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Lex & Sting 1995 BFFs

Scott,

I'm powering through Nitros in 1995 and am still amazed by the oddball Lex and Sting angle. They are best friends but Lex goes with the Dungeon of Doom and is kind of a pseudo face/heel still? It's so bizarre. Has there ever been an angle like that where someone is a heel but has a best friend face and they kinda walk that line for months and months?

Also, the main event of Nitro before Starrade 1995 was a Ric Flair vs Macho Man match for the belt! What a throw-away. Was the NJPW Starrcade a success or a dud? Guessing a dud since it hasn't really happened since.

Also Hulk is unbearable as the loose cannon with a chair while Macho Man is champ, always needing the last word or anything on every show. Awful.

The Luger-Sting dynamic was totally unique and I still don't know why someone hasn't tried to steal it since.  And you knew they were best friends in real life, so it made the angle all the cooler to see it playing out on TV.  Unfortunately they had negative chemistry together in the the ring, so the blowoff would have sucked.  

Speaking of sucking, Starrcade was a sellout in the building, but a massive, MASSIVE flop on PPV, only eclipsed in shittiness by the WWF's putrid IYH5 show.  It did 75K buys when they were running about 200K per show typically. 

And don't even get me started on Hogan.  

Comments

  1. "​Speaking
    of sucking, Starrcade was a sellout in the building, but a massive,
    MASSIVE flop on PPV, only eclipsed in shittiness by the WWF's putrid
    IYH5 show. It did 75K buys when they were running about 200K per show
    typically."

    These guys think differently on IYH5 https://soundcloud.com/newgenpodcast/in-your-house-5

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  2. They briefly did Shawn Michaels face teaming with heel/tweener Diesel.

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  3. I don't get the hate for IYH 5. It's a 2-hour show and about a quarter of it is taken up by a great main event. The undercard was crap but the Hog Pen match is at least memorable. It's certainly no worse than a lot of the earlier IYH shows.

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  4. Yeah it was decent for a B-PPV, but when people say it was a bad show, I think they're more referring to the awful buyrate.

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  5. Sting: "Pot pie and Mountain Dew in my trailer!"
    Lex: "Oh really?"

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  6. I'm the EDGY Hulkster, brother! I wear all black but still wear the skullet, dude! I'm a Vigilante (tm Sting, apparently)!!!

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  7. I've mentioned the Luger/Sting angle a few times over the last few years, and it's something I would love to see attempted again.

    The closest I can think of would be Shawn/Trips and Batista/Trips - Trips was the heel authority figure, but faces Shawn and Batista were friends with him. Those were very short-lived, though, as Shawn was usually only around for one night every few months, and Batista didn't last long as a face.

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  8. They tried a similar angle in 96 WWF with heel Austin hating heel/almost face Bulldog, partner of heel Owen Hart

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  9. I enjoyed the Luger/Sting angle, but it never got a good payoff with the whole NWO stuff. WCW lost a BIG opportunity for $$$ when they didn't run Megapowers-Sting/Luger at Starrcade.


    And those Nitros are insufferable as Hogan's ego goes on full display in handicap matches, promos, etc. The worst is when he, Savage, and Sting would be in the ring and Sting was clearly the odd man out, sort of like the kid in school that hangs with the cool kids but isn't really cool themselves.

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  10. IYH 4 was much, much worse. No Bret, no Shawn = awful WWF pay-per-view in 1995.

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  11. Im sure having Starrcade on a Wednesday night didn't help

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  12. 'Also Hulk is unbearable as the loose cannon with a chair while
    Macho Man is champ, always needing the last word or anything on every
    show. Awful.'


    Hogan has been unbearable since 1988...

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  13. It did have Shane Douglas being treated like a jobber so at least it had some comedic value.

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  14. How has Sandow/Miz not been mentioned?

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  15. Sting & Luger vs Hogan & Savage would have saved that show. Also, why not just run the USA vs Japan tourney concept on a Clash or something? That way you dont gamble a ppv buyrate on marks having any idea who Ohtani or Tensan are?

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  16. Late 1995-Early 1996 was the nadir of Hogan's wrestling career. He tried transitioning to acting and it didn't work out.

    People tend to forget that Hogan's initial WCW contract was only six months - July 1, 1994 through December 31 1994. The idea was that Hogan would do, at bare minimum, a quick run to use his star power to transition the belt from Flair to Sting and then retire to act. But Thunder in Paradise got canceled in the fall of 94 and the movie offers weren't coming. Hogan ended up being pretty paranoid about his spot and went from being a special main event attraction to being the focus of the shows. He was trying to do his 1980s superhero act in WCW and he couldn't pull it off.

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  17. I kinda feel like the deal with New Japan was probably made months before so they were kinda stuck with it, whether it hit the other stories they were telling. Like New Japan stuff wasn't on nitro at all, it read on Saturday night and the syndicated shows.

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  18. It was Christmas week though, so that's not that big a deal.

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  19. It would have been logical to do Luger and Sting vs Mega Powers at Starrcade rather than the triangle match but what would Flair do? You would still need a title match. I also think Giant should have been there. The WCW vs New Japan thing gave us a couple of good matches but everyone knew WCW was gonna win in the end.

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  20. Mizdow really isn't a face until he turns on Miz

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  21. Yes, and everyone and their mother has said that.

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  22. I LOVED 1995 Luger. Guy could be beyond amazing when he was motivated. Really look at those years up to him winning the title from Hogan at Nitro. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Luger pulling some pretty decent numbers?

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  23. And they aren't friends

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  24. 96 Luger was one of my guilty pleasures. I wasn't smartened up then and I just thought he was the coolest. I was a sucker for WCW muscle guys, I also was way into Scott Steiner and was way into Goldberg way before that was cool too. I'm ashamed of myself.

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  25. Right around the same time too. I think they lifted in from wcw actually. Both were cool angles but lex/sting was def better I think.

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  26. Luger in mid 90s WCW was way cooler than WWF's Made in the USA Lex. I hated when they changed him from the Narcissist. His run during the early days of Nitro redeemed him in my eyes.

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  27. I'm reading early issues of Chris Claremont's run of Uncanny X-Men and it's amazing how well he defined that world within that book way before it got bogged down into one event after another.

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  28. Yep, it showed that WWF really missed the mark on the guy and a lot of fans thought his main event credibilty was over after his stay at Titan.

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  29. Starrcade did give us the gem of the Luger/Chono match where Tony calls a shot "a mafia kick."
    Dusty: "Where do you get this from? He kicked him with a twelve and a half size boot, it's got nothing to do with the mafia!"
    Heenan: "Tony, he kicked the man in the head!"

    Luger hits an elbow.
    Dusty; "There, got him with the Sicilian Elbow!"
    Heenan: "Follow it up with the Yugoslavian Neckbreaker!"

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  30. I really miss the Sting-Luger-Flair dynamic. It was basically set up (in principle, if not in practice) as paper-rock-scissors; Flair Beats Luger, Luger beats Sting,Sting beats Flair, rinse and repeat. Set up the drama as 'can this time Luger beat Flair'? Nope? Oh well, he can still become the champ.
    WWE teased it once or twice in the early 00's with HHH, Michaels and Chris [redacted], but never quite settled into the formula. Pity.
    Be easy to recreate if they wanted to- Bryan beats Cena, Cena beats Orton, Orton beats Bryan. Rinse and repeat for two years...

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  31. Shawn/Cena, Shawn/Diesel, and maybe Eddie/Batista all had shades of Luger/Sting, IMO. Benoit/Shawn too. The Shawn examples are more "Tweener/face" than "heel/face" I guess but Luger in that era was kinda tweenery anyhow.



    Actually, granted one of them was retired, but post WM-26 Shawn/Hunter was basically Sting/Luger until Shawn turned on Bryan.

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  32. 99/01: Rock would beat HHH > HHH would beat Stone Cold > Stone Cold would beat Rock.

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  33. I'm sorry, but seriously?

    This is nothing new. Heck, Axis is so far out of continuity with the rest of Marvels comics it's ridiculous. And you know what? It does. Not. Fucking. Matter. Anyone who's read comics for longer than two minutes knows there is no line wide continuity that holds up to scrutiny

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  34. Same with Geoff Johns Green Lantern before it became event then event then event.

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  35. Dusty commentary, even if it was nonsensical, always cracked me up. The guy would just lose his mind and go off in his own little, ridiculous world.

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  36. Sting and Lex Luger are no Sasha Banks and Becky Lynch.

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  37. I really liked the subtle heel stuff Hogan was doing around this time too. http://uproxx.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/hulk-hogan-graveyard-promo.png?w=650

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  38. I won't be surprised to see DC or Marvel eventually wind down their actual comic divisions sooner than later. As a consumer product, they just don't sell well enough to justify continued production for the mega corporations that own them.

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  39. How did he not have a more successful movie career?

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  40. You're 100% biased and in gimmick, yet that's probably exactly what happened.

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  41. Shane Douglas and Cactus Jack acknowledged their history and friendship in ECW while Douglas was still the top heel and Cactus was a beloved babyface.

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  42. Yes buy events were rare, then they became yearly now they aren't even 3 months apart. I only read Justice League 3000 and Deadpool from the big two at the minute. I was enjoying God of Thunder but they decided lady Thor was a better idea.

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  43. With digital saving costs on printing, writers and artists being paid comparative peanuts, DC and Marvel are basically an r&d division that pays for itself, if not making a profit.

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  44. How did Lex become a full time face again? At some point he stopped beating up Savage every week and hanging around Jimmy Hart and the Dungeon. Was it around right before he challenged Giant for the belt at Great American Bash?

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  45. This. As long as TV and movies keep selling the way they do, comics are a "no harm" way to test a bunch of shit out and see what clicks, then reboot anytime they take it too far, with the live action media picking the bones of the best stuff for themselves

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  46. There is no bias here -- late 1995/early 1996 Hogan was awful.

    In October 1994 you can notice an obvious shift when the masked man who had been attacking him was revealed to be Beefcake (ugh). Before that he almost worked exclusively with Flair (including on a lengthy September European tour). Shortly after Halloween Havoc WCW brought in Savage and Avalanche (Earthquake) and it suddenly became the Hogan show.



    Think of him as doing Batista's early 2014 schedule (TV and some house shows) but then instead of leaving in June he decided to re-up and it became the Batista show. Hogan still didn't wrestle full-time in 1995/1996, but he was much more the focus of the shows than he had been since WCW knew he was staying long-term.

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  47. I'd say Hogan's last good match was with Vader at SuperBrawl V.

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  48. They didn't hype the World Cup at all.

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  49. What about Hogan vs. Rock or Hogan vs. Angle?



    And I think Hogan vs. Cena this year will surprise you.

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  50. Sorry for TJ but since no Saturday update yet, wanted to post this thought I have (I'm sitting at the DMV and it's hell in a hand-bag LOL). Here's an idea how to debut Neville, Owens, Dempsey, Corbin etc. in the E. Here's the idea : next time a football team is in the audience, the face world
    champion will be forced to defend his title in a "Lumberjack" match, with the football team serving as the lumberjacks. Near the end of the match, just as the face is about to retain, one of the players gets in the ring and spears the hell out of the champ. The player then unmasks to reveal himself to be said NXT superstar.

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  51. I think when the nwo formed and everyone else became defacto faces. But it might have been before that with Luger.

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  52. Last good match in WCW.

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  53. It was during the build to the Bash. It just kind of p
    Happened.

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  54. Kind of like TNA was with BFG this year.

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  55. I always thought The Narcissist was a perfect gimmick for him.

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  56. Re: The buyrate, I doubt it would have done jack with the promotional effort they put forth for the card, but I do have to wonder how much better the 1993/1994/1995 shows would have done had they not been on a Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday respectively.

    Wednesday has to be the most oddball date for a PPV ever, right in the middle of the week.

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  57. MaffewOfBotchamaniaDecember 20, 2014 at 8:26 AM

    Sting/Luger was sorta kinda done with Matt Hardy/MVP, if I remember.

    Either way, MattVP made for some great TV.

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  58. Yeah, you totally missed the point. The point is that they're doing the same plot at the same time.

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  59. Um, you know those huge movies making billions of dollars? Those stories started out as comics.

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  60. I think the Sting/Luger dynamic actually worked better because it didn't "escalate" or had a "blowoff".

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  61. WWF totally misused him and now they do legends round tables and JR blames Luger for "not connecting" with the fans.


    NO. You guys had the perfect gimmick for the guy... and you had to turn it on a dime and make him this "made in the USA" bullshit gimmick, with chessy hero montages and american flag pants and other crap. Then when you should have paid it off, you have the guy win by countout and celebrate like he just won the superbowl... basically yoko was too fat to get up and our "hero" is too stupid to break the count.... and you wonder why he didnt get over...

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  62. X-Men's charm was them being a family brought together by being outcasts. Now there are more X-Men than regular people in the 616.

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  63. which btw is a reason that people like me who generally love some of the characters don't have any motivation to read the comics because everything seems random and "interchangable" anyway (best example: why should I care if any character "dies" if it doesn't matter for more than a few weeks?).

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  64. Justice League 3000 is awesome, the current arc involves JLI era Booster and Beetle being found in cryogenic freezers.

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  65. Exactly. Try getting Hollywood writers to come up with characters, supporting characters, back stories, and get costume and prop concept designs for the money comic writers get.

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  66. I've been watching Nitro from the beginning and Hogan's act is just insane... screaming about Savage carrying "his" title (even though they are friends), sticking his nose in sting and luger's business when he had nothing to do with it, beating up half the roster by himself, having everyone else's wives walk him to the ring, and even telling his "friend" Savage that basically he was gonna bang Elizabeth after their match because savage wasn't man enough.


    Lets not even mention all of his cronies he brought in with him to take the spots of the guys who had been working hard and keeping the show going... US Champ One Man Gang... US Champ Jim Duggan... Zodiac, Shark, Kamala...


    There was a Nitro with Flair vs Savage with a world title change and sting and luger win the world tag titles on the card and the Main Event was HOGAN V ONE MAN GANG!! In 1995!!

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  67. It would be like taking Curt Hennig out of his Mr. Perfect gimmick and turning him into a singing cowboy who hates rap.

    Oh, wait...

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  68. DC is on cruise control at the moment; all the writers have been told to wrap up their shit by march so they can move to Cali and April/may is the massive two month "Band Aid" filler event which basically is a huge amount of fan service stuff designed to keep people buying DC shit while the company takes a two month break.

    Come June, the plan is for DC to basically have all of their books do new reader friendly shit as a jump -on point along with launching a whole slew of new books featuring Hollywood writers DC will now have ready access to in their new Cali home......

    marvel meanwhile is heading towards one huge fucking trainwreck with regards to Secret Wars 5, which by all accounts is going to completely consume EVERY marvel book for one entire year as far as every single marvel book being affected and tied into it.

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  69. Axis isn't out of continuity. Because Axis was cancelled/uncancelled with Original Sin tanked like it did sales-wise, it created a bit of a situation where marvel basically told Bendis to wrap up all of his shit while Axis ran so that when the X-Over ended, he'll get to address the new X-men status quo, which has the X-men once again in hiding and Scott FINALLY getting off his "humans are the devil" supremacist bullshit once Sunspot and Beast expose to him what the Illuminati are doing and how Scott can't fucking stay on the sidelines while the Illuminati pull their shit.

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  70. GL was a franchise that benefited from big events. Especially Green Lantern Corp, which was pretty dire when it wasn't doing the heavy lifting world-building wise for the X-Overs.

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