http://i.ytimg.com/vi/U5MW4GCokRM/maxresdefault.jpgHappy Father's Day!!
I was really enjoying Bash at the Beach here until Woman came out begging Chris Benoit to stop beating on Kevin Sullivan.
Happy Father's Day to all the dads on here instead of with their kids. Enjoy the day.
lol so passive aggressive.
I like how the first two posts in this thread are Benoit related.
I actually meant enjoy the day on here haha
It's surprisingly pretty hard to find a pic of Benoit and his kid celebrating at WM 20.
Did that get cut out of the network?
I anticipate that the first weekend of July (WWE's Tokyo show and NJPW Dominion) will provide a fair number of very good matches.
Probably. I was actually thinking about checking out that show today.
Tough prediction: AJ loses to OKada.
Happy Father's Day, everybody!
Neville/Jericho should be good. Brock/Kofi will be fun. Owens/Balor should be excellent. Other than that, meh.
AJ Styles defending the IWGP title.
The first season of It's Always Sunny is weird. Dee telling the guys she loves them without any ulterior motive?! WHAT IS THIS UNIVERSE?!
IDGAF about that Jap commie rasslin'.
While searching for Benoit pics, I found one of his other son visiting WWE not too long ago with Jericho. Christ, that must have been so awkward.
Hmm, not sure. So Tanahashi to win G1 in that case?
That's my theory, WK10 will be the final chapter of the Okada/Tanahashi saga.
I hope Owens/Balor headlines. It would make sense.
I'd be shocked if it doesn't.
My random Sunday movie is Muppet Treasure Island.In no way a bad movie, it just seems to be missing something. especially compared to the previous Muppet movie, Muppet Christmas Carol.
It would make sense, but I think it's too soon for Okada to get his mojo/title back. What happens if the incumbent champion wins G1?
He can pick his opponent at WK.
Thinking about calling the ex but I know it's just going to turn into another fight. That's if she actually answers the phone. Can't wait until the kids graduate. Already planning the promo I'm going to cut on that bitch. Happy Fathers Day!
The Japanese aren't communists.
Ah, well that's not bad, but I don't see Okada winning again. Tanahashi recently looks like his back's ruined and his struggled against Yano, so him winning G1 feels like it would out of nowhere.
My dark horse picks are Ibushi and Nakamura.
I'd love Ibushi vs Nakamura for the title at WK10 with Ibushi going over.
I think we're gonna see an unification match at King of Pro Wrestling, Goto/AJ for the HW and IC titles. They need to call Suzuki again for a rematch.
The perfect Father's Day movie! Read my review of One Man's Justice starring Brian Bosworth right here:http://bmoviememories.blogspot.com/2015/06/one-mans-justice-1995.html
Happy Father's Day Dude, it'll get better.
How come? I'll be honest, I've switched off from NJPW in the last few months, partly because Suzuki Gun > Bullet Club.
Goto called AJ once. Once Suzuki ends the whole invasion he can go back to home and challenge AJ. Yes, Suzuki looks like a better boss.
Just now noticed Natasha Leggero plays one of the strippers in Charlie Gets Crippled
Happy Father's Day to all the dads and dads-to-be here at the Blog. To those of you without your dads today, here's to them. If you're a woman, too bad, should have been born with a pecker.Just kidding, lol. There are no girls on the Internet.
I see Ibushi in a very careful transition into top babyface. I wonder if New Japan will do it, seeing as he's not homegrown.
He sold out the Sumo Hall in a average card. Gedo & Jado will not look down for that fact, they're not VKM.
Brad Maddox's gimmick on the live event shows has been coming out to CM Punk's music and having similar gear. I can't wait til that gets to TV.
Bret Hart rates Samoa Joe 4 out of 10.."It’s (Joe’s Muscle Buster) extremely dangerous. The move that Samoa Joe did was reckless, and the way they rushed that match beforehand in the back without giving Tyson time to prepare was mistake....It’s a shame that a guy who is that talented and given so much to the company is hurt, but I just hope it’s not so serious that his career is over.”
I get he's an internet darling, but in his first match in the big leagues he seriously injures his opponent. He needs to change his style and/or needs further seasoning before he is ready to go.
That particular Muscle Buster did look vicious tho.
Did Brett actually say this.Because lol. If Joe's a 4, Tysons Kidd is a 2.
The comment is totally fair given the circumstances.
how many wrestlers has Tyson Kidd seriously injured?
Well I'm sure they have the rights to Cult of Personality for a while so might as well use it while you got it.
This discussion exists related to a company that employs Sheamus & Ryback?
How many ***** matches has Tysons Kidd had? If you want the company perspective: how fans have bought a ticket to see Tysons fucking kidd? How many times has Kidd sold out his merch?
And Miz who can't catch a diving opponent half the time.Wrestling is dangerous in general, Joe is not an excessively dangerous worker.
Two wrestlers who are considerably over and have wrestled hundred of matches at the level of WWE are far superior to a guy known only to indy fans who managed to injure somebody in his FIRST match.
So that makes it ok for him to be seriously injured because he's just a midcarder?
Honestly I like the first season the best.Felt very real, like these assholes actually could exist and own a bar in philly. That made their actions way more brutal (and darkly hilarious) compared to when Devito came in playing a cartoon character.
Please point out when I claimed it was done intentionally.
Again, ACCIDENT. Those happen. How many other guys has Joe injured with that move? Last I checked, it's ZERO. ZILCH. NOBODY.
Especially since he looks like a drug-free version of his father. That resemblance is freaky.
So then just about every move should be banned, because it's hurt someone at one time or another.
"He needs to change his style and/or needs further seasoning before he is ready to go."
Well now you're being silly.
No? I'm addressing Bret calling Joe a bad worker compared to Kidd because of a freak accident.By no metric is Tysons Kidd proven himself to be better at wrestling than Samoa Joe.
This the Benoit son who is training to wrestle?I don't think he has a prayer trying to get decent bookings unless maybe he can convince a japenese company to let him be a young boy.
Are you reading the comment before you post?At no point in the quote you posted does it mention intent or fault.
Punk would be making money if they did.
I agree. It's decent but lacks a certain something
Booker T looked like a Wu-Tang member with the circa-2001 short dreads. Watching No Mercy 2001
It does mention fault, because you are suggesting it won't happen if he "changes his style" in spite of his style being no more dangerous than the average wrestlers.
Which point is false?We've seen from Sting that failing to draw in the main event of TNA does not mean you're going to be a success in WWE.
Are you like, just British Vince Jordan or did someone piss in your cheerios today.
He might be better than Cody Hall.
And it's posts like this that honestly make me want to see something horrible happen to WWE, just to shut people like you up."HURR DURR WWE OR NOBODY." Fuck you.
How many other wrestlers on the WWE roster seriously injured their opponent in their first match for the company?If he is average, then you must be able to provide a long lit.
like the same Sting that got a ton of great reactions and had a main event match at 31?
Bret doesn't call Joe a bad worker.
In fairness, that whole angle after SurSer was a stinking DUD. But the blame pretty much goes everywhere but Sting.
He seems like a perfect fit for a mask gimmick.
Vince Russo's master plan while secretly working for TNA last year:"I remember it was at this exact time, that I called TNA exec, John Gaburick, and pitched him a major storyline based on the reality of the situation. What I pitched was that due to the uncertainties of TNA continuing on Spike, other wrestling organizations would take advantage of the opportunity by showing up on IMPACT, in an effort to prove to the Network, that they were the ones that were worthy for the spot instead. My pitch was that ROH, Japan’s Wrestle 1 (who TNA was already working with at the time) and Jeff Jarrett’s Global Force Wrestling invade TNA’s time slot in an effort to take it for themselves. I can vividly remember John hearing me out and saying, “Let me think on that and get back to you.” It almost goes without saying that John never got back to me."Holy shit, an invasion angle! This has literally never been done in the history of pro-wrestling!
I enjoyed that feud.
Yeah, kind of my thoughts. Wrestling's different status in Japenese pop culture and removal from the country of the tragedy would hopefully let the kid find his own style.Or NJPW would have him ape his dad's move set because this is a company that uses swastica's on a ppv poster. Japan don't give a fuck.
Tyson Kidd is a bigger name, has made more money, wrestles in front of bigger audiences on bigger shows for a bigger company.Leaving aside the technical ability which is subjective. By pretty much any metric Tyson Kidd has achieved more than Samoa Joe thus is a better wrestler.
It's also complete bullshit because Jeff didn't announce GFW at that point.
Yeah, Bret's got a strong case of confirmation bias going here. He also might just be less than impartial, too.
Hopefully just not a Pegasus Kid mask!
Did you not see the same show as the rest of the world?
A guy got injured in a match that was thrown together by bookers shortly before a show, and the two wrestlers involved got little if any time to practice together in the ring. These are all factors to the injury far more relevant than the amount of "seasoning" Joe has.The far more seasoned Sheamus just this year injured Daniel Bryan in his first match back from an injury of his own.
You are stupid. And with that, anyone else who wants to continue this silly discussion can feel free. I'm getting out before more brain cells pop from the utter stupidity.
No, Wild Pegasus.
I'm stupid for pointing out facts?
To interject a sane point into a conversation that's clearly going off the rails:Bret's been very vocal in the past that protecting your opponent is the most important part of being a good worker. That's why Bret always brings up "never injuring people" as a reason he thinks he's the best worker ever. His comments reflect that stance.
Wait, when did they pull that one off? I want to see said poster.
Maybe Centaur Jack will work better for him.
You're missing the point. Whether it happens in his first match or his thousandth it still occured do to a freak chance and has no statistical baring on the likelihood it will happen again.Further more, it still wasn't Joe's first match. I disagree with your Tysons Kidd has accomplished more shananagins but fine, whatever. Joe's safety record on the indys is valid because it's the same move he did on the indys with no injuries caused. Going to wwe doesn't magically make the move more dangerous.
You say that like it's a bad thing.
It appeared to be a freak accident. Did Bret blame whomever he was wrestling when he cracked his sternum?I guess what I'm asking is whether he would feel the same way if Tyson was injured on any other kind of back bump.
He never said the 4/10 thing.
This seems like an irrelevant argument that will just mutate the discussion farther from the original principle.
I really wish the wrestling fan base, casual and smark alike could collectively decide to just pretend Vince Russo doesn't exist. The baggage far outweighs any positive insights he may have, considering he's a known troll that makes controversial comments just to get noticed. The sooner we all agree to ignore him, the sooner he goes away.
That honestly is a pretty good hook for an invasion angle tho.
He never said Joe was a bad worker and actually said he was a good guy in the article. He said the move was dangerous, though.
I think not injuring guys is an important part of of you never being a worker too, but it doesn't matter that you never caused an injury if you're boring. You're still a bad worker.
I dunno...how many does it take? Kidd's going to be out for a year.
I find it weirdly funny :(
Aaaand if it's true that the Joe/Kidd match was given very little lead time, they should've done a different finish, especially involving a move thst needs some preparation
He didn't blame Bravo, but he was pretty pissed about having to work with him.
You read that like it's a bad thing. WWE Booker T was awesome from Day 1.
Right. Bret's point seems to be that the whole segment was rushed and unsafe. It's how he grades a subjective subject.
I don't mean to criticize you or anything for posting this message. It's more of a 'Vince Russo loves to get people talking about Vince Russo' thing, and there's an army of people that love to argue with the guy when he says something (predictably) stupid.
lol Kidd is not a bigger name. I like Kidd but he is a career jobber.
By your metric, Britney Spears is a better musician than Nirvana, Bob Marley, and Aretha Franklin. STUPID. STUPID. STUPID.
Samoa Joe has never been on a major wrestling show & has next to no name value Sheamus is the same age yet has been featured on probably a hundred PPVs, held the World title, had major feuds and made the WWE a large amount of money?Can you not see the difference between them?Just because Samoa Joe is a IWC favourite and has had well reported matches in the past in the indies & Japan, does not mean he is of equal or greater value to WWE than Sheamus.
He was the best wrestling king ever.
Do you realize wrestling is a work and winning or losing a fake match doesn't determine success in this business?
I'm with you, but if it was rushed, how's that fall on Joe? That's the only part I don't understand about Bret's argument.
She's not. That's a given
But would the creativity of the angle offset the potential danger of exposing your fans to other products who you are competing with in a crowded marketplace? The WWE is head and shoulders above everyone else, and even they don't dare risk turning fans on to alternative products.
And my response to Bret is "One injury in over a decade does not make a move 'dangerous'."
I think it's in using the muscle buster with little preparation. Bret's argument seems to be that it's a very dangerous move.
Not according to Sir Wright.
Yeah. You tell BRET HART which wrestling moves are dangerous and which aren't.
Which was the start of the argument.It's really not, it's a pretty standard back bump.
You honestly believe that more wrestling fans have heard of Samoa Joe, than Tyson Kidd, the guy who was just tag team champion?Despite what Vince Russo tells you, most wrestling fans aren't online and just watch the product on tv, they have never heard of Samoa Joe, just like the first time they saw Neville was when he appeared on Raw.
Well, the objective data disproves his argument. The move looked the same as it always did, so I can't see how or why he got hurt. These things happen. Benoit blew out his neck on a superplex.
Then EVERY move should be banned by now, they've all caused some sort of injury by now. And while we're at it, just ban pro wrestling and sports entertainment, and sports, and movies...(See where this goes? If there's a real injury history with a move, sure, reduce/remove it. But do NOT let a freak injury to ANYONE, no matter their level, cause a move to be removed.)
"most wrestling fans aren't online"Who the fuck do you know that isn't online in the year 2015?
You're actually arguing that safety is less important than flash?
I guess that's why Joe sold out all his merch while Brass Ring Club shirts sit on the shelves.
Why? Those two have an "injury history" much longer than Joe's.
I think Wright's inherent argument is wrong, but Kidd is more well known than Joe. Seven years on the main roster plus being featured on the reality show means more people know him than Joe I'd be willing to wager.
"By no metric is Tysons Kidd proven himself to be better at wrestling than Samoa Joe" I was pointing out several metrics that Tyson Kidd is clearly Samoa Joes superior.
Accidents and injuries happen even with the best wrestlers. I mean, look at Owen and Austin at Summerslam '97.
Don't start this one.The fact that the "IWC" no consists of every wrestling fan over ten is something people can't deal with.The Internet is so pervasive that the only way you don't see anything about wrestling on it is if you're not that big a fan.
He did the most with the King gimmick itself than anyone since Savage. Just brilliant work.
That's very true. It bothers the shit out of me that Ryback and Sheamus hurt guys and get rewarded with pushes.
Samoa Joe HAS SOLD TICKETS to shows. The number is greater than zero, even if it's not thousands. Can you say the same for Kidd? Because I damn sure wouldn't. Tyson Kidd not being on a card will not cause people to ask for refunds.
But having to have the Hogan & the rest of the now, as well as HBK and DX out to cover for the fact you can't work a match and the fans don't give a shit despite you being built for months, is a good indication of lack of success.
Right. But we're discussing The Muscle Buster vis a vis as a dangerous move or not and what proportion of being a "good worker" is protection of your opponent. I love The Ryback and I'm not going to pretend he's a good worker.This is just saying somebody injures people for the sake of saying it with no context relevant to the convo.
No one bought a ticket to see Tysons Kidd.Thousands have paid to see Joe. Being the jobber everyone saw lose before the Cena match doesn't make you more successful a draw.
I'm not a fan of Booker's King gimmick. Wasn't watching at the time, but whenever I come across it, it seems lame.
The problem with it is the TNA fanbase. Their live crowds probably would have cheered for the invaders, while their online fans would be openly hostile to it. It'd have just been a mess, and they'd kill it right away by having guys swap sides, swerve, betray, etc.
I would ask for a refund. Tyson Kidd is great!
Finished the second season of the Clone Wars. First half is great but boy did that season fall of a cliff and get terrible in the 2nd half.
This is one of the worst starts to a daily thread in the history of our sport.
In fairness, Austin specifically told Owen NOT to do that piledriver variant.
I mean, Bret used Piledrivers in his career and those are banned now. I don't know where he gets the idea the Muscle Buster is dangerous.
Ok, but knowing who he is doesn't immediately translate into people paying money to see you. People know who Kidd is and don't care. Joe has at least sold some tickets and t-shirts in his career.
That match was insanely entertaining. You are a crazy person.
This went off the rails really fast in EVERY CONCEIVABLE DIRECTION!We have Benoit pictures for Father's Day as a starter!!!
I actually agree that the Muscle Buster can be dangerous. But in Joe's case, he has no history of injuring others with it. And few others use it.
I wasn't watching as actively then as I am now, but I love it. A heel wins a prize and lets it blow his ego way out of proportion, plus a ton of good comedy. Compared to some of the other kings, it stands apart.
Now I feel bad :(
In theory, a piledriver is way safer. When done right, the head never touches the mat.
Yeah but Bret was wrestling at a time where they weren't zeroing in on concussions
More hardcores know who Joe is. More casuals know who Kidd is.If you showed their pictures to non-fans more (though still a small amount) would recognize Kidd probably from Total Divas than Joe.
Adam Wright needs more seasoning. Can't work BoD style.
And in that article about Bret talking about Joe, he says that Owen was very reckless in that situation.
Now, if you want someone that WOULD need a new finisher in WWE: AJ Styles. As much as I like the Styles Clash, it's history, level of risk, and general unfamiliarity compared to most other moves (specifically head positioning as opposed to almost every other move) would make it not an "if someone gets hurt", but a "when someone gets hurt" prospect. One that cannot be accepted, quite honestly.
I am not arguing that more people have heard of Joe than Kidd.I'm arguing that the people who have heard of Kidd still won't pay a dime to see him, so what difference does it make if the whole damn world knows his name.
The problem I think was that they rushed the preparation of the match. Less planning means more accidents happen. Has Kidd ever taken a Muscle Buster? Is Joe used to a WWE size ring yet?
I really liked the main event of that ppv.
In theory, a Muscle Buster is very safe. Accidents happen, right?
You're insane. It was one of the best things in wrestling at the time.
That's why they made Crash Holly stop doing it in WWF.
Having a different opinion from the majority is not a bad thing.
Pretty sure he did blame Dino in his book.
Having a wrong opinion is tho.
This is all your fault. lol
The Styles Clash is still well below the REALLY dangerous stuff I've seen on indys, bit yeah--too much risk for a WWE move.
Didn't he just get knocked off the apron? I seriously can't remember clearly.
Your metric is "he's been in front of more people." If I went wrestle for the mythical "UNIVERSAL WRESTLING CORPORATION", and was seen by one billion people every week, despite my inability to do more than punch and kick, and had a complete lack of promo skills to boot, would that still make me a better wrestler than Kidd?
Yeah but he kept trying to pick up Bret or some shit.
Opinions can never be wrong, they are subjective, they can only be different. Predictions however can be right or wrong and just like Sting I predict that Joe will not be a major star in WWE.
I'm at Rock-Jericho
Yet you were bragging about facts in your arguments
"Opinions can never be wrong"The rallying cry of dumb people.
Four million wrestling fans know Tyson Kidd, the talented undercard guy. Another million reality TV fans know him as the guy who likes cats more than his hot wife.Two million wrestling fans know Samoa Joe, a top indy guy and small company PPV headliner.Yeah, more people "know" Tyson Kidd. Doesn't mean any of them hold him in higher regard than the people who do know Joe hold him.
Got knocked off and hit the railing pretty hard. It would take like a few minutes for everyone to realize what's going on
No, I'm arguing that Bret Hart isn't the greatest wrestler ever just because he never heard a single person. A dangerous wrestler should never be allowed to wrestle but a freak accident or two doesn't tarnish the quality of an amazing wrestler to me.
Oh yeah...nobody knew how seriously he was hurt, so Dino kept trying to get him back in the ring. I remember now.
"My opinion is the Muslims should apologize for killing Jesus."Opinions can be objectively wrong.
He is a crazy person, but thay Mania match was still dog shit.
Right. But that doesn't appear to be the argument he was making. He was saying Tyson Kidd is more "well-known." He got there through bad logic but he's still technically correct.
Booker T ain't nuthin' ta fuk wit, that's for sure
Yes, my opinion is based on fact, when people make a factual argument, I counter with the correct facts.
So opinion based on erronous fact can be wrong
I don't think I would condemn Joe after the Kidd injury but I hope he's careful in the future. He can't really throw guys around like he used to with Styles and Daniels. If the bodies start piling up, then there's a definite Joe problem.
Just because 4 mil watch Raw, doesn't mean 4 mil know who Kidd is. Just like people who never watched TNA or the indies know who Joe is.
I think it's great! It's finally a real discussion about wrestling!
End of discussion right there
Just because you are a racist and an idiot does change the meaning of your words.
No, he's trying to call Kidd a "better wrestler" than Joe, using that "more people have seen him" logic. And I call that "argument" lazy bullshit.
Charles Robinson's ref shirt looks like a 1970s Reds away jersey.
**** all day long.