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Arguing for a new brand extenstion


I watched a bit of Raw on Monday night and, I didn't get far. The company seems on a treadmill & needs a spark. So I'm suggestion they do another brand extension: http://stholeary.blogspot.com/2014/12/could-new-brand-extension-spark.html

Essentially, they need to do something and they need to groom the next main eventers by giving them time to get over in the midcard, instead of just forcing fans to like someone. On a related note, I don't think the Roman Reigns thing is going to work out very well.

​I think the Reigns thing will be fine in the sense that there's no viable alternatives and they've already killed PPV anyway, but he's certainly not launching a new boom period or anything, no. ​

Comments

  1. I don't understand why there needs to be a "brand extension" in order for midcarders to wrestle on Smackdown and Main Event. This is dumb. Just show more guys that are sitting in the locker room on the B and C shows. That's it. It doesn't have to be a big to-do.

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  2. Its a plain shame but Roman Reigns, when his pain has waned and even if his fame remains the same, the show is on is so mundane. The fans are trained to acclaim his refrain, but the reaction is still tame and not sustained. If gets to the WM main, Brock will bring the pain, Roman can only bring the lame.

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  3. In hindsight, the brand extension was way better for the roster that how it is today. And the draft shows were always good episodes.

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  4. Hire more indie guys as jobbers. Have guys beat them on Main Event and Superstars. Save the Main Event & Superstars matches for Smackdown. And so on.

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  5. The only choice for launching a new boom period is Kofi Kingston.

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  6. Or Colt Cabana etc.

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  7. While we're on the subject of completely unrealistic things, why not just build a time machine and grab '88 Savage, '94 Bret, '98 Austin, '00 Rock, '00 Triple H and '11 CM Punk? That'll make things better.
    The brand split ended because USA Network didn't like the fact that a handful of name-brand stars were rarely appearing on their flagship show. Much like getting rid of the third hour on Raw, this is something the WWE had little- if any- say in. If anything, they probably agree with us on both of those things.

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  8. In the past, I'd have been overjoyed watching train wrecks like WWE trying to force-feed guys like BIG, BEEFY ROMAN REIGNS!!!!!! down our throats. Now I just feel bad for Reigns because he won't have a chance to get himself over.

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  9. I'm sure Lanny Poffo is working on that time machine at WWE Labs now.

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  10. They can barely fill RAW with the roster they have now.

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  11. So how come you and Logan still use the tags / labels here anyway, dude?

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  12. The dude can suck his own dick. I bet he's not working on a time machine.

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  13. A brand extension won't fix anything, it would just split the shittiness in two. Ideally they'd improve the product they're already putting out which probably won't happen so you may as well watch NXT where stories actually make sense and characters are actually developed

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  14. I feel bad for Reigns for three reasons:

    1. A large swath of fans have become so jaded and impossible to please that they're tired of a push that hasn't, in earnest, actually begun. I cannot recall another time in which so many internet fans had soured on someone who had all of one PPV singles match- which, while not great, was definitely good- to his credit. Unlike with Daniel Bryan last year, I don't think our bitching and moaning about this projected future event (seriously, it's really silly when you say what we're actually complaining about here) comes anywhere near matching consensus opinion so it's a non-issue anyway, but whatever.

    2. Unfortunately, I agree with the bitching and moaning to this extent: Reigns has a ton of natural charisma that's being forced into being Samoan Cena, and unless they allow him to retool (and it really wouldn't take much) it's going to be underwhelming.

    3. Cena should be the one putting him over at Mania, not Brock, and I don't think that's what's going to happen.
    (Hey, this bitching about things that haven't yet happened really makes it easier to make an argument. I should do this more.)

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  15. I disagree that there is no alternatives ... I think Randy Orton should be the guy for WM. His storyline goes all the way back to last year - he was the chosen one but the authority never believed in him, brought in Batista who lost his title and never got a rematch, was forced into Evolution, and then had to see him supplanted by Seth Rollins. He was the iced out.


    Have him return, win the Rumble, beat Brock - and then have Rollins cash in on him at WM and BOOM there is your 2015.

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  16. Why not? He was a lot more supple back then

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  17. WHY ISN'T REIGNS GOING TO WORK?
    Yeah, okay, the scripted promos they give him suck but they suck for the rest of the roster too. He's got a ton of charisma, the casual fan really likes him, and he's getting better as a wrestler and they have plenty of good workers to help him along the way. I don't get the anger of having Reigns get the mega push.
    I can't wait to be at my floor seat at Levi Stadium cheering him as he wins the title.

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  18. Anybody watch Rudolph last night? The reindeer didn't mock Rudolph because of his red nose. They mocked him because he forgot the first rule of male reindeers: bro's before doe's.

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  19. So you think The Genius is forgoing sucking his own dick to go back and time to get his younger and more supple self to suck his dick?


    To be fair, I can see why Vince hasn't been racing to get him into the HOF.

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  20. "Yep Mode" Abeyance Brown ©December 10, 2014 at 6:50 AM

    You just better hope other fans are doing the same.

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  21. "Yep Mode" Abeyance Brown ©December 10, 2014 at 6:51 AM

    I'm all for a face Orton again.

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  22. They won't. As usual with WrestleMania, it'll be a super snarky crowd.

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  23. "Yep Mode" Abeyance Brown ©December 10, 2014 at 6:52 AM

    Yeah, the time for a brand extension would have been last year. Now it seems like it would be too late thanks to all the budget cuts.

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  24. He's never had a good match and never cut a good promo. At least one of the two should be requisites for main eventing Mania. Watching him fight, let alone beat Brock at Mania of all places is gonna be laughable IMO

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  25. "Yep Mode" Abeyance Brown ©December 10, 2014 at 6:54 AM

    My favorite episodes of Raw.

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  26. Perhaps they give Reigns a year long title reign, then build to Cena challenging him next year.

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  27. "Yep Mode" Abeyance Brown ©December 10, 2014 at 6:56 AM

    Reigns had a few good matches with Orton and Rollins, the only problem was that they were carrying him and had a more impressive move set.

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  28. Cowboy "Ace" Orton as a face, or fuhgeddabouddit.

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  30. Reigns vs. Cena and Lesnar vs. Orton seems the best ways to go

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  31. Oh, Sen Pen! I loved you in Shangai Surprise.

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  32. "Yep Mode" Abeyance Brown ©December 10, 2014 at 6:57 AM

    Shockingly, more wrestlers would be better off doing this as a side job.

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  33. It's not going to be laughable. The fans respond well to him. The people who post here don't respond well to him.

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  34. The fans who aren't on camera are responding well. The fans I see on camera don't seem all that bothered.

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  35. Because wrestling fans are worse fanboys than console fanboys and have no objectivity at all when it comes to who gets pushed.

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  36. Quite the witty response from Abeyance!

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  37. I'm picturing Roman Reigns - a guy who is still green, has no moveset, whose biggest accomplishment is winning a Slammy, and who gave himself a hernia by walking - conquering Brock Lesnar at Mania and it's definitely laughable. I also have a feeling the fans will respond in similar fashion to Rock/Cena 2

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  38. I'm picturing that not occurring.

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  39. You don't think the match will happen at all? Let's hope so

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  40. Actually, I contradicted myself: it's by no means a "large" swath of fans, so I don't feel as bad for him in that regard.

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  41. "(Hey, this whole "bitching about things that haven't yet happened" thingy really makes it easier to make an argument. I should do this more.)"


    The trick is to say "I've seen a lot of posts here lately saying" - and then say the crazy Straw Man argument you've thought up. Now you're posting with gas!

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  42. BEELEEDAT!!!

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  43. "WHY ISN'T REIGNS GOING TO WORK?"


    You sound like his Mom. HE HURT HIS BACK. HE HAS A NOTE.

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  44. Have to disagree with that. He was not setting the world on fire before his injury or anything and a lot if that blame should be placed on WWE creative and those shitty lines they have him. And some of the via satellite promos were horrendous too. They have a short time to get him over for the Rumble so he can believably win that match and I do not think he is there yet and if the fans feel like he is forced down their throats, there will be a backlash

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  45. The problem with Reigns is the problem with how WWE operates. Being a top guy requires being able to deliver scripted promos and talk for 20 minutes.

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  46. Pah, only a SNES owner would say that.

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  47. "...this is something the WWE had little- if any- say in."

    I agree. While I am quick to criticize the WWE at times, I get the feeling that if they weren't handcuffed by their USA deal, and RAW was exclusive to the WWE Network, the product would be much better.

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  48. The problem with Reigns is that he's not going to be all that good until we're discussing him via posthumous compilation, ala Ultimate Warrior, and have years sifted through and summarised for our convenience, without seeing all the shit in-between the gold.

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  49. Saying Reigns can't work tells me immediately not to take your opinion seriously.

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  50. Why don't you show me where he's had a good match/cut a good promo if it's such an outrageous thing to say?

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  51. Every problem people have with Reigns, they should also have with Ambrose. He has been terrible for months now. Not his fault either but because he has indie cred, people give him a pass.

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  52. His match with Orton at Summerslam was good. Oh, you don't agree? Well, then, I guess your argument was right because it was right.

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  53. It was utterly forgettable. Next example?

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  54. He has literally dozens of four star matches the past couple of years.

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  55. Come on cult, you know what I mean. Singles matches. Any good ones?

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  56. He had like two before he got hurt.

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  57. Ambrose reminds people of Pillman, Piper, Foley. All crazy and popular guys.


    Reigns reminds people of The Warlord, Diesel, Batista. All average workers at best with little-to-middling online credit ('Diesel', not 'Kevin Nash'...).


    I agree with you. I think Reigns seems the worse though because he's a cover act of a boring original. Ambrose's act isn't much better, but at least he's covering way better material.

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  58. I don't disagree with that.

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  59. Which ones? Why are you pussy footing around?

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  60. Okay, answer me this, who is the alternative right now? My point is the WWE is doing a terrible job of making people care about a guy. The people here obviously will begin furiously tap dancing in delight if it's Ambrose but is that any better with where he's at right now? I don't think so.

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  61. What Reigns has going for him regarding the Rumble is two things:

    1. He has an established history there, with all the eliminations last year the fans losing their shit for him against Batista. Yes, that was largely a pro-Bryan backlash, but Reigns was immune from it.
    2. It's a chaotic environment in which he can thrive, much like the six-man Shield matches.

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  62. How was his pre-injury match against Rollins? I didn't see it.

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  63. Also forgettable. I'm sure Rollins did an OK job with him though.

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  64. Vs Rollins and vs Orton both flirted with four stars.

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  65. Dolph Ziggler, maybe.

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  66. LOL - I think it's your opinion that can't be taken seriously mate

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  67. The guy who has been built up the best has been Rusev but that isn't happening.

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  68. If Ambrose was ready to take that spot, the fans would be started the grassroots groundswell for him like they did for Bryan last year. I love Ambrose, but he's nowhere near that. He's really over, but not "fans commandeer the WrestleMania main event for him" over.

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  69. Maybe Luke Harper Wyatt or Eric Rowan Wyatt? They're also well protected still.

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  70. Meltzer have Reigns vs. Orton from Summerslam ****

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  71. Agreed. I think that he could have but it really got derailed in October after the feud with Rollins didn't end definitively.

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  72. And people who keep throwing out names for the next top babyface keep forgetting Rollins. Once he turns back, dude is gonna be unstoppable.

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  73. But he's a heel.

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  74. That doesn't mean much to me

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  75. He's already their top heel. Who's going to replace him in that position when they do turn him?

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  76. I'm starting to buy the argument some have made that Rusev has been a total babyface, except he's Russian so heel.

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  77. Who do you want to beat Lesnar?

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  78. That is why it isn't happening. No way is a heel winning the main event at Mania. I would be for that though.

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  79. Reigns is not the guy,
    Reigns isn't capable of being the guy,
    We had a guy but now we don't,
    Reigns. Is Not. The Guy.

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  80. Ideally, Bryan. If he's not healthy then I'd take Orton or Rollins over Reigns any day

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  81. What drives me crazy is knowing how many wrestlers they have on the roster, yet how many they actually use on a given week. You basically have the cluster of guys who were in the Survivor Series main event, the Divas, a couple tag teams, then anyone else they use on the show are wasted in dumb comedy segments. Then you take the booking, which basically sees them establish the next PPV card the night after the previous PPV, and it feels like you never just see guys on RAW who are being pushed. They can't just have Ambrose in a match, it has to be an angle to hype the next PPV match. (Not set it up, mind you: just hype something they already set up.) Every show looks and feels the same because of how quickly the set the next PPV card, and the limited roster they use each week to build it up.

    Of course injuries are really killing them right now, so they don't have Roman Reigns, Wade Barrett, Bo Dallas & others. Then they take Randy Orton off TV to shoot a movie.

    But back to the talent they have: how often do they take all the tag teams they have and cram them together in one match? Or they cram 4 unrelated Divas together in a match. Or they take 3 jobbers, spend weeks needlessly airing vignettes of them with some kind of new gimmick, then bring them in as a group to job them. Why can't they figure out how to put guys in matches that aren't either pointless 2 minute affairs, or 15 minute yawn-fests?

    Maybe it's because they're in cost-cutting mode, but it seems to me they could feature more talent on the show each week. Pick a couple guys & gals who they just put in matches say every other week. Have them win 5-6 minute matches. Don't just drop them into some dumb angle because--let's face it--this company's default is to make everything below a certain point on the card a joke. Have 2 or 3 men & 1 Diva on each week, alternating them every week, for about 2 months. THEN if they've gotten over, introduce them into the PPV build mix. This is where the titles could be useful.

    Why not showcase one NXT match a week? Remember how crazy the crowd went for the Neville/Zayn/Breeze/Kidd 4-way match they did? Why bring in Charlotte and job her to Natalya when they could have had her defend her belt against Sasha Banks or Becky Lynch?

    WWE's roster just feels so thin right now, but it's mostly because they've made so much of the talent feel like losers. It doesn't even feel like 50/50 booking anymore. Everyone--even John Cena(!)--feels like they lose more matches than they win. Even a guy who never loses like Rusev somehow comes off as a loser for as much as he has to sell to keep his feuds going. Seth Rollins is the most-pushed guy in the company now (well, until Reigns returns) and even he spends most shows losing in tag matches where other guys get pinned. I would bet every babyface in this company has a losing record over the last 6 months on RAW. Even if I'm wrong and I lost that bet, it goes to show how off things are right now, because I'm not being facetious: it honestly feels like everyone *somehow* has a losing record. And who wants to watch a bunch of losers?

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  82. Exactly. You've already decided that he's never had a good match, so what the fuck is the point of this circular nonsense? Your support for your argument is your argument. You've decided that you don't want Reigns to have had a good match. I, and others, do think he's had good matches. So you agree with me that this is really stupid, yes?

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  83. The fan base Pillman had was insane. Probably one of the most over workers of the attitude era. Guy was getting 80's Hogan like responses everywhere he went.

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  84. Rollins isn't turning face. Orton would be cool. I doubt Bryan is healthy enough but I'd personally take Bryan over Reigns if he could wrestle.

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  85. It's not that I've decided I don't want him to have a good match. That's ridiculous. I've just still waiting for him to have a good singles match. It's OK for us to disagree and discuss this stuff without becoming upset, you know.

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  86. I don't even think that would've done it. He's still really over and that was an insanely hot feud, but he still would've needed to move on to something else after however the Rollins feud ended. Daniel Bryan didn't have any of his stuff end definitively last year and we didn't care.

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  87. Bulgarian representing Russian.


    Here in my house in the UK, we totally watch Rusev and his act as being a babyface (except for all the Putin photos - Putin fans are just cunts). That's not us being anti-American. His opponents have been acting totally heelish towards him.


    Add to that, my girl totally has the hots for him and is desperately waiting for him or Rollins to turn, so they can fight each other whilst she passes out from excitement.

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  88. She'll be sitting front row for her baby boy's big moment!

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  89. ...........................................................................
    tl;dr

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  90. I'm not exactly what you'd call a patriotic person, but the initial Swagger/Rusev thing when Swagger turned face was really cool.

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  91. I don't agree with that. I did enjoy him lots in the mid 90s when we briefly got WCW here in the UK on Saturday afternoon. And I enjoyed him clearly having a ball with the Hart Foundation.


    But Hogan-like? As in, as a face? In attitude-era WWF? No way.

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  92. What does mean something to you?

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  93. Only if he starts a new Invasion with a returning CM Punk the next time the WWE is in Montreal.

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  94. The guy was one of the most beloved stars of all time. AMBROSE is the only person who may ever have a shot of coming close. Brian Pillman's light will never be see again.

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  95. That's quite a broad question

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  96. I got as far as, "blah blah blah" and had to just leave it. I'm sure it's bullshit anyway.

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  97. I'm just wondering what you want to hear. Do you just believe what you believe and it's all rhetorical or do you actually want to see something and get an answer. It seems like the former more than the latter.

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  98. "Why not showcase one NXT match a week? Remember how crazy the crowd went for the Neville/Zayn/Breeze/Kidd 4-way match they did? Why bring in Charlotte and job her to Natalya when they could have had her defend her belt against Sasha Banks or Becky Lynch?"
    Because they're showing that as good as NXT peeps are, the Superstars on RAW are still of a higher quality, whilst still showing a glimpse of the show for people who haven't checked it out yet. Much as people who are frequent victors on Superstars can't be assumed to win the next time they're on Smackdown.

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  99. I'm not upset, I just think it's a dumb argument.

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  100. JTG is gone. Get over it.

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  101. Who gives a shit about move sets? It's story telling, not a fucking video game.

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  102. Okay but at the moment Rollins and Ambrose have unfinished business and I do believe they will face off at Wrestlemania. I think if they're largely facing each other for the next couple of years it will be like Cena vs Orton all over again.

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  103. It actually was okay. The points:
    1. Don't throw people together in meaningless multi-person matches. You could get more out of the roster and the three hours with 5-6 minute singles matches.

    2. Don't bring in people just to job them out and make them look like jokes like they did with Charlotte.

    3. Give people some wins, no more 50/50 booking, etc. Alright, we know that one.

    4. Maybe use some time to showcase NXT every week.

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  104. I believe what I believe till I'm shown differently. I'm open to changing my mind (as I've done in the past). No one can seem to show me where Reigns has had a good match/cut a good promo though

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  105. I see.


    When you put it like that, you have a point. Certainly I know that bit where he fights a pencil was over like Warrior at Summerslam '89. All the people on my street, young and old, black and white, were passing around tapes of it, it was a hell of a time to be alive.

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  106. something about taking a dump

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  107. Wrestlemania 2000 is calling you, he wants to know why you no talk no more.

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  108. We're nearly 14 years into Orton's career. He's had his runs at the top. Making him champ again just gives you a guy who gets pops because of his longevity, but won't draw money because there's nothing new to see with him. It's time to phase him out (along with Cena, Big Show, Kane, Mark Henry...)

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  109. Ok.

    Just checking. I believe what I believe as well, so I know just how you feel.

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  110. What I mean by that is the only part of his matches where he actually does anything physical worth remembering are the endings. It would be nice if he did something interesting during the match, too.

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  111. they need to try and drive whatever buys they can get with either the Network or on pay per view, and Lesnar vs. Orton is far more interesting IMO rather than Reigns. And it would be a way to transition the title from Lesnar to Rollins.


    The one thing nobody has done yet with MitB is cash it in at Wrestlemania. It would be perfect, IMHO.


    And I completely agree with you on Orton but realistically there is nobody ready (and its not the talent's fault).

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  112. That is just a dumb mindset for the company to have. Wrestling has a long history of new guys coming in and making an impact. Why bury an entire roster of developmental talent by saying not even their champion can beat the lowest main roster wrestler?

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  113. Sorry. Next time I'll just say "Roman Reigns sux" and leave it at that.

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  114. I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or making fun of what I said. I need more coffee.

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  115. Ambrose has been terrible these past few months but at least he looks comfortable and like he knows his way around the ring no matter what's happening, unlike Reigns who I think appears too reliant on the people he's working with

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  116. I don't want to see him winning the WWE title in the main event, but being the guy to put Lesnar out to pasture (with Cena losing the title to Reigns in the main)? Yep. I'm on board with that.

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  117. BEELEEDAT!!!

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  118. I don't think they'd shit on the end of a WrestleMania like this, but man....Rollins cashing in on Reigns the night after WM would be fucking beautiful. (And I like Reigns.)

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  119. I would be down with a brand split, IF...they had different people booking the two shows and Vince was only rewriting one of them. Hell. Give one of the books to HHH and we can see how he does.

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  120. Rollins should cash in on Reigns *at* WrestleMania.

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  121. It'd be an amazing moment, that's for sure.

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  122. Agreeing. And that's okay, my comments are often misinterpreted here, I'm making an effort to be more clear!

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  123. Batista was definitely an above-average worker.

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  124. Natalya isn't their lowest wrestler on the roster, according to the WWE she's 'a veteran'.


    The argument I would use to support them: Charlotte's an NXT wrestler, Natalya is still there on RAW 'tomorrow'.

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  125. Reigns would be half dead from the herculean effort of defeating Lesnar, leaving him vulnerable to a Rollins cash-in. You then have Reigns chasing Rollins, a feud which started nearly a year earlier, and the loss of the belt after the win gives him some sympathy from the fans. Instead of the guy being shoved down our throats he's a guy who had his WrestleMania moment stolen.

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  126. This poem not endorsed by The Game.

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  127. Eventually he was. He wasn't at the point that Reigns is at now.

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  128. But Reigns is taller than 6'4. Doesn't that mean we're supposed to hate him more?

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  129. Batista was awesome in the ring. Try again.

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  130. Thanks for the review. I'll look this one up.

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