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Taker/Wyatt Booking

Scott,

I can't remember a mania build I've been less enthusiastic about. Just thinking how WWE has more than likely booked themselves into a corner with The Taker and Bray matchup. On one hand if Taker goes over it's two straight years of Bray being built up only to not get the rub at Mania. If Taker jobs again this yr doesn't that seriously devalue the legacy of the streak with 2 consecutive losses? In retrospect, could Brock have been rebuilt as a monster without going over last year, and saving that rub for Bray this year since he seems to be as good of a long term option as any on the roster at this point?

Thanks,
Jay

Sent from my iPhone


Bray is a guy who seriously needs to get the hell off TV for a few months and go elsewhere to freshen up.  He's done nothing for months but cut nonsensical promos about nothing and hasn't had any direction since the Wyatt Family breakup, and it's killing him.  I don't even understand what the issue in the Undertaker match is supposed to be.  

My ideal situation:  Wyatt uses the reunited Wyatt Family to beat Undertaker, and then the Shield reunites in the main event when Reigns loses and Rollins cashes in after a triple powerbomb on Lesnar, and we get a few months of those two factions warring with each other again in various combinations.  Hit the damn reset button and try again.  

Comments

  1. All for reuniting the Wyatt Family-- that breakup is looking worse and worse as all three flounder as singles.


    If you wanted to leave Luke Harper out of it, you could bring back Rowan and as your new third guy, Viktor of the Ascension (so you get something out of that investment). Cut Konnor loose and see what you get with the new clan.

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  2. MaffewOfBotchamaniaMarch 17, 2015 at 5:55 PM

    In fairness, they've hyped him up as a big deal in the last few months and I'm looking forward to the match.

    Wyatt promos are a waste of air time though when he's just blahalahabahaalahaahaha ah talk about nothing and ah smaahaal and laaaugh and it's OK because aahh'm weird DEPP

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  3. No, Taker losing is GOOD for his Legacy.

    Brock didn't beat Taker at his best. He beat a Taker with little left in the tank who lost again. In Kayfabe you can justify Brock couldn't beat him at WM in his prime.

    Out of Kayfabe, a Taker who is on a losing streak playing the sympathetic face for the first time in his career is a way more compelling angle for WM 32 then if he's another guy going 50/50.

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  4. I find it interesting that people talk about the Streak as a currency that still holds value and should be considered. For better or worse, that currency was spent last year so any immediate ability to devalue its legacy is slim to none.

    *Warning: Fantasy Booking Imminent*

    I do think, however, that there can be positive mileage gained out of it by having Taker lose again this year. He does the big entrance, the announcers trip over each other to sing his praises, and Bray beats him clean as a sheet, maybe even puts him in a casket. Even if Brock stays, Bray can say that while someone else broke the Streak, he broke the man. I'm not saying this makes Bray into a top act but it certainly doesn't hurt.

    On the other side of the equation, you've now got the Undertaker having lost at the last two Wrestlemanias. WM32 draws near and Taker makes his yearly return, to challenge Bray or some other big heel, and they laugh him off; the mystique is gone, he's just a washed up guy looking to regain his glory days. Pull Shawn Michaels out to do an interview where he tells Taker to walk away, nothing left to prove, etc. Since the aura of the Undertaker is gone, you can really push a human element with it, something that would be very different and fresh for him and could conceivably create some great television.

    You end it, of course, with the big heel taking on the match only if Taker puts his career on the line, allowing for tie-ins to the 2nd match with Shawn, and then having him win and retire anyway since he proved he could still do it. I know there's usually a clamor for veterans to put over other guys but by this point Taker will have been responsible for rejuvenating Brock and possibly Bray's career, plus whomever works with him in his last program gets a rub as well. With this scenario you can just tell a good story and say goodbye to a legend in a classy way, unlike what we got with Flair.

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  5. But Scott--the main events HAVE TO REVOLVE around Big Steph and Hunter. It has too. Nothing makes sense without them.

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  6. We appear to have similar opinions of how Taker should be handled

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  7. You can reunite the Wyatt's, God knows it's needed, but you can't put that Shield genie back in. They have no logical reason to unite, especially Ambrose. They are too far removed.

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  8. Seth Rollins: Sorry I tried to kill you with a cinderblock.
    Dean Ambrose: No worries

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  9. The thing is Bray was taken off tv after the Cena feud only to return as a holgram. I forget how long it was though. How often do you have to do that with him? I like him but he seems to speak a lot without really ever saying much. I guess thats the problem when you have a guy speaking in riddles all the time.

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  10. A heel Shield, held together by Heyman's financial backing to overcome personal differences, running roughshod over WWE for a year would be fantastic.

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  11. Does this fucking guy wrestle until he literally dies in the ring? Do we trot him out so he can stare menacingly at people from behind a walker?

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  12. Hey hogan tried vehicular homocide on Ths rock and 2 weeks later they were hugging.

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  13. 32 is the absolute last we'll see of him for sure. I just feel like they wouldn't bother this year if he wasn't Gonna go for the home state send off next year.

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  14. It's more a problem of shit writing.

    Watt has nothing to say because he doesn't actually have a character, just a trope. What's his backstory? What left him so broken? What does his cult actually beleive?

    You think anyone knows the answers to these questions? What has the talent to deliver the promos, wouldn't it be awesome if they actually gave him something to LEARN in them.

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  15. If Jay wants be less enthuastic about a wm match he should watch the Adonis/uncle elmer match at wrestlemania 2.

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  16. I don't know, I could totally see a Shield reunion. Ambrose has pretty much been a joke on his own and you could have the bumbling Authority cost Rollins the Orton match causing him to leave for greener pastures. Heyman realizes his money ticket is leaving so he re-unites the team that were rumored to be working for him from the beginning to take down his monster. There is your new heel stable...

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  17. Wyatt has been floundering really since the end of the Cena program. No direction at all. The shame is the character has the ability to be deep and interesting and god knows Husky is putting his all into it. But there's nothing there.

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  18. I SOOOO want Reigns to win at Mania, and for them to keep pushing him.
    I also want Taker to destroy Wyatt, Big Show to win the Battle Royal, Triple H to go over Sting, and Kane to insert himself into the ladder match and win that.


    Why? Because in the last few years that WWE has been booking beyond all reason, the IWC forums (especially this one) have been ridiculously entertaining. Moreso than they would be with competent booking on the part of WWE.


    So GO REIGNS!!!

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  19. Is there even a logical reason as to why they CAN'T reunite the Wyatt's? It's not like Harper and Rowan are lighting the world on fire as singles guys.

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  20. How long was Mankind just Mankind before the WWE started dropping hints to him being Cactus/Foley and that he had a past? Similar characters, but one grew and evolved and the other is Bray Wyatt.

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  21. Wasn't that the original Shield concept in the first place?

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  22. It was at least a year. The JR sit-down interviews were in the summer of 1997.

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  23. Hey Sid, what are your thoughts?

    SID ‏@SychoVicious 3h3 hours ago

    Arn used to stay in the tanning beds more than the gym. He always told me that bronzed fat looked better than white fat.

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  24. there was no logical reason to break them up in the first place.

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  25. They could just do a thing where every heal on the roster locks Taker in a casket and the match is declared No Contest. Then everyone saves face!

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  26. I thought he was already dead. Isn't that why they call him the Dead Man?

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  27. They never have any logical reason when they break teams.

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  28. Honestly. When he first debuted I figured 'follow the buzzards' was leading to UT somehow. But this is not what I had in mind.

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  29. Triple H tried to cripple/kill Shawn Michaels by shattering his spine with a sledgehammer.

    There's a lot of pretty silly shit you have to ignore for pro wrestling to "work" and as hard as it is, this kind of thing is one of them.

    Yeah, more consistency and attention paid to history would be great, but if no wrestler ever sided with a guy he previously feuded with, there would be no allegiances, stables or tag teams.

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  30. Austin tried to kill Triple H and in lest that six months they were teaming.

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  31. Oh I don't agree. 'You're holding us back while I carry the load' is ALWAYS acceptable.

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  32. People really give Bray a shot here?

    Why?

    Not being snarky, either. It just seems like a foregone conclusion on the level of Cena beating Rusev that Bray's jobbing.

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  33. No way. Harper and Rowan are totally jelled as a team. Rowan's best work has been as part of the Family.

    If you're gonna reunite them, why swap Harper's partner for a dude he's hardly ever worked with?

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  34. At least that was four years later.

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  35. Orton kicked women and senior citizens in the head point blank.

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  36. I don't think he will win.

    I think he should

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  37. You're forgetting the forgettable Jericho feud

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  38. He has to run out of rocking chairs sooner or later.

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  39. Sad that you feel the Wyatt character is tired. Considering he was the youngest competitor in the 2015 Rumble, we have years, if not decades, to become bored with his schtick.

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  40. That is a very Sid like tweet. Lol

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  41. My problem is that his motivation has never been explained. He doesn't care about titles, he seemingly picky targets at random and says more or less the same thing.

    They need tk go full Cthulhu cult with him.

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  42. I actually think that since Bray's promos have become focused on Taker, they've made complete since (in a psychotic/evil Charles Manson/Devil's Rejects kind of way). This is where having competent announcing would help fill in the blanks. You know JR would be able to talk about the young lion calling out the grizzled veteran, etc... etc...

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  43. He totally should. I just lack even a single shred of faith that the WWE agrees.

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  44. And yeah, Bray losing to Cena at 'mania wasn't so bad, it was the fact that they had no plan for him after.

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  45. And? If a guy tried to cripple/kill you, you'd consider it water under the bridge 4 years later?

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  46. Obviously, but at least some time had elapsed.


    The worst was HHH killing Flair and then a year later DX freaks out when RKO beat him down

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  47. it wasn't the loss at mania, it was the CRAPPY win at Extreme Rules and loss at whatever the next PPV was that did Wyatt in

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  48. I think he wins here and takes over Taker's "mystique". As in being the creepy guy tied to some otherworldly power and not neccasarily in legacy. From there, you could point Bray at whoever has the IC belt (Bryan, Ambrose or Ziggler) and have him turn towards climbing the ladder now that he has beaten the dead (or something). Would even be a good excuse to get Harper back with Bray, as he needs to take his protege back under his wing to show him how it's done.

    I also strongly suspect this is Taker's last match unless he has a fountain of youth he has been drinking from this past year. He's clearly getting HOF next year in his home state and the crowd would be fine so long as they got him to due his entrance at the show methinks.

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  49. Adam "Colorado" CurryMarch 17, 2015 at 7:49 PM

    "If Taker jobs again this yr doesn't that seriously devalue the legacy of the streak with 2 consecutive losses?"

    What streak? It's over, it ended last year

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  50. Fantastic idea here for Taker's last run. I wholly agree.

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  51. In the brief interactions the three have had since the breakup, they've established that Rowan is trying to be his own man but Harper is very much still a Wyatt believer. I get the feeling Bray could literally snap his fingers and Harper would be right there back with him.

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  52. That's a pretty awesome idea actually, I would go one step further and bring in a new faction made up of NXT people too.

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  53. One of my favorite Scott lines too -- something like 'and Hogan shakes Rock's hand, presumably to say "sorry for the attempted murder, brother" and Rock is like "it's ok, I didn't sell it anyway."'

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  54. Charismatic eNegro Jef VinsonMarch 17, 2015 at 8:01 PM

    This question has nothing to do with Roman Reigns.

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  55. I just don't think they'll come up with anything better than the Bray character for him. If they can miss on a can't miss deal like that, NOTHING is going to help.

    I still think he's salvageable - everyone is if they can bring it in the ring, they just need better booking. Fans are happy to have short memories. Mark Henry was dog shit in the ring for YEARS, but as soon as he started having good matches, people got with him.

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  56. Bray wants to be the Face of Fear(c) whatever that is supposed to mean.

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  57. lol Terrible idea. They just hit the reset button on Wyatt last Fall when they removed him from television for two months following the breakup, so doing it again wouldn't really accomplish anything. Plus, after that awesome feud between Ambrose and Rollins, the two of them should reunite with Ambrose along with Reigns protecting the guy who turned on them while he gets to walk around with the glory of being the world champion?


    In my opinion, just have Bray Wyatt defeat and "retire" the Undertaker. I know they won't because they want Taker to work at Wrestlemania 32 in Texas next year (here comes Taker vs Sting.. meh), but imagine what it could do for Bray if he were the one bestowed with the honor of being the one to finally lay The Deadman down to rest for good after so many others have failed.

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  58. Charismatic eNegro Jef VinsonMarch 17, 2015 at 8:26 PM

    They are going to beat the horse they call the Undertaker, make glue and dog food out of him as long as they can. Doing this is more valuable than keeping Bray strong in the eyes of Vince.

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  59. Mark Henry was an interesting case as he floundered for years and then just suddenly hit a groove with the right character. His matches really weren't that much better.

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  60. Charismatic eNegro Jef VinsonMarch 17, 2015 at 8:36 PM

    Just a big dude going out there and kicking peoples asses? What a novel concept.

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  61. The Bray Wyatt character got especially lost once he jettisoned his followers for no reason. A cult leader without a cult. You know, there's a reason Raven always had followers in his career high points. It made him a better character.

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  62. I think the Wyatt Family breaking up was way premature. It's not like they did it because they had big plans for either of the other two. Harper is good in the ring but has nothing else going for him right now. They should have atleast given him a couple of new followers after.

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  63. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogMarch 17, 2015 at 8:51 PM

    Exactly. There is nothing to devalue. Its not a thing anymore and they already sold Streak dvds. It has no more value

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  64. Needs more Kane and Big Show inserting themselves into the multi-way tag title match and squashing Cesaro and Kidd to win the tag straps.

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  65. Theberzerker, #1 HUSS CHOMPIONMarch 17, 2015 at 8:57 PM

    "My ideal situation: Wyatt uses the reunited Wyatt Family to beat Undertaker, and then the Shield reunites in the main event when Reigns loses and Rollins cashes in after a triple powerbomb on Lesnar, and we get a few months of those two factions warring with each other again in various combinations. Hit the damn reset button and try again."



    YES. BOOK IT! BOOK IT NOW! ALL HAIL KING BOOK IT!


    Although, since they won't, I kinda hope Rollins holds on to the briefcase until the last possible cash in second. There are some drama opportunities they haven't done before that would make for an interesting show/angle.

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  66. My thing is Bray Wyatt has got to be one of the most ineffective "cult" leaders in history. Do they EVER let him do anything that's really evil? All he does is really talk while doing mildly "mean" things. He should be having the most vicious heel beatdowns and just being an all around nuisance....but all he does is talk. It's just hard for me to care about him in any way, shape, or form until they have him actually being a mean MF'er.

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  67. Bray was done shortly after the Cena feud because the writers never had any clue what to do with his cult. One of the biggest recent screwups, I really think they had something with Bray, he could work that character. I suggested they hit the reset button about a year ago, and they probably still should. He's a fat weirdo that I'm never going to take seriously.

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  68. It's hard for him to do things too evil (like the ministry of darkness used to) because of the PG rating. So basically, he is stuck doing vague innuendos in bizarre rants and nothing more.

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  69. I get what you're saying, and I agree with you to a point, but you can be mean in a PG environment. Maybe he messes with the families of the faces he goes against, maybe he attacks the face in the locker room, maybe give him a "dangerous weapon", something to make him stand out. I've noticed even his heel beatdowns, he'll do his finisher, and then leave. He should be hitting his finisher like 5 times or use weapons around the ring.

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  70. You're right. Sorry I made that misstep. I hope everyone can forgive me.


    In fact, they should skip all of the matches (except for the main event, of course), and have 4 hours of Kane and Big Show standing on the turnbuckles (with run-ins from HHH and Hogan), literally pissing on Ziggler, Bryan, Cesaro, Ambrose, Owens, Neville, and Zayn (because watch out, they're getting popular, so he should know what he's in for), while they try to catch a brass ring hung just out of reach over the middle of the ring.


    And now I depressed myself looking at the list of wrestlers I just typed and realizing how amazing WWE could be right now. (It's how I felt for YEARS as a TNA fan. It really blows.)

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  71. I don't know, dude. I've really only got 3 words in response to that:


    Jake the Snake.

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  72. He sexually assaulted Stephanie.

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  73. Face turn when Heyman's cheques inevitably start bouncing?

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  74. I think a face turn would help Bray alot.

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  75. Battle Kat LitterMarch 18, 2015 at 2:54 AM

    I'm with you on this one

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  76. Opponent: "I will face you, Taker...on one condition. Win or lose, you are done. Your last match ever will be with me.
    Taker: "Be careful what you wish for. I accept. At Wrestlemania, you will rest...in...peace. And after putting you down, so will I."

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  77. If memory serves me correct, he cut a promo on the Free For All prior to the Mind Games PPV match with Shawn Michaels which was held in Philadelphia where he alluded to having fought in that city in the past. But it was a subtle type of hint.

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  78. That Sid is such a cut up. I'm glad that he took a stab at twitter.

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  79. That's Luke Spencer's gimmick!

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  80. If it's Cena, does the match still draw?

    I have no problem with Taker going out on top, and I don't see Cena giving two shits about laying down either.

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  81. Would also be nice if his cult actually had...you know...cult members...

    (He should ask to borrow the Rosebuds...)

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  82. That's the thing. Someone like Bray wasn't scary on his own. He needed backup.

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  83. Battle Kat LitterMarch 18, 2015 at 5:16 AM

    Mordecai should have ended the streak

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  84. And what is Bray Wyatts past? Beeing Husky Harris? ;) Many newcomers are just lacking depth in their character, because they weren't in japan and had death matches with Terry Funk or they weren't in WCW and had many memorable matches elsewhere.

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  85. My biggest problem with Taker vs Wyatt is, that it is not Taker vs Sting. I mean, THIS was THE match you had in mind, when the rumors came that Sting is maybe coming to WWE. And now we get something completely different. It's like Bryan coming back for rumble and then he doesn't win it. A missed opportunity.

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  86. Belee_Matt!_INDEED!!!March 18, 2015 at 5:33 AM

    I think it should be the HOLOGRAM vs. the CASKET. Just leave those WRASSLERS out of it, PAL!

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  87. Jake the Snake didn't have to read soap opera scripts.

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  88. Lusting for Elizabeth is a perfectly logical reason!

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  89. Battle Kat LitterMarch 18, 2015 at 6:14 AM

    In fairness, without the streak a Sting vs Taker match is just two 50 year olds who don't even appear on WWE TV having a match for the sake of it. I'd struggle to see the point. For me, at least Taker/Bray and Triple H/Sting have some worth in storyline terms (even if it's just a little bit). Streakless Taker vs Sting would hold no interest for me at all.

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  90. Battle Kat LitterMarch 18, 2015 at 6:15 AM

    I would have gone with Undertaker vs Kane. To my knowledge that has never been done before.

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  91. The Wyatt Family would have been great if they let them truly act like sadistic heels. But that's bad for the brand - if the audience gets too scared or upset, then no one is HAVING FUN. So the Wyatts were the bad guys who never went too far, just a bunch of mediocre beat downs and Bray acting spooky, but not too spooky and oh hey isn't their entrance so cool everybody?!?!

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  92. "Yep Mode" Abeyance Brown ©March 18, 2015 at 6:31 AM

    At a different time, Bray would have been booked very differently and probably for the better.

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  93. How much of a value has a "streak" in a "sport", where all results are fixed in beforehand?

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  94. Geez Adonis vs Elmer is a match that is embarrassing. If you watch that around a non fan they would think something is wrong with you.

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  95. Battle Kat LitterMarch 18, 2015 at 6:41 AM

    By that argument, what value has anything in wrestling? Why do we watch?

    Surely the streak did the opposite of what you're saying. It ADDED value. Rather than just Undertaker vs someone, it was "can anyone end the streak". It added value and made some of his later matches more interesting, and blew everyone's mind last year when Brock won. That's the value.

    Serious question: why would you want Undetaker vs Sting this year? Is it still a dream match now, even with both guys borderline retired?

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  96. Knuckleberry PinnMarch 18, 2015 at 6:45 AM

    Bray was going STRONG early 2014. Over as hell. Beat Bryan clean at RR. Had a MOTYC at Elimination Chamber.

    Honestly, I think they should have had him end the streak. He's then your super mega-heel (who is there every week), and a match with him and Bryan for the Strap at Summerslam has a logical story, and has that cool Bret/Owen 1994 vibe of "Wait, you're the champ? But I *beat* you just before you won the title. *I* should be champ!"

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  97. Charismatic eNegro Jef VinsonMarch 18, 2015 at 6:52 AM

    Until they figured out what to do with Bray he should have managed a stable of wrestlers and got them over with his interview skills. Breaking up the Wyatt family was just the wrong thing to do and is another case of the WWE breaking up teams for shock value and have no clue what do do with them afterwards.

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  98. Oh yeah. Geez you're right. I guess that was forgettable.

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  99. Yeah that scott line has always stuck out in my head for some reason.

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  100. Rikishi commit attempted murder and he's going into the HOF. I hope no one googles Rikishi.

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  101. Bray needs Sullivan as a writer.

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  102. Plus they were split up just as they were tearing the house down on a routine basis.

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  103. For me most of the taker matches were boring, because you know, that he wouldn't lose.

    Who cares if both aren't fulltime or the streak is over. I just wanted to see the match because both are dark mystic characters. The streak was never a reason for me to see forward to a Taker match at WM. Undertaker is a legend himself, so why wouldn't you want to see two legends against each other?

    And now you don't see Sting or Taker. If they would have a match at WM, you would at least see one of them before Wrestlemania. ;-)

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  104. The Love-Matic Grampa!March 18, 2015 at 8:27 AM

    In this scenario, Orton would have to be the heel, right? Because I can't see it being Cena (since he ain't turning), HHH doesn't need any more notches in his belt and we don't need more Kane or Big Show. Lesnar could work, too, but that would be the ultimate 50/50 booking and we've had enough of that, too.

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  105. I don't get why people are so down on Bray Wyatt. He dominated Ambrose in their feud, dominated in the Rumble, and looks really strong. His promos are awesome, people still shut up and listen to him instead of "What?"-ing like they do during Reigns promos, and he's awesome and exciting in the ring. It's absolutely NOT killing him to be cutting promos or to be involved in a match with arguably the greatest Wrestlemania performer of all-time. Even if Wyatt loses, which I think he will and should, it won't affect him that much.

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