Saturday, May 16, 2015

Network future

When news came out that no one is watching archived content on the network doesn't that spell trouble for them?  We are in one of the lowest interested periods in wrestling and they're are trying to market a wrestling exclusive network.  There is a reason netflix has 60mil subs and WWE is practically begging for less than 5 percent of that.  Netflix has options of choice depending what your in the mood for.  Movies/TV, comedy, action, romance, documentary, etc..The main selling point of the network is the PPV's. but wasnt the second selling pt the archived content?  There is only so much wrestling content a person could take.  every show that isnt actual wrestling is about wrestling.  if you were in charge would you double down and add more wrestling centric content or would you attempt to go for broke and branch out to add non traditional items?  Is there( a reason they cant put wwe studios movies on there?  I know nothing about the tv business but
 could it be feasible to buy old tv shows on the cheap not like seinfeld going for 800k per episode) but maybe something like married with children, wings, home improvement, night court something that is not on tv syndication anymore?  i know people made fun of hogans cartoon getting added, but i think that was a sliver of an attempt at total family service.  like i said earlier Netflix has something for everyone male, female, kids.  maybe they were trying female demo - total divas, male- everything, kids -hogan cartoon. Im sorry this got long and most if it was just talking out of my ass cuz im someone who will never run anything in my life. Thanks for reading.

​​
​They have every right to put WWE Studios movies on there as long as they own the rights to them, which would be anything not distributed by a major studio AFAIK.  Even then if they wanted to put 12 Rounds 2 or whatever on there, I'm sure they could work out a cheap deal for it. 

As for TV shows, yes, there are bazillions of cheaply licensed shows available for distribution.  That's basically the entire Canadian cable landscape at this point and a big reason why I don't bother with cable anymore.  Learning the Ropes is just begging for inclusion, I say!  

296 comments:

  1. Cena vs Neville from Raw was better than anything that has been on NXT since March.


    Framing legitimate criticisms as a cynical backlash is lame.

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  2. Dana Brookes is a HOSS.

    I guess they're going for x-pac heat with her.

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  3. Nope they are going for actual heat.

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  4. I think they're encouraging people to boo her for reasons other than her being a mean baddie. People are complaining they just don't want to see her on TV. Shades of Sean Waltman!

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  5. Well, that was a great match. Between the top guy in the industry who's had dozens of 4+ star matches, and one of the best workers in NXT's history.

    Not sure if saying NXT hasn't done anything that good in a scant few weeks really registers as a "criticism."

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  6. I watch and I do enjoy it but im not in love with it as much as the others. But I do recognize a supperior wrestling program when I seeone

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  7. I dont think someone is going to order the Award Winning WWE Network because they have all the episodes of Wings on them.

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  8. Who's making fun of Hogan's Rock n Wrestling being added to the network? I'm checking every few days to see if they've added any more episodes, since They took the one and done approach with it for some reason.

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  9. I think this is something they could actually put Russo in charge of.

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  10. Nope it is a deliberate.

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  11. Has anything come remotely close though?


    It does actually. As that it is what fans attending have come to expect. There was a lot of disappointment that Rose/Breeze vs Itami/Balor was the final match of the last taping. The last taping (containing the last 3 episodes) was dubbed the worst ever too.

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  12. Oh okay. Good to know, thanks!

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  13. If they want the network to catch on with non hardcore fans then they will need a hook. They need a Duck Dynasty.


    Hardcore wrestling fans are too few, and too fickle, to sustain a network of archived footage.


    But no one is paying 9.99 a month to watch Wings either.

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  14. They are hardly subtle about it.

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  15. NXT has great Takeover shows and then very average to below average shows in between with the occasional great match tossed in.

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  16. Non-wrestling fans will never pay $9.99 a month for a wrestling network no matter what. Even casual fans don't buy it.

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  17. Let's face it, WWE Network is a novelty that will wear off when people need to save a few quid/bucks. Most ppvs aren't worth $9.99 and the archive stuff, once watched won't hold much replay value for the majority.

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  18. I wouldn't call it a backlash, people just realize it's in a minor lull right now. I don't think anyone has written it off yet. Speaking for myself, it's pretty much my last lingering thread of actually enjoying wrestling.

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  19. Now you're on to something....work out a deal with USA to air all their old original content. I'd love to see Weird Science and Duckman again.

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  20. They need their equivalent of Orange Is The New Black or Game of Thrones, that one thing with mass appeal that gets everyone talking and makes everyone want to buy their service just to see it. Easier said than done, I know.

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  21. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogMay 16, 2015 at 7:57 AM

    But would stuff like Duck Dynasty even catch on if people had to pay $10 a month for it?

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  22. R.O.C.K. in the U.S.A.May 16, 2015 at 7:59 AM

    Concept the e-mail is missing:

    You can't have more variety to be like Netflix because everything will be wrestling.

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  23. Well maybe, maybe not. I think that's their best bet though. If something really got a lot of buzz then it would certainly help.

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  24. #truth. I'm canceling over the summer while I'm buying a house (also cancelled Hulu -- and maybe Netflix too).

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  25. They're best bet might to cut a deal with nbcu for a wwe/nbc online network.

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  26. While we're talking about the network, since they're doing a second of at the end of the month, why don't they fuck with the day? How about showing it on a Saturday instead of a Sunday just to see what happens?

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  27. I feel like at least part of the reason the archive stuff isn't a draw is the slapdash way they're adding to the archive. Sometimes we get a week of old raw, sometimes 3, sometimes SIX but they skip two in the sequences. Then here's all of 98 even though they skipped 97.

    Here's a bunch of Nitros, all at once! But just 95 & 96. Nothing from 97 or 98.

    Like ecw? Here's a few episodes, randomly. Now a bunch! Now none again!

    I mean, how are u supposed to get into watching any of it. Pick a damn schedule to upload stuff, make it known (use the live feed to help) and then FUCKING STICK TO IT.

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  28. You've outed yourself as a Rob Estes mark.

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  29. I dig the live specials, watch a few weeks of the show after and forget about it. Then hear about the next live special, watch it, watch a few weeks of follow up.... Then forget about it. Lather rinse repeat. If they were doing live shows every two months that'd probably keep me watching the whole year.

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  30. PWG, my friend.

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  31. When was the last time anyone saw a commercial on the network? I don't get why they don't have commercials during the breaks between shows (especially on the live feed) to help profitability.

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  32. Cena vs Orton,one more timeMay 16, 2015 at 8:12 AM

    No you're wrong,stupidhead.Don't you see EVERYTHING HAS TO BE IN BLACK AND WHITE?!

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  33. I feel like the emailer might be depressed. Don't worry kid, you'll do something great someday!

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  34. As a homeowner I offer my congratulations... and my condolences.

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  35. James M. FabianoMay 16, 2015 at 8:24 AM

    But what do the NXT Debbie Downers think of feline AIDS?

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  36. People are confused, that's why you're starting to see fractures in the NXT fanbase. It's somewhat WWE's fault.


    It's developmental. The point is for people to learn how to wrestle. The problem is they've signed all these long time Indie vets who can wrestle, and they're awesome, and it's made their fanbase think that NXT is some Indie fanboy's wet dream, and then a couple of them leave or get hurt and you get more of the developmental people like Baron Corbin, and Blake & Murphy, and Dana Brooke, and Alexa Bliss, and Bull Dempsey come out and the fans turn on it because everyone, the fans and WWE, have lost site that this is supposed to be a developmental show.


    And then, the people who attend NXT have reached Impact Zone levels of obnoxiousness.

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  37. The bottom line is WWE Network will go as the WWE product goes.


    The product isn't good. If the product was good, people would be excited to see the PPVs and buy the network.


    The stuff in the vault is just a perk for hardcores, it was never going to be the thing that sold the network.


    And I don't think random TV shows would really help.

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  38. You can't hit a home run out of the park every time. Even in the heyday of the Attitude Era, there were some blah episodes as well.

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  39. Let them be obnoxious. It's much better than a dead crowd on RAW where you can hear the ten-year-old in the upper deck chant for Cena.

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  40. They are surprisingly upbeat about it.

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  41. been saying that for months. Partner up with a provider that has more content options. No one is ever going to buy the WWE Network to watch Hogan's Heroes reruns. But someone may be a package service that includes the WWE Network.

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  42. It is interesting you say most ppvs aren't worth 9.99. PPVs have been more than 9.99 since the very first Wrestling Classic. Obviously 100k thought they were worth 50 bucks even two years ago. Now for me, as a non-fan of the current product, sure they aren't worth 9.99. Heck, I've even skipped a few of the "free" ones on the Network while I watched other stuff that month. But studies have shown that price point is not a major factor in ppv purchases. Raising the prices of ppvs over the years had little effect on buyrates. It is all about the interest of the fans in the current storylines and matches, not prices.

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  43. I mean the show has been in a bit of a lull lately but nothing horrible. I mean it happens. You can't go full guns blazing and put out your absolute best week after week without burning out your guys.

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  44. yep. Without a huge influx of fans like the mid 80s or the Attitude era, this is the market. WWE just has to adjust costs accordingly, which sadly falls mostly on the backs of the wrestlers and other employees. I will say that taking on some advertisers would be helpful to increase revenue. I doubt it would impact subscribers but would make a bit more cash.

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  45. Agreed. Nothing helps the Network until Raw ratings first improve.

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  46. I don't think the fans are obnoxious. They appreciate the work most of the time and generally aren't mean-spirited. And attempts at getting themselves over rather than responding to the matches are generally minimal.

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  47. I don't think the random upload schedule of older content is helping matters. I mean I don't want to start Nitro and then be stuck on 1996 for half a year.

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  48. Agree with Fuji that this is a developmental thing, although HHH seems to be trying to having it both ways, as both developmental and a cool "indie fed." At the same time I see the weekly shows as being similar to the old style TV that you got in JCP, WWF, WCCW, etc. In the 80s weekly TV was largely made to showcase characters and build towards house shows (or later ppv). NXT does the same thing, albeit with some higher quality matches on occasion. It's not Raw with big names fighting big names and a breakneck pace of stuff happening, whether logical or not. It's slowly paced to create 5 or 6 feuds to lead towards a bigger show every 2 months. It has a combination of squashes, mildy compettive matches, and generally one "big" match per show. But it ain't Raw or Nitro. It's a throwback in pacing to a time when fans had no issue watching Lanny Poffo against Iron Mike Sharpe on Primetime or watching Orndorff squash talent every week for 2 months while building him up for a Hogan house show run (see Championship wrestling 1984)

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  49. Yeah, I don't really understand their roll out of vault stuff. They own all the content they could literally put everything in their archives up as a huge wrestling database. For some reason, they don't seem to be interested in that.

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  50. FWIW I dont think NXT is all that great.

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  51. Wrestling has a hardcore fanbase literally OOZING with nostalgia at all times, so they'll pay $9.99 for old stuff, in certain numbers at least. Nobody's paying anything to watch old episodes of Wings or Home Improvement. I don't think those shows have many hardcore fans. Putting crappy old shows on there that Netflix can't be bothered to buy would just make them look like a shitty low-rent Netflix.

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  52. And even with a huge Hulkamania/Attitude era influx, it would only be temporary anyway as those bandwagon fans lose interest a year or two later.

    Four of the last six months have been offered "Free". That says everything you need to know about the struggle to maintain subscribers.

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  53. These Whither The Network threads aren't the same without Michael Xavier arguing at length that the title needs to go on Hogan

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  54. WWE might be desperate enough to try it now

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  55. I want to know why they only advertise during WWE programming. They only advertise the network to people who already subscribe. They need to have a commercial that shows during NBA, NFL, MLB, NHL, the wnba, or any other sports. And on TV land, cartoon network, E, alt el. Anywhere old fans that no longer watch and have no idea the network exists, might be watching. People who have have fond memories; that might want to check out old stuff.

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  56. On youtube, I saw alot of old stuff that was on WWE 24/7. They were carried at that time, What's the difference now?

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  57. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogMay 16, 2015 at 9:43 AM

    The problem is twofold:
    1. If they stay in their box and put out only wrestling stuff, they wont appeal much further than a niche market. Hardcore fans want the nostalgia stuff, casuals want current product to some degree.
    2. If they start putting random TV shows and shitty D-list movies, they start looking like a crappy version of Netflix. That's a problem because customers know Netflix is only $8 and you get a million times the bang for your buck. WWE films wont do it because they all suck and even the free apps like Crackle have better quality stuff than that.

    They are either a niche market appealing to a limited fanbase or they are an overpriced network selling a much worse library/service than the established conpetition

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  58. Stranger in the AlpsMay 16, 2015 at 9:44 AM

    Yeah? Well, your neighbor's mom called. She wants her waffle iron back. Also, YOU'RE BAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNED!

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  59. WWE Network and various streaming services will get there eventually as the big companies join them up, and begin the road of streaming ending up like cable, where we pay for 90% of content we'll never watch.

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  60. The Monday Night Wars thing had that potential because everyone and their mother were watching around that time. Of course we all know how that worked out

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  61. It's definitely the future. In 15-20 years network tv will be gone. All we'll need is the internet and a nice tv that doesn't need to be cable ready.

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  62. Yep, once HHH went along with saying NXT is competition for WWE, it's a problem. He'll eventually run out of indie stars he can sign. And we see how WWE does making their own wrestlers. NXT is deader than dead when that happens.

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  63. Theberzerker, #1 HUSS CHOMPIONMay 16, 2015 at 9:57 AM

    I think the content roll out scheduling on the Network is a pretty spot on representation of Vince's mind now - Inconsistent, changes every other day, scattershot, simultaneously obsessed with AND repulsed by past glories & failures, insecure about itself yet self-aggrandizing at the same time, simultaneously 100% involved with yet 100% embarrassed by what it is.

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  64. My best guess is server space is expensive. Formatting for hd really shouldn't be an issue. Give me 24/7 plus the ppv and o give you at least $15 a month.

    The way there going, if the ever did put up the wcw Saturday show, they'd start in 94 with Hogan's debut.

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  65. More importantly, is there really people willing to pay $9.99 monthly to watch Wings re-runs?

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  66. I would for learning the ropes re-runs

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  67. youtube and dailymotion still carry alot of old content. The $10/month is worth it to me just for the PPVs and something to watch when I'm in the mood. But the Network is like listening to a classic rock radio station; over 50 years of material but they play same stuff all the time.

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  68. This is my main problem that there only 4 live special if there went every other month,the tv would be better

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  69. Stranger in the AlpsMay 16, 2015 at 10:06 AM

    At this point, I'm watching the Network for classic content (which I'm trying to get through chronologically), and the monthly specials. Some weekly NXT gets watched. I don't use the Network for any of the current programming (Countdown, MNW, etc.). I'm willing to pay $10 a month for all the classic content in one place. They still need to fill in the gaps with the old TV programming, which I'm sure will come with time.


    I don't think I would watch any of the WWE films, really.

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  70. Familiarity breeds contempt. The more invested you become in something, the more flaws you begin to see (or speculate on).

    And then there's the hipster-tastic "well, I can't like something so many people already like" mindset.

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  71. I would say no because for one DVD purchase you can get a show's entire run. When the Simpsons debuted on FXX, I said that I would pay $10/month because there's 25+ seasons to view. But fortunately theres a website where its on demand on free.

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  72. Who's going to subscribe to the network to watch WWE movies? If you really want to see them, you can rent them on Amazon for like $5 a piece.

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  73. Stranger in the AlpsMay 16, 2015 at 10:08 AM

    I have the same complaint about classic rock radio. Why do you play the same 50-75 songs when you have decades of stuff being ignored?

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  74. It's not like there's going to stop being guys to sign. We just happened to have an exceptionally good group of them in the past year that are now starting to come up and make the main product better, which of course is the idea. And yeah, it might not always be as good as having guys like Neville/Finn/Itami/Owens/Sami all at once. But we've got Uhaa and Joe coming in next, and that should be pretty dope too.

    With basically unlimited resources to acquire talent, they should be able to get a class of 4-5 really good, well-known indy/international guys on a yearly basis. NXT won't be "deader than dead," though the weekly show may eventually prove to have already peaked in 2014.

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  75. Serious question: Did the report about the archived content not getting a lot of views mean that no one item in particular was being watched, or that as a whole the archives weren't being viewed? There's so much stuff on there, you might havea handful each watching different classic PPVs, and if you added them up, it would be a decent number.

    Curious about that, since I'll randomly flip on, say, Elimination Chamber to watch that since the PPV is coming back.

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  76. I listen to the local classic rock station at work. While I enjoy hearing One Of These Days by Pink Floyd on a near daily basis, I could go without hearing 5 Def Leppard songs in a 9 hour period.

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  77. Stranger in the AlpsMay 16, 2015 at 10:10 AM

    I'm tired of Hotel California, myself.

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  78. I'd argue that there were a LOT of blah episodes during the Attitude era.

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  79. I've said this many times before, the Network only works if the PPV's are must-see. When you see these matches on cable many times over, there's no point in tuning in. WWE is painted into a corner. They have to fill up five hours of television with their top stars because that's the expectations from fans and USA. But they also need fresh matchups and intriguing storylines to sell the Network.

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  80. Stranger in the AlpsMay 16, 2015 at 10:12 AM

    WWE won?

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  81. The selling point of the network is that you get 12+ PPVs for the price, annually, of 2-3.

    That's it. Everything else they put on it or could put on it is either a niche appeal product for hardcore fans or fluff bullshit and neither will boost sub numbers in any appreciable way.

    If you make your 12+ PPVs a year worth seeing, sub numbers go up. If 9-10 of your 12+ PPVs a year are rematches of the last PPV and play out like Sunday Night Raws, nobody is gonna pay to see them all.

    That's the start and the end of it. Is there more the WWE could be doing with the Network? Yes. Is the time and money they'd put into it worth the tiny, tiny, tiny number of new subs that those things MAY bring in? No.

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  82. Yup, which is why everything ties into how hot their product is.


    More people are interested in RAW, more people will buy the network to watch PPVs.

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  83. Stranger in the AlpsMay 16, 2015 at 10:13 AM

    Also, D-X swayed the war significantly.

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  84. I don't mind that song because Joe Walsh.
    But there is a local station that is commercial free and plays 60s-90s rock. I think it's literally someone's Ipod because the station could go silent for a day sometimes.

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  85. And the other aspect of this that really leads to a fucked up situation is:


    Three hour RAW are, have been, and always will be death. Yet they're so leveraged on the network as their future major source of revenue, that their rights deal with USA to produce three hours each week is what's keeping them financially viable.


    So they can't not do three hours. They can't afford to turn down the money at this point.


    But three hours means it's almost always going to be shitty, so the potential to grow, or excite their audience, which would push more people to the network, is going to be extremely low.


    So they're stuck.

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  86. I thought it was going to a discussion type show like the Legends of Wrestling. But I enjoyed it. They can't convince me of history changing events because I was watching both shows on a weekly basis and know how things went down.

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  87. Personally, I thought the WWE put on a better product in 1997; especially at the top of the card when you had 5-6 guys going after each other every other segment. But for a true sway: Mike Tyson.

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  88. Yeah, I mean, Rusev, Brock Lesnar, Shelton Benjamin, Bray Wyatt, all jobbers and flukes. Enzo and Cass? Who likes those guys? Charlotte? Pfft, terrible.

    What?

    Yeah, if you compare the WWE's in-house work to literally the entirety of non-WWE pro wrestling worldwide, the WWE has a worse track record of developing stars.

    However, Kevin Owens and Sami Zayn are currently feuding for the NXT title while Finn Balor should be on Raw any day now to join Neville while Samoa Joe is waiting in the wings, Tyler Breeze just needs a chance and Hideo Itami was finding his rhythm before his injury. That none of those guys would have gotten a second look by the VPs of Talent that came before HHH suggests to me that the future of the WWE (talent wise) is just fine.

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  89. These are all great points from Vice & Ford.

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  90. And because the product is so stagnant, they can't leverage that in negotiations against other interested parties because there are none.

    Sometimes, being stuck in a stasis you can't break free of is worse than failing.

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  91. I think their best bet is to turn the first hour of RAW into a glorified pre-show and in that manner, kind of write it off.


    Interviews with people "arriving at the arena"
    NXT match
    Announcements and hype for stuff coming up at the top of the second hour
    Lengthy C level match with a some type of basic back story (i.e. Jack Swagger vs. Stardust, Swagger find Stardust's insane ramblings idiotic, just wants to punch him)
    Recaps
    More Interviews
    B level match to lead into the top of the hour (i.e. Miz vs. Cesaro)


    And then a tight two hour show.

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  92. I overstated it, they're generally corny but fun, but the last episode that aired, I was getting definite Impact Zone vibes. That may have just been an isolated taping.

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  93. Tj: ex machina or mad Max?

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  94. Doctor FunkopolisMay 16, 2015 at 10:43 AM

    Where I live, the public transportation authority have encountered a problem. People weren't riding buses.

    So they cut the routes to "save money". This causes people to stop using them altogether.

    So they cut routes to "save money". This causes people to stop using them altogether.

    WWE is doing the exact same thing.

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  95. However nobody is forcing them to make 3 hours of RAW like a PPV. They could present the first hour only NXT matches.They could make shorter matches. They could make more talking segments. For example some roundtable discussions like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7CM82u_hT0 Live in the arena.

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  96. Shelton BenjaminMay 16, 2015 at 10:45 AM

    "I know people made fun of hogans cartoon getting added"

    I don't recall a single person making fun of it being added

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  97. Shelton BenjaminMay 16, 2015 at 10:47 AM

    Quagmire

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  98. It's suddenly lame to like NXT and cool to like Lucha Underground. In six months, it'll be lame to like LU. Essentially, they're changing what "it" is.

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  99. I just checked. nxtmecca.com is still available.

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  100. Me neither. In fact, it makes total sense for WWE to upload anything they own the rights to. At least it's something for the kiddies.

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  101. I'm going to see Ex Machina this week. Mainly because I know Max will be in theaters a bit longer so I can catch it next time.

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  102. Shelton BenjaminMay 16, 2015 at 10:50 AM

    "The more invested you become in something, the more flaws you begin to see (or speculate on)."

    Which is exactly why I don't ever spend too much time getting into myself. That way, I'm always perfect!

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  103. If they want to bring network subscriptions down to single digits, they can put Chyna's pornos on the network.

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  104. That's the best idea for Jack Swagger I heard about since The Real Americans.

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  105. Or just an hour of squashes and an interview.

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  106. This is all dependent on how demanding USA is on showcasing their best talent for 3 hours. They've got WWE by the balls.


    And with Smackdown also moving to USA next year, oy.

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  107. Shelton BenjaminMay 16, 2015 at 11:00 AM

    And it's PG, too

    Pretty Gross

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  108. They should also start showing footage from house shows. Maybe even have a belt change hands occasionally. Back in the hey day of nwa/crocket, they would constantly show house footage. The midnights/r&r e/road warriors, etc.

    Granted, the action , storylines etc were better. But this would way to fill the hour plus bring a little more attention house shows. Why should anyone go to a house show if the belts never . . e-e-ever, change hands.

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  109. There's no daily thread, so I'm putting this here, but watching the Christmas RAW from '97 on the network and this kid 100% has to be an Uso.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ps5bPOobnYo

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  110. It's only lame/cool to smarks. And they (we?) are a fickle bunch who never like anything.

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  111. Smarks are wrestling's hipsters.

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  112. I was watching that the other day and know who you mean and agree entirely.

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  113. Cena vs Orton,one more timeMay 16, 2015 at 11:06 AM

    Gonna rewatch mad max tomorrow because it was just that awesome.Best action movie I have ever seen(yes,I include the first Die Hard movie in that list).

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  114. Yeah, aside from looking exactly like a younger version, kid's also wearing a 49ers starter, they're from the Bay Area.

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  115. Sports Ilustrated has a feature up on Botchamania. Congratulations Maffew. We all feel slightly more famous in your presence.

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  116. I think there is one where she gangbangs pornstar versions of Vince, HHH, Rock, Austin, etc in a makeshift ring.


    Soooo, wrestling!

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  117. I don't watch Raw or Smackdown because I have currently no legal avenue to do so. I just see PPVs, Superstars and Main Event (and NXT).

    So the 3 hour RAWs are recapped in like half an hour, the matches are just as good in terms of wrestling quality on those shows, and I don't get burned out on the main event wrestlers because I usually only get to see them wrestle once a month.

    I haven't missed anything significant in months and it makes everything much more enjoyable. I recommend it!

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  118. So Sandow and Axel will be known as The Meta Powers. Clever

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  119. It's the none-PPV stuff that isn't being watched eg WCCW.

    Apparently the hardcore fan base of the WWE love PPVs and original content such as Total Divas more than they do eg Clash Of The Champions 2.

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  120. kbwrestlingreviewsMay 16, 2015 at 11:19 AM

    I don't know why anyone is surprised that the classic content doesn't do well. If you look at the list of top ten best performing shows, they're almost always the stuff WWE promotes. It's the Springer Show, the podcasts, of course the pay per views and NXT. If WWE promoted the fact that there's old school stuff or a pay per view airing, more fans would watch it.

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  121. Gotta be. Santa was Brooklyn Brawler right?

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  122. But the report says the opposite about network users and old content.

    So maybe non-wrestling content intended to appeal to the same core demographic would work.

    eg my missus would fucking love it if she could easily watch the movie Austin made with Steven Seagal whilst we wait for NXT to start.

    Instead of the same 1995 era Nitro.

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  123. That's why I think on TV it's more important emphasize big angles instead of matches that go nowhere.

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  124. People just want to watch stuff that's new, not neccessarily what's best. I haven't seen Avengers, but I'll guess that objectively its not better than say Network, or Godfather Part 2, or something like that. But if you ever said to someone excited by Avengers "Why aren't you watching *good* movies from the 70s and 80s" you'd just sound like an old crank.

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  125. I mentioned this a couple of times in the past, but I was watching Raw one night and JBL mentioned that someone reminded him of Michael Hayes when Hayes and the Freebirds were together. I thought that certainly there would be a mention of seeing Hayes on the Network from the WCCW footage or even from when he was part of WCW, but no...nothing.

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  126. Maybe to skew the figures so that everyone goes "you were right WWE we will stop asking for Velocity and Heat to go up and instead watch an Original Feature on how WWE boxes are made in the WWE box factory"

    Their live schedule has to cause bias in viewing figures. And they set it. To suit their agenda.

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  127. I see the Tapout one at least once a day.

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  128. Yup, exactly. USA expecting every hour to get good ratings is why the 1-hour pre-show proposition would never work. A good chunk of the audience would eventually start skipping the pre-show entirely, which means less ratings (in prime time, no less), and less revenue.

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  129. James M. FabianoMay 16, 2015 at 11:25 AM

    If Russo is still coming to LU....maybe you'd have a point.

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  130. Three hours of jobber matches, vignettes, promos, and video packages woth a couple competitive matches would solve all of their problems. Save the big matches for the PPVs.

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  131. That doesn't sound like a good show though

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  132. D-X going down that ramp in that APC is like our generation's Moon Landing. Everyone remembers where they were, everyone remembers standing up and loudly yelling, "Yes, at last. At last WWE have won the Monday Night Wars, thanks to D-X"

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  133. Ex Machina simce it'll be out of theaters soon. Plenty of time to see MM

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  134. Oh that's nice. I want that shirt.

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  135. But it could also pull the ratings even further down.

    They can still show good matches, but not good matches. What I mean is, that during the Attitude they had matches advertised like Vince McMahon vs Steve Austin, but the match never really started. Or they had in 2000 a RAW with Angle vs HHH and Rock vs Jericho and the first match was only 6 minutes and the secone one 7 minutes. If you wanted to see the 20 minute + version, you had to buy the PPV.

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  136. I think Axel has to go full Hulk. Sandow is playing his part well enough.

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  137. "Yep Mode" Abeyance Brown ©May 16, 2015 at 11:33 AM

    He has been going full Hulk as of the past App promo.

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  138. "Yep Mode" Abeyance Brown ©May 16, 2015 at 11:34 AM

    Well, of this is the final video......

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  139. "Yep Mode" Abeyance Brown ©May 16, 2015 at 11:35 AM

    Excellent joke X- Pac in black face.

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  140. Also it needs to be said that NXT is starting to carry over some of the flaws from the main roster: why have the Dubstep Cowboys and Enzo and Cass already had a bunch of matches if we're supposed to care about Unstoppable? Why are we seeing Breeze and Itami a dozen ti.es in a month? A lot of the appeal of NXT is how different it was booked, and lately it seems like it's been bogged down by typical writing team bullshit.

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  141. "Yep Mode" Abeyance Brown ©May 16, 2015 at 11:36 AM

    Excellent joke Cleveland.

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  142. Actually, USA does dictate the content of the show to a degree. They'd never be able to get away with an hour of NXT matches. More talking segments? Holy shit, that sounds awful, but maybe. They'd need to pull similar or better ratings than Raw does now, though. As soon as they didn't? It'd be back to the status quo.

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  143. Wrestling movies, sure. But not non-wrestling content. They're always gonna be a niche product, it's wrestling. They're best when they just try and do that to the best they can.

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  144. Jobber matches were good because they featured a lot of the featured wrestlers offense, so even though it wasn't a 50/50 back and forth match it let a guy try a lot of different things and hype up his character at no one's expense. Vignettes were always entertaining and clued you in to who a character was and what his motivation is. Promos and segments such as that, as long as they don't drag on forever, are usually entertaining and tell a good story. If you don't think that sounds like a good show you must not remember when wrestling was like that.

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  145. Dana Brooke is awesome, I dunno what you guys are talking about.

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  146. Well there is another way: They HAD a big rating the RAW after Wrestlemania, but they did put Lesnar away. Here is your draw, that could get many fans back if you could see him on RAW. Combine it with maybe the nWo, DX, DDP, Sting Undertaker...

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  147. Exactly. Whenever a big PPV-quality match was announced on Raw back then, more often than not, shenanigans would ensue. One time Austin and Rock had a match in May '99 that was actually a trap and they got annihilated by the Corporate Ministry as soon as the bell rang.

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  148. I think NXT is awesome, but I refuse to believe that The Vaudevillians is a great gimmick.

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  149. Dana Brooke's entire schtick of the prototypical Diva is genius. Some people are just haters.

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  150. But the product is ice-cold at the moment. Maybe angling the network as more of 'the guys network' might help attract some casual fans who might, to quote JR, 'appreciate the genre' more if the wrestling was more of a 'bonus'.


    It'd horrify the hardcore fans who just want a richer and deeper archive. But the figures suggest that there's no money to be had there.

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  151. hate us cause they ain't us

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  152. I couldn't disagree any harder than I am right now.

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  153. "I used to be with it. But then they changed what 'it' was. Now what I'm with isn't 'it,' and what's 'it' seems weird and scary. It'll happen to YOU!"

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  154. You're right people want to keep up with current events movies sports music people don't dig for older stuff which is weird because it's so easy to find stuff these days with youtube and the Internet

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  155. That's......actually really good. That had to be something they came up with themselves, because there's no way Creative is that witty.

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  156. If anything, that's the kind of crazy, obscure hokey shit they SHOULD be adding to the Network.

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  157. Or grab them for $1.99 at Wal-Mart.

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  158. She's also a pretty good athlete and hot. She'll get better.

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  159. Man that's an incredible gimmick are they still a thing? I haven't read about them in forever

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  160. For 3 hours I think it would die a ratings death so brutal that merely to glance for a second at the hourly breakdowns could cause a man to go blind. Nitro killed that kind of wrestling TV, whatever the solution is it can't be that.

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  161. Only WITW is capable of a word vomit email like this.

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  162. And worst of all? It wouldn't cost much at all. Have a .com recap up after the show or push an update via the app. Pick 2 or 3 things from each episode and have a companion "if you liked this tonight, you'll love this from then".


    It all comes back to the problem that is killing the product. Vince doesn't like wrestling, he likes movies and reality and "entertaining" shit. He'd rather pour money into anything but the product

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  163. strong rumors have Joe debuting vs Owens next week as a surprise....

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  164. I can't believe this come from someone with "Gentleman" in his name.

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  165. It's already been debunked a hundred time

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  166. Wich make yo ua terrible human being

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  167. That was a long fucking time ago,fans today don't even have a frame of reference. Look at Ryback's initial ascent to see proof it can still work. You're dead wrong.

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  168. WWE's record of creating stars post-OVW, or more accurately post-Laurinaitis handling talent is abysmal. That you mention Rusev and Bray Wyatt as 'success' stories says it all.

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  169. See the rumor I saw just said he would appear at the END of the show not in a match on the show.

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  170. I heard that his back fat would show up at the show and the rest of him next month.

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  171. Worst_in_the_WorldMay 16, 2015 at 1:03 PM

    You are such a tremendous loser

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  172. Worst_in_the_WorldMay 16, 2015 at 1:04 PM

    Mad max is kinda bombing at the box office though. Which seems crazy since it's a big summer blockbuster actually getting amazing reviews.

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  173. Whatever you say.

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  174. Lesnar wouldn't be around at all if he was offered a deal that had him on Raw constantly. He refuses to do that. Taker is too banged up to do that. Sting is a little bit of both. DX's drawing power is dead after 19 reunions over the past 6 years, plus Shawn's retired and enjoying it. DDP's got his yoga business and what on Earth would you have the combined 463-year-old nWo, only one of whom is conceivably in wrestling shape, DO?

    Not to mention that the reason all these guys get attention when they show up is specifically BECAUSE they're not around all the time.

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  175. Captain AmarvicaMay 16, 2015 at 1:23 PM

    He upvoted himself with the TimeandtheRani account he's spent all morning spamming the board with.

    But sure, you're the asshole man. Lmao.

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  176. I think everyone here has recognized that this is certainly not the same audience of fans that have always been there. Even if you're 18 years old and watching you were a baby during the "classic era" of Attitude. My little brother is 13. We're pretty close for all intents of purposes. He's been a wrestling fan for a few years now. I have the network, I gave him the Network for Christmas last year. He spends the night at my house most weekends and he has zero interest in the "classic" stuff. I tried to show him Hogan/Rock from WMX8 he had no interest. I tried showing him Wrestlemania V he had no interest. But he watches the countdown shows and the top ten stuff. I don't think its as easy as "if they would push the classic stuff people would watch it". The people that are old enough to remember it we're in our 30's or older. If we want to watch it we don't need someone telling us "hey check out that cool stuff you watched as a kid". The majority of kids younger than that aren't going to be interested in watching it. There is a ton of statistical data talking about the "digital age kids" and their short attention spans. The problem is that people on here are either too old to fall into that demographic or if they do fall in that demographic they're the exception to the rule so they can't seem to comprehend that there is a large majority of people that just aren't interested in "old shit".

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  177. You actually made this point better than me but its what I was saying earlier. My little brother has ZERO interest in even Wrestlemania 18 or 19 let alone attitude era stuff or stuff from Primetime or WCCW. The amount of people that give a shit about anything even before 2000 is so small I don't think any amount of pushing is going to make a ten year old kid say "yeah I wanna watch that". Its difficult for most of us to understand this though because we enjoy it so we assume younger people would.

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  178. Another fat joke ... tremendous

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  179. The picture I saw he actually looked somewhat in shape I was shocked.

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  180. pot calling the kettle

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  181. I can't believe others aren't seeing it this way either

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  182. Very true. Also, I think rewatching matches you already know the outcomes of doesn't hold much appeal for the majority of fans.

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  183. Tito vs Harley on Prime Time Wrestling #83 is a boss match. *** 1/4 (weak finish hurt rating)

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  184. Whenever a wrestler shares a pic of them bring in shape, they are guaranteed to be twice as fat.

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  185. Maybe, but it can also serve as a reminder why you love that match/angle/wrestler in the first place. It can be a cool way to have a little get together
    , watch some matches and just shoot the shit

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  186. My solution: Turn the Network into a new version of 24/7 and then go back to pay-per-view. That would inflict lots of pain, but quite frankly, they aren't going to ever get the sub numbers they want for this thing. It's sad that 24/7 actually had a better content rollout (and some more interesting concepts) than what the Network offers.

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  187. LU suck big time tho

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  188. Wrong. I hope you were never an investigative reporter.

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