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"Death threats" notwithstanding...

Scott--

Do you think there is ANY possible Wrestlemania VII main event (which is to say, any Hogan opponent) that could have put a hundred thousand butts in seats, or was Vince pissing up a rope from day one?  For that matter, any chance Wrestlemania VI could have punched into 100k territory if they'd held it at a larger venue?  Sure, it was a one match card, but that one match was a watershed event at the time.

 
​No, the business was too cold.  I think Hogan vs. Savage in 89 could have sold 100K if they didn't have their stupid Trump Plaza show already sold​ and frankly I'm shocked they wasted the match on that crowd.  But Hogan-Warrior wasn't the kind of once-in-a-lifetime dream match, complete with years of backstory, that Hogan-Andre was, and it just wasn't going to hit that level.  I don't know what Vince thought was going to headline WM7 and draw that amount of people.  Maybe if they had kept Hogan off TV after the Earthquake attack and had his big return be that show?  Other than that I can't even fan-wank a scenario that draws that big of a crowd.  

Comments

  1. Unless Flair debuted a year early and challenged Hogan. But even then who knows

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  2. Eh, I am sure Trump paid Vince enough cash to make hosting Mania V in Atlantic City worthwhile.

    "I don't know what Vince thought was going to headline WM7 and draw that amount of people. "

    Funny, we've been saying the same about WM32 for months...

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  3. I always thought the original plan was to run the Hogan/Warrior rematch at WM 7. Warrior was supposed to be as big, if not bigger in popularity than Hogan. In theory, the rematch should have been the biggest match in history. But Warrior just wasn't the guy. I wonder if they had run a Hogan/Savage rematch at 7, how that would have done. Probably better than a Hogan/Warrior rematch I'm guessing. Just switch Sgt. Slaughter and Macho Man's roles in the Royal Rumble match.

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  4. In 1991, there was Hogan and everyone else.

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  5. Warrior-Hogan 2, if they built it up where there was tension all year between the two instead of them being buddy buddy might have possibly worked, like a Mega-Powers kind of thing.

    Still doubtful.

    They didn't have a heel that could have headlined, it was just Hogan, then Warrior....and then in a major distant third they had their heels like Savage, Slaughter, and Earthquake at the time

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  6. Nah. Wrestlemania 3 didn't even come close to 100,000 in actual real number terms. Maybe if they held Mania 7 in North Korea and everyone was forced to attend, but what kind of victory is that?

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  7. Turn Warrior?

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  8. Did Vince only make Slaughter champion because of his dick wagging contest with Verne? I never understood why he was champion, even as a kid I thought, "this old, out of shape fucker should not be champion".

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  9. Absolutely.

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  10. but what about The Big Dog, The Juggernaut vs. The Architect

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  11. a Communist victory

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  12. I remember my Uncle Jim saying he could kick Slaughter's ass. I believed my Uncle.

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  13. Really, that would have been their only shot.

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  14. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogJune 24, 2015 at 7:17 AM

    It was never going to fill the place, but I feel like Hogan vs Warrior II was the closest they could get. Even then, it was diminishing returns and there was no doubt who would win. Turning Warrior changes the dynamic slightly but Its still a rematch. If only Hogan stayed out in 1990, made his big return in the Rumble and triumphed at Mania there may have been more excitement, but Hulk never stayed away

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  15. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogJune 24, 2015 at 7:20 AM

    The Flair thing is more hindsight I think. Did any WWF mark see Flair on the level the NWA southern fans did? Its a dream match, but Flair wasnt FLAIR yet to the WWF demographic

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  16. Flair/Hogan with months of build could have but that's just a theoretical dream scenario. But even then I'm not so sure. Business was just too slow for everyone in 1991.

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  17. Hogan/Warrior at WM 6 would have sold as many tickets as a venue would hold. People forget that the Main Event in 1990 did a bigger rating that the famous Mega Powers Explode! version of the show.


    But by 1991, they had nothing to get to 100k. Although, if you read the old Observers, Undertaker vs. Warrior post-WM in 1991 set the house show circuit on fire. Maybe re-doing Savage/Hogan one more time with Taker/Warrior underneath?

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  18. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogJune 24, 2015 at 7:25 AM

    I know we just saw Hogan lose clean the previous year, but I never bought Sarge as a threat, even as an 8 yr old mark

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  19. That title win of his was all Savage

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  20. As a young kid who only watched WWF at the time, there definitely wasn't much of an appreciation of Flair as some sort of dream match. I just thought it was another sleazy heel and had no real knowledge of his background.

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  21. Nah, it was the war. Slaughter's initial gimmick in 1990 - Cold War holdover who loves America & still hates Russia - was actually pretty interesting.

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  22. I thought the Savage/Sherri dynamic is one they never fully explored until the Warrior feud. Like if Savage was that much of a dick to Hogan, maybe costing him a match vs. Earthquake, if that could've worked. Like Hogan vs. Savage in a Career Match?

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  23. I think Vince really just miscalculated public support for the war. Even people who supported it weren't rabid about it to the point where something like Turncoat Sarge was going to enrage the nation.


    If anything, people were becoming more cynical and saw through the carny nonsense that Vince was peddling.

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  24. I think it was more the carny nonsense. Like if Slaughter (or someone else) had been aligned with Iraq previously and then the Gulf War happened, it would make sense.


    But Slaughter's 1990 gimmick was that he loved America and hated the fact they weren't still in the Cold War - like he was literally like, "America should be at war!" at SummerSlam 1990. So then America goes to war and he defects to Iraq?? Who was going to buy that?

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  25. What I mean is, Vince took Slaughter -Verne's only "draw"- and made him champion while the AWA went out of business. As if to say, I can do with your top guy what you couldn't, that is, headline and draw as a champion.

    Of course, Slaughter being a draw as WWF champion is debatable, but I'm sure Vince thought anti-America Slaughter would draw.

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  26. I always felt that way about Dusty Rhodes. He was just a couple years before my time, and behind the camera when I started watching WCW, but I knew Flair, Sting, Luger and The Steiners.

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  27. Clark O'BrienJune 24, 2015 at 7:54 AM

    Same here, I would've marked out more for a member of Demolition because I'd never seen anything of Flair beforehand. He just looked like some old guy in a silly robe.

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  28. Somewhere I heard Warrior talking about turning heel during the summer of 92 during the 2nd Savage feud. Heel Warrior would have ruled.

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  29. Or turn HOGAN, make a match at Summer Slam 90 what Hogan wins, and then at WM VII make the rematch with Warrior winning. Just like when Austin won his second title at WM.

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  30. Flair was never gonna sell 100K ever in WWF, no matter how many months build up. For Hogan to lose to someone as small as Flair you'd need a 2 year angle like with Savage, and even then Savage was well known before he got put with Hogan.

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  31. Vince took every draw from Verne. He would never risk his company to stick it to the AWA in 1991.

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  32. That's true, I guess it was more the military character, and if he could stick it to Verne as well, so be it.

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  33. Flair vs Hogan was more of a dream matchup for the WCW audience than the WWF's.

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  34. Flair wasn't big enough to the WWF fans at the time. The match drew in WCW because Flair was already a legend to their fans and everyone knew who Hogan was regardless.

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  35. Hogan vs Slaughter turned ended up having some good matches during their feud including the Mania one but I think their feud would have done better in the mid 80s where Sarge had the GI Joe fame going. Instead of the Iraq shit, he could've just been the drill sgt heel character he used to be.

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  36. I don't think anyone believed there was a chance Sarge was leaving Mania 7 as the champion.

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  37. It seemed that the casual wrestling fan as kind of getting tired of Hogan anyway but 1991. They were clearly ready to accept Warrior winning a year earlier. You just simply didn't have the volume of established major stars to draw a crowd like that in a place like Los Angeles.

    It's important to remember that you didn't have international crowds flocking to WrestleMania back then, like you do now. WrestleManias 3 and 6 drew massive crowds largely because Canada had such a massive wrestling fanbase, and both sites were favorable to draw that audience. Los Angeles in 1991 was good for about what it drew for WrestleMania 7, 10,000 - 15,000 or so. Vince should have known that the Coliseum was never going to work. I assume his mindset at the time was that every larger-than-life idea he had until that point had worked somehow, so that one would too one way or another.

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  38. There was a huge backlash with the media. Vince got CRUSHED by S.I., the N.Y. Daily News, the L.A. Times and other national papers

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  39. People were getting tired of Hogan, but Warrior just didn't connect like Hulk did. When the fans are booing Warrior and cheering Rick Rude, you have a problem.

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  40. What if they ran Hogan-Warrior II with a massive Warrior heel turn several months before? That could have sold out a stadium, though perhaps not 100k.

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  41. They'd have to do the casket angle much earlier. Plus, you don't want Taker losing his first major PPV match

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  42. I think the 93,000 fans is pretty spot on

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  43. No way you can turn Hulk in 1991

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  44. The more I think about it, that was a pretty damn big change in the business. Promoters used to be able to count on that kind of angle. It's what helped make Hogan in the first place.

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  45. Battle Kat LitterJune 24, 2015 at 8:50 AM

    Alongside WM8, WM7 is my favourite card to rebook. I would have preferred WM blow offs with:

    LOD v Demolition
    Rockers v Power and Glory
    Savage v Warrior (title v career)
    Duggan v Sarge
    Hogan v Quake (after a longer Hogan layoff)

    Plus Mountie electrocuting some of the D-list celebrities they wheeled out

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  46. Hogan vs Cena at Wrestlemania 7 would've been huge.

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  47. MaffewOfBotchamaniaJune 24, 2015 at 9:42 AM

    When did that happen?

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  48. Shortly after WM VI, but it continued until SummerSlam. After that, Warrior was mainly in 6 Man tags.

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  49. Doubt that would work. Hogan destroyed Savage during the post-WM V house show tour.

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  50. Yeah, but the U.S. wasn't at war when Hogan got over. The media said the WWF was using Operation Desert Storm as a way to help ticket sales.

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  51. Always thought of that. Warrior turn at Rumble doing some really overboard shit (or at least for 1991). Add LOD/Demolition and another killer match.

    Might not draw 100K, but its a start

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  52. Are these rejected names for Batman villains, with a cameo from Marvel's Juggernaut to take the fall?

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  53. I heard Warrior was asked to turn heel and he refused

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  54. After feuding with Duggan and Rhodes, nobody bought Savage as being a serious threat to Hogan.

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  55. The business was too cold to draw anything close to 100K. Even an interpromotional fantasy booked show between WWF and WCW wouldn't draw, considering WCW's own inability to sell tickets and lack of roster depth beyond a handful of guys.

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  56. Savage was hardly a threat to Warrior, but as a secondary Main Event, it was fine, and fit the story. Savage clearly isn't at the level he used to be/where Warrior is, and everything he does can't get the job done while Warrior outlasts him and practically KO's him into retirement.

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  57. I never met one person that ever thought Sarge could win.

    HULK HOGAN vs a middle aged bald guy.

    At least with the fat heels you could see a scenario, like I wouldn't want to mess with Earthquake or King Kong Bundy. But Sarge.....meh

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  58. A lot of the hype was that it was going to be a "all the rules are out the window" fight, and you can see in the match the referee blatantly ignore chair shots and Adnan interference. The only thing I can think of was Slaughter's only hope was just cheating like crazy like when he beat Warrior at the Rumble.

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  59. I was a hardcore NWA fan as a kid so I was surprised when Flair showed up and his first feud was with Piper. I didn't really know that they had history together (my wrestling fandom started around 1984, post-NWA Piper) so I thought it was weird that Flair was the NWA champ and didn't immediately get matches against the WWF champ.

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  60. Hogan should have turned in 1993 and even Hogan in his revisionist history knows he should have. Trust me, if you ever seen Hogan's Japanese promos prior to leaving the WWF -- they could have banked a heel turn if either Hogan or Vince had been willing but apathy and steroid trails killed that.

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  61. Hogan could do whatever he wanted in Japan because maybe .01% of the American audience would care at the time to track it down. He was still too popular with kids and was still making goofy children comedies to turn him heel. It was a tired formula, but Hogan's return for Mania 9 did boost the numbers compared to non-Hogan PPV's since Mania 8.

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  62. Why not have Warrior/Slaughter 2 while Savage does something to Hogan instead to cause the retirement angle. The only problem is that Savage/Hogan would have to be midcard for the famous post-match stuff to happen, and I don't see Hogan agreeing to that. Meanwhile, Slaughter retains via interference of some kind (Earthquake or Taker would be logical choices to me). At the end of show Hogan stands in at the entranceway looking at Slaughter. Hogan/Slaughter and Warrior/ whoever at Summerslam.

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