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The Way WWE is Using Ziggler and Reigns

> If Reigns is the guy, why are they booking Ziggler like he's Shawn Michaels in 95?

They're telling stories!  We're having fun Maggle!

Comments

  1. Are we suggesting that just because Reigns is "the guy", they can't give Ziggler a healthy upper-card push.

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  2. I have to agree, Ziggler is getting the Shawn Michaels in 1995/Austin in 1997/Eddie in 2003 push, and Reigns can't even beat the Big Show convincingly?


    Even Cena was beating Big Show convincingly in 2003 and WWE was still operating under the Randy Orton boner.

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  3. Why? Because fuck you, that's why.
    ®2014 WWE Entertainment

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  4. not to hurt feelings but comparing 2014 ziggler to 1995 hbk is really the dumbest thing ive heard this year

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  5. If this all leads to a Reigns vs Ziggler feud in the same vein as Diesel vs Shawn, then I'm all for it.

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  6. I don't recall HBK trading the IC title with a guy the crowd doesn't give a shit about.

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  7. I think Ziggler is still missing that certain something to put him over the top, but a Lesnar/Ziggler match would be awesome.

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  8. HBK vacated IC titles to nobody gave a shit about.

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  9. HBK obviously winning the Rumble, 95% of his TV matches, a lengthy IC title run when it meant something and a clear progression to the World Title is comparable to Ziggler? No. Not impressed.

    Ziggler is the guy I'm most confused with currently, though. It seems
    like they're trying to make a big deal out of him since Series, but the
    results don't suggest that, nor does being the Jobber champ again. My
    cynical guess is they're keeping Ziggler as a possible replacement
    option incase Reigns flops, Bryan doesn't return, etc... and the face
    talent remains in the dire state it's been since summer.

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  10. If there was a second world title, Ziggler would be getting that title. Since there isn't, at least they are building up the IC belt.

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  11. I laughed hard at that answer. Touché Scott.

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  12. Given how this company has operated over the last couple of years....no. It's gotten to the point where we're legitimately surprised when WWE truly pushes more than one non-Cena person at a time.

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  13. The Ziggler push is intriguing to me because what's the endgame? It seems like it's set in stone that Reigns is getting the title at WM, whether from Lesnar or Cena, so does that leave whoever Reigns doesn't face as the one who'll face Ziggler? Or is Ziggler's push just the result of a diminished roster and he's just healthy at the right time?

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  14. He was set to job to Shane Douglas, so...

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  15. I'm not really having that much fun.

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  16. Stranger in the AlpsDecember 23, 2014 at 7:11 PM

    We're all telling stories and having fun until Kane shows up.


    Then we're telling stories and having NO fun.

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  17. I don't recall HBK ever losing titles in the traditional sense.

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  18. The latest hum from the dirtsheet swamp is that Vince isn't fully sold on Reigns anymore and they're hedging their bets on the next "guy" by putting Ambrose and Ziggler in the running.

    Basically, if Lesnar leaves the Rumble as champ, Reigns is winning the Rumble. If Cena or Rollins do, Ziggler or Ambrose are the favorites to win the Rumble.

    I, personally, do not believe this for a second, but that's what's being said in hushed tones.

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  19. Reigns = Big Daddy Tool

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  20. Ever since the Vince/Austin podcast and the brass ring comments, it seems like that has become a realistic issue/storyline in the WWE. The superstar who shows the most heart since that podcast will be the new champ at Wrestlemania. It's as if the booking/storylines have been about who will replace Cena as the future face of the company. I hope it's Ziggler.

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  21. Way to hurt feelings.

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  22. i thought i was being nice

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  23. Interesting, because if Vince is being honest with himself, he'd have to put Reigns in the same category that he put Caesaro in, someone who just isn't quite clicking yet. Reigns has the look, no doubt, but his promos are 'meh' and he has yet to demonstrate that he can have a good 15 minute-plus match on his own. Plus, and this is purely my point of view, his pops are somewhat lukewarm, whereas Ziggler consistently gets big pops. Knowing how much Vince changes everything at the last minute these days, I wouldn't be surprised if the plans for Reigns are changing.

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  24. Is Daniel Bryan officially dead to wrestling?

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  25. That's what I'm wondering. When Austin got his neck injury at Summerslam he was still all over TV after that and got far more over than he was before. Why isn't Bryan still on in a similar way?

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  26. I think WWE should be booking forward without Daniel Bryan in mind because he's a wildcard right now as there's a chance he might not wrestle again and even if he does, it's not clear if he can still go like he use to.

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  27. Austin didn't get surgery after he got dropped on his head.

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  28. Cause he's small, funny looking, and keeps quiet.

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  29. He should have, but i'm glad he didn't

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  30. Yeah, but he couldn't wrestle. In fact, that's what set up the first stunner he gave to Vince.

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  31. They knew Austin would come back for Survivor Series, they just wanted him to rest. The timetable on Bryan is uncertain, or they're holding out for a surprise at the Rumble.

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  32. I guess that's true, it just seems odd that a guy who went over so big at WM 30 has been barely mentioned at all since he left. Hell, Reigns has had more promos about his surgery in the month after it than Bryan has had the entire year.

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  33. He lost his smile, isn't that enough?!

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  34. Well let's see, the house show report we got here said he was booked with Kane. He worked with Big Show on Raw. Not exactly getting to work with guys who are going to get Reigns to the next level as a worker.

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  35. this is going to sound crazy, and I really don't believe it, but maybe they are pushing Ziggle because they are going to take the IC title seriously like they did before the attitude era.

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  36. I knew they could. I just didn't think WWE thought they could.

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  37. True. I have to wonder if they're doing that on purpose to see if Reigns has the ability to put on good matches with stiffs.

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  38. So... You're saying Ziggler should have lost his smile and handed the title over?

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  39. He doesn't.

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  40. but didn't he win it right back?

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  41. It seems that way. The match last night almost looked like he was being set up to look bad.

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  42. Is booking a term that should be left in the rear view mirror? These days it's a bunch of sitcom writers making the decisions, rather than traditional bookers going "here's your motivation, run with it for 3 months."

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  43. I'm baffled by the amount of marks around here. We're better than this guys.

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  44. The Heartbreak Kid lays down for absolutely no one! Not even his own smile!

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  45. What is Zigglers motivation from a character stand point? Not as a performer out there to steal the show, but Dolph Ziggler the character. What are his hopes and dreams? What does he want? Why does he want it?

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  46. I agree with you, but then again, there's only so many so times you can have Bryan say "I'll be back soon" before it gets nauseating.


    Also, Austin appeared once or twice when he went down for the surgery. He didn't give constant updates during that time.

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  47. I am so sick of any variant of "that's not who we are."

    Say something like "We SHOULD be better than this, guys" We ARE as we do.

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  48. If I was Dolph, I'd want to bang every diva in the locker room. With CM Punk out of the company there's less competition.

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  49. Dolph FUCKING Ziggler is not 1995 Shawn Michaels. Done. End of story. He isn't fighting Lesnar. He is just a guy that they don't really care about. Just like he has been for years. There is no magical Ziggler push coming. He was a prop lasting to the end in the authority deal. If anything he is Cena's friend with silly hair. Nothing more than that.

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  50. We should be better than thinking Dolph Ziggler is 1995 Shawn Michaels. We really really really should be better than that.

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  51. love the passion, dan

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  52. Or career ending back injuries.

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  53. 1995 Shawn Michaels was 1976 Harley Race!

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  54. YOU'RE INSANE!!!!!

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  55. Ah. I dig.

    I like it better when people compare him to 1990 Mr. Perfect. Mid-card guy, that puts on fun matches.

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  56. Is this Mobammed? Just go back to Tubisia! Anything is better than laying next to that beast of a woman. You DO NOT have to raise her daughters. The fucking electricity is cut. Just get out. It's a dead end.

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  57. Ziggler is more like 1-2-3 Kid... he wins, but he never wins a match that matters. He's nowhere near Shawn Michaels, unless we're talking "Jobbed out Rockers Version"

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  58. no, he's not even that

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  59. Then book Cena to win for his own stupid team

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  60. bret v kid is better than zigglers whole career

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  61. That is a very fair and accurate way to look at Dolph Ziggler. Nothing wrong with that. And I'm not out to get the guy. I enjoy his work. He just isn't 95 HBK and there is zero chance in hell they waste a Lesnar match on him. It's insanity to think otherwise.

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  62. The 1-2-3 Kid told Bret, with a tear in his eye, that was the best anyone ever made him look.

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  63. Would have made Cena look weak being the background guy to the whole Sting/HHH saga and Vince McMahon can't have that.

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  64. Cena would never need "The Vigilante" Sting's help to win. Then they would have booed for saving Cena. Dolph we the prop to make sure the Stong debut went smoothly. That's the only reason he was out there.

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  65. probably wasn't a smart move for Austin's health in retrospect, ya know

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  66. still zig has never been in a match like that

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  67. Or 27 marines.

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  68. [Cue Dancing R Truth]

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  69. Oh, Nicky!
    He's so fine!
    He's so fine he blows my mind!
    Hey Nicky!
    Hey Nicky!

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  70. "If you're not here to be the champion, you're in the wrong place." I'm totally screwing up that Austin quote, but I feel like that was the beginning of a lot of problems. The truth is, there's nothing wrong with being the mid card act that gets a great pop, or the tag team that has a comedy act, or the guy who revs up the crowd at the start of the show. I honestly don't get why everyone has to be seen as potential world champions. Of anything, it dilutes things, I think. Plus, isn't that why we had an IC title to begin with? For the Rudes and Perfects of the world?

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  71. Or Sunny! Oh wait...

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  72. "If you're not in the wrong place, you're the wrong champion." - screwing up Austin's quote even more.

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  73. That's logical, and for the record that's my email.

    Just seems like they're doing a better job booking Ziggler (clean win over Harper) then Reigns (can't even beat Big Show? C'mon Cena can pin him 10 times in 4 minutes). Though if Ziggler's end game is beating Rusev to unify the IC & US titles I'd be happy

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  74. Heh heh. I deserve that for not looking it up.

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  75. Or enough blow to kill John Leguizamo.

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  76. Because Austin could cut promos and had ridiculous charisma. I love Bryan, but he has neither.

    Also, we have no idea of his medical condition. Could be that Austin's allowed him to travel whereas travel could be detrimental to Bryan's.

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  77. To be clear, I can see Vince going lukewarm on anyone, but I don't see a WM31 that doesn't have Cena or Lesnar (or both) in the main event.

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  78. BTW, I would like to point out, Dan, that it's not the worst thing in the world to play a little "What if...?" I mean, at then people are having fun. I kinda wish I could believe that someone I like is going to win at Rumble, man.

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  79. It would be interesting to line up the tenth biggest star of 1984, 1994, 2004, and 2014 and see how they stack up against each other.

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  80. Ziggler is not beating Rusev. not even by count out. They wouldn't let him beat Big Show by count out either. He's less than a month removed from jobbing the IC title to Haroer to no fan reaction. He's just a mid card guy. Cena's buddy at best. Always a bridesmaid never a bride. His ceiling is sidekick to someone more popular.

    What is his gimmick? He likes to show off? Who cares. What does that even mean? That's not something people get behind for a big push. He's a small guy who doesn't understand that he shouldn't bump like crazy for everyone. He's fun to watch, but he's going nowhere.

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  81. Ziegler already beat Rusev by count out.

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  82. Theberzerker! HUSS!December 23, 2014 at 8:11 PM

    Vince gets 20 different ideas from Creative. He chooses one, then changes his mind about it 10x before the show. Every week. Every month. All year long. That's why.

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  83. The what if gane is one thing. Saying he's being pushed like 95 HBK is another. And sorry to shit in your stocking, but Ziggler is not winning the Rumble. They are not doing a title match at Wrestle FUCKING Mania with Dolph Ziggler. Please. Dolph Ziggler! I can't believe this is even discussion.

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  84. What was 1995 Shawn Michaels' gimmick?

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  85. Male stripper that liked to dance for free.

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  86. Around this same time last year everyone was saying that there was NO WAY Daniel Bryan was going to win in the main event of Wrestle FUCKING Mania.

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  87. My mistake. I guess he is getting the HBK push and winning the Rumble!

    I don't recall seeing it so I googled Dolph beats RUSEV. I got Dolph being squashed on Oct. 10th and Dolph getting squashed on Nov. 21st.

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  88. Ziggler winning the Rumble lol.

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  89. Think he meant at Survivor Series, which doesn't count.

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  90. He jobbed the IC title to Harper to help build up the Survivor Series main event. Demonstrating how the odds are in favor of The Authority. Ziggler won the title back at TLC and got the strongest reaction of the night.

    What's anyone's gimmick? What's a Seith Rollins? What's a John Cena? What's a Randy Orton? What's anything. Ziggler's been getting a strong reaction and he's got the best babyface comeback in the company presently...I don't know, gotta get my nut up for something otherwise why bother? It's shit entertainment targeting 1st graders, rednecks, and the mentally disabled.

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  91. Right before the Rumble people were clamoring for Bryan. I don't hear crowds clamoring for Ziggler. Bryan has been on a completely different level than Ziggler his entire career. Ziggler is a joke of a character and no one is putting him in the main event of Wrestlemania.

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  92. SEXY BOY!!!

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  93. Remember, this time last year everyone kept saying that Bryan was only a placeholder feud (even Scott) for Orton before Batista or Cena came in to save the day.


    There was NO WAY Bryan was going on to Wrestlemania to win the title. Nope, not at all. And there was NO WAY he was going to beat all three members of Evolution in one night to win the title on top of that.


    Nope, not happening.

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  94. A sexy boy that's not your boy toy.

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  95. A joke of a character who singlehandedly almost beat the entire Authority team at Survivor Series.

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  96. It's a long shot, but who knows anymore. Ziggler might become the guy the fans rally to if they don't want Reigns.

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  97. SAT's, Special K, the list is pitiful.

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  98. Who has he trained? I would not be surprised he's a terrible trainer, I mean he was a pretty lousy wrestler.

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  99. Why are they watching It's A Wonderful Life in Spanish? They have English language channels in Miami.

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  100. So that "The Vigilante" Sting could come save him. That entire match was built around "The Vigilante" Sting's debut. No one even cares Dolph survived.

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  101. He moved out of the way when Rusev dived onto a table, got back into the ring before Rusev, and Rusev got counted out.


    Dolph Ziggler beat Rusev by count out.

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  102. 1996. House Arrest is one of the best movies of all time. JLH in Hawaii at the end is amazing

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  103. True, considering Ambrose lost all his heat.

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  104. 1 has been the best by miles. It hooked me instantly and I was through it in less than a day.

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  105. Damn, the Benoit chapter in Jericho's second book is fucking depressing

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  106. Cosby. I never heard of Joe Paterno.

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  107. Hardly in hushed tones, Meltzer was surprisingly open about how down the powers that be seem on Reigns.

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  108. Have you gotten to Home Alone 5: Holiday Heist yet?

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  109. Except the fans that are giving Dolph huge reactions, and the announcers who keep mentioning that Dolph is the guy who beat the Authority.


    Might help if you watch the show.

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  110. Any time Jericho mentions Benoit it's depressing. I just can't imagine one of my best friends turning into that. But if it happened I know it would rip me to shreds.

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  111. The movies ended after 2. 3, 4, 5 never happened

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  112. It's the NYOD, too busy choking out unarmed people committing misdemeanors

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  113. I just caught a clip of it on this dumb countdown show. It's a great match, you should check it out.

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  114. I get it, but Ziggler isn't anywhere near as over as Bryan was though.

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  115. I watched it several times before he died, I don't watch anything Eddie if I can avoid it

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  116. I don't get it.


    Do Americans wait to start cancer treatment?

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  117. NYC being a scary place to walk home alone at night? Thank God Guiliani came and cleaned up the city. Today he'd just go to Times Square and enjoy Bubba Gump Shrimp

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  118. I watched it with my dad and I devoured that shit. People go gaga for Season 4 but Season 1 all day.

    Just amazing twists and turns and DOAKES!

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  119. And how after every match he'd say "It's unfortunate that is' been erased from history and technically doesn't exist anymore"

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  120. that Motörhead song started playing in my head when she came out in that hula outfit

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  121. You would have to pay an incredible, life destroying amount of money for it here.

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  122. Hence, the premise of the show

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  123. Survivor Series matches don't count. There's been undefeated guys that actually got pinned during the elimination matches, but announcers chose to ignore it and still billed them as being undefeated.

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  124. My best friend murdered his wife and son who I knew very well and I watched as he became a vilified monster while I knew the person I knew and loved would be lost forever.

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  125. If Reigns is actually not gonna be the guy to win the rumble and Brock wins then its going to be Orton. Not Dolph. Not Bryan. Randy Orton

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  126. And Benoit was someone Jericho idolized, he patterned some of his style.

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  127. Undertaker was only 26 when he beat Hogan in 91. Earthquake was 27 when he faced Hogan in 1990. Both those guys looked a lot older.

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  128. Cena vs Orton,one more timeDecember 23, 2014 at 8:31 PM

    I honestly believe the IC title has no chance of rehabilitation now.

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  129. The first time I read that I thought it was an unnecessary jab at WWE erasing Benoit but then I just realized that he was just truly sad that these memories were erased and replaced with an awful final memory.

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  130. Still better than Reigns.

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  131. MikeyMike, JuggernautDecember 23, 2014 at 8:31 PM

    Also, his description of Benoit after Eddies death. A completely lost man.

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  132. The pigeon lady is fucking creepy. Like, what the fuck. She probably has all kinds of diseases. The old man should've shown up in NYC and kicked some ass.

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  133. High School chemistry teacher gets cancer... in order to pay for his treatment and l provide for his family he starts cooking and selling crystal meth. If the show happens in Igloo country it ends mid way through episode 1.

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  134. Succinct rueage!

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  135. But he's over enough.


    Reigns was getting Daniel Bryan chants during his match.

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  136. bigger copier of the original: home alone 2 or hangover 2?

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  137. My mom grew up in 60-80s NYC and said the place was an absolute shithole. Must've been like Newark and Chicago in one black hole of awfulness, and with cocaine to boot.

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  138. John Morrison is the #4 high flyer.

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  139. Even teachers wouldn't have coverage or something?

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  140. god no! Orton is much, much worse...the same bland guy wrestling the same bland match cutting the same bland promo, taking 5 years between each move......yeah, I'll take whatever Reigns is

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  141. But he still beat him by count out, which Danimal said would never happen.

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  142. A sensational show it was!

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  143. Not cocaine. Crack.

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  144. No. No one has default, unpaid coverage except the very poor and very elderly and even those options suck and wouldn't be enough to cover this kind of treatment.

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  145. My parents used to have take the car radio with them

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  146. Well, cocaine in the rich places and crack in the ghetto.

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  147. MikeyMike, JuggernautDecember 23, 2014 at 8:35 PM

    I liked JoMo.

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  148. That really blows. I hope that you all never get cancer.


    ..most of you all.

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  149. The pigeon lady's WAHHHH I HAVE NO FRIENDS speech. No shit sherlock....you walk around with fucking pigeons.

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  150. The 80's crack scourge is the scariest craziest stuff I've ever read about. NYC seemed horrific in those days.

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  151. Arresting story, bro.

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  152. If you could spend the holidays with one fellow commentator here, who would it be?

    My pick is Jobber123 because that black man knows soul food, lemme tell ya...

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  153. It is at least a fresh match I'm not saying I agree with it I just see Vince getting bored with reigns quick leading to Orton

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  154. They have made mention of "The Vigilante" Sting being the only reason he won. He was just Cena's buddy the next night in a tag match. You should watch the show of you ever believe Dolph is getting a big push.

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  155. JoMo got really great especially in 2009 through his departure.

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  156. 70s NYC was really bad according to a few friends of mine. early 90s times square was not a tourist repeller not attraction

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  157. The neighborhoods were just annihilated by that shit. I mean at least it gave us a great generation of rapper but holy hell was it awful.

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  158. Even basic stuff costs a fortune here. If you break a finger or something you are likley looking at a couple grand to fix it.

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  159. I would love to have DBSM's job.

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  160. Rusev has been beaten before by DQ and Countout and by Jack Swagger of all people, so it's not outside the realm of possibility for Rusev to lose to Dolph by countout or whatever, but Dolph is not going to be the guy who first pins him.

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  161. That's a good question. I'd say Art Vandelay. That guy is a hell of a commenter....

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  162. I dont think his name is a problem anymore. Im to used to it. I remember first hearing the name "triple h" and thinking that was the dumbest fucking name in the world.Taz is another one. But months turned into years and it stuck. Of course there are exceptions (about a thousand of them) like GI Bro and Bastion Booger, but Ziggler im to used to now.

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  163. Yeah he sucks. Never saw the big deal about him

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  164. Much like smoking a cigarette on a plane with a big titted stew, late 70's Times Square is a place I wish I could've experience at least once

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  165. How do people afford it though? You guys pay less in taxes, but even that can't make up for it.


    Like how does Joe Average, not broke, but not particularly well off either afford to get his broken arm set? You can't walk off a broken arm for the most part.

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  166. None of use are going to put over someone else on that level.

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  167. Haha that kid is in the hospital on Christmas Eve....


    Yes, I'm going to hell

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  168. He just beat Harper to probably the largest reaction of the entire show.

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  169. Oh come on...it's xmas time!

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  170. Oh yea, the shit's about to go down/Christmas music when Kevin gets ready for his plan is amazing. It's like the Rocky training montage

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  171. There are a few exceptions to the rule. But, the wrestler makes the name. The name does not make the wrestler.

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  172. It is the wrestling business and weird shit happens all the time, but I wouldn't hold your breath on a mega Ziggler push coming soon.

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  173. I'll be the bigger man. I'll put Marv over. I'd love to just sit and riff on Sunny and Parks all day.

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  174. On what Bundy did between 1989 and 1994: “I did a computer commercial in late 87. It ran for two years. For three years, I worked for the computer company. The other years I bought a bar – that didn’t work out. I spent a lot of money. I gambled a lot. I did a computer commercial. It was a Dutch company called BenDex. It was a Dutch company that did $6 billion in sales. I do the commercial. All of a sudden, I got full page ads in USA Today, Time, Newsweek, Sports Illustrated. I hoped Vince wouldn’t find out about it. Needless to say, Vince found out about it big time. Ever since that day, and I’ve been told this and never revealed this, ‘that was the kiss of death to your career’. I say ‘To hell with Vince McMahon’…Vince is such a control freak: the idea of one of his pieces of property being used by somebody else – it was just death to him. He couldn’t stand it.”

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  175. If I had to pick Art or Jobber share my interests more than anyone else. Caliber for the case study, and Cult to annoy on purpose.

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  176. Why didn't Kevin just call the cops and say hey, at midnight, these guys are robbing the toy store

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  177. I ws never impressed with that toy store. The toys were like from 1940.

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  178. MikeyMike, JuggernautDecember 23, 2014 at 8:41 PM

    I speak to parallax frequently off this site quite frequently so I'll go with him based on the fact I like him better than anyone else on this site and I could have normal conversations with him without it being awkward.

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  179. I'm retroactively bummed that WWE didn't do Miz/Morrison for the WWE Title at the Rumble 2011. Actually put Miz over and get a great match. Those two had chemistry.

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  180. Anytime I imagine meeting some I feel like it would instantly turn into an uncomfortable thing where we ONLY talk about the shit we've already talked about lol

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