I missed all of this as a kid, since I didn't start watching USWA until 1995, but it really took me a while to get my head around everything. It was so weird seeing Jerry Lawler, a heel in the WWF, be like Hulk Hogan in the USWA and see him beat guys like Razor Ramon, who he had no chance of beating in the WWF. It was like the Twilight Zone for a nine year old.
Like a lot of fans, I've only seen this in recent years but it always shocks me. This isn't a prototype for the Mr. McMahon character -- it IS that character and probably a better version on it, not turned up to quite such a ridiculous level. Kinda weird to think that he had that kicking around in his brain for years before it'd be unleashed in the WWF.
I loved the beginning of this storyline, where the drunk referee spoiled the big announcement they were going to make, when he slurred that Vince was going to be in his corner for his ambulance match against Lawler, BEFORE they made the big announcement and in the process almost killing the storyline right out of the gate.
Also loved Lawler giving Neighbors a fireball and several piledrivers during the match itself; he was clearly legitimately pissed at Paul Neighbors for screwing up the angle.
Besides showing that McMahon is a fantastic heel, these Memphis Wrestling shows also showed that Jerry Lawler is an absolutely phenomenonal painter. If he had never got into wrestling, he could have a ton of money either painting or drawing comics.
I used to get ESPN and a Canadian channel on our cable system. They both had a wrestling show on at the same time (World Class on ESPN, International Wrestling on the Canadian channel), and I did not have the technology to record both, so I would always be flipping back and forth.
One day, I was watching World Class, and I saw a heel Abdullah the Butcher fighting a face Bruiser Brody. Then, when I flipped over to International Wrestling, I saw a face Abdullah the Butcher fighting a heel Bruiser Brody. Darned near blew my little kid mind, and the only time I ever saw anything like that again was when Rick Rude appeared as a heel on RAW and a face on Nitro on the same night.
By the way, both matches ended in double DQs. Some things never change...
i watched a couple of the mcmemphis vids and it was great stuff.
just makes you wonder how smaller promotions can experiment with booking and sometines spin gold. a heel vince in 1993?!? perish the thought.
ive always heard about steamboat working heel in roh in 03-04 timeframe and just nodding my head like yeah that could work.
or babyface rick rude in memphis when he started out.
just things you wouldnt expect to hear from. smaller promotions can try out. like if hardy would have had his shit together when the immortal thing started out it would have been cool cuz they did a pre taped promo of him and it was good. GOOD...
heel jeff hardy could have worked in tna. with hogan/bischoff scripting him and working around the better workers it had some legs. just sad he went off the deep end again.
Mr. McMahon is the best heel character in the history of pro wrestling. If you look at the period from Dec. 1997 to the blowoff in Feb. 1999, the Austin/McMahon feud is the absolute best wrestling feud in the modern era, with only the Savage/Hogan arc from 1988-89 in the discussion.
When I watch these old Memphis tapes, I'm STUNNED they didn't run evil Vince in the WWF much earlier. In 1996, when Shawn was floundering as champ...imagine if they had given him Evil Vince to feud with?
Wow, that's a mind-blowing hypothetical. Evil Vince versus a brash, young Shawn Michaels. Would it have taken the juice out of the nWo angle in WCW? Would it have catapulted Shawn to an Austin-like level? Would Shawn have flamed out? Would the Monday Night Wars have been even bigger?
The entire McMemphis storyline is absolutely epic. I watched it a few years ago, or as much of it that is on YouTube, and was surprised by how many people got pulled into it. Guys like Tatanka and Papa Shango, I could understand, but seeing a heel Bret Hart working side-by-side with Owen was really strange since we wouldn't get that for another 4 years in the WWF.
I miss the days when Vince would work closely with small promotions like USWA and Smoky Mountain. It gave people a chance to build characters that weren't completely dictated by the whims of creative, it opened up lots of avenues for different talent, and it kept some people in business where independent workers could go and get noticed without having to have already been signed to a WWE deal.
I watched this a few years back and I really loved it, one of my favorites was in this interview http://youtu.be/gXeWAhihvU4 Sure it's kind of cheesy (no midget joke from me here), but it's pretty damn cool to see Lawler and McMahon switch heel/face roles half way through the video before switching back at the end. It's quite subtle but it's there.
I mean I'm sure once the guys saw how much extra coin Tatanka and Giant Gonzalez were pulling for these one-off deals they were like "step aside midcarder".
Interesting to think about. A hero is only as good as his protagonist. However one thing I think would have hurt the Heel Vince vs. Brash Shawn is that Shawn's gimmick didn't really connect with a universal audience like Austin. More guys could relate to someone who threw back some beers and used foul language, over a guy who came to the ring dancing, wearing earrings, and called himself the sexy boy. I think it could have been successful but I don't think Shawn's gimmick was as equipped to be a top draw gimmick like Stone Cold's.
A Degenerate but still face Shawn vs. Evil Vince would be interesting too.
Exactly. ECW could do more risky angles and get away with it because they weren't as much in the national spotlight, plus they didn't have to worry about pleasing a bunch of sponsors.
ROH was the same. They had a segment of the audience that they knew they could book for without worrying about all the stuff TNA or WWE has to.
That's why I like Big Johnny, he's not over-the-top evil, he's just a middle managing glad handing douche. But the promo Vince cut where he was absolutely certain he was right almost immediately following Survivor Series 97 is a great heel moment.
I also loved doofus Johnny that always seemed to get knocked out.
For instance, during the Punk/Cena contract signing, he tries to separate the two of them and gets kicked in the head by Punk. Or during the main event of Hell in a Cell when Miz and Truth are getting dragged out in handcuffs, when Johnny tries to pull Triple H off one of them Triple H goes and decks him for no reason.
I wonder if face Vince vs. somebody in 1996 would've set up the Austin/Vince feud even better. Make him out to be a reasonable and rational boss, then have him turn totally apeshit on Austin. Even have him support Austin in his earlier moments against certain people.
That would've been cool to see as well. I think the best Austin moments happened when he took things too far or was on the verge of it, so seeing Vince at the tipping point (from cautious support to angry, righteous indignation) would've made for some great television in addition to the moments where he went apeshite.
Yeah, have Vince start the heel turn with the Bret shit, then go completely over the top in his desire to control Steve. I think it would've made Vince more than the cartoon character he became.
Now THAT'S a heel!
ReplyDeleteI'll take that over any Evil Authority Figure work over the last 10-12 years, including McMahon's, any day. Just awesome.
I missed all of this as a kid, since I didn't start watching USWA until 1995, but it really took me a while to get my head around everything. It was so weird seeing Jerry Lawler, a heel in the WWF, be like Hulk Hogan in the USWA and see him beat guys like Razor Ramon, who he had no chance of beating in the WWF. It was like the Twilight Zone for a nine year old.
ReplyDeleteLike a lot of fans, I've only seen this in recent years but it always shocks me. This isn't a prototype for the Mr. McMahon character -- it IS that character and probably a better version on it, not turned up to quite such a ridiculous level. Kinda weird to think that he had that kicking around in his brain for years before it'd be unleashed in the WWF.
ReplyDeleteSo that's where Gertner got the "well..well..well..." from.
ReplyDeleteI loved the beginning of this storyline, where the drunk referee spoiled the big announcement they were going to make, when he slurred that Vince was going to be in his corner for his ambulance match against Lawler, BEFORE they made the big announcement and in the process almost killing the storyline right out of the gate.
ReplyDeleteAlso loved Lawler giving Neighbors a fireball and several piledrivers during the match itself; he was clearly legitimately pissed at Paul Neighbors for screwing up the angle.
Besides showing that McMahon is a fantastic heel, these Memphis Wrestling shows also showed that Jerry Lawler is an absolutely phenomenonal painter. If he had never got into wrestling, he could have a ton of money either painting or drawing comics.
What a delightful ham. I wish he'd acted more like this (without the over-the-top laugh at the end) during his feud with Bret Hart a couple years ago.
ReplyDeleteI can't believe how long he held all this in check. He clearly always wanted to perform.
I swear, I expected him to end it by saying, "Lawler, I guaran-damn-tee that you will not walk out with this belt."
I used to get ESPN and a Canadian channel on our cable system. They both had a wrestling show on at the same time (World Class on ESPN, International Wrestling on the Canadian channel), and I did not have the technology to record both, so I would always be flipping back and forth.
ReplyDeleteOne day, I was watching World Class, and I saw a heel Abdullah the Butcher fighting a face Bruiser Brody. Then, when I flipped over to International Wrestling, I saw a face Abdullah the Butcher fighting a heel Bruiser Brody. Darned near blew my little kid mind, and the only time I ever saw anything like that again was when Rick Rude appeared as a heel on RAW and a face on Nitro on the same night.
By the way, both matches ended in double DQs. Some things never change...
BRODY NO JOB!!!
ReplyDeletei watched a couple of the mcmemphis vids and it was great stuff.
ReplyDeletejust makes you wonder how smaller promotions can experiment with booking and sometines spin gold. a heel vince in 1993?!? perish the thought.
ive always heard about steamboat working heel in roh in 03-04 timeframe and just nodding my head like yeah that could work.
or babyface rick rude in memphis when he started out.
just things you wouldnt expect to hear from. smaller promotions can try out. like if hardy would have had his shit together when the immortal thing started out it would have been cool cuz they did a pre taped promo of him and it was good. GOOD...
heel jeff hardy could have worked in tna. with hogan/bischoff scripting him and working around the better workers it had some legs. just sad he went off the deep end again.
Mr. McMahon is the best heel character in the history of pro wrestling. If you look at the period from Dec. 1997 to the blowoff in Feb. 1999, the Austin/McMahon feud is the absolute best wrestling feud in the modern era, with only the Savage/Hogan arc from 1988-89 in the discussion.
ReplyDeleteWhen I watch these old Memphis tapes, I'm STUNNED they didn't run evil Vince in the WWF much earlier. In 1996, when Shawn was floundering as champ...imagine if they had given him Evil Vince to feud with?
This is why the lack of regional promotions hurt wrestling. They can try things there that they can't do on a national level and get away with it.
ReplyDeleteThe best video BY FAR in the series is the Macho Man's promo..."KING OF THE HICKS!!!"
ReplyDeleteI love subtle evil Vince as opposed to over the top "YOU''RRRREEEEE FIRRRRREEDDDDD" and "YOU DESERVED TO BE SCREWED!!!!" Vince.
ReplyDeleteWow, that's a mind-blowing hypothetical. Evil Vince versus a brash, young Shawn Michaels. Would it have taken the juice out of the nWo angle in WCW? Would it have catapulted Shawn to an Austin-like level? Would Shawn have flamed out? Would the Monday Night Wars have been even bigger?
ReplyDeleteAgreed with all your thoughts, by the way.
The entire McMemphis storyline is absolutely epic. I watched it a few years ago, or as much of it that is on YouTube, and was surprised by how many people got pulled into it. Guys like Tatanka and Papa Shango, I could understand, but seeing a heel Bret Hart working side-by-side with Owen was really strange since we wouldn't get that for another 4 years in the WWF.
ReplyDeleteFunniest thing is hearing Vince say belt.
ReplyDeleteI miss the days when Vince would work closely with small promotions like USWA and Smoky Mountain. It gave people a chance to build characters that weren't completely dictated by the whims of creative, it opened up lots of avenues for different talent, and it kept some people in business where independent workers could go and get noticed without having to have already been signed to a WWE deal.
ReplyDeleteI watched this a few years back and I really loved it, one of my favorites was in this interview http://youtu.be/gXeWAhihvU4 Sure it's kind of cheesy (no midget joke from me here), but it's pretty damn cool to see Lawler and McMahon switch heel/face roles half way through the video before switching back at the end. It's quite subtle but it's there.
ReplyDeleteI mean I'm sure once the guys saw how much extra coin Tatanka and Giant Gonzalez were pulling for these one-off deals they were like "step aside midcarder".
ReplyDeleteBTW, that's a really NICE looking belt. Just gaudy enough.
ReplyDeleteThat's the AWA world title belt, isn't it?
ReplyDeleteDoes he mispronounce 'svelte' at 1:25? Is that what he's trying to say there? haha.
ReplyDeleteInteresting to think about. A hero is only as good as his protagonist. However one thing I think would have hurt the Heel Vince vs. Brash Shawn is that Shawn's gimmick didn't really connect with a universal audience like Austin. More guys could relate to someone who threw back some beers and used foul language, over a guy who came to the ring dancing, wearing earrings, and called himself the sexy boy. I think it could have been successful but I don't think Shawn's gimmick was as equipped to be a top draw gimmick like Stone Cold's.
ReplyDeleteA Degenerate but still face Shawn vs. Evil Vince would be interesting too.
Exactly. ECW could do more risky angles and get away with it because they weren't as much in the national spotlight, plus they didn't have to worry about pleasing a bunch of sponsors.
ReplyDeleteROH was the same. They had a segment of the audience that they knew they could book for without worrying about all the stuff TNA or WWE has to.
That's why I like Big Johnny, he's not over-the-top evil, he's just a middle managing glad handing douche. But the promo Vince cut where he was absolutely certain he was right almost immediately following Survivor Series 97 is a great heel moment.
ReplyDeleteYou're correct. AWA belt from 1986-1991. I guess Lawler never did give the belt back.
ReplyDeleteBret and Owen were actually there in the beginning before most of the others.
ReplyDeleteI also loved doofus Johnny that always seemed to get knocked out.
ReplyDeleteFor instance, during the Punk/Cena contract signing, he tries to separate the two of them and gets kicked in the head by Punk. Or during the main event of Hell in a Cell when Miz and Truth are getting dragged out in handcuffs, when Johnny tries to pull Triple H off one of them Triple H goes and decks him for no reason.
I wonder if face Vince vs. somebody in 1996 would've set up the Austin/Vince feud even better. Make him out to be a reasonable and rational boss, then have him turn totally apeshit on Austin. Even have him support Austin in his earlier moments against certain people.
ReplyDeleteThat would've been cool to see as well. I think the best Austin moments happened when he took things too far or was on the verge of it, so seeing Vince at the tipping point (from cautious support to angry, righteous indignation) would've made for some great television in addition to the moments where he went apeshite.
ReplyDeleteYeah, have Vince start the heel turn with the Bret shit, then go completely over the top in his desire to control Steve. I think it would've made Vince more than the cartoon character he became.
ReplyDeleteLawler never gave the belt back because the AWA never paid out to the other promotions for SuperClash III.
ReplyDelete