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RF Video Shoot Interview with Chris Kanyon, Disc One

This was filmed in 2009

The interview was conducted by Rob Feinstein

Disc One runs at One Hour and Fifty-Nine minutes long.




Kanyon is first asked if he was a fan of wrestling growing up. He said that his dad used to watch horse racing on Saturday's and that wrestling came on after that and he was hooked at an early age. He said by age 12 he wanted to become a wrestler. He said that he saw Hogan win the Championship at the Garden in 1984 then when he saw Ric Flair wrestle Ricky Steamboat in 1989 at the Meadowlands he decided that he wanted to become a really good wrestler. He tells a story of how he went to the Meadowlands show and his uncle was there and shit all over him for liking wrestling but after the end of the Flair/Steamboat match, he told Kanyon that he now understands why he watches wrestling.



He said that his parents told him he could live on his own and train to be a wrestler after he graduated high school or that they would help pay for him to go to college. Kanyon said that he wasn't ready to live on his own so he decided to go to the University of Buffalo to be with his friend and studied physically therapy. His senior year he got tickets to an indy show and talked with someone and ended up going to wrestling school after that and said that he lied to his parents about going there by saying he was at his internship or studying at the library.



On his training, he said that he went to the Lower Eastside Gym and got the shit beat out of him by one of the Power Twins from WCW fame on his first days. Kanyon then talks about how he watched a ton of wrestling from all over the world and that he had over 1,000 tapes in his collection. He said that Flair and Roddy Piper were his two favorites as a kid and said it was their talking skills that drew him towards them and even went as far as to make compilation tapes of them, even including every single mention of them throughout the show. He said that he knew someone who worked in the lighting crew for New York and Pennsylvania shows and they stole him one of the original "Piper's Pit" posters from the set that Kanyon still has to this day.



He met James Mitchell in South Carolina where he was doing indies at the time. He said that Mitchell is a weird dude but was a good guy who took a liking to him. He then talks about wrestling against Billy Kidman at that time and how the shooting star press is one of the scariest moves to lay down for.



Kanyon got some gigs doing jobs at WWF Tapings when he was training with Afa in California. He said that he told him in his match against Diesel that he had to make him look strong because he was going to get the strap soon. Kanyon that he didn't care what he had to do as he was on TV and after the match when they were backstage, Diesel went over to Afa and told him and put over Kanyon. He said that Diesel and X-Pac took a liking to him backstage as did Tony Garea. Kanyon said he told Garea he played rugby in college and said that Garea was in charge of putting together the squash matches at the time. Kanyon said that Owen Hart gave him the stiffiest missile dropkick of his life. Kanyon also said they critiqued him and said he needed to show some personality. He said that Bob Holly was really stiff with him and gave him a clothesline that gave him a sore throat for three weeks. Kanyon then said that he disagreed with what Holly did to Matt Cappotelli on "Tough Enough" and it made the business look bad.



He talks about how at that time (1995) was his favorite in wrestling as he was just breaking into the major organizations and learning and meeting from the top names.



Kanyon talks some more about the Kliq and how they would stand by the monitors and would bury or put over certain guys and recalls how one day he heard Scott Hall, after watching Jeff Hardy lose in a squash match, say how the WWF needed to sign him right away. Kanyon said he was jealous when Hall said that and would talk about how he and Kidman would tell each other what the Kliq would say about them backstage when they were in the ring.



When he was training in South Carolina at the Fabulous Moolah's school, Mitchell told him that they had to "work this bitch" and pretend like he had not already been working for a few months. Kanyon said that he failed at working her on the first day but Moolah had a sense of humor about it and got him booked on a show once. Kanyon tells a story of that show as Curt Hennig was backstage and told Kanyon that Sean Waltman was pissed because he did a moonsault in his match. Kanyon said that this was before he knew that Hennig was a big "ribber." Anyway, Kanyon went to apologize and Waltman told him he doesn't give a fuck then suggest that they rib him back and that Waltman starts tossing stuff around to the point people were running backstage to break it up but Kanyon said that he got so caught up in and started shooting on him like an idiot and yelled about how Waltman had made Wade Keller put him over in his newsletter to get a push, which seem to piss off Waltman. After the show, Hennig told Kanyon that he would never get a rib over on him again.



He said that he worked for ECW when it was "Eastern Championship Wrestling" as part of a hockey player gimmick. Kanyon recalls how Heyman told him to blow a spot in a match against Stevie Richards to set up 911 running in and chokeslam them but he and Richards did not fully understand what he meant or the business at the time and they just ended up mistiming a bunch of moves.



After that he went to Memphis. He showed up to TV the first day with Kidman, who drove down with him after Kanyon's original partner no-showed and they told Kidman that he was too small and did not use him but Kanyon worked with PG-13. He said that he was making $40 a night working in Memphis and shortly before that was making $70,000 as a physical therapist. He then said that he was still rough around the edges and did not understand the gimmick and Bill Dundee told him that hockey players are known for fighting and to go out there and beat the shit out of people and to not do his highspots. At the time, Kanyon said he was young and thought Dundee was a dick but looking back sees that he was just looking out for his career. He got his two weeks notice as the business was hurting and remembers Wolfie D telling him not to quit the business then telling him to head down to WCW as they were taping a bunch of TV Shows in Orlando. After contemplating whether or not to quit the business altogether after the office in WCW was not returning his calls, Kanyon said he was at a bar and talked to the bartender who told him that he should drive down to Orlando as he had nothing to lose.



Kanyon drove down to Florida and was in the arena as he bought a ticket and saw Head of Security Doug Dillinger, who both Kanyon and Feinstein said was a dick, look at him and walk over to throw him out but he saw Bischoff's secretary and asked her if he could talk to Jody Hamilton to get some work at the tapings. He got to Hamilton, who wanted him to go see him on May 8th at the Power Plant but had no work for him at this taping. Hamilton called Kanyon on May 7th and asked him where he was then when Kanyon said he thought it was on the 8th when he had to be there, Hamilton told him to come in a few days. He showed up and met with Mike Winter, who he teamed with briefly as the Men at Work team. Winter worked him over for several minutes as Jody Hamilton came out and watched briefly then went back to his office. Winter then trained the others as Kanyon was walking around by himself as he had nothing to do but was looking around at all the cool shit in the building. Hamilton then wanted to see him and Kanyon went to his office and had no clue what was happening as Hamilton wrote down six dates on a piece of paper. Kanyon said that Hamilton always looks down when he talked to you and came off a bit odd. Kanyon then asked if he could come down and practice with the guys during the other dates and that got Hamilton to actually look at him as he told Kanyon that was the best thing he could have said and he got to train. After a few weeks he was working with HHH, Terry Taylor, and Chad Fortune.



Kanyon said that DDP took a liking to him and helped him out at the beginning. He also said that Disco Inferno was really nice to him as well and they became friends.



He recalls WCW doing a cross promotion with NASCAR and they were doing matches on the street but it was raining outside. Kanyon was scheduled for his first live match in a tag against the Blue Bloods. He said it was also Bischoff's birthday and DDP invited him to a bar after the show. Kanyon said that DDP told Bichoff that he (Kanyon) might be something some day and shortly after that Kanyon was booked to face Johnny B. Badd on the Bash at the Beach preshow. Kanyon said that he was late to the show and thought the match went fine but was worried as he was late. When he went backstage, Badd thanked him for the match and then after that, Kanyon saw Bobby Heenan, who had his own dressing room, come over to him and tell him that he was going to be something in this business, which made him feel great and he was almost in tears afterwards then mentions how he was upset that Heenan buried him in his book.



Kanyon said that he thought Bischoff paid him a little less and did not give him perks like others got because of his friendship with DDP and how others would perceive him if he did. He talked about at the end of WCW, even guys coming out of the power plant were getting their cars and hotels paid for except for him and Disco. Kanyon also thought that Kevin Sullivan disliked DDP because he would push ideas on him.



On the "Who better than Kanyon" idea, DDP came to him backstage after he said it and wanted him to use it often. Heenan told him to compliment others before going into that bit but was fearful that Sullivan would get pissed if he started to do that so he decided against it, which leads Kanyon to think why Heenan buried him in his book for acting like too big of a star to listen to him. He then said that he talked to Heenan at WrestleMania XX to clear up the issue and that Heenan told him he understood.



He started to imitate DDP after he left wrestling for a bit. Kanyon said that Ed Ferrara and Disco wrote the angles for him and came up with the idea for doing Kanyon Cutters all over the place and even said that the plan was for him to do it all sorts of events like Atlanta Hawks game. Russo came back to the company and Kanyon said that they were butting heads and DDP might not have come back. Kanyon wanted Russo to drop the angle if DDP was not coming back and said that he had to man up and talk to DDP to sort things out because if he was not coming back there was no point of teasing the fans. After that, Kanyon was held off of TV for a few week then went home as he lost his grandparents and had to help out his dad.



Kanyon talks about how poor the morale was in WCW around the time the Radicals went to the WWE and a lot of the roster was calling up WWE and ECW looking for work. Kanyon said that he was going to ask for his release and even talked to Jim Ross before that and the WWE was going to offer him $400,000, a raise from his $270,000 he was making in WCW. Ross told Kanyon that he would not have to go to Developmental either. Kanyon said he went to Bill Busch, who had to go to a production assistant to find out who he was, and was told he would be seen in ten minutes. Kanyon said he was pissed and started calling Busch "Billy" and basically told him he was an idiot and how Hulk Hogan was bashing people as this was when he said that Kidman couldn't draw anything, then told Busch that the Westminster Dog Show was going to beat them in the ratings that Monday because no one knows what the fuck they are doing. He then told Busch that he shouldn't bother to ride coach with them on the flights in an attempt to bond because he hadn't earned or deserved their respect. Busch said that Kanyon could not get his release then Kanyon brought up how he said in a meeting that if you were unhappy they would grant a release so he challenged Busch, who claimed he would get back to him in a week, something that Kanyon told Busch he would not do, and sure enough, Busch never got back to him.



He recalls how he came up to Hogan and asked for his release and how he thought what he did to Kidman was bullshit and hurt morale. Hogan then told Kanyon that it was a work and he would be doing something with Kidman down the line. Kanyon said that Kidman was not told that it was a work beforehand. Kanyon then told Kidman that it was a work after that, something that Hogan did not want to get out.



On the creation of the Mortis character, Kanyon said that Bischoff told him, Bryan Clark, Glacier, and Ernest Miller how the popular things were Power Rangers, Mortal Kombat, and over the top martial arts characters and thought they could revolutionize wrestling with these characters and wanted to go as far as having cartoons with them. Bischoff initially did not want Kanyon in the role but DDP pushed for him. Kanyon said that he was taking karate lessons with Glacier and Wrath to prepare for the role.



Kanyon said that Bryan Clarke as Wrath, who apparently recently buried him, would take care of him at that time because Kanyon was not making much money at all, which Clarke was pissed at WCW for doing.



He now talks about how he was Bipolar but not diagnosed at the time and said it was tough as he was untreated and he could become violent.



When asked if the nWo or anyone else tried to nix certain storylines, Kanyon was convinced that one on "WCW Saturday Night" taping, Sullivan had the Faces of Fear shoot on him and Wrath in their match as they beat the fuck out of them. Kanyon said that he did not want them to think he was a pussy but also knew they would kick the shit out of him so he hit one of them hard but not too hard. After that, they worked a program and it was fine. Kanyon also said that if the boss tells you to do something, you do it and he would have done the same thing.



Kanyon also heard a rumor that Nash nixed Wrath's singles push. He talked about how Wrath can be difficult to get along with and believes he pissed off the Kliq while in the WWF and that was the reason why.



He talks about being gay and how he purposely acted homophobic in college so no one would know. He even dated a girl for a while so no one would think he was gay.



On helping train Kevin Greene and Steve McMichael, Kanyon said that Greene was cool but McMichael was crazy and a horrible wrestler too. He tells a story about being a bar when a girl came over petrified of McMichael, who was doing all sorts of crazy shit like snorting a line of salt and squirting the lime in his eyes then slamming his  shot of tequila as hard as he could at the back of the wall and kept repeating this over and over. Kanyon did say he liked him on commentary.



When asked about Dennis Rodman and Karl Malone, Kanyon said that Malone was awesome and trained hard but Rodman fucked around until Hogan basically had to threaten him and after that Rodman was fine. Kanyon also said that Jay Leno took it seriously though.



Final Thoughts: Decent stuff so far. You can definitely see the bipolar in Kanyon here as he was hyperverbal and took the topics in many different directions. Kanyon was and at the time of this interview a die-hard wrestling fan. It seemed to mean everything to him. Kanyon was not afraid to hold back and did seem inept at handling himself backstage but not a bad guy or anything like that. Disc Two will be up tomorrow.






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Comments

  1. I was in a cynical mindset during 2008 and didn't like it at the time, but looking back it was pretty good.

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  2. I definitely liked the period from Mania 21 through 24 or so.

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  3. 2007 has to be one of the best years for WWE since 2000. I believe WM 23 still holds the nitrate record for Manias as Trump gave them loads of mainstream pub. Michaels-Cena and Taker-Batista also made the show a critical success. Plus, you also have Cena in his absolute pre before the injury late in the year--the marathon title reign, two greatatvhes versus HBK and the moderate coated Classic against Umaga. There's also Taker, who was just then gearing I for the last great run of his career. Of course, the great asterisk for this year is Benoit. But that's something that transcended wrestling. Simply in terms of quality product, ought-seven was a fine year for WWE.

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  4. I liked 2006 between WrestleMania and SummerSlam.

    I also enjoyed 2008, especially the first four months.

    Only other time since then was the rise of Daniel Bryan, particularly with the Kane team. The last show I watched live was the Royal Rumble. Once Bryan didn't win, I felt like they just dont care about the fans. Havent seen anything to change that opinion over the past 11 months.

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  5. The people that say it is currently the worst its been crack me up... am I the only one that remembers a year so bad that Al Wilson did NOT win the gooker award?

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  6. For me, it went off the rails with that dreadful Orton/HHH feud in 2009. That is when I rapidly started to lose interest.

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  7. Lol wut? Do you remember the SmackDown Six? Multiple 4 star matches every week. Brock Lesnar vs the Rock. The return of HBK. The first elimination chamber. The WWE debut of Rey Mysterio. Matt Hardy, V1!

    I would gladly sit thru one Al Wilson skit per week for that.

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  8. If I had to timeline it this millennium.....


    Jan 00-Apr 01: the golden age


    Apr 01-Mar 02: always something happening, felt like an 'event' in spite of glaringly rough spots


    Mar 02-Mar 04: transitional phase where Raw sunk, particularly throughout 2003


    Mar 04-Apr 06: resurgence for Raw, Smackdown becomes 'eh', mostly exciting


    Apr 06-Jun 07: earnest attempt to recreate the Attitude era, show was still very watchable


    Jun 07-Jul 08: black cloud of Benoit dampens a decent product that begins to fade


    Jul 08-Jun 09: shitty developmental call-ups, PG switch, too many main event holdovers


    Jun 09-Jun 11: guest hosts, too many Lauritinaitis faves (big bodies) populate tedious shows


    Jun 11-Jul 12: Punk, Bryan pushes, Shield debut create new buzz in spite of upper resistance


    Jul 12-Apr 14: paint-by-numbers booking with enough good use of talented indy alums


    Apr 14-now: life without Punk, Bryan sees reliance on Ambrose, Rollins, Ziggler, Wyatt (good!)


    As for the best eras listed, besides the first one, the 04-06 era was really enjoyable, and I didn't mind the Attitude-lite product in 06-07. If the actual Attitude era grades as a 10 out of 10, then 04 to 07 is an earnest 8.5.


    I've mostly enjoyed this year, but I'll admit it hasn't been a totally satisfying product. The 12-14 era was mostly alright aside from the company spinning its wheels over Bryan. Anything else, your mileage may vary.

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  9. The years where DX formed, then Y2J showed up all the way to the Radicals being in the front row on Raw I could not have loved wrestling more. Then my fandom was CRUSHED by the disappointment of the WCW invasion which I was dreaming and fantasy booking in my brain for years. Pretty sure that's when I became a cynical whiny wrestling fan

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  10. 2002 to 2004 Smackdown before Raw raped them of talent post WM20. Amazing wrestlers, amazing matches.

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  11. 2003 was pretty bad and 2012 had some bad stuff.


    Jan-May of this year was good but it has been dreadful since after SummerSlam

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  12. I wasn't around in 2005, but damn 2000 was one of my favorite years in wrestling. WWF was hitting on all cylinders for me with the debut of the Radicalzm and the rise of The Dudleys, Angle & Jericho, the TLC match.. What a ridiculous year to be a fan.

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  13. Yeah, WWE after Mania 21 felt pretty fresh with Cena and Batista on top and Edge underneath etc. Then I guess around Mania 24 or so it turned into Cena vs Orton vs HHH main events on every PPV for 2 years straight.

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  14. Nice recap, Bayless! Keep up the good work!

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  15. Loved Rated RKO.

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  16. I think I liked parts of 2008. I liked WM24, the Jericho/HBK feud, Edge's title reign, Hardy's title win and matches with HHH, Punk held the title that summer. I may be mixing in some 2009 there.

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  17. I loved the Hardy/Punk feuds. One of the most underrated feuds in WWE history

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  18. eh, fixable error. Was juggling numbers in my brain

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  19. I still remember Artie Lange impersonating Bischoff in that segment.

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  20. You know, that...unpleasantness.

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  21. I'll have to parrot others and say 2008 was pretty fucking good.

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  22. Yup. Mania 23 was a beast, Cena was probably at the height of his star power (and nowhere near stale yet), Batista was still a big deal, Taker and HBK were being used really well as was Edge and Orton, and the ECW brand was... well it had CM Punk.


    The Benoit murders and the steroid scandal (didn't half the roster get suspended that fall) really fucked the company in a major way. They kinda haven't recovered from all the fans they lost after benoit.

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  23. "Havent seen anything to change that opinion over the past 11 months."

    And you don't see a shred of irony in using the 2014 Royal Rumble as your example here, given what happened immediately after it, huh?

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  24. I remember Volkoff as the butt monkey of the Million Dollar Corporation. Was this some mean spirited rib or was this planned by both parties?

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  25. Just to letter grade each year for the fuck of it:


    2000: A+
    2001: A-
    2002: B
    2003: D+
    2004: A-
    2005: A-
    2006: B+
    2007: C+
    2008: B+
    2009: D
    2010: C-
    2011: C+
    2012: C-
    2013: C+
    2014: C+

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  26. Taped less than a year before he killed himself. Sad and kind of creepy. Gotta wonder what happened.

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  27. The TV shows were great, but I thought a lot of the PPVs were pretty disappointing.

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  28. I think 2002 deserves a C. Yea, the SD Six ruled but RAW was beyond unwatchable.


    And an A- for 2004? Did you see Smackdown?

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  29. What PPVs were disappointing besides Mania and KOTR?

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  30. Dude. What the hell? Don't you know these recaps are supposed to be filler?

    heh.

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  31. By objective measures- overall quality, good storylines top to bottom, roster depth, etc.- it was a great year. But the visceral feeling of watching that year wasn't anywhere near what, say, 2000 was. There wasn't that one thing, or that one guy, who had me totally mesmerized. Jericho's super-serious heel run against HBK was an amazing feud, the Edge/Taker stuff was great, Triple H was great as the babyface champ, the rise of Jeff Hardy...lots of great stuff, but no '98 Austin, '00 Rock or '14 Bryan to be found.
    But maybe that's not a bad thing. Maybe that kind of roster and storyline depth and top-to-bottom quality with the brand being the draw is what the goal should be.

    I think '92 and '08 are really similar years in a lot of these ways.

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  32. I heard Volkoff had spent all of his money and was given a pity job in 1994 and the whole locker room hated him because of it, so I assume he played the butt monkey to help pacify most of the guys in the locker room.

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  33. By business numbers, 2000 since it's steadily gone downhill since then.

    For me, nothing recent is close to summer 1999-most of 2001.

    I had a brief revival 2004-06, but there was still a lot of bad in that era. Plus, I hated the brand split, mostly because it was difficult for me to watch SD in the early days, combined with Raw in mid-2002 to 2003 being really really terrible. Like far more terrible than Raw is today.

    Once the kiddy era started like 07-08, I was done.

    And now I'm only vaguely interested in the current product because of the Network, mostly. And Lana, who is like the heel I wish I could be.

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  34. The last great era was Smackdown from late 2002 to the draft lottery 2004, IMHO

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  35. Royal Rumble was amazing, No Way Out was too. Backlash is untouchable and a fantastic continuation of the Rock/Austin saga. Fully Loaded was the pinnacle of a superb undercard. Judgement Day had an insane main event and Summerslam was captivating stuff. No Mercy gave us a double main event that delivered on both fronts.

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  36. Mania and King of the Ring are the dud shows. I don't know if I've ever seen Survivor Series but I think everyone figured that would suck going in

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  37. Can't remember the B-PPVs, I think Backlash was one of the best B-PPVs they ever produced. And Survivor Series was really bad too. The B-PPV (think it was Unforgiven) where Angle got buried by HHH left a really bad taste in my mouth too. Also Armageddon 2000 was really disappointing, despite it looking like a good card on paper.

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  38. April 2002 was a pretty excellent month except for that one time Hogan couldn't get Undertaker's motorcycle to go.

    The whole lead up to SummerSlam 2005 was gold as well, and the PPV numbers proved it.

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  39. Yea, Unforgiven was kind of a letdown. I remember Armageddon not looking great on paper since they put all the good guys in the main event and left Benoit with Billy Gunn

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  40. In 2000? WM2000, KOTR and a couple of the fall ones are the only ones I remember being less than awesome.

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  41. The B-PPVs were great for the most part, but I guess the fact that they couldn't deliever on their biggest PPV of the year makes me generalize the PPVs as a whole for that year.

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  42. Lol oh yeah, I forgot, I was thinking Armgeddon 2001. Stupid memory.

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  43. Just my opinion, but I'd say that Nicolai Volkoff wasn't as good as Nikita Koloff.

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  44. I think if Rock or Foley win, people would like Wrestlemania. HHH winning just sucked the life out of the show.

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  45. I don't know, it's still a pretty weak show no matter who won. It would definitely be remembered more fondly, no doubt, simply because the heel doesn't win the goddamn WrestleMania main event.

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  46. I am a troll.

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  47. I think a storybook ending helps elevate a weak Wrestlemania. HHH standing tall makes a eh Wrestlemania worse.


    Stephanie's outfit that night...holy shit

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  48. I wonder if him being out of wrestling led to that. He seemed to love it and he was all done when this interview aired

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  49. Mental illness can be enough in and of itself. I have a couple of relatives who are bipolar. It's nothing to fuck around with. I feel for the guy.

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  50. I always sort of perversely enjoyed Dibiase calling him "Nickel and Dime" Volkoff. I'm not even sure if that's objectively funny or not, but it always made me chuckle for some reason.

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  51. That Hogan/Taker feud made me hate wrestling so much.

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  52. April and may was dreadful cept for the awesome matches RVD and Eddie gave us as well as Angle and Edge

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  53. Koloff was very good, but I never bought him as a Russian. Not that it matters since they're all fake Russian in rasslin.

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  54. This is one time where you're spot on. That was the single most deflating ending to a WrestleMania ever.

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  55. Rule 9426: the grade of the promotion can exclude the B-show, as the A-show is where the focus goes.


    I concur that Smackdown was mostly rough in 2004, but Raw was just that awesome. I'd take 2004 Raw over 2002 Smackdown anyday. You had the great matches *with* story.

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  56. That stretch after Raw moved back to USA in 05/06 was pretty great, and WWE was getting its best ratings since 2001. July was when it started to really go off the rails, though.

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  57. Yeah, when I think of "Scandal", I think of Watergate. I think of CCNY. I don't think of Chris Benoit.

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  58. YankeesHoganTripleHFanDecember 11, 2014 at 11:59 AM

    On a semi related note you have to admit that the Russian National Anthem is pretty badass. Seriously go listen to it being played in Rocky IV.

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  59. That entire timeframe from April-August 2009 was a really good stretch for Smackdown.

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  60. Fantastic stuff. I remember nerd raging when Punk lost at NoC but that was really me being a mark who was upset that my favorite wrestler lost a fake fight.

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  61. For my money it wasn't just 2000, but about 1997 to 2003, with 2000 being the peak. Yeah, there was always some stupid stuff happening, some angles I didn't like, some guys I didn't like getting pushed instead of the guys I did like, but on the balance, there was way more I liked than not.



    Wrestling was appointment television for me for almost 5 years. I doubt it ever will be again unless something drastic happens. Being a corporation subject to strict advertiser's guidelines and stockholder happiness, WWE just doesn't have the leeway to explore new things that might be successful. They have to maintain their safe-zone numbers, and that means going to the security blanket guys and storylines that are tried, tired, and true. Nothing can be violent, nothing can be edgy, and nothing can be experimental. They would never be able to do any of the things that won them the Monday Night Wars on television today.

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  62. I was at that show. It SUCKED. And then I went to Smackdown where Punk lost again!

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  63. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=087mi1e46us

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  64. I wonder how much heat WWE would get if they toured Russia and Rusev would have the Russian anthem play only for a guy like Jim Duggan to come out and put a stop to it because that's how things are done in America.

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  65. The faux DiBiase million dollar man jacket with the cent sign was awesome.

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  66. Is there actual, tangible proof that Benoit's "Weekend from Hell" caused the needle to move in a negative fashion? I guess I'm only challenging this because Wrestlemania 24 was still over 1 million buys.

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  67. It's really a beautiful song, especially when its sung. Far better than the impossible to sing in tune with murderous propaganda Star-Spangled Banner

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  68. You know I really loved 2002. There were great matches happening all the time. As a life long Flair fan I loved seeing him back in the zone until he was hastily turned heel. Guys like Edge, Benoit, Angle all came into their own. Summerslam 2002 is one of the PPV's ever. Hell I didn't even mind Hogan, it was fun seeing him back. Smackdown for the last 6 months of the year was amazing TV.

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  69. I thought RAW was worse in 2010 than 2009.

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  70. I wonder if 'Taker feels bad for that horrifying chairshot on Kanyon in 2002 or 2003.

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  71. Ironically, the two biggest stars ever in wrestling (Stone Cold and The Rock) were very, very popular during that timeframe. You don't happen to be a frontrunner, do you Mike? :)
    In all seriousness, I think what you're saying is the general fan consensus.

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  72. Homeslice, she's just a Florida Gators Cheerleader who can cut a promo. It won't take much to eclipse her.

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  73. ... HHH/Orton with the "concussion" storyline was A-?


    I'd agree with most of the year getting an A-, but overall it's a B at best.

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  74. if all it takes is one storyline to sink a grade, then I'd think Rikishi being revealed as the driver that hit Austin should sink 2000 then. It doesn't, and neither does the concussion angle (which I didn't even think was terrible)

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  75. I know that I stopped watching for a long time after it.

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  76. See, this is why NWA kicked ass with their Russian heels. At least they were believable!
    Regarding Koloff....even if he was smaller than Volkoff, he was far more scary and intimidating.

    ReplyDelete
  77. If Jamie Kellner hadn't canceled WCW on TBS/TNT, you have to believe they wouldn't be as bad as the WWE is right now.

    ReplyDelete
  78. I actually find the Russian National Anthem very haunting.

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  79. I have to believe that? Because I don't. So what happens to me now?

    ReplyDelete
  80. ... does Dixie still wind up buying into WCW? Because if so, it's still a disaster. Just a different timeline/possibly different players involved.

    ReplyDelete
  81. The SIX INCH CHOKESLAM OF DOOM!

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  82. Um... no Christmas presents?

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  83. I don't think she would have wound up buying in, but if she did, then you're right.

    ReplyDelete
  84. I took a break too, definitely. I think I came back by No Mercy 2007.

    ReplyDelete
  85. Koloff is far and away the best Russian heel.

    ReplyDelete
  86. YankeesHoganTripleHFanDecember 11, 2014 at 12:48 PM

    Question: Does anyone know the reasoning in 05 to push Cena as the companies top star over Batista. The Batista/Triple H story line had been the top storyline heading into Wrestlemania, Batista had headlined Mania, as I recall was mega over, and was coming off the best match of his life in the Cell with HHH. The the next day Cena was on the top show, Batista was on the secondary show and that was that. So...what exactly happened?

    ReplyDelete
  87. YankeesHoganTripleHFanDecember 11, 2014 at 1:05 PM

    Triple H masturbated on Raw? Wow I DID drink a lot in 03 to have blacked that out.

    ReplyDelete
  88. They were already starting to turn on Botchtista by the time of the JBL feud.

    ReplyDelete
  89. It's what brought be back to wrestling after a period of not giving a fuck.

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  90. It wasn't a good way to capitalize on Hogan's title win at all. Besides, Hogan/Taker had been done like a decade earlier. He had plenty of other good matches with guys like Angle and Lesnar later that year.

    ReplyDelete
  91. For the record, he did NOT actually pull his penis out and jerk off on air. It just felt like he might as well have done that most weeks.

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  92. YankeesHoganTripleHFanDecember 11, 2014 at 1:09 PM

    Regardless I can still hardly remember Raw in 03 due to the drinking. I remember one night hearing Nash's music play right before I passed out on the couch.

    ReplyDelete
  93. THE BOOGER RED SHITTY CHOKESLAM OF HIDEOUS AGONY!

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  94. YankeesHoganTripleHFanDecember 11, 2014 at 1:10 PM

    Batista/Orton would have been a good feud based on their history in Evolution.

    ReplyDelete
  95. Batista as Smackdown Champ vs Cena as Raw Champ, to coincide in marketing with the Smackdown vs Raw game. Cena goes over clean.

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  96. With the way their creative team shackles the talent when it comes to promos and stuff, I'd say no. You need huge personalities to trigger a boom period, and Vince is scared to death to let anyone get that big again.

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  97. Didn't Volkoff peak a little before Hulkamania anyway?

    ReplyDelete
  98. YankeesHoganTripleHFanDecember 11, 2014 at 1:12 PM

    Say this for Cena and Batista...they had pretty good chemistry in the ring.

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  99. I think Batista was the #1 guy they backed originally otherwise Cena would have won the Rumble match earlier in the year. Batista ended up pulling a Dolph Ziggler by making disparaging remarks about the Smackdown brand so in a effort to humble/punish him, he was sent to Smackdown to feud with all the B+ players whereas Cena moved to Raw and feuded with all the A+ talent.

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  100. Whoa, party on dude!

    ReplyDelete
  101. YankeesHoganTripleHFanDecember 11, 2014 at 1:16 PM

    In my defense I was working in the restaurant business at the time. Compared to some of my co-workers I was one of the sober ones.

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  102. He at least had a lovely singing voice and a wicked red windbreaker.

    ReplyDelete
  103. Yeah I loved the Mania 26 match and the promos leading up to it.

    ReplyDelete
  104. God damn, I was just going to make that joke.

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  105. That's probably why you're still a Triple H fan.

    ReplyDelete
  106. Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades!


    *sweet, been wanting to use that one at the appropriate time*

    ReplyDelete
  107. I'm guessing Batista-Orton, Taker-Angle and MitB with Eddie and Rey were in the cards.

    ReplyDelete
  108. That Cena celebration in front of the group of guys in "Cena Sucks" shirts is my favorite Cena moment.

    ReplyDelete
  109. well they had that rap album coming out and The Marine in the can

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  110. Mitch, The GodfatherDecember 11, 2014 at 1:36 PM

    Raw in 2009 went to crap after WM 25. I really liked the Orton/HHH storyline and I never hated the fact that HHH won. It reminded me of the Flair/Undertaker feud in 2002. I believe Scott said he was disappointed because Undertaker did all that stuff to Flair and his family and friends and you would expect Flair to get the win at WM but he didn't. I wish either somehow Orton was the champion leading to WM or somebody else be champ and just let them two fight. Maybe have Undertaker win the title at EC instead of HHH.

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  111. well if WCW stayed in business WWE wouldn't have gotten to not push RVD and begin their whole "not push the guy who's hot b/c of politics" thing they've been doing the last decade or so

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  112. I feel like we've discussed this a million times. Not quite Mount Rushmore, but still a lot.

    ReplyDelete
  113. 2008 was a very underrated year for WWE. Raw, SD, & ECW were all separate brands and all putting on good shows weekly, w/o the redundancy of repeated stories and matches that we have now.

    ReplyDelete
  114. It'll take a REAL #2 company, not Dixie's Misfits. Which is why I'm still optimistic towards GFW, IN SPITE OF who's at the top.

    ReplyDelete
  115. ECW was great that year too. Morrison & Miz as tag champs was glorious

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  116. Okada & Tanahashi? lol

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  117. I guess we can finally say that Triple H's "business is cyclical" comment is complete bullshit.

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  118. MaffewOfBotchamaniaDecember 11, 2014 at 1:45 PM

    2008.

    Not a single bad PPV and (mostly) everything was booked brilliantly.

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  119. Yep. Punk to UFC (even if he falls flat on his face) is only going to make this worse. Here you have a guy who had his own way of doing things and stands out as a result. And now he goes to the competition.

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  120. 2004 was great if you pretend Smackdown didn't exist.


    Unfortunately, due to circumstances beyond our control, we now pretend that Raw didn't exist.

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  121. I feel like you need a #2. It feels like 2011 was the last shot at it, but there was no competition, so status quo carried the day.

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  122. They really didn't though. Maybe it was the constant injuries but fans didn't turn on Batista until this year.

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  123. I'm thinking Jarrett, as in GFW being its own company. NOT their cross-promotional stuff, those events I'm truly looking forward to come 2015.

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  124. Cornette says that too.

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  125. and a 30 year old Magnum (TA)

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  126. MaffewOfBotchamaniaDecember 11, 2014 at 1:50 PM

    Amazing the angles and gimmicks that made it on TV that were just ribs.

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  127. SD was great until after WMXX

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  128. sorry, I was being a sarcastic prick

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  129. Dixie didn't buy anything, Big Daddy Carter did

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  130. MikeyMike, JuggernautDecember 11, 2014 at 1:55 PM

    It's been said lower in the thread but 2008. I'd actually stretch that period from No Mercy 2007 til WrestleMania 25.

    ReplyDelete
  131. Kanyon really killed himself to get in WWE.


    I bet he died to know why they fired him.

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  132. I'd argue it's accurate... but only to a midpoint. The "cyclical" part assumes you're booking a WRESTLING product, and that once a star (or group of stars) is phased out (age, other pursuits, etc...), business will go down if it hadn't already done so. Then, once the next "generation" of stars is ready, business can begin climbing back up.


    The trick is to keep the "valleys" short and minimally damaging, and ride those "peaks" as long as possible, WITHOUT pushing yourself into a deeper valley in the future.


    It's a damn hard act to pull even when you have all the power, much less when you're just a bigger cog in a machine.

    ReplyDelete
  133. MikeyMike, JuggernautDecember 11, 2014 at 1:56 PM

    Also, there has been some mention of Orton and HHH. I think that a double turn could have been booked during that feud. Orton beating the shit out of the McMahon family is something that generally warrants a face type reaction.

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  134. Lol, AND a 30-year-old Magnum DA.

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  135. MikeyMike, JuggernautDecember 11, 2014 at 1:56 PM

    Triple H looked awful in 2003. I was watching Armageddon 2003 and he's borderline fat.

    ReplyDelete
  136. No problem. I could see someone actually making the GFW/NJPW link more than what it is.

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  137. This time I see the sarcasm, but the point stands. :)

    ReplyDelete
  138. Koloff was a Minnesotan, yeah? Part of that crew with Rude, Hawk, Hennig, etc?

    ReplyDelete
  139. Realistically she wouldn't have been near WCW. As the story goes she was working for the Jarrett's in a PR capacity, and when they started courting buyers she suggested her dad. So it's not like the Carter family was looking to launch or purchase a wrestling promotion, it just kinda happened that way

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  140. Which is crazy b/c at the time that feud looked like it was going to be Punk & Hardy's defining moment, so to speak

    ReplyDelete
  141. With kayfabe shattered and the Internet era, I doubt it. My prediction is WWE slowly continues to die, but it's going to take a while.

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  142. Wrestlemania 22 deserves its own DVD just to explain the crazy circumstances behind the booking (and constant re-booking) of that PPV.
    Batista was scheduled to carry the title into WM and drop the strap to Orton. Eddie was going to betray Team Smackdown! at Survivor Series, setting up a long build towards Eddie/Taker in, morbidly ironically enough, a casket match.

    Then Batista gets hurt, so the plan was to get the belt onto Eddie in the Triple Threat match with Orton. Then Eddie dies I believe a night or two before that match was supposed to take place. Now Batista has to carry the belt injured - working Mark Henry of all people - until he further aggravated his injury and now had to be sidelined. They quickly find a suitable placeholder, who turned out to be Angle. Angle inherits Batista's booking, using the Daivari turn to shoehorn him into finishing Batista's program with Mark henry, his scheduled match with Taker at No Way Out '06, and then finally dropping the title to Orton as was planned all along.
    Mysterio, however, gets a big boost as Eddie's avenger of sorts. he was supposed to be fed to orton at No Way Out, putting major heat on Randy going in to his scheduled title win so as to create a massively hot heel champion, but Orton gets busted on Wellness a fe weeks before Mania, hence the rebooking where Teddy Long reinserts Mysterio into the title match and Orton's win is nixed. Taker gets Henry because frankly, there are no other heels to feed to him at that point.
    And there is 2005-2006 Smackdown's main event booking clusterf*ck in a nutshell.

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  143. Volkoff was pretty awful, but I found him kind of funny so I accepted him.

    ReplyDelete
  144. wait...I thought someone who was on SD creative at the time recently said the plan for WM22 was Shawn Michaels vs Eddie Guerrero (with Eddie going full heel, probably at Survivor Series)

    ReplyDelete
  145. 2008 looked to be the year they started to crawl out of their slump and then proceeded to follow it up with a horrendous 2009 and haven't looked back since.

    ReplyDelete
  146. Yeah I don't really see wrestling having another boom period. Some years may be better than others, but there are just too many factors against it. Only one company that takes zero chances. The rise in popularity of MMA (which itself is stalling a bit) and just so much more competition.

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  147. 2009 Smackdown was awesome. I forget what 2009 Raw was like.

    ReplyDelete
  148. But the issue here is that the attraction is "WWE." But WWE needs stars. It's a catch-22 type situation. As someone below said, if you won't let someone get big, you're going to fail.

    ReplyDelete
  149. YankeesHoganTripleHFanDecember 11, 2014 at 2:21 PM

    Who's deader then Kanyon?

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  150. "Yep Mode" Abeyance Brown ©December 11, 2014 at 2:21 PM

    Yep, Smackdown from 2009 til I say late 2010 was on a roll as well.

    ReplyDelete
  151. Guest-host-palooza!!!! featuring the never-ending feud of Chavo Guerrero Jr & Hornswoggle!!!!

    ReplyDelete
  152. Smackdown was ok but the suck that was Raw was too much to overcome. Smackdown was the jobber show compared to the main product that was Raw and sadly that's what most people were seeing.

    ReplyDelete
  153. You know, hindsight being 20/20, 2008 was a pretty awesome year. Jericho's run alone is enough to make that a standout year. At the time I was pretty cynical though and focusing on the negatives (Mike Adamle as GM, Great Khali getting title matches, the post-Benoit PG wave slowly filtering in), but there was some pretty great work going on that year.
    For me, 2005 was the last GREAT year. The rise of Cena and Batista, the feeling of a new era was very exciting. The Hardy/Edge/Lita scandal, the ECW revival with ONS, HBK's brief heel turn against Hogan, I would argue Angle's last great year as a WWE superstar, etc. Eddie's passing really pumped the breaks on things, but man were those first 10-11 months really inspired fun.

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  154. The only chance of a new boom is if NJPW and/or AAA catch on in America in a big way

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  155. Classic or Clusterfuck:

    Nikolai Volkoff vs Nikita Koloff

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  156. more like they didn't capitlize on the what the mainstream media and general public were excited about (CM Punk)

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  157. i loved the cent symbol on his vest!! a walking allegory

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  158. He stopped breathing.

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  159. It'd only be a classic if Koloff goes over in 10 seconds.

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  160. "Yep Mode" Abeyance Brown ©December 11, 2014 at 2:30 PM

    And I'm pretty sure Hornswoggle was undefeated in that feud.

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  161. Exactly, it's just I figure they didn't because they weren't compelled to by an outside force, a strong #2.

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  162. It is nowadays. Back when there was viable competition certain promotions or territories would get hot which would elevate others by proxy. For 15 years now the only real TV exposure wrestling has recieved has been from promotions trying to be sports entertainment and coming across as low rent WWE knockoffs to the point where now once WWE is seen as stale the whole industry tanks with it.

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  163. Wow undefeated against a wrestling legend? That's pretty impressive http://i.imgur.com/JtNGZ.jpg

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  164. wrestling legend...'s nephew

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  165. Although he practically did during the Katie Vick storyline.

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  166. Cena clearly had more long term upside being younger and less injury prone. Obviously history shows they backed the right horse. Cena was always the future guy I think whereas Batista was the right now guy.

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  167. Why do I feel like some of this is just made up?
    Eddie was never supposed to face The Undertaker. They had one PPV match at Armageddon 2004, as part of the Fatal 4 Way. Outside of that, they were never in the cards.
    The Michaels/Guerrero match *is* documented, and it was supposed to be the quintessential wrestling match (that eventually happened with Taker vs. Michaels at WrestleMania 25).
    Then again, I've also heard that Eddie was gonna win the World Heavyweight Championship (quote from Stephanie McMahon the night Eddie died), so who knows where Eddie would've been by WrestleMania 22?

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  168. Well, Jesse would call it a face turn.

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  169. if the storyline was hot enough Eddie vs Michaels could have been better than Michael vs Taker. was this brought up in the matches that almost happened convo a few days ago?

    ReplyDelete
  170. Yeah that's when JBL finally felt like a legit champion after months of being over his head.

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  171. I really loved the Eddie-Batista dynamic in 05. With Batista not falling for Eddie's shit and being aware of that fact.

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  172. For the past four years (since Batista left), WWE has seemed to stop building up guys to the point where they get big enough to leave. I surmised from Punk's podcast that WWE wasn't letting him pursue outside stuff (even like sponsorships and walking to the UFC with Sonnen), promote his Make-A-Wish stuff, or even put him in a WWE Studios movie because they didn't want him to get too big to leave. Bryan seems content with wrestling so far, and all the Divas are pretty
    much tied down by the Total Divas show to go pull a Stacy Keibler on
    them.

    Even five years ago WWE would latch onto any modicum of mainstream publicity it could, but it almost seems like WWE doesn't want to play up any of their wrestler's outside stuff (or even let them do it in the first place) in the fear they're going to bail.

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  173. Not sure, brother. I don't believe it was, but I know Greenfield and Bauer have talked about it at length on MLW Radio.

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  174. No no, I'm talking SD pre-WMXX which was Eddie Guerrero's journey to the title and first month or so on-top. The main stories were Eddie vs Chavo which transitioned to Eddie vs Angle.


    After WM Heyman was kicked off TV (he had been killing it as GM), a bunch of the SD roster got moved to Raw and replaced by stale acts (RVD, Booker, Dudleys), some of the most horrendous workers of all time got added to the roster (Heidenreich, Luther Reigns, Kenzo), and JBL got elevated too fast....blech!

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  175. My bad got 20 and 21 confused.

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  176. Well hey look. I have nothing to gain by coming here and talking a bunch of made up shit. I'm simply reporting the rumored booking plans from that time period, as I remember them, and as they were presented online. Take everything with a grain of salt, as you should with every internet rumor, so if a WWE creative member said HBK/Eddie was always the plan for Mania, let's go with that. I do recall the Eddie/Taker casket match being tossed around though, with Taker acting as SD!'s "conscience" giving the turncoat Eddie his comeuppance.

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  177. ...AND manipulating Eddie into thinking he's falling for it!

    ReplyDelete
  178. Dibiase on commentary with Gorilla Monsoon is underrated


    including his work at Rumble 94... he should be partly credited with getting Diesel finally over, and Owen's heel turn

    ReplyDelete
  179. And now I remember to go to botchamania.com, and see #262 there for my viewing pleasure. THANKS!

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  180. Good stuff! Can't wait for the second part.

    ReplyDelete
  181. ....and curling.

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  182. That was so great. An underrated shit part of Eddie's death was we never got proper payoff for that feud. Completely derailed Batista into WM 23 and the Taker feud too.

    ReplyDelete
  183. The plan was Eddie was faking going full face correct? Because his last match was basically your typical Eddie face match.

    ReplyDelete
  184. Exactly, Eddie was pretending it was a mutual respect deal and Dave knew he was full of shit.

    ReplyDelete
  185. WWE as a brand is ingrained enough in pop culture that it will last for quite awhile.

    However, pro wrestling as a whole has been redefined as being nothing more than a variety show with SOME wrestling sprinkled in between bad acting, dance contests, celebrity guest hosts , etc.

    Even worse is the fact that this current generation has grown up on a WWE product that has had virtually no real competition in the form of a viable wrestling product with mainstream presence and appeal (this again goes back to WWE being a brand and not merely a wrestling company---a concept lost on TNA and other would-be challengers for pro wrestling dominance).

    So while many of us fondly look back on classic matches and angles from the NWA, ECW or the WWF, the current generation will only recall pro wrestling as being defined by the McMahon's variety show antics.

    So while the term "pro wrestling" will likely exist for years to come, the bonafide wrestling aspect of it may very well join Roller Derby in the dustbin of pop culture relics.

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  186. what is interesting is Eddie started getting real over as a face to the point that they pretty much turned him and had him & Batista saving each other from heel attacks...I was definitely psyched for whatever the payoff was, because it could have gone in a few different directions

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  187. Oh my god, Eddie sincerely turning face because they were boys and then Dave fucking him over and turning heel would have been amazing. AND perfectly in character.

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  188. Ah, fuck the WWE and its menstruation.

    Have bought tickets to Triple X Wrestling's Saturday 28th event, right here in beautiful post-bombing Coventry. I'll see YOU there!

    https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t31.0-8/10865879_10152420696742511_7772713105215320820_o.jpg

    ReplyDelete
  189. I mostly enjoyed the product from 2008-WrestleMania 26.

    RAW & SD were both good in 2008. SmackDown was awesome in 2009 while RAW struggled with Guest Host BS and the early months of 2010 were memorable too with a great build to WrestleMania.

    I'd throw in 2011 too as I really enjoyed that year for RAW and SD.

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  190. Even if you don't care, you should load up the image and zoom in. The nicknames for the appearing wrestlers make me laugh.

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  191. Brother, the point of that first line was just to make a Jesse Baker joke, nothing more...nothing less. Zero hard feelings.
    That said, I have seriously never heard this rumor and I would be astonished if Eddie were to have worked with the Dead Man. The perfect time for that would've been at (or around) Summerslam 2005, where Eddie was in full asshole heel mode.

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  192. It's amazing...Eddie is very underrated as a guy who can get a story over--people just dwell on his flawless in-ring ability! All of Eddie's programs had heat (Latino Heat~!)

    ReplyDelete

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