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IC Title jobber


In the Smackdown main event, Harper the current IC Champ took the pin on a 6-man team with Show and Kane.  Are we all being played?   Is there some inside joke with the bookers about jobbing out the IC Champ?  Kane is worthless and Show has zero big money left to draw, so either could've easily taken a meaningless 6-man pin, or even a schmozz ending to set up a ppv.  Instead we get Ryback (feuding with Kane) pin Harper (feuding with Ziggler) thus helping no one.   On a side note, how embarrassed do you think main roster guys were after R-Evolution???

​Well every time they do one of these shows before a WWE PPV, the main roster comes out with an awesome show to try and one-up the developmental guys, so hopefully they're REALLY fucking embarrassed.  

And as for the IC title, I'm pretty sure he's dropping it back to Mr. Ziggles on Sunday anyway if that makes you feel any better.  If you're waiting for them to suddenly stop with the secondary champion humiliation fetish, I don't know what to tell you.  ​

Comments

  1. I'm not feeling the Ziggler regain of the title, myself. I think that WAS the plan until he shaded Cena and referenced Ryder on Twitter, but now? I think Harper is the safe bet.

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  2. It'd be nice if the guys were motivated to have a good show all the time, not just when NXT was destroying them. That's probably what Vince means when he says no one is grabbing the brass ring

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  3. Harper in under 7 minutes.

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  5. when vince says people won't remember something in six months, this is what he's talking about.

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  6. Virgil's Gimmick TableDecember 13, 2014 at 11:36 PM

    There aren't any bookers. Just writers. Therein lies the problem. They're "telling stories". Stories that don't make sense.

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  7. Question: Is Ziggler at risk of becoming the Beefcake to Cena's Hogan? I guess that could eventually land him a Starrcade main event at least.

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  8. Secondary champs taking pins in tag matches, esp. multi-man tag matches, don't bother me as much. You can explain the logic like they're out of their singles element so off a little, or whatever the fuck. It's still bad practice, esp. in this case, but overall they don't bug me as much as the 1-on-1 matches they always make that DON'T need to happen every week.

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  9. But do you have Ziggler or Harper this Sunday?

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  10. Honestly, does it matter if the IC champ gets pinned on Smackdown if no one watches it anyways?

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  11. I was thinking about this not long ago, and I think that's the problem with hiring soap opera writers.


    The problem is that soap operas is that they generally have a central set of characters who remain largely static, and then they have a set of characters and storylines that "happen to" those characters. These storylines, and those characters they bring in, go away after the story is over.


    They aren't used to these supplemental characters sticking around.


    So, you have your main characters - Cena, HHH, Steph, and a handful of others.


    The problem is that you end up with a story like the Wyatts -- Bray Wyatt tried to corrupt the lily-white hero John Cena. John Cena overcame.


    The problem is that Wyatt doesn't disappear so that something ELSE can happen to Cena. He sticks around, and now they need to figure out something to do with him. ("So let's try the same thing we tried the last 8 times, because corrupting the hero is all this guy can do!")


    Instead of soap opera writers, I'm wondering if they shouldn't hire comic book writers (from "hero group" type comics), if they're determined to hire writers at all.

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  12. It's only fitting that the Jobbercontinental Title will soon be back on the waist of one of the best JTTS of all time, Dolph Ziggler.

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  13. Remember when Randy Savage and Honky Tonk Man did all those jobs during their IC titl reigns?

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  14. Hmm, Dolph did briefly use a sleeper as a finisher for a while. The big difference, though, is that Beefcake was also The Man With No Name, while Dolph pretty openly introduces himself to everyone with a hearty handshake.

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  15. Yet, Harper in particular has spent virtually his entire WWE career in tags or six-man matches, so that logic especially doesn't work here. Hell, basically every WWE guy has been part of a tag team as some point, or (in this era) often teams with other singles wrestlers for tag bouts on a near-weekly basis, so everyone should be used to it.

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  16. While I think a lot of people might argue that's a bad thing, I'm sure the benefits for Ziggler outweigh (to him, anyway) the negatives for the fans

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  17. Theberzerker! HUSS!December 14, 2014 at 1:13 AM

    I said it doesn't bother me AS MUCH. Also, and I hate to defend them at all with this shit, but to be fair wrestling HAS moved on a little since the 80's...if you haven't noticed.

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  18. Just because it has moved on doesn't mean it's moved on for the better.

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  19. Theberzerker! HUSS!December 14, 2014 at 1:18 AM

    Not at all, but there's no use judging something now based on a model that has long since been retired by the company...despite how much both you and I want it back.

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  20. I think the NXT PPV was so good that it may have wrecked WWE for me.

    It was actually the first time I've watched NXT and now I'm going "I just want to watch these guys all the time now. Why sit through three hours of stuff I only sorta like instead of two hours a week of stuff I'd really like?"

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  21. Be prepared to flip shit :(

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  22. It makes no sense why they treat their champions so inferior. In fact, it's counterproductive.

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  23. Virgil's Gimmick TableDecember 14, 2014 at 2:15 AM

    That would be a brilliant idea actually. Hire some writers that know how to write regular characters. If Batman vs The Joker can be interesting for 75 years, they can make wrestler A vs wrestler B interesting for 6 months.

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  24. Plus comics are the artform most similar to pro wrestling. Heroes vs. villains, larger than life characters. Even some of the writing tropes are similar to wrestling (New villain debuts, gets heat by beating up the hero/doing dastardly things to force the hero to stand up to them.)

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  25. Comic books rely on a large amount of turnover from their fans to keep the stories fresh.


    Seven year rule is a comic book deal, after all.

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  26. I would say shonen anime (DBZ and the like) is what is most similar to wrestling because comic books have the issues of immortality and supremely dense continuity.


    Also, shonen anime is way more ridiculous and reliant on episode long fight scenes than comic books have EVER been.

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  27. I remember there being quite a few awesome TLCs, and they have a chance to get some quality matches this time.


    Cena/Rollins is my take for match of the night. Their raw encounters have been pretty good, and I think Cena works well with smaller guys that don't rely on extensive selling to create drama (which Cena just can't do).


    Wyatt/Ambrose is going to have to have a finish and both of them realize that this might be their last time in a match that matters, so they'll probably go all out. Plus, the gimmicky nature of it hides their sub-par wrestling. I'm not a fan of brawls, but I could see it being pretty fun.


    Ryback/Kane and Rowan/Show? There's no way either can go over ten minutes, so they'll be short, I guess?


    Nikki/AJ might be acceptable, given Nikki's 'improvement'. I dunno, AJ does her best on PPVs and there's a pretty okay wrestling angle in here (cowardly heel used trickery to steal the belt, hardass face wants vengeance and their title back).


    Usos/Miz Squared...uh...the storyline stuff might be okay?


    Rusev/Swagger...there's some joy in watching Swagger fail again.


    Harper/Ziggler, Ziggler will flop like a madman and Harper's offense is pretty good.


    I mean, this doesn't look like the card of the year or anything, but there's some potential here. And the important matches (Tables, Ladder, TLC) shouldn't be bad.

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  28. The 'no one will remember in 6 weeks anyway' argument makes no sense either. Just because you think people won't remember, why is that an excuse to book the most nonsensical, counter-productive outcome?

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  29. Rollins and Cena are the two best workers on the main roster so it should be good in spite of the limiting gimmick.

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  30. Ambrose was so casual on Jericho's podcast about stating they have no long term plans.

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  31. On the Hossameter (tm) Harper ranks below show and kane. It makes perfect sense.

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  32. He's starting to enter 2012/2013 Ryback territory. Which is a shame. I know the BOD has turned on him but hes one of the few things I look forward to on Raw.

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  33. Great analogy. Although I never heard of the steakhouse. But still, I get where your coming ftom.

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  34. I think they're saving Rusev for Reigns. They're going to need someone besides Rollins after lesnar.And that feud could go a couple ppvs.

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  35. Part of that is the relatively short amount of time per week we see these characters. Someone above mentioned Blacklist. Which I love. But it's a one hour show per week and only for 22 or so hours in an entire year. Wrestling catches up to that amount of air time in a month. Or less than two months if you're just watching Raw!

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  36. They could hire Stan Lee, Stephen King, and John Grisham to write scripts and as long as Vince is in charge, you'll still get the same stuff. Everything comes back to Vince.

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  37. Finally getting around to watching Steen Wolf. Pretty fun card. Watching the ladder match now. Whooo hoooo.

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  38. "Relive EVERY WWE TLC match on WWE Network, including The Shield's in-ring debut and The Undertaker's historic Chairs Match against Batista."



    WWE considers that Chairs match HISTORIC?

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  39. Raw's a TV show with wrestling, not a wrestling show. And most TV shows don't know where the fuck they're going.

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  40. Please be a Harper squash.

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  41. I actually wouldn't have minded if dolph was the one to pin Luke because it furthers the angle. But ryback....sigh...

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  42. WWE's bar for "historic" is low.

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  43. naah, this is the equivalent of complaining about the fact that the wealthy and big corporatiosn get away with paying less taxes than the middle class and working class. Everyone knows it is wrong, but the people in charge won't change it. Even as the belt bounced around from 99-05ish the IC and US title guys were not jobbed all the time. It is only the last 8 years or so (and the last 3 or 4 in particular) that it has become a running joke that the secondary belt champion WILL job in non-title matches and tag matches and the only time they win will be a defense on a ppv.

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  44. Yeah but the best ones do. Or at least make it look like they do.

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  45. and somewhat random. Not sure why I get the attrocious slammies from that awful Saturday morning show, but not some others on the network.

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  46. "look" is the key. Most tv shows go in with one story arc. After that one is done, if the show is successful, they have to struggle to figure out where to go next. That is why some are repetitive, rehashing the same idea over and over, while others just go waaaaaay off the map from where they started. It is the rare tv drama that has a 5 or 6 year plan going in.

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  47. I guess since it was the first chairs match between Undertaker and Batista at TLC that makes it historic...?

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  48. Biff Kensington IIIDecember 14, 2014 at 8:06 AM

    You can tell we are getting further away from the special on Thursday and closer to the main shows pay-per-view special tonight. The general attitude on the blog is getting more and more sour by the hour.

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  49. Sour by the Hour sounds like a show on the Food network that I'd totally watch.

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  50. "Mr Ziggles" said some nasty things on Twitter again, so he may be in trouble again. Maybe being the Intercontinental champ again will be his punishment though.

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  51. Eh. Was he throwing shade for real though? Or was it "throwing shade in character" while simultaneously advertising for Raw's slammys.

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  52. I'm pretty sure Vince said he doesn't think titles matter to Austin, and that was when he was talking about Brock & the top belt

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  53. Honky did do a lot of dq and count out jobs which got him tons of heat.

    Of course maybe you're being sarcastic, and my head hurts from two too many shots last night.

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  54. The ring would just explode if there was a Ziggler vs Tito vs Christian JTTS triple threat

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  55. The Shield's in ring debut was amazing and still Ryback's best ever match.

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  56. Unless its RVD vs Sabu, who even would want to see a "chairs" match?

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  57. They are incapable of just jobbing guys cleanly. The most telling was during Bo Dallas' initial push when they couldn't even have him pin Khalil without mixing in a countout finish. I mean, seriously?

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  58. BTW, great choice for an avatar. K&P are awesome. "A-aron!"

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  59. And HTM was unique, that was just part of his deal - he was a total coward that hung onto his belt through cheating and being a total weasel. These guys today wish they could recreate 1/10th of that sort of heat.

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  60. Batman and Joker's feud still wasn't as long and drawn out as Orton/Cena

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  61. And that match is mostly fun in a "Count The Botches" manner...


    Although I'd enjoy The Battle Of The Pussiest Chair Shots" between... Hulk Hogan and Lance Storm? (Storm's a definite, I'm not totally sure on Hogan).

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  62. Um...it's actually a pic of my dad in his days as a substitute teacher.

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  63. Theberzerker! HUSS!December 14, 2014 at 9:33 AM

    Sigh...I know.

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  64. The US Title hasn't been much better. Since winning it 6 weeks ago, Rusev defended once in a sportz entertainment finish to Sheamus, and the battle royal where Rusev looked like the babyfacist heel. Baffling what they do with these meaningless jobber belts.

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  65. Tons of respect for Tito. Wrestled 20+ years. Got out of the business healthy, and is now a school teacher in the Roxbury School District in NJ. Not too bad.

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  66. I'll be curious to see if they make Balor stop doing his zigzag-ish move when he gets called up. Or even before then.

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  67. I followed him on twitter briefly. It was crap joke after crap joke after crap joke. Incredibly hatable. He should be punished. The entire future of the WWE should be a boot stamping on Dolph Ziggler's push.

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  68. Your way was more correct. My way was more succinct. I will call that one a push!

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  69. Your dad was a sexy man.

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  70. "Was"? He's STILL a sexy man, homey.

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  71. They are hyping a slammy awards show that was a usa special on the Raws they just uploaded. Has that made it to the network?

    I gotta wonder how they possibly catalog and keep track of the millions of hours of footage they have.

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  72. I'm not a fan of the diving footstomp as a finisher. It'll be interesting of Hideo will use the GTS as his finisher.

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  73. That would be one of the worst things they could do to that guy.

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  74. Right now South Park is milking a one off joke about Randy Marsh being Lorde for five weeks. No way they planned that.

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  75. It's crazy because they keep them around to sell as toys. So why wouldn't they treat them as prestigious? Wouldn't a little kid want to buy a toy belt that represented something meaningful?

    If the toy replicas were around when I was a little kid, I'd love to have an IC belt because Mr. Perfect and Bret Hart made it cool.

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  76. At this point, done new boss should come in and strip everyone of their titles and start over.

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  77. Im so desensitized (I spelled that wrong because even mybspel

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  78. jobbing the ic champ is inexplicable and makes me sick!

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  79. I dunno. The fans chanting CM Punk all the time are smark fans, right? Pretty sure they know Hideo is the creator of the move.

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  80. Ignore please im retarted

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  81. They should steal the Zayn/Neville storyline and use it to crown Reigns champion vs Cena.

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  82. Stranger in the AlpsDecember 14, 2014 at 10:09 AM

    Watching SummerSlam '88, and after The Ultimate Warrior beats the Honky Tonk Man for the IC title, he later cuts a promo telling Honky that if he wants a title shot he is not hard to find. Then he says that he is getting on his spaceship to Parts Unknown.


    I had to LOL, because.....how the fuck does Honky find Parts Unknown if he needs a spaceship to get there?

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  83. It's crazy how important the IC title used to be. Usually it was either the belt for the best worker in the company or the guy they were grooming for a World title run (or Honky Tonk Man). They should rename it the jobber title. It would take a strong year plus run with a guy never getting pinned to rebuild that belt, it has been destroyed. Someone chasing Honky Tonk Man's longevity record with the belt would be a hell of a great "story" to tell.

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  84. Stranger in the AlpsDecember 14, 2014 at 10:11 AM

    Or you could get on a spaceship to Parts Unknown and never be found.

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  85. As I was trying to say... im so desensitized by them not caring about titles since the russo era, that it took a while and I really dont care anymore. So mission accomplished, I guess.

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  86. Thats great. Thats up there with donald trump and everyone clinging on hogan while he backstrokes the mid-atlantic or some crazy shit like that.

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  87. Either way, that is a cm punk move regardless if he invented it or not. You dont want a chance to give Little 12 year old Johnny Mark a chance to hijack his matches with CM punk chants.

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  88. Yeah, but Little Johnny Mark has the shortest memory out of WWE fans. Punk has been gone for nearly a year. Not sure the kids even remember him and they might be excited to see a new guy like Hideo, who has a babyface's moveset with his kicks and dives.

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  89. The thing is, the Russo Era still presented the titles as important. Sure, they were switched a lot but wrestlers gave a damn about them. They didn't job the champions in meaningless non-title matches as much, either.

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  90. Im right and you're wrong!

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  91. Ooh, and giving Itami the GTS again could also be seen as a fuck you to Punk and you know WWE loves to give those out!

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  92. I disagree. They are a respectfull and upstanding corporation. They tell me that all the time. Stand up for the Wwe! Do you remember that like 5 years ago? That was terrible.

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  93. I really like the inverted brainbuster that he pulled out at Takeover near the end of the match; he used that as his finisher in Japan for a time, could work well in WWE.

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  94. I believe "Stand Up For WWE (and support Linda's senate campaign)" was the official slogan.

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  95. I think there's something to be said for the visual appeal of the body paint. He's not coming out with butterflies or something pansy-like, but rather looking like demons and monsters. He looks like a comic book character come to life, which I think would appeal to the kids and teenagers in the audience, but he's a great wrestler and will appeal to older viewers and the smarks as well. It's really a no-risk proposition to give it a try.

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  96. What's really crazy about their de-emphasis of the titles is that it runs contrary to their desire to make the brand all-important. The WWE wants people to support the brand first and the wrestlers second, but the best way to establish this precedent is to make the title more important than the wrestler, to give the wrestlers something to chase.

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  97. It's true--Russo NEVER fucked with WWF titles like they do now. This is the worst "creative team" i've ever seen to be honest.

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  98. It's a little weird that they're not capitalizing on that. Rusev was a hot heel before getting the title. The US title could have bumped him into semi-main event status. He has a tangible national symbol that he is now defending and desecrating. I still think the endgame is all american hero, John Cena, standing up for all that is good and 'merican while defeating him in a match that will likely have nuclear heat. I would contend that it will be the first time in years that a "Cena sucks" chant wouldn't be uttered.

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  99. Yeah there would be a ton of botches in it, but at least they'd try to find innovative uses for for the chair. WWE on the other hand tends to put big men in chairs matches. This year its kane and Ryback, and they will probably boringly hit each other in the back with it for 5-10 before one of them stays down long enough for a 3 count. Yawn. Honestly they should have switched the gimmicks for the Cena vs Rollins and Ryback vs Kane match, because it would have probably improved both matches.

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  100. Carpool with Max Moon?

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  101. I think his Twitter feed is pretty witty, but that's because I think he's kind of posting things as a satire on tweets and their style.

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  102. Totally agree. in the Russo era, titles were devalued because they changed hands so many times--but you still had people feuding over the titles themselves. Now you have champions lose in non-title matches constantly and the title is barely mentioned in the feud itself.

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  103. I don't know. The importance of the title all kind of died for me when Godfather and Road Dogg were IC champions, and that was on Russo's watch. Jericho and Benoit tried to bring back its importance, but it just wasn't the same.

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  104. Didn't work for boogeyman, but I realize that's comparing apples and fish.

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  105. Those don't have to be mutually exclusive.

    And while it may not mean anything, he was getting a superstar showcase at SurSer, was pretty heavily promoted the night after and once those tweets went up, was back to jobbing clean in 5 minutes.

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  106. I keep forgetting that TLC is tonight.

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  107. There's also the fact that wrestling writing is slumming it on the level of writing episodes of BoohBah.

    I know there are people who dream of and would kill to be wrestling writers.

    Those people are not employed by the WWE. The WWE employs writers who failed at writing soap operas and reality shows who are doing this because it's a paycheck and they don't have to go work a real job for it.

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  108. I've said this before, but the sad thing is that it takes only one feud to re-establish the importance of secondary titles (and one feud to destroy it). For the last two months of 2011, the US title really meant something. Ryder wanted it, went through hell to get a shot at it, and even Cena offered his help to let Ryder get the shot. He talked about it relentlessly on his YouTube show. He finally met with Ziggler and won it. He celebrated. The fans celebrated. It mattered. Of course, it didn't matter as soon as Kane came a-calling a month later.

    All you need is a credible, respectable wrestler to show that he wants it and is willing to fight for it. If it matters as a possession, then it'll eventually matter, period.

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  109. Did you stand up for them john? I know I did.

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  110. That's a pretty apt comparison, too, DBZ resembles wrestling a lot if you think about it hard enough, but if WWE has trouble with Japanese wrestlers, what makes you think they'd hire Japanese writers?

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  111. Yeah thats what I was getting at. Whats worse? Jobbing the champions out? Or just handing the ic title out to anyone?

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  112. I made the point a few days ago that seemingly every wrestler in the company somehow loses more matches than they win. It's become even worse than 50/50 booking. Everyone is a loser: even John Cena feels weak with what is probably the closest to 50/50. And with all the tags and six-mans they do, the guy getting the pin usually does so against a lower guy or someone they're not feuding against, so even the wins feel irrelevant. Seth Rollins beat Ziggler on the Slammy show and that should have come off as a big win, but it was just another match. US Champ Rusev gets "protected" by just not even wrestling in matches every week, and when he does it's against guys like Kofi on Main Event.

    In fact with the champions I don't think there's a deliberate effort to bury them, its just the way they make everyone wrestle everyone else repeatedly it just works out that the champions lose so much. They take no care or planning to make the titleholders separate from the weekly scrum.

    And that's the real problem: overusing the guys. Everyone who's in a PPV match, if you work backwards from there the previous 3 or 4 weeks, every one of those wrestlers will have appeared on RAW & SmackDown--very often in multiple matches against their PPV opponent. That's 6 or 8 matches and/or angles. Remember the days when two guys set for a PPV match wouldn't even lay a finger on each other until the go-home show? It's maybe worst in the tag division as you will see numerous matches between the two teams, in singles, tags, six-man & 4-way matches leading up to the PPV.

    It all adds up to there being very few matches the fans get excited for anymore. It's why we're really all so grim looking ahead to WrestleMania. Other than Lesnar vs. whoever, what matches can they fill that card out with that don't feel like we've already seen to death?

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  113. I never had a problem with Dogg as IC champ. He'd been a key lower/mid-card guy for a few years and instrumental in revitalising their tag division. Far worse guys to throw the mid-card belt into. Godfather had longevity but I think that gets hurt by how he'd been different characters that whole time.

    For me the IC belt was still largely untarnished until the Invasion.

    The Invasion fucked up the significance of ALL the belts far, far worse than the Attiude era.

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  114. they loaded the 1988 show and the 1994 saturday morning show where Todd Pettingil did the slammies with this awful woman. Otherwise it is all stuff from the past 5 or 6 years up. I wanted to see the ones where Owen runs up and steals the slammy or Vader falls and knocks drinks all over someone.

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  115. "It's why we're really all so grim looking ahead to WrestleMania."


    Speak for yourself. We're* looking forward to:


    CAN the heroic undefeated Rusev continue to hold on to his title (and streak) against all these boo-sucks racist challengers? Will it be... John Cena?
    WILL the consistently awesome Goldust and Stardust be fighting each other in that long-rumoured/suggestedpromised match? It's been building for a long time!
    HOW will Rollins' MITB briefcase shake up the title scene - will he be the title-holder going into WM? And will he be in that rubber match with Ambrose?
    ARE Mizdow & Miz going to fight each other, or will they still be winning titles and hearts?
    NXT is changing up things on a monthly if not weekly basis. Who can predict which fresh popular faces will be taking part on Wrestlemania? WILL THE NXT TITLE be defended?
    STING versus anybody will be an exciting and fresh match.
    ANDRE The Giant will presumably get another memorial battle royale. Who will be participating, and will NXT be allowed in?
    WYATTS are being booked reasonably well at the moment and are now in singles matches. Almost any match with Eric or Harper will be fresh.


    Plus, since you mentioned Lesnar already:
    WHY were Brock and Rock on the an already released poster - could it be a rematch to their awesome Summerslam '02 match? It's long overdue!


    There's at least nine matches there that I've not seen to death, far from it.


    HOORAY! :)


    * We're really ALL looking forward to...

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  116. Yep. But then you get the majority that drift nowhere, then suddenly 'OH GOD CONNECT DOTS' finale time.

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  117. The problem is that most wrestlers nail the chase, but suck afterwards. Ziggler beating Del Rio was a great moment, but then when he had the gold he didn't step up to the next level. Same with Curtis Axel - you can blame bad booking, but the wrestlers HAVE to carry themselves as stars as well. Austin beat Rock like a jabroni in their IC title match, then gave up the title rather than lose to Rock, gave him a Stunner, and Rock STILL got himself over afterwards.

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  118. It was a big enough motivation for that weird-looking little fella from the three Lord Of The Rings films after all. You know the one I mean. Inhuman eyes, translucent skin and all that.

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  119. I think he's naturally unlikeable, and am baffled as to why they don't book him as a shit-talking heel who gets his ass kicked and squeaks out wins. Ziggler as present day Honky Tonk? That'd get the IC title back to a decent prestige and get over someone who beats the shit out of him in a sub two minute squash,

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  120. Elijah Wood! That's his name - phew, that was going to bug me all day.

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