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Earl Hebner's Slow Count



I think one of the most underrated irritating things from the Attitude Era is Earl Hebner telegraphing the finish of a match by making the three count roughly twice as slow as his usual cadence. I realize he was doing this for dramatic effect, but God it rubs me the wrong way.

I seem to remember some discussion of the slow count at the time, but the Network has gotten me all lathered up about it again. Say this for the current crop of refs - I don't know any of them, which is good because it means none of them are drawing attention away from where it should be.

Unless you're Tommy Young, no referee should be the focus of the match.  Anyone who gets knocked unconscious for 10 minutes by a clothesline doesn't warrant a name anyway.  And yes, I HATED that slow count shit as well.  

That being said, Charles Robinson is still great.  

Comments

  1. Hebner's a cunt.

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  2. Wasn't that around the time that they were trying to turn Earl face? Teaming with the Rock, being bullied by Triple H, etc.

    I remember he got a pretty big pop when he pushed Trips after doing a fast count for Jericho.

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  3. "Audience of one". What a great way to put it.

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  4. He is the most cunty of all the refs.

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  5. My least favorite was Nick Patrick's barely audible slapping of the mat.

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  6. always loved john finnegan

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  7. "Hold on a second, I've got a question. Matter of fact, I've got a problem. Aren't you supposed to be Jamaican? What happened to your accent? I thought you were Jamaican?"



    I feel like Kofi's entire career has been one rib after another.

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  8. I always like Mike Chioda and Charles Robinson.

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  9. Charles Robinson went from being just another ref to being one of the best refs of all time.

    Interesting trivia: He refereed Eddie's final match, Edge's final match, Michaels' final match, and Flair's final WWE match.

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  10. I loved the slow count. You guys are all way off base here.

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  11. When I was about ten, I would do the counts myself while watching on tv, so I could see who the REAL winner was

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  12. Count me in as a big fan of the slow count. If the match is good, there isn't a single person watching the ref on the first viewing anyway.

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  13. That was just Triple H doing stuff Flair already did.

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  14. How about Rita Chatterton?

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  15. In addition to the slow count, many refs in the past will speed up their count for the finish. Always annoyed me they did that.

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  16. I just have a feeling that the "New Day" gimmick is designed for the fans to turn on them so they could be the militant heels they were intended to be in the first place. At least that's what the commentary seems to be indicating.
    Or maybe I'm giving the writing team too much credit.

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  17. If I'm remembering right, there are a few Attitude Era main events that start with Mike Chioda as the ref, but somehow Earl Hebner always ends up being the one to make the final count.

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  18. YOU GHANA BE KIDDING ME!

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  19. MaffewOfBotchamaniaDecember 20, 2014 at 8:24 AM

    Yeah, I'm not getting this complaint.

    Dramatic count with J.R.'s throaty NO GAWWD NO commentary = Best way to end a late 90s PPV main event.

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  20. The only thing worse than Hebner's slow count is Scott Armstrong's weird shoulder move

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  21. Cena vs Orton,one more timeDecember 20, 2014 at 8:25 AM

    Kenya stop it with these puns?

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  22. It makes no sense for his cadence to change completely at the end of the match. Isn't he giving the guy being pinned extra time to kick out? There's no awesome drama to it for me that could outweigh that logic gap.

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  23. Isn't he still considered one of the "senior" refs along with Chioda?

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  24. The slow count was so lame. Especially if they kick out. Wouldn't then the other guy have a legitimate complaint with the official kayfabe wise? Never cared for Tim White's sloppy 3 counts either.

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  25. JAMAICAN ME CRAZY!

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  26. I kinda liked the slow count. He seemed to only do it when it was 100% obvious that it was the finish. Sometimes it even seemed to add a little to the drama. I thought the slow count at the end of the Bret/Shawn ironman match fit perfectly. And for an example of Hebner totally fooling you with the slow count, check out the end of the Royal Rumble 2000 street fight. Earl slow counts the first pedigree but Cactus kicks out. He then super slow-counts the second pedigree but that was just to avoid getting thumbtacks stuck in his hand.

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  27. That's just STUPID STUPID STUPID

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  28. Must we go to two extremes? Yeah don't play up the fact that they're black men being held down because of Ferguson I get that but why go all the way to the other end of the spectrum and make them dancing goofs? They can't just be a faction concerned with winning and excellence like the Horsemen?

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  29. It also makes no sense that a body slam should hurt more that being punched in the face 10 times in a row. Now there's a logic gap.

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  30. I think anyone thinking, hoping or expecting there to still be some kind of swerve for this is deluded.

    The current creative team, by design, doesn't write things that are required to get a certain response from the crowd before they can execute step 2.

    They write things that are expected to get a certain response, ignore it if they don't and plow ahead anyway.

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  31. Hebner was an overrated garbage ref and I never understood the love.

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  32. Cena vs Orton,one more timeDecember 20, 2014 at 8:47 AM

    THEY'RE JUST HAVING FUN MAGGLE HAHA I LOVE IT

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  33. I have to admit I marked out like a 6 year old Ultimate Warrior fan when Hebnar gave the fast count to Jericho and he "won' the WWF title from Triple H on Raw that time.

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  34. If Big E were born 25 years earlier he would have made for an amazing opponent for Hogan.

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  35. I usually don't notice refs but I never really minded the slow counts for dramatic impact. Overbearing refs are annoying. The guy from the flair-race starcade 83 match was brutal. I never thought that match was as great as many do and part of it was due to him breaking up every hold and needlessly interjecting himself into the match

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  36. The most annoying little thing is when the ref taps his hand on the mat before actually making the count and makes it seem like the 3-count already happened.

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  37. It worked if it came after a bunch of ref bumps but Earl doing it for no reason was obnoxious.

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  38. Eh, Earl was always a face ref, even after Montreal. Remember him celebrating with Austin after WrestleMania 15?

    TNA actually tried to make him a heel with overt Montreal references, though.

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  39. When it was off a ref bump, it made sense. It was a great way to show how a face definitively beat a heel. If you have a visual 6 count, there's no doubt you beat that guy.

    I didn't care for it when a heel would get it in going over, though. Nothing wrong with heels winning feuds, but they should never get the "extra special, cherry on top with sprinkles" kind of rub from winning a feud unless someone's retiring.

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  40. MikeyMike, JuggernautDecember 20, 2014 at 9:05 AM

    Even drank a beer with him!

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  41. Hogan vs. Andre at WMIII had a weird three count after the slam and legdrop. By the time Hogan covered him and tried to hook the leg, Andre was halfway counted out and the camera angle was weird. I wonder if that was them being unsure if Andre would do the honours and making sure he stayed pinned.

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  42. I liked Joey Marella.

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  43. Listening to the end of Austin's recent podcast with Meltzer. Even Steve seems like his labouring by the end and just wants to get rid of Dave.

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  44. They should have never given the title back to HHH by the end of the show. Jericho could have held it at least to the PPV and then lost it to Hunter if that was the way to go. The title was hot-potatoed a lot that year anyway.

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  45. Former NWA champion Gene Kiniski. Practically ruined that match. Turned 4 stars into 2.

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  46. He deserved Sting punching him in the face.

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  47. The Nation of Getting Dominated

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  48. I'd actually enjoy them if they were these dancing fools, slapping hands and trying to pump up the crowd and then did really heelish stuff in the ring.

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  49. Theberzerker! HUSS!December 20, 2014 at 9:17 AM

    Well, um...I mean...you know, wouldn't...you know...wouldn't...wouldn't, you know...wouldn't you? The man talks like he just got hit by lightning.

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  50. Theberzerker! HUSS!December 20, 2014 at 9:19 AM

    'Lil Natch is awesome, but Tommy Young was the king. I love that spot he'd do where someone (usually Flair) would bully him into the corner and he'd just slap-push them back and point to the referee badge on his shirt like "I don't care how tough you are, I own your ass in this ring, bitch!"

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  51. "Yep Mode" Abeyance Brown ©December 20, 2014 at 9:20 AM

    That's when his career really went down hill.

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  52. Too short. He'd be in the 3rd match fighting to double count outs with the likes of Duggan, Beefcake & Hercules.

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  53. "Yep Mode" Abeyance Brown ©December 20, 2014 at 9:21 AM

    That was just the prologue of how he would fall from a higher spot.

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  54. Uh No, Backlash 2000 was one of the best drawing B Show PPVs of all time because of the awesome Rock vs HHH match with Austin interfering. HHH Y2J at Backlash 2000 would not have been that high of a draw. Also, HHH bullying his way back to the title gave him massive heel heat. Also, this gave way to the awesome Y2J HHH that happened a few months later. the Y2J-HHH title exchange on this Raw was booked perfectly, and I wouldnt change a thing about it.

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  55. Black Bo Dallas's?

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  56. "Yep Mode" Abeyance Brown ©December 20, 2014 at 9:24 AM

    That would fit the whole "no heels or faces" thing Vince tried to put out there a year ago.

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  57. i always loved it when the ref got knocked out and then one was waved from the back but at this current moment im wondering if the interference of a new ref nullifies the match/contract

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  58. Theberzerker! HUSS!December 20, 2014 at 9:30 AM

    http://scontent-b.cdninstagram.com/hphotos-xaf1/t51.2885-15/10838605_1527692307485202_609223368_n.jpg



    That says it all right there.

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  59. Someone needs to review this things. Bayless, go pick someone.

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  60. That's right. Nice to know I'm not the only one. I found that match dull and his role in it was painful to watch.

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  61. I always liked Joey Marella. He was just no-nonsense and unassuming at the same time. Does his work quietly with no fuss.

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  62. I always thought that was a myth that they weren't sure Andre would job. He was a pro. Any verified truth to that whole story?

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  63. Young used to break rope holds by kicking the guys arm right? Why was that?

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  64. Ah, my mistake. I thought that this "title change" led to the Last Man Standing match.

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  65. Another cool ref move was sliding across the ring to make a count, but sliding out is the ring and counting while standing up on the outside. Dedication to ones craft there

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  66. Ive always heard about this slow count but I have never noticed. I think I watch wrestling wrong.

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  67. Wait a second. So you're saying you would've preferred a serious, credible gimmick than a bunch of dancing , happy circus monkeys? But...but..the gimmick is hilarious. You know, coz they're black and therefore MUST be stereotypical.

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  68. THEY'RE BLACK!

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  69. I think I did that wrong.

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  70. Yeah. He is short. Really great pecs and thighs though. Maybe he could have been a dancing friend of Hogans. Great hair. Good singlet.

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  71. You're missing my point. If the slow count truly added drama or anything at all to the moment, I would overlook the logic gap like I do many other things in wrestling. It is completely pointless and I've found it can subdue the crowd pop somewhat when a face wins.

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  72. His arm did this weird rhythmic whirly thing too

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  73. I believe referee Dick Kroll had the best three count.. and name in the business.

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  74. Then Bo Dallas could be the "Owen Hart" of the group.

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  75. It's like he has T-rex arns

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  76. Kayfabe-wise, I'd bet official incapacitation is provided for in the contract.

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  77. THANK YOU. This has bothered me since I was a kid.

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  78. I always found him hard to take seriously with his Kid n Play haircut. Give him long dreadlocks like bishop in the x-men movie. Or like kofi has or used to. I dont know I cant remember the last time I paid attention to kof. He could be headless for all I know.

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  79. Hogan was scared to death that Andre wouldn't do it. I would bet that he told Marella to hurry up and count ASAP when he went for the pin.

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  80. What I hated more than Hebner's slow count was how he would oddly hang out in the ring with the winner after a big match. WM 11 with Shawn and WM 15 with Austin are two good examples. Present the belt, raise his hand, and get out of there. He even buckles the belt on Shawn before Shawn has to literally shove him out of the ring.

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  81. Yeah. Whatever Hogan said about it, believe the opposite.

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  82. Charles Robinson is actually pretty good, and he's a WCW guy so that's not easy for me to say.

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  83. No I got your point. I'm just saying pro wrestling is full of gaps in logic and we all have different levels of annoyance with them. I hate punches like u hate slow counts. I don't care about slow counts and u may not care about punches

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  84. If anything, a gimmick like what was originally intended would have been perfect especially after Ferguson happened. It would have shown WWE was at least relevant with the times.

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  85. Extant1979 - Mr. Cable AccessDecember 20, 2014 at 10:16 AM

    ONETWOTHREEHEGOTHIMNOHEDIDN'T is a classic Vince McMahonism. I'd never trade that away.

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  86. Unless we're going full Blazing Saddles, the stereotyping thing sucks ass.

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  87. The pop when Jericho wins still gives me chills. I miss those days :(

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  88. You know, what? At first I thought you were full of it, but I have to admit - you know funny! That's fucking hilarious because ... well, it just is!! It's gold!! I tell you - if you can get together 20 more minutes of material like that I can get you booked in every improv in the country. Will you let me be your manager? Normally they charge 15%., but you're such a fucking talent that I'll pay YOU every month if you just let me represent you and hook my wagon to your star.

    Do you see your self as more of a Jimmy Fallon guy, or do you want to wait 'till Colbert takes over Dave's spot?

    Either way it's a damn shame - you're giving away A-material on a wrestling blog. Just tell us your pay pal address, because I know I speak for all of us when I say we feel shitty reading your bon motes for nothing. Tell us how to reward you for all of the hours of comedy you've so selfishly given to all of us!



    It's like you're saying what we're all thinking! Will you please tell me your sleep cycle so I can make sure I'm awake and reading this blog when your next bit of comedic gold goes live? I hate when I read something you wrote and then then see that it's been eight hours ago. You're on the cutting edge, and I want to be there with you!


    anyway, let me know your schedule because I already have you booked at the Comedy Palace at The Great Mall of America from Jan 12th to the 15th.


    your fan ( and future manager) ,
    ape

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  89. That's really brilliant. Even my wife got it.

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  90. Earl usually did the slow count in an epic match after taking some spectacular ref bump. I thought it was great timing on his part and really added drama to the match. Mike Chioda is the ref I could never stand and would make the match about him. Nothing but love for Earl though, the ref bump being over used should not detract from Earl's great timing.

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  91. He talks like that a lot, but sometimes he doesn't, you know? :P

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  92. Earl and Triple H did that shtick in 2000 and it was glorious.

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  93. Other than Tommy Young, I don't recall many referees who were so into the moment. Counting pinfalls from out of the ring for perfect angle, moving to the turnbuckle side of the apron to count someone down from the ropes... just all the little things.

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  94. I always hated Earl Hebner. I can't pinpoint exactly why, but he irritated the shit out of me. Part of it is that he always wanted to be one of the stars of the match instead of just doing his job.

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  95. I liked Earl, too. Took some of the most man-sized ref bumps.

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  96. That was one the greatest Raw moments ever. Triple H was king that year.

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  97. Probably his way of going "I'm tired of this shit. STOP GRABBING THE FUCKING ROPES!"

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  98. Clearly it's not his fault they over booked the ref bump.

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  99. You know you're marking out when you KNOW it's a fast count and you're pissed off that Hebner reverses the decision.

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  100. I can't watch that match anymore because of Kiniski. There were times I thought Harley Race was going to kill that man.

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  101. I always thought Nick Patrick was one of the worst referees. He'd barely bend over to make pinfalls and would do it in the most undramatic fashion ever.

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  102. That's too much to read.

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  103. Anyone who doesn't give up the puss to Vinnie Mac is the world's c-word-iest c-word.

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  104. People as talented as you don't need to read ---- we hire Mexicans to do that. Then we have interns translate it from Spanish to English. You've too fucking funny to spend your time with anything as "faggy" as "reading"!! Just tell me I can represent you and make you a star!!!

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  105. I wouldn't say people who read are "faggy". That's homophobic.

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  106. That might be because Hebner thought it was the finish. Foley called an audible and kicked out so HHH could pedigree him again in the tacks to make the win more dramatic. I THINK it was in one of Foley's books, but I may have heard him say it on a podcast, I can't remember which.

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  107. Watching Hunter's freak out and then finishing him on the tacks is epic. Part of me isn't convinced Mick's on the level about what was planned and what wasn't, but it doesn't take away from how awesome that match is, from bell to bell. One of my favorites of all time.

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  108. If that's what you into, I can have John Travolta sucking you off within the hour!

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  109. I see. You really put the "ape" in "rape".

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  110. I'm gonna go watch on the network right now. I don't think I've seen it since Foley told that story

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  111. For God's sake, why are you giving such killer material away for free???!!! Save it for your HBO special!!!

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  112. It's possible Mick's telling the 100% truth, but I just don't see him going "We just blew the roof off MSG for 20 minutes... oh shit, we forgot the tacks!" (kicks out) "What's your problem-uh?!" "Do it on the tacks!" "Seriously?" "Yes". Seems too... Hollywood scripted.

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  113. It also makes a real ass out of Hunter saying no one ever laid down for him. I mean even without the story, he's an ass for saying that, but it makes it sound even more ridiculous.

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  114. I'm sure that's Hunter in character saying that because his whole motivation was having to fight for everthing he earned and nothing and no one would give him anything.

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  115. I'm not so sure its him being in character, but I also don't think he meant this the way the majority of the HHH hating internet would like to characterize it:

    What do you say to those who accuse you of zealously safeguarding your position at the top of the card and refusing to help elevate wrestlers to the main event level?

    All the stars are at a certain level. You can't make someone a star by simply bringing other stars down. That's not how the business works; it's not how it's ever worked. The new stars have to rise on their own. What big star ever laid down for me? That's never been how business is done. Bret Hart didn't put Shawn Michaels over and refused to get beat (at Survivor Series 1997); he wouldn't lose the title. Now, that's not a knock: that's what happened. Look at Steve Austin. I remember when Vince said they were bringing Austin in, and he said, "He'll be a good hand, to help the other guys." Then, they made him The Ringmaster, and gave him those plain trunks to wear. And I was there at King of the Ring 1996 when Austin made himself a star, and then at WrestleMania (XIII) when he really got over. And, remember, he actually lost that match against Bret Hart (at WM XIII), but he got himself over doing it. I've never said, "No" to putting anybody over. But you put C.M. Punk in a 30-minute match with The Undertaker, it's 50-50 all the way and then Punk wins clean, the fans won't accept it. It does nothing for C.M. Punk, and it's also detrimental to the Undertaker.

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  116. The whole interview is here:

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=119917121

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  117. I actually like Nick Patrick's strange arm movements when he counts, he was also one of the refs who would actually sell the action in the ring (a la if somebody did a big slam in the ring, he would have this pained expression on his face like it hurt him), he's a real pro.

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  118. You can't just give us a teaser like that, you need to say what happened for those that haven't listened.

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  119. I feel like those guys could've been part of something very memorable if they were a heel faction. The New Day could come off as men seeking equality, but by sheer numbers (and the fact that they wrestle like heels) they'd make every situation unequal. Eventually, it's power that they seek, power that they crave, and power that eventually corrupts their mind.

    In response, black and white wrestlers alike could work together to stop their cause, trying to show fans that this faction is not working in good faith...they're just three guys who are looking out for themselves, and that they use oppression and subjugation as their justification to do bad things. This could lead to some seriously intense promos that, if well-written, could be captivating. Their babyface opposition could say that skin color has nothing to do with it...it's who they are as people, and that the concepts of greed, power, and evil don't come with a skin pigmentation. It's whatever that is within you...that defines who you are.
    However, because of the sensitivity of the subject, I could see how even the portrayal I explained could have negative connotations, because people would probably wonder "Why do the black guys have to be the bad guys?" It's a really, really thin line that I don't blame them for avoiding. Still, they don't have to be dancing, sweating preacher stereotypes. That shit's so stupid and passé' at this point.

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  120. So Andre weighed 150lbs that night and lived past 3 days?

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  121. One of my favorite moments ever was this one match where Vince did the reverse of his usual schtick and mistakenly called a 2-count on the winning pinfall.

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  122. Sorry. It wasn't the most engaging podcast as the two mainly discussed Punk's MMA foray and the TLC PPV. But near the end, Austin asked Dave how he'd like to see the network improve and Dave kind of went on a long-winded/slow-tempo ramble about promoting NXT more and having themes for each day of the week (World Class, WCW Saturday Night, etc). By the end, you can kind of hear Austin audibly sigh and then he says, almost hurriedly, "Dave, your website is? Your twitter is?", which is usually the go-home for a podcast interview segment.

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  123. To be fair, wrestling was different in the 80s when an old school vet was liable to shoot on you if he didn't like you.

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  124. Only 15 years after he lost the NWA World title and he's a washed up old man who can barely do a special referee gig.


    Nowadays he'd be headlining Starrcade in a triple threat match.

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  125. WWE basically traded one stereotypical and potentially offensive gimmick (that at least had the potential to be somewhat relevant) for an arguably more offensive gimmick that manages to be outdated as well as demeaning. It should embarrass VKM, but he clearly no longer has the capacity to feel that emotion. There's a theory that it's intentionally over the top and meant to be rejected by the fans so the three can go heel, but that would require a level of self awareness that I'm not sure WWE possesses. I'm cringing just thinking about the whole thing. The vignettes at the church, the fact that one of them is referred to as the "smart one" and making fun of Big E for apparently over perspiring. That sweating thing had to have come directly from VKM.

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  126. The possibilities for them as a heel group in the wake of Ferguson and Eric Garner are endless (if we weren't dealing with today's WWE anyway). They cheat, ref catches them they immediately go "Hands up, don't shoot" or "I can't breathe".
    Ok, so maybe not endless, but they could've gotten SOME mileage out of it.

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  127. I think that was probably because of Russo because Russo always loves to revisit Montreal just as much as McMahon does.

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  128. Tl;dr

    They should dance.

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  129. Thanks, haven't listened to it yet, but Dave's ideas sound pretty good, or at least better than what we're getting, so don't know why Austin would get fed up. Maybe Austin wanted Dave to show more love to the Attitude era.

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  130. Meltz has instances where he just rambles to the point you're waiting for him to get to the point, so maybe that's what happened.

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  131. Dave does have good ideas and Steve does like him (called him his buddy at one point). Austin didn't really go off on him but just sounded a bit bored by the guy.

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  132. Y'know, I think Danny Davis might have been kinda biased in his officiating.


    No love for Pee Wee Anderson? The times he'd fuck up some mark who ran into the ring were priceless.

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  133. IIRC, there were two reasons he'd do it. The most common was the heel using the ropes for extra leverage, for example in trying to block a sunset flip. Much more rare was his using it to force whoever was trying to get an easy rope break out of a submission to actually reach the ropes with more than just a finger/hand.


    It might be the one demerit I put on Tommy Young. As easy a pop as it was, I never was a fan of the referee making physical contact with the wrestler during the match. His routine with Flair/Cornette where he'd push them back was just tolerable, on the grounds that either he did that or he cheaply DQed the wrestler responsible (in Cornette's case, whoever he was managing).

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  134. TJ: accidentally watched Totsl Divas, TD John Cena is one of the greatest characters I've ever seen.

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  135. You probably hated him because he had all that surgery to screw Hulk Hogan in that match with Andre.

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  136. That would have made the match infinitely more rewatchable.

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  137. How so? I've never seen the show.

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  138. Pee Wee Anderson and Mark Curtis were both awesome.

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  139. TJ since there's no daily thread: "Pistons player draws Flagrant-1"



    What does that mean?

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  140. I've only seen a few eps, but Cena comes across as a type of father figure in the show and is always the voice of reason.

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  141. Yeah, he had a lot of surgery for that match, but what wwe.com doesn't tell you is that he spent all of the money on penis enlargement. Check the video if you don't believe me.

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  142. Aww...just like on other WWE programming.

    Wait, what?!

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  143. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hj6QoYTSPhQ&spfreload=10



    Ya fucked up, mark.

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  144. Flagrant foul 1 is contact considered unnecessary and foul 2 is an excessive and unnecessary foul.

    So after James Johnson dunked hard over Drummond last night, during the next possession, Johnson had the ball and was driving to the rim and Drummond intentionally knocked him down hard with his shoulder while trying to block his path.

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  145. Woke up and it was on live stream. This shit is hilarious.

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  146. Haha, I meant how is John Cena so great, not how you accidentally watched the show...

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  147. I wouldn't even say the original gimmick is what we wanted because I don't think neither guy can pull of a dark serious gimmick.

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  148. You're welcome.

    Happy Holidays!

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  149. You would think with all the pointers Gorilla gave Earl on commentary over the years he'd have improved.

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  150. Brie: being married is so exciting!
    Nikki: Can we get married and have babies someday?
    John: No.

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  151. John Cena *rents* ass from Arizona trash!

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  152. I also hated Hebner counting between the arm and body of the pinned wrestler, so the wrestler would raise his arm to stop the count. The only time Earl wound count there was specifically for that spot and I hated it

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  153. Cena doesn't want kids? But he loves the young'uns!

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  154. Cena doesn't want another Nick Hogan.

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  155. Opposite of that was Tommy Young's "count and check" routine, where he'd go


    Slap mat
    Slide hand to check shoulder down
    Bring hand back for next count

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  156. Oh. That actually makes a lot of sense because the world doesn't really need another Nasty Nick.

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  157. He's just so hilariously cold and blunt about it.

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  158. Cena doesn't want kids because his brother has cancer and probably fears that it is in the families genetics.

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  159. They uploaded another episode of Prime Time. Now if only they could do some NWA shows as well...

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  160. Gorrilla's commentary is a big reason why wrestlers not hooking the leg is a big pet peeve of mine.

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  161. That's too bad. I'm not a fan of Cena's WWE character but he seems like a guy who'd be a good father.

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  162. He already had a divorce and is apparently is not even interested in pretending.

    He made her sign a legal contract to move into his house.

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  163. I'm sure Cena is a good man, but the fact is if he has kids, he'd rarely see them just because he's on the road so much. Maybe Cena will plan to have kids once he retires or something.

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  164. Now they've gone too far in the other direction. Everyone in WWE always hooks. I liked the barrage of pinball attempts to tire the opponent, last seen from Sasha Banks at Revolution (fuck WWE's capitalization).

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  165. Yeah. I always remember Bret writing in his book that he was a hero to other people's kids all year (and his schedule was CRAZY, even probably busier than Cena's) but rarely got to see his own grow up.

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  166. Some of Meltzer's questions to Jeff Jarrett earlier this week were ridiculously long winded, you could hear Jeff's bemusement as he tried to work out exactly what he'd been asked.

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  167. Saturday, 6:05 is coming, I keep telling myself. Also, Saturday mornings: hello again everyone, Lance Russell here with Dave Brown...

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  168. I remember Lance Storm did this side by side comparison of how you're supposed to hook the leg to believably make it hard for the opponent to kick out and no one does it correctly nowadays.

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  169. Slow counts never really bothered me. What I can't stand are ref bumps.

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  170. Ref bumps are okay if used sparingly.

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  171. Thoughts on ESPN's new scoreboard they are using for the bowl games and on? I think it looks pretty cool, but very Fox Sports 1ish.

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  172. They have their place, but shouldn't be over used. Hebner did seem to be a more often than average victim of them.

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  173. Cena should retire when he's 45. WWE should be preparing for his exit now instead of in 7-8 years when he's about to retire. He can still work a handful of matches a year, but not be the main focal point of the show.

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  174. Lil Naitch dashing out to make a count never gets old for me.

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  175. I hated Nick Patrick's count because if it wasn't supposed to be the finish he'd basically put his hand UNDER the guy's shoulder. It always looked so weird and fake.

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  176. I always enjoy UT braining a ref and then dropping an elbow to really put him out.

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  177. I like the minimalist approach and I bet they start using that for all their sports eventually since it matches the new SC aesthetic but I'm crazy about the vertical size of it, looks kinda weird. I'm sure I'll get used to it though.

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  178. I'm thinking specifically of the suuuuuuuuuper slow count at HitC97, I thought the timing was perfect. You had 10 seconds between each count to scream "NOOOOOOO" at Shawn.

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  179. Three paragraphs?
    Also, does anyone care that it was too long for you, and that you didn't read?
    Sorry, tl;dr is just so fucking dismissive and rude.

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  180. Can't wait till Triple H returns and talks "jive" with them like HBK and he did with Cryme Tyme.

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  181. Check out Ole Anderson dogging on Dave Metzler on youtube. I'm not a huge Ole fan, but Dave likes to hear himself talk.

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  182. They're never getting the Memphis library so if any Saturday morning show made it to the Network, it would be Championship Wrestling From Georgia.

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  183. I'm a fan, especially since my first sight of it is UL-Lafayette winning the New Orleans Bowl. But it is a nice change, and should usually be neatly out of the way.

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  184. um...thank you? I never thought I was speaking for anyone's opinion but my own

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  185. Also cool: ULL's top rusher shares my high school alma mater.

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  186. Jesse Ventura once made a great point about how Earl always counted like he was throwing a baseball. Never understood why Earl did that.

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  187. Charles Robinson is the best "2nd ref runs down and slides in" counter on the planet

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  188. Watching NXT for the first time ever, starting with the PPV.

    I'm 60 seconds in and I already appreciate these announcers appearing to actually give a fuck about this show.

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  189. Gah just saw this after I posted something similar above but I'm with you on that one

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  190. The best ref is Rick Knox in PWG.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqOgoGEmr9w

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  191. They treat it as a sport, not as some hokey pokey circus act.

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  192. The Wrestlemania 24 main event is the best, when he runs down that LONG ramp.

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  193. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_1xfgZM-FE

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