Skip to main content

Miz As WWE Champ

Scott,

I was watching a RAW where Miz and Cena were fueding, and like most people I think I completely blocked out that he main evented WrestleMania as walked out as champ.

What the heck was going on during that time-frame where the Miz was their pick to battle Cena? And walk out as champ?? Horrifying.

​They thought Miz was gonna be their guy, they took a shot with him, it failed spectacularly.  The lesson here:  Never try.  ​

Comments

  1. Except people didn't underestimate Honky Tonk, wrestlers WANTED to beat him. Cena's 'eh' attitude, like it's easy to win, is what kills his feuds. When he respects guys and views them near his level, he's infinitely better.

    ReplyDelete
  2. It didn't help that Miz's first feud after winning the title was against... Jerry Lawler. Or that his feud with Cena for the WWE title was an afterthought to Cena-Rock.

    ReplyDelete
  3. One of the reasons I hated having two World titles, they seemed more inclined throw everything against a wall and see what stuck.

    ReplyDelete
  4. The Ghost of Matt_INDEED!!!January 29, 2015 at 6:15 AM

    Except for Randy Orton. Nothing can help when they feud.

    ReplyDelete
  5. It's like with Hennig vs Michaels: logically Cena vs Orton should work, and yet they just cannot click.

    ReplyDelete
  6. The Ghost of Matt_INDEED!!!January 29, 2015 at 6:16 AM

    I agree, and I think those whom continually push for a second title forget what a secondary pile of crap it was. It was the same thing as what they do with the I-C title now. "Who's champion this week?" How does that help anyone? Keep one world title because they'd just do the same thing again.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Of course post 2002 Michaels vs 1989 Perfect would've been amazing. Once Shawn slowed down, he got infinitely better at storytelling and not 'OMG BUMPS BUMPS BUMPS.'

    ReplyDelete
  8. The secondary title added importance to Christian, introduced the Hall of Pain and gave Henry an opportunity after struggling for a decade, let Bryan be in some type of title match for 2/3 of 2012, let Batista and Cena mature simultaneously, let Edge and Taker do their thing...


    Wait, what was wrong with this again?

    ReplyDelete
  9. Yeah the Lawler thing killed him right off the bat. They had Morrison right there and could have easily done a title feud.

    ReplyDelete
  10. The Ghost of Matt_INDEED!!!January 29, 2015 at 6:26 AM

    That would mean someone would've gotten over by being in a student/teacher wrestling feud. That doesn't sound like an authority figure storyline, bro. Don't be a mark.


    They tell stories. We don't need guys to get over. We just need the stories, man.

    ReplyDelete
  11. The problem with The Miz was that he was big-time over before he won the gold, he got a huge pop when he won the gold, and then WWE decided 'hey, let's book him as the underdog heel champ.' That role barely worked for Ric Flair, who is one of the greatest wrestlers of all time. If they'd booked Miz as a guy babyfaces didn't underestimate, but wanted to kill, that'd work. Instead he's an afterthought, until he cuts one awesome promo and kicks Rock/Cena's asses, then goes back to being an afterthought.

    Miz in full 'you have to beat me Cena, I don't have to beat you' mode would've worked. Just hinting that he'd take a countout or DQ at Mania, would've been a cool story.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Miz just couldn't back up his image in the ring. I loved his swagger and interviews though. Too bad Alex Riley never got the proper follow up to his break away push, he'd better not ever look at John Cena wrong again.

    ReplyDelete
  13. WWE vastly miscalculated the Miz's mainstream appeal. He was a D-list celebrity at best, and WWE thought his title win would get headlines. Sure, it was ESPN and some other sites, but largely nobody cares about someone who was on The Real World ten years ago.

    He also had the shittiest competition because WWE refused to book him strongly over anyone. When you're facing Jerry Lawler in a PPV main event, it shows that WWE is too scared to actually put him over a legit talent.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Mitch, The GodfatherJanuary 29, 2015 at 6:27 AM

    Having his main feud be with Jerry Lawler didn't help either. If they kept him strong after losing the title, he probably would have been champ again. Swagger falls in that same boat and he had a better title reign than the MIz.

    ReplyDelete
  15. The Ghost of Matt_INDEED!!!January 29, 2015 at 6:27 AM

    The Miz was the Honky Tonk Man of WWE champions. No one bought him as champion, they just thought he kept getting lucky or sneaking out with the title. Hell, that's exactly what happened at WM that year.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Ha! My favorite Homer quote.

    ReplyDelete
  17. They thought he'd attract all the MTV Real World fans

    ReplyDelete
  18. The Ghost of Matt_INDEED!!!January 29, 2015 at 6:27 AM

    "The most must-see WWE champion of all-time!"


    Crowd: *sits on hands*


    VKM: Perfect!

    ReplyDelete
  19. The Ghost of Matt_INDEED!!!January 29, 2015 at 6:27 AM

    All of that could be done with the I-C strap or no strap. Doesn't have to be a world title.

    ReplyDelete
  20. The Ghost of Matt_INDEED!!!January 29, 2015 at 6:27 AM

    Yep. Exactly.

    ReplyDelete
  21. One thing people forget about miz is that he almost became champ a second time. During the summer of punk, he lost to Rey in the tournament final for the vacant title.

    ReplyDelete
  22. The Ghost of Matt_INDEED!!!January 29, 2015 at 6:30 AM

    We're trying to forget, at least.


    We're trying.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Which may have been a better idea because the WWE stupidly decided to blow Cena-Rey Mysterio on free TV. If you are going to put the belt on Rey, at least run that at SummerSlam in LOS ANGELES. Then again, they probably didn't want the Latino crowd to turn on Cena.

    ReplyDelete
  24. When they did the brand split properly, two titles absolutely worked. It's just they rarely did. But I guarantee you if they only had one title in 2004, no way was Eddie getting close to that.

    ReplyDelete
  25. I hate The Miz. I hate his look, I hate his promos, I hate his ring work, I hate his music, I hate his face. He's a toilet break. I can't see how anyone, anywhere could think that this dork could be the face of a wrestling company

    ReplyDelete
  26. Theberzerker Von HUSSingtonJanuary 29, 2015 at 6:37 AM

    I feel bad for Miz...I've never hated him the way most people do, at least not since this time he was on top. At the time he was improving at an amazing rate, and was legitimately a hot property. I didn't think he would carry the title to Mania, but I liked when he got it. As usual, he was ruined by awful booking, but he does deserve some of the blame, much like Ryder, for just taking it the drop in faith and attention and stopping the improvements he had been making. There's a difference between taking what you're given and making it work (Cody, Bryan) and just bending over and taking it (Miz, Ryder).

    ReplyDelete
  27. I hate that guy I'm supposed to hate!

    ReplyDelete
  28. If they were worried about crowds turning on Cena, they'd probably have operated much differently over the last decade. They know it's going to happen, and they don't care. Because they obviously "turned" on him anyway against Punk at that show.

    ReplyDelete
  29. You can do all the things listed above without 2 world titles. They did so I the olden days when everyone had a feud and everyone was over.

    ReplyDelete
  30. I was pretty down on the product as a whole in 2011.

    ReplyDelete
  31. I disagree. It gave weight to what those guys were doing. Christian finally winning the world title or winning the IC title for the 6th time--which one is more important? Henry giving his ass kickings to random guys a name OR Henry dominating Orton, who had a stranglehold on the world title--which one makes a bigger impact?


    We are one year into the unified title... guess what.... they haven't done shit to establish the importance of the IC title. The World title as something between IC and WWE titles made for some good angles and help foster the emergence of other stars.

    ReplyDelete
  32. So what? I don't recall Jake Roberts, Mr Perfect, Ted Dibiase, Roddy Piper etc. having WWF title runs and they are some of the most highly respected and fondly remembered WWF stars of the era.

    ReplyDelete
  33. Theberzerker Von HUSSingtonJanuary 29, 2015 at 6:48 AM

    Aside from their respective Mania seasons, 2009-2011 was fucking brutal...though 2014-2015 is looking to rival it pretty well.

    ReplyDelete
  34. That is entirely not what I meant and you know it

    ReplyDelete
  35. Don't think he had a single clean win during this period - in fact, I think that there was a visual pin/win over him in every PPV defence.

    ReplyDelete
  36. Oh haha, you're so funny! I hate him as a performer, heel or face. I hate his ring work, think his promo ability is overrated and think he has a crap look. I see no upside. I think you know what I meant so let's not be silly eh?

    ReplyDelete
  37. I don't think The Miz failed, they just didn't do anything to follow up on him after he dropped the belt. Not that this alone would have made a big difference, but I always thought Miz should have kept the title until at least Over The Limit. The match at Extreme Rules was a triple-threat steel cage match anyway; never got why Miz couldn't have just pinned John Morrison if they didn't want Cena taking another pinfall, especially since R-Truth interfered and attacked Morrison during the late stages of the match anyway.

    ReplyDelete
  38. When you have two world titles, you really have no world titles. It devalues the belt, especially when they got rid of the brand split

    ReplyDelete
  39. Heel heat is heel heat. It doesn't matter why you don't like him.

    ReplyDelete
  40. The Ghost of Matt_INDEED!!!January 29, 2015 at 6:54 AM

    The I-C is still around. The world title is gone. You have barely 30 guys on the roster. You don't need a second world title. If you need a secondary title, go with WWE history and make the title that was secondary for 20 years back to being important. It can be done. Just make people actually want it and win matches, build a feud around it, and it will be important again.


    I don't think the world title should be ignored for what it was when it was around, but it's no longer needed.

    ReplyDelete
  41. What if your hatred turns you off of the product, like HHH in 2003?

    ReplyDelete
  42. Says the man that believes in X-Pac Heat.

    ReplyDelete
  43. 2015 is WAY worse!

    ReplyDelete
  44. Board's become very bad-tempered and bitchy lately. It was very calm and peaceful for a while after Christmas.

    ReplyDelete
  45. Before TLC, Miz beat Jerry Lawler in a TLC match on RAW.

    ReplyDelete
  46. The Ghost of Matt_INDEED!!!January 29, 2015 at 6:59 AM

    I don't use the term X-Pac heat. I do believe there are some characters people will change the channel over because I've done it myself. But you're an idiot if you don't know the difference between an annoying character you'd rather not watch and a kayfabe bad guy that you want someone to beat up. These exist.

    ReplyDelete
  47. What if he felt this way about Miz when he was a face?

    ReplyDelete
  48. If you can't get heel heat feuding with one of the greatest babyfaces of all goddamned time in the King, you aren't a heel champion.

    ReplyDelete
  49. Roman hasn't made it there yet.

    ReplyDelete
  50. He will and YOU'LL LIKE IT

    ReplyDelete
  51. He'll probably come down with a bad case of gout a week before Wrestlemania.

    ReplyDelete
  52. I think instances of widespread audience dislike of a heel turning people off from the product are the exception to the rule.

    ReplyDelete
  53. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GEq75UxSRE

    ReplyDelete
  54. I hated that JBL became champion and thus was less likely to watch Smackdown PPVs during his reign

    ReplyDelete
  55. That was damn good.

    ReplyDelete
  56. Not for lack of trying...that concussion he got was almost as sick as Lesnar's.

    ReplyDelete
  57. The real question is who booked him to beat John Cena at Mania?


    What was the point of that? Miz as a heel champ for 5 months in the era of dual world titles is perfectly fine, main eventing Mania??


    Winning in the main event of Mania???

    ReplyDelete
  58. To set up the main event of Wrestlemania 28?

    ReplyDelete
  59. ROCK YOU LIKE A HURRICANEJanuary 29, 2015 at 7:19 AM

    I think we're unanimous in that Morrisson should have won the Rumble and fought Miz in the semi-main event.

    ReplyDelete
  60. Couldn't wipe that look off his face.

    ReplyDelete
  61. ROCK YOU LIKE A HURRICANEJanuary 29, 2015 at 7:21 AM

    Rock-Cena should have happened than. Failing that, advertise Edge's retirement match. F

    ReplyDelete
  62. That's the thing I hated about Miz winning. He won the match and for some reason Rock wants to fight Cena at next year's WM. Shouldn't Rock have wanted to fight the world champion and new number 1 guy in the promotion?

    ReplyDelete
  63. Now find the one where he flubs his lines and dies live on Raw during the Diva Search.


    Funny thing is even in that debacle he still managed to meet his future wife Maryse.

    ReplyDelete
  64. ROCK YOU LIKE A HURRICANEJanuary 29, 2015 at 7:22 AM

    That's why I gave fallback options.

    ReplyDelete
  65. No, because he was retired. He just really disliked Cena.

    ReplyDelete
  66. ROCK YOU LIKE A HURRICANEJanuary 29, 2015 at 7:26 AM

    The thing with The Miz is that he brings out a level of hatred I've never seen in the modern era. Otherwise reasonable people go berserk debating him. Failing to find a way to harness this power is a crime by WWE. Not their biggest one but still a huge mistake.

    ReplyDelete
  67. The Ghost of Matt_INDEED!!!January 29, 2015 at 7:26 AM

    You're an idiot.

    ReplyDelete
  68. The Miz as Wrestlemania Main Eventer, described in six words:

    "Still better than King Kong Bundy."

    ReplyDelete
  69. ROCK YOU LIKE A HURRICANEJanuary 29, 2015 at 7:26 AM

    That pre-match video of The Miz was the best part of WM27.

    ReplyDelete
  70. It's Japanese style respect!

    ReplyDelete
  71. Exactly. Miz has, to my recollection, rarely if ever drawn widespread apathy as a reaction.

    ReplyDelete
  72. By definition, two WORLD titles lessens the importance of both, and over time lessened the impact of these moments you reference

    ReplyDelete
  73. I think the Edge thing came all too quickly. I'm not sure how far in advance they really knew.


    If they did know... then go with Cena/Edge one last time and have Rock do the same thing.

    ReplyDelete
  74. They weren't paying Rock to wrestle on that show.

    ReplyDelete
  75. I know the difference. I just don't think it matters- which is specifically what I said- at least not very often. So maybe if you're going to call someone an idiot, at least don't willfully misinterpret their point?

    While the audience is smarter now overall than ever before, we're still the exception in terms of fans who consciously recognize things like "X-Pac heat" or the difference between hating a character and hating the performer. The number of people who cognitively recognize that difference and separate them is small.

    If you want to get into PPV numbers to see if a guy is a "draw" or not, I'd say determining what kind of draw a heel is was almost always tricky and now is borderline impossible in an era in which individuals are rarely positioned to draw individually, face or heel.

    So yes, I maintain that it rarely matters. If a heel can get loudly booed and get a babyface over, I have a hard time finding negatives in that until someone can prove to me that that heel is somehow an anti-draw. You think Mizdow is just getting over by doing goofy stunt double shit? You think playing off of the most obnoxious douche heel on earth isn't helping him get over?

    ReplyDelete
  76. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

    ReplyDelete
  77. The Ghost of Matt_INDEED!!!January 29, 2015 at 7:27 AM

    You're welcome!

    ReplyDelete
  78. Sure. We all have such reactions. I just don't think there's a larger point to extrapolate from our own individual opinions on such things most of the time.

    ReplyDelete
  79. Miz would've been a lot better off if they'd been able to go ahead and do Rock/Cena at WM27, and then done Miz/Morrison for the title at WM27.


    The dude was red-hot as a heel in 2010, had cut some awesome promos that year and I thought was a fine choice to carry the belt as a heel, at the time. Should he have main-evented WrestleMania with it? Probably not. But his ringwork was, at the time (and probably for the only time in his career), adequate at worst. As silly as it may have been for his first feud to be with Lawler...those matches were shockingly not terrible.

    He was obviously not a long-term main event guy, or else he'd have stayed there because they actually wanted him to. But he's remained mostly over as an obnoxious heel and there's always a use for a guy like that.

    ReplyDelete
  80. John Cena beats Miz to win the WWE Title.


    Rock comes out and says that would look better over his shoulder, are you a bad enough dude to hold onto that until i take it off you next year?


    There's literally 146,734,684 different better ways to book that match.

    ReplyDelete
  81. Didn't Miz beat Lawler via shenanigans anyway?!

    ReplyDelete
  82. Scott Hall had X-Pac heat, or whatever you want to call it. The Observer did a study on who was on screen during ratings fluctuations between the two shows, and he was number 1 for people tuning out. Likely due to his survey schtick always being less than essential viewing.

    ReplyDelete
  83. I think it was more likely Guerrero would've got it than Benoit that year.

    ReplyDelete
  84. It was actually against Orton. Randy's great and all, but he's the last guy you call if you want to make a star out of someone.

    ReplyDelete
  85. Yeah, I remember the pop he got when he cashed in - just as loud for his victory. Should've booked him as a ruthless and slippery character from that moment onwards.

    ReplyDelete
  86. Admit it, you lost this one.

    ReplyDelete
  87. He should have, because Miz was a terrible face.

    ReplyDelete
  88. And I think Battle Kat was rather obviously stating that Miz was one of those exceptions.

    ReplyDelete
  89. He doesn't make me want to boo. He makes me want to fast-forward. I wouldn't tune in to watch him lose - I wouldn't tune in.

    I hate him heel or face. I don't rate his ability, look, promo style heel or face

    Is this difficult to understand? If someone walked in off the street and stepped into a WWE ring with ZERO ability and everyone booed, is that heel heat?

    ReplyDelete
  90. Thank you - that's exactly what I meant

    ReplyDelete
  91. Fortunately, Miz did get heel heat feuding with Jerry Lawler.

    ReplyDelete
  92. Never saw this before:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G814ARn3HZM

    ReplyDelete
  93. Are you trolling again?

    ReplyDelete
  94. That's because you're in the Dis Cuss section.

    ReplyDelete
  95. He's rather you hate him for everything he is than love him for something he's not.

    ReplyDelete
  96. What would be the main main event?

    ReplyDelete
  97. The Ghost of Matt_INDEED!!!January 29, 2015 at 7:27 AM

    This is exactly what Battle Kat meant. It's not kayfabe heat, it's "I'm gonna go watch the football game now" heat.

    ReplyDelete
  98. It made him look like a real star... too bad he couldn't really deliver in the ring.

    ReplyDelete
  99. Miz is a classic case of a guy who got over enough to get to the top spot but couldn't maintain it. He was dead in the water when they announced The Rock for Wrestlemania that year along when with feuding with Jerry Lawler instead of the far superior choice of John Morrison. He did enough to get to the top and then got fucked/wasn't good enough in some combination.


    But I give Miz credit, he worked very hard at crafting a character, not just a gimmick. As I recall at the time, he was really hot as a heel and put himself in a position to get picked. And the promo they did of him behind that control room was great.

    ReplyDelete
  100. It's been 15 years since the IC title meant something.

    Gotta love how that should be the focus of something, yet, the truck load of good angles that came from the World title should be ignored. Right on.

    ReplyDelete
  101. The Ghost of Matt_INDEED!!!January 29, 2015 at 7:27 AM

    Ultimately, Christian winning a world title meant nothing. You don't think of Christian and go "one of the greats," and definitely not because he won a smackdown title.


    Did the world title mean something? Sure. When they first started it. Like Ian said, it gave Eddie an opportunity to be WWE champion. It gave HHH his title while Brock was WWE champion. It promoted guys in the early years of the title, but as it went on it became "#2, smackdown switch-a-roo title".


    They need to rebuild the prestige of the I-C and not worry about a secondary world title.

    ReplyDelete
  102. Not as good as Roman Reigns

    ReplyDelete
  103. It just makes me laugh that they compound why people hate Cena. The guy comes out and challenges Rey to a title match at the end of the show, when Rey has already wrestled once. WHAT A HERO!

    ReplyDelete
  104. The Ghost of Matt_INDEED!!!January 29, 2015 at 7:27 AM

    You hate Andre because he broke the bromance with Hogan. You don't hate Andre because everything about him annoys the crap out of you, and you'd like to fast forward every segment he's in.


    That's the difference between a good heel and a bad one.

    ReplyDelete
  105. The Miz's 1st opponent was not Jerry Lawler it was then 7 time World Champion Randy Orton, the Miz faced and defeated him at both TLC & Royal Rumble.

    Miz's PPV Buys As World Champion

    TLC 2010 - 195,000 buys, down from the previous year's 228,000
    Royal Rumble 2011 - 476,000 buys, up from the previous year's 465,000
    Elimination Chamber 2011 - 200,000 buys, down from the previous year's 272,000
    Wrestlemania XXVII - 1,124,000 buys, up from the previous year's 885,000
    Extreme Rules 2011 - 209,000 buys, up from the previous year's 182,000

    ReplyDelete
  106. There's a difference between a blizzard and a tornado, but they're both storms nonetheless.


    "X-pac Heat" and your definition of heel heat are both two shades of the same color.


    Apathy is a much worse fate than "X-Pac Heat".

    ReplyDelete
  107. You're telling us you missed out on Kenzo Suzuki,Mordecai and all that great exclusive Smackdown talent?

    ReplyDelete
  108. It's still only January, mind you... but this one month has been so bad that I'm inclined to agree.

    ReplyDelete
  109. Miz was probably my favourite champ of the last few years. Bryan could have topped him, but that didn't really work out.

    Miz and Riley were great.

    ReplyDelete
  110. If it helps get a babyface over, then yes. That's the goal. We all love our heels, but wrestling is ultimately about good triumphing over bad. You think Daniel Bryan got to WMXXX all on his own? No, having a cadre of obnoxious dick heels to play off of, that many smarks professed to legitimately hate and not want to watch, objectively, unquestionably helped.

    ReplyDelete
  111. I'm clearly not. I'm not the one saying "admit it you lost". You're either 8 years old or trying to get a reaction.

    ReplyDelete
  112. Not sure why I'm getting mocked for my individual reaction.

    ReplyDelete
  113. Do people think Miz is as good a face as he is a heel?

    ReplyDelete
  114. So you found somebody that misunderstands the purpose of being a heel as much as you. Congrats?

    ReplyDelete
  115. Exactly. This "I hate him, but not for the reasons I want to" shit is silly. That kind of heel heat is always usable no matter why it exists.

    ReplyDelete
  116. I am neither. Do you enjoy being wrong?

    ReplyDelete
  117. That was gonna be my question, did they even know before WM27? I don't think they did.

    ReplyDelete
  118. That's something that can be tangibly proven. Should that happen, I'll reconsider my opinion. But like I said, I don't think proving a heel in 2010-present is a draw or not is an easy (possible?) thing to do.

    ReplyDelete
  119. exactly. almost everyone would have looked horrible (and like they didn't "belong") if they had been put into the same WrestleMania 27 situation.

    ReplyDelete
  120. You don't have to like the heel as a performer for his character to be an effective heel.

    ReplyDelete
  121. the insane thing is, in a way they are not even doing it with Reigns (the majority of the Rumble booking seemed more like walking on eggshells and almost "hiding" instead of "showcasing" him. I mean, can you imagine Michaels, Austin, Flair .... having the seem kind of insignificant role over the course of "their" Rumbles?).

    ReplyDelete
  122. The Ghost of Matt_INDEED!!!January 29, 2015 at 8:06 AM

    Changing the channel when someone is on might as well be the definition of apathy.

    ReplyDelete
  123. there is a difference between "I hate that JBL is champion, getting so much mic time etc." and "I hate JBL".

    ReplyDelete
  124. ARRRRGH THE BARBARIANJanuary 29, 2015 at 8:08 AM

    I thought it was fine, both of them getting concussed/Cena being pissed before the match started didn't help. So the match blew because of it and the false finish was idiotic. But the story was fine. Rock was pissed at Cena, so he dicked him over.

    ReplyDelete
  125. just curious: are there heels that you hate "the right way"?

    ReplyDelete
  126. Exactly. Miz just isn't a guy to put on a good/exciting match from any perspective. Tremendous heel though.

    ReplyDelete
  127. especially because "X-Pac" heat in a way is "heel heat for smarks". because let's face it, usually most of "us" don't hate any of the heels. the chances are that if a heel does a great job, "we" like him more and want to cheer for him.

    (it's not like most of the people here were clamoring for CM Punk, Edge or Seth Rollins to be beaten by Cena or The Undertaker because they did so horrible things and "deserved it")

    ReplyDelete
  128. Miz is great. He's such an effective heel.

    ReplyDelete
  129. as usual when this kind of discussion occurs: imo that's not true. Smackdown was great for almost 3/4 of 2009.

    (and 2011 at least had its great moments, from "Summer of Punk" to paranoid heel R-Truth)

    ReplyDelete
  130. The moment he cracked his head on the floor you knew he had to have a concussion but the match was dull/bad before that. The biggest problem with that main event was no matter who was wrestling EVERYTHING was a backdrop to setting up Rock/Cena. For the most part considering his abilities Miz I thought did about as well as he was going to do as World Champion.

    ReplyDelete
  131. I'm not mocking you for your reaction, personally. I do think you don't quite get the purpose a heel is supposed to serve and why it doesn't really matter very much if you like him as a performer, however.

    You know what heels are who fans really like? Heels who start getting cheered and should turn babyface soon. (Note: I'm not one of the super militant types about this who thinks that if someone like, say, Seth Rollins is getting face pops that he isn't doing his job as a heel. There's only so much you can do, then you put it in the fans' hands to react how they will, and sometimes the most slimy, obnoxious dick heel will become beloved no matter how well they were doing as heels.)

    ReplyDelete
  132. And this is why, as I said below, that I'm not super militant about heel heat. Rollins is the most recent example, but some will go so far as to say any heel getting cheered isn't doing his job. Rollins has been an amazing heel, but you can't control the fans. Sometimes they're gonna like a guy too much to keep him heel.

    ReplyDelete
  133. Yeah, that was kind of a dick move. (Though I don't mind when babyfaces are assholes, because I grew up with Stone Cold and The Rock, who both would have objectively been awful real-life people.)

    I've changed my mind on this one. I've always said Punk coming back ASAP was the right move, rather than the fantasy of him kidnapping the title for months and doing some indies/social media tour with it. And from Punk's perspective, if the choice was indeed his, I think it was the right one: the storyline he came back to sucked and set him back a few months, but striking while the iron was hot and main-eventing the next several PPVs, including the biggest show of the year, is hard to say no to when you've never been at that level before.

    But from the WWE's perspective, Cena/Mysterio absolutely could have carried Summerslam, and then you could bring Punk back at the end of that show.

    ReplyDelete
  134. Nah, Punk can work with a staph infection. Reigns can go with grout or a severed head.

    ReplyDelete
  135. No. I've watched for 25 years, but even as a kid I liked who I liked. Heel or face, if I don't like your move set or promos I'll fast forward or go make some food. I hate the Miz because I think he sucks. As in, if I was stood in developmental and saw him, I'd think he didn't have "it". That's my opinion. That's why I hate him - as a performer. Same reason I hate Roman Reigns. Shitty move set or bad acting is not designed to get heel heat

    ReplyDelete
  136. I don't think anyone else was saying that, either.

    ReplyDelete
  137. I didn't say that. I'm saying that additional World titles are not the only way of elevating someone to a high status within the roster.

    ReplyDelete
  138. I've been watching wrestling for nearly 25 years, since age 11. I get it. Honestly, I get it. I really, really, really get it. I really do.

    ReplyDelete
  139. So because it worked that way, that means a different thing can't also work?

    ReplyDelete
  140. I just don't think:


    I don't like heel wrestler x
    You're not supposed to, he's a heel


    really goes anywhere.

    ReplyDelete
  141. I believe that's what the guy above was saying when mentioning Christian, Mark Henry, Batista etc, that the World titles were key to enhancing their status. I'm saying, in my opinion, that they were not key and that there are other ways to achieve the same status without additional World titles.

    ReplyDelete
  142. A triple threat of Miz / Morrison / Bryan at Mania 27 could have been really great.

    ReplyDelete
  143. "Key to enhancing their status" and "the only way" aren't the same thing. In those instances, the belts did help those guys and made them feel like a bigger deal than they otherwise would have. Could they have done so without that? Possibly, but they didn't, and what they did do worked and holy fuck this is a boring conversation at this point.

    ReplyDelete
  144. Probably because that's the only place it's supposed to go. The correct conclusion has been reached.

    We can think we're above the dumb marks by making some distinction, and sure, we do have a more informed opinion because we're diehards. What I'm saying is that if 10,000 people are loudly booing a heel, that heel is being effective. Does that mean said heel should be pushed to the top and be put in position to try and draw money? Not necessarily, but that's another story.

    ReplyDelete
  145. If it's boring don't reply then. Nobody is asking you to. I posted my comment, my opinion, on the titles and The Miz. That was it. You're the one who's deemed it necessary to pick me up on every single thing, so if it's boring then look in the mirror.

    ReplyDelete
  146. Miz was on a hot streak and certainly a better choice at the time than Randy Orton. It looks sillier in hindsight than it was.

    The problem was he could not deliver a match without being heavily protected and padded in three ways and four ways and gimmicks.

    ReplyDelete
  147. I've mentioned a few times that he should have at least come out of that reign as someone to protect to an extent in the upper midcard akin to say Dibiase or Owen in the past. It's always useful to have a heel who's over who can fill in as a challenger on a TV or B PPV main event. Instead they had him jobbing clean to Brodus Clay a year after his reign.

    ReplyDelete
  148. But I hate Big Show and Kane right now. They are heels. It's not because they are doing their job.


    Just like Triple H in 2003. I mean, everyone hated him, but that probably doesn't mean he should've been shoved down our throats for 10 months

    ReplyDelete

Post a Comment