1. How bad of a sign is it that HHH got the upper hand against Lesnar on RAW after Lesnar had been off TV for so long?
It's not a GOOD sign, but I don't think you can read anything into it.
2. If you had to guess, is HHH beating Brock at Summerslam? It's looking like Brock's fate is to be the most expensive jobber in WWE history. Not that he cares, but still.
The only time you can bet on HHH not winning is against Undertaker at Wrestlemania. And even then, you never know. Otherwise, I'm pretty sure he's winning.
Brock's not going over anyone, ever.
ReplyDeleteExcept maybe Punk or someone else that "wasn't around when Brock shit on the business and thus doesn't deserve payback" or some similar nonsense.
I thought it was actually a good sign for Brock winning. If Brock dominated the entire buildup, no chance in hell he would then dominate and win at SummerSlam.
ReplyDeleteWhatever the outcome may be at SS (still have an outside shot of going this year), I didn't read too much into Brock. Brock already upper-handed HHH the first time, so this is where even-handed booking is fine in my book and it's not like he Pedigreed him to death, he just knocked him back out of the ring.
ReplyDeleteI saw Lance Storm give his answer to essentially the same question as #1. He said he would've done the same thing except have Brock land on his feet outside the ring. That would've been awesome. I wasn't thrilled with him backing off the way he did, I think it should've been more Heyman pulling him away, but the ominous smile at the end helped. But seriously, the match is a month (more?) away. Can everyone take a deep breath and wait til after the match is over before bitching? Is it not crazy to get worked up over a result that hasn't happened yet (and might not happen at all)?
ReplyDeleteNo matter what happened last night people would've bitched. Had Brock left him laying (like the last time they were in the ring together), it would've been "great, now we know HHH is definitely going over at SSlam".
Who cares? The problem is that Brock Lesnar is feuding with Triple H.
ReplyDeleteWhat does the WWE gain from this feud? I don't see too many fans really giving a crap, especially compared to the buzz Brock/Cena generated.
The big feud should be Punk/Brock or Sheamus/Brock since Sheamus could get the rub of being a true main eventer.
I'm fine with Brock being the highest paid JTTS in history....but use it correctly. Sheamus or Punk pinning Brock means a lot more to fans & the WWE moving forward than Triple H.
I hated the visual of it, but I don't think it's a sign of what's going to happen at SS.
ReplyDeleteI would like to see Zack Ryder go over Brock Lesnar, just to see what the reaction on here would be.
ReplyDeleteHHH has a point to prove. That is all.
ReplyDeleteI guess that depends. Just a random win ala Horowitz? A lot of pissed off reactions. A good build-up where Brock destroys him but Ryder comes back and wins ala Rocky? Joy.
ReplyDelete"A good build-up where Brock destroys him but Ryder comes back and wins ala Rocky? Joy."
ReplyDeleteNot for me. Dude is beyond bad on the mic and average in the ring.
This is such a slam-dunk storyline that it's hard to see why WWE wouldn't do it. You could make any midcarder from Ryder to Kofi to Yoshi Tatsu into a main event fan favourite with this angle.
ReplyDeleteI REALLY like the idea of Sheamus/Lesnar. I just think their styles would mesh well together. Sheamus always looks like a million bucks when the other guy is willing to work stiff with him. It would do wonders for the WHC and for Sheamus. Which is why it probably won't happen.
ReplyDeleteI think the JOB squad needs to return.
ReplyDeleteI disagree. He has a good personality, can be goofy without it coming across forced like Cena and as for the mat skills...those are hardly essential.
ReplyDeleteHere's how I look at it, if HHH wins, it's clearly looks like he's going to be a high profile job guy, and hey, if they want to pay Brock an obscene amount of money to be a JTTS, it's their money that they're throwing down the tubes, I'm happy for Brock he gets his money, and apparently doesn't care how he gets it. He's a true mercenary and good for him. If somehow he actually WINS and looks strong, then maybe WWE could start the storyline they should have since the beginning. Either way, I win!
ReplyDeleteListen, I'm a 30 yr old who lived through the worst of the Triple H reign of terror, and I still have no doubt that Brock goes over at Summerslam.
ReplyDeleteListen, we all wanted Brock to go over Cena and be the Bane of WWE's Gotham City. But that was never in the cards, cause Brock is only doing a very limited handful of matches (possibly only 3?) and appearances. With that in mind, there was a case for having Cena get the win at ER. That's not what I would have wanted either, but I get it.
But if Brock loses this feud too, then he's dead in the water and means nothing for the Wrestlemania buyrate, and there's no way they're going to be so flippant about that buyrate. Yes Triple H is a egotistical megadick, but this is the kind of loss he can take so he can show he'll "take one for the business." He's gonna do the job.
In fact, it leads perfectly into Brock's Mania match. Brock murderizes HBK at the Raw in San Antonio in two weeks, beats HHH at Summerslam, and leaves only one "Wrestlemania legend" who can stop him: Undertaker at Wrestlemania. And perhaps HBK and HHH then superkick and pedigree Brock on the way out.
Again, the Brock deal didn't turn out to be what we hoped it'd be, but I think the above scenario is the one they'll go with.
Question for Scott: if you truly believe HHH is going over at Summerslam, what do you actually think they'd plan to do with Brock after that? Because he really would have no Wrestlemania value at that point.
I just don't think HHH, Vince, or any of the yes men in the WWE have the vision to see what Brock is other than a guy who was popular in their promotion and took a shit on them. I don't think Brock's popularity outside of the WWE run means anything to them. And I think the WWE believes they can build any match they want at Wrestlemania because they're the WWE.
ReplyDeleteI have no doubt Brock does the job to HHH because of all the above plus it's HHH. He doesn't job to anyone and he just got done doing back to back jobs to the Undertaker. No way he lays down again in this year.
The only way Brock is going over Triple H is if they're already planning a re-match. There's no chance that Brock's going to get the better of Triple H in the end, and I wouldn't doubt he doesn't get the better of him at all. Vince's Son in Law isn't going to lose to the guy who shit on "the business". Also, Brock's biggest appeal these days is that he made it in UFC. Ever catch the snide remarks Vince or HHH make when asked about UFC? They're not going to put a guy who walked out on them and went on to succeed for their competition over Triple H, of all people. UFC alone seems to be a sensitive subject for them, they're too insecure to even acknowledge they're competition.
ReplyDeleteBrock-Undertaker at WM would have no suspense at all, though.
ReplyDeleteThis, haven't you guys seen a feud before?
ReplyDeleteAgreed. No interest in that from me. Would prefer Brock-Rock, Brock-Cena or even Brock-Jericho.
ReplyDeleteDid you see the Smackdown he "ran" a few weeks ago? Awful timing on the mic, aimless meandering, the wrong inflection for most of the things he was saying. He simply has no presence.
ReplyDeleteAgreed. Hopefully they'd let Sheamus drop the goofy Irishman gimmick and go back to being an angry ass kicker.
ReplyDeleteThis pretty much sums up my opinion on this matter.
ReplyDeleteIf Brock wins he can face The Undertaker (most likely choice), The Rock, CM Punk, or John Cena at Wrestlemania.
If Brock loses he can face Sheamus, Del RIo, Randy Orton, Daniel Bryan, Kane or Big Show at Wrestlemania.
The first group is obviously where the money lies.
There's no point in HHH winning, and nowhere to go with the Brock storyline if he does.
This.
ReplyDeleteRyder has no redeeming qualities that I can see to date.
Brock-Rock for the WWE Championship is honestly a no-brainer for me, IF Lesnar wins at SummerSlam. The two biggest mainstream attractions they have against one another? Pair off Cena with the Undertaker and CM Punk against Steve Austin. You could blow WM XXVIII out of the water with that card.
ReplyDeleteI gave some thought to your post and yeah, man, you nailed it. This angle is all about burying the UFC in the only way they can. The WWE is way to insecure to accept UFC could take someone who walked out on them and become bigger.
ReplyDeleteDoes not matter. I'm not really all that enamored with him as a character but the point is, he got over and should have been rewarded for it more than just being a more frequent TV jobber. Everything that Santino has done in the last 6+ months was almost definitely written & pitched for Ryder until someone decided they'd rather have "their" guy do it. Whatever your opinion of the guy, people who get over should get pushed, or otherwise why the fuck are we even watching?
ReplyDeleteYeah, I don't think Brock-Taker is all that interesting since the result is a foregone conclusion, but again I'd bet money that's where they're going. (Since Brock beating HBK and HHH would smoothly transition into Taker.) To me it'd be way more interesting if Brock and Taker were each paired against one of the younger guys (say, Sheamus for Brock and either Cena or Punk for Taker). But I feel like we're getting Brock-Taker, Cena-Rock 2, and hell Punk-Austin at Mania. The timing of Austin's surgery plus Punk's heel turn makes me think this is it.
ReplyDeleteI'm beyond even giving a shit if Brock wins or not because obviously, either way, nothing will come of it besides another match where he'll job. I get it, but at the same time it's gonna result in something less fun than what we're getting. My problem with him wrestling HHH is that I think the match will suck because their styles will clash, HHH is really limited in what he can or will do these days, and he won't know how to sell what Brock does. I'm not a stickler for realism in wrestling but Jesus, it'd just be sad to see HHH powering his way out of a kimura after being in it for 5 minutes. But I can see it happening.
ReplyDeleteMan, if they ever put the rocket up his ass Kofi could sure as hell get over as a main eventer. Fuck Orton forever for killing Kofi's push a few years ago. That dude can be IT.
ReplyDeleteHis popularity outside of the WWE meant enough for them to pay him a shitload of money. He didn't get that money based on his WWE run.
ReplyDeleteIn fairness, Cena powered out of a kimura from Brock after being in it for what seemed like five minutes.
ReplyDeleteEverything you said about HHH also applies to him.
Maybe we will get to see Brock snap and just have his way with HHH. I don't think it would be much of a fight.
ReplyDeleteYeah, so?
ReplyDeleteFWIW I also wouldn't say Cena is limited in what he can & will do, and while he's not an ace mat wrestler he's more comfortable with it than HHH these days. Either way though I wasn't talking about him.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think only HBK has lost more matches at Wrestlemania than Triple H. Not even Big Show (4-8) has lost more Wrestlemania matches than Triple H (7-9).
ReplyDeleteSo this whole idea that he won't job at Mania is patently absurd.
I thought we were talking about Summer Slam? Mania's a different beast. HHH usually does whatever's best for business there.
ReplyDeleteAnd Shelton Benjamin. He'll put that guy over any day of the week, for some weird reason.
I know WWE and HHH are highly political... but I don't see Brock losing this one. I think he beats HHH clean and then sets up a match against the Undertaker at Wrestlemania.
ReplyDeleteWith HHH? Yes. He always gets the better of his opponents and they tend to come out looking the worse for wear in most of his feuds. See: Booker T, Randy Orton, Just about anyone DX 2.0 faced and Jeff Hardy.
ReplyDeleteLook at it this way. How often does Triple H lose? How often does he win when he really doesn't need to? Or just shouldn't? How much effort have they put into building him into one of the biggest stars in history? Who is portrayed as being a bigger deal, smarter and tougher than everyone else (except Undertaker)? Who's Vince's son in law, on the creative team, working backstage, helping run the company? Who loves "the business?".
ReplyDeleteSo do you think that guy, who rarely loses, even when he should lose, is going to lose to the guy who disrespected "the business"? If it's Randy Orton, John Cena, or even Undertaker outside of Wrestlemania, there's a possibility Brock wins, although probably not clean. But Triple H? Not happening.
They're very aware of what people might "think", even if it's not real. Like, Brock tore up the WWE, nobody could beat him. Then he left and won the UFC Championship, which a lot of people have the nerve to think is more legit than the WWE Championship. So if Brock beats Triple H it's like saying that Brock and the UFC are better than Triple H and the WWE. Brock the business disrespecter beating the guy who'd die for the business? The guy who succeeded in UFC also being able to beat WWE legends? They're not going to let 12 year olds walk away from Summerslam thinking UFC fighters are tougher than WWE Legends.
ReplyDeleteNext week on ROH: Terra Ryzing gets knocked out with an ether-soaked rag.
ReplyDeleteWasn't Shelton a punishment? Rumor at the time was that the trade of HHH to Smackdown was legit and he put up a shit about it. They let him go back to Raw but made him job to Shelton in return. Read on the internet, so who knows.
ReplyDeleteSince WM26 he's been beaten twice by Taker and once by Sheamus. So...he doesn't lose.
ReplyDeleteThis was my e-mail. I'm just depressed that Brock didn't get to go on a monster heel run like he should have. And it's just going to be worse because he's going to lose every match he's in. But what do we know? Obviously WWE knows what's best for business and what us fans want.
ReplyDeleteHow many matches has he really had since WM 26?
ReplyDeleteSeven.
ReplyDeleteMeanwhile the same people were bitching in the Raw thread about putting an actor(Sheen) over Bryan. It really doesnt matter who wins the match as long as its good. Wins and losses are a thing of the past and as long as Brock is booked strong in a match his value as a draw wont go away.
ReplyDeleteCena beat Brock but the thing I came away with was it looked almost real and was probably the worst beatdown I saw in a WWE ring. I honestly think Brock goes over and they have another match down the road.
Brock isnt going to go off into the sunset at WM with a win so Id see him winning at SS and maybe a few other times and then doing a job to make someone at WM.
ReplyDeleteIf we get a Bruiser Brody situation, I will mark out...if HHH has a limb snapped, I will really mark out.
ReplyDeleteIt's called karma... (and who knows the state of mind Brock is in if Dana White had the "worst meeting ever" with him.)
"The only time you can bet on HHH not winning is against Undertaker at
ReplyDeleteWrestlemania. And even then, you never know. Otherwise, I'm pretty
sure he's winning. "
Guess I just ran with Mania once I got to that part.
Yeah see you have to remember that they tell sophisticated and interesting stories.
ReplyDeleteHow many times as he hogged his way into a main event spot at wm that no one wanted to see him in, and how many times as he had his match go on last over hotter matches?
ReplyDeleteIf the WWE title isnt in the main event, im cool with part timers going at it.
ReplyDeletepart timers in the main event. No Buys.
Man, people are reading a lot into one clothesline. Especially since Brock already laid out HHH once. I really have no idea if HHH will go over Brock or not, and to be honest I don't really care who gets the pinfall as long as the match itself is good, which I think has the potential. Worrying about who gets the win in a match between two part-time wrestlers is pointless.
ReplyDeleteBrock makes a great monster heel. And yeah, often with those angles you have the monster destroy everything in his path, until the plucky babyface manages to outsmart and outlast him in the end. But HHH does not make a good plucky underdog. I've never felt he's a particularly strong babyface, but what strength he has as the face is more like the Undertaker or Goldberg (even if the personality and character is different). You want to see him kick the ass of the punk heel. Brock really doesn't need any protecting to portray the monster. Just look at him. He's a beast. I think these two work better as the "Indestructible force meets the unmovable object" than trying to remake Vader/Sting.
One thing no one is discussing is that huntors legacy as a worker is at stake here. Wm28 was a fantastic match but a lot of it was story driven and count me in the ever expanding camp that thinks the first match at 27 wasn't good. The fact is his matches with shameus (who has shown himself to be a solid worker able to get carried to a great match by elite workers at worst) were underwhelming, the worst match cm punk (imo the best north american worker right now ) had since he won the belt was vs hhh, and lets not even talk about that fucking nash match.
ReplyDeleteNow he has a high profile match against brock. Obviously during his first run lesnar was an amazing worker and we know he still has it based on that phenomenal match against cena. If this match at summerslam doesn't deliver a minimum of **** we absolutely must reassess huntors legacy as a good worker. If this match doesn't deliver hhh isn't a great worker. He has made himself a very entertaining character and played the political game better than anyone, but he was only a great worker for a small 3.5 year window that has long been closed. Unlike every other great that has adjusted his style with age and injury to stay great(flair, austin, rock, hbk the list goes on and on) hhh hasn't been able to.
We all lost egreigously when he wrestled nash.
ReplyDeleteWhen did he lose to Sheamus? I remember him winning at WM and Sheamus laying him out on Raw. And HHH beating the piss out of him and putting him through the announce table. Which made Sheamus respect him. Was there a rematch in there somewhere?
ReplyDeleteYes, and Ric Flair used the figure four a lot.
ReplyDeleteFaces getting the better of heels doesn't mean H is going over. It means it's a wrestling angle.
Sheamus beat HHH in a street fight at Extreme Rules 2010.
ReplyDeleteJust saying if anyone challenges the basic conventions of how a feud progresses its HHH.
ReplyDeleteWhich was the kayfabe reason he was out for about a year, too, so there is that.
ReplyDeleteI've been thinking that, too, especially if Heyman and Steph get involved. If nothing else, I'm holding out a small amount of hope that HHH will take a comically oversized cellphone to head at some point during the match.
ReplyDeleteI think Hardy's a rare example of a guy looking better for just working with him, at least during their title feud in 2008. He was competitive with him in every match and wound up going on to win the title and stay in the main event afterword. I think that's a lot better fate than the rest of those guy. If nothing else, he wasn't stuffed in a box and shipped back to OVW.
ReplyDeleteBut-but Triple H doesn't put people over.
ReplyDeletePlease don't defend HHH like he does what's right for the business, unless you think it was smart that he pinned Punk last year.
ReplyDeleteBecause if you don't lose a make-believe fight, you deserve broken limbs...?
ReplyDeleteWhile I don't think Triple H can do the week to week TV match anymore, I absolutely believe he has the chops to put on a great storyline brawl. Triple H has always had solid psychology and when you give him the right opponent and tools he can still pull off something entertaining.
ReplyDeleteIf they make it a streetfight and let Triple H plan the match it should be fine.
But that's a main event in any arena in the country!
ReplyDeleteIt wouldn't surprise me if WWE actually has a clause in Brock's contract that would allow them to sue his lights out if he actually did 'shoot.' It might be tough to prove in a court of law (especially with Lionel Hutz impersonator Jerry McDevitt on the case) but I'm sure Vince has worried about this possibility.
ReplyDeleteDouble agreed. Maybe Sheamus could be the end-game for Lesnar at WM29. Brock puts over one of the new stars on the way out of the door, rather than putting over Rock or Undertaker.
ReplyDeleteReassess his legacy as a worker? I think most of the IWC has him way behind his running buddies Flair and HBK in terms of all time greats no matter what criteria you're using.
ReplyDeleteHe does? It's a switch? You either have A) good for the business, or B) bad for the business in your genetic code and that's that?
ReplyDeletePeople aren't black and white, Triple H has made bad decisions in his career, but I think the good outweighs the bad, that's just my opinion though.
If you're HHH, yes. Don't you read these blogs? He's worse than Hitler for not putting over Benoit.
ReplyDeleteYou're an idiot.
ReplyDeleteBenoit is about the one guy HHH put over.
Guy is a selfish prick, excuse me for calling him out for bastardizing angles and jobs over the last ten years.
And yeah, if HHH is gonna book himself in an 80/20 feud with Lesnar, then yeah I would cheer Lesnar to buck the system and put HHH in his place with an in-ring shoot.
'm the game, Ive beaten them all Jericho, The Rock, Stone Cold, Jericho, SHawn Michaels, Jericho, Sheamus, Jericho"
ReplyDeletegod that line never gets old
Yoshi still works for WWE? Haven't seen him in a while, much like Trent.
ReplyDeleteThe bigger problem is that Brock "broke" Triple H's arm but Triple H ended up no-selling that and they haven't even talked about it since.
ReplyDeleteYeah it was awesome how he put punk over when punk had the sop thing going. Really took it to the next level.
ReplyDeleteYou know what's lame about this whole brock burial? By winning the ufc title he made the wwe look good. That absolutely gave wwe wrestlers an air of athletic legitimacy they didn't have before with the general public. Not sure why vkm wouldn't embrace that.
ReplyDeleteI disagree, for obvious reasons.
ReplyDeleteDisagree with what, people not being black and white or Triple H doing more good than bad?
ReplyDelete