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Great time to be a fan

HI Scott,

What a great time to be a fan don't you think? There is so much entertaining wrestling out there today and you don't even have to look very hard. Lucha Underground feels fresh, NJPW is a workrate paradise, and even NXT has become 'can't miss' wrestling fun, isolated from the rest of WWE's poor programming. Why is everyone so hung up on staying with the WWE's main shows for their fix? Even worse, why do people insist on complaining and generally being negative about it all when there are alternatives available which address all their complaints? The WWE will continue on its existing course regardless what people say, because those same people continue watching. 

To quote Lisa Simpson from that Halloween special when all the giant statues came to life: "Just don't look". 

I have been a fan of the WWE ever since I watched Jim Duggan and Harley Race brawl through the backstage area at the Slammy's in 1987. That's almost 30 years of investment in the product. But I simply don't enjoy watching the WWE any more, and I won't waste my energy being negative about things out of my control. What I do control is what I choose to watch, and I am very happy that the alternatives exist so that I can be entertained once more. Have you watched all the NJPW on AXS TV episodes? Okada vs. Tanahashi are tremendous matches with exciting commentary. What's not to enjoy with Finn Balor's ascent into super stardom? Great matches and an insane special entrance. How great is Prince Puma in Lucha Underground? Incredibly gifted wrestler, with an intriguing backstory that has still to play out. 

Wrestling is FUN again! 

​That may be, but for lots of people WWE is the only option.  I can tell you, for instance, that if I ever want to see a live show with people that I know, my only hope is to wait for WWE to visit the one or two times per decade they come here.  But absolutely, New Japan is awesome right now and NXT is a fun alternative, and I'm glad they exist and can provide people with something better than the junk we're getting on Monday nights right now.  ​






Comments

  1. Monday nights are just a tradition for me at this point. I'm lucky enough to have at least one, and sometimes two or three, friends who get together at my place every Monday to watch, so it's still fun. Obviously it would be more fun if it was good, but hate-watching and getting really baked is also enjoyable.
    Also, I think everyone made up their mind already on Lesnar/Reigns and won't change it despite the introduction of new evidence, but the sheer power of Heyman's promos are getting me into this match. I wouldn't say I'm necessarily looking forward to it, but I think the possibility for some crazy shit to happen still exists.
    To the emailer's point, though, I agree. I've kinda lost touch with Lucha Underground after the first 4-5 episodes but yes, there are a lot of options out there. Raw and Smackdown might be the only choice available for a lot of people, but I think that applies to a very low percentage of our demographic.

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  2. Did Devitt keep the finger gun when he jumped to NXT? Because nothing is cooler than finger guns!

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  3. I think thats the key people are just ingrained in watching it. They have been watching RAW since 93 or soon there after and after 20 years no matter how much they want to stop watching they can't. To the emailers point though its very weird to me how so many people can have so much hate for something but seemingly still watch it every week or even at all. For me entertainment is like restaurants. If the quality declines I'll go back until I catch on the quality has declined and then I'll give them a few more chances. At some point if the food isn't good I'm not going to enjoy it, its not going to fill me up so its time to look at other places to spend my time and money.

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  4. On the rare nights my friends don't come over, I'll skim through Raw on the DVR and only really stop on important, main-event stuff and people I actually like, and blow through it in 45 or so minutes at the most unless it's the rare good episode.


    I completely agree on the people who show up here to bitch about it despite repeated declarations that they no longer watch, or hate it. Not to say that isn't their prerogative or anything...but why the fuck do you want to do that to yourself?

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  5. Man, no matter how hard I try, I just can't get into the NJPW style of wrestling. Just because I'm a wrestling fan does not mean I'm all about the work rate. More than anything, I enjoy stories being told in the ring. I was raised by WWE style wrestling and I have seen how amazing it could be. People still cling on because when pro wrestling is good, there really is nothing better. The good moments are just so few but in a lot of ways, that's a lot like life. Not everyday is a home run but when they are, it feels like the waiting part was worth it.

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  6. WWE is still the most important promotion, no matter how much they've done to diminish their ownership of that title. I love the style of NXT, would probably greatly enjoy NJPW and Lucha Underground, but wrestling is by far at its best when WWE is hot and putting on great wrestling matches with great stories and great characters at the biggest events of the year in front of rabid fans, preferably with celebrities and confetti and other hoopla.

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  7. I agree I'm not all about workrate I'd rather have a hot story and a *** match anyday over two random guys I don't care about having a ***** classic. I think I might be alone in that regard however.

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  8. Depends on who you talk to some people on here declare the WWE in a downward spiral they won't escape from and will be dead within the decade. Also was the biggest fan I ever was in 96 and 97 when the WWE was putting on a shit product and I was watching WCW exclusively so I wouldn't say that wrestling is best when the WWE is doing great. If TNA or Lucha or ROH got hot and had some amazing storyline ala the nWo or whatever. Even if they weren't "number 1" ratings wise or appeal wise I would enjoy wrestling just as much as if it was the WWE doing it. So for me wrestling isn't more enjoyable when the WWE is putting on a great product. That being said I'm not much of a workrate guy and I'm not aware of a single hot storyline going on in any of the promotions in the United States. I'm not concerned with great wrestling if there isn't a great storyline that is a part of it in some way.

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  9. I still watch WWE but I rarely pay attention using it mostly as background noise while doing homework or housework. Same with TNA, but I do watch NJPW, ROH, Chikara, Lucha Underground and EVOLVE when I can devote myself to actually watching.

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  10. Misery loves company.

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  11. Nah, I'm the same. Granted, I'm not trying to say that NJPW's matches don't have a back story to it. I'm sure they do but their style is just a little too much work rate for me. Undertaker/HBK at WM 25 is my favorite match of all time, mainly because the awesome as fuck story they told in the ring. Some people shit on it because it's too old men stalling for periods of time. What do you expect? They aren't 20 anymore. It's part of the story.

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  12. I will also add that I've been reading the re-done version of "Fall Guys: The Barnums of Bounce" on Kindle, and it's a really fascinating book because even though it was written before the NWA even existed, the author is already complaining about the preponderance of stupid gimmicks like wrestling plumbers and how untalented lunks like Jim Londos are ruining the World title instead of real workers like Strangler Lewis. Also, fans are OUTRAGED that someone like Londos would dare to rip off fans at a local show by only doing a 20 minute match and then leaving to catch his train to the next show. It makes me want to refer to wrestlers soley as "Neckbenders" or "Bonecrushers" from here on, because he literally uses those terms hundreds of times. Needless to say, it's a really fun book to read from a modern perspective.

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  13. I'm happy for a story to be told by the match alone. If the wrestler's are good enough, they way they work the match can give you all the information you need.

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  14. A book before NWA existed? When was this book written? The 20's?

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  15. True, that's why Cena/Punk at RAW is my 2nd favorite match.

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  16. WWE is good stuff to vacuum to.

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  17. Without a WCW/NWA around (and there isn't anything within shouting distance of one right now), I think wrestling is definitely at its best with a strong WWE. A niche product is cool but things are most exciting when a huge promotion that can reach the mainstream (which, again, exclusively means WWE at this point) is putting on state-of-the-art great programming.

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  18. 1940, I think. It's mostly detailing the Gold Dust Trio of the late 20s and 30s.

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  19. So even before Gorgeous George and Wrestling's first Golden age?

    That is old!

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  20. Wow, this sounds really interesting

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  21. If you watched Wrestle Kingdom 9 and didn't see stories told In the ring, you're either willfully blind or an idiot.

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  22. Best time to be a fan was 1998. Wwe and wcw were going strong . Plus ecw was viable nothing is better than that time

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  23. Absolutely, and it benefits from building on callbacks to other matches. Which is how the best japanese stuff works too, by using holds and counters to deepen the narrative.

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  24. It's really good. Wrestling was supposed to be "real" at that point, but the book is written from a no-bullshit perspective detailing all the double-crosses and dirty tricks that promoters were pulling even back then.

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  25. The problem is many of these new promotions needs better TV deals. They need to come to me, I want to be your fan. I'm spending my time downloading and streaming indy shows from questionable websites. Everyone on here raved about NXT. This email is the equivalent of saying - You don't like NFL? Watch Arena League Football.

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  26. I always love how folks complain about Vince "ruining" the business but the fact is, the majority of the old-time promoters make Vince look like a candidate for sainthood in how they dealt with talent.

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  27. Totally totally agree with the E-mail. It really doesn't make a lot of sense in general.


    As for going to see a live event and not having any fans...buddy!! No one put a gun to your head and said "Live in the middle of nowhere, Canada" =)

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  28. Folks talk attitude era but to me, best fan period was 1987-1991. WWF was strong but Crockett was giving real hitting wrestling with Flair and the Horsemen, World Class was hanging in there before turning into USWA and still slews of other territories like Florida, Portland and more to give a wide option of stuff to enjoy.

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  29. Oh yeah, there's stories in there about how a guy would ask for a title match against Lewis and the Gold Dust Trio would lure him into their "training camp" and then just fuck him up and force him to do business the "right way". Crazy stuff.

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  30. I love Hornbaker's book on the NWA and how they talked a big game of it being the most respectable belt around, meaning a lot but then doing title changes for petty political reasons (Tommy Rich's one-week reign just being a reward for his promoter for example).

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  31. It IS a great time! For instance, it only took the hipster douchebags at the AVClub three weeks to FINARRY get offended cuz WWE is racist! "Wimmenz crazyz is offensive! Ehrmagerd Cena said Ho-Ski! Beat up foreignerz! Beta ninny alert! Sounds like someone needs to unfurl their Victorian era parasol and watch reruns of she's the sherriff!

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  32. Do people really complain about Vince screwing his employees over or more about Vince screwing the product up?

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  33. I still don't get the hype for Bullet Club.


    It seems just like Aces & Eights (another shitty NWO ripoff with a redneck biker twist). Since when did "badass" heel stables need to appeal exclusively to white trash NRA members and Sons of Anarchy fans?

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  34. I feel like the only fan in the world not in love with LU, and I love Morrison.

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  35. If you enjoyed Jim Duggan I can't take you serious

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  36. He was probably a child.

    At least I hope so

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  37. I think that the Bullet Club is supposed to be in on the joke; they're aware of how hokey it is as they're doing it. Cynical plays in today's market, and being openly cynical of ones' own gimmick even as one is performing gets over.


    I analogize it to the observation I heard made about Bad News Barrett a few days ago -- that nobody cared about the gimmick, with the gavel and the lift. Then the light flipped on at the Hall of Fame ceremony when he acted in-character and yet self-aware.

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  38. I hate emails like this. What is wrong with wanting the WWE to be better than they are? "Its ok that you suck, if it sucks accept it or find something different." I want the WWE to be good because that's what I have the most and easiest access to! Turn the argument to the NFL: Its ok that the Cowboys suck, cheer for another team. There are always the Broncos or the Patriots to cheer for. Who would buy that logic?


    Dougie's reply: Lol

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  39. I'm at the point where I'll have Raw on any Monday night that I'm home, and if it's shitty, it doesn't bother me and I'll keep puttering around the house while half-keeping an eye on it, but I'll sit up and pay attention to any segment that they manage to pull off well. If the entire show ends up being shitty, no big deal.


    I (like many here, I'd imagine), grew up on WWE, so at this point they're kinda like a sports team that I've followed my whole life, and thus I'll never "give up" on them. They're simply my default promotion. I also agree that I get invested in wrestling the most when it's WWE that's on fire and not another promotion, because it's what I'm used to.


    Having said all that, I completely agree with the e-mailer. Lots of good stuff out there, and the better the alternatives are, the easier it will be to slowly get away from the "WWE or bust" mindset.

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  40. "Wrestling is FUN again! "

    Does this point to a secret relationship b/w the BoD and Chikara?

    TUNE INTO GLOW TO FIND OUT!

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  41. Scott's reading a book written about gimmick from before the NWA existed?

    Unpossible.

    We all know "The Apex Abolitionist" "Honest" Abe Lincoln held a version of the NWA World Title.

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  42. That's not a great analogy. Cheering for a team in a real sport to win games is not at all the same thing as wanting an entertainment company to be more entertaining. I agree that there's nothing wrong with wanting the WWE to be better, we all want that. But there's nothing you can do about it- and really it's not at all the same as cheering for a sports franchise/program- and there are good alternatives readily available to most people. So I think the email has a very valid and correct point.

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  43. After,,,I knew what I wanted, I started talking to people about it. Most of people didn't take me too seriously. I didn't even know if my 'dream jOb" existed anywhere. Still, I made the decision to look for it. Then I met a man who worked at home, part-time and had done so for years. He told me how he did it and shared with me how to get started.,,,

    -----> www.opportunity4.com

    ✤✤✤✤✤✤✤✤

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  44. it comes down to how the feedback about the product is presented as well. If you have been following this board for a while you'll notice that the general attitude is terrible, and people are expecting, nay, hoping, that Reigns crash and burns, and that Wrestlemania fails as a direct result. Rarely are solutions or ideas provided to help improve the product. Generally negativity is prevalent, not a hope that the product improves.

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  45. I consider Nakamura/Ibushi from WK9 to be an amazing match for that very reason. The story is simple: Hungry up-and-coming youngster wants to prove himself against an ace. The match is incredible, the value of the Intercontinental championship is increased in the defence, the veteran wins, as he should, however the youngster shows tremendous fighting spirit hanging with the veteran, and almost beating him, wins respect from the veteran and the fans. Everybody gets over.

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  46. It's ok to want the WWE to be better, but it's odd to read people complain about the WWE week after week and keep being disappointed it's not better. And it's disheartening to read people saying wrestling is bad or wrestling sucks right now when almost everyone else beside the WWE is putting on their best product ever.

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  47. All of the above.


    See: C.M. Punk and the current IC title picture.

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  48. There's no way Dustin is that old, is he?

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  49. Here we see the divide between the hardcore fan and reality:

    TNA sucks, Lucha is an indy, NJPW is in another language with an unfamiliar style.

    Great fucking time to be a casual fan! Time to spend hours scouring Dailymotion!

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  50. I believe the deal with the Bullet Club is that they are the first gaijin faction in NJPW, and often interfere in their matches in a North American style, which is rare for Japan who are used to more straight up matches where the better man wins on any given night. Yeah, it's gimmicky, but it's working!

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  51. I saw that match and I got that from watching it. Nakamura is very special.

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  52. Probably willfully blind. Am I rite, Kyle?

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  53. Probably more of a reference to the author's first exposure to wrestling rather than a direct adoration of Hacksaw.

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  54. We do not condone the removal of the stupid. Just their neutering and spaying, to avoid passing it on to future generations.

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  55. To many, wrestling is about the big over the top spectacle, so no, if WWE sucks and there's no big number 2, it's a bad time to be a wrestling fan if you have to search out low budget promotions filmed in pitch black near empty arenas

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  56. I'll also say that the wrestling business *as a whole* will not improve until WWE does. When WWE gets hot again, it'll filter down to the other promotions through TV deals and such. If WWE goes down, everyone goes down

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  57. If the WWE goes down, you'll probably still have "low budget promotions filmed in pitch black near empty arenas".

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  58. By goes down, I didn't mean "down and out", just "down"

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  59. I believe we are seeing a surge in other promotions for the very reason that the WWE is down at the moment. No one will argue that the WWE doesn't have the best production values, but the reason that there are other promotions getting noticed is because eyes are turning away from the WWE due to the quality of the product after all the shiny entrances are over. Sure they will never compete with the WWE directly, but other promotions provide an alternative to the WWE.
    I think that the WWE themselves realize this and through NXT try to recapture the market that is shunning their primary programming. I'm sure that it's no accident that NXT is so different to RAW.

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  60. It fucking sucks to be a fan right now. I mean, yeah, thank God for the Internet. But 20 years ago, I had WCW, ECW, WWF, Lucha, SMW and great Indy stuff in New England that I could watch.

    Now, there's shit. I now live in DC and the only worthwhile show that ever comes to town is WWE and it blows.

    The only improvement is better access to Japan stuff I would trade New Japan for 1996 in a heartbeat. A monopoly sucks and it is killing pro wrestling. NXT is cute but it's just feeding the machine....and the machine is the problem.

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  61. "What's John Wilkes Booth doing in Ford's Theater?"

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  62. Opinion is just a matter of perspective. I think we're better off today than we were ten years ago when the WWE was the only game in town within easy reach.

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  63. Battle Kat LitterMarch 10, 2015 at 1:13 PM

    There was a time when TNA was a genuinely fun alternative. I was a regular viewer circa 2004-2006 and there was some decent stuff. It's borderline unwatchable now.

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  64. If this is a great time I would hate to see what a bad time is like.

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  65. Does ROH ever hit DC? It's really fun if you're ever up to going to a show. They do a great job with live events.

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  66. Well the author didn't it was "the best" time. Just "great".

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  67. a bot babbling insanity is the best answer possible to your post

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  68. I liked TNA around the time Christian was on top there. Joe, Angle, Christian, AJ being goofy it was fun. I also enjoyed it right before Hogan came in when it was Desmond Wolfe and The Pope and shit was getting good.

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  69. I disagree today we have NJPW for the guys that are into it, NXT, Chikara, PWG, Lucha Underground, plenty of niche stuff to enjoy if you want to. I agree 1996 was better but this isn't an argument if its the BEST time ever but merely just a good time and I think anyone who says this isn't a good time to be a fan is a bit negative. Beyond that just the fact that we have NJPW World, the Network and Youtube in general its easier to seek out wrestling today than at any other time in history and its no more inconvenient with tablets and phones to watch those shows than it is to watch your TV.

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  70. I agree totally. I was around in 1996 and the WWE wasn't the "hometown team" people were activley tuning into NItro and saying "fuck Vince". Or ECW or whatever else. For the people that were around in 1996 why was it ok to jump to another "team" back then but now its suddenly not ok? For me its entertainment, I'm not loyal to them because I can't seem them 8 times a year or 80 times a year I might see them once every six months if I'm lucky and one time that really matters. My loyalty for entertainment is for whoever is supplying me that entertainment. Pro Wrestling, the WWE, Better CAll Saul, Video Games. Wrestling isn't competing with wrestling for me its competing with my limited free time against other things that are more enjoyable these days.

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  71. Hacksaw has been perfectly fine pro wrasslin, with the flag waving, and the shouts to the crowd and the 2x4. Duggan was fun. I dug him to a certain degree.

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  72. Its so different than anything else out there thats what draws me to it. It seems to be so character oriented and so fresh in ring wise and even presentation wise that I can't help but dig it.

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  73. Actually this discussion is a throw-back to the puro snobs of the late 90's early 2000s.

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  74. “I think you can use some of those words on television, but what you cannot do is throw coffee.”
    -David Letterman to Andy Kaufman, 1982

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  75. As good as that was, the hype video for Nakamura/Nagata was almost better -- certainly more emotional, I thought.

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  76. I don't know man, is there really a surge? Maybe in areas of the BoD, but not out there in the world. TNA is obviously dead as it's ever been, and Sinclair won't back ROH any further than they're at now, which is almost nowhere. NJPW did it's PPV and it was a hit online, but they're not gonna be on a major TV station anytime soon. And Lucha Underground gets next to no ratings. People are enjoying these products to various degrees, but the landscape is bleak in terms of business.

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  77. It's shit right now but I'm optimistic for the future looking at NXT and knowing the guy responsible for that is taking over soon as Vince kicks the bucket

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  78. It's not really unwatchable -- it's just a company who has very little talent left, so they're making do while the ship finishes sinking.


    The sad part is, their booking isn't horrible right now. It isn't amazing, but it isn't horrible. With better people in the roles, they'd probably be able to pull something off.


    But pretty much the entire roster now feels like mid-carders. Maybe they'll build something back up, maybe they won't. Knowing TNA, if they do build something up, they'll screw the pooch again by deciding they're big enough to compete with WWE (and try it in the most ham-fisted way possible).


    TNA will always be the "what could have been" company, ruined by the owner's desire to take shortcuts to success.

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  79. "It's shit right now but I'm optimistic for the future looking at David Letterman and
    knowing the guy responsible for that is taking over soon as Johnny Carson kicks
    the bucket" - people back in 1991

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  80. TJ: I'm sold on Itomi now.
    "look in your dictionary for 'inevitable'."

    http://www.cagesideseats.com/2015/3/10/8182779/wwe-nxt-hideo-itami-kevin-owens-started-a-feud-on-twitter-better-than-anything-on-raw

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  81. We have enough evidence to be pessimistic on how the NXT talent will be used on the main roster. Big E Langston, Bo Dallas, Emma, The Ascension, Adam Rose, and Paige all took a major step back and lost any momentum they had gathered in NXT.

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  82. eh, I'm sure if this board was active in the mid 90's it could have over analyzed every segment of every Raw and nitpick to death too--part of it is just the nature of being an insta-pundit in the age of social media; WWE is a mix of good and bad stuff like always; it just doesn't have a Rock/Austin type to pull it higher.

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  83. The WWE doesn't have an Austin/Rock because it continues to choke out anyone who gets over organically without their approval. Oop, there I go being negative again.

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  84. Yeah but if people found out that Vince didn't let Big Show attend his kid's graduation or something they wouldn't give a shit as long as Daniel Bryan and CM Punk were on top of the company.

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  85. I disagree there isn't anyone on this roster that seems to have that type of charisma. The WWE doesn't have a Austin or rock because those are two of the three biggest names in the history of The WWE?

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  86. It's really petty reasoning two.

    I hate the camera angles. My friend who love LU wasn't sure what it was I was complaining about so I rewound and said pay attention. Every connecting move. Every single puncH, they are gonna change the angle on impact.

    Without fail through the whole do match it was more over produced then Dunn at his worst...and fuck that overused birds eye view camera. It can catch a cool shot once in a while but jesus do we have to cut to 15 times in an 8 minute match.

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  87. At least they mastered the art of steady cams. I can't stand that shaky WWE camera nonsense.

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  88. Roh can be streamed from their own website At least.

    That website unfortunately also functions like it's the mid 90's

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  89. It's not about the southern thing (you really think the Bucks are supposed to appeal to rednecks?)

    It's that they interfere in matches constantly.

    In Japan outside interference is a big deal, and the bullet club DOESNT CARE.

    They are evil rude Americans screwing proud Japenese. The bit below about being in on the joke is also true to varying extents. self awareness is 100% of the Bucks gimmick.

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  90. If? You never read r.s.p-w?

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  91. but that was a much smaller user base.

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  92. I'm in the same camp as the person who sent the email. I haven't watched raw or sd in over a month. I watch nxt on hulu, signed up for njpw world and I'm just getting into chikara. I'm not going to complain about wwe's booking. I've realized that it's not for me and moved on

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  93. I thought Ambrose was channelling some of that Austin manic energy for a bit, but that was curtailed rather quickly.

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  94. This is exactly my feelings. I have every Chikara show for like the last ten years so I'm catching up on that, I'm watching NXT, Lucha and watching old shit on the Network I have plenty of options to get my wrestling fix rather than watch through a bland corporate mass appeal entertainment representative of pro wrestling. I'm also not going to complain about it. That would be like me watching Real Houswives and complaining about it I don't have time for entertainment options that aren't entertaining ot me.

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  95. None of these (Well ok Paige and Emma but divas are a different breed) were really that great in NXT. None of these are anywhere near as good and well rounded as Zayn, Owens, Itami, Balor, and Neville.

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  96. Yeah hence why I said "when Vince kicks the bucket" - things can only improve when HHH is running things

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  97. Over my head as I'm from the UK but I'm sure it's 100% the same thing

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  98. Interesting point, if 1997 WWF was happening today, what would the reactions be? There was a lot of terrible stuff in 1997....but the good stuff was REALLY good, I think there's more rope if the main event level angles/stuff was compelling TV, like it was most of '97. Today, while there's on average better work overall, it's not as compelling TV, plus it seems like they are actively avoiding things that might work...yep it's frustrating.

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  99. Yea I agree he was developing something

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  100. How is the booking not horrible?

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  101. Geez. Hoping for a death is pretty dark.

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  102. It's easy to say that but wrestling is not as accessible as it once was. Sure NXT is awesome but it's still under the WWE umbrella and still treated as inferior to the main product. The rest are niche promotions that are only available via pay services or pay channels that some people aren't even able to get. Plus with the slow death of independent promotions it's hard to catch a live show. It's a horrible time to be a wrestling fan even if a few niche promotions are finally seeing the damage that was done over 10 years. TNA was the last promotion with any real chance in NA.

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  103. Battle Kat LitterMarch 10, 2015 at 3:53 PM

    The other one is Triple H, right?

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  104. absolutely. if a match of my team (football/soccer) is great, exciting, back-and-forth and "we" still win in the end? great. but if I had to choose between a boring game with "us" winning or an exciting one that's being lost, I'd much rather have the former.

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  105. NJPW does provide a pretty good spectacle though.

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  106. Well Leno ended up sucking but the late night talk show genre caught fire after that.

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  107. "seems" is an important word in this context. or would you have thought that "Rocky Maivia" had the charisma to become one of the most popular guys ever?

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  108. "HE'S SHOOTING!"

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  109. No, newsgroups really sucked. Made 411's comment section seem sane.

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  110. I know man. Perfectly illustrated by CM Punk's year long reign.

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  111. Well yeah kinda...he had...something. he elicited a strong emotional response, that other terrible and strongly pushed guys didn't. So while I wouldn't say I knew he was gonna be The Rock...I knew there was something.

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  112. Thought so too, but is kinda a one trick pony and the more promos he does the more exposed it becomes. Yeah, he's "crazy" which he expresses...the same way every time...which doesn't seem crazy. Seems programmed.

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  113. Yeah and I'd be more worried for the commenter if Vince were in his 40s. Dude is pretty old now and while healthy, pretty sure he can see the end of the tunnel.

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  114. Fast forward 2 years and you have Letterman and Conan in late night...10 years after that, Kimmel, Conan, Letterman and Stewart in late night...not seeing your point.

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  115. I miss your old recaps

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  116. Pretty much. If you're a hardcore fan, it may be a great time to be into wrestling, but if you're a hardcore fan, was there ever a bad time to be into wrestling? I can't remember a time when there weren't one or two promotions somewhere in the world doing something that had hardcore wrestling nerds creaming their boxers.

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  117. Luckily I tuned out those years, heard horror stories though.

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  118. WWF 1998-1999. Have at it. http://forums.delphiforums.com/nWWWo

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  119. Nobody likes you.

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  120. True Ambrose's crazy really isn't that crazy. 96 Pillman? That's crazy

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  121. There is so much excellent content available at the point of a finger that it all feels like sticking my face in front of a raging firehose.

    Having a bowl of your favorite ice cream at your disposal is heaven. Having a thousand tons is hell.

    I'm just burned out on everything.

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  122. I mean it was...for the first month. Then it stagnated.

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  123. And I wonder about the mentality of a person that thinks they can speak for everyone.

    Wait, I'm almost 100% sure that's a pathology.

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  124. Well...technically, as a wrestler, HHH is the biggest one ever. The guy is inheriting the WWE. There's really no bigger you can go in this business. That's not hyperbole.

    The Rock is...well, I can't say he's the biggest wrestler ever, the guy transcended the business. So kinda depends on your POV.

    Then there's the other line of thinking, the venture capitalist. Is the goal to sit at the table longest, or eat the most as fast as you can and leave? If its the former, you kinda gotta give it to Hogan. If its the latter...Brock? Austin? Punk? But 2 of those 3 aren't wrestlers.

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  125. Point is that everybody thought Letterman was going succeed Carson, but he didn't - at least not at NBC. Same thing could happen with HHH. Hell, as I think about it, he could be the "big star" to jump start another wrestling company if that were to happen.

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  126. How crazy can you get in the PG universe? Bray Wyatt is about as out there as you can be, and that's more horror crazy. This is what would have happened to Piper or Jake the Snake if they were in the WWE today.

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  127. To me,wrestling is about wrestlers wrestling in a wrestling ring. The amount of pyro doesn't change the match.

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  128. I can go to a wrestling show EVERY weekend if I want,driving 2 or less hours. Twice a month if I'm only willing to drive 1 hour. Once a month if im only willing to drive 20 minutes.
    Entire WWE WCW ECW back catalogue is 10 bucks.
    Chikara just upgraded their cameras and streaming to pro levels.
    Evolve,PWG,Shimmer are all easily available online.
    ROH has a weekly show that's online if you don't get the channel.

    Hell,KAIJU BIG BATTEL had FOUR PPVs in October!!!!! The monster guys! It made money!

    It's insanely easy to be a wrestling fan who doesn't watch raw. It's even easier to be a wrestling fan like me,who watches Raw casually and just goes online to see the workrate or strong style stuff raw doesn't show.

    It's like hearing "shake it off" by Taylor swift and deciding all metal ,rap,and folk sucks too.

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  129. ...what. the. Fuck. Are. You. Talking. About?

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  130. It was the best of times...it was the blurst of times!?

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  131. Battle Kat LitterMarch 11, 2015 at 4:19 AM

    Mating with the boss's daughter makes you the biggest wrestler ever?

    I was thinking more of popularity and how much money you made for the company

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  132. BEND THY KNEE PUNY HUMANPUSS.

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  133. BEND BOTH KNEE NOW. ACCEPT!

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  134. What's the difference, though, whether or not it's treated as being on par with the main show?

    Good wrestling, good storylines, good promos, good pacing... if it's an enjoyable product, why does it matter?

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  135. Because when they all get called up they'll be chewed up and spit out by their hack creative team.

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  136. Oh, I completely agree, but what's the point of saying "I'm not going to enjoy this person/product now, because they/it won't be good in a year or two"?

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  137. I'm not saying you can't enjoy it I was just pointing out that NXT isn't truly a separate brand and it's ultimately run by idiot overseers.

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  138. I was thinking it was about how much money YOU made and your longevity and impact on the business.

    And apparently yeah...mating with the daughter works really well. Its a short sighted, ignorant and fairly insulting to all people involved way of looking at it, but yeah end result is you won wrestling.

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  139. Battle Kat LitterMarch 11, 2015 at 6:23 PM

    I don't think many people mention Triple H in the same breath as Rock, Austin or Hogan.

    Ignorant? Harsh.

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  140. But accurate. You're implying that HHH magically got to marry Stephanie. Or you're a mark and thought the storyline was true.

    This is a guy who earned the trust and love and dedication of a woman. But that has little to do with running a multi billion dollar global business. See, he then earned the trust, personally, professionally, and as a business man of a fairly crafty guy (whatever you think of McMahon...the dude won life. Makes him just a bit... well, smart.) This fairly crafty guy passed on his own son to award a ridiculously high position and leave HHH as heir apparent.

    By saying HHH got to where he is by "mating" is insulting to the intelligence, experience and emotions of more than a few people. That's not just ignorant, that's arrogantly ignorant.

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  141. Battle Kat LitterMarch 12, 2015 at 3:20 AM

    Seriously - get over yourself. I'm not a fool. I'm a 35 year old married man with 2 children, a full time job, a mortgage - and a 25 year wrestling fan. I know fully well how love works, how relationships work, how success in your job works. My 'mating' comment was a joke, a flippant way to reference his relationship on a snarky wrestling blog/forum. Their situation is so much in the public domain that there was no need for me to elaborate - you knew exactly what I meant. My single and sole point was would he have been promoted to a position of such power and trust (no matter how astute, hard working and talented he was) if he did not marry into the family? We'll never know for sure - but I'd say we can all hazard an educated guess.

    Now before you take time to personally insult me again, please stop and take a look around at where you are. A snarky, smarky internet blog. If you want to play a game of self-righteousness, you're probably in the wrong place, but if not maybe realise that we're not always treating our posts like we're in the national finals of the debating society.

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  142. To be fair, you're right, it is a well spread theme...the "he married into it"...and often heard. So when I say its ignorant...I mean that. If you subscribe to that group, then you were one of a bunch that I called ignorant. If not, then I wasn't calling you ignorant. Besides people are more complex than just one idea/thought...you can and will have ignorant ideas. But it ain't the whole.

    And see, I don't think we can take an educated guess. All we have to work with is rumors, stories (from am industry that makes its money directly from rumors and stories) and supposition. The best we can say is that as he was on the booking committee pre-Steph then we can make a wise bet that he coulda been Patterson. But yeah the guy was always going to go places.

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