Skip to main content

What if?

Hi Scott,
​​

Is this full-on hate for Reigns' push to the main event unprecedented?

In a 'what if?' scenario, what matches/angles/push of the past do you think would have been met with such fervour and condemnation if the internet was around (so basically thinking pre 90's)?

​If you read really old Observers, Bob Backlund was met with disdain by Dave and his readers all the time.  ​Backlund defending the title against, say, random Samoans near the end of his reign was pretty much buried and ridiculed on a weekly basis.  When will they learn that a collegiate champion wrestler World champion defending against a Samoan WILL NEVER WORK?!

Comments

  1. Rocky Miava getting pushed to the main event of WM 12/13.

    ReplyDelete
  2. I'd say that Brock's initial push was meet with pretty much the same amount of disdain/disinterest. The feud with the Hardys was a good start, but his matches were boring and he had no personality; once he won the "KOTR" tournament and it became obvious that he was going to dethrone Rock for the title, it was pretty much the same situation as now. The Long Island crowd at "Summerslam" helped, but the following months were equally boring.

    It really wasn't until the Angle feud (and the idea that Angle/Brock could potentially be the GREATEST MATCH EVER) that Brock started to get the appropriate reaction.

    ReplyDelete
  3. MSG was on fire for him at Survivor Series.

    ReplyDelete
  4. I don't know what you're talking about. Brock was a beast from the start.

    ReplyDelete
  5. His debut where he demolished a bunch of the hardcore guys was FANTASTIC, but his matches were about as generic as possible for the next year.

    Sure, the Rock match was good, but why do you think so much has been said about the LI crowd being so hot for him? It's because it was out of the norm. He wasn't getting those reactions before or after.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Scott's a big Brock lover but if you read his 2002 rants before Summerslam, he was pretty much burying the guy.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Rock didn't debut until Survivor Series 96. This was well after WM 12.

    ReplyDelete
  8. The first time that I lost interest in the WWF was towards the end of Bob Backlund's reign, probably late 82 or early 83, and I didn't really follow it again until the buildup to the original Wrestlemania. Fortunately, I did have access to other territories (Mid-Atlantic, Georgia, Southwest and eventually Mid-South) to fill my wrestling needs.

    ReplyDelete
  9. I wasn't feeling Brock until he beat The Rock and those badass training videos less if up to it had a lot to do with it. So ice I took to him as a dominant monster they turned him face and I checked out on him again.

    ReplyDelete
  10. I've always felt that a big part of that is because NY doesn't like pretty boys - we pretty routinely rooted against Rock and Shawn, despite them being the faces.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Big Show is a pretty boy?

    ReplyDelete
  12. Gah, my bad, I was thinking of "Summerslam" at the Nassau Coliseum. Sorry about that.

    ReplyDelete
  13. Scott - are you going to cover the news about Rey's match yesterday night?

    (The following was sent to me by a friend - I don't know the source)

    "About 2 and a half hours ago Rey Misterio Jr.'s return to Tijuana ended with him dropkicking Perro Aguayo Jr. & Manik (TJP) into the ropes for a double 619, nailing Manik with the move and splashing him for the win. Except Perro Aguayo Jr. hit the ropes wrong and suffered either a brain hemmorage or cervical spine trauma and was knocked out.
    He never woke up.

    An hour later reports came in he died in hospital.

    I have no words. This is an absolute tragedy."

    ReplyDelete
  14. I watched the video. I wouldn't recommend it.

    ReplyDelete
  15. I never seek out that sort of thing, tbh. I know a lot of people who watched things like the ISIS beheadings, or other such things, online, but the thought of it just freaks me out. I don't understand why you'd want to see it (a generalised "you" rather than you specifically, btw).

    ReplyDelete
  16. It's not graphic or anything(you do see blood coming out his eye) I just wanted to see how it happened. The video starts with him already slumped against the ropes. It was pretty fucking horrifying.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Brock was a beast, but he definitely was not connecting with the fans at first.

    ReplyDelete
  18. "not connecting" is overstating it a bit.

    ReplyDelete
  19. People would have burned the United States to the ground if they ever tried giving Hillbilly Jim that kind of push.

    ReplyDelete
  20. As Tom said, read Scott's reviews from 2002.

    ReplyDelete
  21. It sounds like such a freak accident - I read somewhere else that some think the cause was Manik hitting the ropes slightly too early, causing them to rebound into him. Probably the sort of situation you could repeat a thousand times and never have a single injury or problem stem from?

    Obviously my thoughts are with his family, but I hope Rey and Manik are getting looked after in the aftermath, too - it's the sort of thing that could scar you for life.

    ReplyDelete
  22. I just saw it. It didn't look like Rey hit him with the 619, did it happen before that?

    ReplyDelete
  23. I have and that is only one dude's opinion.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Apparently Rey dropkicks him in the back and the injury occurs when his neck hits the ropes.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Yeah, but Backlund had four years or so of success before fans got tired of his run. By 1982, a lot of the culture was changing -- MTV, Reagan, USA vs. USSR, etc. Backlund was already out of date in the late 1970s, in the early 1980s he was like stale white bread.

    ReplyDelete
  26. I could only imagine what Rey is going through. All that bullshit to finally get released from WWE and this happens in his second match back. I wouldn't be surprised if he hangs it up.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Yea, and I shared that opinion. He was this big musclebound guy and they were trying but it wasn't clicking. I think the build to Summerslam plus him murdering Hogan helped turn the tide. That and NY going nuts for him

    ReplyDelete
  28. Yeah, me too. Was actually one of my first thoughts - given the fact he's struggled through all the injuries and things as well, he might just think this is the straw that breaks the camel's back.

    Helluva thing :(

    ReplyDelete
  29. Meltzer's hatred of Backund always struck me as odd. It seemed like there was something personal there

    ReplyDelete
  30. They were building him up. No guy has the crowd go nuts for him right from jump street. It wasn't like there was a backlash to his push or anything.

    ReplyDelete
  31. I remember going to a Raw show in Glasgow (Scotland) when he was just emerging on the scene, and was feuding with the Hardys, and the crowd were going apeshit for him. The guy was a legit monster freak and got one of the biggest pops of the

    ReplyDelete
  32. There was online, since people were complaining he wasn't over

    ReplyDelete
  33. Talkin bout you and me, and the games people play

    ReplyDelete
  34. The Hardyz hitting him with the chair was awesome

    ReplyDelete
  35. Awful, horrible thing, hearing about Perro Aguayo. Doesn't matter that he wasn't a guy I'm very familiar with--it sounds like it was a fluke that could happen to any wrestler in any ring at any time. If feel bad for his family & friends, for Rey Mysterio and the other guys in the match, for the fans & people of Mexican even. Just a terrible thing, and a sad day for wrestling and its fans.

    ReplyDelete
  36. I find your claim of people complaining online hard to believe.

    ReplyDelete
  37. I know, right?

    ReplyDelete
  38. Scroll down a bit - we're having a chat about it.

    ReplyDelete
  39. WWE got no chill. They just sent out a tweet telling everyone to check out the Mysterio DVD on the network right now.

    ReplyDelete
  40. I wonder if this is the same dude who made racist comments to Del Rio?

    https://twitter.com/WWENetwork/status/579281509514870784

    ReplyDelete
  41. Fucking hell. Someone needs their jotters for that.

    ReplyDelete
  42. Jesus I hope you are kidding.

    ReplyDelete
  43. I posted the link to it right below.

    ReplyDelete
  44. Utter clownshoes from top to bottom, the WWE... :(

    ReplyDelete
  45. Automated maybe? No clue if the mysterio show is new or npt

    ReplyDelete
  46. You have to hope so, really. Surely even the WWE wouldn't be THAT stupid.

    ReplyDelete
  47. Battle Kat LitterMarch 21, 2015 at 8:14 AM

    Holy crap. That is distressing to read :(

    ReplyDelete
  48. They plugged the show yesterday, but today's tweet is different. So it isn't from some bot. Some intern definitely tweeted that himself.

    ReplyDelete
  49. I had the network for a year and other than the ppvs, I never once turned on the live feed. Just play an old wrestlemania if you want to watch one.

    ReplyDelete
  50. I'm sure you can guess which match won me over for good. Rhymes with "beating the fuck out of Hulk Hogan".

    ReplyDelete
  51. "And I understand about VOD and all that, but they're trying to make it a channel first and an internet streaming service second."

    Scott forgot to add, "because they're fucking idiots," but I guess that's implied at this point.

    Last weekend, they went something like 36 hours on the live channel before they aired a goddamn wrestling card; it was all total divas, legends house, countdowns and "this week in wwe." Would it fucking kill them to be like, hey it's Wrestlemania week lets air a bunch of old WrestleManias?

    ReplyDelete
  52. The live feed is fun for live-tweeting snark in real time, but that's it

    ReplyDelete
  53. Brock was green as Hell until his HIAC with Taker. Then he carried Big Show at Survivor Series. The dude actually picked up a LOT after Taker did the politics thing at the September PPV.

    ReplyDelete
  54. I don't remember the seating the duck shout of bulk slogan match.

    ReplyDelete
  55. Right, people get that. But who exactly is that live feed supposed to be appealing to? Countdowns, total divas, Legenda house, and recaps. Fucking 36 hours of that. Who wants it?

    If you're going to the trouble of having a live feed, at least make it somewhat appealing to the subscribers!

    I mean, CHRIST, at least throw one of those shitty movies on to mix it up a bit.

    ReplyDelete
  56. Thaddeus MountainMarch 21, 2015 at 8:23 AM

    I just read about it and saw the video. Absolutely heartbreaking. It's definitely one of those freak, one-in-a-million situations, like Hayabusa breaking his neck. I can't begin to fathom what Rey is feeling right now.

    ReplyDelete
  57. TJ: On the death of Perro Aguayo Jr. last night, this looks to be what led to his death

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CAm5AMMUMAAWaRc.jpg:large

    ReplyDelete
  58. Damn...it looks so harmless, catching him on the shoulder.

    Rey must be devastated right now.

    ReplyDelete
  59. For sure, gotta be feeling horrible.

    Looks like the whiplash came from either the dropkick itself, or when he went trachea first into the middle rope.

    Iv seen all of the videos after he is already KO'd on the ropes, but nothing prior, so not sure.

    ReplyDelete
  60. Apparently Manik hitting the ropes after him caused them snap back into his throat.

    ReplyDelete
  61. That match really put him over. The Nassau fans ate up everything Brock did, hated Rock and Brock neutralized everything Rock through at him.

    It was a perfect situation to put a new guy over.

    ReplyDelete
  62. What I don't understand is how, a year later, the archived content is still so damn sparse. I mean, okay, maybe there's not a HUGE demand for NWA Saturday night from 1985-86 or so, but how in the blue hell do they not have every episode of Nitro and Thunder, or the Raws/Smackdowns from the Monday Night War era? More ECW TV? Anything from Mid-South or the AWA? It might not be much at the margins, but then it wouldn't cost much at the margins either, and if you get a few thousand extra sign ups just by adding a whole bunch of old content and letting people decide what they want to watch it'd put them out ahead.

    ReplyDelete
  63. Because the network, as has been noted by none other than the guy who runs this blog, is intended to be a PPV streaming service. All the other stuff?

    Just produced so that people can't call it a PPV streaming service, shareholders can't ask why the company just cut the price of their PPVs by 80% for no reason and programmed by people who have no real passion for, interest in or understanding of wrestling.

    ReplyDelete
  64. Found the full match

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmieRklWdaE&t=402

    The Rey dropkick into the rope at 6:21.

    Im still thinking it was the dropkick and subsequent whiplash into rope

    ReplyDelete
  65. That AAA referee is a fucking joke, he doesn't even react until Rey Mysterio basically yells at him and even then he's just shuffling around the ring.


    The 6-1-9 misses completely so the damage was done when he hit the ropes throat first presumably? I guess AAA still uses the old school steel wire ropes ala Cactus Jack losing his ear in WCW era?

    ReplyDelete
  66. But it just seems like complaining for the sake of complaining to me since if you don't like the live feed, just hit play on something else. Unless you're in Canada and only get the live feed. Then I get why it's annoying.

    ReplyDelete
  67. Can't really blame him. Nothing looks out of the ordinary.

    ReplyDelete
  68. The funny thing is there is a window of time where Hillbilly Jim was over enough that you could have done an angle where you--briefly--put the belt on him. Like say the Iron Sheik or Bundy "injured" Hogan, and took the belt. Jim could have then got revenge for the Hulkster & won it. Of course he'd lose it back quick & Hogan would eventually regain it. Just saying that entire Rock N Wrestling era of babyfaces was probably more over than Reigns.

    ReplyDelete
  69. I watched one Al Quaeda beheading video back in the early 2000's and that was enough. Scarred me for life.

    ReplyDelete
  70. Thinking the same thing about the ref. Watching the incident, he has no reaction to Perro laying neck first unconscious on the ropes, doesnt even check on him

    ReplyDelete
  71. That's the spot tho. You're supposed to lay on the ropes and not move. How would any of them would know anything was wrong?

    ReplyDelete
  72. But laying just by the neck on the bottom rope?? Cmon

    ReplyDelete
  73. So what? It was an accident, it's not like he Benoit'd his family.

    ReplyDelete
  74. Jeez, it's so innocuous. Looks like the spot was supposed to be the frankensteiner from Rey sends him into the ropes to set up the 6-1-9 but he tumbles outside instead only to quickly roll in and take the dropkick to the back which sends him throat first and that was that.


    Terrible and shows how fucking dangerous even the most basic wrestling match can potentially be.

    ReplyDelete
  75. Why would you think that'd be life threatening? It ain't like he took some dangerous bump on his neck.

    ReplyDelete
  76. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmieRklWdaE&t=402

    At 6:41, that wouldn't raise any red flags to you as a referee? Seeing him lifelessly slump from the middle to bottom rope?

    ReplyDelete
  77. I have no idea why this has shaken me today, but it did. I guess maybe the idea that someone died doing something I love to watch? Guess it's just one of those step back moments where you wish you could say to the people in the business "for God's sake please be careful and safe. Do not really hurt yourself for the sake of our entertainment." In a broader sense I think it ties in to why I hate the term "Sports Entertainment" so much. Wrestling is illusionary violence, and I'd rather think of it in the context of a sport rather than entertainment.

    ReplyDelete
  78. It looks like he goes running towards him but stops when the wrestlers start working again. I'm assuming he thought he might of just been KO'd or something.

    ReplyDelete
  79. Canada only gets a live feed? That defeats the purpose of the network. I've never once put the live feed on and usually forget it's even an option

    ReplyDelete
  80. It's called tact, neck beard.

    ReplyDelete
  81. Idk. I guess its easy to play monday morning qb, and state how I would have reacted.

    Unfortunate situation all around

    ReplyDelete
  82. Charismatic eNegro Jef VinsonMarch 21, 2015 at 8:59 AM

    I see what you did there...

    ReplyDelete
  83. I don't know enough about the sports culture down there, I hope they don't take it out on him. Between this and that bus accident earlier this week... just an awful week for Mexican wrestling fans. I try to think of an equivalent, a star of Aguayo's level here in the US. Randy Orton maybe? 2nd generation star. I dunno. But just imagining if Orton died like that in the ring. It almost makes you start shaking, you know what I mean? Hell--Owen Hart is an easy comparison and look how we're all still not really over that.

    I know they wouldn't, but it would be nice to see WWE make some kind of acknowledgement of this. They *are* the industry in this country--the world, really--and it would be a nice gesture to offer a few words of condolence.

    ReplyDelete
  84. I don't know if it's still the same but originally in Canada it was just the live stream with a few on demand titles.

    ReplyDelete
  85. They're as lazy as the booking leading up to WM.

    ReplyDelete
  86. Lol. Good one.

    ReplyDelete
  87. Throwback Thursday is their best day of programming, IMO. Why they can't replicate that type of pattern, but keep shoving Total Divas down our throats is beyond me. 1000's of hours of the old NWA Saturday evening shows and we get Total Divas??? Legends House? An easy fix is calling it Flashback Friday and just showcase NWA stuff all day. I still think they should have done a "30 Days til WrestleMania" type of thing where you show 1-30 each day in succession over 30 days. I mean, how simple is that? Too late now.

    ReplyDelete
  88. Didn't have much of a chance. Almost certainly the most relentless rocket push in WWE history. He'd won KOTR, the IC and the world title within five months of debuting.

    ReplyDelete
  89. Hmm... there are two reports on F4W... one headline stating "Perro Aguayo Jr. dies mid-ring..." the other "Perro Aguayo Jr. passes away in Tijuana hospital after match last night." PWInsider is saying he was pronounced dead at 1am.


    Does anybody know what time the match would have happened? Some of these Mexican shows run late.

    ReplyDelete
  90. You guys understand that they're using it to try to sell their new product, and they only show old stuff because they already own it and its cheap time filler, right? If retro wrestling was such a big market then Classics on Demand/ 24/7/ the DVD market etc wouldn't have dried up.

    ReplyDelete
  91. Stranger in the AlpsMarch 21, 2015 at 10:08 AM

    If you guys want classic content, I have some late-86 WWF from Superstars of Wrestling to Wrestling Challenge right here:

    http://www.dailymotion.com/strangerinthealps



    I post shows in chronological order where I can, and I'm about to get into 1987 NWA as well. I just put up the episode of Wrestling Challenge from 12/20/86. I'm plugging in some of the gaps left by the Network.

    ReplyDelete
  92. 100% this. The archive is there to appeal to the hardcores who will have the time, patience and desire to use it. That's the audience the WWE knew they had in the Network boat from day 1. That's not who they're courting.

    ReplyDelete
  93. Has anyone else had trouble accessing archived content lately? I keep getting error messages telling me that the content is not available at this time. It's stuff like Hall of Fame ceremonies and Quick Hits.

    ReplyDelete
  94. I do believe cult was going for a hypothetical comparison there.

    ReplyDelete
  95. I feel like I should be getting royalties here or something

    ReplyDelete
  96. ...just... why?

    ReplyDelete
  97. You really aren't too bright, are you?

    ReplyDelete
  98. ღαґ√ ḉґεṧтøMarch 21, 2015 at 12:49 PM

    Netflix is over there putting together House of Cards based on studying user preferences while the E puts up Total Divas on their channel for hardcore wrestling fans. It's truly astounding.

    They've added like 10 episodes of Attitude-Era shows in a year but please, let's focus on the live stream that no one asked for or uses.

    ReplyDelete
  99. Question for any Canadian subscribers with the Cable package. Does it now grant you full access to the online content? Been a subsciber since day 1 using an IP blocker but our cable provider had a free preview for the month of February and I gained a whole new appreciation for the live stream.

    ReplyDelete
  100. I've had the network since a week after it debuted. My watching of the live stream has consisted of....nothing. don't even watch the ppvs live. Better to start them an hour later, even if I could watch it live, just to FF through diva matches. I do occasionally browse the schedule just to see if anything new has been added, and is how I've found such things as the abridged Factions DVD, the abridged Bret Hart DVD (2nd one), etc.


    And like many I continue to be annoyed with the lack of JCP content, the lack of AWA, the lack of Monday night wars era Raw, SD, Nitro, Thunder, etc., the lack of 80s syndicated shows, and the lack of ECW TV shows and "big shows" (e.g. Cyberslam, A matter of Respect, etc.).


    There are times I feel like I should cancel it just to show Vince that my 9.99 is in no way any sort of endorsement of any current WWE content, save NXT. There are times that I feel I should cancel it to show that I'm irritated by the glacier like pace of adding content. But ultimately I get enough value for my 9.99 with watching NXT, Primetime, various docs like the Heyman one, shows like Monday Night Wars, Rivalries, etc. and other odds and ends. And while the smart move would be to put up large chunks of shows as soon as possible to please a wide audience and offer variety, ultimately I have so much ECW to watch, so may WCW ppvs, so much Primetime and TNT, and so many other odds and ends that even if they stopped posting any new content outside of the brand new stuff (Raws 4 weeks after airing on USA, etc.) I still would have several years of viewing. But while there is all that content, it would much nicer to have choices on what to watch for when I'm in the mood for some old school MSG house shows or Mid-South or JCP, or when I want some attitude era TV or when I want to watch the evolution of Evolution or the Smackdown Six.


    While I don't know that Scott is correct or not, IF he is correct and WWE really sees the live feed as the big deal, they are so out of touch it is comical. They do seem to be "getting it" a bit more the last few months with the additions of Rivalries (since dead in the water after 5 or 6 episdoes) Primetime, TNT, full HOF shows, ECW month, the Austin podcasts, Youtube stuff, etc. But again the pace of adding content is so glacially slow, it's pathetic.

    ReplyDelete
  101. Nwa 1987..il be watching..I've been wanting to watch 80s nwa, found loads on dm but did they hold three shows a week? Nwa worldwide, nwa pro, world championship wrestling..I was wanting to start with 86 and found all 3 but didn't know which was main..

    ReplyDelete
  102. Stranger in the AlpsMarch 21, 2015 at 3:32 PM

    World Championship Wrestling, I believe, was the muthaship. Then World Wide was in syndication, and then Pro was also syndicated. I hope to have all three posted.

    ReplyDelete
  103. That is in fact what canada has

    ReplyDelete
  104. That's the funny part. I've had 7 months of the Network (6 months when it first started, and 1 when they switched to monthly), and I've watched a grand total of 5 minutes of the live stream.

    ReplyDelete
  105. I think even more important than extra signups is those "nostalgic fans" keeping their subscription (because if they know there is only a few batch of new content every few weeks, why not subscribe every two or three months and watch it then?)

    ReplyDelete
  106. And we have to may more for the privilege.

    ReplyDelete
  107. Shareholders did ask about the 80% price cut and WWE's argument was that the network would make up for lost PPV revenue if it maintained around a million subscribers.

    ReplyDelete

Post a Comment