Monday, March 23, 2015

Why Ironman?

Hey Scott,

The Wrestlemania 12 question about Shawn/Bret not hitting 5 stars got me wondering... why the "Ironman" match?  I think it was Pat Patterson's idea, but in 1996, in California, why give them such a forced stipulation?  Didnt someone think, "Jeez 60-minutes NO falls, and 1:30 into OT Shawn hits the kick and wins" was kinda ridiculous booking.  If the card was so in shambles as to not support other matches, then why not sell the match as a one on one match between the two best guys, AND then have it go 60 minutes!  There's a reason why everyone fawns over the 55-minute Cena/Michaels classic from Raw after WM 23.  It's because NO ONE expected them to go the hour.  Flair/Steamboat II is also an unparelled classic that went 55+ whereas most WWE ironman matches feel like there's so much time-killing involved.  Meanwhile we're complaining about a 62 minute 4-star match when most Raws are 3-hours of 3-minute squashes and 20-minute interviews

​The Iron Man match backlash seems to be becoming the new Roman Reigns of the blog.  I actually have always like the match and rate it at ****1/4, but never want to watch it again.  The initial plan for the match seems to have been more like HHH-Rock, with lots of falls and crazy stuff, and in fact on the March 11 RAW I just reviewed Vince is essentially promising that.  And then at some point they drastically changed the idea of the match and there's a lot of "he said/he said" about who refused to take falls for who and we got what we got instead.  Really, in retrospect the stip was a huge failure and we would have been better off just doing a match.  ​


31 comments:

  1. I'm also not sure given the roster they had at the time they could have filled a 3 hour Wrestlemania.

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  2. If they started the match at only 1:55 into the ppv, the first 30 minutes would be wasted because fans knew one of them wouldnt win with 30 minutes left to go in the ppv.
    I enjoyed the concept because a fall could happen at any time and it has never been done before in wwf.

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  3. I don't know man, I still don't get the backlash over the match. Even as a kid I predicted it would go to a draw because the vignettes hyped Bret and Shawn as equals. Wrestling to a stalemate fit the story. And the match still holds up for me as an old-school technical exhibition. I think it's 5 stars, but to each his own.

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  4. I don't think it was originally booked with idea of hbk working the arm for a half hour while Bret refused to sell it the whole time.

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  5. I stand by my opinion that Bret losing in overtime to have an "out" was the right booking. It set up a rematch down the line, that never really, happen and it put over Shawn as someone who could outlast the Hitman.

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  6. I agree, I think the overtime was good idea. I just kind of wish they had falls during the hour. If it was something like 1-1 it would have added a lot of drama.

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  7. Might just be me but it felt more like a boxing match with the training highlights and how there standing there face to face while the rules were explained. Except of course I don't remember any boxer coming down from the top of the arena on a zip line

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  8. The iron Man match showed how in 1996 the fans wanted one thing, and McMahon was so out of touch with reality that he pushed what HE wanted, whether the fans cared or not.

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  9. She said she said. They both had giant bleeding vaginas at that point, and Bret still does.

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  10. Bret's never mentioned he of Shawn refusing to lose first, so either he refused to lose first or it wasn't an issue. All Shawn's said was Patterson wanted to see them have an Iron Man match, they didn't do falls because it was felt they were the two best in the world and shouldn't be losing multiple falls to each other and the ot was simply for drama and wasn't meant to give Bret an out for losing, although it did give him reason for wanting a rematch.

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  11. I think Jarrett, Mabel and Hakushi were gone and Kid was the only guy on that list still getting any kind of a push and I think that ended after his loss to Razor at the February pay pew view.

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  12. I still say the last 10 or so minutes of that match rank up among the best match finishes in wrestling history. When Shawn does the Holy Shit Bump and Bret just ANNIHILATES his back, it looks like fucking death.

    Yeah, the first half an hour is basically a wash, despite Shawn doing awesome, state-of-the-art technical stuff he'd never really do again. That part of the match is like the first 10 minutes of a Japanese Junior Heavyweight match- it just doesn't matter, and is there to be perfunctory.

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  13. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogMarch 23, 2015 at 7:53 AM

    Yes, Bret getting the first fall instills doubt. Maybe Shawn really cant beat him. Shawn gets the second to even it up and show,he can do it. But now he has the impossible task of beating Hart twice. Overtime. New match, Shawn proves himself once and for all

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  14. Battle Kat LitterMarch 23, 2015 at 7:54 AM

    Jeez, what dumbass would take part in a match they knew would last for an hour. If it was me I'd make a deal with the other guy to wrestle for, say, the last 30 minutes - and we could spend the first half of the match sat on a chair in the ring with a newspaper. Much more sensible.

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  15. Battle Kat LitterMarch 23, 2015 at 7:55 AM

    Upvote for using a word I had to Google for a definition.

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  16. Good thing they figured that out by now and they don't still force things on the fans

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  17. This blog would explode if a Raw today had this much energy and drama weaved throughout the show.

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  18. Bret's arms were so strong it wouldn't be believable they could be hurt.

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  19. Perfunctory? I googled to. Considering how much of my day to day life is perfunctory I should have known that.

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  20. Battle Kat LitterMarch 23, 2015 at 8:10 AM

    Yep. I have been educated today

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  21. I actually love the match, and think the stip worked perfectly the FIRST time you watched it; there was a lot of tension and suspense. It's just not a great re-watch when you know what's coming.

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  22. Scott's Blog of Doom is fully committed to providing its readers with high quality edu-tainment!

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  23. God I remember this match as being such a pain in the ass to watch -- at 45 minutes or I decided to make a beer run because it was such a shit show. I came back just in time for OT and remember asking my friends if I missed anything and they all said no. Not a good sign for the main event of the biggest show of the year. Mind you I was really pumped for this match ahead of time, but WWF wore me out with its tediousness. What a horrible Mania this was: Austin wasting his time with Savio Vega, the pre-taped Goldust-Piper match and the looooong OJ joke, etc. It's sad when the most rewatchable match is arguably Diesel-Taker.

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  24. I dunno

    Prince Naseem once came to the ring on a flying carpet

    https://wildrover999.wordpress.com/2011/06/12/top-10-boxing-ring-walks-of-all-time/

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  25. And you (and your opponent) would never work in wrestling again.

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  26. That diesel UT match was good. Oddly I watched it for the first time since I saw it live just yesterday and really enjoyed it. The main event was good, but I got with the general consensus on the blog and thought once is enough and they never should've had the 60 min stip, just went the distance as a surprise.

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  27. Jorge SteinbrennerMarch 23, 2015 at 9:45 AM

    I thought this was exactly how an Ironman match should go. I honestly cannot stand the idea of guys who never get pinned suddenly getting pinned off of every surprise and transition move multiple times within 30 or 60 minutes.

    Could easily see an Ironman match where it does 2-1, or 3-2, some of the falls based on finishers, then later falls based on wearing down.

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  28. At the time, I received a newsletter, called the Wrestling Tribune, in the mail every week. I remember the scoop was for the falls to be 2-2 going into overtime. But, then Vince changed his mind because he didn't want his new champion to lose two falls.

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  29. Shawn absolutely should have been the first one to drop a fall (to help build drama for his eventual win AND set up Brets eventual return match), so I'm gonna go with him being at fault.

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  30. You missed a lay-up joke there about Sid not letting a broken leg stop him from winning a title.

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  31. I was a full on WCW mark at this point, and had been at least since Nash showed up at GAB. A buddy of mine was still a solid WWF guy, though, and we watched Final Four at his house in a big group. I barely remember the midcard in retrospect, but I was totally transfixed by the main event, especially Austin. I was flipping to Raw for pretty much the first time for this show and, again, the stuff with Austin was just amazing. A totally amazeballs show, and definitely the time when WWF got on my radar comapred to the NWO stuff.

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