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Body of Work

I still don't get why the WWE doesn't understand that a wrestler needs to have a solid body of work before they can be elevated up the card. Look at the top Hollywood actors. They didn't just show up and become stars of overnight. Robert Downey Jr was on SNL at one point. George Clooney was on the Facts of Life where I don't anyone saw him and said he's going to make millions as a movie star.  Point being, running anyone up the card at light speed without them having some body of solid work behind them rarely leads to long term success. The actor analogy should also serve to point out that it might take same character changes and finding the right "role" before someone takes off. I know that a lot of the problem is Vince immediately slotting guys when he sees them instead of trying to find the best "role" for them and the company.

Keep up the good work!


​It's not even that there needs to be a body of work, but more importantly there has to be SOME indication that the guy is catching fire.  I mean, hey, I didn't know who Margot Robbie was before seeing her in Focus, but one bikini scene was enough to win me over.  If you know what I mean.  In the pants.  Kind of like how Vince must feel when he sees Roman Reigns.  ​

Comments

  1. Like how people hate Shia LaBeouf?

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  2. Does that body of work necessarily have to be within WWE?

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  3. Yeah, they've been doing this for nearly 10 years. This is the first time it's been done without The Briefcase in a long time, though.

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  4. CruelConnectionNumber2March 22, 2015 at 7:16 PM

    You need to watch The Wolf of Wall Street, immediately.

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  5. They did it with The Royal Rumble many times, such as Sheamus and Alberto Del Rio.

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  6. It's harder today because of the Internet and they they treat the product as such a fake deal. I imagine if they actually treated the wrestling part as important and actually made wins and losses matter. Everything is so fake now that they can't get anyone over by just deciding to push them.

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  7. There are SO many actors who had little-to-no significant bodies of work before they hit mega-stardom.

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  8. Wrestling treated seriously is a small niche genre. A company as huge as WWE has to cast a bigger net. The biggest net is mindless entertainment, which is also much easier to produce in bulk.

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  9. They were on the right track with Reigns when he was in the Shield. Then it all went to hell.

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  10. Look at how many top stars were awesome as soon as they stepped into a WWF ring (I know some were in the WWF pre-vince jr): Piper, Dibiase, Hogan, Roberts, Perfect, Hall, Sid etc. They didn't need NXT or FCW or to learn the WWE style

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  11. I'm excited for Margot Robbie as Harley Quinn. In my pants.

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  12. Sheamus won the wwf title before being world champ. Del Rio should have beaten Edge but needed the mitb to win the title.

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  13. I'm not sure the acting analogy really works, nor does the 'body of work' argument necessarily apply. Some guys just have IT --- Kurt Angle was one of the top overall performers in pro wrestling within a year of his WWF debut, for instance. (Hell, maybe within six months of his debut.)

    Scott, if you liked Margot Robbie in 'Focus,' you'd better check out Wolf Of Wall Street. Lord have mercy....

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  14. She won me over, in my pants, setting with her legs spread in wolfs of wallstreet.

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  15. Yeah, he was in too many matches that he couldn't win, specifically the MitB for the vacant World title and the four-way that followed. He should have been in one on one matches beating Kane and someone else. It did all go to hell with his injury, but they weren't doing him any favors before that.

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  16. I dunno I disagree. It doesn't mean that they don't have to cast a wide net, I just wish that the product they put out treated it more seriously.

    Also no more authority figures.

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  17. Neither one of those relate to the Reigns push.

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  18. But what if that body of work includes #MeatyThighs

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  19. The thing is, being a 'top guy' in wrestling is a much, much more difficult skillset than being a top actor. The sheer volume of actors (in movies, TV, theatre or at your local dinner theatre) makes almost any of them easily replaceable, even the top talents. Even if you're Meryl Streep, there are probably 100 actresses who could've had her career except they didn't get their big break for one reason or another. Just think how many times you've seen a movie or TV show and an actor who heretofore hadn't impressed you is suddenly killing it in a major role. It's not that that actor suddenly became good overnight or had built up enough of a 'body of work,' it's just that this actor finally got a chance to show what he/she could do.

    In wrestling, it's a much shallower talent pool. Occasionally you will get a guy who surprises you and really takes to a bigger 'role' in a storyline or with better booking, be it either in interviews or improving in the ring. The large majority of the time, however, you can instantly tell when someone isn't cut out for a bigger role (i.e. Reigns) and it's a real chore.

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  20. It was easier in the old territory days, guys could build up reps and such but today, it's all about the "instant" thing. Which really doesn't make sense. Hell, Cena and HHH didn't happen overnight either or Rock or Austin but it really is the mentality today of "a guy can't make it almost instantly, he'll never make it" and that's crap.

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  21. You need to watch Wolf of Wall Street, Scott.

    Wowza!!!!

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  22. Sorry, but this is crap. Here's a list of potential Mount Rushmore's in pro wrestling:
    Hogan - he was pretty crappy before he hit AWA & got his big break in Rocky 3
    Austin - fired by EB, slummed it in ECW, was the Ringmaster
    Rock - crowd yelled "die rocky die", and not in a good way
    The problem is, no one can fail anymore. Everything is under the bright lights, and there are no second chances. It is a market reality that did not exist when there was more than one game in town.

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  23. A guy doesn't need years and years of great matches under their belt, but Reigns has had all of TWO matches on PPV. Two. And one of them had the fans chanting for the heel.

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  24. So, what you're saying is Roman Reigns needs to come out in a bikini?

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  25. I liked Wolf of Wall Street but I dunno, it felt like it went on too long. It was almost like the multiple endings in LOTR in a way. One of my favorite movies is Goodfellas and Wolf felt like Goodfellas of Wall Street. I still enjoyed it though, Leo and Jonah Hill were great in it though.

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  26. Right now Roman should be going on to beat Rusev for the U.S. Title then going on to defend it constantly beating anybody and everybody who comes at him.

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  27. Irrelevant.

    Margot Robie in garters is the only correct answer.

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  28. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogMarch 22, 2015 at 8:55 PM

    Goldberg, Brock, Angle are the rare exceptions to the "body of work" thing, in terms of wrestling character. Otherwise, yes, I think its preferable to have some good sample size before you give him the ball

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  29. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogMarch 22, 2015 at 8:56 PM

    Margot Robbie is top three

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  30. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogMarch 22, 2015 at 8:57 PM

    Um, I think he was referring to Margot's nude scenes

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  31. Those guys all exuded instant credibility, though. (Angle and Brock already objectively had it, of course.)

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  32. You just contradicted yourself with that last statement.

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  33. I'm in total agreement with dat Margot Robbie full frontal. Any chick who has both acting chops AND will show her cooter will have endless work in Hollywood.

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  34. Uh, Jennifer Lawrence came out of nowhere.


    Ditto with Gillian Anderson back in the day. She got into X-Files straight out of school and everything blew the fuck up (yeah it was TV, but the X-Files had CRAZY ratings).

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  35. Yeah but at least she had a sitcom gig and an Oscar nomination before she blew up with X-Men and Hunger Games. A lot of actors can't achieve either.

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  36. Wolf of Wall Street was like the drug paranoia scene at the end of Goodfellas ("You wanna see helicopters?"), but three hours. I mean that in the best possible way.

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  37. YankeesHoganTripleHFanMarch 22, 2015 at 9:12 PM

    George Clooney was also on Rosanne. He dated Jackie

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  38. Daniel O'ReillyMarch 22, 2015 at 9:14 PM

    Lawrence wasn't really out of nowhere. She was in several indy films and tv shows before she was even in Winter's Bone.

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  39. Goldberg had the US title and it was somewhat of a slow build

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  40. Book was much better.

    And it's a shame he is not in jail and poor

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  41. Is Margot Robbie the most generic Hollywood Hottie since Megan Fox? Admittedly, I haven't seen any of her work, but she has the complete plastic Barbie look.

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  42. I think the idea here is that Reigns is the equivalent of an actor who's serving as the second understudy for the lead in a community production of Grease, and being told "You're going to go to Hollywood to be Michael Corleone in The Godfather! You have the right look!"

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  43. Somewhere in Connecticut, Vince McMahon just had an unexplained orgasm.

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  44. It's all a matter of pushing a guy at the right time. Consider Ryback in the Fall of 2012. He was not good in the ring, but was catching on with the fans. Some folks actually wanted him to beat CM Punk, an internet darling, for the championship. Of course, timing wasn't right for Ryback, as Punk/Rock followed by Rock/Cena was set in stone.


    Roman Reigns would likely have been cheered to a title win if they went to him shortly after Bryan was injured last year and if they hadn't broken up the Shield. But he hasn't been on fire at all in the past few months. Now is not the right time for him.

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  45. No, not even close, unless I missed Sheamus and Del Rio main eventing WM within a year of getting a singles push.

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  46. "Robert Downey Jr was on SNL at one point."


    That's *lowest-ranked SNL cast member ever* Robert Downey Jr!

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  47. YEAH SHE DID

    I was channeling Terry Funk "MY EYE!! MY EYE!!!"

    OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

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  48. The latest in a long line, it seems.

    Hell, they cast the Wonder Waif on looks alone, and her being the weak link in BvS is going to doom that character to purgatory yet again.

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  49. There are plenty of actors, musicians, and wrestlers who were an immediate hit. Often there was a lack of longevity, but its not an aberration.

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  50. Its certainly fine. Why not? If it works, it works. Period. I think its worse to fail than not try. But that's me.

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  51. It's more like being in a great series of comedies that had two other really good actors and then suddenly being asked to star in a 200 million dollar action movie.


    WWE is Hollywood. The Shield were big stars. Roman Reigns was quite popular. But it was part of a team.

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  52. That's as nowhere as you can reasonably get.

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  53. IT'S NOT A PERFECT ANALOGY! GAHHHH!!!


    Excuse me...ahem...I would actually call Winter's Bone her "Blow up" moment, I'd just say that she managed to carry her success into other avenues.

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  54. Do...do you need a room?

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  55. Jennifer "31 episodes of the Bill Engvall Show" Lawrence?

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  56. Just NWA, AWA or UWF. Sometimes Japan.

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  57. Never heard of it.


    Was it big?


    Did it get awesome ratings?


    Obviously nobody walks onto a set of a major movie with a starring role with zero experience. But Jennifer Lawrence isn't a person that you saw in a bunch of bit parts or best friends or sidekicks and then suddenly became a giant movie star. Nor did she have any experience playing action-y roles in big dumb sci-fi blockbusters. She was a relatively unknown actress in some minor shit and then she became a huge star in a small time span. The comparison to Roman is as apt as we're going to get.


    If we're still making this retarded comparison of wrestling and acting and you want an example of the 'slow build' I'd point to Anna Kendrick. She was a child actress on Broadway. Broke into film with an Oscar nod and is typecast into the "Ingenue in Musicals". Not a huge star but she has a pedigree for bigger, more meaty roles now.

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  58. For everybody saying that Reigns hasn't been around long enough or hasn't been portrayed as important enough (those of you who think he sucks and the booking is bad, well you have a point) I'd say to you this. Would you accept Seth Rollins if he was defending or challenging in the main-event?



    Seth has been around just as long as Roman (indies don't count) and he's been booked just as importantly as Roman.

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  59. Your analogy is apt, but let's face it -- Reigns is the Phoebe to Ambrose and Rollins Ross and Rachel. An important part of the team, yeah, but not THE most important part of the team.

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  60. But here's the problem...


    This isn't Alien. This is Aliens 3 if Alien and Aliens had both sucked and shown that Sigourney was out of her depth.


    Since the Shield split, Reigns has shows time and time again that he just isn't ready for the "lead". He may be someday, but he's not now.


    Unfortunately, he's what we're getting. And nobody cares.


    It would be better if he was totally unlikable. As it is, nobody even cares enough to boo him, so turning him into a heel will be more difficult than it was with the Rock so long ago.

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  61. Look, I'm a huge nerd who really wasn't into pop culture growing up so I never watched Friends.


    Can you use characters from Firefly instead?


    And Roman was pretty damn important. Dean carried the promos and Rollins carried the matches but Reigns made them more than just a pair of sleazy heels. Roman Reigns made it believable for them to beat up the Undertaker and take on the roster 11 vs. 3 and almost win.


    The Seth role could've been Finn Balor (THAT WOULD'VE BEEN SO COOL) or Hideo Itami and Dean could've been played by Sami Callihan or Enzo Amore (okay...maybe not) but I'm trying to think of another guy who has Roman's mix of great presence (as long as he doesn't talk too much) and a killer finisher.


    There's plenty of great workers out there and there's plenty of good promos, but a guy who's instantly believable as a killer is hard to find.

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  62. Reigns was Jayne (without the song). Someone who was semi-important (and who had shades of being important) but wasn't quite as important as Mal and Zoe. (What, you thought you'd be scoring Firefly points off of me? I'm the geekiest geek that ever geeked!)


    The problem is that the Reigns role could have just as easily been filled by Ryback or Cesaro (if they didn't want to bring anyone in) or Michael Elgin or Brian Cage (if they did). Crap, outside of Ryback, the other 3 have the advantage of being VASTLY better wrestlers than Reigns.

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  63. I'd say Simon was more important than Zoe, but I digress.


    Cesaro as Roman would've been crazy. But I get the desire to bring in a band of new guys.


    I don't think Roman was the wrong decision. I just think his hernia really fucked up their plans as it got rid of 3 months of him tightening up his character and wrestling singles matches. So in response creative tried a bunch of desperate shit (baaaad comedy, way too many catchphrases, every face and heel talking him up) in an attempt to get him over.

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  64. Doctor FunkopolisMarch 23, 2015 at 5:03 AM

    Wait...Margot Robbie isn't Jamie Pressly 15 years ago?

    Also, Kate Hudson and Olvia Wilde are now mostly interchangeable.

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  65. Of course they would.

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  66. No it won't.

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  67. Indies do count, because the guys who were there are all better because of their experience. Sometimes you can just feel, that someone is better, even if you don't know him from somewhere else.

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  68. Well it's since at least 95, when they tried the same thing with Diesel.

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  69. Personally, for a three-hour movie, I thought it breezed right by.

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  70. No. I don't think there would be a backlash or apathy, but I don't think Seth Rollins is seen on that level yet.

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  71. The Love-Matic Grampa!March 23, 2015 at 8:54 AM

    I think the fans have picked up on how ambivalent WWE seems to be about Roman and are reacting accordingly. They look at him needing an eternity to beat Fandango in his first match back from injury, basically snoozing through the Rumble and losing to Big Show on RAW and figure "this guy here, he's not our guy". Because they know what a dominant star looks like and when the company is truly behind someone. He could have 10 matches under his belt or 1000, but if you make him look like an afterthought or a pretender, that's how he'll be perceived.

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  72. Did you see Winter's Bone? Lawrence is amazing in that film. She earned her spot.

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  73. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogMarch 23, 2015 at 10:51 AM

    Had you really heard of Kurt Angle in any meaningful way before his 1999 debut though? Or Brock Lesnar?

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  74. I totally agree about Simon/Zoe -- I was just trying to keep all of the players in the same context.


    Anyway, Reigns may have not been the wrong decision then (I'm not saying one way or another, because I still think there were better ways for them to go), but he's sure as hell the wrong decision NOW, and that's the problem.


    They've tried the Reigns experiment, and it's failed. Whether by bad luck from the injury, or fans just wanting something different, he's not getting over, so continuing to push him despite that can't be considered the "right" decision. They've had plenty of time to figure that out and correct it at this point.

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  75. I still don't know what scott means. :(

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  76. Awww I was looking forward to good debate too. Because I dont know who is right. But Zanatude wasnt having it.

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  77. I'd pay money to watch Roman Reigns sing "Smelly Cat" before I'd pay money to watch him wrestle.

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  78. if he was winning singles matches convincingly and giving great promos, I think he'd have a better shot at being accepted. Instead, you have a guy who can't beat Big Show and whose promos aren't strong. He's not super entertaining like Austin or The Rock, he doesn't have ring presence (like Angle, Goldberg, Brock), he's not a high end worker like Bryan or HBK. He's HHH 2.0. He's got some size, some look, and possible some charisma, but nothing is at the level yet that says "I am the new face of the company."

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  79. Yes, I was very familiar both. Then again, my uncle is a high school wrestling coach and the former University of Illinois wrestling coach, Mark Johnson, is a close family friend. So I'd actually seen Lesnar in person in college, and I specifically remember Johnson (who knows I'm a big pro wrestling fan) telling me that Lesnar would be WWF champ someday, that he was tailor-made for it and wasn't likely to continue an amateur career after college. So he kinda nailed that one.

    All that aside, whether one was familiar with their accolades, what's more important as it pertains to pro wrestling is that they were both blessed with that innate physical charisma. Plenty of guys have the real-life cred but no ability to portray it in a fake fight. Lesnar and Angle have it, obviously. And to me, while I was admittedly already familiar with them, it was obvious right away with both.

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  80. I read that in Dusty Rhodes' voice, for some reason.

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  81. I mean, sometimes you're stuck into something out of fidelity to logical storytelling (I know, I know, why start now?).


    They set up the pieces for the ROMAN EMPIRE and they have to see it through. Luckily they have an easy reset with Seth Rollins, who's more than ready to carry the company until SummerSlam where they can set up a new guy (or get Roman ready for really real).


    Or they have Brock retain, Reigns spear him and Rollins descend to be the first heel to win the World Title in the main-event of WrestleMania.

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  82. I'm not denying that at all.


    Winter's Bone is her "OUTTA NOWHERE" debut. She then managed to actually transition critical acclaim into commercial success. But all that happened in like...a year.

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  83. Even with J&J and the Authority's support?

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  84. But it's still being better that matters, not the experience.


    Perennial indy losers like Al Snow weren't more credible because they had 15 years of experience before getting semi-over.


    Some guys are immediately obvious as main-event talent. See Angle and the Rock.


    And I would say at their debut Reigns looked just as credible as Rollins and Ambrose. I never felt that any of them 'belonged' more than the other.

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  85. Then nobody is ready, because Rollins is the most credible week-to-week heel they have.


    He's the most credible guy that hasn't already won a world title. He's wrestled with the made-men and not been immediately massacred. He's gotten several angles that show the various aspects of his character (dirty traitor, ruthless planner, arrogant coward).


    Yes, you could give the belt to 4-time world champ Daniel Bryan, or 12-time world champ Randy Orton or 15-time world champ John Cena. But who the fuck does that help?

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  86. Oh, it's totally late to change it NOW. I just wished they realized the mess before the Rumble. It wasn't like the signs weren't there.

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  87. But the Rock was there!

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  88. If if if.
    This isn't if, and this isn't a random PPV (bit part)
    This the big stage. This IS Alien. Let's see if we can get a sequel.

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  89. Right, this is the big stage where someone who has proven they are incapable of being on the big stage is being put on the big stage.


    This is "I know that Al Pacino did great as Michael Corleone in the first Godfather, but for the second, we're going with Carrot Top. Coppola things his hair is funny, so we're going that direction."

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  90. So you first saw Margot Robbie for the first time in Focus? Watch the wolf of Wall Street. She's all sorts of hot and Nekkid in that plus the movie is amazing

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  91. Um....riiiight.

    Was I asleep when Reigns or Brock failed at Wrestlemania?

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  92. Only if you plan to sleep through WM 31...

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