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'A cyclical business'

Scott,

How responsible do you think 2002-2004 era HHH and Taker are for the state of the product today? I remember that shortly after Austin walked out and The Rock left for Hollywood, the subsequent business slump was explained away as a result of 'cyclical' business and not the fact that the remaining main-eventers didn't have the drawing power of Austin/Rock (to be fair, who did?) I remember it vividly as being the first time Vince seemed complacent about house numbers and buy rates (although I remember some crappy 'shock tv to try to rebuild ratings). It just seems that this is the genesis point of the 'none bigger than the company' philosophy that they have now.

Joe


I think the true genesis point was Brock winning the UFC title after getting out of his non-compete, because Vince was apparently REALLY butthurt about that for a long time.  But yeah, I remember back in 2002 when Austin and Rock both took time off, and the word was that HHH and Taker were going to step up and be the big stars.  And everyone was like "Yeah, OK then, good luck with that."  Thank Jebus that they found John Cena when they did, because can you imagine what the business would have been like without him?  

Comments

  1. Brock wins at 31, Heyman comes out the next night and cuts a promo saying no one can beat Lesnar etc etc. Announce this is the last night they are contracted for and they are leaving for UFC after tonight. Paul says they won't be taking the title with them, they're just gonna leave it in the middle of the ring as a sign of Brock's dominance.


    Authority freaks out. HHH puts the building on lockdown so Brock can't leave while they figure out a plan to get the title off him because Seth is too chickenshit to challenge him. Daniel Bryan challenges Brock. Authority laughs it off but eventually make the match because they figure while Brock is killing Bryan, Brock may be vulnerable to a cash in. Bryan beats Brock for the title in a glorious overbooked 20 minute 1999 throwback match.

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  2. Stranger in the AlpsMarch 9, 2015 at 8:24 AM

    UFC is real. How do you "work it out" for Brock to win the their title? UFC is dealing with a PED/drug testing issue, and I'm sure White wants to jeopardize things even more by "arranging" for a wrestler to win the title and then use it for an appearance on a wrestling show. This only helps WWE and does the opposite for UFC.


    Now can we please put Roman Reigns/Brock Lesnar to bed? It's very, very tired and is making daddy cranky.


    You all have NOT been following the blog mantra: "Let it play out..."

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  3. Stranger in the AlpsMarch 9, 2015 at 8:27 AM

    For as much shit as smarks give John Cena, he was the man they needed at the time they needed him.


    10 years later, he's still there in the same spot, and there is no one else even close to succeeding him if he dies in a fire.

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  4. Lucha underground have become my favorite weekly wrestling show with NxT, hope they can stick around a long time

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  5. See, I disagree with Scott. Cena comes in and becomes the focal point of the company...but it's not like HHH and Taker were shunted aside. They were/are still in top spots. Hell, they're still in top spots NOW, taking two marquee matches at the upcoming Mania that are perceived as bigger than whatever Cena will do.

    It's not like Cena led the company to a creative golden age past the RAW/Smackdown reigns of terror of HHH and Taker.

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  6. Batista, too. Him and Cena rose up together and replaced (effectively) HHH and Undertaker.

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  7. I hope that Jesus poster who has been around the last few days comes in to give us his thoughts on Scott calling Jesus "Jebus".

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  8. Belee_Matt!_INDEED!!!March 9, 2015 at 8:45 AM

    *catalogs this as "Cool ideas that will never, ever happen."*

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  9. Knowing Cena, he'll probably attempt to no-sell being on fire.

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  10. I'm a fan of the "real or not" part of breaking reigns' arm

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  11. Without Cena and Batista they still had Kurt Angle, Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit, Edge, Randy Orton, Booker T, Rob Van Dam, Eddie Guerrero... ok, none of them are looking like He-Man, but Bret and HBK didn't either.

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  12. Stranger, I had no idea you were a founding member of the chain gang!

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  13. Stranger in the AlpsMarch 9, 2015 at 8:55 AM

    Word Life! That's basic thuganomics.

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  14. The Love-Matic Grampa!March 9, 2015 at 8:56 AM

    While I wouldn't book a "shoot", I'm not adverse to the idea of them playing up Brock's unpredictability and the Authority's inability to control him. Instead of trying to portray Reigns as Brock's equal (because no one's buying that), make it clear that he's in over his head and Brock is a killer. Then maybe, MAYBE the fans might buy into Roman as an underdog.

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  15. "The business is cyclical" is one of the most asinine generally accepted statements out there. Things are not cyclical - they just bear resemblances to past events, but there's no magical universal law that fates life to turn back on itself.

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  16. God people, stop being stupid.

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  17. - Book a Brock shoot where he wins at Mania and Reigns is left in a puddle of blood, piss and vomit.
    - Next night on Raw, the Authority claims during a 30 minute promo that Brock is still under contract and that he has to show up for $9.99 events. They'll find a way to get the title off of Brock by any means necessary.
    - Extreme Rules: Meng is brought in to fight Brock in a deathmatch. Brock wins.
    - May PPV: Ken Shamrock is brought in to get Brock out of the WWE's zone. Brock easily wins a Lions Den match.
    - June PPV: Brock vs. The Big Show and Kane in a handicap match. Brock is destroyed and barely comes out with a victory.
    - July PPV: Brock vs. 100 gorillas. Blood, piss, vomit, etc. Brock wins again.
    - Summerslam: DX reunites with their jeep from the Monday Night Wars. Brock is scared shitless and retreats to UFC like a coward, leaving a trail of piss from the ring to the stage. The WWE is saved once again by Triple H!

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  18. Not sure going to late-WCW's "IS IT A SHOOT?!" booking is the smartest long term decision.

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  19. Fork thy tongue!

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  20. They wouldn't have needed him or Batista, if they hadn't split the roster. They still had many others.

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  21. And then Rollins would immediately cash in, pin Bryan, and we'd get a freaking repeat of fall 2013. No thanks.

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  22. This sounds like one of those emails from Bill Simmons' mailbags that ends with "yep, these are my readers."

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  23. I disagree that he's in the same spot. His role as the top guy has been cut back since WrestleMania 29. Yeah, he still shows up in the title picture every now and then, but WWE has done a pretty good job of fading him just enough.

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  24. No no. This one is like you, only not evil.

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  25. I don't think the business is "cyclical". It's down for a reason, and it's up for a reason. And it's not down or up for everybody. For example, in 1997 the WCW was on top, but WWF was down. In 2000 the WWF was on top and WCW was down. Was the business in 97 up or down? If someone says it was easy to get high ratings and buyrates in 2000, because the business was up, go ask WCW...

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  26. The era of Booger Red was a pretty great one. He kept the business strong when he was making asses famous.

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  27. Rollins cashes in during the Brock/Bryan match, it basically becomes a triple threat match but actually two separate single matches.

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  28. I agree but just to play devils advocate, cant something be cyclicle without it having to do with fate or whatever. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles popularity I always thought was cyclical. It always had its fans but every few years or so when a new movie or cartoon comes out it becomes huge, then settles back in again.

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  29. He crippled more people than polio and he didnt write checks his ass couldn't cash!

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  30. He never had a sale in his yard!

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  31. "GOLDBERG REFUSED TO FOLLOW THE SCRIPT!"

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  32. "Not the worst idea ever" only because Jesse Baker has set that bar so high (or low). No one thinks Reigns (a football player) would be able to hang with Brock in a "real" MMA fight, so what is compelling about that?

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  33. Forget the UFC title, it falls apart when the e-mailer gave Brock the option of REALLY breaking Reigns' arm. Because that's what wrestlers do -- intentionally allow their bones to be broken to forward an angle.

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  34. I'm not him, but as a Christian as well, Scott not actually being a believer in any way sort of form means his misappropriation of the name doesn't mean anything, because he doesn't know any better.

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  35. The Love-Matic Grampa!March 9, 2015 at 9:27 AM

    And I'd argue that the loss of those guys is what put WWE into its current state. Because once those guys left/retired/died, they weren't really replaced with stars of comparable value. MVP? Kennedy? Miz? Yeah, didn't really pan out. Even guys like Ziggler who had potential never really lived up to it. As much as when complain about "Cena and a bunch of interchangeable parts", there's some justification about why things worked out that way.

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  36. "Thank Jebus that they found John Cena when they did, because can you
    imagine what the business would have been like without him? "

    Sure, it's called WWE in 2016, which is when Cena will likely reduce his schedule. That's exactly why they're trying so hard with Reigns.

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  37. Here's an idea. The kids will love it.

    Let's have Reigns fight Brock for a while, with Brock eventually getting the pin.

    Then the Shield music hits. Brock looks confused - why is their music playing when he's just won.

    Enter Rollins AND Ambrose, down the stairs, in their Shield gear.

    All three beat the tar out of Brock, finishing with the Triple Powerbomb.

    Rollins then cashes in his MitB and wins the title.

    Next night on Raw, Rollins reveals that the entire 'breakup' of the Shield was a long con, with the end game to take the belt at WM and put the Shield immediately at the top of the pile. They could even turn face again, as they're not going to take orders from HHH now - they're in charge.

    It admittedly makes Reigns look a bit weaker, but at the same time it'll give them an easy way to move the focus away from his weak in-ring performance in the main event and onto the big shock outcome. Plus the MitB has never been cashed in, iirc, in a WM main event, so it'd be an iconic moment.

    It also gives Brock the excuse to go off for a while and get the UFC out of his system before he comes back to wreck the Shield further down the line. Plus, it gets Ambrose out of the mire he's stuck in.

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  38. The Love-Matic Grampa!March 9, 2015 at 9:33 AM

    Not only would Cena going Hollywood be ironic, it would also expose just how reliant WWE has become on him and how lost they're going to be without him. You never want to say someone is irreplaceable, but Cena might be as close as they come.

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  39. Battle Kat LitterMarch 9, 2015 at 9:33 AM

    2003 WWE taught me that the correct pronounciation is "Hey Zeus"

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  40. "The business is cyclical" has always been their way of saying "Sure, business sucks now, and you COULD blame it on our consistently poor booking and financial decisions. But every few years, something amazing happens and we end up succeeding despite ourselves."

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  41. "The boys in the back would totally respect it!"

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  42. Battle Kat LitterMarch 9, 2015 at 9:35 AM

    Roman Reigns vs Butterbean

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  43. Ongoing popularity does not make something cyclical. For example, rebooting Star Trek in 2009 does not mean it's a "cyclical" franchise - it just means the original franchise had been dead for a few years so JJ saw a way to make some money off a reboot because certain types of stories hold universal appeal. Generally when people say shit like "history is cyclical" they mean that events are going to repeat themselves in different forms for some bullshit metaphysical reason. Once you take that mindset it's real easy to shoehorn anything you want into your theory.

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  44. E-mailer is aware that UFC is not predetermined right?

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  45. That really ruins Reigns, which, I get it, smarks don't really care about that, but it would also ruin Ambrose (none of his motivations for the past year would have made ANY sense in retrospect). This would make only Rollins look really strong, which is not WWE's objective.

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  46. Oh, he's definitely irreplaceable. If Punk and Bryan weren't up to WWE's level of success and they figure their best shot is reverse-engineering the Rock and Cena with Reigns, they know he's irreplaceable.

    As far as Cena's schedule, I don't even think he'll necessarily be "going Hollywood" (but if Trainwreck and Sisters are both successes he'll get more offers), he'll just be lightening his schedule as he approaches 40. He already skips most Smackdowns as it is.

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  47. I'm going along with the WWE standard of not really caring about anyone's motivations making any sense when there's a potential big pop moment available ;)

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  48. The Love-Matic Grampa!March 9, 2015 at 9:42 AM

    Does it really "ruin" either guy, though? More so than exploding TVs and Looney Tunes promos? At least people would be happy to see the Shield again, and it gives WWE time to retool. Otherwise, you're looking at a heatless lame duck champion, a neutered chickenshit heel and whatever the hell Ambrose is supposed to be now.

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  49. "The business is cyclical"
    1984
    1998
    According to that "cycle," WWE should've had another boom period in 2012.

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  50. "At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul." - Happy Gilmore

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  51. For a good chunk of the year, Ambrose was in the hottest feud the company had, against his former partner and brother, Rollins. He was almost murdered via cinder block, and was seconds away from returning the favor before the Wyatt Hologram of Death interrupted him. To simply patch things up with the guy months later, and then to say "That was the plan all along" would be Higher Power-levels of ridiculousness, except even worse.

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  52. Reigns walks to the back with trainers, holding his broken arm. When he reaches Gorilla he finds John Cena waiting, an ice pack in his outstretched hand.

    "You earned this, Roman."

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  53. Still not as ridiculous as half the Kane and/or Big Show turns over the years, right enough. ;)

    Plus, didn't Randy Orton end up back with HHH despite HHH staging a home invasion at one point? (My memory's a bit fuzzy on the detail of that one, right enough)

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  54. Doctor FunkopolisMarch 9, 2015 at 9:46 AM

    Hogan was at that level when he left in 1993, but fate and Hogan's ego intervened and allowed them to survive.

    It still took a few years, but they weren't ever piling into the ground.

    On the flip side of that, Vince made sure to immediately rebuild Bret Hart and position Luger as a big deal. They made mistakes, but they made damn sure they had an out.

    I do not see the building an out for themselves this time.

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  55. The Love-Matic Grampa!March 9, 2015 at 9:46 AM

    "Ambrose sacrificed himself for the greater good. Plus, he's freaking nuts."

    And plus, you've got motivation for a feud later, as Ambrose realizes just how much he sacrificed for Rollins.

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  56. Battle Kat LitterMarch 9, 2015 at 9:46 AM

    Don't mention 2010 when John Cena is around. That was his worst year EVER

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  57. In wrestling people try to kill each other all the time and become friends later.

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  58. And Orton kissing Stephanie while Triple H was handcuffed to the ropes. I don't know what kind of relationship Trips & Steph have, but that seems a little out there to just "forgive and forget."

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  59. I thought his "worst year ever" was 2012, which is why he HAD to RISE ABOVE and beat The Rock at Mania 29.

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  60. This is why Austin is/was awesome. He'd team up with people, but he never really liked anyone and made that clear by giving them stunners for no good reason. "Thanks for saving my ass, Mick. Here's a stunner for your troubles!"

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  61. "Yep Mode" Abeyance Brown ©March 9, 2015 at 9:49 AM

    Yeah, he's still upset that he beat Brock on a B-Show.

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  62. Yeah, that's about it - it's used in Hollywood, etc, all the time. The mole telling the co-conspirator to kick his ass and "make it look good" to keep the cover story intact.

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  63. Dibs on praying for Scott's soul!

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  64. Mick was a sucker though. All his "friends" treated him like a loser. Especially The Rock.

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  65. The A-Team style video they did for one of the rap songs Cena put out was pretty awesome.

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  66. HHH was probably just thankful it wasn't Vince.

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  67. Ahhhh gotcha. You're too educated for this place.

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  68. Standing ovation from the Locker Room Leaders. Vince opens his door, to reveal a shining brass ring with a choir singing.

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  69. Yes, but it was 4 years later and Stephanie and Triple H both explained it as a partnership that was "best for business," and it was perfectly in character for them to do business together again, because they're all well-established scumbags.

    The post-Shield Ambrose is one hell-bent on revenge and taking what is rightfully his. He also promised that he'd thwart any attempt Rollins makes on cashing in. To just get over it would be to dismiss Ambrose's entire character. I just don't like the idea for that reason.

    I also don't like the idea for the fact that a large portion of the fanbase IS actually buying Reigns as a top guy, and for him to play second-fiddle to Rollins would just hurt Rollins' reign, and also hurt Reigns' character a lot. Would I mark out if that's how Mania actually ended? Absolutely. But it'd be one of those moments where, the more I'd think about it, the less I'd like it, because it wouldn't make much sense.

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  70. True, but Austin would do that to everyone that ever tried to help or be friends with him.


    Sidenote: if Mick was considered a loser by everyone does that mean Al Snow was the biggest loser of the Attitude Era?

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  71. Battle Kat LitterMarch 9, 2015 at 9:54 AM

    Typo corrected

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  72. The longer this newly-reformed Shield stays together, the weaker Reigns and Ambrose look, if you ask me. One huge question would be, What would have happened had Reigns won the match against Lesnar? We're to expect that they would have reformed anyways, and that Rollins would just happily play second-fiddle? What does he do with the briefcase at that point? Lose on purpose, finger-poke style? There's just way too many holes in this scenario. I know, it's wrestling, it doesn't have to make sense because wrestling rarely does, but it just rubs me the wrong way.

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  73. That's from Billy Madison.

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  74. I realize this. I think people just loved The Shield and aren't into Reigns and Ambrose's current direction, so they're grasping at straws for a way to get them all back together, but the reality is, this scenario makes all 3 of them look weaker in the long run.

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  75. Again, it could just be that Ambrose is utterly nuts enough to go along with it for the promise of being able to be in charge of things, or just to fuck with people, because he's absolutely tits-mental. I think that would fit his immediately post-Shield character better than the utter mire he's trapped in at the moment, playing hide and seek with a belt.

    It would make Reigns look weak, but not TOO weak, as in my scenario he'd still take Brock to a longish match, and he'd be the man delivering the big triple powerbomb at the end. If Ambrose has the IC belt at this point, then you've got a stable of the Rumble Winner, WWE Champ and IC Champ - that's a powerful trio (especially if they come to their senses and book the IC champ properly for once).

    It also opens up easy cracks in the alliance at a later date - maybe Reigns starts to resent having put in all the work to win the rumble and weaken Brock only for Rollins to start taking all the credit... gives them a chance to reboot the breakup of the Shield and do it properly.

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  76. Rollins says, if Reigns won, then it's all good, as the Shield is still on top, and the MitB is a great backup plan - if anyone wants to take the title from the Shield, they have to go through Reigns AND Rollins.

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  77. "May the Force be with you..."
    - Spock

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  78. To be fair, you had a good point. If you define "cyclical" as an ebb and flow of popularity of a franchise then it does work.

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  79. Business is Cyclical=Hey, Look over there!

    However, I can't help but notice the WM stadium shows from 24 on. Even if it's not at a creative peak, business was booming. At least until the network launched.

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  80. Yeah he had his head destroyed and his dog fed to him right?

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  81. I'm sort of on-board with a Shield reformation as a strong stable with the belts... eventually. But I just think to do it at Mania this year is too soon after their bitter breakup. It also ruins all of Bryan's hard work in getting Reigns taken seriously by a good portion of the audience. "This guy won the Rumble. Then he beat the most popular superstar they have. I'm starting to like this guy and I want him to win at Mania. Wait, wow he's lost to Brock Lesnar, and is playing second-fiddle to this guy we hate who now won the championship thanks for a fluke briefcase cash-in?" Doesn't exactly inspire confidence in the fanbase. Business-wise, I think it's a horrible decision, and storytelling-wise, it's not very logical. If they're going to turn Reigns heel, have Heyman screw Lesnar and do it that way.

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  82. But he didn't win, so now they only have to go through Rollins. And that makes Reigns look weak, by flat-out stating that. I just think there are too many logic holes for this to go down at Mania this year. I loved The Shield, but I'd rather them reform when it actually makes some sense.

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  83. Problem is, the WWE treats faces and heels as two distinct teams.

    So if Reigns turns heel, he'll just end up tagging with Rollins against faces who are put together simply because they're both faces.

    There's never any subtlety to it. It's always "faces v heels" and that's it.

    Remember, though, if Ambrose takes the IC then he too will have beaten Bryan to get there, so they could put some focus on that too - both Reigns and Ambrose have gotten the better of him. Now... it's Rollins' turn.

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  84. Of course you'd say that,your son wrestles there!!!

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  85. "Break his arm (real or not)"


    o_O


    "If he dies, he dies"

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  86. So it should have been Punk or Bryan?

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  87. "Ween" Dean AndrewsMarch 9, 2015 at 10:10 AM

    e.g. ice ages are cyclical.

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  88. "Thank Jebus that they found John Cena when they did, because can you
    imagine what the business would have been like without him?"


    No, but we are trying to imagine what it will be like without him.

    Desperately.

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  89. I'm just saying it as a counterpoint to your "what if Reigns won?" question - I doubt they'd mention the possibility at all if Reigns didn't, and they'd move on pretty quickly. They've got form for just washing over things they can't be bothered explaining.

    My eventual aim for this, btw, is for Bryan to feud with the Shield, and bringing in his own backup - Balor and one other, whether Itami, Zayn or even Corbin (to be their 'Reigns' figure). A good run of absolutely immense six-man tags and various combinations would lead to some excellent matches, even if the logic is a bit lacking. :D

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  90. Do... some people not realize that the "Jebus" thing is a Simpsons reference?

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  91. It's a Simpsons reference...

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  92. That's not even accurate though. Cena back in 2004 was great and a breathe of fresh air. He was edgy, he was fresh, he got over using what he came up with.


    10 years later, but he's not the same character back in 2004. It wasn't probably 2008 or so he became this WWE golden boy robot, and the backlash started becoming obvious.

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  93. Lol -- sorry about that. Tend to refer to those movies as Happy Madison like his production company.

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  94. "You shall not pass!"
    - The Black Knight

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  95. I always point to the Benoit murder-suicide as the moment Cena became "the guy." He went on every talk show, wearing a suit, and calmly answered every question about wrestling and about the WWE having the company's back completely and 100%. Maybe that's an overstatement but I remember being impressed with how well he handled things as the face of the company.

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  96. Cyclical isn't a reason, but a result.


    It's okay the business is down because no Austin and no Rock. It's not okay the E is not getting the talent over the best they can, but it's clear they are actually hurting their own product.


    Punk was an opportunity they lost themselves by being dumb. And even if Punk would have left anyways because his personality, what about Bryan, the Wyatts, the Shield?


    Wrestling is only as great as it's stars, but the E isn't able to create any stars because of their decisions.

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  97. Worst_in_the_WorldMarch 9, 2015 at 10:19 AM

    And amazing that all these years later Vince STILL has to feed new stars to the fucking Undertaker. Undertaker getting grossly overpushed is one thing in WWE that certainly isn't cyclical.

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  98. It's still fake to me, dammit!

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  99. Yeah, the "cyclical" argument is bullshit business-speak. You want to see a cyclical business? Pool supplies, Christmas cards, etc. THOSE are cyclical businesses.

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  100. I remember Austin doing an interview in Raw Magazine where he said the "cyclical" theory is a bunch of bullshit to excuse that certain guys just aren't where they should be, or something like that.

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  101. I was surprised when he started getting title reigns again in 2007. I mean, the titles didn't mean all that much by that point but I really didn't think Undertaker needed them at that point in his career. While I assume he's going over Wyatt to avenge his loss last year, even if he puts him over I'm still somewhat annoyed that this sudden need to get Wyatt strong came at the expense of Ambrose, for the benefit of Undertaker in 2015.

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  102. "We shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender," - Hitler

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  103. Bryan could be given the belt and keep business steady while they reset and reconfigure their 3/5/10 year plan.

    It wouldn't take much to get Ziggler up to that level (though his foot-in-mouth syndrome may be worrying in a top guy).

    People still dig Ambrose even after becoming Carrot Top II. Ditch the goofy comedy and you have a guy the fans buy as legit who is very versatile as a performer.

    They've got outs. The question is how bad things have to get and in what way before they'll take one.

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  104. One of those reigns was rumored to be a chance for Taker to get a long run that he'd never had on top...and then he got injured right away.

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  105. How many substances was the e-mailer on when they authored this slice of mental instability?

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  106. Worst_in_the_WorldMarch 9, 2015 at 10:35 AM

    Using Ambrose as job fodder to get Bray Wyatt ready to become job fodder for the Undertaker in 2015 is just everything that's wrong with WWE today.


    And it'll kill Wyatt that much more because of how completely terrible the match is gonna be too, thanks to Taker. It's one thing for the young guy to lose valiantly in a 5-star classic (still shouldn't beat the young guy there, but ok.) But for Bray to lose ina boring lumbering Undertaker "kicky-punch-stall" special that the crowd is sitting on their hands for? The dude is gonna come out of it looking like a massive joke.


    But hey, gotta keep Undertaker strong so he can (contribute absolutely nothing towards) fill up the Texas stadium next year!

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  107. "Gersh gurndy morn-dee burn-dee, burn-dee, flip-flip-flip-flip-flip-flip-flip-flip-flip."
    - Beaker

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  108. "Ween" Dean AndrewsMarch 9, 2015 at 10:41 AM

    He doesn't let his dog poop in his yard! Michelle has to use the bathroom like everyone else.

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  109. Doctor FunkopolisMarch 9, 2015 at 10:48 AM

    For their case, I hope not too bad. But it looks like it will have to be epic levels of bad before they do.

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  110. To be fair, he got the world title, right?

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  111. Oh yeah, so it wasn't overly important, but he was the top guy on Smackdown with it for a while.

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  112. I like that he feels he has to assure everyone that Russo has nothing to do with the creative team.

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  113. Know what's weird? Cena main evented Mania's 22, 23 and didn't again until 27. Yeah, he was in a big match but he wasn't in the show ending match. Hogan, on the other hand, found his way into the main on 9 shows in a row. It only feels like 10 straight years of Cena

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  114. Doctor FunkopolisMarch 9, 2015 at 10:57 AM

    So...CM Punk then?

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  115. Doctor FunkopolisMarch 9, 2015 at 10:57 AM

    Didn't see this before I posted half of it.

    And to hell with you for remembering that Bryan should have been part of that equation, pal!

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  116. I think Ambrose did more damage to himself in recent months than losing to Wyatt did, but I understand I'm in the minority on this blog on Ambrose and his in-ring style/promos.

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  117. A novelty attraction and the guy who worked with the guy who drew money didn't draw money? Shocking.

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  118. This idea goes over so much of the audiences head and would never work. Way too smartmarkish and sounds like something Vince Russo would come up with

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  119. The author of this email should be institutionized.

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  120. Yeah, not enough is made of how Ambrose loses people during his matches because of things that have very little to do with booking.

    I like this plan, as it would give them a chance to refocus on both Ambrose and Reigns, building them from the ground up again. And also, probably, would give them a chance to have Ambrose go heel at some point, which is where his long-term future has always been.

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  121. "Thank Jebus that they found John Cena when they did, because can you imagine what the business would have been like without him?"

    All Orton, all the time. More Ken Anderson and MVP. On the plus side maybe more punk and byran.

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  122. TL;DR version of my theory on wrestling - it's cyclical with the drivers being (1) when America is at war (wartime has generally been low periods for wrestling - Vietnam, Gulf War I) and (2) the economy (lower-middle class incomes being the key). People don't want to see fake violence when real violence is on the screen all the time, and there's no money for wrestling when the target demographic has no money.

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  123. To be fair, this is an argument that pre-dates Vince, wrestling has found ways to make excuses for bad business pretty much from the start and they're all as bullshit now as they were then.

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  124. When business cooled off after Austin's heel turn, Triple H had said Austin wasn't a big draw anymore. After Triple H got the belt and business continued to drop, he said the business was cyclical. In the interview you're talking about, Austin mentions that

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  125. "Yep Mode" Abeyance Brown ©March 9, 2015 at 11:22 AM

    Wrestlecrap even made a whole chapter in it's Book of List explaining all of the ways they make excuses.

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  126. And this is why so many "dream bookers" are better off not being in the wrestling business.

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  127. "When Reigns is not around, all columns must mention Reigns."

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  128. I kind of enjoyed that Kane/Taker run in a "so bad it's good" type of way.

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  129. Why does everyone think this huge overlap exists between ufc and wwe fans? All this would do is call ufc legitimacy into question, and very rightly so.

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  130. This topic is bringing out the biggest idiots in full force

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  131. I'm not crazy. You're the one that's crazy. You're driving me crazy. They put me in an institution, said it was the only solution.

    ReplyDelete
  132. "Here he is, the most polarizing figure in sports entertainment today, 15-time World Champion Santino Marella!"

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  133. I think hindsight has shown that the only cycle to the business is the yearly seasons. Business is better at certain times of the year. Everything else is just promotions running hot and cold, good or bad booking, and the right talent at the right time.

    I'd say HHH & Undertaker have nothing to do with the state of today's product (as in-ring performers obviously). It's simply that WWE established a formula for its product over a decade ago and haven't deviated from it much since.

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  134. Hiiiiii-YAH!

    -Scooter

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  135. I really don't think they plan on him being a lame duck Bryan on the other hand would have been.

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  136. Jesus... It's really starting to sink in just how awful wm is going to be.

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  137. I feel like this topic hasn't been beaten into the ground enough.

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  138. How to wipe out WWE and UFC in 1 paragraph.

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  139. (Swedish Chef)

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  140. AverageJoeEverymanMarch 9, 2015 at 12:37 PM

    multiple times in the same sentence.

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  141. Reigns needs to win with D-Lo's chest protector.

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  142. Is Johnny still with Melina? I hope she never shows up in Lucha Underground ...

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  143. Break a fake arm!

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  144. Reigns should be booked to go toe to toe with Brock, then lose clean. That way he earns the fans' respect while -- hopefully -- entertaining them as well.

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  145. Its a fact that Lesnar is a "legit lunatic" now?

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  146. Stupidest idea I've ever heard

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  147. Awesome.

    (Vince is teary eyed, as the choir sings "Stand Back".)

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  148. I don't mind, it's good to know for a fact he's not involved.

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  149. You people are fucking insane.

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  150. Instead of going, "We were pretending the entire time!" I would prefer they just go the route of having them realize they are more powerful as a team than they are as individuals. I would rather have fans say "this one action of them getting back together doesn't quite make sense" than "the entire year of booking doesn't make sense."
    But I have to say, I do think the fans would explode if the Shield music played and Ambrose and Rollins came down in their gear.

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  151. "Russo didn't write this" will be on the marquee.

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  152. He can't save Wrestlemania - but he can save your soul.

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  153. Tank Abbot, WCW Champion

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  154. A yo Apollo, you know of this fight between you and the Russian do you think it might not be against him?

    Well if it's not against him stallion what was against?

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  155. IT BETTER NOT BE. Russo is the last thing that LU needs.

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  156. Wait a minute? That wasn't Churchill?

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  157. Three people, one on this blog discus, and Hulk Hogan claim it is.

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  158. The Bean should have gone to TNA and won the title. Hogan vs. Butterbeans - BOOK IT. I mean, seriously, Hogan sitting down at WrestleMania 31 - eating a bowl of butterbeans with John Cena is money.

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  159. Dean Ambrose should change his name to Shane Malenko.

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  160. You know what's simultaneously cool and mindblowing about Lucha Underground? Every single competitor, regardless of gender or height, is taken seriously, and everyone sells for everyone. Sexy Star has several victories over male competitors who sell like champs for her, as does Mascarita Sagrada.

    Can you imagine, say, Rollins selling for a Bella?

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  161. Yes, because a 1 minute 'Mania main event is what the WWE needs to get back on track!

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  162. Do you blame him?

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  163. Actually Rollins would probably be willing to sell for a Bella because he's pretty fucking professional.

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  164. The Love-Matic Grampa!March 9, 2015 at 4:22 PM

    At this point, I just want to see fresh new faces in an entertaining story. And it wouldn't be the first time that seemingly mortal enemies were actually in cahoots the entire time. Plus, you can easily sow the seeds with Roman and Ambrose later.

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  165. The Love-Matic Grampa!March 9, 2015 at 4:23 PM

    That might not be "the plan", but do you really see Roman suddenly gaining a wellspring of support between now and Summerslam? If he even holds it that long?

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  166. No. I see Vince refusing to accept the reality of things and thus stick with him come hell or high water.

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  167. The Love-Matic Grampa!March 9, 2015 at 4:35 PM

    Yeah, but will HHH just sit back and do nothing?

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  168. The Love-Matic Grampa!March 9, 2015 at 4:37 PM

    Yeah, probably. Plus, he's got NXT to occupy his time.

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  169. I think only ratings tanking and pressure from USA would be enough to make them abandon the experiment.

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  170. I'm sure it's been said a million times already, but honestly, who the fuck emails Scott with this shit?

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  171. The Love-Matic Grampa!March 9, 2015 at 4:40 PM

    I still wonder how USA feels about Cena essentially being moved down the card...

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  172. Ratings haven't been nearly bad enough for a second rate cable network to play a strong hand. Yet.

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  173. In the unlikely event Lesnar re-signs with WWE, I'd love to see him retain. You could actually apply Reigns not ready to a storyline, then actually push him like a guy trying to make it to the top instead of being CENAWINSLOL 2.0.

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  174. That one of the turn off in WWE, if your not in the upper-midcard/main event then you are basically presented as a total looser and a joke (see Big E, Cesaro, Kidd, Kofi, ...). No wonder the crowd sit on their hands during most of the show.

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  175. Book him to break his arm for real. Wow.

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  176. I keep waiting for them to do that. Its different from a triple threat because Rollins has no upside to pinning Bryan. So its like handicap match except Bryan and Rollins have to stop each other from winning. Or depending on the interpretation of the rules, Bryan could get the first fall an Rollins would then have to continue on trying to beat him for the title. Plus before Rollins cashes in he could be outside teasing his moment to steal Bryans thunder. So much potential for drama.

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  177. I haven't enjoyed wrestling as much as I enjoy lucha underground in a long time. It has such a great vibe of something that would have been on basic cable at 11 pm on Saturdays in the 80s. Granted I love El ray and grind house cinema too but I can't get enough of it. Not a tremendous fan of all the airtime cage has been getting lately but not much else negative to say.

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  178. man that was a bad idea thank god they don't book wrestling or work for ufc.

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  179. http://deadspin.com/heyman-promo-brock-lesnar-will-unify-the-ufc-wwe-t-1690444956 I hate to say I told you so...but I told you so. Seriously hilarious coincidence hahaha

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  180. The inherent absurdity of booking a "worked shoot" into a wrestling match never ceases to amaze me. Isn't a professional wrestling match, by its very nature, already a worked shoot?

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  181. Needs more Mountie.

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  182. I was wary of Cage when he first showed (he does look like the type of big talentless douche that WWE would push to the moon), but he's pretty damn good in ring.

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  183. Well, how do you feel about my idea now, after seeing how they categorically ruined Rollins as an 'intelligent' character after last night?

    I appreciate my logic has massive holes, but at least it would allow them to move on strongly as a group, rather than seeing the whole lot of them being wasted, any good being slowly ebbed away by the insane booking decisions aimed at putting over hot young talent like Orton, Kane, Big Show and HHH.

    ReplyDelete

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