banking as much money as he can while he can. The only thing that could get him to leave is if his movie career actually takes off with Trainwreck and The Nest and Hollywood starts offering more roles.
Right, it was supposed to be Cena's Wrestlemania 3 moment, the storyline and match that defines his career and makes him a bigger mainstream star. The angle that makes him an even bigger drawing card.Or it could have been his '96 Bash at the Beach moment, the angle that changes his character and gives him years worth of new interesting storylines.Instead it did neither. It served a short term purpose (an important one, mind you) of drawing a ton of money on PPV. But it did nothing for Cena after that point.Again, Mania 29 could have been a MAJOR turning point for WWE programming what with Punk's undefeated streak potentially coming up against THE STREAK, Brock's first Mania match, and the final chapter of the Rock/Cena saga. And instead none of those delivered on things that would propel the business going forward, especially Rock/Cena.
The NoC match was worked pretty differently from the SummerSlam match. SummerSlam was pretty much an extended squash for Lesnar. NoC had Cena trying his best to avoid Lesnar's suplexes that had worn him down in the previous match, stay on him with flurries of offense and try to hit him with his finisher as many times as he could to keep Brock down. And weren't the Wyatts fed to him on the post-SummerSlam RAW to show that he was fired up about losing to Lesnar the night before.
Probably bc he's making a ton of money and doesn't care, not worth rocking the boat. Having said that, he really could alter things a bit - like pretending to get invested in feuds and looking human. that would enhance him and the product and they're easy fixes that don't involve major changes
First Mania match post return for Brock. There was the catch-as-catch-can classic that was Brock/Goldberg at XX and Brock nearly turning himself into a quadriplegic at XIX.
I'm a huge proponent of Mania 29 coming down to Punk's Title Streak vs. Undertaker's Streak, especially since Taker stuck around for a month or so after (he could have quickly dropped the title).I'm also a huge proponent of Brock not facing Triple H again at Mania 29 after the SummerSlam debacle.
If Spiderman 2 (whatever the last one was called) made more money (it wayyyy underperformed) and was well received, they'd be making more. But that's not what happened, so they're smartly shutting it down and looking for ways to retool it rather than kill off the brand completely.
Cena makes everything cornier, but that line, and the "Why so serious?" afterwards did more damage to Ambrose than the sex-doll shit.I mean, being part of a stupid segment is harmful, but it's not irreparably bad (Punk survived the sobriety test, for example) but being associated verbally with something like that? That's harder to escape. People are still chanting the stupid shit Rock came up with, people are still calling Heyman a walrus, which was a BABYFACE MIZ line. I don't think Ambrose's dangerous/cool persona will survive a connection to a comic book movie villain, even one as respected/revered as Ledger's Joker.
I guess...maybe we should start treating Cena like a monster?Cena is just a shorter Undertaker, or maybe a skinnier Vader.
It's a wild world I find myself in when RYBACK and his return are the highlight of Raw, and I find myself wanting him back in the main event.
Yeah, we all know that, we got it, lol. Don't need to circle it with a purple crayon on TV.
That'd be my dream. Get "Fuck You" money, and come back when you get the bug, and because you have the leverage, you can do the shit you want to do.Honestly, wrestling being just privately wealthy individuals working part-time might not be the worst thing in the world.
Cena even lost out on the Marine 3 and 4 to Miz!
No you don't...you just THINK you do!
Dean not too much, but the storyline itself have (imo) and something that should have been a logical progression (Ambrose wanting revenge against Seth treason) became burden by adding cena to the mix
As much as the main roster bitches about part timers, they all aspire to be The Rock or Brock Lesnar.
Yup, 100%. Man, HHH vs Brock at Mania was so incredibly flat. Nobody there gave half a shit about babyface HHH's quest for revenge.And yeah, Streak vs Streak could have been an amazing draw.
Yeah of course I meant since his return
My favorite is seeing that clip of Cena beating Rock and the crowd barely having the enthusiasm to react to it positively or negatively.
If this GWF/NJPW deal is legit, with JR (or ANY English-speaking announcer, he's just the one name I've seen mentioned) calling NJPW's Jan. 2 event, I definitely have something to look forward to.
Right, all of that isn't new to me though. Are there other stories like that or is this the only one we currently know of?Sometimes people legitimately just make mistakes. It does happen!! I wouldn't know as I never make 'em. But I hear that it does to others!!
Like I said, just the one from guys we know have no reason to make shit up. Dykstra certainly could be telling the truth, but how can we be sure.
After hearing Edge and Jericho talk about the Sunmerslam 2010 event and the DDT recovery spot being Cena's idea I actually begin to doubt if Cena DOES understand wrestling. At least, understands the baby face side of wrestling. How can I feel sorry for someone who is seemingly never in danger? He rarely seems vulnerable. So how can I feel sorry or root for or get invested in them? When Austin was on top sure he won most of the time. But he sold his ass off, he sold the heels to make you think "Oh shit this might be the night" and he was expert at getting you behind him with his fiery comebacks.
Why does it have to be one or the other? Why can't he give people offense and sell it? Austin gave people offense and sold it. Rock gave people offense and sold it. Even Hogan gave people offense and sold it. Why can't Cena give people offense and sell it? Especially if he knows he's getting the shoulderblock/Knuckleshuffle/AA to win?
Get well soon tweets?
A lot of CRZ's regulars are smart guys. Justin Shapiro and thecubsfan know what's up.
I'll definitely get that show if I have cable access by that time.
I really think you're taking that comparison way too seriously no pun intended. People LIKE Ledger Joker. It's one of the reasons people started paying attention to Jon Moxley in 2009. A throwaway line comparing the two won't hurt Dean any. They hammer the point sure that's bad but they haven't.
Justin Shapiro is funny as hell too
I heart CRZ. I wrote a Simpsons wrestling parody for CRZ's site about 15 years ago. I was a kid, it wasn't that good. But about a year later they released a Simpsons Wrestling video game and I do believe they stole my idea.
Didn't they keep saying that Cena's character would change as a result of that feud? That Cena would go places he'd never been, that he'd never be the same, and on and on. And then he wins, and he's the same, and the characters whole thing is that he'll NEVER change. And the crowd boos, every time. The crowd boos when he brings up injured soldiers. They boo when he brings up make-a-wish kids. And yet they just keep booking it, over and over. It's (hyperbole machine on) grotesque.
"This is just no way to run a TV show. There can't be anyone who honestly thinks the smart thing to do is recognize someone with growing popularity and think: how can we use this to get Cena over?"It's not even about getting him over, it's about KEEPING him over. Vince is so utterly terrified and convinced that Cena is the ONLY thing that draws and ratings, interest, and merch sales at all that everyone has to revolve around him constantly all the time even when it doesn't at all. The simple fact is Cena's been around for a WHILE now, and he needs to evolve and do it naturally, and they're not letting him and it's ruining everything around it. Same thing that happened to Hogan. Turning heel isn't the magic answer, but just doing SOMETHING different with him is. That's why the Wyatt match at Mania felt right, and if Wyatt had won and actually gone over it would have been looked at like a step in the right direction, not backwards like it turned out.
CRZ's smart, too, but he needs to call out Keith on trying to poach his talent
Earthquake becomes the top face in wrestling
All we can do is wait it out. Since I'll refrain from wishing the man any kind of harm, all we can do is wait it out and hope he's done with wrestling soon.
I don't know about that. If the plan all along was for Lesnar to take the strap at SummerSlam I'm sure we'd still be heading towards Cena vs Lesnar at Rumble
their cage match was abysmal
Yeah good point, they definitely could have used him there. I'm just a Ryder hater so was worried when I saw him mingling with Cena (little did I know that would be his end)
Yeah true that
does that make Daniel Bryan Curt Hennig?
Or the title is back on Cena by Summerslam....
Come to think of it "drastic" is strong, but I think for sure there'll be noticeable changes and in a good way. I just don't want to have this negative wrestling brain when I look to the future otherwise I might as well just give up watching now
Not if Hunter promises to buy her an awesome 15th anniversary wedding gift. Or... some other stuff with his sledgehammer
I miss downvotes.
absolutely incorrect. Hammer is part of the triumvirate of out of touch people in her, Kevin Dunn, and Vince. Those three are major impediments to WWE ever getting better at this point. Hammer has huge input into what they want on Raw, including guest hosts/stupid celeb cameos, more McMahons, More Cena, no naughty words or too much violence, 3 hour Raws, and a demand for shows that constantly hit "high" notes at the top of the hour and causing disjointed storyteling and too much repetition.
Lots of sports tonight for me.Red Wings at CapitialsWizards at HeatGiants at RoyalsPlus one of my favorites are coming back.Dude, You're Screwed
from this Variety article: How John Cena is Going Hollywood to Attract New Fans to WWEhttp://variety.com/2014/film/news/how-john-cena-is-going-hollywood-to-attract-new-fans-to-wwe-with-judd-apatow-amy-poehler-tina-fey-amy-schumer-1201336538/"Cena’s also a company man to the core: When asked to take off the baseball cap that’s branded with his signature “You Can’t See Me” move — part of the brightly colored uniform he wears in the WWE ring — he always declines. “They don’t pay me to promote my hair cut,” he says."
I hear this CRZ guy is great to follow on Twitter during Raw.
That hat will come off when Cena's being paid by the movie studio, and not WWE.
You let me write for the blog, so that's not saying much.
Your SSW stuff has been exquisite, and worth every penny.Wait, it's FREE? MORE VALUE!
His point about the Cena ceiling is what I've been saying about him. He's on every week, beginning, middle & end of the show. We see the ratings. Roman Reigns & Dean Ambrose, while getting pushed, haven't cut into Cena's exposure--yet the company seems to have gotten cold feet about both, and the solution was Even More Cena. After the SummerSlam massacre they were all "oh no, Cena's losing his heat, better book a rematch with Lesnar, let him look stronger." They did that, and Lesnar is less awesome, while Cena is no or less over than he was already. Quality aside, this last RAW was among the lowest rated in a year and it was THE JOHN CENA SHOW from start to finish. When are they going to start connecting the dots?
Cena himself doesn't suck. He is incredible at doing what the company wants him to do.I wish we could have seen a Rock/Cena feud during the Attitude Era.
I really do wonder what things'd be like if Bryan didn't get injured. Let's say he's the guy working with Lesnar (fair assumption), what would Cena be doing? Would Ambrose/Rollins have happened the way it did? It certainly wouldn't have been a main event
You mean you haven't been paying me my $9.99 a month?
Cena vs Orton.
"but otherwise some of our viewers might not get it!"
Flair had it wrong. To be the man, you gotta stay the man.Cena always shows up and rarely gets injured. When he does get injured, his recovery time is above the 99th percentile.For every ten guys that could be a franchise player, there's only one that actually goes out and does it.
Hey, all I'm saying is once we hear more stories about it from those who don't need to nurse the grudge I'm more willing to look at Cena as this power-abusing egomaniac; one story won't make or break it for me. Dykstra's stuff also has a very personal bent where who knows if John won't f with you if its because of relationship matters. I guess time will tell.
with one important addition: I don't think he would necessarily pick one guy and push him to the moon, I could easily see go the company doing a "throwing everything against the wall and see what sticks"-approach then (= solid pushs for several upper/midcarders and seeing who gets over the most).
"anybody that gets a dominant victory over him will be made FOR LIFE" - I totally disagree. in today's WWE, no one is set "for life" by any victory.
"[...] but those two have no reason to make up shit."since when is "that guy started a relationship with the woman I was engaged to" not a "reason to make up shit"?
I'm not sure about this. the corporate structure in my companies has changed a lot in the last ten or fifteen years. I can easily see a motivated "yes-man" rising to the top just by being the ultimate corporate loyalist.
Sure, like another guy said, only guys like Jericho or Edge without career concerns to think about are in position to talk. We've got that one story and other match finishes that make you go "hmm" at this point, basically. Time will tell, like you said.
"Those two" is in reference to Jericho and Edge.
although there is one huge difference: the WWE has undergone the biggest change to the biggest model since dozens of years ago. they need the Network to not fail - because they can't go back to selling ppvs for fifty or sixty dollars.
Not only that, you *never* see him get gassed. no matter how long the match has gone on for.
Or him v Hollywood Rock.
What amazes me is the people who comment on this blog occassionally. I don't know if he's still around, but the guy who used to do "Ask Thor" for RPGamer would comment here occassionally. That dude was the funniest writer I've ever read.
Yeah no, I'm not dealing with that forum style post. Sorry.
In a weird way, I almost feel like this is to Cena's detriment. He never looks gassed, never looks blown up, is rarely if ever breathing hard, and barely sweats. So no matter how long the match goes, he doesn't look like he's been through a war. Compare that to a guy like Flair, in his prime. Even though he had great conditioning, his perfectly styled hair would sweat down and be wet and matted, and he looked like he'd been through hell. Cena wrestles that same 92 Rumble match, guaranteed he looks like he hasn't even worked hard.
Sorry, just got home. :)
Agreed. The problems aren't Cena's fault as I think he does the best with what he is allowed to work with. The problem is the company's lack of forward thinking and, really, lack of competition.