Wednesday, June 10, 2015

The New Day

Hey Scott, just thinking about the New Day and wondering if you could think of a wrestler or wrestlers who went from getting "X-Pac heat" to being legit over with the crowd in a pretty short time span?  Back around Royal Rumble time, the New Day got booed and it was never really good heat.  It was more like "Ugh, these guys again?" Almost to the point where rumors were going around that the whole gimmick would just be dropped.  A few tweaks to their gimmicks and now they are one of the better acts on RAW and people love to boo these guys.  In fact I would love the idea of Kingston winning the Money In the Bank briefcase and using the "Freebird Rule" and basically all being co-holders of the briefcase.  That would actually be a fresh idea and pretty entertaining, plus their victory celebration alone would be worth it.  However I'm guessing we're getting the more meh outcome with a Roman Reigns victory instead.  Back to my original question, can you think
 of any other wrestler or wrestlers who went from getting X-pac heat to being pretty over with the crowd in a short time span like the New Day has?  Only one I can think of is Rocky Maivia but that was a major tweak to the character and nearly a repackaging.  Can you come up with anyone else?

​Well Rocky is obviously the gold standard for that sort of thing, but I'd also submit Main Eventer HHH as another example.  Won the title in September '99 in groan-inducing manner despite no one taking him seriously as a top guy, to the point where they switched the title to Big Show at Survivor Series.  But the Stephanie wedding and Vince feud turned him around so quickly and so dramatically that they had to put the title on him for a third time by January​, at which point he was immediately a tippy-top guy for life.

66 comments:

  1. Honky Tonk Man went from bland baby face to the greatest heel IC champ of all time

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  2. 04 Edge?


    After he returned from his injury he was forced down our throat as this anit-Bischoff babyface jumping around to his cock rock 2000s music and fans, starting at Vengeance against Orton, just started shitting all over him. He took that and turned into a bitter heel that launched him to superstardom.

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  3. Roman Reigns, but like, in reverse. And now back the other way again.

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  4. X-PAC heat!

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  5. I kind of love how retroactively that weird period fits Edge's character. The end of the "Spear, spear, spear" stupidity was the promo against Christian where Edge admitted that

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  6. I understand the idea of X-Pac heat when it's a face being mercilessly booed. But heel heat is heel heat.

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  7. If you extend the question to NXT, Bo Dallas has to be in the discussion.

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  8. Few top face runs have failed like Bo Dallas.

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  9. I'm thinking Tommy Dreamer would be another example, but I can't recall if it was done on purpose, as part of a larger plan for his ECW character arc. Or was it just a happy accident like the others here?

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  10. It is kinda hard to quantity exactly the reason why people are booing. It kinda sounds the same.

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  11. Kurt Angle - when he began, he was all Rocky Maivia Part 2 (the "you suck" chant, wasn't for nothing) and IMO a complete joke, but then he won the IC Title and went to main event level really fast.

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  12. Angle was over from his first match on.

    "You shouldn't boo an American hero!!"

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  13. I think we should take exit polls from live shows.

    "What do you like best about The Ryback?"

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  14. Pretty sure you're the only one who shares that opinion. Angle was over right out of the gate.

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  15. I totally voted in favor of HTM when he had his vote of confidence. Sent in the postcard and everything. I dug the Honky Tonk Man!

    Damn shame he lost in such a lopsided vote!

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  16. I've always thought of X-Pac heat for heels is when the fans boo when a guy's music hits and then just zone out, go get popcorn or take a piss when he's in the ring or doing an interview. Like, "oh this fucking guy again, booooo. Alright, time to do something else until this over."

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  17. Silence I can get. No reaction is bad for a heel. It's the whole "I'm booing him so he'll go away, this is a bad heel" mentality I've always been confused by.

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  18. Yeah, if fans are booing throughout a heel's segment, he's doing his job. If they boo when they see him and don't do anything afterwards, that means he's doing a poor job of engaging the audience.

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  19. Too Cool. Once Rikishi started dancing they got crazy over.

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  20. Nope, Kurt Angle was a case where they wanted to debut him as a white meat babyface but had an immediate Plan B if it didn't work out. He became a heel the second the crowd booed him.

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  21. X-Pac heat continues to be one of those phrases that's overused--if a person is getting a crowd reaction, it's working. Go-away heat is an even worse term, because for the majority of wrestling fans, almost all heat is go-away heat. It's only us of the hardcore fandom that separate out "I like this guy, but I also like to boo him becaue he's good at being bad." Most fans don't think that way.

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  22. Bischoff and Edge being buddy buddy later on always amused me. Their reactions to Heyman's ONS 2005 promo are perfect. Bischoff just flipping Heyman off with that smug smile.



    "And then, there's Edge. I've got two words for you: MATT FREAKIN' HARDY!"


    *Edge mimes spitting out his beer, only to realize Heyman said 3 words, and holds up 3 fingers to the rest of the RAW/SD guys for reassurance.*


    2005 Edge was the greatest.

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  23. Don't always agree on getting a reaction is good. I was at the Thunder (or Nitro maybe, doesn't matter) where Arquette won the title. Bichoff was in the ring after the cameras stopped rolling and the crowd (most of which was there for free anyway) just booed him out of the building, but not in a good way. It was more of a "we know you're responsible for this, it's not entertaining at all, and you stink" sort of way.

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  24. Yeah seriously. They we're trying to get him over as a face at all, he was meant to be an ironic heel from the start (a guy that would've totally be a face in the 80s but things have changed). There was no plan B, this was it and it worked brilliantly b/c Kurt rules and all. When he did those vignettes prior to starting about how he lives his life by a simple set of rules, the three I's, it was clear what they were doing

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  25. Andrew ChampagneJune 10, 2015 at 8:46 AM

    The original plan for New Day was for them to be much more militant, but after the Ferguson stuff, they had to neuter them with that crappy babyface gimmick that people hated. Now that time has passed, they're finally able to give them some teeth. Have to say, I never thought I'd buy Kofi as a heel.

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  26. Agreed. Kurt was meant to be a heel. His good guy act was over the top and kind of obnoxious right away. They knew he wasn't going to get a good reaction. He was booked as a heel from the begining.

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  27. They are subtly bringing the militant stuff in but in more ironic way. Hence Xavier calling Big E the "Minister of Mass."

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  28. Vickie Guerrero.

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  29. With 'network specials' now a thing they would be a great opportunity for someone like the New Day to actually headline and a loss not actually hurting them.

    The past month or so they have been hot and the fans into them, and it seems a shame they can't take advantage of that and test them at the top of the card. Strike while the irons hot, rather than just waiting their turn when the heat could have died down.

    Granted it would have been awkward with Rollins as the champ, but I think monthly feuds at the top for guys that are connecting with the crowd no matter their position would actually feel quite fresh

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  30. "You suck" chant to his theme wasn't until waaaaayy after he had won the IC and European titles. Hell, I think it wasn't until after his initial WWE Champ reign. Watched No Way Out '01 the other day, and waited for the "you suck" during his entrance, and it was non-existent.

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  31. I'd say that Mabel got horrible "go away" heat when he won the King of the Ring back in 1995, but after he had a ****1/4 start classic as a main eventer at Summerslam against Diesel and then tore the house down feuding with the Undertaker, the fans started to respect him more. In fact by 1996 nobody even boo'd Mabel anymore.

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  32. The WWE midcard is the best it's been in a long time. It could be better but at least they are starting to do something with the midcard.

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  33. There's a difference between being a good heel and having X-pac heat. The biggest difference between the two types of heat is that good heat makes you want to see what happens next, bad heat makes you hate that you even tuned in to watch. Jar Jar Binks is a great non-wrestling example of x-pac heat.

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  34. I believe it started at some point during one of his Austin feuds in late 2001. I remember originally the fans used to chant "you suck" and then right after theyd yell "What".

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  35. Co-signed. Went from person who had no business being out there to being the best manager in the game whenever Heyman wasn't there. With two words, she drew more heat than 99% of the heels

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  36. The New Day pretty much stole Bo Dallas' gimmick and ran with it. I'm surprised nobody called them out on it seeing as how wrestlers are very protective of this kind of stuff.


    I guess it really is a new day!

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  37. Bo Dallas is far from the 1st person to have this gimmick. Kurt Angle perfected the inspirational douchebag who mistakenly thinks everyone likes him in 2000. And I'm sure many had this gimmick before angle as well

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  38. If people change the channel when a wrestler is on or don't buy tickets to see him get his ass beat. That's bad heat

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  39. They're completely different gimmicks. Dallas is positive about his opponent. He dickly encourages them to improve. New Day just preaches positivity about themselves and the crowd. Its not the same.

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  40. Super-Smarks. People that can hear people booing and determine if its good booing or bad booing.

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  41. Jar jar Binks was supposed to be a face. He was the 90s Bootista.

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  42. That is the dumbest example ever. Binks was supposed to be liked by people. X-Pac heat is supposed to be when someone is supposed to be hated and they're hated so much that people don't even want to see him lose. Its ridiculous and made up, but your example isn't even fitting the same preface.

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  43. Rocky Maivia and New Day were also supposed to be faces

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  44. Honest question, so do you feel there's absolutely no distinction between a heel hated so much that you want to see his ass kicked vs. a heel, who may have an initial (booo he sucks, and then is "so" reviled that people go silent during his match/unengaged with the match at all? I'll give you this, there are very few people that have fit this particular description, but that's Xpac heat to me.

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  45. The point is, that's not usually what people mean when they're tlaking about "X-Pac Heat." They're usually talking about somebody whose getting a strong reaction.

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  46. X-pac heat is about people booing because they don't want to see you at all. The original intentions don't mean anything.

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  47. 99% of the time somebody starts talking about x-pac heat, its because its somebody that they personally don't like, so they determine that the booing is what they want it to be. I've seen people try to say that Miz gets x-pac heat, which is hilarious. A heel's job is to be booed. That's what they're there for. If you get booed at all, you're a better heel than a heel that gets cheered.

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  48. No. X-pac heat is referring to a heel that people dislike so much that they change the channel. Its not when a babyface gets booed. You have no idea what you're talking about.

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  49. There's no Webster's definition for X-pac heat so at this point it's just two people arguing over a term someone on the internet made up years ago. However, the general understanding of X-pac heat also includes faces. If you paid any attention to the original topic you would notice Rocky and New Day are mentioned as examples of characters that had X-pac heat. They were presented to the crowd as faces and the crowd rejected it.

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  50. Nope. You couldn't be more wrong.

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  51. I agree with a lot of what you say, and I disagree with anyone that says Miz gets X-Pac heat because that isn't true....Miz's problem is that he's very bland in the ring so that's why a lot of his matches don't have a lot of heat. I would take it in another direction, any heel that gets NO reaction is worse than a heel that gets cheered, worse than a heel that's booed. At least a heel that gets cheered has some connection with the fans, vs. the heel who has a reflexive initial boo...then silence throughout.

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  52. Just came to point and laugh at you and this comment. You're ruining your gimmick and showing too much ass by not knowing what the fuck you're talking about.

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  53. No. A heel that gets cheered is not only not doing his job, he's fucking up the babyface. At least no reaction gives the babyface a chance. When the heel gets cheered, you're totally fucked. Which is why CMPunk had one of the worst heel runs ever.

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  54. I agree only to an extent though. You're right, a heel that's getting cheered isn't doing his job ultimately. Let's talk about CM Punk, when you take a guy, who's getting cheered just about no matter what he does, is it his fault because he's entertaining? Is it because he's going against bland faces, or faces that act like complete assholes, but still expect the audience to cheer for them? I give Seth Rollins a lot of credit for still drawing heel heat with an entertaining moveset, but he's playing the sniveling heel. If you're a heel with balls (let's take Rusev for instance), he's going to start drawing cheers because he's going against faces who generally suck at drawing good reactions (like Jack Swagger), or 50/50 faces (Cena). And to me, that's better than being a random heel with little to no reaction.

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  55. If you are getting cheered no matter what you do, you should not be a heel. If Punk wanted to be a heel, he should have stopped doing things that he knew people liked. Take Jericho. When he came back as a heel, he changed everything. Got rid of everything people liked. That's why it worked. And you can still draw heat as an ass-kicking heel, you just have to be smarter. Having a sniveling manager helps. Heyman keeps Lesnar heel. Or you have to be despicable, like Bully Ray or Owens. But getting cheered just fucks over your babyface, and its hard enough to be a babyface in today's environment.

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  56. Maybe CM Punk should've changed up his moveset a little more...how much more could he have dialed it down? When the heel is SO good at what he does, that he/she gets cheered (no matter how much he/she tries to be a heel), to me that's more of an indictment of how weak/unlikable a lot of the faces are. If you talk about nWO era heels who tried to get cheered, then I'd agree with you 100%...but today, I think heels are trying to heel (within the PG era limits), it's just the faces are really really terrible, and shoulder some of the blame.

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  57. Case in point- Angle was having so much trouble getting heel heat against Cena in 2005/2006 (through no fault of his own), that they had him cut a promo saying he doesn't like black people, he wants to put Jesus in the ankle lock, etc. among other outrageous things- and people STILL cheered him. In fact, that was the point of his promo. Some guys just cannot and will not be booed, no matter what they do. The fans just love them too much.

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  58. I still don't get why they don't throw Dallas in with New Day, even if he's just the job guy for them. The visual of Dallas coming to the ring in New Day attire, dancing and clapping to Gospel music, while being totally oblivious to what a moron he looks like, would be gold. He'd be like Steve Martin in The Jerk.

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  59. If you are a heel and you are getting cheered, and your babyface is getting booed, you are not doing your job. That's it.

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  60. No, happy, cause you again proved yourself retarded

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  61. Eh, we'll have to agree to disagree here, in an ideal world, I think this viewpoint is more than valid, but I can't blame heels who actually try to be a heel, and end up getting cheered because they are a)more entertaining than the face b)the face acts like a dick, and cheers the heel anyway.

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  62. u so mad bro

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  63. Edge started it before the hair vs hair stuff.

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  64. Definitely. I remember one Raw where she was being booed so loudly that Cena was close to corpsing in the ring and she literally couldn't get anything out.

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  65. That's right, they were Texas A&M or something and they were fucking NUCLEAR for her, it was great

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