Thursday, March 19, 2015

Taker loses to DIESEL!

Hey Scott,
 
        Let's get crazy hypothetical here.  You're reviewing the Raws leading up to WM 12.  While we know Big Kev leaves for WCW, he DOES get a ppv main event in April (the awesome Mad Dog's leg match).  If Mick was already debuting in promos before WM 12, AND shows up the Raw after to attack Undertaker, then why not have Mick debut at Mania itself.  What better way to introduce a new character and feud then on the biggest show of the year.  Nash and Taker could brawl, and Mick comes out attacks Taker and Nash wins.  Nash uses his win to go for Shawn, Taker and Mick have insta-feud.  It's weird to think of a world without the streak, but I always wondered why Nash (in storyline) would deserve a title shot after jobbing at Mania. 
 
        Bonus Question: Where else might you have pegged Taker for a loss at WrestleMania before the last few years?  The obvious ones were HHH at 17 which we know now was political, and Orton at 21 in a "legend killing" moment?  Are there any other actual times Taker could've/should've lost?

​Really, there was little reason for Nash to be jobbing at that point aside from imminent departure.  Turning him had really freshened up the character and they could have pushed him again with no problem.  I like the cut of your fantasy booking jib with that one.

As for the second question, I think without question Flair should have won given the ridiculously one-sided beating that Taker delivered leading up to the match and during the match itself.  He basically terrorized Flair's family, for fuck's sake!  AA hitting that spinebuster and giving Flair the win would have exploded the Skydome, but of course it wasn't meant to be.  ​

101 comments:

  1. If Nash sticks around, he probably gets the title back sometime in the summer. Speaking of Mick debuting at Mania, has any dude debuted there? Seems like a surefire way to come in with a ton of hype debuting at the biggest show of the year.

    ReplyDelete
  2. or at least do a surprise run-in. Brock coming back the next night was a big surprise and all but what if he showed up and F5'd Cena to give Rock the win at Mania?

    ReplyDelete
  3. I forgot all about the Taker/Flair deal. They sure didn't waste any time trying to kill of Flair after he arrived in 01. Not saying he should have been going after the title but why not try to make some money with the guy?

    ReplyDelete
  4. Personally, I feel like the only two hypotheticals for breaking the Streak were to put Angle over in the early 2000s as the absolute best (pretty much like Brock), or for a Cena heel turn.

    ReplyDelete
  5. 'Cuz he was old, or at least, felt like a relic.

    ReplyDelete
  6. I like the idea in theory, but I like the idea of Brock coming back as the big dog targeting the wounded prey even better.

    And I think such a finish in such a match would have felt cheap.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Not really the "first look" we got of them, but Fandango and Langston both had their in-ring debuts at WM29.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogMarch 19, 2015 at 5:04 PM

    Yeah, it would have been bad ass if Rock and Cena tease a respect handshake or something after the match only for Brock to jump the rail and leave both guys for dead

    ReplyDelete
  9. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogMarch 19, 2015 at 5:05 PM

    HHH in 2001, Angle at some point, maybe Batista?

    ReplyDelete
  10. Oooh...

    I don't like the idea of Brock interfering in the match, but as a post-match surprise? That would have been amazing.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Brock's return was great but anti-climatic because we all knew why Cena was standing in the ring killing time. The ending may have been cheapened but they were doing a rematch anyway.

    ReplyDelete
  12. The pop from the AA spinebuster alone was great. If it had been enough for the win? Wow. (Maybe they should have paid for Tully to do a slingshot suplex just to seal the deal...)

    ReplyDelete
  13. He was still over and the owner role was taylor made for him. He only owned the company for what? 2 months? They could have gotten a year out of that at least. Flair making matches in his Ric Flair way. Who wouldn't like that?

    ReplyDelete
  14. I wouldn't have been mad at Kane beating Taker at WM14.

    ReplyDelete
  15. I'd have liked Orton to do it to create *the* heel.

    ReplyDelete
  16. I thought Taker had to win there. Actually, Taker needed a win period. He was in a bit of a big match slump

    ReplyDelete
  17. I thought Taker was losing to HHH at 27. Never had strong feelings about the streak but was shocked when he lost.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Another complain of Foley's regarding his push into the company was that Mero got to debut at Mania and he debuts on a random episode of Raw with little fanfare.

    ReplyDelete
  19. If Nash hadn't have signed with WCW, I can't imagine how WWF would have used him because WWF was going in a new direction with Shawn on top and pushing Vader as the #1 heel, it seems like Nash would have been a third wheel had he stuck around despite being awesome during this period.

    ReplyDelete
  20. Marc Mero got a debut interview at Mania and brawled with Triple H.

    ReplyDelete
  21. Mero actually debuted at WM 12. It was backstage but they definitely gave him some rub. As well as a feud with HHH to boot.

    ReplyDelete
  22. As a kid, I had no idea how Taker could possibly beat Giant Gonzalez.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Most thought Kane needed the win there with the theory being if Kane lost then his gimmick would be dead by the summer, but to Jacobs credit, he stayed over.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Well Mero was a fresh snatch from WCW who had just signed Hall and Nash. Foley hadn't been in WCW since 94 and fewer fans would have followed his career in ECW.

    ReplyDelete
  25. I thought the three tombstones to beat him protected him pretty well

    ReplyDelete
  26. Someone say Arn spinebustering Undertaker? Well why didn't you say so!

    http://i.imgur.com/3hSQZ.gif

    ReplyDelete
  27. Adam "Colorado" CurryMarch 19, 2015 at 5:18 PM

    When did Vince know Nash was leaving? I always heard it was just before WM, but I've never known for sure. If he's staying you have to have to have Nash go over, otherwise he has to job.

    As for the second question, I would have put Orton over. Barring that, 29 should have been Streak vs. Title with Punk winning.

    ReplyDelete
  28. I was referring before the match took place, most people on the Internet thought Kane needed the win to survive as a long term character, but Undertaker did a great job building Kane up to his level despite beating him.

    ReplyDelete
  29. As noted in the last RAW review, Nash gave official notice on March 5.

    ReplyDelete
  30. I always thought Vince knew Nash was leaving the day after the Rumble, but in Scott's most recent Raw report he said it was on that particular show.

    ReplyDelete
  31. As a kid, I never thought of matches ending in Count-Out or DQ. I always expected decisive results.

    ReplyDelete
  32. Adam "Colorado" CurryMarch 19, 2015 at 5:20 PM

    I wish Kane would have just disappeared after that match.

    ReplyDelete
  33. Flair should have also gone over HBK by pulling the tights while his feet are on the ropes, after a low blow. Then retired.

    ReplyDelete
  34. Adam "Colorado" CurryMarch 19, 2015 at 5:21 PM

    Ah, okay.

    ReplyDelete
  35. Kane's weird. He'll go on three month streaks of acceptable to good matches and than *poof* gone like it never happened! And the memories disapear just as fast.

    ReplyDelete
  36. I imagine if Nash had stuck around then Nash would have been put in Sid's spot to win the title at Survivor Series. I can see Shawn refusing to job to Vader, but gladly dropping the title to Diesel.

    ReplyDelete
  37. Randy Orton would have been perfect to beat Taker. I think we can all agree Brock was a poor choice.

    ReplyDelete
  38. Kane was a pretty good big guy worker up until 2002 then he got lazy and only had good matches if he was in the ring with an amazing worker.

    ReplyDelete
  39. Yeah. But we got an all time "Holy Shit" moment, so it's decent at least.

    ReplyDelete
  40. Given that they were gearing up Taker for a main event run and having Flair as a co-owner it made a lot of sense for Taker to go over. I just wouldn't have made the feud so one-sided.

    ReplyDelete
  41. Not in the slightest.

    ReplyDelete
  42. He had a good match streak after the unmasking even if the booking was atrocious.

    Same in 2010 when Taker was in the coma story.

    ReplyDelete
  43. Warrior's return count?

    ReplyDelete
  44. Weird to think Taker has beaten DX, Evolution, and most of the Authority at Mania.

    ReplyDelete
  45. Kane stepped up in terms of his character development and delivering good promos during Taker's coma, but I can't remember the guy having any good matches during that period.

    ReplyDelete
  46. Meaning that Reigns will have beat them all tangentially, if he beats Brock.

    ReplyDelete
  47. If only Taker had faced Hall at WM11 like originally planned then Taker could have beaten the Kliq at Mania too.

    ReplyDelete
  48. Things like this should be mentioned frequently on TV so the sense of scope is there. Reigns needs Cena coming out in Serious Voice and saying how dangerous Brock is and HHH making the Streak-to-Brock connection.

    ReplyDelete
  49. Mankind vignettes aired for 2+ months, and were pretty good promos, then beats down the Undertaker his first night on Raw. I would consider that anything but little fanfare.

    ReplyDelete
  50. Summerslam against Rey was actually very good, and I've always thought NOC against

    ReplyDelete
  51. Never heard Mero described as a 'fresh snatch' before...

    ReplyDelete
  52. Well he did come with Sable.

    ReplyDelete
  53. Yeah, the shock of the moment was awesome at the time but now all specialness of Taker at Mania is gone. He should have retired or only came back for a match with Sting or Cena only.

    ReplyDelete
  54. Mero probably got a nice paycheck for his little appearance at WM12, and Foley is pretty open in his first book that he thinks Mero was a hack

    ReplyDelete
  55. Foley was just jealous that he couldn't titty fuck Sable everynight.

    ReplyDelete
  56. I never understood the big deal about Sable, even back then. It wasn't even a very good boob job.

    ReplyDelete
  57. Pretty much everyone thinks Mero was a hack.

    ReplyDelete
  58. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogMarch 19, 2015 at 6:37 PM

    Who cares? Taker is about done with his career. It was right to give the rub to someone on the way out. It didn't have to be Brock, but I don't think there was any value in the Streak remaining unbroken. That perceived "value" is gone the minute he retires anyway. I agree that they should have done Taker vs. Cena before ending the Streak, but I don't disagree with ending the Streak in principal

    ReplyDelete
  59. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogMarch 19, 2015 at 6:39 PM

    Interesting. I always thought it was earlier.

    ReplyDelete
  60. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogMarch 19, 2015 at 6:40 PM

    Probably multiple iterations of HBK/Diesel as best buddies/sworn enemies ad nauseum. Like HHH-HBK would later become.

    ReplyDelete
  61. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogMarch 19, 2015 at 6:41 PM

    Precisely.

    ReplyDelete
  62. Virgil's Gimmick TableMarch 19, 2015 at 6:41 PM

    Not everyone has a fetish for hard plastic lumps.

    ReplyDelete
  63. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogMarch 19, 2015 at 6:42 PM

    Sunny in her prime blows Sable out of the water. It's not close.

    ReplyDelete
  64. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogMarch 19, 2015 at 6:42 PM

    Exactly. Foley was just a guy, as far as WWF fans were concerned, plus he was playing a brand new character.

    ReplyDelete
  65. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogMarch 19, 2015 at 6:44 PM

    In hindsight, it's good that he didn't, but at the time I think that would have been a pretty cool, ballsy move. Taker finally crossed the line to being willing to fight his brother, but maybe he's not ready to *beat* his brother. Kane goes over in shocking fashion, as Taker needs to dig down deeper "into hell" or whatever gimmickry to channel his darker side. Start it out like Vader-Sting though, with the monster winning. Interesting thought

    ReplyDelete
  66. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogMarch 19, 2015 at 6:45 PM

    The X-pac/Kane team was the last time I found him entertaining

    ReplyDelete
  67. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogMarch 19, 2015 at 6:47 PM

    Yeah, just when they seem to be going the contrived, forced version of Hogan/Warrior "respect moment", with Cole/Lawler falling all over themselves with hyperbole.....Brock runs in and levels both of them. Next night, Rock/Cena do a promo putting over their match at Mania, then both demand Lesnar show his face. Rather than a sneak attack, Brock just strolls out to his music with a smirk on his face and stomps both dudes out again (with the kicking of the hat of course).

    ReplyDelete
  68. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogMarch 19, 2015 at 6:50 PM

    I've never understood it.... even as a young mark who pretty much cheered the faces and boo'd the heels, I always loved Arn Anderson. Even when I hated Flair in his feud with Sting, I always dug AA.

    ReplyDelete
  69. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogMarch 19, 2015 at 6:56 PM

    As a kid, I remember thinking "Isn't that el Gigante? Even SID was afraid of him! And Sid is the scariest thing ever!"

    ReplyDelete
  70. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogMarch 19, 2015 at 6:57 PM

    There really was an interesting year to be had for a heel Razor. Taker at Mania, matches with Diesel, Shawn, Bret, Kid.

    ReplyDelete
  71. I'm okay with them preserving Undertaker's streak against Flair so long as Flair getting final comeuppance on Raw the next night.

    ReplyDelete
  72. Hall turning heel in 95 after dropping the IC title would have been the tits.

    ReplyDelete
  73. Diesel actually called his match the next month with Shawn at WM before he ever stepped in the ring with Taker. Young Legend was wondering why Undertaker wouldn't get a shot... but he seemed to be tied up with Mankind and Goldust anyway...

    ReplyDelete
  74. Whoa whoa whoa! Easy there. Let's not go crazy.

    ReplyDelete
  75. The greatest trick the devil ever played was convincing mankind that he doesn't exist

    ReplyDelete
  76. she just wasn't very attractive, imo

    ReplyDelete
  77. I suspect I'm in the minority but I never liked The Streak. Predictability can be good in the long-term for wrestling (underdog loses title, long road back) but I felt like it took at least one match of 'Mania and made it really boring in most cases. Sure, there were definitely some good Streak matches, but I think that was despite the Streak, not because of it.


    And what's worse is that it became its own monster, with many people saying the damn thing should never have ended. That's just refusing to use one of the company's most over performers of the last 30 years to build a new star and leaving money on the table, imo

    ReplyDelete
  78. See, I'm willing to accept that more as "building anticipation" than "wasting time". I think enough of the crowd was aware of where it was headed that they were playing directly to it.

    A similar situation was when Cena was hand-picking his opponent for "Summerslam", and was naming everyone on the roster EXCEPT for Bryan.

    ReplyDelete
  79. People don't look at it quite like that, though.

    ReplyDelete
  80. That Flair-Undertaker is one of the great underrated WM matches

    ReplyDelete
  81. Definitely - very good brawl.

    ReplyDelete
  82. Back in 02, I hated the fact that Taker was going to bury a WCW legend. I hated Rock was burying Hogan. Only the Hogan chants saved Hogan being future endeavored after the job.

    ReplyDelete
  83. Oh, I agree, I thought you were talking about him getting back in the ring.

    They booked him well for a few months, then completely negated the whole POINT of the brand extension by turning him heel just weeks after it happened (seriously, it was only about the weeks after the split that Vince and Flair reconciled their differences), immediately programmed him with Austin in yet another "evil boss" feud, and then completely panicked when Austin walked and removed Flair from the role.

    The whole thing lasted only five or six months, and never reached the heights it should have.

    ReplyDelete
  84. "what color panties do you think she's wearing?"

    ReplyDelete
  85. Hogan should have broken the streak and wore it around his waist like a title belt.

    ReplyDelete
  86. Is it true that Batista was rumored/discussed as being the potential Streak-Killer at WM23? Also, did anyone think Mr. Kennedy would cash in his MITB briefcase on either Taker or Batista that night? He already had history with both men since he challenged Batista for the WHC at the Rumble - a title shot that he screwed Taker over to obtain - so with Taker/Batista being for the WHC and Kennedy having won the briefcase earlier in the night, it seemed as if his previous tension with the two of them was them planting the seeds for a cash-in to happen...

    Imagine Taker winning a world championship for the first time in five years and then having that moment of glory (along with the title itself) taken from him but his STREAK along with it because Kennedy cashes in. I mean, yeah, it'd be shitty looking back on it since Kennedy ended up gone from the company a couple of years later (although perhaps they wouldn't have fired him so easily had they pushed him that big), but at the time, was it really that implausible?

    ReplyDelete
  87. Funny but I actually thought the Giant Gonzalez match at WM9, was his biggest threat to lose out of all of them.

    ReplyDelete
  88. And one of the nWo founders.

    ReplyDelete
  89. Santina Marella made her debut in a big fashion, winning the WM25 diva battle royale

    ReplyDelete
  90. Actually, I wonder if a freshly-heel turned Razor would be such a hot character that he'd actually go over Taker at WM11. The Streak would've been killed in its infancy.

    ReplyDelete
  91. I was mega bummed going into X8, Taker's my all-time favorite and I thought for sure Flair was winning, for all the reasons SK posted. His victory (and subsequent holding up of 10 fingers to acknowledge His Streak for the 1st time ever) was my markout moment of the night. Oddly , HHH, Orton & Batista were the only other times I was nervous for The Streak. Evolution was a threat before it even existed!

    ReplyDelete
  92. I don't know what I was thinking, but I was convinced HBK was winning at mania 26. For whatever reason, I didn't see Shawn retiring. Thankfully, Undertaker sent the sexy boy packing to his deer murdering compound for good.

    ReplyDelete
  93. Just watched it this week and I still love it. One of the rare good biker Taker matches.

    ReplyDelete
  94. In those days you had wwe contracts were one year with an automatic rollover option.
    You had to submit in writing 90 days prior that you would not renewlet you contract rollover.

    So at the most 90 days out.

    Pillman iirc was the first wwe guaranteed contract

    ReplyDelete
  95. Bury doesn't mean what you think it means, homie.

    ReplyDelete
  96. I thought Kane from his mask redesign until losing the mask was the best Kane. He seemed lighter than usual, more agile, and had a greater range too, he wasn't just BIG BURNT MONSTER FREAK. I always said if I could re-do one match in wrestling history Kane goes over HHH for the title and keeps his mask.

    ReplyDelete
  97. Maven should had ended the streak back in 2002. The guy had the perfect setup at the Rumble, and he had killer drop kicks.

    ReplyDelete
  98. In a Nash shoot he said the day of or after the February In Your House was when he decided he was leaving, so add a couple of weeks of getting things in order and officially giving notice and Scott's date adds up. I also recall that he couldn't start in WCW until June so that would line up with his 90 day no compete.

    ReplyDelete
  99. The Love-Matic Grampa!March 20, 2015 at 8:52 AM

    Yeah, that absolutely should have been the finish. Was the Streak even a thing at that point? Because I'm guessing that Taker would have been okay with jobbing to the Horsemen.

    ReplyDelete
  100. I remember watching X-7 with my friends who had pointed out that Undertaker had never lost at Wrestlemania, so we were all expecting him to lose to Triple H that year. When he didn't, we were surprised. I don't know if WWF acknowledged it on-screen much, but after Taker beat Flair, he held up his fingers and counted to 10, signifying that he was 10-0 at Mania. That was the first time I remember Taker himself referencing the streak on TV.

    ReplyDelete
  101. I really thought Orton was going to at Wrestlemania 21. When he went for the Tombstone, that was a great moment and I thought it was all done at that point. I think that match is really underrated.

    ReplyDelete