Monday, April 6, 2015

Lesnar: best ever businessman in This Business?

Hey Scott,

Is Brock Lesnar the smartest businessman in the history of the industry? Given his current payouts, the way he's always done whatever the hell he want, I think it's a given. Even when it's not been especially good for business (New Japan) he's held the main title and gone over. The argument is made that Lesnar would lay down for anyone, yet he rarely does.

Best,
Ioan Morris

I still feel like Hogan is, for maintaining that level of money day in and day out for nearly a decade even when all he had to offer was smoke and mirrors.  Brock made some really dumb business decisions for a while there, whereas Hulk would still be a multimillionaire many times over if not for his divorce and assorted lawsuit issues.  Hulk managed to convince WCW to pay him 25% of PPVs that he wasn't even on!  You have to respect that a little.  

204 comments:

  1. Brutus might be even better - he got money from Hogan without having to draw or be any good.

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  2. The gate will be from Big Steph main eventing the biggest mania ever. Omg I hate life

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  3. I'm guessing if they are trying to do 100,000 tickets, it's an "all hands on deck" type thing. They'll drag everyone out for it.


    I think they'll need Austin, too. He's so popular in Texas he got cheered over Rocky at X-7 despite the fact that he turned heel and shook hands with Vince.

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  4. Probably the minority, but I don't really care to see a real fighter pretend to fight, much less vs Stephanie McMahon.

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  5. You sell televisions. You can't call business decisions dumb.

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  6. Both Brock and Hogan earned their money. Hogan was the biggest draw and biggest name in wrestling basically ever. By the late 90s he was awful but screw it, he earned the right to ask for whatever he wanted. Brock won the UFC heavyweight title. He has lifelong legitimacy in the world of wrestling and just by existing is something completely different than anyone else they can trot out there. He earned his money and the right to make crazy demands too.

    The best businessman is someone who stayed employed and drawing an outsized paycheck for doing nothing but existing for an exceptionally long period of time. I'm looking at Michael Hayes who I'm pretty sure is STILL drawing a paycheck somehow. Or Chavo Guerrero who's made millions despite never being as interesting as any of the family members he leeched heat off of. Or even Big Show and Mark Henry who have made tens of millions over the past 20 years despite being over for maybe 4 years combined between them.

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  7. No problem with this. Summerslam is our Wrestlemania now as far as fresh, big match ups we want to see.

    If bringing Rock and Rousy in makes enough money to cover them being able to test big matches with newish guys a la Cena-Bryan, Reigns-Orton or Rollins-Ambrose than by all means, they should go ahead.

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  8. Yeah, it's still Hogan by a galaxy. While Brock has had a great few years, lets factor in a very desperate Vince McMahon using money as a band-aid for his booking issues.

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  9. If it's just Ronda beating on Stephanie it's cool but the problem we are getting to is that it takes Ronda less than a minute to dispense with the top 5 ranked female fighters in the world. She would murder a 40 year old heiress with her bare hands.

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  10. Honorable mention: Nash

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  11. It's Bobby the Brain Heenan by a longshot. He sold Andre the Giant's contract to Ted DiBiase for $1million and bought it back for $100K! And then led him to a tag-team title. PROFIT!

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  12. Isn't Nash the king?

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  13. Basically take the list of those who made/saved/invested the most and those are the most successful. The Rock has to be mentioned too right? He used his fame in wrestling to launch a movie career that netted him tens of millions

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  14. Yeah well Big Steph will just get even bigger. It will be nauseating. I like Stephanie as a character, but come on.

    The reason why they don't have draws anymore is because their most dominant character is not actually a wrestler.

    What I would give for the authority figures to just disappear.

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  15. After 2013, I have no desire to ever see Rock wrestle again.

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  16. I've said it before, but the whole texas angle for Austin, HBK and UT is overplayed. It's not like it's a territory and these guys are truly coming home. They're draws everywhere. Having said that, they can't and wont get to 100K ppl. I doubt they could get 100K to attend for free let alone with trying to turn a profit.

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  17. Thaddeus MountainApril 6, 2015 at 1:01 PM

    Maybe Ronda will actually kill her?

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  18. Hogan getting 25% of PPV's he wasn't on is SO WCW, I have to applaud that. Seriously was it really worth it for WCW to bring him in? Everything he gave them they paid back 10x over in the long run.

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  19. Gotta show love for the infamous Nash and Hall contracts, which essentially guaranteed that the two of them would be the highest-paid non-Hogans in WCW.

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  20. They'll use the STALE of doom.

    Steph is pushing 40, god i feel old

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  21. I agree with HBK, Taker, and JBL, but Austin is special. He's the Texas Rattlesnake, by God!

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  22. However you define businessman, tough to beat Hogan who convinced a (dumb) company in 2010 (!!!) to make him (and a few years later, his daughter) a major piece in a national wrestling promotion.


    Taker? A few matches/appearance a year for several years, long career at the top of the card (20+ years) but gimmick that allows for some time off (vs. Cena), lots of respect/power backstage, major star despite not (having to) be a major draw as champion (vs. Nash).



    Larry Z? One big angle with the biggest WWWF star seemingly (I do not know much about his wrestling career, so apologies if there were big money feuds I don't include), marries Verne's daughter and gets the title in the AWA, a decade with WCW, even a few appearances in TNA.


    And if I'm going to include Larry's marriage, have to include HHH (this-ah business-ah); also fits in with the emailer's "even when it's not especially good for business...[he's] gone over."

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  23. Listening to the Hulk Hogan podcast with Bill Simmons. This is an actual quote:

    "He was never the 500-lb Andre the Giant. We weighed him at the airport in Detroit before Wrestlemania and he was 650-something."


    650!!

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  24. The second to last line isn't true. Hogan received 25% of PPV revenue for shows he appeared on.

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  25. Mills Lane: .......... I'll allow it.

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  26. Honorable mention goes to Lanny Poffo, who was on WCW's payroll for years and I don't ever remember seeing him work once.

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  27. He is, but he's so over everywhere that I don't think the Texas angle matters much. In all seriousness, they should shell out money to a legendary cowboy to be an enforcer of some type. I think that'll move the needle on tickets more than trying to hype up wrestlers from Texas

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  28. The Rock wrestling is a good thing, Rock trying to manufacture a 30 minute classic is not.

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  29. Best face, Hogan.
    Best heel, Hogan.
    Best politician, Hogan.

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  30. As delusional as that guy is, I'm surprised it took a divorce to part him with his money. I would have thought he'd be more like Virgil these days.

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  31. I wouldn't mind if they went more unexpected and did Ronda vs. Triple H. Triple H would have to show ass for a woman but...it's fucking Ronda Rousey.

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  32. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogApril 6, 2015 at 1:20 PM

    Brock Lesnar?

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  33. It'd be amazing if the divorce was a front for him losing assets so Nick's friend's family couldn't take them from the accident.

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  34. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogApril 6, 2015 at 1:21 PM

    Austin as Enforcer for Rock vs HHH, if not WM host too.

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  35. At that point I would have to acknowledge Hogan as the smartest man ever.

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  36. I still can't believe he allowed himself to get taken like 80-20 when one of the two kids was an adult when they got divorce.

    If he didn't give his attorney the big boot and three leg drops I'd be surprised.

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  37. We need to set an over/under for total number of full time guys getting a match on the actual PPV portion of the show. I'm thinking an over/under at 9 is good number. Undertaker, Hunter, Rock, Brock... all of them will have matches. What if they drag Shawn out of retirement? or Austin? Or Sting again? WrestleMania 32 might as well be a paid vacation for the full time roster, sans Cena, Orton, and Reigns.

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  38. I would laugh if that's how people were referred to in WCW. Non Hogans.

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  39. I was going to write a longer email about WWE wasting a year of booking and the Undertaker's streak, which, although I enjoyed the Mania main event ending, is absolutely ludicrous when you think about it.


    The thing I'd say with Hogan is that he may have been shit in-ring but surely he was still a draw, particularly in the NWO? Is there much evidence to suggest Lesnar's improving business? And yet I'd imagine his contract payouts are at least the same, if not more than, in 2012.

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  40. He's up there, but I think he loses points for bombing as Champ and not making a lot of money in his first WWF run.

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  41. WrestleMania sells, but at 100,000 seats... that's rough. They couldn't sell out this Mania with a 70,000 seat configuration.

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  42. The thought of the Authority storyline going on another year is just depressing. One year for Stephanie and HHH to get their comeuppance? Even the 2000 McMahon-Helmsley era only lasted about 6 months.
    I thought they were pushing it by continuing the Authority story after WM30. Then when the Shield beat Evolution, I thought it had to end there. When it didn't, I stopped watching and didn't come back until after Survivor Series when I assumed it had definitely ended. I stopped again after the Royal Rumble but watched Wrestlemania and post-WM Raw to see if anything was going to change. Sounds like there's not going to be much to stick around for until Summerslam.

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  43. Remember how we watched Rock vs. HHH dozens of times in their prime, well how great would it be to see that again now that they're older and rustier?!?!

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  44. He was available in case they needed a pre-match poem

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  45. Will we get an over-booked mess with run-ins from Evolution and the Nation of Domination? Would make as much sense as the n.w.o. helping Sting in the name of the company the n.w.o. tried killing themselves.

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  46. Also Hulk could of made even more money when the grill people called him and he didnt pick up the phone they went to option b which was George Foreman. Source of the story is Hulk Hogan of course so take it with a grain of salt lol.

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  47. They only "need" to sell 70-something thousand tickets for Cowboys Stadium. Most of this 100,000 attendance junk for Cowboys games are people paying for tickets to watch the games on giant screens outside the stadium. I repeat, THESE PEOPLE ARE PAYING MONEY TO NOT BE INSIDE THE STADIUM AND NOT ACTUALLY SEE THE SHOW.

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  48. I still feel like Hogan is, for maintaining that level of money day in and day out for nearly a decade even when all he had to offer was smoke and mirrors.

    Um okay.

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  49. Fuck that "should Bray start looking for a new career?" bullshit. Being a midcard WWE wrestler is a hell of s gig. Pays more than I make.

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  50. The NWO run in would have made sense if they'd been wearing the popular red and black Wolfpac gear.
    Really, Sting's back up crew should have been Paul Orndorff, El Gigante, and the Junkyard Dog's daughter.

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  51. the only person that got hosed more than Hulk on a divorce settlement was Paul McCartney. That shrew fucked Hulk over big time.

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  52. and she was already fucking some 18 year old kid. For some reason him getting screwed in that divorce really drives me nuts.

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  53. best heel motion you can make to let them know you are smarter.

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  54. Yeah totally agree with the below comment. Where does this 100,000 ticket number come from? Met-Life Stadium is comparable and drew like 80K and change for WM29. The damn stage depending on size can eliminate 1/5th to 1/6th of possible seating right there.

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  55. I was amazed at how "little" bank cash was listed in the settlement. It was a little over $10 million but based on his 80's earnings and with the amount WCW was paying, I assumed he had to have over $25-35 million as least.

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  56. Based on your initial question it doesn't really matter if anyone drew or not - just who's the best businessman. I don't think arguing for Lesnar is out of bounds - he works limited dates and gets paid handsomely do to so. One metric really would just be figuring who made the most money for the least amount of effort - that's really how to decide who the best/smartest is.

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  57. I think Bret's 2nd WCW contract at 3 mil per was more.

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  58. it was all worth it so he could get his win back against Warrior damn it!

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  59. No Harley race was and then the macho man I think. Nash just had nice hair and wore a black glove.

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  60. If Godfather, D'Lo and Mark Henry come down to help Rock, I'm fucking jumping out of my seat, man.

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  61. I have to agree with Scott here. In "Death of WCW," they openly state that Hogan may well be "the most brilliant backstage politician the business has ever known." Hell, that "Monday Night War" series has guys openly talking about how Hogan played Bischoff like a fiddle to keep himself on top and he did the same conning TNA into thinking he would take them to WWE heights in just a few months. Say what else but the guy plays the game better than most.

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  62. The mets are still paying Bobby Bonilla 1 million a year for the next 10 years and he was getting those checks starting with his retirement in '01. 25 years 25 mill paid out. not bad for bobby bo

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  63. I feel that conning WCW and TNA is an easier proposition than conning Vince.

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  64. also after losing money he plants a sex tape to help earn a few quick easy bucks, all while getting to show off his favorite man thong.

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  65. That stadium could easily get 100K plus in it that's why. There is a lot of standing room, etc. Having said that, I can't see any feasible way for them to hit that # unless the product improves vastly and people have a reason to go - which in a year isn't likely to happen.

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  66. I'd say the main difference is that Hogan gave the best years of his life to wrestling and worked more hours in the 1980s than Cena does currently (both in the ring and outside). You hear all the wrestlers talk about how important it is to "respect this business". Clearly Hogan paid his dues in their eyes.

    By contrast, Lesnar was recruited by WWE and he got paid more in OVW than some of the wrestlers were making on the main roster. After wrestling for less than 2 years full time, he came back 8 years later and since then he's been paid seven figures a year to work three matches and stand behind Heyman on various episodes of Raw. Whether he's earned it or not (I'd say he has because WWE is willing to pay him what he wants), I'd say that's better business. Also I don't see Lesnar having the same physical problems that Hogan has in his 50s/60s.

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  67. As cold and stale as the product has seemed in recent years, Wrestlemania itself seems bigger than ever. The days leading up to the event had coverage on major websites, TV and radio. And the results were plastered everywhere when the show was over.

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  68. Shouldn't the amount you take home be reflecting your ability to draw? It's not like business has improved with Lesnar on top (though it's hard to tell these days with the Network).

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  69. except unlike Hogan and Trips Flair pissed every red cent he earned living his kayfabe persona outside the ring. Luger said when he joined the Horsemen he was no longer riding in a car to the next venue he was flying first class on flairs dime and staying in pent house suites and what not. Hahaha this guy has robbed Peter to pay Paul more times than anyone in the history of the business.

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  70. Has it been discussed that they edited HHH's entrance so that you don't see the assistants handing him the Terminator skulls?

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  71. Ha nice. Yeah the kids def sided with their old man. When did Hulk marry her? was it before he was rich? bc he should of pre nupped this bitch before ever marrying her.

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  72. They did 108,000 + for the 2010 NBA All Star Game...

    https://mediaoutrage.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/stadium.jpg



    You know Vince would love to beat that.


    I just hope we're not in for a repeat of WM7. "Join over one hundred thousand screaming fans..."

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  73. I dunno man. Either way, agreed that short of McMahon coaxing Austin back with the payout of a lifetime no way they hit 100K. Even then there's no guarantee. That BS Silverdome number aside, I don't believe the WWE has ever even hit 90K anywhere right?

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  74. I think it was 10% off the top for PPVs he was on... because it was 1% more than the old deals Flair used to have in the NWA where the champ would get 9% of the gate.

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  75. SummerSlam at Wembley is their legit top number, at around 82,000.

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  76. Maybe so but the original question was who's the best/smartest businessman, not the best draw. I think the answer to best/smartest is who made the most $ with the least effort/dates (theoretically freeing one up to do other ventures which could earn more money). A guy like Nash for instance isn't exactly known/beloved by fans for his matches (unfairly I think but that's a different argument) but he's earned a lot, invested wisely and by all accounts is very well set for life. Better off being him or say, Flair who drew well, widely consider great but ultimately is broke and has nothing to show for his efforts?

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  77. El Gigante's dead, too. Sub him out for Robocop. Both moved at the same speed.

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  78. Or in the event that an ultimate frisbee game broke out.

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  79. Charismatic eNegro Jef VinsonApril 6, 2015 at 2:06 PM

    Yep. I heard that as well.

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  80. Not sure really - I don't follow their financials all that closely, but I just find it hard to believe they could get 100K people to show up for anything they'd sponsor right now. First of all, in-home viewing has become so much better and higher quality that it's cheaper and easier to watch from the comfort of home. If this was say 1999 and you had Steve Austin at the height of his powers and less access to PPVs, etc then I could see getting 100K people to come watch him battle vince or something like that. Today - just don't see them even coming close but who knows, stranger things have happened.

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  81. blahblahblahblah5April 6, 2015 at 2:06 PM

    I guess it's out of the question to make some new stars to sell out the building rather than rely on... oh nevermind

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  82. I really have no desire to ever see Rock in another singles matches. At this point, he's injury-prone, has poor cardio, and has had a few stinkers. Plus, 99% of his promos now are "you're gay".

    A mixed tag would be a MUCH better use of both him and Rousey.

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  83. And WM can still deliver even in lean years, as evidenced by 19-20 and 30-31

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  84. I don't know what's wrong with marquee tag matches anymore. Taker and Sting vs. The Wyatt Family would have been a way better use of the old guys.

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  85. Charismatic eNegro Jef VinsonApril 6, 2015 at 2:08 PM

    I don't know about that. If you saw the special they ran on Spike they bounced on him and went to LA when he was begging his doctor to let him work a tag match with Abyss in TNA.


    Once he got stable they came back.

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  86. It's true. Bret, Shawn, Austin and others never went on the Today Show after Mania.

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  87. Charismatic eNegro Jef VinsonApril 6, 2015 at 2:09 PM

    According to his book it was when he started to blow up in the AWA around the time he did the Rocky movie.

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  88. Burt Macklin, FBIApril 6, 2015 at 2:10 PM

    If we're talking smartest business man in THIS BUSINESS then Hogan has to bow down to the King.

    Hogan lost a ton of money in his divorce. HHH is high up in the company itself and is helping run his own blossoming promotion. And he made like 2 mil for 4 matches last year. HHH is pretty smart. From Terra Ryzing to an executive in the company.

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  89. And you could believably put Steph and Ronda in there; have Hunter promise he won't tag out so she won't see Ronda, HHH/Rock battle, Steph tags out every time Ronda tags in, build to the final hot tag where Rock takes care of Hunter and leaves Steph with no where to run, instant armbar to insane pop.

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  90. I feel like its possible that you reply to things negatively and with little in the way of actual personal opinion or thought in order to elicit a negative response.

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  91. It is pretty cool to see Mania treated as a legit major thing even though WWE is no longer as popular as it was.

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  92. blahblahblahblah5April 6, 2015 at 2:13 PM

    Big Steph needs to get her offense in though.

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  93. Dude, 100K people would show up at a hefty price just to watch him apply Just for Men to his beard in the middle of the ring. So that's really not fair, I didn't know we we're considering Chuck Norris too...

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  94. Give credit to Lanny Poffo who got himself a six-figure salary with WCW to sit home for 4 years.

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  95. Come on Scott, like those midcard guys would ever see that money.

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  96. Sting's back up should have been Flair, DDP, and Booker. Couldve substituted Steiner for Flair too if you want some real fun...

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  97. Austin vs. HBK, Rock/Rousey vs. HHH/Steph, Bryan vs. Brock, Taker vs. Sting, Cena vs. Reigns would top my dream WM 32 card. So there is no way any of this will occur.

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  98. He saves all of his opinions for the circle jerk sesh somewhere else.

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  99. Hall and Nash agreed to waive that provision for WCW to chase Bret Hart. Or so it said in one of those books.

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  100. I would say either Lanny Poffo or Hulk as well.....but then again, its probably Hulk's wife - she made off with Hulk's money without taking ONE bump! (or possibly Ricky Steamboat's for trademarking his name......which reminds me, how the hell has Jennie Clark not gotten super rich for coming up with "Stone Cold Steve Austin"????)

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  101. True, but you forget one point: they owed him $25,000......I wouldn't have given the belt back either!

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  102. The answer is and always will be HHH.


    Hulk Hogan at the end of the day was still HULK FUCKING HOGAN.

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  103. And the crazy part about it: has anybody LOOKED at Linda? She's BUTT UGLY! My God.

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  104. My favorite story Nash ever told was when he and Hall originally signed with WCW it was letters of intent, so they weren't set in stone. JR comes on WWF television and claims Razor and Diesel are coming back so WCW and Turner panic and double (I think) the money. LOL. Also they put a clause in that if anyone was signed to more money than they were, they would automatically get a raise to make more.


    Fucking genius. The difference between Hogan and Nash is Hogan worked a lot harder than Nash did to get that money.

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  105. One that wont get much mention also would be Jerry Lawler.....he wrestled for 4-5 years, then Jerry Jarrett basically GAVE him half the company!

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  106. If I was an pro athlete, I'd be looking night and day for whoever that agent is.

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  107. Are we just talking wrestling?
    If not, then definitely the Silna Brothers....hard to beat $200 million (and counting) for owning a team that hasnt played since 1976. http://articles.latimes.com/2006/jul/31/sports/sp-aba31

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  108. I actually would love to see the NOD come in to help the Rock

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  109. Nah I would say Rick Steiner, Missy Hyatt, and Eddie Gilbert....wait - damnit. Eddie's dead. n/m

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  110. For 100,000, that is going to be tough for anything short of the Von Erichs re-incarnated......and I BET they will have Kevin involved somehow

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  111. You would think this would be obvious......but what makes it worse, is TNA not only being too stupid to realize it, but copying line-for-line what WWE does on their show - including the heel authority figures. Thats why they will never be relevant.

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  112. Over. Between the Andre the Giant Battle Royal and probably another ladder match.

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  113. That is how I remember it as well. Something like he was guaranteed $600,000 or 25% of the PPV revenue, whichever was greater. But this only applied to PPVs he appeared on. Which is why there are so many where he is nowhere to be seen.

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  114. Man, I want to see Rock-HHH one on one for a change, with an actual finish.

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  115. Wrestling has a bigger appeal in Texas than in Nor Cal.

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  116. Maybe they can pay for George Strait to play a half hour show in the middle of Mania, he's a proven Texas draw.

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  117. Remember when Scott bashed Hogan, HBK, and Bikertaker for being in the exact same position?


    Pepperidge Farm remembers.

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  118. My favorite part of NBA TV negotiations is that every few years when this comes up, Stern (or Silver now) always tries to throw more and more lump sum money to try and get out from under that deal. And obviously they say no every time. I think Silver offered them something ridiculous like 3 billion during the last set of negotiations.

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  119. What is This Business?

    If we stretch the definition a bit, then the answer os obviously Floyd Mayweather.

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  120. Brock didn't have the benefit that Hogan had of being able to negotiate with the incompetent fools at WCW. Just imagine what Brock could've fleeced them for...

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  121. He's the Verne Gagne of boxing for sure; promoter and champion.

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  122. In fairness, her on-screen character is awesome. She killed it at WrestleMania. It's not her fault no one else, save for Paul Heyman, can draw as much heat as her.

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  123. I can't wait until the newz sites report stuff like "Steve Austin's Roll at WrestleMania Revealed!" in November, only to find out he's not showing up to the show.

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  124. In all fairness, I think McMahon and his cronies have proven themselves to be quite incompetent in many areas in recent years.

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  125. As long as the title match main event has someone from the current generation than I'm OK with all the other fluff. Of course they did that this year and everyone shit on the guy they put in the main event (granted the shitting was deserved for who they choose and why). But they really need to start building up their future roster or they won't have any nostalgic acts to sell out houses in 10 years.


    Just a quick gander at 31 and nearly every old person went over.


    - Big Show won the ARMBR; I wasn't as angry about this one as some but it was the first of an on going theme for the evening


    - Orton beat Rollins clean; dumb, I don't care if it creates title matches for Rollins, Orton goes over too much and frankly I don't want him near the main event anyway; HHH would have convinced Vince why he needed to go over, if he was in Rollins position, as he done many times in the past


    - HHH beat Sting (yes Sting is old in age but he's new to WWE; he lost his first match


    - Cena beat Rusev clean; I'm one of the people that had no problem with this one Cena winning this one but I can also see where others are coming from who think Rusev needed the win more. Plus it added to the aforementioned theme


    - Taker beat Bray; I'm one that believes that Bray needed this far more than Taker; the streaks dead; 22-1 doesn't mean much; plus I like the story line of Taker on a losing streak going into his last match where he goes out on top


    - Rollins cashes in; so two young guys ended up being involved in this one which is good; and the one instance that the old guy did not go over; it was the right call, though Rollins losing clean earlier makes him look like a chump champion coming out of the box; he better get his win back against Orton at Extreme Rules, if that is even the main they are going with


    I'll also point out that the tag match was all young guys (the first match of the pre-show) and the ladder match was mostly young guys (sans maybe R-Truth; Bryan has been wrestling for a long time but he's still young in the WWE, same goes for Harper) and it was the opening match. Which goes to show you where the WWE thinks their current talent belongs.


    Clearly based on the early predictions of the 32 card their thoughts have not changed. Now with that being said I will contradict myself somewhat in saying that I am all for a Stone Cold match at 32. Not just because he's from Texas (though that does factor in) but because he's Fucking Stone Cold Steve Austin. Hopefully whatever rift between him and Vince is fixed before next year. I really think they need Stone Cold wrestling to save this show. If he's even up for it. He hasn't had a match in 11 years, 12 by the time 32 rolls around.

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  126. Hey until 1998 when the wheels started to come off, WCW got more out of their investment in Hogan than they probably anticipated. Hogan made them relevant in 1994 and then #1 in 1996.

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  127. What kind of roll will it be? Are we talking hamburger or Kaiser?

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  128. At some point they'll run out of part-timers and then it will be up to the Bray Wyatts of the world to fill up those stadiums.

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  129. That mixed tag match sounds awful. Of course it would draw huge because there's so many dense marks in the world, but I hope we're treated with a better main event than that. I wouldn't mind seeing Ronda destroy Stephanie, but Rock vs HHH in 2016?

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  130. There's really no better way to kill morale than to use the WWE's current model. Guys that bust their ass 365 days of the year are largely sidelined for the biggest show of the year for guys who work 1-3 matches tops. Just isn't right.

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  131. I thought Rousey was under contract to UFC for at least two more years?

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  132. C'mon man, people will pay big money to see the Big Show, Cena, and Orton!

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  133. To save anyone the time that is always unsure now, as I am, and thus always has to check: this is real Dougie, not the fake one.

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  134. Haku! Duggan!

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  135. Harlan Leverage IIIApril 6, 2015 at 3:51 PM

    I give credit to Randy Savage for getting his brother a six-figure salary.

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  136. That makes sense, but that doesn't leave Steph looking strong!

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  137. Well, the ARMBAR might be back on the pre-show for no reason.

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  138. That won't cut the mustard. He has to work a match.

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  139. Nothing wrong with part timers getting Mania paydays if it makes money but where does that leave them 10 years from now? I'd be ok with it if they didn't book everyone like losers for the other 364 days of the year.

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  140. Stupid autocorrect.

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  141. And Flair would naturally turn on him. lol. I can't believe they had Sting and Flair in the same building at Wrestlemania and we didn't get a chop, no sell, apron walk, slam spot. That's the biggest travesty of all.

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  142. More like Lesnar is the most gifted athlete the industry has ever seen. A lot of guys have been strong, a lot of guys have been fast and could wrestle well in the ring. Lesnar has all of these so any promotion is going to put him at the top. Hogan wasn't really anything special athletically just a great talker so he wins that debate.

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  143. Three and she just signed the deal recently.

    Unless she gets bored with her arm removal business and retires from MMA (which still may not free her up), she is not competing at WM32.

    "Ronda Rousey is coming to pro wrestling" is an even dumber rumor than "Brock Lesnar's taking his leaky guts and concussions back to a UFC that has evolved and left him behind."

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  144. Exactly. But I'd say they're in trouble a mere 5 years from now not 10. How in the world do you sell out a stadium without any of the following: HBK, Brock, Rock, Taker, Austin, Foley. All of them will be done for good IMO. Special attraction Cena vs. Stardust? Special attraction Edge vs. Ryback?

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  145. Andrew BarbarashApril 6, 2015 at 4:32 PM

    I'd put Lesnar above Hogan, he has earn't more money for less work in pro wrestling than anyone in history (past, present or likely future). Hogan still had to WORK some of the time, be it the house show circuit, promoting the company etc.. Lesnar gets to sit on his ranch and fuck Sable for about 350 days a year.The other 15 or so stand behind Heyman looking menacing and Suplex city some bitches for 20 mins three to four times a year. It's the deal of all deals! Hogan is certainly up there, but Lesnar earns MILLIONS barely breaking a sweat and still has the WWE by the balls. That my friend is the real American Dream :D

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  146. "Ween" Dean AndrewsApril 6, 2015 at 4:34 PM

    Scott is right. Bray will probably get a push around Halloween Havoc or maybe Starrcade. Best the established guys like Hogan and Sting get all the camera time on the biggest show of the year.

    Failing that he could just jump to the WWF and be a surprise Royal Rumb....

    Waitaminute

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  147. "Ween" Dean AndrewsApril 6, 2015 at 4:35 PM

    I suspect / hope this is what Scott is intelligently implying, the comparison.

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  148. I'd rather have HBK vs Bryan and Austin vs Cena, personally. Then plug Reigns in against Rollins.

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  149. I think I agree with this. Lesnar carries a legitimacy that any wrestling promoter in history would kill for, which means you have to grade his business skills on something of a curve.

    I've told this story before, but a close family friend of mine is a former college wrestling coach who also was a gold medal favorite in his weight class before the US boycotted the 1980 Olympics.

    He told me when Lesnar was a college junior that Lesnar would be WWF champion someday soon. He had no info that Lesnar wanted to be a pro wrestler or anything. But he told me this dude had no desire to wrestle internationally and was a natural showman. When I saw him in person, I immediately knew what he meant.

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  150. Most gifted athlete? Apparently you have never seen the size of the Big Shows hands in person.

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  151. It's not Lesnar.


    He would not be known as some shrewd "businessman" if he hadn't found success in the UFC. Like the Rock, Lesnar gets paid because he's actually worth something outside of wrestling.


    Hogan HAS to be in the conversation here, and you could probably make a pretty good case for Hall and Nash too.

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  152. The man is a genius!

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  153. HHH has to work though so he loses. Hall, Nash, and Lesnar made millions doing almost nothing. Hall stopped showing up in the end and Lesnar barely shows up. It's a tie between Hall and Lesnar.

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  154. Honky Tonk told a funny story of one of the Armstrong's doing the same.

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  155. "Make this man a deal."

    -- Ted Turner.

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  156. The moment I heard it was going to Texas Stadium, I only started to imagine the tricks Vince would have to pull out of his jacket to fill that place. We might see Steph/HHH and Vince vs Rousey/Rock and Sock.

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  157. Don't forget he also talked Andre into that Hogan match in the first place.

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  158. Funny how people are assuming Hulk Hogan is broke after the divorce. Yes, he got cleaned out pretty badly but he's still a multi-millionaire who is not hurting for money.


    Hogan, Nash, HHH, Brock, and Rock strike me as the ones who know their true earning potential and won't settle for less.


    Mid-tier guys would be HBK, Edge, CM Punk, Austin, DDP, Goldberg Foley, and Jericho. None are dependent on the WWE, are able to make a living outside the business and were able to leave on their terms.


    The biggest loser would be Flair

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  159. Hall and Nash were just in the right place at the right time...to an all time extent.

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  160. SharksA'sRaidersApril 6, 2015 at 5:23 PM

    Hulk is still making money and he hasn't taken a meaningful bump in a match since.....2003? I'll never forget CM Punk's quote in the Colt podcast about "throwing my body at the ground for a living." That's such a perfect description of the business. Beyond the cash payouts, Hulk also came out 'ahead' of his wrestling colleagues by not destroying his body night in and night out.

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  161. Flair in his prime probably had the best life out of all of them, though. To be fair.

    I respect DDP the most. He was this ugly guy that started wrestling in his mid 30's and got nothing from the WWE once WCW folded.

    He's not only done well for himself outside of wrestling, but has helped countless people. Plus he bagged Kimberly. I have to respect that.

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  162. The key to Brock' business acumen is being smartened up by a Prime Paul Heyman as his career began. So while Brock isn't as natural a businessman as Hogan or Ultimate Warrior, he had an unprecedented advisor. If Paul Heyman had Brock Lesnar's body, he would be the wrestling equivalent (money-wise) of Floyd Mayweather in terms of favorable deals.

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  163. Let's not all be so quick to call Nash a great businessman when he still works indies and does butt tons of autograph signings. Not that a shrewd businessman wouldn't continue to seek paydays but obviously he isnt set for life or anything.

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  164. Maybe he just wants to.

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  165. "Hulk managed to convince WCW to pay him 25% of PPVs that he wasn't even on!"

    http://images.rapgenius.com/a0fw7gppl3vf89k4ncfuoj34d.552x464x1.jpg

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  166. Hasn't the guy had numerous back, knee, and hip surgeries? I wouldn't say he hasn't destroyed his body.

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  167. How would you know how much Cena does or does not work?

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  168. Wasn't it Bret who said once that in the hey day that guys would come up and shake Hogan's hand just for making them so much money through default?

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  169. Yea I'm just glad somebody not named Michael Jordan got the better of David Stern in a business deal. I especially like the part that says "in perpetuity".....the deal will cost the NBA forever lol

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  170. People mentioned all the time in the 80s that it was great just to be on the same card as Hogan, because you'd make so much more money.

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  171. With all due respect, if you read what Scott wrote above, Hulk was making 25% of PPVs he wasnt even on. He wasnt even in the building and he was getting paid...

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  172. Ric Flair in the discussion for best ever businessman in wrestling is a fucking riot. At least he parlayed that into Ric Flair Mortgages or whatever the hell it was called...

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  173. He got him to put the title back on him at WM 9 and promptly took off to Japan with it....

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  174. And Vince was none too happy about it.

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  175. You really don't have to be an exceptionally great businessman to negotiate the kind of contract that Brock does. He has value due to his UFC career and since Vince loves him and big freakish-looking monsters so much, I can't imagine it would take very much to get the kind of deal he does.

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  176. I think Nash is set for life. He made a ton of money and by all accounts is pretty careful with it and I don't think he was involved in a messy divorce that resulted him losing most of his fortune.

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  177. No, Hogan always shook Bret's hand and with a tear in his eye would tell him that while Hogan was in the main event, Bret's match on the card was the real main event, brother!

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  178. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogApril 6, 2015 at 6:58 PM

    Rock vs. HHH is a perfectly fine exhibition/special attraction, but I hope they don't think it's a viable main event that's going to sell out 100k seats

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  179. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogApril 6, 2015 at 6:58 PM

    To have a chance at filling that place? Probably so.

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  180. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogApril 6, 2015 at 6:59 PM

    To me, that would be the motivation for Austin as Enforcer. He's the one guy with big time history with both Rock and HHH and would be the one guy who could call it down the middle.

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  181. Hall and Nash were in the right place at the right time. You don't really have to be a good businessman to get what they had. Same with Brock - he has value outside of wrestling and McMahon has always been in love with him (he even once described him as the perfect prototype of what a pro wrestler/sports-entertainer should be), so it doesn't take much business acumen to get the kind of deal he does.

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  182. But it seems too much like Backlash, where Austin basically got all the shine for Rock's big win.

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  183. Brock also had a sweetheart deal with the UFC. One of the better contracts any UFC talent has had.

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  184. They did something similar for the NBA All Star Game, getting 108,713 there -- but I'm pretty sure they counted people outside as well. Plus about 22,000 tickets were free.

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  185. I have to assume Rock's life now is better than Flair's ever was. He's almost certainly got more money than Ric ever had at any one point.

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  186. I'm not aware of what his UFC contract exactly detailed, but I'm sure being a former main event pro wrestler (there was a lot of controversy bringing a former pro wrestler into the legitimate fighting world, and controversy equals cash) and having one of the more impressive physiques had something to do with that. People really overestimate just how 'smart' one has to be to negotiate a good/great contract.

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  187. Crikey Mate Down Under AussieApril 6, 2015 at 7:20 PM

    Brock is a fake fighter pretending to be a real fighter pretending to fight.

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  188. I don't even agree Hogan was shit in the ring. Dude could go when he wanted and/or needed to.

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  189. Hulk was absolutely broke after his divorce. He was well into negative assets and it was a matter of public record. That being said, he recouped a ton of money from the TNA deal and his various public appearance and endorsements, because he's not a colossal fuckup like Ric Flair.

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  190. I'd respect it more if they hadn't divorced, but that is pluralistic secularism.

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  191. I've heard he received something for the other shows and just assumed it was the same. He's still a pretty smart guy even with only revenue from the shows he was on.

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  192. As much as a Hogan fan I can still be - does he really have any value outside of being part of the WWE machine now? I mean what value was he really for TNA? I never bothered looking up TNA promos of Hogan to watch - yet I have youtubed Hogan's WWE promos. Hogan could leave the WWE machine again and unless he was wrestling an indy or something, I'd probably would not look for anything that was modern Hogan.

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  193. If Hogan takes a vacation after Superbrawl, we may never get Goldberg as champion - but if he took a legit 1996 three month vacation - it would have done some good, but then again ...

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  194. Best job, to Brock Lesnar. Hogan actually took a top rope power bomb in that match.

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  195. The only source that claimed Hogan was nearly bankrupt was Hogan himself, who we all know isn't the most credible.

    Official accounts had Linda receiving 40% ownership Hulk's companies and 70% of liquid assets with an additional 3 million in a property settlement.


    Considering Hogan's net worth at the time was 35 million, that still leaves a few million to spare. I'm not sure what your definition of broke is.

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