Hey Scott, you've mentioned before how much Diesel was tanking business and as soon as they put the belt on Bret, business picked up again and I want to know why that was. You've also mentioned before that once Bret won the title he was booked as a lameduck champion, but reading your 1995 Raw reviews, Bret was also being booked as a lameduck challenger too as the guy was still feuding and having problems with Jerry Lawler, a guy anybody can beat. Hell even Aldo Montoya pinned the King once. So yeah, my question is since the booking didn't improve, and since Bret's credibility seemed to be pretty low at this point, why did business pick up?
Because people liked and cared about Bret Hart, and not about Diesel.
There is some truth to that, but at the same time WCW showed they can destroy anyone's marketability as Bret stopped being a draw towards the end of his run there and it's not like Bret was booked any better in 95 than compared to his WCW run as Bret was essentially booked as a midcarder.
ReplyDeleteDiesel was the lowest drawing WWF champion in history. Bret wasn't. Not sure what more you need here.
ReplyDeleteLooks like somebody needs to take another look at Nash's chart display.
ReplyDeleteBut don't blame Big Kev for that, Scott. All he does is complain about the guys they put him up against. Bret at Rumble, HBK and Mania, feud with Sid, Mabel at SummerSlam. I imagine Nash thought he could draw if he was against tomato cans like Jarrett for a year.
ReplyDeleteWWF was leaking on Diesel power, and it needed filled up.
ReplyDeleteThis was remedied by filling it up with someone's tears that just watched a Bret match, and the WWF ran again!
THAAAAANK YOUUUUUU, BRETTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By the end of his WCW run the company was running on fumes and everyone knew it was a matter of time before they went under. They were dead by mid 99
ReplyDeleteDiesel also started only slapping hands with people if it had a black glove on it. That could've been what turned business around
ReplyDeleteSniff...go get'em, champ...
ReplyDeleteThey also turned hall and nash into huge draws.
ReplyDeleteTake it easy. No ones doubting the awesomeness of your fellow canadian
ReplyDeleteThe general sentiment around here is usually that neither Diesel nor Michaels drew as champ. Nash lost the belt to Bret in November, Shawn won it at Mania. Are we saying that Brets 6 month reign really boosted business in a notable way? I dont know the #s, so I really am asking, not antagonizing
ReplyDeleteThat's the weird thing, even Shawn had more world title credibility than Bret during this time, but even Bret did better business than him regardless.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure where this revisionist history that says when Bret had the belt they were raking in money hand over fist came from. Do you use Canadian dollars when Bret had the belt?
ReplyDelete....Just like Bret does not doubt El Dandy.
ReplyDeleteI don't know if anyone's making that claim, just that he drew more than Nash. Which is a fair claim, since you and I drew almost as much as Nash.
ReplyDeleteAnd Bret was a legit draw internationally.
The idea is that Diesel was the lowest drawing champion. The question then becomes, how much higher up was Bret on that list? Probably not that much higher.
ReplyDeleteI know you're never serious but to answer the question for others who may be, you can look at history of wwe and look at the attendance numbers in September and October 1995 and compare them to December 95 and into January and February 96 and there is a bump in attendance. For example, they drew 8,000 paid with Diesel on top in the garden but in January drew 10,000 paid with Bret. There are also a good amount more sell outs once Bret takes over. It's not like they doubled their attendance and he still had some low drawing shows, but Bret did draw about 1,000 more fans on average from what I looked at, sometimes more. Just my observation, I checked the site because I was curious.
ReplyDeleteI've heard the legit draw internationally thing, but it ignores the fact that international shows may draw better, but the profit is actually lower because the overhead is so much higher.
ReplyDeleteI just checked the numbers comparing Diesel to Bret in house show attendance and Bret did draw more from what I can see. I used the history of wwe site.
ReplyDeleteWas who was the champ the only difference in the cards?
ReplyDeletePart of that had to be their gimmick. Bret was always this earnest "take on all comers" type of guy, and Shawn was a whiny douche. Which one had a broader appeal? Not saying anything about how they are/were in real life, but I could never stand shawn at all, and loved Bret. Oh yeah and fuck Kevin Nash. . .
ReplyDeleteTrue. But (and I have no numbers to back this up, this is just what guys who were working then have always said) they say they were going on European tours so frequently in those days because it was the only place they were making any money.
ReplyDeleteCouple of things about that. First, eventually you're going to get to the law of diminishing returns. If not, why not just become a European wrestling company? Second, it's Europe. American entertainment always draws over there. Because it's rare and seems big time. Third, how much less did hbk and Nash draw when they were champ on those tours?
ReplyDeleteNever said they were "raking money hand over fist", I said he was drawing better than Diesel, the lowest drawing champion in history.
ReplyDeleteNot much at all. The Nash-Bret-Shawn sequence was really putrid as far as business went.
ReplyDeleteWell, as far as the diminishing returns go, business picked back up before they had to cross that bridge. For all we know they may well have done more and more in Europe if it ended up being one of the only things keeping them afloat.
ReplyDelete"Second, it's Europe. American entertainment always draws over there."
ReplyDeletesorry, but that's a generalization that's simple not true. if business in every European country would always be the same there wouldn't have been just four dates in Germany this year (compared to thirty (!) in 1994).
also both Michaels and Diesel had basically taken everything away that got them over in the first place: Diesel was a bad ass with a grim look on his face who beat people up, Michaels was a self centered arrogant prick who was able to backup everything he said in the ring.
ReplyDeleteBret was booked a lot worse in WCW than in 1995's WWF.
ReplyDeleteOn Michaels, Bret himself has said Shawn gets a raw deal over "not drawing," that it didn't matter who was champ in '96, WCW would still have taken the lead with the NWO being so hot.
ReplyDeleteI still love that Nash claimed that Bret wanted to be champ so badly that he told Vince he would take a cut in pay, which then cut everyone else's pay since no one could make more than the champ.
ReplyDeleteFucking Nash.
Exactly. It also didn't help that Nash looked like shit in any match that didn't hae him against Bret or shawn. . .
ReplyDeleteTo be fair, ring work means nothing. Hogan has gone out and done the same bare minimum matches for years on top, but he connected with fans. Nash/Diesel sucked as a character once he won the WWF Title.
ReplyDeleteBret couldn't walk down the street in Europe without women throwing their panties at him and men breaking into tears.
ReplyDeleteI don't know if he'd take a pay it specifically to be WWF Champion (though if anyone would), but maybe he agreed to a pay cut in exchange for being used better than he had been. It's not that far fetched that a guy would settle for a certain amount in return for a better push.
ReplyDelete