Skip to main content

What the World Was Watching: Monday Night Raw - December 28, 1998

-A video package recaps last week’s show where Shane McMahon assumed temporary control and was summarily destroyed by Mankind.  Kane also went “corporate” for the first time in his career by attacking D-Generation X to end the show.

-Michael Cole and Jerry “The King” Lawler are tonight’s commentary team and they are live from Albany, New York.  Cole is still calling the show “the best action adventure series on television.”


-Vince McMahon tells Shane McMahon that everyone that attacked him last week will pay.  He pledges to humiliate and fire Commissioner Shawn Michaels when he shows up at the arena.  The Corporation then invades the arena’s boiler room en masse looking for Mankind.  Mankind eventually launches a sneak attack, but cannot fight off a boatload of guys on his own.  Vince tells Mankind that he will get a Hardcore title shot later in the evening as a belated Christmas gift, although this will require some rebooking because Hardcore Champion The Road Dogg is booked to face Val Venis in the opener.  The booking is doing a good job making Kane a sympathetic figure as the stooges keep yelling at him.

-Opening Contest for the Hardcore Championship:  The Road Dogg (Champion) and Val Venis wrestle to a no contest at 1:50:

Based on the previous segment, it is no surprise that the Corporation walks out to ringside less than two minutes into this bout.  Test attacks Venis as referee Earl Hebner calls for the bell, not quite understanding the rules of a Hardcore title bout, and D-Generation X comes out to protect Road Dogg.

-Vince McMahon informs the Road Dogg that he will defend his title against Mankind and says that Commissioner Shawn Michaels will be fired for not helping Shane last week.  This is a nice crazy Vince promo as he goes nuts about his desire to fire Michaels, which he says he would love to do to every member of the audience.

-Al Snow is still freaking out over last week’s bloodbath at the hands of the Brood, but it is unclear whether he received another bloodbath or has not changed out of the clothes he had on last week.

-Vince talks with Kane as the stooges make fun of Kane behind his back.  Vince assigns Kane the task of going after an unspecified member of D-Generation X.

-Edge beats Al Snow (w/Head) via disqualification when Snow hits Edge with Head at 2:49:

Edge uses his original entrance theme and does not have the Brood here, which does not fit within existing storylines, especially if Snow is angry over last week’s bloodbath.  The Head is different for this bout as it is shaved and also has blood on it.  Snow squashes Edge here, hitting him with a million headbutts and destroying him with Head until the Brood and JOB Squad run out.  For all intents and purposes, Edge should be carted out of here on a stretcher, but he merely walks out as if nothing happened and smiles at the JOB Squad.  For his part, Snow escapes through the audience for some reason.

-Sable warms up backstage for her Women’s title defense tonight.

-Sable winning the Women’s title from Jacqueline at Survivor Series is the Glover Slam of the Week.

-Dennis Knight, formerly of Southern Justice, is shown talking with X-Pac backstage.

-The next match is supposed to be Sable defending the WWF Women’s title.  Before it gets started, the yet-to-be-named Tori gets into the ring and presents Sable with a white rose before being carted off by security.  Sable is booked to face Spider Lady, who attacks her from behind and whips her with a belt.  The Oddities, who now have George “the Animal” Steele with them, rush the ring and Spider Lady unmasks to reveal Luna Vachon.  What you thought the Fabulous Moolah was trying to “shoot” her way to another title?  Luna screams that it is her time and she needs to get more respect, while Cole is just outraged that Luna would do such a thing to a loving, compassionate creature like Sable.  When we return from the commercial break, the Oddities tend to Sable’s injuries backstage.

-European Championship Match:  X-Pac (Champion) wrestles The Big Bossman to a double disqualification at 5:13:

The previous night on Sunday Night Heat, Kane defeated X-Pac in a non-title match and this match is the continuation of his punishment for doing the Bronco Buster to Shane McMahon on last week’s show.  X-Pac is really over here, especially when he makes his comeback, and Test tries to run interference, but in a nice piece of continuity Val Venis makes the save.  We are still without a clean finish tonight, but the crowd still loved this.  Rating:  *¾

-We get our first training vignette for Vince in the Royal Rumble.  These were some of the funniest vignettes of the Attitude Era as Shane functioned as a merciless trainer and Vince complained the whole way about doing sit ups with weights and drinking egg yokes.  Vince’s cries of “I HATE AUSTIN!” were also great as he got into his workouts.

-Goldust & Steve Blackman defeats “Double J” Jeff Jarrett & Owen Hart (w/Debra) when Blackman schoolboys Owen at 3:17:

The announcers will just not let the “Shawn Michaels is going to be fired!” story go, talking about it on an average of once per minute.  The WWF is no longer using Debra’s full name, just calling her “Debra” because the WWE has never cared for its female stars to have first and last names.  This may also be due to the fact that Debra divorced Steve McMichael in October and the WWF finally got with the times.  Owen locks Blackman in the Sharpshooter when Dan Severn randomly walks out in a neck brace and confronts him.  After about forty seconds of that, Blackman and Goldust win via the WWF trademarked distraction rollup.  What is funny is that after the match, Severn just calmly walks up the ramp with the heels no more than ten yards behind him.  Way to sell that angle!  Rating:  *

-Triple H and Chyna are really focused as they make their way to the Gorilla position.

-The Acolytes beat up Dennis Knight in the parking lot, toss him into the trunk of their car, and drive away.

-Intercontinental Championship Match:  Triple H (w/The New Age Outlaws & Chyna) beats Ken Shamrock (Champion w/Test & The Big Bossman) by disqualification when Shamrock refuses to release the anklelock at 6:26:

Instead of booking Billy Gunn to face Shamrock, they really should have slotted Triple H into that position since you already had the built-in story of how Triple H never lost the Intercontinental title and was trying to get back what was rightfully his.  This match is noticeable for me because Triple H pulls out the old N64 move of blasting Test with a baseball slide when Test gets too close to the apron.  The company is really hurting Shamrock’s finish as all the top stars keep getting to the ropes to escape it, but his decision not to break the hold here fits within the existing story.  A good match, although Triple H could have sold the knee better during the closing sequence.  Rating:  **½

-After the bell, the Corporation and D-Generation X brawl, with the Corporation winning after Kane reluctantly gets into the ring.

-Billy Gunn temporarily winning the Intercontinental title from Ken Shamrock is the 10-10-220 Rewind segment.

-Kevin Kelly interviews Gunn, but before Gunn can say much of note, Shamrock crashes the segment.  None of this goes anywhere.

-Mark Henry and D-Lo Brown walk out and Henry apologizes to Chyna for fooling around with PMS last week.  PMS come out, with Henry hilariously hiding behind D-Lo, who calls PMS “ring rats.”  Chyna then makes an entrance and sticks up for Henry, telling PMS to “stay away from her man.”  Jacqueline makes the mistake of not heeding Chyna’s advice and gets shoved to the canvas as Henry jumps for joy.  This was great too because Terri immediately fled from Chyna, possibly remembering getting choked out and being flung around like a ragdoll in the winter of 1997.  If you follow all of the shows through 1998, this segment works really well.  I marked out for it.

-The Corporation has another meeting backstage and when we get back they are going through the locker room looking for someone.

-We get a video package that recaps 1998.  The problem with the video is that they do not put things in chronological order so we just bounce around to different segments and matches.

-The Corporation attacks the Godfather backstage, who was booked to face Billy Gunn in the next match.

-Kane (w/Shane McMahon, Pat Patterson & Gerald Brisco) defeats Billy Gunn by disqualification when X-Pac interferes at 3:54:

With the Godfather on the shelf, Kane is inserted into his place by Shane McMahon.  Ken Shamrock attacks Gunn from behind minutes into the match and applies the ankle lock.  Kane chokeslams Billy and appears headed for a win, but the stooges have him repeat the chokeslam two more times.  Before Kane can hit the move a third time, D-Generation X runs in to make the save.  Rating:  *

-WWF Champion The Rock walks out to do guest commentary for the main event.

-Commissioner Shawn Michaels is shown arriving to the arena, which is humorous because the show is nearly over.

-Hardcore Championship Match:  The Road Dogg (Champion) pins Mankind after the Rock this Mankind with a Rock Bottom at 9:08 shown:

The match starts during the commercial break so we join it in progress.  The Rock’s commentary brings this match up a notch as he puts himself over, but also puts over the talent of both competitors.  There are weapons used here, but at least they are used creatively with Mankind leg dropping a chair onto Road Dogg’s face and Road Dogg using the chair for a side Russian leg sweep.  One spot that makes no sense here is that Road Dogg breaks up a pin by getting his feet on the ropes as you would figure rope breaks should not apply in a match where the rules are suspended.  Mankind appears headed for a win after he elbow drops the Road Dogg through a table in the crowd, but the Rock leaves the booth and interferes to put the Road Dogg over.  Fans are so crazy over the Rock that four or five security guards have to push back the sea of humanity that surrounds the bout to get the Rock back to the locker room.  The Road Dogg was arguably the best Hardcore champion in WWF history, putting on lots of entertaining title defenses before the garbage came to overwhelm the actual wrestling.  In a nice touch, Road Dogg sees the way that he won the match and hates the fact that he needed interference to retain the title.  Rating:  ***¼

-Vince McMahon comes to the ring and calls out Shawn Michaels.  Vince recounts how he was the reason for Michaels success and shows footage from March where Michaels said that he did not need Vince as much as Vince needed him.  Vince then proceeds to fire Michaels and parts by saying that he does not laying down for anyone.  This, predictably, ends with Michaels delivering Sweet Chin Music and simulating a lewd act on Vince before the Corporation runs out.

The Final Report Card:  Quite the entertaining RAW to close out 1998.  The main event was one of the better hardcore matches in the company’s history and the closing segment and the Chyna-Mark Henry-PMS segment stole the show.  It is a testament to how good the roster was built during this time that Steve Austin’s absence is hardly missed.  However, if you look at the ratings, WCW has been gradually narrowing the Monday Night War gap with RAW since Austin disappeared after Rock Bottom.

With the 1998 RAW reviews in the books, where would the Blog like to head next?  Should we go into 1999 with RAW or should we go back to look at 1993-1995, Superstars from 1994-1997, Prime Time Wrestling from 1991-1992, the Action Zone from 1994-1995, Shotgun Saturday Night from 1997-1998, Sunday Night Heat of 1998, or recap the old Coliseum Video “Best of” videos of the 1980s?  Whichever option gets the most support is where I will head for next week and as always, thanks for reading and interacting with these reviews.

Monday Night War Rating:  4.9 (vs. 4.6 for Nitro)


Show Evaluation:  Thumbs Up

Comments

  1. Cena cheats on his wife and puts himself first.

    Owens does it for his family. #truerolemodel

    ReplyDelete
  2. Just throw a bunch of guys in a room. It's a subject that needs both backstage personnel and in-ring talent.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Was that 92, i totally blanked on that. I own it too.

    ReplyDelete
  4. That whole show was laid out as if it were booked on a cocktail napkin 2 hours before the PPV started.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Keep it going into 1999.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Come on, you have to keep up to the next RAW where everything changed in the Monday Night War for good.

    ReplyDelete
  7. That was very much a last minute angle for that match that came directly in response to the steriod/sex scandal pieces airing simultaneously on multiple tabloid shows a couple of weeks before the show.

    They wanted Hogan to lay low fast. Mr. Nanny often gets mentioned as a reason for his departure, but I don't think that even started filming until the end of 1992.

    ReplyDelete
  8. I always got the feeling that the steroid scandal forced Vince's hand a lot sooner than he desired in terms of going smaller and younger. That may have been where he wanted to go, but maybe in 1993 or even 1994, certainly not in the fall of 1992. Seemed so forced and not organic at all

    ReplyDelete
  9. Is there a story for why that move occurs anyway? I assume they just realized their European tours were money and made the switch.

    ReplyDelete
  10. The Ghost Of Meekin's MoobsJune 2, 2015 at 12:52 PM

    Action Zone from 94-95. Raw's been done to death so let's have something different

    ReplyDelete
  11. The thing I've wondered is when did Vince call the Warrior?

    He definitely made sure he was off the juice or at least cycling down by the time of his run in.

    It's crazy that both guys in the main event were gone within weeks of the show. It's very Brock/Goldberg. Savage/Liz were separated a few weeks later as well.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Mr. Nanny didn't come out until late 1993, so it's doubtful (but possible) it started filming in mid-1992.

    ReplyDelete
  13. I thought the title said Shano vs Hogan (as in Shane-o-Mac). Then tried to imagine that match, with Shane bumping his ass off for Hogan.

    ReplyDelete
  14. "WrestleMania 8 really was the swan song for the 1980s WWF."

    Absolutely. Just look how different the roster looked one year later at Mania IX.

    ReplyDelete
  15. As a child I thought Papa Shango was terrifying

    ReplyDelete
  16. I remember Warrior's new look started all those rumors back then that the real Warrior died and this was a replacement.

    ReplyDelete
  17. So did I. The first house show I went to had him vs Warrior and I was terrified he was going to pull some some shit and set the place on fire.

    ReplyDelete
  18. I was so scared of him that I had to stop watching wrestling for a few weeks on mom's orders.

    ReplyDelete
  19. It's funny but when I was a kid I didn't even notice Warrior or Savage were smaller. But looking back at it now, t-shirt Savage was especially smaller than he had been.

    ReplyDelete
  20. Well he was programmed with Warrior right away, so Vince must have seen Shango on that level.I don't see any other reason why Shango, of all people, would get involved in the main event if they didn't view him as a top heel.

    ReplyDelete
  21. Let's not insult Tito. Sure, his wife's cooking often have Bobby Heenan the runs, but he was above Truth's level.

    ReplyDelete
  22. Bret really wasn't in the inner circle at the time though. He'd know what Vince told him or what was going around the dressing room but even he had no idea he was winning the title until he did.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Well they had to capitalize on his cousin Areba McEntyre's popularity.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Just saying he was barely winning matches at that point unless it was over a total jobber on Superstars or something. So to make him champ would have been a stretch.

    ReplyDelete
  25. I remember a rumor that Papa Shango was going to return to the WWF to either team with the Undertaker or feud with him in 1997. This was a pretty legit possibility because I remember buying a WWF Trivia Card game in 1996/1997 that featured the current roster, and Papa Shango was inexplicably included despite not being a character on WWF TV for years. Clearly they were factoring his return into the long-term plans, but instead he was quitely brought back as Kama Mustafa in the Nation. What happened here?

    ReplyDelete
  26. Well I remember wondering why he didn't use it to just beat Bret Hart but I was just a really stupid 4th grade kid.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Can we tie this into the fact that Hogan had heat when he returned to WWF in 2002 and called Charles Wright "Papa Shango" backstage?

    It's one of the entries in the "Stupid Things Wrestlers Have Gotten Heat Over" annals.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Nxt is on Wednesdays.

    ReplyDelete
  29. Papa Shango sadly isn't one of Vince's more racist characters.

    ReplyDelete
  30. But if Hogan was leaving and they figured he'd be back for Summerslam, that would explain Shango's run-in. Shango may have been the plan for Summerslam on the day of Wrestlemania. But like you said, once the feud with Warrior bombed I doubt they follow through with Hogan/Shango.

    ReplyDelete
  31. He got heat for calling him Papa Shango?

    ReplyDelete
  32. I don't remember, but apparently some folks backstage thought Hulk was being disrespectful or some stupid wrestler bullshit.

    ReplyDelete
  33. I can see that. The man worked hard to establish himself as a pimp and Hogan's talking to him like he's still some voodoo master.

    ReplyDelete
  34. Very similar in a historical sense to how certain decades influence doesn't end until a few decades into the next one. The 1950s, for example, really ended with the Kennedy assassination, and the 1990's ended on 9/11.

    ReplyDelete
  35. I guess he didn't give Hogan a discount after that.

    ReplyDelete
  36. The '80s era of baseball ended with Joe Carter's HR to win the World Series. In '94 it really became a different game--offense exploded, TV coverage changed, fans got more cynical for a number of reasons, new classic ballparks started rapidly replacing the concrete-and-steel multipurpose ashtray stadiums, and the bright colors, stretch belt uniforms, and speed-happy style of the previous decade went away.

    ReplyDelete
  37. CruelConnectionNumber2June 2, 2015 at 1:53 PM

    Anyone today complaining "He was buried!" when someone loses on TV today. Take note of Mick Foley's week. Pinned by Road Dogg. Capture WWF World Title next week.

    ReplyDelete
  38. CruelConnectionNumber2June 2, 2015 at 1:54 PM

    I vote Prime Time Wrestling 1991. Start with the live studio shows.

    ReplyDelete
  39. Having it in a stadium was a bigger deal than having it in an arena

    ReplyDelete
  40. Truly unprecedented in the annals of WM history. Can you imagine a major show like, say, WrestleMania 7 having the wheels come off and timing get fucked up all over the place in the second half of the show?


    Also let's not forget the WWF title match going on 4th, the prime "heel wins the main event" WWF slot, only for Savage to win anyway. Setting up a summer house show program involving the dastardly heel Flair chasing the babyface champ who had already beaten him and decisively taken his woman back. Wha?

    ReplyDelete
  41. AverageJoeEverymanJune 2, 2015 at 1:56 PM

    Yeah, right . . . "rumors".

    ReplyDelete
  42. It's weird how WWE P.R. treats WM IX like it was a great show, but constantly trashes WM VIII.

    ReplyDelete
  43. Strangely enough, Wrestlemania 8 was also the debut of the set they would use for TV and PPVs right up through the launch of the dark, gritty Attitude Era set.

    ReplyDelete
  44. AverageJoeEverymanJune 2, 2015 at 1:58 PM

    too bad he wasn't around longer he could have become a gangster, evangelist, or a dancer.

    ReplyDelete
  45. Savage/Roberts, Taker/Sid and Hogan/Flair. There is your three WM VIII Main Events.

    ReplyDelete
  46. People scoff at the idea that Tito Santana was one of several finalists for the title in '92...but one of the reasons I actually believe it is because I would have only been MARGINALLY more shocked to open up my PWI Weekly to find that Santana had won the belt, and most of that would be because of the El Matador outfit and even I as a kid knew that gimmicky guys didn't generally hold titles. That's how flabbergasting it was to find out that Bret had won the title.

    ReplyDelete
  47. I was shocked when Vince had announced Bret was champion. I was sure Warrior was going to regain the title

    ReplyDelete
  48. I'm not being facetious when I say that a pivotal moment in WWF production history came at--I forget if it was the USA primetime special before SummerSlam or Survivor Series--which had the first video wall.

    ReplyDelete
  49. I thought it sat in post-production purgatory for awhile, but I could be misremembering.

    ReplyDelete
  50. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogJune 2, 2015 at 2:04 PM

    If Hogan sticks around, I think they may as well run Hogan vs. Flair as part of a triple main event (Savage-Warrior, Hart-Bulldog, Hogan-Flair). Running Hulk vs. Flair in Wembley would have been bad ass. Give Shango to Undertaker, if he must have a high profile match

    ReplyDelete
  51. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogJune 2, 2015 at 2:04 PM

    The black goo freaked me the fuck out

    ReplyDelete
  52. That's true. Also in 94, he was also rumored to be the reason why Bob Backlund snapped. Voo doo. For real

    ReplyDelete
  53. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogJune 2, 2015 at 2:07 PM

    Shango is pretty much the definitive "Undertaker cannon fodder" heel....but that match never went down on PPV

    ReplyDelete
  54. It was after Mania 7 that Savage really shrunk, as he was taking retirement and having kids seriously (it's best to be off the stuff for babymaking, hence the fat HHH throughout 04-06 years)

    ReplyDelete
  55. Hated that thing

    ReplyDelete
  56. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogJune 2, 2015 at 2:08 PM

    Papa Shango, Kamala, & The Headshrinkers made way to much sense as a stable to actually happen.

    ReplyDelete
  57. True. But it took them another year in 93 to install programming into the bulbs for flashing. Mania 8 it only stayed lit.

    ReplyDelete
  58. They lost Pat Patterson in February due to the scandals. He really was the right hand man at the tv shoots

    ReplyDelete
  59. I think Bruce was back in Texas for some of 92...he returned late

    ReplyDelete
  60. Isn't that the company that had the guy that jobs to Barrett all the time as their champ? And he beat the smiling jobber for the title and he beat a guy that claps for the title? I mighta heard something about those guys being on some network or something.

    ReplyDelete
  61. Usual WWE booking suggests long bouts of jobbing leads to a championship shortly after.

    ReplyDelete
  62. Actually, you could be right. According to IMDb, while Mr. Nanny was released in October 1993 in the US, it was released in April 1993 in the UK. This article about the Hogans building a home from November 1992 mentions the movie was already filmed:
    http://articles.latimes.com/1992-11-15/realestate/re-779_1_hollywood-hills-home

    So Hogan *did* shoot Mr. Nanny before his return in March 1993.

    ReplyDelete
  63. I suspect they were going to run Undertaker-Sid at SummerSlam. Kamala was signed expressly and specifically to be Sid's replacement after he flaked.

    ReplyDelete
  64. Between that and The Serpent And The Rainbow, yeah.

    ReplyDelete
  65. totally agree, I always considered WM8 the end of an era.

    ReplyDelete
  66. ah yes, the Atari Titantron.

    ReplyDelete
  67. Am I the only one who thought that Shango was great when he came to the ring with the cylinder hat and his cape and stuff but then when he removed everything he was just a bald guy with a painted face and kind of lame in the ring.

    ReplyDelete
  68. Yeah, the first half of WM8 is on the level of all-time great, but things just go off the railings after the title match. If the Warrior did not run down in probably one of the biggest surprise endings, it would have been a total waste.

    ReplyDelete
  69. yeah it was a massive surprise to most I am sure. I was conditioned to a certain kind of wrestler being champion and Bret just won it with no advance. It was a huge surprise.

    ReplyDelete
  70. I remember that Undertaker and Bearer had an article interview in WWF Magazine that focused on Shango, sure they were thinking about it, but it I suppose the Warrior feud flamed Shango out.

    ReplyDelete
  71. Omg I'm so outraged you said that just now.

    ReplyDelete
  72. Mrs. Steen is hotter than Nikki Bella.

    ReplyDelete
  73. Piper and Jake left too and they were featured in prominent matches at WM8. The WWF roster took a beating in 1992.

    ReplyDelete
  74. The OSW lads also brought up a great point that it was stupid to have Savage giving incomprehensible commentary at WM 9 when he stole the show at the previous two WMs.

    ReplyDelete
  75. If he came out 10 years earlier he would have gotten over like crazy.

    ReplyDelete
  76. Looking at it now Santana actually makes perfect sense as being on the list. Business is going down a bit so Vince is looking to get some appeal going in another country, the nearest two countries are Canada and Mexico. Both Santana and Hart are smaller guys, ring technicians as well in the event he's looking to keep the purists. And you get the shock value of "WTF? *He's* the champ?" The only issue I would've had with Santana was all the jobbing he had been doing.

    ReplyDelete
  77. Yep, I remember the announcers hyping a Shango/Taker feud on air, which I thought was weird since they never really interacted at that point.

    ReplyDelete
  78. Thus far, we have 3 votes for 1999, 2 for PTW, and 1 for Action Zone. I'll keep checking back to this column until around Friday and make the decision for that. Eventually, I'll get to everything, but it'll take many, many years!

    ReplyDelete
  79. yeah it was ridiculous, they had a Wrestlemania MAIN EVENT guy doing commentary. Who wrestled in 3 of the greatest Wrestlemania matches of all time.

    Considering how weak the card was...come on

    ReplyDelete
  80. eh, I think Hogan-Flair in WWF kind of died a death after it was pulled at WM8. Not sure how they could still have Hogan-Flair with no title involved and Flair already losing to Savage.

    ReplyDelete
  81. Vince's decision to bench Savage for his age after the 1993 Rumble made no sense considering he still used Hogan, Lawler, Backlund, and Piper off-and-on for the next 2 years despite being around Savage's age.

    What's even odder is that Savage still did a somewhat regular house show schedule, he just didn't wrestle on TV

    ReplyDelete
  82. It made no sense to me that he wasn't doing some kind of a "passing the torch" match. Savage vs Bret could have been AWESOME. If Hogan wanted a big win, let Yoko be the Fat Hogan Monster of the Month.

    ReplyDelete
  83. It should have been Hart retaining against Macho in the main event.

    ReplyDelete
  84. Rumor has it that Savage pitched a 2-year passing of the torch arc involving Shawn Michaels that Vince rejected

    ReplyDelete
  85. It seems like we don't get as many random plugs as we used to.

    ReplyDelete
  86. We are infinitely better as a people for Bob getting over as a crazy old man

    ReplyDelete
  87. Boogeyman was too over the top. Papa Shango still looks legit freaky watching him as an adult.

    ReplyDelete
  88. Harlan Leverage IIIJune 2, 2015 at 3:54 PM

    I vote PTW 1991, but I won't be heartbroken if you do '99 RAW instead.

    ReplyDelete
  89. Option 3: Owens wins and we get the old "Cena battles his own demons" storyline rehashed again.

    ReplyDelete
  90. Are you crazy!? Action Zone every time!

    ReplyDelete
  91. I think the most likely scenario is Cena wins clean, and they do a rubber match the next month.

    ReplyDelete
  92. If Owens wins clean again it will a) shut everyone up b) create a compelling storyline for Cena where there's one guy who he simply cannot beat no matter what. I think there was something to Cena emphasising on RAW that no matter whether he wins or loses he's still the #1 guy and I think he can retain that even if Owens beats him 3 times in a row (won't happen but would be great)

    ReplyDelete
  93. I love that idea. I loved it especially when they were doing it with Shelton and HHH, where even though HHH was dominating everyone Shelton totally had his number any time they wrestled.

    ReplyDelete
  94. Was Kamala ever any good? He was useless in 92. I know he's a nice man who Vince has fucked over, but he was garbage in the ring.

    ReplyDelete
  95. C) Make everyone on this blog very happy therefore making it the "smart" choice.

    ReplyDelete
  96. pimpin' is certainly not easy

    ReplyDelete
  97. So how long before Owens is the in pie eating contests and jobbing on Superstars?

    ReplyDelete
  98. I would go for Cena reversing a pop up powerbomb into a rana pin. Would be an ace visual, wouldn't kill Owens' cred like losing via 'the Cena usual' and then you could have KO lay him out afterwards to keep him as very much the bad guy.

    ReplyDelete
  99. Screw that. Owens wins (again) and clean, "hurts" Cena with the apron powerbomb and gets him off the air for a couple of months to film a movie or whatever.


    You then do a slow turn where Owens is lauded by HHH/Stephanie until he sets his sights on Rollins and the world title, thereby organically turning face when they try to talk him out of the title shot (this works EVERY time) and Owens tells them to go to hell. Boom - face turn.

    ReplyDelete
  100. GET IT??? Because he's FAT, right???

    ReplyDelete
  101. The guy has had one match in the company and you're booking his eventual face turn? Why not calm it down a notch. You'll have him in the main event of Wrestlemania 32 against the biggest draw in history Brock Lesnar.

    ReplyDelete
  102. The problem with Option 2 is that Cena's STF doesn't look remotely painful.

    ReplyDelete
  103. Run up behind Cena and punk him out of the match. Put him on the shelf. Owens squashes jobbers until the build to SummerSlam where Cena comes back.

    ReplyDelete
  104. Well he is fat but I was more talking about how he lacks any sort of talent. So he's fat, untalented, overrated, I could go on. The cool thing about this push though is that when it goes away everyone on here will lose their mind, delcare Vince senile, predict the death of the WWE, and proclaim themselves never watching not only the WWE ever again but the Network. It'll be cute.

    ReplyDelete
  105. Face Steen was kinda boring. He had his moments, but he needs a really dastardly heel to work against. I think heel Owens is the way to go for a while.

    ReplyDelete
  106. We've seen the "Cena loses match 1, wins match 2 through infinity" booking before and it didn't work.


    Why not try "Cena loses match 1 through infinity" instead.

    ReplyDelete
  107. So that would include you right?

    ReplyDelete
  108. Trolls are everywhere.

    I wish I were so non-talented I could go from sitting on the turnbuckle to hitting a springboard moo daily in 0.2 seconds.

    ReplyDelete
  109. No question Bret was the best option of the bunch. BUT, there were no "good" options. Every single potential candidate had major drawbacks, including Bret.

    ReplyDelete
  110. Hard to tell with that gimmick. Guy was from a completely different era in terms of character (if not age).

    ReplyDelete
  111. 1 match? Check your math, mate.


    1 against CJ Parker.


    2 against Sami Zayn.


    2 against Adrian Neville.


    2 against Alex Riley.


    1 against Solomon Crowe.


    1 against Finn Balor.


    1 against John Cena.


    And...how ever many house show matches he's done.


    But that's 10 matches on TV.

    ReplyDelete
  112. Owens suckers Cena into accepting no DW and then muderizes him.

    ReplyDelete
  113. I think the finish is going to be Owens apron power bombing him and Cena doing a stretcher job.

    ReplyDelete
  114. He played his gimmick well when he was allowed to look like a killer (as he was in Mid-South and to a lesser degree World Class) and not like a retard. The Hogan matches in '87 are good for what they are, and he had a bodyslam match in the AWA against Crusher Blackwell that I really liked. If you go into a Kamala match expecting moonsaults and high WERKRATE, forget it, but he was an otherwise compelling character who could draw big money.


    Also, the other night I watched him wrestle two trios matches for CMLL from '91, and it's astounding how well he fit in in an environment where I've seen many an American/Canadian look completely lost. He also switched things up by working almost like a cocky dick, doing fake handshakes, an Ali shuffle, mockingly holding the ropes open for his opponent, etc. It was a lot of fun.

    ReplyDelete
  115. No no. Austin/Brock is set in stone for WM32. Just like Austin/Punk was the past few years.

    ReplyDelete
  116. Triple S is the guy who thinks that JBL is an A+ talent and NXT if filled with boring, RoH types.


    He also thinks that Lucha Underground is flavorless and bland. And prefers 1999 Raw crash TV to the NXT specials.

    ReplyDelete
  117. This morning I watched the Owens/Cena deal from Raw. Know what I was thinking? I'd really like to see Cena feud with a faith healer. I bet if someone had people lined up and was curing them of sickness and disease Cena would absolutely lose it.

    ReplyDelete
  118. Allow me to be more specific. By TV I meant network television as in a television network such as USA which airs Monday Night RAW. And by Company I mean the WWE not the minor league NXT thats broadcast mostly on the WWE Network with a few Hulu viewers. I apologize for not being more specific. He's had one match on TV in the WWE. I hope this helps.

    ReplyDelete
  119. I always loved the end of an era symbolism of the 3 guys carrying the company for the next 5 years, Shawn, Taker, and Bret going over 1980's stalwarts Tito, Jake, and Piper.

    ReplyDelete
  120. Face Steen is the guy that's overshadowed by El Generico. He's a good "best buddy" or part of a collection of top guys, but shouldn't be the number one guy.

    ReplyDelete
  121. I just realized that Owens/Cena is another variation on the "everyman vs corporate champ" feud that everyone loved about Punk/Cena. It obviously resonates a lot.

    ReplyDelete
  122. Big E's the closest they've got. He has the faith healer promo nailed.

    ReplyDelete
  123. I think Shelton beat HHH twice. And if I remember correctly (I could be wrong, it's been a while) Trips beat him quite easily the next time they wrestled.

    ReplyDelete
  124. The apron powerbomb does appear to be the one trump card Owens hasn't played yet.

    ReplyDelete
  125. Yes thats right and even though the WWE is incompetent and embarrassing and poorly ran. And even though there is NO WAY they could sell out 100,000 seats (after all they only sold 50,000 seats at Wrestlemania...Dave said so). All that being said Austin/Brock would sell out Wrestlemania...because Brock is a giant fucking draw.

    ReplyDelete
  126. Nah I don't think so - it's really early to turn Steen. He's had all of two matches and we're already fantasy booking his face turn because "we" like him so much.

    ReplyDelete
  127. Isn't evangelizing part of the New Day gimmick, too? It would be a great addition to start doing in-ring faith healing.

    ReplyDelete
  128. I love how when I say some shit that isn't popular I'm a troll. Its like you guys stick your hands in your ears and scream "la la la la I can't hear you" "Brock is a draw" "Steve Austin is great" "Vince is bad" "Triple H is too EVIL Dave told me so". Hahaha it warms my heart.

    ReplyDelete
  129. I would say that based on last night's interaction and promotion by WWE, Austin/Brock is far more likely than Austin/Punk ever was (and that's even with a limited chance of it happening).

    ReplyDelete
  130. RoH was on cable TV as well while Steen was in the company.


    And NXT gets broadcast on TV overseas.

    ReplyDelete
  131. If Austin comes back for one more match it has to be against John Cena. Hell the storyline is right there. John Cena is the corporate asshole the do gooder, the WWE man that Austin never wanted to be. Cena vs. Austin would sell 200,000 tickets.

    ReplyDelete
  132. Might as well continue with 1999

    ReplyDelete
  133. It different. Because instead of being about who's the "best wrestler" this feud is based around who the "best person" is.

    ReplyDelete
  134. Yuuup. Papa Shango scared the balls off me as a kid, I admit it.

    ReplyDelete
  135. That's what I'd do. There's nothing wrong with the classics. Heel wins first one in a hard fought match. Heel has to cheat/Get DQ'd to win second match. Face trains hard and wins final match.


    The heel is strong because he won twice. and smart because his second win was by nefarious means. The face is strong because he wins the final one. Everyone wins!

    ReplyDelete
  136. Please. You know what he meant. When has ROH airings factored into how a guy is pushed in the WWE? I disagree with some of what Triple S says as much as some of you, but he is spot on when saying it is a little early to start planning out the length of his career. Lots of guys have great starts and don't pan out for whatever reason.

    ReplyDelete
  137. Not straight face. The crowd already wants to turn him - let them, but do it slow. Bret v. Austin, but without the double turn.

    ReplyDelete
  138. Why is it an unsmart choice if that's what you're saying?

    ReplyDelete
  139. Anyone facing Cena will get some cheers. Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves with the Austin comparisons.

    ReplyDelete
  140. Austin in that it'd be an organic turn, not Austin in that Owens is the "new" Austin (we can see how successful that gambit has been with Ambrose and his magic ambulance).

    ReplyDelete
  141. How is Owens untalented? What do you want from your wrestlers that he doesn't give you?

    ReplyDelete
  142. Well, he did join Right to Censor, so he was sort of an evangelist for awhile.

    ReplyDelete
  143. I imagine because they were entering the Attitude Era and the gimmick was too silly. That's my theory, anyway.

    ReplyDelete
  144. Triple S called Lucha the best promotion in NA IIRC.

    That said, he's still either a moron or a troll.

    ReplyDelete
  145. Yeah, I'd say steen's ceiling as a face is like Jericho level.

    ReplyDelete
  146. No 1999. I say Superstars since that's unchartered waters around here.

    ReplyDelete
  147. Once again you're suffering from the same thing a lot of people on here suffer from. You like somebody and YOU want the fans to react a certain way so you start projecting your thoughts on "the fans already want to turn him". He's been on RAW what three weeks? Thats just a silly statement. If in six months the crowds are going apeshit for the guy then yeah lets see how people react after the Cena program is over.

    ReplyDelete
  148. Did he? Well stopped clock and all that.


    I could have sworn he said something about it sucking.


    And I'm leaning towards moron.

    ReplyDelete
  149. Yep, that's the one.

    ReplyDelete
  150. There would be nothing wrong with Owens being the guy that finally had John Cena's number.

    ReplyDelete
  151. It's ridiculous to plan out anybodies careers because we're all just fans shooting the shit.


    And bringing up the success of another promotion that Kevin Steen was the top guy for is not at all irrelevant to this discussion. He was draw enough for a company that makes money.


    And Kevin could go horribly wrong. Guy has had quite a bit of wear and tear, so yes, he could get injured. But why the fuck would we sit around and book random injuries onto the people we like?

    ReplyDelete
  152. Didn't Kozlov come in feuding wtih Triple H or somebody maybe not right away but damn near right away? Even Brodus Clay started out with a big time push. I'm not saying these guys had a bigger push than Owens because nobody ever has but its not unheard of for a guy to fuck up, or flake out or just not fit into the WWE long term plans and fade away.

    ReplyDelete
  153. People say you're a troll because you say ridiculous shit that you don't support with facts.

    ReplyDelete
  154. You realize just because somebody is a main eventer for a promotion doesn't make them a draw right? Did Steen make them more money than others? I would think Steen doesn't crack the top of the ROH draws. Saying somebody main evented some shows and had a program on top doesn't mean they were a draw. Do you have any numbers that he was a draw or is it more "hey I like this guy, he was on top of ROH which makes money so he's a draw".

    ReplyDelete
  155. Read somewhere, think lance storms blog, that he adresses wrestlers by how they introduce themselves. If thats the etiquette, makes sense if that's how Hogan knew him. I must be getting sick if I'm semi defending Hogan

    ReplyDelete
  156. No I love Lucha Underground its the best promotion in the world and not only that its the best promotion since Smackdown in 2003. That being said RAW's crash tv is a thousand times better than NXT its not even in the same league.

    ReplyDelete
  157. Check the music thread I mention how Lucha is the only wrestling show in Weds nights. I then go on to mock NXT. It was a good time.

    ReplyDelete
  158. Angelico in Lucha is what I want from wrestlers. Alberto Patron is pretty bad ass as well. Christian circa 2005 was pretty damn good as well.

    ReplyDelete
  159. Tito as champion would have never worked without Jesse Ventura.

    ReplyDelete
  160. I'm really enjoying this Owens love. It's a lot of fun seeing an indie favorite connect on the big stage.

    ReplyDelete
  161. Facts like Brock Lesnar is a big time draw? Facts like him and Austin are going to sell out the arena? Facts like Vince is senile and behind the times? Facts like HHH is evil and is only successful because he married Steph? Facts like the Bellas are sluts? Facts like the WWE creative team are embarrassing and don't know how to write TV? Are those facts supported?

    ReplyDelete
  162. I caught the Cena/Owens promo this morning. Cena, to me, came off like a complete jackass.

    ReplyDelete
  163. I was just saying that if the WWE does something people on here don't agree with its considered a horrible choice and wildly panned but if they say push someone they like all of the sudden its a genius...smart...incredible choice that will go on to make them a lot of money. People pretend like Steen vs. Cena wouldn't draw nearly the same number as Cena vs. Kane would on top of a ppv.

    ReplyDelete
  164. What made it worse is WCW knew exactly what to do with him.

    ReplyDelete
  165. Option 3: Owens beats Cena and Cena fucks off and returns as a heel months later like 97 Bret.

    ReplyDelete
  166. Your opinion isn't the slightest bit biased either!

    ReplyDelete
  167. Logically Owens is already the Face and Cena is the heel in feud. Owens challenged him to a fight. John Cena acted like an arrogant prick by saying "Let me give you some veteran advice." Owens then proved that Cena was full of shit by pointing out that Cena was full of shit because Owens was held back. He further proved this point by beating Cena completely clean. I fail to see how this makes Owens a heel, but that's just me.

    ReplyDelete
  168. Cool story

    ReplyDelete
  169. People say this about literally every feud with Cena.

    ReplyDelete
  170. Exactly. This whole thing reeks of Austin/Bret.

    ReplyDelete
  171. God you're worthless as a poster. You're devolving to dougie level. Give it a few weeks youll just be responding "lol"

    ReplyDelete
  172. The only difference here is Owens did exactly what he said and DIDN'T cheat.

    ReplyDelete
  173. Oprah NoodlemantraJune 2, 2015 at 5:27 PM

    Rusev's foot can be their first "miracle"

    ReplyDelete
  174. Also leaning towards moron

    ReplyDelete
  175. The draw shit is not my business and I don't argue it or pay attention to it. There's smart people who try to determine that stuff. You want to trade information about buyrates? Go ahead, as is I'll trust the people who say he's a draw unless I see prove otherwise.


    People insulting Triple H and the Bellas usually get called out.



    Shit like WWE creative being embarrassing bad and Vince being senile come from watching the fucking show. Which is something I doubt you do if you think Kevin Owens sucks.

    ReplyDelete
  176. Cena was such a prick on Monday night, that he SHOULD be the heel in this feud

    ReplyDelete
  177. It was the Unstoppable thread where you talk about how NXT is generic (despite the existence of pretty dynamic wrestling "characters") and you complained that their version of a PPV had tons of wrestling on it.

    ReplyDelete
  178. USE.

    COMMAS.


    FUCKING CHRIST!

    ReplyDelete
  179. Rusev jumping around in joy after being healed would be an awesome sight.

    ReplyDelete
  180. Its nice to know that as inside as some people try to be they still get worked over marks are gonna be marks right?

    ReplyDelete
  181. Steen was champion for a year when the head of creative hated/strongly disliked him. If he wasn't drawing enough money to keep them stable I don't see why he'd be champion.


    And if we're shooting around "do you have any numbers" I'd like to see your numbers proving he's not a draw.


    Otherwise I'm going to stick with accepted wrestling tradition (which holds especially true for RoH) and say that if they're making money then the guy on top (which in RoH was the champion) gets the credit.

    ReplyDelete
  182. Also the "let me give you some veteran advice" is a big time dickish thing to say to someone who actually has more experience than you. Other than the fact that Michael Cole talks about how terrible Owens is, if someone hasn't already watched NXT, I dont think WWE has given people a single reason to boo Owens.

    ReplyDelete
  183. Its basically 97 Bret going off on his rants about how everyone is a lying degenerate but he's a hero while being a whiny complainer and using foul language.

    ReplyDelete
  184. And that was an awesome slow burn heel turn for Bret. I liked going back to the late 96 Raws and watching how he slowly added heel elements to his character. This would be an awesome slow burn heel turn for Cena, but no one actually believes he's turning heel. So he's just acting like a dick for no reason, and that's kind of stupid.

    ReplyDelete
  185. DQ win for Cena. That way Cena wants the third match. Owens has already beat Cena--he wouldn't demand a third match to beat him again just to prove he can when he's already won clean the first time. Cena has to be the one who demands another match, and you only get that if Cena wins the second on a technicality.

    That's not to say they won't just have Cena win the next two and the story be Cena proving Owens is a blowhard. But I am slightly optimistic given they haven't (yet) announced the rematch as a stipulation match of some kind.

    ReplyDelete
  186. If this righteous Cena promo and this veteran advice stuff is a slow burn for a heel turn then this is actually brilliant stuff. His promo last night pissed a lot of people off.

    ReplyDelete
  187. 1999 just to keep the train rolling, but as a secondary pick... PTW 91-92.

    ReplyDelete
  188. Possible Russo-riffic idea: Next week, Cena brings out a Make-a-Wish kid, blah blah blah, invites him to be in his corner at MitB. Only in a massive swerve the kid is actually KO's son, grabs Cena's foot leading to a power bomb and a pin, father and son celebrate, and then the next night on Raw KO explains how they set up this whole fake thing because they knew Cena was a sucker for cancer kids, etc.

    ReplyDelete
  189. I would have Owens win clean again. Make a fucking star.

    WWE should be less concerned with the rubber match and more interested in creating YEARS of fresh main events

    ReplyDelete
  190. You never know. Owens is quite popular quite fast like Austin and after they Diesel'd Reigns history could be repeating itself here. Maybe they're just being really subtle about it.

    If so, no way the monkey writers are scripting this shit. A major shift in Cenas character like that no doubt has his input.

    ReplyDelete

Post a Comment