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Billy Jack Haynes

Scott,

When Billy Jack Haynes made his wwf return in 86 after being hyped to debut in 1984 but leaving right away, was the reason he was not given a bigger push a direct result of him bailing 2 years prior?

He had a pretty good feud with Hercules but then kind of floundered for the middle part of 87 before forming the tag team with Ken Patera to feud with Demolition.

Could that team of worked if Haynes did not leave in the middle of the program with Demolition? Or was the writing on the wall after the Hercules feud ended?

​I don't think Vince particularly trusted him, and rightly so.  He pretty much bailed on the company during his biggest run and then went back to Portland, plus he was a major risk to have around at a time when drug use was becoming a sensitive issue for them.  At the time I thought he was a bigger deal, but I was 12 and knowing all the things about him we know now I'm frankly shocked they even brought him back in 86 to begin with.  ​

Comments

  1. '87 was weird... guys blading at WM in some BS undercard feud over a full nelson.

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  2. billy jack haynes cousin was brady boone who was battle kat, cousin of bob cat, ok thx bye

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  3. MaffewOfBotchamaniaApril 30, 2015 at 7:09 AM

    This is where I again remind everyone that Billy Jack in his shoot says that the original plan for Wrestlemania III was for him to headline.

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  4. I'll also say that his push wasn't that large because he sucked.

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  5. Shane was really good upon his return to ECW, but for whatever reason after Barely Legal he was never the same wrestler. His hospital promo post whipping Pitbull 1 by the halo is as good a promo as it gets, on par with Cactus' anti hardcore promos.

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  6. I refuse to believe the Dean character was absolute death -- it could be pulled off with the right attitude. Look at Honky Tonk Man. On paper that sounds completely stupid, but it worked because he had the right attitude and forced that shit to work. Douglas had an attitude, though he always cracked me up when he shouted "grammatically incorrect!" at Razor.

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  7. After Eddie's death I started to slowly not keep up with the product. And like Scott said, I will never run out of stuff to watch on the Network

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  8. After Benoit's death, it didn't kill my fandom but affected it to the point I didn't start watch regularly again until Punk's SES was formed and Daniel Bryan was called up to the main roster.

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  9. That pilgrim hat was straight up fire. Surprised someone hasn't tried to bring it back.

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  10. I think for me, around Wrestlemania 22 or so, I started to not really care anymore. I was 22 and the entertainment level started to not exactly interest me anymore. I was a fan of the 80s and early 90s era, then loved the Monday Night Wars, but after that slowly started to fade. Wrestlemania 20 for me was probably the last time I remember being a hardcore fan where I had to watch everything.

    I used to watch RAW and Smackdown every week religiously. Friends would come over, it was must see television. Every PPV was watched. Then as I started to finish up college I wondered, "why am I still watching this? It is such a drag." I think older fans don't like today's product and rightfully so, but I started to realize that I'm no longer in their targeted demographic.

    Today my friends and I pretty much don't pay attention except for the period of January to April, which we call "Wrestling season." Starts at Royal Rumble, ends the RAW after Wrestlemania.
    Summerslam sometimes make a cameo appearance for a "wrestling vacation."

    Much more consumable this way.

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  11. hi why bill jack cray

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  12. I'm not the lifetime WWE fan most people are. I only started watching in college and was a WCW guy. From there, I went to ROH and never looked back. I truly enjoy watching indie wrestling and can't imagine I'll ever not enjoy it. I totally lost interest in the WWE once Bryan got hurt. I mean, it's fun to see Seth Rollins doing so well, but I know it will all go nowhere.

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  13. He also sucked in the ring, even by mid-80s standards

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  14. ... and now I know that him and Austin are eskimo brothers.

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  15. Shane Douglas is the definition of a wrestler who is a legend in his own mind.

    He was a good hand in the big leagues, but a big fish in a small pound in ECW. In the early days of ECW he was one of the only guys who had significant runs in national promotions, which is why he stood out like Terry Funk. Marty Jannetty could've played the exact same role.

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  16. I believe the emailer is referring to CRZ.

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  17. I've been a fan for over 30 years and have never once seen roh. I should probably check it out

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  18. This was me that wrote this in. I used to be a much bigger fan than I used to, being able to consume anything regarding wrestling at any time.


    Owen's death started making me feel bitter about the business as a whole.
    Then Eddie died.
    And then the whole Benoit deal.
    On top of that, all the other tragic deaths of guys dying way too young from either overdoses or suicides.


    It's made me feel a lot more bitter about the business I once loved. The current WWE product certainly hasn't helped, either. Once in awhile, I'll get a spur of interest due to something like, say, WrestleMania or a great PPV or RAW or NXT. But I barely even watch wrestling anymore and find I have trouble getting excited for it at all anymore.

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  19. I guess you can say he left WALKING!
    Hahahahaha ...haha.ha er... ahem.

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  20. Same here. Never had access to the company. And I don't have a Sinclair affiliate in my area. Guess it's not meant to be.

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  21. I think I watch wrestling wrong as well because I have absolutely no desire to watch a ppv, ive already seen. Unless it was just one match that I enjoyed then ill skip to that. It's like re watching a baseball game.

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  22. I've gradually lost interest since graduating college, but I haven't watched any WWE programming since this year's Royal Rumble with the exception of WrestleMania. I don't see that changing until Lesnar comes back, and in that case I really just want to see Lesnar's segments.

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  23. Easy for me: Kane or Big Show in another main event at either the Royal Rumble, Summerslam, Survivor Series or God forbid Mania (though hopefully that is even beyond WWE's incompetence level). I'm a bit older and I still hold those PPVs a little sacred. I turn off the TV now whenever either Kane or Show show up. So,yes, that means I haven't seen a whole lot of WWE TV lately lol

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  24. "Being a top level worker and talker in ECW at that time wasn't exactly high praise on the national stage, ya know? Heyman very carefully controlled what you saw and heard from people like Douglas, which was obvious when he was left to die in the WWF alone."

    This is also what Shawn said in his shoot and it always struck me as 100% accurate.

    Also, Nash (who wasn't high for his shoot and had no reason to lie) said it was the Bone Street Krew that buried Douglas and though he doesn't deny that the Kliq had no real love for the guy, he claims it was because Douglas tanked his first few matches in the company with Waltman and then dogged Hall in the ring during their feud.

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  25. And he knew that Vince impregnated Nancy Benoit in 1985.

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  26. You should check out the stuff from like 10 years ago.

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  27. I don't know, cause maybe he knew he'd end up like this? http://officialfan.proboards.com/thread/522784/billy-jack-haynes-goes-facebook

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  28. "On top of that, all the other tragic deaths of guys dying way too young from either overdoses or suicides."


    Thankfully, a lot of this had ended though. The fact that there aren't guys doing piles of blow and pills every week like it's the 80s or the 90s is a wonderful thing. There used to be a big wrestling death seemingly every month. Not the case anymore.


    Go back ten years: of all the guys on the Mania 21 card, only Eddie and Benoit are dead. In 2000, it was unheard of to look back at a PPV in 1990 and only 2 guys had since died.

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  29. See I tend to use it as background when I'm working out on the elliptical machine (go ahead and make jokes here). I used to just go to awesome matches that I liked, but now I've just chosen a year and gone with PPVs sequentially. I'll still skip boring stuff, but for instance I watched WM 18 recently, which I never saw before.

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  30. Shane Douglas: The Only Person to Have Beef with Yokozuna

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  31. I stopped watching full time a few years before I was saved. The WWE was not a sufficient idol in my life, and I became obsessed to the point that I believed if I watched Redskin football games they would go to the Super Bowl again since we had a guy wearing the number 17 and Doug Williams won us the Super Bowl with the number 17. I stuck around for some of the big shows in the winter of 08, 09, and 10 -- but I think right after Shawn's retirement is when I really stopped watching. Once I was saved in 2011, I had no real desire to ever watch the current product again. Brock's return in 2013 was tempting and I did watch a YouTube version of the 14 SummerSlam match - but by 2008 it was just dull and boring. Jericho returning weighing less and trying to be a convincing heavyweight pulled the plug for me. I did try to rally for Hogan's return in TNA - but the whole nWo vibe from day one just had me changing the channel. I think I stayed long enough from 08-10 to have Raw on as background noise - but finally I just got sick of it. The product is so plastic and phony nowadays that I could never really get back into it.

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  32. I do the same thing with old ppvs. I just put them on as background noise when I'm working out or when I'm working from home on Fridays. I'd rather watch King of the Ring 1993 or a random Clash of the Champions than Spike TV's weekly Gangland marathon all afternoon.

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  33. I have to admit that Shane got better on promos in 1995 after they stopped doing those stupid pretaped promos and gave him a live mic. I mean, watch any of his initial Dean Douglas stuff where he talks in this monotone voice and looks scared. Then watch Summerslam 95 where he actually has a personality.

    Anyone else remember when he was an announcer for TNA during the Fox Sports era and made stupid faces and said "Ooooooooh" and "Hahahahaaaaaaa!" all the time when he interviewed people?

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  34. Do you like Jesus and Hulk Hogan? I can't tell b/c you never mention those things.

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  35. It doesn't make sense that Bischoff showing up is the final nail in the coffin. It was an amazing moment, and Raw was pretty exciting for a while.


    If anything, a year later when Triple H feuded with Nash would have made much more sense.

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  36. AverageJoeEverymanApril 30, 2015 at 8:05 AM

    I would imagine he would have hat to eaten a lot of beef if he sat down to eat with Yoko.

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  37. I have directv now too, and their app for Ipad sucks, so I can't really even watch live TV on it (unless I'm missing something). So to that end, the WWE network is great for me while working out.

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  38. HHH, Big show, and Kane goes on nxt takeover and beats Owens, KENTA, and Balor, in a 6 man. Then Stephanie cuts a promo....

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  39. I remember hearing about how awesome Shane Douglas was as heel in ECW, both in the ring and on the mic. When I finally started buying the old ECW DVDs and watching his matches, I wondered what the fuck you people were smoking. I didn't see one Douglas match that was worth rewatching. The match with Pitbull 2 at Barely Legal that got so much hype online put me to sleep.

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  40. Battle Kat LitterApril 30, 2015 at 8:15 AM

    This matches me almost exactly! Die hard up until somewhere between WM21 and WM22, and since then I've only ever regained interest in "wrestling season" each year.

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  41. The only ECW matches of his I liked where the ones against Bam Bam, Al Snow and the two Taz matches (although there was too much crowd brawling for my tastes).

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  42. 2004-2006 Generation Next/Punk/Joe era is probably their best stuff, before everyone got scooped up by WWE and TNA.

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  43. I have "the sickness" so there likely will never be a moment where I will say I'm 100% done and done with it all. I simply can't because its just a part of who I am. I've taken numerous breaks from the product over the years, some longer than others, but I always come back when they actually give me something to give a shit about.

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  44. Benoit pretty much did for me until the summer of Punk had me come back and killed my enjoyment of the product for good. The great value of the Network and NXT has since restored that love of wrestling.

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  45. always like Monsoon's backhanded comments during matches about Billy Jack not being in the wwf sooner because Hayes didn't believe he was ready

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  46. "well thank you very much Mean Gene, I'm from Oregon... check out my hat"

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  47. I thought it was universally accepted Douglas was a terrible wrestler? He was the best heel promo guy in the world in ECW, but an absolutely terrible wrestler. His matches were good due to the drama of the story going in. The Taz story was particularly good. Douglas's matches were death, though.

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  48. "the t-shirt sales with a picture of my hat were selling through the roof... I'm from Oregon"

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  49. Trying to keep track of the Internets opinion on Douglas/Clique will make your head spin. So he was a bad worker at that point with a terrible gimmick who's a noted asshole that can't get along with anyone anywhere and it's the Clique's fault? I remember Douglas being good in the early 90's, or at least being in good matches. I didn't see ECW during his heyday but he was built up as king shit in magazines and when he came to WWF I was disappointed. He was just boring, in and out of the ring.

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  50. But the Clique is bad!

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  51. He pretty much wrecked himself with pain pills by the early 2000's, that match he had where he puked on Raven in TNA was sad.

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  52. I'm on a pretty good break now having watched nothing since the Rumble. I've had breaks before but always sort of kept up via reviews which I'm not doing now. I keep hanging out here, and I still like old stuff, so I'm not totally divested and maybe I'll come back, but it doesn't feel like it.

    For the first time ever, for me, wrestling just seems lame.

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  53. I didn't really watch WCW enough to know if he was any good in the early 90s. What I did see of him was never really all that impressive.

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  54. All I remember about Billy Jack, really, was the Demo's feud, and that he was from Portland, had a cool hat, and didn't last long.

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  55. You know, it's funny. A nepotistic oligarchy is obviously inferior to a meritocracy, in a vacuum at least.

    That said, a meritocracy is oppositional to human nature and people will always play politics.

    When you really think about it, yeah, they hot potatoed the high visibility roster spots between themselves, but who did the Kliq really hold down?

    Candido, who was 50% his own worst enemy, professionally, for putting Tammy ahead of his own career.

    Bam Bam, who was done as a main eventer by the 90s anyway.

    Mabel? lol

    Jean Pierre Lafitte? Who?

    I would even go so far as to say that (HOT TAKE ALERT) there's a case to be made that John Cena has done more damage to promising, young careers than the Kliq did.

    (Kliq being defined as the original in the WWE in the 90s, not what Nash did in WCW, not what HHH did in 2002-2008, etc.)

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  56. I've been watching pretty faithfully since '84 (Jesus, I'm getting old), with a few lulls along the way (post-WMIX through '96, '06-'09 or so), and I can honestly say that the product has never pissed me off as much as it does right now. I see at least a few minutes every week (usually the opening segment), but usually end up getting annoyed and changing the channel. I'll check in during commercial breaks of whatever else I'm watching (sports), but am almost never compelled enough to leave it on. It's hard to get invested when the guys who look to have a chance at breaking out are constantly being booked to have their heat cooled. The only guys in the upper-card whom I really give a shit about at this point are Lesnar and Rollins. One of them is gone until SummerSlam and the other is feuding with Orton. Pass.

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  57. His finish was the shits. It looked like a glorified hug.

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  58. As a kid, I bought into BJH big-time, but probably only because the Apter mags hyped him endlessly. It felt like a huge deal to me when he finally showed up in '86. But knowing what I know now, I agree with Scott completely. Great look, but a useless slug on the mic and a fucking lunatic outside the ring. I'm surprised he even got the run that he did.

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  59. I really don't get why CRZ would have had that as the trigger to leave, unless he had been toying with leaving for a while and thought that was a convenient scapegoat to pin it on. Maybe I'm missing something tho.

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  60. My only memory that stands out for me hercules busting him open at wm3.

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  61. Just...wow. I'd love to see a competent psychologist comb through that mess and offer some analysis. In a business that's always been loaded with crazy mf'ers, BJH is in a class by himself.

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  62. It's funny though - I still remember that feud, and the SNME battle royal that escalated it

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  63. I began tuning out in 2003, and now I only watch the Rumble, Mania, SummerSlam and the Survivor Series. I couldn't tell you the last time I watch Smackdown and Rawvis the same show every week, so why watch.

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  64. Yep, it was

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  65. My first wrestling memory was 1986 (I was 4). The local news did a story on Bundy breaking Hogan's ribs.

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  66. Battle Kat LitterApril 30, 2015 at 9:22 AM

    Billy Jerk Haynes

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  67. This dude gets points for creativity. http://www.myfoxdc.com/story/28879942/prom-proposal-bombs

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  68. Where online did you ever read that? That match was universally panned the moment it happened.

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  69. Few wrestlers were as overrated as Douglas turned out to be. Hyatte once described him as "the worst wrestler possible given his level of experience and credibility". Looking back at his ECW run, it was clear he was just getting over by swearing (it easily worked- swearing was REALLY rare from a wrestler in the early '90s, and here was this guy tossing the word "fuck" around CONSTANTLY), and then wrestling 20-30 minute "epics" that were a lot of plodding brawling and meandering finishes.

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  70. He had plenty of good matches, but almost none after mid-97, I don't know why tho. But his work before entering WWF was good and he was great in 1996, literally great.

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  71. It had to be RSPW, given the year and what I was regularly checking out at the time.

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  72. Yeah didn't read RSPW but that match was crucified by Micasa, Online Onslaughts, Herb Kuntz the night after Barely Legal. I know he wasn't the most consistent wrestler in the 90s but Shane had plenty of good matches back then and even a few great ones. I know wouldn't want to be remembered for my worst night.

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  73. But he was still going at least through October 2002: http://slashwrestling.com/raw/021028.html

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  74. Mine is Orndorff turning on Hulk. Though, come to think of it, I think I remember Mania 2 hype on Entertainment Tonight, possibly on the night-of.

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  75. Yeah that's not far off from me. I missed most of 09 and 2010; Rick got me back in enough in 2011 to watch the Rumble and Mania (then Mania the next year), and I watched the past two Manias and the ppvs that have aired during the Network free months. What sucks is that for years I could say I didn't watch the new stuff anymore; only my old videos, but that's not entirely true anymore. Hrumpf.

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  76. Aside from the Clique, who was really good enough to have top spots back then? Undertaker and the Harts and they did. In reading the old Raw reviews I don't get how Scott can talk about how boring the show is and how shitty the roster is and then say that the Clique were only in the top storylines because of politics or whatever. If the roster is shitty why shouldn't the best guys be the top guys?

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  77. "You people?!" What do you mean, "you people?"

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  78. The emailer must have never visited my site again after I gimmicked the site to go dark for a week after Bisch showed up. (Hey, you could visit it right now!) Man, were people in a tizzy! http://the-w.com/good-night

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  79. Interesting... who'd be going over in a Jesus vs Hogan match?


    I really can't see that limelight-hogging, egotistical, miracle comeback making, semi-deity with the delusional fanbase laying down for [insert god-like goblin of choice]

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  80. My first wrestling memory is the 1975 Johnny Valentine/Ric Flair plane crash. I started watching wrestling regularly in late 1975/early 1976 and watched Mid-Atlantic/GCW/JCP/WCW and WW[W]F on antenna from then until 1999 (with the exception of the WWF during 1983 and 1984). I stopped watching the WWF after Owen's death and quit watching WCW late in the year. After that I would come back to wrestling on occasion (Invasion until about 2004 and later the Summer of Punk until Wrestlemania 30). The only wrestling I've watched since then whatever old school Pacific Northwest and Continental/Southeast that I can find.

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  81. Haha! Yeah I never got the appeal of him. His character was wearing Oregon colors and a homeless dude's hat.

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  82. Lemmy wins because, to borrow a phrase from the cinematic classic, "Airheads", "Lemmy is god."

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  83. Shane's only seen as a shitty worker because he spent too much time working garbage brawls in ECW and never had to develop as a wrestler. Had he worked WWF or WCW longer, I think he would've been just fine. It's not like his tag matches with Steamboat were Douglas sitting on the apron for 30 minutes while Steamboat did everything. He could go early in his career and then covered for his injuries with a lot of profanity later in his career.

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  84. It actually wouldn't be the worst basis for a feud, two guys battling to prove they have the superior version of a move, and it's super hard to hit because both guys know how to get out of it. AJ Styles and Jimmy Rave did that with the Styles Clash in ROH. They could have had Rollins start doing the RKO and had him work an angle like that with Orton. It would be the perfect move since there are so many ways to hit and escape it.

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  85. Benoit almost did it for me to, but I came back in late 2009. More recently I haven't watched a drop drop since Wrestlemania 31. Triple H going over Sting hammered it home for me what we'd already seen with Bryan, Ryder, Ziggler etc. They're writing Stories for an audience of three people.

    I can't be bothered to wait for it to get better.

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  86. "They're running out of you, pal!"

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  87. I'm starting to figure out that I love wrestling but I don't love WWE. They'll throw me a bone once and a while, but it never leads anywhere. I went to my first indy show a month or so ago, and I loved it. Going to another one on May 9th, and I'm super excited. Chris Hero and Justin Gabriel will be on the card!

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  88. I"m not totally in your boat, but I'm close. I don't buy the network, and the only show I really watch is Raw, and most weeks now I'm not because I'm hanging out with the gf. I come here to catch up on what's going on, and I think the BOD is a pretty cool community, but wow the apathy level is really high right now on WWE.

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  89. He kinda looks like Savage. Maybe he's forgetting he isn't him.

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  90. They could bring back Chris Masters!

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  91. I've never really enjoyed any of the WWE events I've been to (although I've only been to TV tapings, I hear house shows are better), but I've never had a bad time at any of the countless indie shows I've been to. When RoH was at their awesomest around 2007 I went to an average of a show and a half every month.

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  92. truth is Shane Douglas had a College Degree and was respected by Ricky Steamboat... so Shawn Michaels hated him and made a point to fuck with Douglas every chance he got once, especially once he knew he was going to be dropping the IC title to him instead of Waltman


    Nash still likes to tell the story in his crappy shoots about them getting Yokozuna to put down Douglas... once... on a tour bus in Europe


    why wouldn't the guy be pissed of? the Clique literally cost him millions of dollars in a high profile spot and all they cared about was flashing secret hand signals and becoming drunken wrecks in every town... the one time Nash wasn't there Michaels got his ass kicked...

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  93. "they said you're their best seller"

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  94. Not it really wasn't bad from that aspect at all. At least it was a reason for them to fight

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  95. When Vince thinks you are too crazy to work with then you are insane. His shoot proves Vince correct.

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  96. You have a funny way of spelling awesome. . .

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