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Could surviving be even worse for TNA?

Apparently TNA is going to announce they've signed a deal with Destination America which is a channel that a lot of people either don't get, or do get and don't watch.

So even if they do survive and sign on with this channel that almost nobody watches for two years, they're going to have even less of a budget and an even thinner roster.
 
Is Panda Energy's plan to just ride the horse 'till it drops instead of doing the honorable thing and shooting the poor creature in the head to end its' suffering?

I don't particularly get what the endgame is supposed to be, either.  Losing even more money by taking a crappy deal and then running the expensive Manhattan Center for tapings?  The roster is going to have to be trimmed to ROH levels to even survive, and it's not like house show revenues can prop them up. And also, they'll have no Canadian exposure and will lose that market completely.  I just don't get it.  

Comments

  1. In a way, just from a booking perspective, it might be a good thing that they have a low budget. In other words, no more overpaid WWE castoffs!

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  2. Gunner vs. Bram for the TNA Title baby!

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  3. Yeah, the pettiness of that whole one-sided feud strikes me as bizarre. Though it was funny how Vince always treated TED like his nemesis on-the-air, and never mentioned Bischoff AT ALL, despite Eric being the brains behind most of the anti-Vince stuff WCW did. I wonder how much that pissed off Eric?

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  4. Not so much that Sleazy E joined the Federation a few years af

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  5. Better than a 2007 Smackdown mid-card match!!

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  6. TNA must be a huge tax write-off or something for Panda to keep it around at this point. There's no way the brand is making any money for them, so they must be ultimately saving them some amount by keeping them around.

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  7. I agree. Plus, they will save a lot more cash.

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  8. Well, NXT has proven that you don't need big names to have a compelling product. Admittedly, you need a logically booked show and good stories...so, I think they're boned, but good luck to them.

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  9. -"PROVE TNA IS LOSING MONEY! YOU CAN'T DO IT, AND FUCK YOUR LOGIC! THERE'S NO PROOF!"


    -WWF1987 (also, fuck your logic.)

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  10. Theberzerker! HUSS!November 17, 2014 at 6:46 AM

    Everyone in North American wrestling is a stubborn egomaniac, that's why.

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  11. *fucks logic*


    That wasn't enjoyable.

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  12. Much like TNA now. Their days of being the "potential #2" are over, and now their downfall will just be painfully irritating, like a VD that likes to flare up every once in a while.


    They've blown any chance of future goodwill.

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  13. You really shouldn't relegate it to the states. If you're in pro wrestling, chances are, you think you should be a star.

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  14. Pretty sure that losing the Canadian market is waaaay down on the list of things tna should be worried about.

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  15. I think it also must have hit his ego that he was gifted WCW. Had Turner, AOL and Time Warner Media existed under the same management it could have stayed on the air, arguably many more years if not currently. Heck even if it wasn't Jaime Kellner but Corporate Executive X who said "Ok, let's keep it but with a smaller budget," there would still be some sort of wrestling under that same corporate banner. He never beat Turner like he beat all of the territory guys who sold their promotions. And that is kind of the crux of who Vince McMahon is in his heart of hearts. He could never buy his way into the corporate class or even challenge them to the point where it was, as he would like it to be thought of, Vince vs. Ted. And he'll spend the rest of his life trying to dispel the idea that his money comes from low brow entertainment or that he merely the most successful wrestling promoter in history.

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  16. TNA: Destination Obscurity

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  17. Theberzerker! HUSS!November 17, 2014 at 6:52 AM

    You gotta be a blind man not to take one look at Vincent K. McMahon and immediately realize that dude has a massive inferiority complex. Then you learn about his upbringing and it explains everything completely.

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  18. Turner, for all his flaws (you colorized classic movies, you son of a bitch!), is one of the most successful businessmen of the 20th century in a number of fields.

    Vince is the most successful wrestling promoter of the 20th century.

    The gulf between those accomplishments is big enough to sail four Titanics through. So yeah, Vince is probably a little jealous... especially since at one point Turner's underlings were beating Vince at his own game.

    It's funny how Vince/WWE views beating WCW as a "victory" when, in all honesty, WCW did most of the damage to itself and Vince just happened to be in a position to make a cheap offer for the intellectual property.

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  19. Theberzerker! HUSS!November 17, 2014 at 6:53 AM

    Good point about the corporate class. Look at HHH, that character was made up to poke fun at Vince's rich neighbors who always looked down their noses at him no matter how much money he had, just for being involved in rasslin'.

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  20. All it takes is watching one hour of WWE programming today to see how desperate Vince and Stephanie are for mainstream acceptance. Vince was always desperate for it, but never to this degree.

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  21. Theberzerker! HUSS!November 17, 2014 at 6:55 AM

    Yup. And that hour won't be tonight. I don't think Grumpy Cat is worth all the rage that's come up over it, but I certainly don't want to support this kind of pathetic pandering to the masses either.

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  22. Isn't there a way that they can make something like a "TNA Network" or Internet PPVs like ROH? Or weekly PPVs like in the beginning? Or they just should ask Jeff Jarrett if GFW can produce them in the USA ... LOL ;-)

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  23. I think part of what drove Vince nuts is that he felt insulted that Turner would even challenge him. There was something weirdly personal about it and there's no doubt that pettiness drove a big part.

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  24. Theberzerker! HUSS!November 17, 2014 at 6:58 AM

    I'm just not familiar enough with the politics behind it in Japan, or in Mexico really. It's not hard to imagine they're the same all over the world in this particular industry though, yeah.

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  25. It's probably also the fact that when it failed, Turner didn't give a shit. Vince bought WCW, and killed it again by accident, and in the end Turner probably didn't give it a single seconds thought. That's how much Vince means to Teddy.

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  26. Wow, I even forgot Grumpy Cat was on tonight. What a perfect example.

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  27. It does seem kind of pointless at this point, doesn't it? Why even bother anymore?

    At this point it's like Daddy Carter is just buying his daughter real-life wrestling action figures to play with.

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  28. Yessss. I could definitely see that.

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  29. Heck, Vince didn't even beat Bischoff. Eric kicked Vince's ass in the ratings for aeons, and when Vince became Eric's boss and booked him in humiliating shit... Eric got it over. He didn't take any offence to it. Because people like Eric and Ted are businessman, and Vince is still a carny at heart.

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  30. At this point, they're going to die a slow, painful death, similar to the AWA.

    The Destination America channel seems like a desperate attempt to stay on the air, given that Spike wants nothing to do with them anymore. It's prolonging the inevitable, which really stinks, since TNA was a pretty good alternative when they were really clicking.

    At this point, the PPV model would seem like a better option, and no, that wasn't praise.

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  31. I've always seen the PG-Era as Vince's last attempt to get mainstream acceptance.

    Look at it this way: WWF had two peak periods of popularity: the kid-friendly 1980s and the mature content late 1990s/early 2000s.

    The mature content era ran its course and began to turn off TV advertisers and the mainstream media with its sexual and violent content. So since that approach was used up, Vince has attempted to go back to the only other approach that made wrestling huge: the kid-friendly era.

    However, since the PG-Era isn't working as well as it did in the 1980s (likely because of the fanbase being significantly older overall than they were in the 1980s -- hell a lot of them are 1980s or 1990s fans who still watch), Vince puts it into overdrive by focusing on how much happy, happy, joy, joy charity work they do. That especially went full retard when Linda was running for Senate and was getting slammed for WWE's past sins (and we got that "Stand Up For WWE" crap).

    Vince wants his obituary to read "Vince McMahon, Beloved Media Mogul", not "Vince McMahon, Wrestling Promoter and Ass and Muscle Fetishist."

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  32. "Hey vince, guess what, I'm in the rasslin' business"
    "That's great Ted because I'm in the entertainment business."
    Did this actually happen?
    If Ted called, was he being friendly or an ass trying to needle vince?
    Does Ted really not give a $#!+ about vince?

    This purported exchange really fascinates me.
    Whether ot not it actually happened, vince's supposed reaction and how he tells it over really says a lot...

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  33. You're the worst.

    I mean that in all sincerity.

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  34. I think it was always clear that there was a market for WCW brand wrestling even after the industry boom died down a bit. That the WWE could be the mature promotion with gritty matches and rique material while WCW was the family product that wrestling had presented itself as being for decades. Goldberg being the family friendly version of a Steve Austin and so forth.


    I agree that the PG-era was another one of those stabs at mainstream credibility but it also trying to fill the void that WCW left. Only you can't really have it both ways. You can't have Hell in a Cell matches and John Cena's superhero antics. It doesn't make your brand bigger; only more niche and apologetic of the discrepancies.

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  35. I don't understand anything about what TNA does. They seem to just decide things arbitrarily. They also seem to think they're still in competition with the WWE. Like, there doesn't seem to be any long-term though applied to their business decisions. The roster already seemed like it was close to, if not smaller than, ROH's roster.


    At this point, nothing could surprise me about TNA. They could announce they have 5 people under contract and they're all going to wrestle great white sharks from now on and I'd believe it.

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  36. Well as much as I loathe Mark Madden, he has an excellent point about WCW: After WCW closed, 3 million people who used to watch wrestling weekly stopped watching. They didn't become WWE fans, they just disappeared.

    Maybe 1 million of those fans are the people watching TNA, but in general there were at least 2 million fans that preferred WCW that decided to not watch WWE once WCW was gone. You can also probably count another million or so that lost interest in WCW as it became Russo-filed in the last 2 years. That proves that there was a market for WCW-type wrestling.

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  37. I heard Dixie was planning to shut everything down, but Jeff Hardy gave her another painting and it inspired her to keep going.

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  38. Here is a question for you all: is Bischoff's non-wrestling success greater than Vince's?

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  39. The laughable thing is that Ted was the one in the entertainment business and Vince was the one in the rasslin' business. And despite how many times Vince retells the story, those facts don't change.

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  40. The great irony was that exchange, if it happened, was they were both wrong. Ted had a ton of success in all sorts of areas of entertainment & news, all detailed in the email, but his legacy in wrestling was far weaker. Vince has the opposite problem, tons of success in wrestling, far less outside of it.

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  41. At least the Turner executives knew when to pull the plug on WCW. At least Paul Heyman got to a point where even he felt bad about paying his wrestlers in I.O.U.s.

    Dixie is reaching Verne Gagne and Fritz Von Erich levels of being the guy who stays at the party long after it's over. There was a time when TNA could've been something special, but Dixie blew it by trying to be WWE instead of being unique. TNA has gone from decent to laughable, to sad, to pathetic over the last few years.

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  42. Man, some people are really dumb. First it's, TNA IS DONE TNA IS DEAD! HOORAY! Then it's, Oh TNA will live through December and that's it. Now it's, Oh look they are on a shitty new network.


    Seriously, what is with the internet's hatred towards a product that I'd say 90% of you don't even watch anymore? "Oh they screwed me in the past!" WWE does the same thing with ghosts, bunnies, and angry cats, yet you don't have that angry agenda against them. Heck, there's people here that DEFEND WWE about everything yet they don't even watch any of the shows themselves.


    Bottom line is, TNA is rumored to get a MULTI-year deal. Yes, MULTI-year. That means they won't die in 2015, 2016, etc. They are also rumored to be getting additional programming and will be the main advertised show on the new network. Again, all rumors. Who knows what is true? I think people need to quit whining about TNA and just accept the fact that they aren't going anywhere and stop worrying about their financials because it isn't your money. How's WWE's financials doing by the way? Much worse than TNA's right now.

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  43. Extant1979 - Mr. Cable AccessNovember 17, 2014 at 7:45 AM

    Vincent Kennedy McMahon and his WWE did not win the Monday Night War, they just merely survived it.

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  44. But they're anatomically correct!

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  45. Pretty much. I'm sure it's not a one-to-one relationship between Panda's gains on "not TNA" and their losses on TNA, but probably good (bad?) enough to lower their tax burden on their actual income.

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  46. Do yourself a favor and lose this obnoxious persecution complex, guy. I'm assuming you have to be a teenager or early 20's at the oldest (or else this mentality of everyone just being a hater, it's me-against-the-world with my favorite team/wrestling company/band, etc. is kinda sad), because that's the age where this stuff still matters a little too much. Trust me: you'll want t grow out of it as soon as you can.

    Anyway, I see very little of this supposedly rampant hating going on. Maybe some people are rooting for its demise but all I ever see are people commenting on (and yes, making fun of) a horribly mismanaged wrestling company.

    Going on and on about how long they're rumored to have a deal for does nothing to dispute the points made here either by the OP or Scott.

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  47. I never believed it.

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  48. I have a right to have an "angry agenda" towards WWE. I am a paying customer. I also have said multiple times that WWE's in-ring action has been its best in a very long time.


    There have been at least a hundred threads on many, many wrestling websites dissing TNA and how TNA is done. Every comment is filled with hatred or cheering for them to go under. There have been plenty on this very site. I like TNA, not as much as I used to, but it is still a very good product. I just don't like what I'm seeing in terms of smear campaigns (Meltzer's blatantly incorrect speculation on the TV deal for the last six months, locker room morale, wrestlers not being able to contact the office, Best Of shows being cancelled) all BS that has never been proven and is just pure speculation. Wrestling journalism is complete crap nowadays. No one checks sources.

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  49. I can't watch wwe anymore...I would be a huge wcw fan right now again

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  50. I think Vince aims higher, which makes a
    comparison probably unfair. If Vince wanted to make a shit TV show that airs on
    some tiny station starring Scott Baio like Eric does, I’m should be could. But
    he wants to make huge things, like Times Square restaurants, football leagues,
    space stations, networks.

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  51. (sigh)


    Enjoy watching TNA become irrelevant, as their already tiny core gets even more shaved off by the move.


    Yes, I do want that company to die. Why? They are becoming as dark a stain on the industry as a CZW or even an XPW. Not for the same reasons, thankfully, but simply because they have wasted SO MUCH over the past decade plus, so many promising careers derailed in the "get rich quick" hopes that Dixie (and whoever's enabling her) have inflicted on the wrestling world.


    Signing WWE castoffs, hiring Vince Russo MULTIPLE times, giving Hogan/Bischoff the ability to screw with the most promising talents, DESPERATELY trying to be like WWE when they don't have any (or few) of the prerequisites... one of those could easily be forgiven (other than the Russo one), but all of them together is just sad.


    WWE might be bad right now, BUT they do have the past history of being good, and being great. Maybe they don't get back there anytime soon, but they will always have that tiny benefit of the doubt, just in case. TNA has burned even getting that little benefit out, through a history of "promising, but nope, we'll fuck it up in the most painful way possible".


    And for the record, I have always said that TNA THE COMPANY needs to die. Best case is the good wrestlers still with them manage to catch on with GFW, or can make a good living between the indies and Japan... worst case is the North American scene is further crippled. But TNA's going to continue fucking with so many careers anyway, so even the latter would have been only marginally worse.


    In conclusion, fuck TNA, and may they continue to dwindle to total irrelevancy, where any damage they can do will be barely noticed.

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  52. I didn't argue that you didn't have a right to have an "angry agenda" toward WWE, though I would suggest that you re-evaluate what's worthy of anger in your life.

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  53. All Meltzer has said really is that they're done diddly done on Spike, which they were, that they were negotiating with a bunch of networks, including this one they're going to, and that talent were growing more and more concerned, which they almost certainly were. Don't hate on Meltzer!

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  54. In the A&E docu Vince acts as though he had no idea why Ted would be calling him, even though the buyout negotiations took months and months and had more false starts and stops than the death of Francisco Franco. Seriously, it made the new TNA TV negotiations look like a snap decision.

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  55. Hold that 10 for Johnny B. BadNovember 17, 2014 at 8:36 AM

    I don't want Impact "to die" in the sense that I don't want 100 or so people to lose their source of income, so here's hoping they stay afloat. That said, if they ever go the way of the buffalo, I really hope Vince buys them because I'd love to see an Impact documentary, and would love for a few guys from there to be inserted into Raw's mid-card and tag divisions. With Raw & Smackdown both giving us at least two solid, lengthy matches a show, and Main Event having one more on top of those, they could take a good thing and make it even better.

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  56. Crikey Mate Down Under AussieNovember 17, 2014 at 8:37 AM

    Agreed with you up until the last two lines.

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  57. I think WWE does at least manage to pay all it's employees on time, and hasn't had to cut their roster down to about 12 wrestlers and Spud.

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  58. The Love-Matic Grampa!November 17, 2014 at 8:38 AM

    The only thing I know about Destination America is that they've got a fat, coronary-waiting-to-happen Guy Fieri wannabe who is clearly substituting food for sexual gratification. Not exactly a step up for TNA, no matter how things are spun.

    Who knows, though, maybe being a minnow in a rain puddle will work out well for TNA.

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  59. The Love-Matic Grampa!November 17, 2014 at 8:42 AM

    I sincerely doubt that Meltzer is sitting around twirling his moustache and trying to figure out how to screw with TNA every week. Mainly because I don't think he has a moustache, but also because TNA just isn't that important. In fact, it would probably make his life easier if he didn't have to report on them at all.

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  60. How long did the WWF air on WTBS anyway? Debuted in July '84 and ended around March '85 when he sold the slot to Jim Crockett is that right?


    But in the meantime, WTBS started airing Bill Watt's Mid-Atlantic show and Ole Anderson's new bastard version of Georgia Championship Wrestling...until Crockett bought both of those promotions too?


    We need more docs on that 83-88 time period. Tons of great interesting stuff going down behind the scenes.

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  61. I can confirm that, unless he has a Movember thing going on, Dave has no moustache.

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  62. What's to get? The Carters are the biggest money marks on the planet and Dixie despite being 50 years old is just a rich daddy's girl whose somehow convinced her father to sign a lifetime of blank cheques.

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  63. In all fairness, CZW has developed some excellent wrestlers (Dean Ambrose and Adam Cole leap to mind) and has been pushing a technical renaissance lately. Biff Busiek and Drew Gulak are incredible technical wrestlers.

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  64. I've always thought McMahon was a little jealous of Turner as well. I mean, come on... He rarely ever mentions Bischoff when in reality his war was against Bischoff who had Turner's resources and backing rather than with Turner himself.

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  65. Man, Lucha Underground gets so much right that so many other minor league shows that got national TV deals got wrong.

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  66. Turner's pretty much the guy Vince aspired to be, and in this imaginary competition--the one taking place in Vince's mind--the one place Vince came out on top was in wrestling.


    And even then, once Ted sold out to AOL, he was essentially out of the day-to-day operation of Time Warner. It was AOL Time Warner that decided to pull the plug on WCW, so I'm not even sure Vince can say that he beat Ted there, either.

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  67. Regarding that last line, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    HA

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  68. Mostly right, but Bill Watts was mid south and Jim Crocket was mid Atlantic.

    Pretty sure the new Georgia championship folded.

    Not sure why tbs stopped airing mid south, but it wasn't bought until 1987.

    I'd love a full doc on mid south.

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  69. Total divas> any Bishoff show

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  70. If you guys get Destination America, do yourselves a favor and watch "Mountain Monsters." It's a show about a bunch of guys from West Virginia who go around looking for Bigfoot and the various creatures from different places. It does not disappoint.

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  71. Probably a little truth in there, but remember we're dealing with a man who's lifes work is based largely on lies. My guess is was a friendly phone call that Vince exaggerated.

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  72. I agree with most of this, but a lot of the stuff that is in overdrive is because they are a publicly traded company.

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  73. So what you're saying is Bryan Alvarez already watches the channel and doesn't need to subscribe in order to watch Impact?

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  74. He is not the only one to say that, far from it.

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  75. And, they have a new hat!

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  76. Sigh... another "Why You Gotta Be Hating On TNA?!" thread...

    By continuing to exist on TV they are--by default--the number 2 wrestling promotion in the country. That means that despite a significant portion of the wrestling fanbase having lost interest in them--if not outright hating them--they must still be subjected to them as part of the ongoing conversation (as it were). It would be one thing if they simply presented a style of wrestling some fans didn't like. You could just say "if you hate it don't watch." But they are currently the only other wrestling promotion on national television, and regardless of what the "haters" may think of them, they are 1) a company that has never been consistetently profitable, 2) cannot draw *their own fans* to non-televised cards, and 3) have regularly and repeatedly alienated their own TV audience. Arguing "WWE sux balls too!" has nothing to do with TNA's consistent failures and--again--THEIR OWN FANS abandoning them. It's not as if people aren't complaining about WWE as well regularly and loudly.

    So yes, the hatred will continue because, frankly, it's not like anyone can insist *others* not talk about TNA. You can't have it both ways. You can't go online and want to discuss the occasional good match or competent angle they do, then not want to talk about the utter trainwreck they are 99.9% of the time.

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  77. Just want to point out that Spike officials were telling everyone at Bellator that they were out of the wrestling business and that the decision had been made a long time ago. So when people in TNA were stating that negotiations with Spike were ongoing, they were either lying to their wonderful loyal fans, or they were being lied to by Dixie.

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  78. What sources? Dixie Carter & John Gaburick are pretty much the only ones who know anything and everything they tell their workers, lies and all, get reported online. Don't blame Meltzer because the company has been telling their employees "we'll have a big announcement next week!" every week for six months now.

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  79. Bischoff has a beer, Bischoff wins.

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  80. I agree. All this does is maintain the status quo of wrestling in the US right now, which most of us tend to agree is pretty abysmal. I think most people were excited about the possible demise of TNA because it meant change.

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  81. True, but he's the one I see bringing it up the most often. Don't know who originated the observation, but I'd love it to be someone other than Mark Madden so I can give someone I like much better credit.

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  82. The problem is putting on a product that looks good enough to be on national TV. They can cut the roster to the bone, only keep on the cheapest talent, but if the show looks like crap it won't survive--and that's before you get to having good matches, interesting storylines, etc. If TNA were just interested in being a wrestling promotion they could probably survive, but that's not their ambitions. They still believe that they're just a big star, hot angle, one good run away from taking off and making millions like Vince McMahon.

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  83. True, but it's been ramped up much more. WWF went public in 1999 and I don't recall this much goodwill PR crap being touted (nor the PG direction) until 2008 or so.

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  84. It's proper business not to publicly announce the status of one of your properties ahead of time that way and Spike, being run by actual business people, knew that. On their side, saying that "negotiations were ongoing" and "no comment" is what you're supposed to do.

    Dixie, on the other hand, has no business acumen and instead of lying to anyone who would listen about the Spike deal, she should have had "no comment" as well and begin working on securing a new deal elsewhere.

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  85. To be fair WWE spends a huge amount of money on NXT. I'm not sure it would be profitable enough to sustain itself if it had to. When still on TV it's ratings were in the same ballpark as TNA's. They do draw okay house show crowds though.

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  86. Everyone (rightfully) shits all over the wwe for sucking though.

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  87. Destination America? Never heard of it. Frankly it sounds made up.

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  88. The funniest thing is he jumped on the TNA wagon and even said he can see why people dislike him. He acted like he saw the light when they were down in the tubes and possibly not going to find a new deal. They sign a deal, albeit a very poor one, that shows only 50 percent of the country, and in order to find it, you have to really dig deep. Then he is back being obnoxious and rubbing in our face. And I'm sure he's going to try and rub it in my face, in spite of me never stating that they were going out of business. I just wrote an article about their Spike TV demise, which happened because, as you said, they were a HORRIBLY managed company.

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  89. This. I've been saying for months you have to look at this from the TV business perspective and not the wrestling carny viewpoint. All you have to do is look at Spike's website, Facebook, and Google articles about the network and you see that the no comment denial to the original TMZ story of TNA being cancelled was pretty much the death notice for the company. Dixie and the gang have been spinning and bullshitting ever since. If they'd just come out and confirmed they were looking for a new TV home they might actually have fans on their side. Instead they've lied to their own people, and left their most diehard fans to twist in the wind and play the "Dave Meltzer tells lies!" game.

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  90. Just go witn Micheal Hayes. He'd take credit, if you asked him. I know i saw someone say it recently. Might have been on the Monday night war.

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  91. Foreign TV contracts? I thought TNA had a few deals in place overseas. They basically need a domestic TV deal to subsidize their tapings to fulfill their contracts in the UK or wherever.

    But of course their real endgame is Dixie being a famous TV star, and the company hitting that one hot streak that will vault them to the top of the business and make them gazillionaires.

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  92. Their having a TV deal does not mean they survive. Especially if this deal isn't going to float the company half their payroll the way Spike was willing to.


    As for why people hate on them? Because it's a terrible company that's continued existence cripples any chance of a real #2 promotion being able to get off the ground. They took two of the best wrestlers of the 00's in Styles/Joe and basically burnt any appeal they could have ever had on a national level. Their delusions of grandeur outweigh Jesse Baker's.


    And they made me want to like Jeff Jarrett. They did that to me. I have hope in Jeff Fucking Jarrett. That is unforgivable.

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  93. A lot of BBQ grilling competitions and Best Roller Coasters In America type stuff

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  94. Destination America is chanel 286 on Directv for those who have that provider (which I do). The channel is just what it sounds like a ton of programs about different places in the US. Occasionally they have some cool stuff, but wrestling is def strange to be their flagship when they have no other programming near what TNA is. Maybe they will rebrand like when TNN went to Spike.

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  95. Total Divas is still wwe

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  96. Hope dangles on a string like slow spinning redemption.

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  97. The bigger problem is that they've given their fans no way whatsoever to knowingly expect what's coming next. If they knew Spike was going to boot them, they could've taken a lot of time to promote their next network, be all like "call your local cable operator and tell them you want TNA!" (well.....anyway)

    So now they're screwed because what few fans out there will know that they're switching, and even fewer will have access to the network they're on.

    It's like jumping out of a burning building straight into a Superfund site.

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  98. Gunther the Nasty LoserNovember 17, 2014 at 11:21 AM

    Should Impact be one hour or two hours?

    Should the new channel offer 2 hours since performance is TBD. Should TNA accept 1 hour since they probably don't have many options?

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  99. Gunther the Nasty LoserNovember 17, 2014 at 11:22 AM

    Vince has issues, amirite?

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  100. Well if the report is accurate they'll be given the option of MORE programming on DA.

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  101. Is the channel on Comcast?

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  102. A few years back, Turner released an autobiography. I was working retail at the time, and the store carried it, so I picked it up and thumbed through to the index to see if where the parts about WCW were. Not a mention of WCW or wrestling to be had. His career in news media and sports and TV ownership are prominently mentioned, but WCW was never even brought up in the book.


    To put it another way, think back to when Bischoff tells the story of his meeting with Turner where he got Nitro to launch. Turner clearly didn't understand wrestling; he just had a loyalty to it because it buoyed TBS back in the day, defending it when other suits wanted to jettison it. He asked Bischoff all the wrestling questions ("Why aren't we beating WWE?"), so he was clearly removed from the wrestling process.


    Other than some token appearances, wrestling was clearly a lower division for Turner. He was busy making the regrettable AOL-Time Warner deal while Bischoff was loading up Nitro with big matches.

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  103. I see a lot of great points here but for the last time, WWE did not win the Monday Night War, WWF did....

    Had this WWE been the promotion taking on WCW, not only would they have lost but they would've had TNA type numbers...

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  104. Guess this will affect the rollout of the forthcoming TNA Network that was to debut on Viewmaster...

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  105. John Cena vs. Hogan/Hall/Nash would have made Shawn Michaels' ratings look like the first season of American Idol

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  106. Charismatic eNegro Jef VinsonNovember 17, 2014 at 11:49 AM

    Afternoon, Spud!

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  107. "Yep Mode" Abeyance Brown ©November 17, 2014 at 11:49 AM

    Travel Channel for America!

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  108. Also, TNA didn't want to flat out announce that they were on Spike on borrowed time. It makes people even less willing to watch the product.

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  109. Spike might not have wanted TNA to promote their move to another network on air. I recall when Howard Stern was moving to Sirius and his station wouldn't allow Stern to say "Sirius" on air.

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  110. It's on Time Warner Brooklyn, which surprised me. I haven't checked if I get it, though.

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  111. No! It sounds perfect!

    Destination X on Destination America!

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  112. It kinda amazes me, too. Like, the people running LU didn't really have the experience to know they shouldn't make a WWE-lite program. Instead, they used the experience they have from making other TV shows to make the best, most compelling wrestling show they could and it works! It really makes TNA look stupid in comparison.

    ROH has always looked like the shoestring operation it is. They also get it right; they have good wrestlers so book them in good matches and just make that the focus rather than overwrought angles like TNA's Claire Lynch.

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  113. it was ramped up way after going public. It was a response to Benoit and to LInda's Senate run, plus an attempt to buy media goodwill As for the latter, he's not alone. Very successful companies like Target and Wal-Mart and sports leagues like the NFL are going overboard on the charity publicity too. So much so that I'm seeing a significant backlash to being constantly told how wonderful and nice these entities are.

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  114. In fairness, there are heads of cabbage that make TNA look stupid.

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  115. except that WCW wasn't family friendly. In comparison to WWF in 98 and 99? Yeah it was less risque. But during 96 WCW was actuallly the edgy one. And in 2000 WCW was filled withy viagara on a pole matches, fake boobs galore, more pot references than a cheech and chong movie, etc. Just because they said "kick you butt" instead of "ass" did not make them particulary family friendly any longer. Scott Steiner wasn't family friendly either and was a major player the last 18 months. It's a myth that WCW this nice family friendly company blocked by "the powers that be" on every "adult" word or angle they tried. It makes a nice excuse for BIschoff and Russo, but it is far from reality.

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  116. The charismatic motivator

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  117. I love how it was "just business" when he raided all the territories, paid stations to run his syndicated shows in far flung markets to run his competition out of business, told guys to join WWF without giving notice, etc. but when someone tried to compete (merely compete mind you) with WWF, they were hurting his personal "family" business. Fucking hypocrite, plain and simple.

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  118. Everyone hates it because everyone wants a thriving wrstling industry and they are nothing but an obstacle.

    Strikeforce was doing a pretty crummy job of being the number 2 Mma promotion. Strikeforce was going under and UFC bought and absorbed them. In their place, we now have Bellator, who just had an awesome show and ar going to make a huge play in 2015. MMA is gonna kick ass in 2015 with two promotions going all out. This could eventually happen in wrestling. But only if TNA just fucks off finally.

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  119. near as I can tell it's nothing but stupid ghost/supernatural shows and shit with Bigfoot. Channel 194 on Dish

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  120. repeated over and over too.

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  121. Yeah, read about Vince Sr and you can see the apple didn't fall from the tree in many ways.

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  122. Kind of pumped to see Bobby Roode fight a jobber in a salmon colored warehouse next year.

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  123. On YouTube I mean. I don't think I get the channel.

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  124. It should be zero hours.

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  125. It oddly reminds me of that "Armor Wars II" storyline where Tony is set upon by this guy, DeWitt, who talks a lot of the massive feud he and Tony have had, how Tony has kept his business down and even stole tech and goes all out from armored enemies to hitting Tony with a techno-virus. They have a final showdown, Tony beating DeWitt, tearing off his mask...and has no idea who the hell he is.
    Basically, DeWitt was so unable to accept his own failings in business, he blamed it on Tony and that built to the delusion of a massive rivalry that never existed. A lot of the time, Vince's feelings on Turner hit me the same way, Turner had so much on his plate, he barely paid that much attention to WCW yet Vince acts like it was a massive blood feud.

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  126. Said it before and say it again: The key problem with TNA is that they can be good if they take time and build things right but their obsession with becoming WWE-level right now shoots themselves in the foot every time.

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  127. I think Vince truly believes it happened, he's always struck me as a guy who can spin a bullshit story so good even he buys into it.

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  128. I'd look to see if the channel is on AT&T U-Verse but seriously, what do I care?

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  129. Do they want to be WWE-level, or just WWE?

    I mean, they put the title on Eric Young as soon as they could after Bryan won the WWE title.

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  130. I think Dixie Carter just wants to be the guest of honor at a big ceremony for TNA where people give gushing speeches about her.

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  131. I cannot believe the rejuvenation AJ is showing right now. He went from being one of the many burnt out, treading water wrestlers in TNA to one of the best in the world the day after he left.

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  132. Yeah, it's not like they ever held house shows in Canada on a regular basis anyway. Even ROH (a company that isn't on TV in Canada outside of a low rated FOX affiliate in Buffalo that can be seen in part of Ontario) is in Canada more frequently than TNA.

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  133. Crikey Mate Down Under AussieNovember 17, 2014 at 12:45 PM

    Agreed. So the network numbers are underwhelming, the WWE still makes profit, just less profit then they'd like.

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  134. I really don't think they are a good tax write-off because normally those businesses don't complain about the amount of money lost by a tax write-off whereas according to Jerry Jarrett, when he was involved in TNA, Bob Carter was constantly complaining about the amount of money TNA was losing and Jerry finally had to tell him "You need to talk to your daughter about that, I'm not in charge of the company's finances".

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  135. WCW had several mulityear international TV deals in 2001 yet they still went under.
    The AWA and World Class both had great ratings on ESPN (even at the end of their runs) but those strong ratings still didn't keep those two companies from going under. Just saying.

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  136. I'd rather watch a show about Monster Mountains

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  137. CruelConnectionNumber2November 17, 2014 at 1:27 PM

    Channel 113 for me. I wouldn't watch crappy TNA either way.

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  138. One more thought that occurred to me...ROH is now on almost as many stations as TNA will be and makes money off its house shows. ROH, the company that basically has the budget of an inner city school district....

    CZW is currently the second oldest wrestling promotion in the US and turns a profit almost exclusively running shoes in the North Atlantic area.

    Neither company is pretending to be in the same league as WWE, but they both have been successful spending a fraction of the money of TNA. And I want TNA to succeed...I want motivated versions of Joe, Aries, the Wolves, Low Ki, etc all performing and making money. It's very frustrating to watch.

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  139. I might actually watch their first show on a new network just to see. Could be fun. Could be disastrous.

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  140. Turner has not owned the Braves for a while now

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  141. This is complete bullshit. TNA doesn't affect anyone getting a TV deal.


    WWE and their bullshit programming is pretty much the only thing that will affect other promotions "getting off the ground".


    The real answer you're looking for is "it's cool to hate TNA". At least live up to your lack of original thought.

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  142. TNA isn't an obstacle to anything. I don't even watch them any more, but this is bullshit to the 50th power that people say just to pretend they have a reason to hate a wrestling Fed.

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  143. There's a huge difference to shit on a company for sucking, and the strange hatred that people seem to have for TNA.


    You see a comment about the crap WWE puts out, and it's "I hope they get better, because they're putting on crap now"


    You see a comment about TNA putting on crap, it's "I hope TNA DIES!!!"


    It's ridiculous hatred for a company that has literally done nothing to any of the little troll children who spout it (because they can't come up with an original thought)

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  144. He has enough to fulfill many subscriptions.

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  145. What does it say about the rise of TBS? That really can't be told without wrestling.

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  146. No, and fuck you.


    WWE's not helping anyone with their idiocy, but there simply IS NOT ENOUGH TALENT AROUND for some third (fourth if you count ROH) promotion to get a TV deal that would go past the nuclear blast range if someone dropped a bomb on their TV HQ.


    TNA going away, permanently, would free up just enough talent that with a decent eye evaluating what's available, and a small infusion from the fairly bare indies, could justify a decent TV deal. It might suck for the first year or two, but as long as they didn't pull a WCW 3.0/TNA 2.0, the growth potential would exist.


    TNA blew that potential MULTIPLE TIMES, and has fucked up several promising careers. See: AJ Styles, who's had a renaissance over in Japan.

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  147. It is weird that so many of you care this much about a company you don't watch.

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  148. Again, WWE HAS THE HISTORY of being good/great, while TNA's history is a graveyard of "might have beens" and "never had a fucking chances". THAT'S why I would not mourn their passing, and why something like GFW could get a chance from me... even though GFW is run by TNA's original boss, with all the potential shit that entails.

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  149. although one could argue so far lack of talent has never been the biggest problem (even/also not in the other mentioned already dead promotions).

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  150. It makes sense when you consider that a company we *may* want to watch can't exist really until this one finally dies.

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  151. This movement is straight out of the SSW playbook.

    I can only conclude that Dixie has also found Jesus.

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  152. In "Companies Whose TV Deal Doesn't Go Past The Nuclear Blast Zone", I present Exhibit A.

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  153. "Heck, there's people here that DEFEND WWE about everything yet they don't even watch any of the shows themselves."

    Gosh I wonder who this is referring to?

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  154. "How's WWE's financials doing by the way? Much worse than TNA's right now."

    ...slow down.

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  155. Actually, they totally affect any wrestling company getting a TV deal because they represent such a horrible example of what a television company would have to do to prop a wrestling company up. They exist as a giant red flag to any potential network that may be interested in live original programming. People that actually work in this industry keep track of things like that, cunty boy.




    The real answer you're looking for is "you don't actually know a fucking thing about marketing or television."

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  156. Dude.


    Armor Wars II !!!


    You're my new favorite poster!

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  157. That last line made me choke on my drink.

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  158. 668 in HD, Verizon FiOS. Niiiiice.

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  159. Complainers gotta complain

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  160. I'm pretty sure Hayes would take credit for any halfway smart statement.

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  161. you're right about later WCW, but in 1996 it was family friendly. it was only "edgy" in terms of "realism" not in terms of profanity, sexual content etc.

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  162. The greatest irony about Vince McMahon complaining about Ted Turner is that he did to Verne Gagne and Crockett what Bischoff using Turner's money tried to do to him. Running Nitro against Raw seemed unfair until you remember that Vince sabotaged Starrcade 87 by running Survivor Series (and demanding exclusivity from the PPV providers) and then running the free Royal Rumble 1988 against the Bunkhouse Stampede. I think McMahon's resentment is because he's a narcissist and he came close to going under in 1996

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  163. sidenote: the one thing that "bothers" me about this mail is the mention of the Network as something that's in a different field than the WWE.


    because I think that's the main difference to his other "ventures" (and also one of the reasons why I am actually more disappointed that so far it seems to be a failure, too): in contrast to his other ideas (Hollywood movies, a football league) the Network is pretty much a wrestling channel for wrestling fans.



    is it an ambitious extension of their core business? of course. but it's still directly linked to what the company is actually about and really sticking to what they are capable of doing - wrestling shows. that's why I wouldn't put it into the same category as his past failures.

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  164. It's pretty rare for people to dislike things for no reason, sir. I don't think people are pretending, whether you agree with them or not.

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  165. It's all one business: A business with a history of talent moving from company to company. Most fans who become invested in it eventually look beyond the one promotion that wrestles in their area, or that they can see on TV.

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  166. So what's the over/under on the news tomorrow being "talk of any new TV deal is premature," and "Destination America is just one of a handful of networks TNA has talked to"?

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  167. Here's an insane CZW stat; since the company's inception in early 99 their top title lineage is unbroken. It's NEVER been vacated.

    That's just crazy to me.

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  168. I've never gotten into TNA due to all the good indy feds that have sprouted up over the years.

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  169. The "get but don't watch" part isn't really a problem. Probably 3/4 of the stations I only watch for 1 or 2 shows and couldn't tell you a thing about whatever other crap they air. CW? Who the fuck knows other than Flash and Arrow. Same for Spike and USA.

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  170. Christ, Vince was doing that shit to the others in the mid-80s. The AWA was only the biggest target of his bullshit, but Vince went around the whole country buying up the territories' timeslots and replacing them with his stuff.


    And the PPV stuff was a major "Fuck You", one he had the balls AND the success to back up. +1 for that, -1 for being a fucking scumbag, and -1 for the PPV providers only whining when Crockett fired back and (may have) fucked WM4 over with Clash 1.


    I say "may have" because the PPV providers were going off of a wildly successful WM3, and hoping the larger PPV base would have translated to the same buyrate for WM4.

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  171. That is kinda wacky. Title vacations infuriate me, I wish this could be said about a promotion I may have the intention to watch...

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  172. Are you talking about boobies? I think he's talking about boobies.

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  173. Well you can't help injuries. But assuming you mean ROH, yeah they did break their title lineage for storyline purposes only.

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  174. Yeah, you're right. You don't actually know a fucking thing about marketing on television. Thanks for helping with that.

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  175. Nah, I'm not into dudes. Not that there's anything wrong with your life choices.


    So then, is TNA the problem, or would ROH or WWE going away fix the issue as well? Sounds like them going away would fix the problem just as well as TNA going away. Because according to you, there's not any other talent outside of those 3 promotions that can be used for a fourth promotion, and having Bram and EC3 as free agents would suddenly make wrestling well again.


    And, if TNA "fucked up his career", then AJ Styles wouldn't be having any sort of renaissance, would he? Because TNA irrevocably fucked up his career! (Which you said in one sentence, and then talk about how they DIDN'T completely fuck up his career in the next).


    Does talking in contradictions come naturally to you, or do you practice -- maybe take an at home course in "Repeating the IWC Line by Professor Jim Cornette"? I'm sure you aced it.


    But, I wouldn't expect logic to fit into whatever "follow the pack" mentality that you've conjured in your tiny little brain. So, yes, you're right. TNA going away would fix all of wrestling.

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  176. Let's be fair...WWE Films is doing MUCH better than anyone could have guessed. Personally when I heard about it I thought it was a joke. But they have had some semi major theatrical releases that made their money back and even turned a (modest) profit. If this were the 90s I suspect they would be non-exisitent by now, these days a film that is not produced by the major studios will very rarely even get theatrical releases, let alone ANY profit. Don't misunderstand, not saying they are great movies (though I think I saw one recently that was pretty good. For some reason thinking Annabelle but pretty sure it isn't)

    Two things to consider. 1) Direct to DVD isn't the curse is was even 10 years ago. In fact VOD has been a very successful release for many great movies that I wouldn't have seen otherwise (Pontypool - which was the best horror movie I've seen in forever. American Mary is another) 2) My understanding is, particularly these days, the McMahons have almost nothing to do with WWE films. WWE films is a producer (in the financial sense) and distributor almost 85% of the time. So aside from the name of the company, its not that bad.

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  177. Scumbag might be strong...the dude is a businessman. A top businessman. That tends to attract a certain personality. I'd say most guys operating at even half his level are just as big scumbags. Really at the end of the day its about PR.

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  178. Not sure it happened, though it could have. Sounds more like Ted joking around and trying to bridge/connect with Vince than being a dick, but really who knows other than Ted? (Maybe Jane)

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  179. Risque does not equal mature. Its a distinction many mistake.

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  180. Maybe that's why we're getting so many distraction finishes on RAW. It's a metaphor for WCW getting distracted by financial problems and corporate decisions, allowing Vince to roll them up for the three count. Vince sees this as a perfectly gallant method of victory.

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  181. Guys, this isn't just business, its the wrestling business. We're talking about something that's very foundation is smoke and mirrors. Wrestling is all about making you believe what you're seeing versus the reality of what you're seeing. Why are any of you surprised by disingenuousness here?

    Reminds me of a scene in Wolf of Wall Street where they discuss how stocks work. Its all a scam. The economy in and of itself is a scam. Things are only worth what you think they are worth. Their only value as products is the value you place on them. Its why Tom Cruise is the biggest, yet dullest, actor on earth. Perception > reality. Where's the surprise here?

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  182. I think this is all just an elaborate ploy to make Dixie a cast member on Survivor.

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  183. Also held more shows in the "ECW" arena than anyother company.

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  184. I bought TNA DVD's, I bought TNA shirts, I went to TNA live events, I watched TNA impact from the wrestling channel to Bravo to ChallengeTV, AJ vs Joe vs Daniels is still one of my favourite matches of all time.

    I don't watch TNA because it refused to build on what it had in attempts at taking misguided shortcuts. TNA always had its best moments showcasing young and athletic talent but they always shoved that aside to push people to make them look like the company most of us wanted an alternative to. Joe's push ended in Kurt getting a win he didn't need, AJ was relegated to exclusively wrestling Daniels, Aries got pushed aside for Jeff and the fucking awful Aces and 8's storyline to nowhere, the booking of their big Monday night show, I could list the mistakes all day.

    Fact is I love wrestling and if I can't even bother to record a free show

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  185. Online source confirms Meltzer has no moustache, but he may have discussed getting a moustache and it's not out of the realms of possibility that a full beard gas been considered.

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  186. Don't forget Cesaro.

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  187. Part of me is thinking about how ChallengeTV in the UK is forming a better relationship with British wrestling and, if TNA goes under, what the possibility of them using that time and money to put a homegrown promotion on TV regularly.

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  188. I'm not defending TNA's stupidity. I don't watch them either, since about 2013 (when I finally gave up on them). I've bought their shows, their DVDs, and even subscribed to their VOD service when they had it (until I realized that it depressed me a good deal, because with it you could easily see how good they were capable of being).


    However, there's a far cry from "I don't like them. I don't watch them." to the "I wish they'd DIE!!!" crap that a good portion of the IWC spouts. There's some weird sort of group-think hatred that too many of these people scream that I find ridiculous. THAT'S what I have a problem with (and the incessant bullshit about "TNA existing stops another fed from getting TV" which we already know is wrong because ROH. Since all of these brainiacs seem to think TNA on Spike was an issue, I fully expect with them scaling back, another Fed will immediately jump up and get a good TV deal now. I mean, according to them, TNA being on Spike was what was holding other feds down all these years)

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  189. Oculus, it had some buzz (i.e. people talked about it as a potential movie to watch and they seemed legitimately interested) but horror fans will watch any crap.


    I also saw it get legitimate billboard/bus stop advertisement treatment, so it had enough momentum to get semi-serious promotion.

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  190. This whole Vince/Turner thing reminds me soooooooooooooo much of Triple H/Rock.

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  191. What wrong with that though? Wrestling helped his TBS and he felt loyalty. At least he wasn't trying to book matches.

    Also, mirin' his ability to see into the future "Why aren't we beating WWE?"

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  192. Wife wise, yes. Been a few years, but first time I ever saw a pic of his wife I had a chubber for weeks on end.

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