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WWF Saturday Night's Main Event January 3rd, 1987

January 3, 1987

From the Civic Center in Hartford, CT.

Your hosts are Jesse Ventura and Vince McMahon

Matches tonight include Paul Orndorff vs. Hulk Hogan in a Steel Cage Match for the WWF World Heavyweight Championship, Adrian Adonis vs. Roddy Piper, George Steele vs. Randy Savage for the WWF Intercontinental Championship, and King Harley Race vs. Junkyard Dog.




WWF World Heavyweight Championship Steel Cage Match
"Mr. Wonderful" Paul Orndorff w/ Bobby Heenan vs. Hulk Hogan (Championship)

Before the match Vince flips out because Danny Davis is the referee. Orndorff attacks Hogan before the bell then drops a few elbows. Orndorff tries to escape but Hogan grabs his leg as Vince tells us that Davis shouldn't even be the referee here as Joey Marella is here and listed as the official for the match. Orndorff almost climbs out of the cage but Hogan grabs him by the hair as Jesse jokes how Hogan would not be the champion right now if Orndorff was bald. Hogan stays in control then tries to climb out but Orndorff yanks him down then hammers away. The crowd chants for Hogan as Orndorff is stomping away. Orndorff misses a pair of elbow drops then Hogan hulks right up and fights back. Orndorff prevents Hogan from going through the door then is able to go back on offense. Then in a goofy-looking spot, both guys slam each other's head off of the cage. They slowly get up and climb up opposite sides of the cage and both jump down as Hogan is declared the winner by Marella but Davis says that Orndorff was the winner. Davis then knocks Marella down so Hogan takes him out then Finkel lets us know that it was a "tie" as they both have to go back in and finish the match. Orndorff roughs up Hogan then rolls him back inside as Davis is carried to the back. Orndorff fires away but Hogan hulks up then chops away. Hogan rams Orndorff into the cage then hits a backbreaker before the leg drop. Heenan runs into the cage and distracts Hogan enough to let Orndorff get up but Hogan stops that then whips Heenan into the cage and climbs out of the cage before Orndorff can get through the door for the win (10:42) **3/4. Hogan gets back into the cage after the match and goes after Heenan as Jesse rags on Hogan. They then show the replay of the "tie" as Jesse tries to explain that Orndorff won because Hogan's legs were bent when they hit the floor.

Thoughts: Good match. These two had solid chemistry in the ring and the way this ended could have been used to prolong the feud (Heenan goes to Tunney and gets a rematch or something like that). However, this ended up being the end of the Hogan/Orndorff feud as he would wrestle Kamala at house shows for a bit then get a new feud very shortly after this.



WWF Intercontinental Title Match
George "The Animal" Steele vs. "Macho Man" Randy Savage (Champion) w/ Elizabeth

Before the match we get a promo from Savage as he yells at Elizabeth to shut up before he "slaps her and pushes her against the wall." Is that line edited on the Network? Steele also promises us a surprise during the match. This match is the result of Steele's infatuation with Elizabeth, something that has been going on for about a year at this point. Before the match Steele gives Elizabeth his action figure as Savage flips out and takes it from her. Steele then attacks Savage and slams him down but goes to the corner and appears to wave someone on but Savage yanks him down. Savage then goes to climb up top but Ricky Steamboat's music hits as he comes out to the ring. Savage is beside himself then gets tossed to the floor. Steele then goes outside and picks up Elizabeth and carries her up the aisle. Savage sees this and is out of his mind but Steamboat stands in his way and he stays in the ring. Steamboat tries to enter the ring but a few officials try to stop him as he breaks free. Steamboat gets escorted to the back by the police as Steele comes back without Elizabeth and beats on Savage. Steele bites open the turnbuckle and throws it in Savage's face. Savage comes back and beats on Steele in the corner but Steele returns the favor then starts to bite Savage. Steele gets kicked a few times but is able to bite Savage's arm. Steele then pulls a foreign object out of his trunks and uses it to knock Savage out of the ring. Steele then pushes down the ref after he tried to search him but Savage grabs the timekeeper's bell and uses it to whack Steele in the back of the head then covers for the win (8:30) *1/2. Savage tries to attack Steele some more but Steamboat runs down and chases Savage away.

Thoughts: They used a lot of smoke and mirrors here and it worked about as well as you could have hoped for anyway. Steamboat's return was huge and a great surprise. They also managed to keep two storylines going in this match.



King Harley Race w/ Bobby Heenan vs. Junkyard Dog

Again, Vince flips out because Davis is the referee for this match. Race punches JYD down then drops an elbow as Vince says it happened because Davis distracted JYD. Race hits a high knee smash then gets two with a knee drop but JYD gets up and fights back. Race goes shoulder first into the post but comes back with an eye rake. He hits a belly-to-belly suplex then tries a headbutt but JYD no-sells that then hits a few of his own then takes Race out of the ring. JYD then grabs Race's robe and crown and puts it on as the fans applaud. Vince yells at Davis for not counting out Race as Heenan tries to attack JYD but that fails. JYD knocks Heenan down, who comically oversells the punch, then picks him up again but Race hits him from behind with a top rope elbow smash. Race hits a pair of elbow drops then the bell rings as JYD won by disqualification (6:00) 1/2*. After the match, Race and Heenan attack JYD but that fails as JYD chases them away. Davis tries to stop JYD but gets knocked down with a headbutt.

Thoughts: Very slow and dull match as Race's methodical style was passe and JYD was abysmal in the ring at this point. Their feud, which started over JYD saying he would refuse to bow down to Race, would continue.



We see a clip of Heenan and Orndorff backstage. Heenan tells Orndorff that he saw the video replay and saw that he hit the floor before Hogan and will prove that he is the champion and go to Jack Tunney to straighten it out. Heenan kept calling Orndorff "champ." We are shown the replay again as Jesse tells us that the tape is doctored.



"Adorable" Adrian Adonis w/ Jimmy Hart vs. Roddy Piper

Piper tosses his kilt at Adonis's face then backs him into the corner. Piper takes him down with a knee lift as the kilt remains over Adonis' face. Adonis bumps like a maniac for Piper then comes back with an eye rake. He then rakes Piper's back but gets knocked down. Piper slams Adonis' face off of the mat then Adonis comes back with the Good Night Irene but Piper takes them both through the ropes and they brawl. Adonis gets free and squirts his fragrance in the eyes of Piper then rolls inside and wins by count out as Piper could not see where he was (3:35) *. After the match Piper flips out as a few referees eventually calm him down to wipe his face.

Thoughts: Decent for while it lasted but it was just a short match to keep their feud going. Adonis was really, really big here. He could at least go in the ring though.



Okerlund is backstage with Hogan in the locker room. Hogan says that he won the match and will move on to other challengers. Okay then.



Jimmy Jack Funk vs. Blackjack Mulligan

This is billed as the "Battle of Texas." Vince lets us know that Elizabeth is unharmed. Funk makes the referee order Mulligan to take off his spurs before the match. Funk lands a few shots but gets whipped into the corner then tossed to the floor as we get an awful insert promo from Mulligan as he is interviewed by Okerlund. He just rambled on and on using every single lame cliche about Texas. Mulligan beats on Funk in the corner before putting him away with a jumping back elbow smash (2:31) 1/4*. After the match, Mulligan tries to hang Funk with his rope but he was able to escape.

Thoughts: Just filler, really. I'll never get why they tried to push Mulligan here. All of this build was wasted.



Final Thoughts: As a stand alone show, it wasnt much, but in the grand scheme of things this advanced a lot of storylines and the first ever steel cage match on Network TV was really cool to see,especially since it was a title match, so this was a good show overall that looks even better in hindsight as it laid the foundation for three WrestleMania matches. The WWF had a really good product at this time that was fun to watch.

Comments

  1. Are you done with ROH reviews?

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  2. That's possible. I might also be biased a bit by my own experiences - I've known many HHHs and just as many CM Punks and with the exclusion of 2 notable occurences out of...well, waaaaaay more than 2...the HHHs honestly found the CM Punks more of an annoyance than something that really got under their skin.


    But that is the corporate world and this is wrestling, insecurity when you're at the top seems to be the name of the game (Austin, Hogan, Savage, Warrior, Flair, HHH, Punk, etc. etc.). Sure, there are exceptions like Race, Sammartino, Backlund, Cena.but there certainly aren't *many*.
    It's probably a case of two insecure dudes having a pissing content with one only marginally less insecure than the other.

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  3. Miz is the last man standing...

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  4. Oh it's not between the lines: Punk flat-out says they not only underpaid him, but they also cut off attempts by himself to earn more. He was pretty clear about it. But he also makes clear that in that last year it wasn't about the money. By then he was bending backwards to earn that WrestleMania main event, and he admits he was dumb to keep doing what they wanted to earn that spot. And near the very end it wasn't even about that anymore: it was about being sick and hurt and him realizing that they just didn't give a shit about him; and with Vince being out of touch & Hunter being Hunter, well it was time to go.

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  5. Mania 29's card really is an example of WWE misusing lots of potentially valuable assets.
    - Rock is totally misused by being used in A) A rematch, and B) A match with a foregone conclusion result that is a result that the fan base doesn't want to see. Why are people going to pay to see Rock not only in a retread match, but a match in which it's obvious he's going to lose to a significantly less popular/cool opponent? Rock/Cena 1 was an awesome original occurrence with a finish that was unpredictable and a feud built around something (Rock shutting up cent) that fans wanted to see happen. Mania 29 was the opposite of that, and it dampened Rock's drawing power as a result.


    - Taker's streak is completely misused because the entire build was "Taker's gonna kill this fucking loser." The result was never in doubt (a major change from the previous 4 streak matches, which were all built around Taker's opponent as a legit threat) which kills off the drawing power of a Streak match. The build was standard B-PPV "monster face is gonna kill hapless loser heel". What's the point of that?


    - Lesnar was being used in a rematch to a match that sucked pretty bad the first time. Plus it was built around another obvious finish that fans weren't clamoring for. Was baby face conqueror HHH in 2013 really a draw worthy of Brock Lesnar's Mania match? Total waste of Brock here.


    - And of course Punk is totally wasted here. Why build something as intriguing as Punk's title streak, let it get so hot (and by Fall 2012 the streak was a pretty goddamn hot angle) and then blow it off RIGHT before Wrestlemania. That's the kind of angle you build to be a major draw at Mania! Instead they completely kill Punk's heat and send him into the Taker match as "Pussy Heel #39" rather than as a major star with an insanely hot gimmick behind him.

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  6. It'll be longer than Jericho's move list.

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  7. Only problem with this is you need Doc Brown and a DeLorean to change it ....

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  8. Well Punk did say Vince had tears in his eyes when they shook hands after Punk said he was leaving.

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  9. Do you think Montreal is a work too?

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  10. Wrong briefcase though. And they were real sticklers to that for some reason (outside the first cash in).

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  11. If he is Vince's avatar he would win.

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  12. Shit yea, you're right. Cena had cashed his in last summer

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  13. That is a great point about doing Punk and Cena at 30. It's not like that Bray Wyatt match meant anything.

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  14. No but even that was questioned for many years if it was a work or not...

    The reason I say this is because of the timing of stuff coming out and the fact his wife still works there. Also that came right after SS where she was booked as if she was on the way out when obviously she wasnt...

    I think Punk is too smart and calculating to jeopardize the dreams of his wife. Perhaps Im wrong, more than likely I am, but something just seems off...

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  15. It's funny that Jericho considers Punk a close friend, because based on Punk's tone it sounded like he wants nothing to do with Jericho, even outside the confines of wrestling.

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  16. And Punk wouldn't hafta list the same Diva twice!

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  17. I think part of it was Punk growing up a wrestling fan and main eventing Wrestlemania being something of a dream of his. I don't think it was entirely about the money, it's just something he wanted to say he did, he beat himself up to do it and when he realized it wasn't going to happen and moved on.

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  18. I mean, Punk's popped up on ESPN, AMC, and a bunch of other entertainment shit over the last few years as regularly as Cena has. He just hasn't done the movies and isn't as into charity work. But that could also be because he was never offered a movie and WWE didn't publicize what charity work he does. I used to see people wearing CM Punk merch pretty regularly in the city I live in. Can't say the same about Cena. I'd say that gap isn't as wide as you think, and it's probably more reflective of WWE propaganda than anything else.

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  19. I very much doubt it. Punk is a guy who plays his cards very close to his chest and by many accounts doesn't like to chit chat with the boys. He also mentioned he went straight to Vince and HHH for most matters so it's very unlikely anyone else would've known what Punk was thinking.

    The only thing I would imagine getting out was Punk's injuries but even then the doctors would honor the patient confidentiality agreement and not reveal anything.

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  20. Sid was a legit star in his era and continued to main event after his Wrestlemania match. The rest all peaked with that match and then basically dropped off the face off the Earth except Miz.

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  21. The sad thing about the wrestling business is that Vince is so stubborn that even if he had access to a time machine, I doubt he'd change much.

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  22. WWE is gonna use this to pop a rating on Raw by playing Punk's music at open.

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  23. No, Sid pretty much peaked at WM. Sure he got a main event run in WCW, but it was a run no-one wanted to see.

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  24. They'll probably get AJ to make out with Ryback as HHH faps to it in the background.

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  25. That would be awesome..

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  26. So you acknowledge the crux of my argument, that Sid continued to main event after his Mania match, is correct, but then base your counter-point on a purely subjective observation that can't be argued as being right or wrong because of its basis in subjectivity? I mean, suuuuure. Why not?

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  27. Vince: "I wonder how many of those GLOW broads I can bang?"


    That's the extent of how Vince would use time travel.

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  28. They probably lost the rights to play that song, and likely won't pony up for them again to get one last cheap pop.

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  29. Man, if Punk's angry about that main event he's really not gonna be happy when he realizes he didn't even make this year's Top 10 in the PWI 500.

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  30. Well, I wasn't talking about how he was booked. Anyone can be booked to be a main eventer depending how dickish the booker is feeling, but Sid's prime years in terms of his popularity/success was during his 96-97 WWF run.

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  31. What dreams of his wife? What else does she have left to accomplish in WWE, headline Wrestlemania?

    And it's not the stone ages anymore. AJ and Punk are two different people, and are treated by WWE as such.

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  32. But would either guy agree to putting on all that blue body paint?

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  33. I don't really see how we can accurately assess that. WCW during Sid's run in '99 and '00 had ratings and buy rates that were higher than his WWF run. There's no way of measuring a difference in his popularity between those two points. Again, you're basing your argument on personal observation.

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  34. Easy for you to say; you don't have Vince calling you up at four in the morning.

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  35. YES it's a LOCK! I walked y a newsstand and almost bought the issue...but I didn't.

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  36. Stone age?! This is Vince and HHH we are talking about. And Im sure AJ isnt ready to just retire at the ripe old age of 27...

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  37. "Jericho said he'll explain more on his podcast this Wednesday" this is probably the kind of thing Punk was talking about

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  38. No, it was pretty much the general IWC consensus too. And I don't have numbers on hand, but I think Sid was drawing in the 0.2-3 range in 99-00 period so he drew more money in WWF. I'm not blaming Sid on that, just because the WCW brand was so tarnished that no-one could draw at that point, but really Sid's peak had gone as he wasn't drawing the same pops he use to draw either. Just check out any 96 Sid match and the roof would blow off when he came out. Sid hadn't managed to draw the same type of reaction since.

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  39. "Yay CM Punk name dropped me. I can talk about on my podcast to get hits!"

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  40. It's precisely because CM Punk is her husband that there will always be a magnifying glass on her treatment. AJ is unfuckable.

    As for retiring at 27...yeah, I'm sure that taking bumps with that skeleton body never gets old. Living the dream!

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  41. I like Punk as much as anyone but the timing was awful for him to be in the main at Wrestlemania 29. That said they're absolutely nuts if they were really gonna go with Orton/Batista this year buf Punk was obviously too hurt to do a proper main event at WM30 even if he stayed. I really think the timing is bad because he'd be a pretty good name to toss in the hat as the guy to beat Brock this year had all that not gone down. Then again if HHH hated him as he says maybe its for the best.

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  42. Montreal was worked in the sense that Shawn knew about it. How long till that came out?

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  43. Who wins? If taker wins wouldnt it have been another part timer winning the title when someone WHO WILL BE AT WORK THE NEXT DAY could have

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  44. Eh... No one said that the triple threat between Rock/Cena/Punk had to be elimination. The idea is that it would have been a three-way to the very end. They could have even had Punk laid out for the last five or six minutes or so just so Cena and Rock could still settle things one-on-one for the conclusion of the match.


    I see why they went with Rock/Cena II, but the triple threat would have been much better and would have still made sense storywise.

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  45. Dont underestimate Wwe's pettyness

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  46. Im not so sure abour that. Bryan was red hot at the time, hotter than punk. The yes movement was in full effect. Anything other than him wouldve been a dissapointment. Reigns only got cheered because there was no one left besides batista. If it were Miz they wouldve have cheered him as well.

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  47. MikeyMike, WitnessDecember 1, 2014 at 4:40 AM

    Legit lol

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  48. Yes ... and any time someone defends H about how he puts guys over - just remember 2002-2004 HHH set back the careers of Booker T, Rob Van Dam, Bubba Ray Dudley, Scott Steiner, and even Chris Jericho and Randy Orton by about three years. Goldberg still had money as a draw and he got killed. Even when he put Benoit over, who was champ six months later?

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  49. Yeah, tell me about it. It damn sure ain't from eatin' the food at this joint.-Cletus Snow

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  50. No. With the move I was unable to finish the "Do or Die" show but now I am done and will be able to continue with them. They will resume on Saturday nights.

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  51. I think Bryan/Punk would work as a Mania main event, so long as we got other main-event level Taker/Cena/Rock matches beforehand. Great point about the hypothetical three-way though - and who's to even say Punk would have been OK with being jobbed out in 5 mins? It's easy to claim he'd be fine with it now

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  52. Just had a thought - imagine if straight edge Punk was around in the 80s/90s WWE locker room? He'd have been fucked with so badly. Protein shake spike city

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  53. I think people need to get over this obsessive need to rebook a PPV that did over a million buys. It's done, it's in the history books, it made a huge profit, LET'S MOVE ON. :)

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  54. She was 30, 3 months from turning 31.

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  55. Punk-Bryan at MITB to unify the belts.

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  56. Other than the creepy stuff with Mysterio (Happy Birthday, mainly), did the SES EVER have any heat from their in-ring actions?


    Mysterio never lost to Punk IIRC, Show definitely never lost, was SES around during Punk-Hardy?

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  57. Well, there was the story about Punk being "offered" a movie role (Marine 2, IIRC), and right before he could accept it got shifted to Orton.

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  58. Or they could just fantasy rebook a PPV since they're on a wrestling blog. I think that would be fine.

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  59. 18: Had a chance to be great, until the two bitches pretty much fucked the buildup. HHH-Jericho in something OTHER than a fucking Jerry Springer feud might be remembered more fondly, even if Rock-Hogan stlll kills it.


    25: Orton wins cleanly. And someone else lays the match out. That's literally the only changes I make to that match.

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  60. He was right in winning 18, just with the wrong feud emphasis. Two bitches = one disaster.


    He was decidedly WRONG in winning 25, that was Orton's real shot at top-tier. Sure he's a "main eventer", but I doubt anyone will remember him as a "legend" in the end.

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  61. Yeah, Vince seems to think this is WWEMecca. (which doesn't exist, get on it Vince!)

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  62. It's one thing to fantasy rebook a PPV for fun, but another to obsess over it and lose sleep over it. And yes, I do think some of you do, by the way you react to it. Let's focus on WM 31 instead, Brock/Reigns, baby!!

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  63. Oh yes, Roman Reigns! That buyrate-popping machine!

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  64. Day after WM31 headlines:

    "WWE Network Rockets Over 1 Billion Subs!"
    "Roman Reigns in #1, #2, and #3 Movies! Decides To Remain Sports Entertainer!"
    "Wrestlemania 32 Moved To New Million Seat Stadium, Sells Out In Less Than An Hour!"


    -Wet Dreams Of Two Vinces.

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  65. CM Punk: "I'm not saying Reigns was in the WM main event because of me, but I'm not saying it wasn't because of me either"

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  66. I don't like Cena the person all that much.

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  67. I actually think the crowd would have literally exploded at that point.

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  68. Hey, gotta give new starz a shot, amirite?? (but seriously, i'd be 100% fine with Ambrose or a healthy Daniel Bryan in that spot too). I just hope Brock beats Cena at the Rumble to really solidify himself as the absolute best, then puts someone over at WM.

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  69. Depends on your definition of "obsession."


    If you mean:
    - Get on your computer/phone/tablet and decide to state your opinion on a blog, and continually mention it because you believe it, but then get off your computer and continue to live your life. Okay.


    Or do you mean:
    Get on your computer/phone/tablet and decide to state your opinion on a blog, and continually mention it because you believe it, and then cut yourself to feel, and create "Daniel Bryan was buried!" t-shirts on Cafe Press while screaming "It's still real to me, damn it!"......meh, not so much.



    I don't really see the problem with option A.

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  70. MikeyMike, WitnessDecember 1, 2014 at 6:43 AM

    He became embarrassing looking in 2003. When he came back in 2007 he looked like a person.

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  71. Yeah, the moment I saw HHH at Summerslam I thought, "I bet he's off the gas. Look! He has actual love-handles!"

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  72. Option A sounds good, yep!! As long as one's blood pressure doesn't skyrocket mid-paragraph, followed by throwing said tablet/phone on the wall after pressing "post" cause you're so riled up! But I won't mention any names. :)



    (and I'll say it again, the name change helps a lot! )

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  73. I would highly doubt anyone does that.


    (You're welcome.)

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  74. Yeah I'm so down for Bryan/Brock. I want to back Reigns but I'm just so far from sold on him yet....

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  75. My only worry is, Maybe Daniel could be cleared for let's say, light action, like wrestle short and specifically safe matches... But can he get manhandled and get suplexed 18 times by Brock in a 25 minute match? Big difference, I don't want him to get right back on the injury list.

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  76. What i got from Punk's podcast is that, while i do side with him for the most part and also feel he should've main evented a Wrestlemania (starting with WM 27) i don't think he's realizing he's accomplished WAY more than what he gives himself credit for. He's won multiple titles, was consistently over, been a part of hot angles, sold a shit ton of merch, etc. And what he's forgetting is that in many cases facing the Undertaker at Wrestlemania is just as important (and in some cases more important) than being in the main event itself, since the streak was basically the main selling point. Most wrestlers these days wouldn't be able to get a fraction of the opportunities Punk was given.

    I'm really happy for Punk and glad to hear he's doing good. Hopefully he can appreciate all that he's done instead of defining himself over hanging on to one thing

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  77. Yep, not only was his mega push not enough, but it was borderline insulting apparently. And yeah, if facing Taker at WM is such a bad thing, why did HHH give himself that spot the previous 2 years? Must mean something.

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  78. Shit, yeah, good point. Maybe they should stick him with Ryback instead. Oh, wait...

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  79. WM 31 main event, in the ultimate troll job, Miz vs Ryback!!! BOOK IT!

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  80. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QF8XYHOA7fI

    It's definitely one of the oddest Triple H looks, after the bicycle shorts of course.

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  81. Whatever you can say for Punk not being in Cena or Rock's place at WM can go twentyfold for fucking Miz main eventing WM. Punk's main point was that he did everything he was supposed to do. He could wrestle, he was great on the mic, and for a while he moved more merch than Cena. While he was champion, he did all the public appearances and Make a Wish visits that Cena did. What else is he supposed to do to get that spot?

    That whole podcast was really interesting to listen to as finally we get firsthand information from a legit top guy about how the business side works. Not Melzer or the other writers talking to some anonymous source, but a guy who was there and did it.

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  82. Wrestlers have this funny idea where it's okay to behave like a total cunt so long as you can justify it as "Ah, I'm just working the marks, this is still a BUSINESS, right? Anyway, check out my podcast for CM Punk
    Gossip YEAHHH BABBYYYY!!!!"

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  83. You don't win friends with salad! You don't win friends with salad!

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  84. Great pop which led to a typically meandering promo which basically said "He's winning the Rumble, get used to him being on top again" and then RAW sucking for 2 years.

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  85. Awesome, I enjoy those

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  86. I still feel the best scenario for WM 29 would have been Punk beat Rock via Shield shenanigans at Royal Rumble, with Cena winning the Rumble...Cena costing the Rock the WWE title at Elimination Chamber on the premise of "you cost me all I wanted when you beat me at WM 28, so now I did the same to you"....Cena getting a delay on his Rumble title shot until Extreme Rules to face the Rock at WM, even maybe in a "Cena retires" angle of some sort, with Cena actually portraying somewhat of a tweener going into the match....Punk declaring there are no legitimate challengers left for his title so he will take WM off this year, followed immediately by the "gong"

    Punk/Taker - WM Streak vs 500 days as champ
    Cena/Rock II - either just a grudge rematch or with some stipulation

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  87. HHH gave Bubba the visual pin though, so don't say HHH didn't put him over!

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  88. In setting up that 'Elimination Chamber' cage for the first time at Survivor Series 2002, they obviously knew well in advance that match was going to take place. Why not hold off until Survivor Series at MSG and have the inaugural Chamber match be for the "new" vacant RAW world title? Just handing it to HHH started it on such a shitty note

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  89. Yeah, it didn't quite compute for me either back then. From the kayfabe standpoint, here is this "blue blood" character who was supposed to have a stick up his ass...now acting like he's the coolest guy in the room. And from a performance standpoint, it always seemed forced too.

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  90. "Before the match we get a promo from Savage as he yells at Elizabeth to shut up before he "slaps her and pushes her against the wall." Is that line edited on the Network?"
    No, it's not edited on the Network, and he was pointing his finger in Okerlund's face when he said it.

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  91. It's just a little dirty! It's still good, it's still good!

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  92. When has wrestling (or anything else, really) ever been a meritocracy?

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  93. They probably still have the rights, actually. They can't use Punk's name or Titantron, though.

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  94. I just figured this out 20 seconds before I scrolled down and saw this. Better late than never

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  95. Someone send Vince the VHS.

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  96. If Punk were still around, he's not getting that main event slot this year either.

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  97. me too actually, just because you have a point doesnt mean you need to whine and bitch about it.

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  98. Maybe they thought having the heel GM crown another heel champion without having to earn it would be good heat? Not that I liked it either but that may have been the thinking behind it.

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  99. Some of those early DX promos are embarrassing to watch for HHH. It's Shawn going off and doing his thing and HHH trying to pipe in with something. The promo where they name themselves DX is pretty much just Shawn cutting a promo and HHH repeating what he said.

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  100. yup, and then giving him the role of the dick joke after a killer HBK heel promo.

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  101. Punk makes the case that he's clearly a better-drawing face than even Cena for the company (bringing up PPV buys and shirt sales during his face run). In his mind, I can believe he thinks that if WWE doesn't screw with his push by bringing in Nash and HHH, he could have topped Cena in business.


    Imagine if Rock doesn't get involved in the Miz/Cena finish, with Cena winning the belt (which happened the next month anyway). Rock goes on the next night promising to be in the main event of WM next year, but doesn't specifically call out Cena. Imagine if that spot was Rock/Punk, with a white-hot Punk in the top spot.


    Is it that hard to believe that wouldn't have topped even the heights of Cena/Punk? I can see Punk's point.

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  102. Have we ever gotten a definitive reason for Orndorff being left off the WM 3 card?

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  103. Yeah but X-pac unleashed in the right environment was gold. His return to Raw promo is one of the best moments ever on Raw. Underrated and totally fantastic

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  104. I like X-Pac and I love that return promo on the post-WM RAW (although I wouldn't call it one of the best moments in the history of the show), but I could never think of him as cool. Entertaining at times? Sure. Cool? Nah.

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  105. Totally agree.

    The Jericho/HHH fued was over shadowed by Stephanie's dog. The first ever undisputed champion was an over thought. And it was the beginning of the Reign of Terror of the Son in Law.

    No one wanted to see that match again. Everyone knew HHH was going over and no one cared.

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  106. Definitely the thinking but it was a pretty awful move

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  107. I think it's a top 5 RAW moment, unquestionable. Not sure if you were a fan at the time, but if so, don't you remember how awesome it was when he showed up and just lit WCW up? It was awesome I thought. It gets lost in the shuffle over the years, probably because he never became a huge star.

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  108. I was a fan, but mostly watched WWF. I only really started tuning into WCW during the company's last few years for Goldberg, Steiner (and Bagwell) and Booker.

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  109. HBK-Flair, Batista-Taker, Hart-Austin were all Main Event matches. Going on last doesn't mean shit.

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  110. That's an excellent idea. Would've given HBK's comeback a massive boost, would've made HHH's win the next month far more heelish, would've given the belt far more credibility from the get go.


    This is why you don't work for WWE.

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  111. The Bischoff led HHH love-in leading up to the handover of the title is the most sickening thing ever. HHH probably still watches that when he can't get it up with Stephanie.

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  112. Helpfully, I forget the exact promo, but I remember seeing one where they were both in the ring, HBK paused in his spiel, Hunter tried to cut in, and Shawn resumed - leaving HHH to stand there looking awkward and blueballed.

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  113. Here's a thought. Maybe at Mania.. Punk wins. Since they essentially threw away the Streak on lesnar anyway the following year, why not let Punk end the Streak, become the UBER-heel WWE champion with a 500+ day reign who finally put Taker down at Mania, and then set up Cena vs. Punk in the final blowoff at Extreme Rules?

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  114. For everyone who defends HHH's status as a draw, his performance and behaviour during 02 did more than anything to turn me off the product ever has before or since. I can't believe I'm alone in this.

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  115. Yeah, Shawn's win would have been a nice swerve. Set it up like "LOL HHH is going to beat five other guys", then HBK ruins his big night and become the "first" World Heavyweight Champion

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  116. They could have done a new "Deadly Game" type tournament on one of the fall PPVs too. Anything would be better than just handing him the belt.

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  117. even the top "draws" need an opponent that's seen at least on a half-way similar level. because The Rock vs. Kofi Kingston would have never resulted in a record buyrate for WrestleMania as well.

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  118. wrong about WM21, right about the other ones though.

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  119. Every time Vince talks about giving people opportunities.

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  120. "Look at Hogan/Rock, Angle/Shawn, or Shawn/Taker at WM25 as examples."


    isn't that kind of the same "spot" that Undertaker vs. Punk had?


    off all three "main events" it had the best buildup (with wasn't that hard because the others were horrible) with him scattering the ashes from the urn. and it also was the best match with arguebly the hottest crowd (and duelling Taker/Punk chants).

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  121. it's unfortunate that the WWE seemingly lost its faith in him after his run against the Undertaker in 2009 (or, if that story is true, wanted to punish him for same backstage bs). because just a few months later CM Punk started his bearded preacher phase which imo could have easily been utilized in a more prominent role.

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  122. being the face of the company for the majority of almost ten years might have something to do with that.

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  123. How can Punk possibly figure that he didn't get an "opportunity"?

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  124. Wasn't Punk saying for several years that he didn't see himself staying in the business too much longer? I distinctly remember hearing that as early as 2011. Why would Vince have gone any further with Punk if the guy was actively saying he didn't see a long-term future in the business?

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  125. Yeah, good point about a triple threat. At one point I thought maybe running Rock vs. Cena vs. Punk made sense at WM29, with Lesnar vs. Taker a year early. Doing it elimination style would likely have caused the crowd to turn on it once Punk was out. Having Cena pin Rock (w/o eliminations) would give Cena his win, while leaving Punk open for a definitive re-match between the two though

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  126. Those were my words, not his, and I'm referring to the opportunity to main event WM. He did as much as anyone has in several years to earn that honor, and didn't get it.

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  127. Elbow injury I believe

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  128. Charles Manson Punk was the fucking best.

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  129. I won't say anything about Wrestlemania 29. Rock/Cena was set in stone. And regardless what Punk thought in his head, that was the biggest match they could do. I will say I don't think Punk being in the match really hurts it. It may actually have helped; because everyone and their mother knew that Cena was getting his win back in that match so there really wasn't much suspense. Maybe having Punk in there adds a little more to the match.


    Plus having Punk as champion for over a year than making him an afterthought to job to Taker did seem pretty stupid. The only negative is we would have lost out on an amazing Punk/Taker match if Punk was in the main event. But I think I could have lived with that.


    OK, so I said I wasn't going to say anything about Wrestlemania 29, I lied.


    I do agree with Punk in the sense that I think it was fucked up, and probably some stupid petty stuff from Trips and Vince that Punk was never thought of as even an option for a Wrestlemania main event. And let's not start with the stupid bullshit that he was in a "main event" with Taker. The main event has, and will always be the last match on the show. Period, end of story. You can't beat a match that doesn't have anything come after it. If it doesn't end the show, it's not the main event.


    I also always thought that if it wasn't for the whole Rock involvement and Cena needing to get his win back (it's funny how wins and losses only don't matter when Vince wants someone to lose) the main event of Wrestlemania 29 SHOULD have been Punk vs Cena. Of course everything that involves Punk and Cena was always masked in this political bullshit about the fans booing Cena or the fans not following the storyline the way the WWE wanted them to. That in itself is what always made their rivalry so awesome and so realistic. Not because Punk and Cena didn't like each other in real life. But because it showcased everything that is wrong with WWE. Which is exactly everything that Punk was pissed off with and turned him off to the business. Not even two years removed from Punk almost quitting because of Vince and Trips not listening to the fans and trying to force feed what they want to see and Punk was back to the same exact position of not being good enough for the main event. Of course if you think about it Punk may have been the most over guy in the company. But even as WWE champion he was never actually in the main event. How many of hist PPV title matches were the last match on the card the entire time he was champion? 2, maybe 3.


    If the WWE ever stopped trying to force push the people they wanted and actually listened to the fans Punk/Cena was what should have always been the true main event of Wrestlemania 29. Their Raw match that everyone says was the greatest Raw match of all time should have been the main event at Wrestlemania. And I'm sure Punk wrestled it trying to prove that. But it was all for naught.

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  130. That Raw match between Trips and HBK is one of my all time favorites, and certainly one of Raws best. Really makes you miss JR on commentary.

    Was that the match we can look to and say "he's back" in regards to HBK being back to his old self or do we look more at the Jericho match?

    To this day the fact that he got as good as he did still amazes me. Yeah, the ss '02 match was good, but he had some pretty bad stuff after.

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  131. Better would have been to have a mini-tournament and just have him cheat to win.

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