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The SmarK Rant for Monday Night RAW–05.27.96

The SmarK Rant for Monday Night RAW – 05.27.96

Anyone have experience with the Amazon Fire TV? I know they don’t have WWE Network on it yet, but apparently it’s a lot more powerful than the Roku Streaming Stick that has been steadily flaking on me for the past year now and it’s not like I have any shortage of devices that can access the Network anyway. The other problem is that they don’t technically ship to Canada, but there’s ways around that as well.

Live (THANK GOD!) from Fayatteville, NC

Your hosts are Vince McMahon & Jerry Lawler

King of the Ring Qualifier: Goldust v. The Ultimate Warrior

Hopefully this will be better than their atrocity at In Your House. Vince throws me off yet again by noting that the tournament will happen on the “WWF Network” but in this case he was referring to this show and Superstars. Goldust runs away for the first minute , but Warrior hits him with a pair of atomic drops and Goldust bails. Back in, Warrior no-sells all of his offense and chases him out of the ring again. They fight on the floor and Warrior sends him into the post, which gets two. Vince claims that Warrior #1 is the highest-selling comic book in the world at that point. Given that it was pretty much impossible for any of the indy presses in 1996 to ship more comics than your average Batman or X-Men issue at that point, I would find that statement highly dubious. Plus Diamond sales figures were delayed by months. I mean, it would have been impressive to sell [x] number of copies or whatever, so why did it have to be “the #1 selling comic book in the world”? Goldust runs away again and we take a break as Ahmed Johnson chases him back to the ring again. Warrior misses a charge and Goldust dumps him to give us MORE stalling. Back in, Goldust works on the arm, but Warrior backdrops him for two. Warrior with a belly to belly for two as he’s loudly calling spots right on camera. Goldust takes him down for a neck vice as Vince notes how bad the officiating has been “lately”. Has he not been watching wrestling for the past 100 years?! Goldust goes to a lengthy chinlock, but Warrior powerslams him for two. Warrior makes the comeback and Goldust runs away yet again, with Warrior following this time for the world’s more boring double countout finish at 14:47. So both guys are tragically eliminated from the King of the Ring tournament. I guess this was slightly better than their first match? -* Jerry Lawler tries to attack Warrior with a chair, but gets nowhere, and that’s the kickoff of THEIR feud.

Meanwhile, Ted Dibiase is so confident in Steve Austin that he’ll leave the WWF if Austin can’t beat Savio Vega at Beware of Dog II.

The Smoking Gunns v. The Bodydonnas

For those keeping track, the idea is now supposed to be that the Gunns are heels with Sunny as manager and the Bodydonnas are now babyfaces, but this was all so poorly executed that fans continue giving them the reverse reactions. The Gunns dominate Zip with power moves and Skip comes in for some nice reversals with Billy as we take a break. Back with Zip apparently saying “fuck it” and going heel again with a low bridge on Bart to take over, and Skip gets a legdrop for two. Zip with a Doctorbomb for two. Skip with an elbow for two as the Godwinns come out to confront Sunny as the long beating on Bart continues. Billy comes in and gets double-teamed, and the Donnas hit Bart with a slingshot suplex, but Skip tries a flying bodypress and Bart rolls through for the pin at 11:37. The heel Gunns ended up being an effective act, but this wasn’t a good start for it. **

King of the Ring Qualifier: Ahmed Johnson v. The Man They Call Vader

Slugfest to start and Ahmed beats the hell out of Vader in the corner as the crowd goes BATSHIT for him. Finally Vader pokes him in the eyes to escape and returns fire with his own beating, but Ahmed clotheslines him out of the corner and takes him to the floor with a Cactus Clothesline. Cornette finally whacks him with the tennis racket to slow him down, but Ahmed shrugs it off and we take a break. Back with Vader going to the middle rope with a splash for two. They slug it out again in the corner and Vader hits him with a corner splash, but Ahmed suplexes him. Vader puts him down again and goes up for the Vadersault, but it misses and Ahmed makes the comeback with clotheslines. Powerslam and Ahmed hauls Cornette in for a beating, but a disgusted Owen Hart runs in from the commentary table and nails Ahmed with his arm cast, giving Vader the win at 11:00. That arm took the better part of a year to heal! Really fun match with Vader happy to let Ahmed lay into him as hard as he wanted. ***

Meanwhile, the doctors haul Ahmed to the back on a stretcher, but Goldust intercepts it and gives him mouth-to-mouth. A horrified Ahmed wakes up with gold paint on his lips and kills the first fool who gets in his way, in this case Bob Holly. He drives some poor geek through Goldust’s dressing room door, takes out the cameraman, and then stalks off to end the show. That was a GREAT angle and made me want to see Ahmed destroy Goldust and get his revenge. Which he did.

The Pulse

Really solid live show aside from whoever had the brilliant idea of having Warrior go 15:00 with Goldust.

Comments

  1. If only Cowbow Bob Orton had a doctor as good as Owen's.

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  2. Amazon Fire Stick does have WWE network. In my experience, the Fire Stick apps look cooler in terms of layout but are can be laggy in terms of navigation especially HBO Go.

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  3. Owen Hart was courageous to keep working through that injury.

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  4. I know a lot of angles haven't aged very well in 20 years and we often say that certain angles would NEVER fly today they way they did back then. It's very safe to say the Goldust/Ahmed angle is one of those.

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  5. It felt like the Gunns had a really long run as heels, but in hindsight they were split by November, right? Seems like they could have drawn their act out longer if they had anything resembling a tag division at this point.

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  6. While the set up could never fly today, it would be nice if more wrestlers exhibited the anger and emotion like Ahmed did here. I guess that's why Brock's rampage on RAW a couple of weeks ago was such a welcome sight.

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  7. Yeah, I was fucking PSYCHED to see Ahmed beat the ever-loving shit out of Goldust after watching this. The "Aggressive Homosexual" is like a nightmare to homophobic teenagers, and just provides NUCLEAR heat.

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  8. I don't have a Fire TV Stick, but have been contemplating getting one as well. Largely because I read that you can sideload Android apps on it, such as NJPW World.

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  9. I'd really love to read a good book about why homophobia is such a thing...like it can't be old-school caveman shit because there's plenty of societies that are cool with 'teh gheyz'.


    Like, what is about the Anglo countries that is so virulently anti-gay? And how did we turn homosexuals into this aggressive stereotype when they're one of the most brutalized minorities out there.


    I get the black/hispanic/asian thing, because those have an economic component and their lower social stature was brought about by their status as immigrants (willing or otherwise), I even get the woman thing, because sexual jealousy makes some biological sense and that leads to weird control shit and the whole "Woman Stay Home Man Hunt Mammoth" makes sense due to the different physiology in men and women (the mechanics of pregnancy form a decent explanation for a LOT of our society's gender problem).


    But when the fuck did the homophobia thing come from? I just...don't see how it emerged from our primitive, reptile brain.

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  10. Wait, Warrior vs Golddust and fucking Warrior's calling spots?

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  11. Darren Young giving Brock 'CPR' would probably work today.

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  12. Goldust SAVED Ahmed's life!

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  13. Good question. Academics don't completely agree on the origins and driving forces behind homophobia but most concede a number of factors are in play:

    * essentially most experts in the field argue that societies historically view homosexuals as not 'gender normative' - that is to say they don't conform with what is deemed by society to be appropriate masculine and feminine behaviour.

    * as a result societies tend to react in a number of ways, very few of them inclusively. The most extreme reaction is homophobia. And this would appear to be a combination of genetic hard-wiring ('old-school caveman shit') and societal pressures. So you have heterosexuals displaying homophobia because they are both subconsciously threatened (genetically) as well as encouraged to persecute anyone different and in a minority (societally).

    * many agree homophobia is a more modern concept - that the response to homosexuality in the last two thousand years or so is markedly different to pre-Christian society. This doesn't specifically lay the blame at the door of religion, though it has a powerful influence on it.

    * homophobia, as we understand it today, has actually blossomed in Judaeo-Christian societies over the last two thousand years. Religious doctrine has entrenched the position of gay men and women as anti-Christian and historically levelled harsh punishments on anyone identified as such. I'm guessing most of us on here are in the US, Canada and the UK, all of which come from the westernised Christian tradition.


    * the 'aggressive stereotype' is just one way of negative identification of gay men and women - 'weak and effeminate' men, 'men hating lesbians' and even associations of gay men with paedophilia are others. All of these identifications are a means of placing homosexuals outside of 'normal society' - some argue this is done as a method of 'justifying' homophobia. Eg: homophobics have someone they don't like but don't necessarily know why (genetic and social conditioning) so in order to explain their 'gut reaction' they place homosexuals outside of the gender normative categories and in doing so justify their own persecution and hostility of them.

    Finally, in terms of further reading which you mention a good place to start would be:
    * anything by Rictor Norton
    * 'Homophobia' by Byrne Fone
    * ' Christianity, Social Tolerance and Homosexuality: Gay People in Western Europe from the Beginning of the Christian Era to the Fourteenth Century' by John Boswell
    * articles in The Social Psychological & Personality Science journal, particularly a 2014 paper called 'Sexual Prejudice, Avoiding Unwanted Sexual Interest?'

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  14. The Goldust/Warrior match seemed longer and even more boring than the stallfest they had at the earlier PPV if thats even possible. Warrior brought nothing to the table at this point.

    The best use for him would have been in tag team matches where he could get the entrance pop, do his 3 moves after the hot tag and otherwise let someone else actually do the in ring work.

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  15. Give Warrior credit... his careless work injured Owen's arm to begin with, thus kicking off the New Generation version of Bob Orton Jr.

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  16. MaffewOfBotchamaniaApril 19, 2015 at 3:56 AM

    Big thanks for this, unexpected reads like this are what make this blog great.

    Being a big gay, it was great seeing Goldust win the IC title using mind ga(y)mes.


    Him coming out as straight years later made it even better, he should have done a Higher Power and shouted ''You all bought it! You all bought it, you gay-hating idiots!''

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  17. Holy shit that was detailed. Major props.


    The challenge to accepted social order makes a lot of sense.



    I guess I don't see why the Abrahamic faiths have such a problem with homosexuality. Because the Ancient Greeks were just as much of paranoid social conservatives as our current day homophobes about "New Subversive Ideas' hell, Japan was pretty accepting of homosexuality and they were one of the most reclusive, orthodox-laden countries that's ever existed.

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  18. My PhD was in a very related field so I'm afraid the question stumbled across something I actually know about, for a change.


    On your response to Goldie... I remember feeling very uncomfortable with the original character and always have when wrestling (mostly the WWF/E actually) deals with sexuality. I'm not claiming to be bigger or gayer than you (although I'm guessing slightly older which may partly explain) but it's interesting to see a response from the other side of the coin.


    Out of curiosity, how did anyone else on the blog feel about an overtly gay character going over in feuds and matches? Gay, straight and rabidly homophobic views would be of interest...

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  19. Burt Macklin, Man Without FearApril 19, 2015 at 4:26 AM

    Granted by the time I started watching on a weekly basis the Goldust character had been toned down but I never thought Goldust was gay growing up. I just thought he was a weird guy who would rub his chest and wear wigs.

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  20. That segment with Lawler being all 'GOLDUST YOU'RE GAY GAY GAY' and Goldust is all 'no' then knocks out Lawler... in my heart Goldust hits him because Lawler's a homophobic douchebag.

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  21. I was watching at the time and honestly, I think it was Goldust full on molesting people that was fucked up. Whether he was gay or not seemed immaterial, so much as he used mind-games to mess with people and lure them into a false sense of security. That and his matches absolutely sucked.

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  22. MaffewOfBotchamaniaApril 19, 2015 at 5:34 AM

    When I saw Goldust for the first time I was a kid and was more confused as to why there was a guy dressed as an Oscar Statue to 'get' what he was doing. I was unsure if he was even human.

    Now I'm older I still feel the same...but The Undertaker groping segment is flat-out uncomfortable because Undi's flat-out being molested. And is it by Austin or Bret to get under Undi's skin? No, it's the gay guy because it's what they do, I guess.

    I'd call Goldust the gay Hassan (Or Hassan the middle-eastern Goldust) in that it was impossible to tell if they were trying to make a point and misfired or whoever was in charge of the segments just hated gays/middle-easterns. Or thought that's what the audience wanted.

    As for an overtly gay character going over? See, to me the definition of ''overtly gay'' gets in the way, because the only way to do that on TV is to do either a parody or a stereotype of homosexuals and actually the best way IMO would be to have a wrestler who is (for want of a better term) normal who just happens to be gay.

    Which is what they're doing with Darren Young already.

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  23. Doctor FunkopolisApril 19, 2015 at 5:34 AM

    Stop pushing your agenda on the world! Wanting to be treated fairly is ruining my marriage!

    Just the other day, minding my own business, bam! The gay

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  24. Clark O'BrienApril 19, 2015 at 5:40 AM

    Indeed, have wrestlers who are gay not "gay wrestler" as a character.

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  25. As there's nothing in the bible that says it's okay to make comments on blogs you really should stop posting in case you go to hell.

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  26. Evolution is easily-observable in nature, with offshoot populations that are separated rapidly developing different traits (such as Island Dwarfism). The fossil record alone shows numerous "between species" up and down the evolutionary chain. We've even found the "Synapsid Reptiles" that show the earliest mammalian traits, and there still exist mammals who lay eggs. Look at Archaeopteryx, an obviously-reptilian bird, and its numerous contemporaries. Read "Why Evolution is True" if you need more evidence and proof.

    Denying this makes you come off like Ned Flanders. And it's really silly, because the Bible was a book written centuries ago, before modern science existed. It COULDN'T have gotten everything right, and it's silly to quote passages from it to confirm things like the age of the planet or when and how all the animals came out. Accepting Christ or the lessons in the book can still allow someone with basic reason the ability to accept that certain things in the book are wrong.

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  27. So the woman that DiBiase made bark like a dog back in 1987 was NOT Linda McMahon?

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  28. That was random.
    Even for this place.

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  29. Gays, like Jews, became an easy target in the Middle Ages, I think. A good scapegoat or a symbol for people to look at and go "See? SEE how DEPRAVED all of these people are!?!" It's kind of a power thing for those in charge.

    It really spread a lot from the Bible (which actually doesn't feature THAT much about homosexuality... though it says that if a man fucks a sheep, you have to kill the man AND THE SHEEP), as well as the Quran.

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  30. Haha! Sorry. Watching the 1987 Survivor Series and they aired a long promo for the Million Dollar Man.

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  31. I think one thing is the religious part.

    Another thing is that as a "straight" man, you don't want to be molested by a "gay" or another man. (If it's a women it's usually OK I think ;-).

    I think for most of us it's ok if a gay man doesn't act like a gay man. It's his thing to do and I don't care. But if a gay man looks and acts like Adrian Goldust Adonis it's what makes him a great heel, because nobody would want that. And I don't think that women want that straight mans are molesting them the same way (which made Rick Rude so great as a heel when he feuded against Jake Roberts, or Ric Flair in the feud agains Macho Man. ).

    It's IMO not so much about gay or not gay, but more the molesting part of this gimmicks.

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  32. Read or watch the book/documentry - Why Darwin was wrong and I'll consider reading the Evolution book.

    And the Bible was written by God - so it can't be wrong. The fossil record could have easily come from a flood - as many species not collected by Noah could have died in that flood. Note I said could have - but as someone who knows that the Bible is the Truth, I know it is the only way.

    You can disagree - but I think the argument for creationism is more solid than a non-believer can accept.

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  33. No, but the punk kid with the mullet who he paid to kiss his foot was a teenage Rob Van Dam. I was at that show. Battle Creek, MI, May (I think), 1987.

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  34. Virgil's Gimmick TableApril 19, 2015 at 6:43 AM

    Goldust was Adrian Street on the same level as Adrian Street.

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  35. I'm going to do a point by point rebuttal here, something I don't do often.

    "And the Bible was written by God "
    The Torah/Pentateuch is said to have been transcribed by Moses directly from Gods word. This is only applicable to the first 5 books of the bible. The rest were written by various scholars and believers, not directly by God.

    "it can't be wrong"
    The bible contradicts itself when taken as a whole and if you take it as a literal telling of history it has numerous plot holes and issues regarding time, geography, history etc. Most bible scholars these days consider the bible to be a combination of fables which provide lessons in how people should live their lives, history which was passed mouth to mouth for centuries before being written down and thus was altered during the years and writings from third party scholars after the fact.

    "The fossil record could have easily come from a flood "
    Treating the bible as a correct account, the flood of the world occurred about 4500 years ago. Even going with the best possible set of circumstances, dinosaur bones and other fossils take 10,000 years to fossilise.

    "as many species not collected by Noah could have died in that flood"
    To quote from Genesis "Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee seven and seven, the male and his female; and of the beasts that are not clean two, the male and his female " So if the bible is the complete truth as you believe the fossils could not come from uncollected species.

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  36. Bret Hart doing the Goldust gimmick... the psychology of his matches would change a lot.

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  37. "Basic biology proved God created man and woman to become one unit."
    Biology proves that procreation is only possible between males & females in humans. It does not prove anything about family units or that sexual satisfaction should only be possible between two people of a different sex.

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  38. Wallace! What's the addresss for Amazon.ca?

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  39. He-Man is cool.

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  40. I repeat, this gimmick is played.

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  41. I get this reference!

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  42. I have a Fire TV Stick and I use the Network on it pretty frequently - it works well. There was an issue with the continue watching/watchlist stuff not synching with my other devices, but that seems to have fixed itself.

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  43. It would have been interesting from a psychological standpoint though, had it been. With Vince making Trish do the same for him, the true Million Dollar Man, all those years later. Still is, I guess. Oh never mind.

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  44. Usually the rule is the veteran calls the match unless the vet agrees otherwise.

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  45. I have the fire stick and it works well. Compared to my ps3, which used to kick me out of the wwe network all the time, the fire is great. Also, the fire allows me to organize the ppvs on the network by year rather than by title, which I prefer. I've never had a roku, so can't really compare there, but I like the fire quite a bit.

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  46. I have the fire and hadn't even thought of downloading njpw world. I'm going to try that now that you mentioned it. It'd be a lot nicer to watch njpw on my tv rather than my iPad.

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  47. But Scott knows they don't have the network on it yet! Don't tease him

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  48. Warrior and was only in the game three years before Dustin, and dust shows more development skills wise between 88 and 96 than warrior ever would.

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  49. Usually I tend to consider our hunter-gatherer roots with these kind of questions. Anyone caught engaging in gay activity (remember, no one was actually gay as a lifestyle choice until relatively recently) was considered to probably be too feminine or weak to protect the tribe, so they were ostracized and driven out. Generations later that manifests as people gaybashing, trying to shun gays from a "tribe" that doesn't exist anymore.

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  50. Would you trust Warrior to obey anything he is told to do by anyone other than the voices in his own head?

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  51. Scott Pilgrim.

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  52. Would you enter a ring and let someone do what they do in there if you don't trust them?

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  53. Aha. It's still odd that Warrior would go up against Dusty Rhodes son, who had seven years full-time experience and was a respected worker, and call the match. I mean Warrior wasn't known for his great matches.

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  54. Theres a difference between trusting someone to do what they are told and trusting someone won't intentionally hurt you.

    Just because you have a friend you wouldn't lend money to, doesn't mean he can't be trusted to foot a ladder for you.

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  55. I only watch the network on my Kindle Fire- the screen is fantastic and I swear that listening with headphones is the way to go

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  56. Until the rise of Austin, 1996 Raw = Garbage

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  57. Occasionally you got some great wrestling but the number of good wrestlers was fast diminishing.

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  58. MaffewOfBotchamaniaApril 19, 2015 at 8:06 AM

    Who could he have tagged with in 1996? Savio?

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  59. My unhealthy hatred of Shawn Michaels killed any good will I had for the company until Austin got going.

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  60. Bob Holly, Marty Jannetty & Bradshaw were all directionless midcarders who could have filled the Ricky Morton role really well.

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  61. Speaking of bad officiating, one of my favorite things to do is talk about how disgracefully officiated the "sport" of wrestling. Enough people jump in that we start mock ranting about all of the bad things about wrestling and how it's a "disgrace to the league" like angry basketball fans. The best part is watching people who can't get sarcasm having ulcers trying to drill into you that it's fake and we're idiots for thinking it's real.

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  62. Is there a wrestler that was popular that you didn't like?

    For me, it was The Rock. He was an arrogant, mean spirited asshole that talked a good game that usually lost the big match. Plus his obsession with monkey nipples and sticking things up peoples asses was creepy.

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  63. Steve Austin after his neck injury
    Most of his matches were overbooked and until the multiple run-ins started you knew there was no way the match was going to end. He was constantly in dull matches that went on far too long. He would get involved in other wrestlers storylines and either overshadow their efforts or just plain punk them out.

    After he was charged with beating his wife, they still had him attacking random women for crimes such as not wanting to drink with him or liking his opponent and he was treated as a face for these actions.

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  64. I think teaming with a newcomer would have given that newcomer a big rub. No point teaming with Holly and Jannetty because fans already saw those guys as jobbers.

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  65. They could have been given new gimmicks as Warriors protégé

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  66. Belee_Matt!_INDEED!!!April 19, 2015 at 8:29 AM

    My first upvote for Dougie. Thank you.

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  67. I thought Austin had a bunch of great matches after his neck surgery. Hitting the stunner on women was in bad taste.

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  68. Roku is significantly better than Fire TV. If the Roku Stick wasn't strong enough for you, get the Roku 3 instead. I hate the Fire TV interface which seems more interested in promoting Amazon content than being user friendly. Roku has by the far the best interface out of the streaming devices.

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  69. Hulk Hogan half way through his first title run in the mid 80s. His act got boring and I actually longed for his heel character during his initial WWF run which was awesome because he was so dominant during his TV squash matches. I rejoiced when Paul Orndorff turned on Hogan. One of my favorite pieces of business during that era.

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  70. If you make a list of his best matches, HHH, Rock, Angle, Foley are the opponents who come up often. During those guys primes they were perfectly capable of carrying an average wrestler to a great match.

    Whereas when he faced off with guys who couldn't carry him like Undertaker, Kane or Rikishi, the matches stunk.

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  71. Yeah, but when Chyna nails you from behind in the balls and almost costs you your title...Well, different time back then.

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  72. The thing is, Orndorff was justified in turning. Hogan WAS hogging the spotlight.

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  73. Back then, almost any match with Taker, Kane and/or Rikishi sucked.

    In 2000/2001, he had some great matches with Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit.

    I don't think Steve Austin had to be carried to a great match.

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  74. Also, Adrain Adonis stirred the pot with Orndorff reminding him of that. "So what if Hogan sells more dolls than me?"

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  75. Why did they only tack on the "Dibiase must leave" stipulation for the Beware of Dog 2 rematch and not the original Aystin/Savio match? It's not like they anticipated re-running the PPV two nights later... Did Dibiase give his notice that night or something?

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  76. And at No Way Out when she gave him the double bird. Chyna was as big as most of the men

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  77. DiBiase gave notice

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  78. Add Benoit to the list of guys who could carry a good wrestler to a great match.
    Austin was not the worst wrestler in the world but I didn't need to see him in long dull matches against the same opponents over and over again.

    If you think Cena is over the tv show too much today, Austin would take out entire factions himself without even feuding with them. He would take out newly crowned champions just to cut a promo and the only way they were able to get the title off him for any length of time was to have him get stripped of it rather than have him actually lose the title in the ring.

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  79. WCW offered stupid amounts of money for far less work. Dibiase would have been insane to turn the offer down.

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  80. I went to a house show with Austin/HHH on top and the place exploded when Austin stunned Chyna. It was unchartered territory as far as getting physical with women. Looking back even though Chyna had it coming, it didn't send a good message.

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  81. I'm not disputing Dibiase's sound judgment in taking the offer. But did he not give notice until this very night? It just seemed like an odd stip to throw onto a totally unplanned rematch.

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  82. I remember his WCW debut in the crowd with the four fingers. Pre dirt sheet/internet me thought, OMG, Flair brought in DiBiase to help battle the NWO. Yeah right...

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  83. Chris Jericho. Loved his promos, hated his matches.

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  84. So with Tazz now a free agent. Is there a space in WWE for him to be brought in.
    Also is he a big enough name to be offered a Legends contract?

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  85. It should be totally legal to punch the "you know it's fake, right" person in the throat with no repercussions. I got into an argument with a teacher in high school who said that when I responded, "You watch TV right? You know Cliff & Claire Huxstable are not really married...?"

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  86. I would say no & no. But both depends whatever mood Vince is in if the topics are brought up.

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  87. Elton John came to me and with a tear in his eye told me that I was the best power bottom he ever worked with.

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  88. Despised Jericho between 2002-2003. Before and after I lived him. But that period.. Yuck.

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  89. Oh Taker had some REALLY stinky years. For me none more so than 1999. Ugh.

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  90. Insane money for little work

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  91. The Heenan family showering Orndorff with praise is awesome. All he wanted from the start was to feel loved.

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  92. ...until Thunder started up. The money was still insane, but working that one extra day. The horrors!

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  93. In fairness, we get long dull matches featuring the same guys over and over again now.

    I'm in the tank for Austin. Him and Bret are my favorite wrestlers ever.

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  94. Hogan past wm6. I didn't care for him in wcw as a face and didn't care for him 2002 Wwe. When he became champ in 02, that was one of the things that made me stop watching

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  95. Yeah, it seemed the whole point of the Gunns' split was to give Billy a big singles push, which never materialized so it wouldn't have changed things if they kept Gunns together for a little longer. At the same time Gunns were really stale and had a stupid gimmick so them splitting up was a welcome change.

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  96. I watched this on the network a few weeks back and wondered the exact same. Did they have another plan for Dibiase's exit which they brought forward because of the PPV issues, or was it really all that last minute?

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  97. Love is overrated. Orndorff was popular no doubt, but his heel persona was so awesome. That deal with Hogan was major; everybody made bank with that feud.

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  98. I always thought that he gave his notice either on the Sundayat the PPV or the Monday before Raw, he would have worked another month, but as they needed something extra to add to the strap match to make it mean something a second time, they threw that in on the last minute.

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  99. I think Tazz leaving WWE to go to TNA forever fucked up his relationship with them.

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  100. You're right, the whole thing did come out of left field. With DiBiase being WWF's top heel for close to 10 years, DiBiase deserved a better exit than that.

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  101. Dibiase hadn't been a major player for about 3 years prior to this in the WWF. His stable of losers were jokes who lost every big match.

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  102. You are awesome.

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  103. I wish Dirk Ziggler would come out with a t shirt that said Directionless Midcarder. I am thoroughly against spending any disposable income on pro wrestling but I'd buy that shirt.

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  104. Doubt it, anyone with common sense at the time predicted that they were going to misuse Hall and Nash because it's WCW and it's what they do.

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  105. I was reading some stuff from the time and there were guys saying "Have fun in the Dungeon of Doom, Diesel!"

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  106. Clark O'BrienApril 19, 2015 at 9:26 AM

    Everybody has a price.

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  107. Besides even if Vince knew ahead of time what WCW would do with them it wasn't a guranteed success that it would work and makes them a whole ton of money. Everything in life is a gamble and the nWo was one gamble that paid off huge.

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  108. With the exception of Hogan every other star they had brought in from WWF had been a failure for various reasons.

    I doubt WWF were expecting Nash/Hall to buck the trend.

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  109. "You can't cross breed different species." What the fuck do you think a mule is?

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  110. It's not like Taker, Kane, and Rikishi were having good matches with HHH, Rock, Angle, and Foley...

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  111. UT vs Foley, Angle or HHH had several great matches
    Kane vs Angle or HHH had some really good matches

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  112. At some point during their careers, yes. From 1998-2001? I don't think so.

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  113. I see nothing wrong with it. Woman or not, she was getting physically involved in matches. And she went far beyond the typical slap or trip you'd see from other female managers/valets. She was more than capable of handling herself in the ring vs. men.

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  114. And she more than held her own when she was getting double teamed by those two porn stars.

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  115. Duggan in WWF. Ultimate Warrior

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  116. UT vs Foley at KOTR98
    Kane vs HHH at WM15

    Both matches better than anything Austin did with either guy during the period.
    I'm not claiming that Austin was a terrible wrestler, but he was not a great worker post injury and his matches got very samey.

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  117. UT/Foley was a spectacle, not a match. Not a good point of reference.

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  118. Chyna was seen as a physical equal to the men and was interfering in a match. Attacking someone like Stacy Kiebler for not wanting to have a beer was very different. Especially as this kind of behaviour carried on after the spousal abuse charges were filed.

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  119. Just watched a couple Ric Flair/Brian Pillman matches from 1990 & 1991. Damn, they had some great chemistry together.

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  120. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogApril 19, 2015 at 9:56 AM

    That's a great point. I'm sure Vince was sitting there thinking that if Hogan & Savage going to WCW didn't bring the WWF down, what would Razor & Diesel matter?

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  121. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogApril 19, 2015 at 9:56 AM

    Probably a fair assessment too. Vince probably has enough hubris to believe that if HE couldn't make Nash the next megastar, then surely WCW couldn't

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  122. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogApril 19, 2015 at 9:57 AM

    NXT announce booth?

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  123. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogApril 19, 2015 at 10:01 AM

    I love that, looking back now. Pretty much all the great heel turns on Hogan that ended up drawing money were justified. Orndorff got tired of playing second fiddle. Andre had a legitimate claim to a title shot. Savage had enough of Hulk being too close to Liz and, as champion, didn't need to be in Hogan's shadow.


    I am confident that Brutus Beefcake was next to turn on Hogan, if they were to stay in WWF in '93 and beyond.

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  124. He didn't leave for tna, his contract was up and they him go. He debuted for tna months later

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  125. Goldust's character was one of the best in the pre-Attitude Era WWF's history.

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  126. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogApril 19, 2015 at 10:03 AM

    Rock, HHH, Angle, Benoit, Jericho.... all in various combinations. You didn't like any of those matches?

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  127. Maybe a trainer in NXT, too?

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  128. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogApril 19, 2015 at 10:05 AM

    Great point about him losing the big match most the time. He talked like Ali, but rarely backed it up, even as a babyface. He went like 60/40 with HHH during the height of their powers, lost to Austin at Mania the two times they closed the show, got shit-hammered by Brock in '02, wrecked by Goldberg, etc. It was awesome that he could lay down and stay just as over, but yeah, as a character, he talked a lot of shit without really backing it up that often. Part of the appeal of his character for me, but to each his own

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  129. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogApril 19, 2015 at 10:06 AM

    New Age Outlawz. Got tired of their intro after a handful of repeats. Never had a match I considered better than OK. Terrible as singles guys too.

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  130. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogApril 19, 2015 at 10:10 AM

    Austin vs. Underaker at SummerSlam was pretty decent. Austin vs. Foley was great both times in '98. Austin vs. Kane admittedly was garbage.

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  131. And Sid had every right to be pissed that Hogan pulled him out of the Royal Rumble when it was every man for himself

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  132. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogApril 19, 2015 at 10:10 AM

    Aside from Michaels or Hart carrying him, Taker wasn't any good until like 2006.

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  133. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogApril 19, 2015 at 10:12 AM

    Same people who blubber like children during "Parenthood" or get all worked up during "Sons of Anarchy" or a goddamn daytime soap opera.

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  134. That HitC match is garbage as a match. It was mostly Foley falling off shit while Taker watched.

    Kane/HHH was okay (Scott might call it "Perfectly Acceptable Wrestling"), but it was more about the storyline than the match.

    I agree Austin's matches were very samey during that time period, but a big reason for that were his opponents. After beating HBK at WM14 and until his 1999 neck injury, his opponents were:

    Dude Love
    Dude Love
    Kane (first blood match)
    teamed w/ Taker vs. Kane and Mankind
    Taker (suffered a concussion during the match)
    Kane and Taker (handicap match)
    Big Bossman, Mankind (world title tourney)
    Taker (buried alive match)
    Vince (cage match)
    Rock
    Rock
    Taker (when Owen died)
    Vince and Shane (handicap ladder match)
    Taker (first blood match)
    Mankind and HHH (triple threat match)
    HHH

    The only matches you could've reasonably expected a good match were vs. Dude Love twice, Rock twice, the triple threat, and HHH. All of which delivered IMO. The rest all sucked due to goofy stipulations, the opponents themselves, and extenuating circumstances.

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  135. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogApril 19, 2015 at 10:13 AM

    I was going to say that Warrior's return to WWF in '96 was one of the most useless comebacks of all time. . .


    Then I thought about the same guy's "comeback" in WCW in '98

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  136. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogApril 19, 2015 at 10:13 AM

    Pillman was great back then

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  137. In response to both i'll remind you that we're talking about the Ultimate Warrior here. Not exactly known to have a small ego. If he was the veteran, he was gonna call the match. Relative talent really doesn't factor in on their end.

    ReplyDelete
  138. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogApril 19, 2015 at 10:14 AM

    Oh yeah, another good one. Sid was totally justified. All he wanted was to win the Rumble and face the champion. When he got neither, he targeted Hogan.

    ReplyDelete
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