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Monday Nitro - October 11, 1999

Monday Nitro #209
Date: October 11, 1999
Location: Mississippi Coast Coliseum, Biloxi, Mississippi
Attendance: 9,000
Commentators: Bobby Heenan, Tony Schiavone

Reviewed by Tommy Hall

We've coming off a genuinely great wrestling match last week and something tells me that it's going to go downhill from here. The main event is Benoit/Hart teaming up against a team to be announced. Other than that, we might get to see more car hijinks between Sid and Goldberg in the parking lot. Let's get to it.


We open with an In Memory Of graphic for Gorilla Monsoon. That's quite the tribute considering he never wrestled there. Monsoon is still one of the fondest remembered names ever in wrestling and it's nice of them to do this.

Benoit and Hart arrive and are met by Luger and Elizabeth. The latter thinks we need immigration and it seems Luger will be one of their opponents tonight.

Sid gets out of a cab. Continuity!

We go to Tony and Bobby, who have some kind words about Monsoon. Heenan gives a very heartfelt tribute to his friend, saying that the pearly gates of Heaven will now be known as the Gorilla Position. He has to look down to hide his tears. That's a very touching tribute.

Malenko asks Saturn what happened last week. Saturn was there to stop Shane and attacked Mysterio in self defense but Malenko doesn't seem convinced.

Perry Saturn vs. Rey Mysterio Jr.

Saturn apologizes to Mysterio but again, Rey doesn't buy it. He armdrags Saturn down off a handshake and we start fast. A headscissors and dropkick send Saturn to the floor and Rey follows him out with a big flip dive. He does that as well as anyone not named Guerrera that I've ever seen. Back in and a hurricanrana is countered into a Liger Bomb from Saturn, another move that never gets old. We hit an armbar on Mysterio and go to a break. Saturn hits the springboard spinning legdrop and a release belly to belly suplex to send Rey flying.

Mysterio avoids a charge in the corner and hits the Bronco Buster but walks into a reverse powerbomb to put him back down again. A legdrop misses though and Mysterio springboards right onto Saturn's shoulders but he gets out of the Death Valley Driver. Back up again and they crotch each other trying simultaneous dropkicks. That's quite a painful looking spot actually. Saturn gets up first and goes all the way to the top but Rey pops up and hits a huge super hurricanrana. Cue Douglas to attempt some interference but Malenko cuts him off. This brings out Kidman for protection but he hits Saturn, drawing the DQ.

Rating: C. This wasn't bad but and I could have gone for more of it. Saturn may not have been a top star or anything, but he was capable of having an entertaining match with the right opponent. Mysterio certainly fits the bill too as he was busting out the high flying stuff. Unfortunately, none of these guys have anything to fight over because Benoit is suddenly in the main event scene (and it's about time) but the US Title is way out of reach, Disco Inferno is Cruiserweight Champion, and the Tag Team Titles, which would fit this feud well, are still being defended against the First Family. The action is there, but the priorities aren't.

Kidman wants a tag match later tonight, because setting it up for next week would just be lunacy.

Video on Meng. He's a monster you know.

Arn Anderson and Ric Flair are watching the video with cans of Surge next to them and Anderson brushing his teeth. They declare Meng the real deal and that's it. As usual, this was random and served no bearing on the show otherwise.

Cruiserweight Title: Disco Inferno vs. Kaz Hayashi

Disco, now wanting to be known as D.I., is defending. Kaz takes him down with a flying headscissors so Disco comes back with right hands. Those just earn him another headscissors and a dropkick as they're actually setting up a simple premise already. The champ bails to the floor but takes a suicide dive. Somehow, his hair is still immaculate.

Back in and Disco hits a good running clothesline (wow he can still his arm out AND has perfect hair) followed by the middle rope forearm and neckbreaker for two. Four moves of gloom maybe? A sunset flip doesn't get Kaz anywhere as Disco rakes the eyes and plants him with a DDT. They head outside for nothing so Disco misses another clothesline and gets caught in a hurricanrana. Kaz counters a powerbomb into a sunset flip but walks into the Chartbuster to retain the title.

Rating: D+. This is similar to the old days of the NWA World Junior Heavyweight Championship. Back at Starrcade 1984, the title was defended between two guys very similar to Disco: people who may have been under the weight limit but who wrestled like any average heavyweight. There's no reason to have a Cruiserweight division if the wrestlers aren't doing anything out of the ordinary. Kaz did some high flying but it's nowhere near enough to save a match like this.

Meng vs. Konnan

Konnan does his catchphrases and even a monster knows how stupid they sound. He kicks Konnan down and no sells a faceplant (good stereotype) before trying an early Death Grip. Instead he nails Konnan in the back of the head and chokes away in the corner as this is full squash mode. Meng no sells some clotheslines but actually does sell a bulldog. That earns him another superkick and a lot of yelling. Konnan tries a sunset flip out of the corner and gets caught in the Death Grip for the win.

Rating: D. I dig Meng doing his monster stuff but it's similar to Scott Norton: you can only set this stuff up so many times before the effect wears off, especially if Goldberg is going to be the one beating him later on. Total squash here though and it's nice to see Konnan getting shut up for a change.

Berlyn and the bodyguard jump Brad Armstrong but Brad steals Berlyn's cane and fights back. My goodness just let them fight tonight and get it over with already.

Hall and Nash come to their seats again and say they're not coming back. After wishing Dusty Rhodes a happy birthday, they'll be back in July 2012 when he's the right age for a WCW main event. Nash co-main evented a WWE show in December 2011 and was in the 2014 Royal Rumble, so somehow this isn't too far off from the truth.

Goldberg vs. Horace Hogan

Sid stares Goldberg down during the entrance but Goldberg doesn't do anything. Did anyone check the parking lot though??? One thing I've always wondered: why did someone as tough as Goldberg need a police escort? Shouldn't that be a heel thing? Horace actually comes out second here for some reason. Heenan criticizes the term “uncrowned champion”, despite referring to Andre as that back in the day. Goldberg shoves Horace down with ease and hits the gorilla press powerslam.

An AA into a cross armbreaker has Horace in trouble but he makes the ropes. Did Goldberg ever win a match with that hold? They head outside with Goldberg being sent into the steps. Tony: “That could have knocked him out!” Heenan: “It could have broke the steps!” Horace gets two off a top rope splash but it's spear and Jackhammer for the fast pin to complete the squash.

Gene brings out Hogan for a talk. Apparently the internet isn't happy with Hogan getting another title shot but the internet makes Hogan sick. Red and Yellow will be running wild at Halloween Havoc. Yes and the ratings will be running through the floor.

Sting vs. Hogan video.

Nitro Girls.

Torrie wipes lipstick off Kidman's face right in front of David Flair. Torrie: “Go talk to your dad or something.”

Brian Knobbs vs. Stevie Ray

Everyone, including the seconds, have weapons here. Knobbs kicks Stevie in the ribs to start but misses an early middle rope trashcan splash. A big chair shot to the head knocks Knobbs silly but Stevie would rather kick a trashcan on his head than cover him. Another kick to the head puts Brian outside but Morrus gets in some shots to take over. Thanks a lot Booker.

Back in and Knobbs hits his splash for two but Stevie hits him low to block the Pit Stop. Then Stevie and Knobbs do the Charleston and debate French literature. For all I know that's what happens as the camera stays on Hall and Nash for a good bit. Booker and Morrus get in a fight at ringside as Stevie kicks a trashcan into Knobbs' face for two. Jimmy Hart sneaks in a trashcan shot of his own (with as much impact as you would expect) to give Knobbs the pin.

Rating: D-. Jimmy Hart just knocked a Tag Team Champion silly to give Brian Knobbs a pin, furthering the feud before Knobbs and Morrus get a pay per view title shot in less than two weeks. There comes a point where there's nothing left to do and WCW is reaching that point. What are you supposed to do when this is the kind of nonsense you have to deal with?

We look at the Revolution's issues from last week.

Here's Shane Douglas to address his issues with the team. Shane calls out the rest of the group to air their dirty laundry. He blames Malenko for Saturn not getting a pin earlier tonight and wants to know why Benoit is teaming with Hart tonight. Benoit: “If there was no Hart Family, there would be no Crippler, and if there were no Crippler, there would be no Revolution.” PREACH IT BROTHER!

He throws his Revolution shirt at Douglas and leaves. Saturn goes off on Douglas for setting up a tag match when Shane isn't cleared to wrestle. Malenko steps in and agrees to team with him tonight and says they'll get the Revolution back where it should be. Shane is left alone and hopefully is thrown off the team for good, as he never should have been a part of it in the first place.

Brad Armstrong vs. La Parka

La Parka does the Thinking Man pose on his chair. The mileage he's gotten out of that one simple idea is incredible. He spends too much time dancing though and eats a clothesline as Armstrong starts fast. The referee stops Brad in the corner though and La Parka gets in some cheap shots to take over.

A powerslam gets two on Brad and the masked man mostly hits a top rope flip dive for two. Armstrong comes back with right hands but here's Berlyn. The referee gets bumped and the bodyguard lays out La Parka with a chair. The distraction lets Berlyn hit his bad neckbreaker on Armstrong, but Brad on top of La Parka for the pin.

Rating: D. STOP PUSHING THIS STUPID FEUD! Good freaking grief this thing is getting more time than Goldberg vs. Sid and no one cares. It's such a lame feud between a lame character and a guy who really doesn't deserve a push like this at this point. You couldn't have Eddie or someone like that beat up Berlyn, just to give him something interesting to do?

Curt Hennig is talking to Torrie when David comes up. Hennig beats him down for fun. Again, more stuff that could be used on more important people.

Norman Smiley vs. Berlyn

Norman promises to get jiggy with it. Somehow that line works. Berlyn throws him down with a hiptoss to start as the USA chants begin, presumably in support of the British wrestler. Eh no one ever said Mississippi was brilliant. Norman speeds things up with a hiptoss of his own and some clotheslines, sending Berlyn to the ropes to hide. Unfortunately it doesn't send him to the unemployment line where he belongs, but it's almost impossible to get fired from this company.

A belly to back suplex plants Smiley but Berlyn does the “I'm diving into your boot on purpose and there's nothing else I could possibly be doing up here” spot. The wind up slam plants Berlyn twice in a row and it's time to dance. You would think Berlyn would like that spot but instead he hits a running knee to the chest and a neckbreaker for the pin.

Rating: D. Berlyn isn't very good and it's becoming more and more obvious every single week. I have no idea why they couldn't just leave him as the dancing heel, but I'd assume it's because WCW doesn't know how to do something as simple as not screw up a simple character. Smiley continues to be WAY too good for the role he's in.

Here's Ric Flair with something to say. He'll be facing DDP at Halloween Havoc but he wants to talk about “Mr. Perfect.....Curt Hennig.” A challenge is issued for tonight, but as for Page, maybe Kimberly would rather try the FOURTEEN TIME FOURTEEN TIME FOURTEEN TIME champ. Another week, another big enough match set up before it has the time to build properly.

Dean Malenko/Perry Saturn vs. Kidman/Rey Mysterio Jr.

Unfortunately Shane is at ringside. Malenko and Kidman get things going and head to the mat with Malenko taking over. Dean throws him down and nails a nice dropkick, followed by a leg lariat to send him outside. Now the drama begins as Douglas goes after Kidman but Malenko makes the save. Instead Dean tags Saturn in for a belly to belly, sending Kidman right back to the floor. Douglas and Malenko argue over attacking Kidman again, but Saturn uses the distraction to send Kidman into the steps as we take a break.

Rey comes in but charges into a powerbomb with Saturn adding a top rope cross body for something like a Doomsday Device. Malenko isn't cool with Saturn coming in off the blind tag though and breaks up the cover.. Mysterio moonsaults onto Saturn's shoulder and sends him into the buckle, setting up the Bronco Buster but Saturn raises his boot for the stop. Incredibly fast pace so far. A belly to belly gets two for Saturn and it's back to Malenko.

Rey's sunset flip goes nowhere and Dean takes his head off with a clothesline. Saturn tags himself back in and Dean isn't cool with that, allowing Rey to grab a rollup for two. Dean yells so Saturn tags him back in on the chest. A big belly to back gets two for Malenko and it's back to Saturn for some arrogant walking around in between offense. Saturn hits a spinning springboard forearm to the head for two more before nailing Kidman on the apron.

The always awesome gutbuster from Malenko sets up the Cloverleaf but Saturn tags himself in while the hold is on. Saturn's top rope elbow scores but Malenko tags himself back in just like Saturn did. A superplex plants Rey but Dean is so shaken up that he has to tag out. Kidman comes back in and cleans house, including throwing Rey into the air for a hurricanrana on Saturn. Everything breaks down and Shane breaks up the Shooting Star, throwing Saturn the chain in the process. A big knockout shot is enough to pin Kidman.

Rating: B-. Fun match with a lot of story development in it, but that doesn't mean the story development is interesting. I'm really not a fan of having the Revolution implode and fight each other, because it's going right back to the same idea that we've done for years now without anyone getting up the ladder. Benoit is to an extent, but everyone else is just stuck in the midcard while Sid powerbombs people and Rick Steiner exists for reasons that aren't exactly clear.

Malenko puts the Revolution shirt on, sees the replay of the ending, and takes the shirt back off. He promises to be his own revolution from now on.

US Title: Sid Vicious vs. Van Hammer

Sid is defending if that wasn't really clear. He stomps Hammer in the corner and stares at the fans for chanting Goldberg. Granted he stares blankly most of the time so you can't really tell if he's upset or not. Hammer trips him down and hits what looked like a low blow. That goes nowhere so Sid chokes away in the corner and slowly kicks again. We get a ref bump so Rick Steiner can come down for a cheap shot on Hammer, setting up a double powerbomb for the pin.

Rating: F. Van Hammer vs. Sid needs a ref bump??? I'm not the biggest Goldberg fan in the world but suggesting he and Sid are the same level is ridiculous. Sid is a fun character but as soon as that bell rings, all the fun goes away and it becomes clear that he should have retired about seven years ago.

Mike Tenay joins the commentary booth to talk about Bret vs. Benoit from last week.

Phantom of the Opera Dustin Rhodes puts his hand on the kid's window and the kid's eyes turn black. Of course they do.

Curt Hennig vs. Ric Flair

Remember when these two had a great match on Raw six and a half years ago? Well now Virgil is in Hennig's corner and is named Curly Bill. Hennig dances around to start, earning him a slap in the face and a loud WOO. That's very violent behavior reminiscent of a father wanting to avenge his son, who tried to destroy his life earlier in the year but that's beside the point. More chops have Curt in trouble and they head outside. Hennig gets in some shots of his own and scores with a suplex back inside as we take a break.

Back with Flair chopping Curly on the floor. Jack Brisco, Harley Race, Dusty Rhodes, Sting, and CURLY! Hennig chops to take over and slams Flair off the top, but Ric casually takes out the knee and puts on the Figure Four. Hennig is right next to the ropes though so Flair pokes him in the eye and nails a belly to back suplex. Both guys are dazed but it's Hennig up first and going after Flair's knee. That goes nowhere though and they trade chops in the corner again with Hennig on the losing end.

Ric snaps Hennig's neck across the top rope and goes after CURLY again, allowing Hennig to roll him up for two. That doesn't work so Hennig puts his feet on the ropes for two more. Curly even holds Hennig's feet for some more near falls. Somehow the referee, who is two feet away from Curly, sees NONE OF THIS. David Flair comes out to take out Curly (for the love of all things good and holy, do not let them have a match), allowing Ric to roll Hennig up for the pin with his feet on the ropes.

Rating: C-. Not a terrible match but you expect more out of these two. Thankfully the Rednecks are becoming Curt and Pals instead of a normal stable, which makes their matches a lot easier to sit through. The Flairs being back together is a bit annoying but I'm much happier with the regular Ric instead of the insane boss.

Total Package/Rick Steiner vs. Chris Benoit/Bret Hart

Remember when Luger came back to save Sting from the Steiners and a big tag match was teased? Even better, remember their classic at the first SuperBrawl? It's a brawl to start as I'm assuming Benoit vs. Steiner for the TV Title is happening at the pay per view. Hart beats up Luger on the floor and chases Liz off before sending Lex into the post. Rick has Benoit in trouble back in the ring and cranks on an armbar.

Bret rams Luger into the apron as Benoit grabs the Crossface on Rick, only to have Lex dive in for the save. Naturally Steiner no sells the pain from the hold and suplexes Benoit, but Bret clotheslines both Americans down to take over. Luger puts Bret in a full nelson so Steiner can hammer away but Benoit makes a save. The Swan Dive connects on Steiner but Sid comes in for the DQ.

Rating: D. Oh yeah Russo is starting to take over. This was your standard big brawl main event disguised as a match that didn't even get four minutes from bell to bell. This match also exposes a major problem in WCW: the main event heels are horrible. You have Steiner and Sid who can't do anything and Luger who can only do really basic power stuff, combined with Sting who doesn't act like a heel whatsoever. Who am I supposed to boo without falling asleep?

Luger racks Bret but Goldberg comes out for the save. Sid tells Goldberg he can't touch him or the match is off, so Goldberg spears him anyway to end the show.

Overall Rating: D+. You can really taste the Russo effect, but it's not in full force yet. This is that weird transition stage where he's trying to breathe life into the stale angles WCW had going before he arrived and it makes for a very awkward mix. There's some fresh blood in the stories, but the stories themselves are still pretty uninteresting. The wrestling is also getting worse, which is another sign of the age of Vinny Roo. Things will at least get more interesting once we hit the full Russo effect, but until then we're in for some dull stuff.


Remember to check out my website at kbwrestlingreviews.com and head over to my Amazon author page with wrestling books for under $4 at:

http://www.amazon.com/Thomas-Hall/e/B00E6282W6

Comments

  1. Bret just withered and died in WCW. Just withered and died.

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  2. As much as he talks of always thinking WCW wouldn't be right for Bret, it's obvious even Vince can't believe they dropped the ball so badly with him.

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  3. Dustin Rhodes in white makeup, black outfit and a possible child molestor. Only in 1999 WCW could this actually have been considered a great way to put a guy over.

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  4. It's amazing how bad he looked after only being off television for a maybe a year.

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  5. Adam "Colorado" CurryMarch 4, 2015 at 1:25 PM

    And really he was doing the same thing as Diamond Sudd minus the Scarface bit.

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  6. Came back, squashed Miz in a minute, then handed his mask to Stephanie. I believe the next week he was Corporate Kane.

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  7. I recall hearing that. Not sure if it's true, but it could be.

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  8. Fake Razor and Diesel both disappeared after Royal Rumble '97, along with Jake Roberts and all the AAA goofs.

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  9. That's a really long time for that kind of a gimmick/angle.

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  10. I believe they were at Final Four and other PPVs. I don't think that's right.

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  11. Adam "Colorado" CurryMarch 4, 2015 at 1:41 PM

    Wasn't their supposed to be a fake Double J too, but it got shelved for Road Dogg as the one that actually song the song?

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  12. They should have run with a long program where the Wyatts get revealed as agents of the Authority. Brainwashing Kane into becoming 'Corporate,' keeping Daniel Bryan away from the title in the fall/winer of 2013, costing John Cena the title and helping their golden boy Orton retain, targeting the Shield right around the time the Authority was losing their hold on them, etc. They were doing the Authority's bidding that entire 6 month stretch and nobody noticed. Would have been brilliant.

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  13. That was the plan to further their angle in 1995. They just returned to it in 1996 to bury Jarrett while he was in WCW, constantly showing clips of him getting his ass kicked and calling him a phony. Another gimmick that was total death. "Double J" Jesse Jammes. Alternative spellings available.

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  14. I might be crazy but I thought the gimmicks were fun and I enjoyed it. Just was different and silly, they didn't hand them world titles or anything.

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  15. I wanted Undertaker to be revealed as the man behind the Wyatts. They used to say stuff like "the devil" made them do it and other things implying they were working for somebody. It would've made sense that an evil (again) Taker sent the Wyatts after his brother, after CM Punk, after The Shield and everyone else who messed with him.

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  16. Oh god I forgot he did that stupid talking behind the camera bit. You know that gimmick COULD actually be used in this day and age to good effect, but only with a voice that is not distinguished AND a payoff that is worthwhile.

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  17. It didn't help wwe's dwindling image with the real deal (and killer ratings) on tnt

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  18. Oh geez, Frasier's dad making Austin Powers references.

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  19. Jonathan MeisnerMarch 4, 2015 at 2:02 PM

    Daphne. Bangable or not bangable? To me, she's kinda cute and the accent is fun, but I'd probably need a couple of drinks first.

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  20. Totally bangable.


    The fact that she's tall on top of having an accent does it for me.

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  21. Jonathan MeisnerMarch 4, 2015 at 2:06 PM

    I like tall girls, but I also have no problem with a girl who's 5'2"

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  22. The Silverdome is no longer a dome.

    But it would have been cool if Vince had bought it for $500,000 back in the day and turned it into the annual "Mecca" for Wrestlemania. It could have also served as a physical WWE Hall of Fame for the other 364 days in the year.

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  23. Can't wait for the review of the next Nitro, and the three months that follow.


    "Hey Russo, did I do a good job for you?"

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  24. Adam "Colorado" CurryMarch 4, 2015 at 2:37 PM

    I think the Colosseum is about the age, or either way they're both too old. The Rose Bowl is a lot bigger though.

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  25. Adam "Colorado" CurryMarch 4, 2015 at 2:41 PM

    Bristol Motor Speedway, holds 160,000 before you add in floor seats.

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  26. kbwrestlingreviewsMarch 4, 2015 at 2:41 PM

    I know that's his first show in complete control but you can see elements of him here. They announced his hiring last week.

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  27. kbwrestlingreviewsMarch 4, 2015 at 2:42 PM

    And without a laptop.

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  28. If business deteriorates to the point that WWE can no longer sell out stadiums for Wrestlemania, they can always return to Madison Square Garden, Staples Center, the new Boston Garden, Allstate Arena, etc. and market it as a "return to tradition."

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  29. As we've seen with Curtis Axel in the last few weeks, nothing can get a guy over quicker than an actually clever comedy gimmick.

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  30. Agreed. Reigns/Brock as the opener catches the crowd offguard and creates a bit of a 'holy shit' unpredictability vibe, so it should lessen any negative crowd response a bit...though only a bit, since I guess the counter-argument is that you're getting the fans when they're at their hottest.

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  31. That ice storm shut the entire metro area down Tuesday thru Saturday morning. Given the ridiculous transportation logistics BEFORE the storm hit, you couldn't have had a bigger fiasco for Super Bowl week that didn't involve a terrorist act.

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  32. I actually see the point of the original question...obviously there are lots of stadiums but not lots of stadiums in cities that are going to bid for Mania and be a legitimate destination for a weekend long event. There are tons of college football stadiums in the country but they aren't going to host a Wrestlemania.


    The next obvious ones to me are Philly and Tampa. Orlando REALLY wants another one but I could see WWE staying away for awhile. I'm also surprised they haven't been to Toronto again yet, but I think I remember Meltzer saying they don't want to run big shows in Canada anymore for whatever reason.


    Other places I can see in the next decade...
    1. A new NFL stadium in LA (if it is ever built) is a lock.
    2. The new Vikings stadium or Lucas Oil are possibilities, as someone else mentioned.
    3. St. Louis
    4. Chicago (if Philly isn't a disaster). I wouldn't do it here or Philly cause of weather but they did New York so who knows.
    5. San Diego (if the LA stadium never happens and the Chargers build a new stadium.)


    Also there's no reason why they can't start returning to Phoenix, Miami, Atlanta, Houston, New Orleans, etc.

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  33. I'm probably the only one but I really didn't mind that whole gimmick. I think it could've worked somehow.

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  34. They went to Memphis for awhile, with one of them (I forget who) even turning babyface and feuding with the other, and doing a Dustin and burying the gimmick. I think the goal was to bring them back repackaged, but of course only one man got that honor.

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  35. I remember them talking about it on live wire actually

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  36. Adam "Colorado" CurryMarch 4, 2015 at 2:55 PM

    That's probably exactly what will happen, basically a repeat of Rock/Cena II.

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  37. As a man is being hanged on national PPV: IS THIS SYMBOLIC?? IS THIS A SYMBOL OF WHAT UNDERTAKER PLANS FOR THE CORPORATION?

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  38. Mid-90's Jane Leeves was a smokeshow. That episode when she's going waltzing with Niles and wears that red dress? Get outta town.

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  39. Ah yes, Scott Hall and Jacques Rougeau, both forever consigned to Rumble undercards.

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  40. Some people might say all of wrestling can be summed up as grown men acting like children.

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  41. They need one in Wembley in the UK - 90,000 capacity. You'd have the rowdiest Mania crowd of all time

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  42. Brendan McDonaldMarch 4, 2015 at 3:23 PM

    No, not at all. I loved THE IDEA of the angle. But they completely botched it from the second that episode of Raw went off the air.


    The way they were positioning it in that promo was that JR felt scorned by WWF and Vince in particular, so as head of talent relations he acted as a saboteur, shipping out WWF's biggest stars. And in the meantime, he felt he deserved credit for anyone he brought to the WWF who found success. Go back and watch the Marc Mero IC title victory from earlier in that show. He's thanking fans and Sable, and JR kind of pesters him to get some thanks as well. Mero just acts a little confused. I really liked this whole idea - a disgruntled employee trying to embarrass WWF and make himself look good. JR's quote later in the promo was great - "Do you think it's an accident that all these guys have been coming and going?" - but they never went anywhere with the concept.


    Instead the whole thing got completely muddled as they tried to make Fake Diesel and Fake Razor into actual competitors challenging for tag titles and everything, and JR was inexplicably kept in the broadcast booth to just be kind of a contrarian voice to Vince and ultimately abandon the whole persona he created in that promo.

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  43. You'll be waiting a while.

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  44. Nothing is better than Vince not giving a fuck on commentary as all these AAA luchadors come out. He's just waiting for JR to feed him their names and he can barely pronounce them correctly.

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  45. Nope, I was totally on board. It didn't work out in the execution, but the idea was a decent one.

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  46. Problem there is they don't own the CM Punk name, right?

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  47. I like theorizing how all the characters Glen Jacobs has played over the years tie into Kane. Fake Diesel is usually the one that trips me up.

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  48. I always liked the new Diesel better than the original, but preferred the original Razor to the Bogner version.
    I never liked Kevin Nash much at all.

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  49. Hated it even as a kid. I loved and was intrigued by the JR heel promo, but once they revealed what they had planned I was off board. I never took those two seriously at all.

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  50. Well nobody is perfect.

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  51. He was a Diesel fan.

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  52. The Silverdome would be hilarious when 5000 rats go after Hogan's corpse 2 minutes into the show.

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  53. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogMarch 4, 2015 at 3:38 PM

    Only in pro wrestling would you see grown men sue each other over "intellectual property" that is blatantly ripped off from other media. "Razor Ramon" is Scott Hall doing a ridiculous Scarface voice and wearing razorblades on his tights; it was the wrestler who got over. You have a guy blatantly dressed as the Crow and WCW doesn't get sued, but Vince thought he could win a suit like this?

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  54. "It just showed how out of touch Vince was 1996."

    As opposed to..?

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  55. Is DeMott friends with HHH, or something? It doesn't make sense why they seem to be protecting him, he seems pretty expendable to me, it's like there isn't a hundred other wrestlers they could plug in there and get the same, or maybe even better, results. I don't know why WWE would want to take all the heat from this and not just fire the guy.

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  56. Whoops wrong thread

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  57. The Love-Matic Grampa!March 4, 2015 at 3:48 PM

    Yeah, there was real potential there. Imagine a fake Hogan, Savage, Warrior, etc. joining the group and running around wrecking havoc with JR calling the shots. Long term, I don't know about JR as the lead villain, but it would have been fascinating to watch for a few months.

    Instead, we were expected to accept these two as the genuine article. Uh, no.

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  58. I'm late to the game, what's this mayo thing all about?

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  59. Hands down, one of the dumbest things I've seen them do. I hate when they recast roles in movies, it's even worse when they do it in wrestling, especially with roles as prominent in Razor Ramon and Diesel (Sin Cara doesn't count obviously, since he's underneath a mask.)

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  60. If Russo wouldn't have joined WCW, I wonder how Halloween Havoc would have went down.

    I still think they should have went with Sting vs. Goldberg and Hogan vs. Bret Hart as the top two matches at Starrcade

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  61. Wrestling companys owning a gimmick or a name is just the biggest bullshit ever, if you think about it. Could you imagine Ric Flair coming to WWF in 91 with a different name and a new gimmick, only because maybe NWA/WCW could have owned the Gimmick? Or what if WWF had owned the Hulk Hogan Gimmick and what would WCW have done with him?

    I mean, normally every wrestling company should profit from getting a wrestler with a well known name and such. Back before 2001 wrestler went from company to company and always kept their names.

    Bubba Ray Dudley went to TNA and couldn't use his name which he used long before he went to WWF? Come on! It's soooooooooooo stupid and should be forbidden!

    All wrestler should have all rights to their name and their gimmick, whether or not they invented it themselves, or the company did. And especially IF they invented it themselves AND if they are independent contractors.

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  62. http://411mania.com/wrestling/evolution-schematic-6-20-13-kane-version-2-0-part-1/

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  63. Curt Hennig was.
    I'm surprised you didn't know that.

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  64. HowmuchdoesthisguyweighMarch 4, 2015 at 4:26 PM

    Only decent part was at mind games when Savio was attacked backstage and you caught a long range glimpse of fake diesel and razor. Ruined soon after.

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  65. That's a lot of upkeep and taxes to run one event per year, even if it is WM.

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  66. Different time periods over the last 40 years.

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  67. I wasn't watching WWF during this time but was flipping through the channels and hear JR say something about bringing them back. I tuned in the next week actually expecting to see Hall and Nash. Once I saw those bogus dudes I turned the channel and never turned back for months.

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  68. I think many of us not only have seen the ppvs but have also read all those rants as well (not unlikely more than once).

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  69. Who in the HELL would ever be booing Brock Lesnar for leaving? This is an entirely different situation from the last time. This time it's been common knowledge that Brock Lesnar has been signing short-term deals and that he wouldn't be around forever. Hell the whole idea behind Lesnar's heel character is that he isn't a die-hard wrestling guy, he's just there to make a buck off it. And he's STILL being cheered.

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  70. Is it symbolic? Like 71 times. Seriously, we get it

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  71. Who or what were the ultimate solution and z gangster?

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  72. Since I'm sure as hell mot watching it to find out, did they at least have the sense to play up the Northern Ireland vs England angle?

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  73. or simply just informed.

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  74. especially since they already had the same venues for more than once in the past.

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  75. The Mall of America?

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  76. this!

    that's also why I don't get the talk about next years WrestleMania potentially not being packed. of course it will be.

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  77. would be an easy and good way to make the shows more interesting. which is of course why they won't do it.

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  78. I thought they were going to go all the way and make them tag champs like the Outsiders

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  79. You really weren't expected to buy them as the genuine article.

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  80. I think most smart fans know already, and from the UFC side many fans have already figured it out. That should never get him booed.

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  81. this at least seem to apply for a lot of the people coming from overseas. just about everyone I have ever spoken to that took the trip has also been to the HOF and the next Raw.

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  82. as mentioned before, WWE seems one of the few companies that gets more despised the more "diehard" the fans are.

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  83. I felt bit was also a Nacho Man level jab at Nash/Ramon. But yeah it was designed to be an insult that made a point about IP too. Which are the best types of insults - multilayered ones.

    And man, if a gimmick kills your career off for good...then you fucking sucked to begin with. If a haircut, facial hair change, mask, wig or face paint can't disguise your past gimmicks and you can't get over that hump...then you suck. I've seen a dude who overcame being a wrestling dentist, I don't want to hear anyone else's excuse.

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  84. That was what I assumed, too. WM20's tagline WAS "Where It All Begins Again," after all.

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  85. When you say zone of the dumbest, are we limiting it to a certain number or something quantifiable?

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  86. Yeah, I don't think the people who commit and save for a trip to the U.S. do it to spend one night here. I imagine they save for the whole weekend. I just don't see them having much left to spend after the weekend is over.

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  87. the latter actually happened for me. was convinced a game (football/soccer) was going to be awful. but at the same time it was the last game in the Champion League group stage. so I basically went to celebrate the team for advancing to the knockout stage.

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  88. Crikey Mate Down Under AussieMarch 4, 2015 at 5:05 PM

    Could always come to the MCG in Australia, should hold about 120,000...

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  89. It's funny they spent months ripping on WCW with fake versions of Hogan and Macho Man only to do this shit with Razor and Diesel and now we're supposed to take this crap seriously? What did they think was going happen?

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  90. I've heard HHH speak out about guys taking liberties, specifically Holly roughing up Dupree in the ring, so it would surprise me if he's cool with Hugh Morris roughing up students in his baby.

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  91. I think it's fair I'd the company created the character - like Undertaker. But if the guy used the name prior to joining the company they shouldn't be able to take control of it as part of the terms of their employment. It gets a but murky when you have guys creating or adding aspects to a character like Hall did with Ramon though.

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  92. Tiny "Zeus" Lister and some steroid freak who played Bane in Batman & Robin right before he died.

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  93. Hell, Diesel was originally just Vinne Vegas minus the Mafia overtones

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  94. I guess Tommy didn't get the message that Sid is awesome.

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  95. kbwrestlingreviewsMarch 4, 2015 at 5:34 PM

    That might not have saved them, but it would have been a lot better than what we wound up with.

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  96. As a guy that wasn't watching at the time it was a real bush-league move. Fans probably looked at it and said "shots fired".

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  97. Do people really think Brock gets a 2004 reaction if it comes out he's leaving? The "smart fans" were pretty happy with the promotion in 2004 (with the Benoit and Eddie elevations) and the Brock thing was a surprise, a full timer who came up through WWE's system and was suddenly quitting. The situation now is completely different. The "smart fans" are generally unhappy with the promotions direction, it's been known for a long time that Brock could be gone after Mania, and he's not even a full timer anyway. It's not even close to the same situation to me. I have no idea if Brock will get a big babyface reaction or not (I'm guessing yes, but I don't know), but this isn't 2004.

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  98. Russo had absolutely nothing to do with this show. If you did 5 seconds of research, you would know that his first show with Ferrara was the next nitro.

    So sick of you virgins writing whatever fits your narrative.

    Hit the weights.

    Take a shower.

    Get a clue.

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  99. I was rooting for Andre at the time. It was the build up to Wrestlemania 3 which made me a fan. I always rooted against Hogan.

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  100. The difference between Ventura and Heenan is that Ventura didn't have a conflict of interest thus his words had more "credibility" with me. Heenan being a manager always represented a level of "bias."

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  101. I always thought hogan should have lost to sid at fall brawl for the belt not sting. Then goldberg could have beaten sid at havoc and a rematch at mayhem. Them at starrcade goldberg beats hogan, gets the torch passed to him, and he goes from there. Goldberg was their one superstar who was drawing money. I don't know why he was always on undercard feuds during time of need. Of course hogan probably would have sabatoged all of this, so what do I know.

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  102. I can't believe they blew that storyline. All because Mr.burns I mean Vince mcmahon started fixating on the dog saved a baby from being road kil.... Fixated on the next big money drawing angle. Then made Hornswoggle (the angle killer), the anonymous gm. My friend asked me why i continued watching after that revelation? On days like that, I question that as well.

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  103. kbwrestlingreviewsMarch 4, 2015 at 11:45 PM

    I don't know why they bothered revealing it at all. It was what, a year or so after the angle ended? Was anyone demanding to know the identity?

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  104. Russo definitely didn't write this show. The first show he wrote was the October 18th Nitro, and you can *really* tell from the very opening segment.

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  105. Do house shows count? He retains his title there all the time.

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  106. Battle Kat LitterMarch 6, 2015 at 9:59 AM

    I was after his TV record

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  107. Shut your mouth bitch

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  108. I accept your concession.

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