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Intentionally lame material to see what talent can make of it?

Can you think of someone besides Bryan whose reputation was built so heavily on his workrate and in-ring performance that ended up breaking out as a bona fide star on the strength of his character/mic work/charisma to the degree Bryan has? Punk's always been known for his mic work. Angle's goofy character was part of who he was from the beginning. Eddie's "lie cheat steal" character helped him ascend to new heights in 2004 but that was always part of who he was, too. Bret didn't really ascend to any new heights with his amazing 1997 heel character even if it was a personal breakout for him in terms of depth of character. Austin was obviously a great in-ring worker who went into the stratosphere based off an amazing character/individual charisma but we'd already seen tremendous charisma and character from him in his "Stunning" and "Superstar" iterations in WCW and ECW, albeit in much different fashion than "Stone Cold."
 
Maybe I'm not familiar enough with Danielson's ROH work and I'm way off base here, but either way, help me out.

I think Bryan's pretty unique in that regard.  To a degree I'd also say Mick Foley because he was known for amazingly crazy in-ring performance but didn't really break out past goofy midcarder until the WWF run, but at the same time he was still showing some impressive personality in WCW.  But the way Bryan has taken the simple "Yes" thing and turned it into an ongoing war with the fans is nothing short of spectacular.  

Comments

  1. And the sad part is that Vince will always hold Bryan's height against him. Call me crazy, but I think he can be a massive super face just as big as Cena is now down the line. 

    I know WWE has their hearts set on Sheamus as Cena's replacement, but I think it's Bryan.

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  2. It didn't make him a star but I enjoyed Dean Malenko's tribute to James Bond in 2000.

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  3. When I first saw Bryan I always appreciated his ringwork but I thought that he was the very definition of "Vanilla Midget".

    I have rarely been so wrong.  This guy has timing, and charisma.  He understands how to play a crowd.  And he pulls it off very organically, and without coming across as faking it.

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  4. I agree. I just hope they don't hotshot a faceturn. I'd love to see Bryan stay heel, until the perfect angle presents itself (either he begins developing a rivalry with another heel, or there's some type of double turn, idk) where he HAS to turn face. Because right now the fans seem to want to cheer Bryan b/c it's fun, but once they're given a real reason to it can be epic. Perhaps now that CM Punk is firmly a heel he can be the catalyst for a big Bryan face turn in a few months. I know Vince thinks short people have no reason to live, but Bryan's by far the best worker on the roster and--more importantly--he has been KILLING IT in the sportz entertainment/backstage vignette department--especially anger management which I liked a lot--and hopefully the brass aren't blind to this.

    Sheamus is a pretty good wrestler but I just don't think he's the next Cena or whatever. I guess kickstarting a mega-face run with cowardly heel antics doesn't help (blindsiding Byran at WM, pulling Del Rio's foot off the rope at SS).

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  5. I thought it was "Suleiman"..

    No, nevermind, that's Hero's Quest 2.

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  6. Helms re-invented himself with the Hurricane.

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  7. He calls people "feller" and gets deep tissue massages with HHH. Sounds like a face to me.

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  8. The best part of that gimmick was they never bothered hiding the fact he was married. I think King's line of "Dean's the type of man to come home late, reeking of another woman's perfume, walk up to his wife, slap her on the ass and say "You're Next"!"

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  9. Also: Sheamus is already 34. A year younger than Cena, and a year older
    than Punk. If someone's getting to torch passed because of Cena's age,
    it makes no sense for it to be a guy who's less than year younger than
    him. 

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  10. Him calling people "feller" when he was still a heel is what made me like him in the first place. I also particularly remember a Raw where heel Batista angrily demanded a title shot, then Orton came out and angrily demanded a title shot then Sheamus came out and said "what's wrong with You People." That just ticked me.

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  11. Danielson's ROH work was similar in a way. He was such an amazing worker that a lot of fans began cheering for him. He used to have little gimmicks to rile the crowd up, but those caught on, too. ("I have 'til 5!") There were also a lot of fan chants that took off for him, too, like "You're gonna get your fucking head kicked in!" So, in a way, he was definitely getting experience playing off the crowd. 

    I can't recommend his storyline against Samoa Joe when Danielson was heel champion. I've never seen a crowd cheering for a heel to get his payback quite like that. Danielson was the heel's heel and people would cheer for his introduction and then wanted him to die. It was quite impressive. I wish ROH kept those DVDs in production because it was amazing. 

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  12. Don't think he was the kind of technical wrestling master that Bryan was, though.

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  13. I don't even remember that, but it's spectacular.

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  14. Just for shits, I'd love to see Raw start off with everyone on the roster coming out one by one angrily demanding a title shot.  By wrestling logic, AJ will be required to give them all a #1 contender's match.

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  15. 34. I had to check that - it just didn't seem right, but it is. You're right, they've put so much effort in to pushing the guy when there are younger prospects with far more potential.

    I was surprised to read that Ziggler is 32. He's older than Bryan.

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  16.  She'll cheerily tell a face he doesn't get a title shot, but he does get a match. AGAINST TENSAI. And she'll cheerily tell a heel he doesn't get a title shot, but he does get a match. AGAINST CENA.

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  17. Daniel Bryan is my favourite wrestler. In fact, he's the only reason I still watch wrestling.

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  18. The example in my mind is Pillman.  He was physically unable to do a damn thing in the ring after that wreck and he turned up his persona to make people turn rabid when he entered the arena.

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  19. not before tipping her head to the side.

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  20. Wasn't there a series of matches where DB won by small package? And then used to refer to himself as "Mr. Small Package"?

    Awesome.

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  21. I remember that. Awesome Lawler line and wish they gave that gimmick some more mileage.

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  22. Loved that Anger Management segment when Kane tells his back story and just prior, DB shakes his head and says, "this is a bad idea..."

    DB and Kane as a tag team! You can even put Harold (or was it Howard) as their manager!

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  23. The Bryan yes/no thing is one of the most bare-bones approaches to getting over I've ever seen. Heel cheers himself, crowd cheers heel, heel berates crowd, crowd mocks heel. All on two words. Beautiful.

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  24. It's obvious that's where they're going with this.

    Kane has always been a solid comedy guy when the storyline has allowed to do so. The wedding with Lita being tops -- "that was lovely"

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  25. What's funny is that the real life Malenko apparently has a great sense of humor, very sarcastic and dry wit. Just too bad that was never parlayed over in front of the camera b/c that gimmick is tailor made for someone with that kind of ironic sense of humor.

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  26. NEW ENGLAND CLAM CHOWDER... WHITE?

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  27. LOVED THAT.  Everything he did in ROH was just amazing.  Top to bottom, he was their MVP by far.  Punk or Joe can't even come close.

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  28. Actually in a WWE.com video interview on monday DB called himself Mr. Small Package

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  29. I'm pretty sure Harold is indy worker Scorpio Sky.

    I loved that moment when Kane first enters & sits next to Bryan & they just look at each other & both are shaking their heads. You can tell they both GET IT and are having a blast.

    Pretty amazingly for a guy who claims to not watch TV Bryan behaves like a sitcom character

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  30. There were Mr. Small Package signs in the crowd on Monday!

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  31. I really hope so. Bryan & Kane are very entertaining together and I bet they can pull together some SWEET

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  32. Double Ho Seven was great. As was Dancing Lance Storm, but I feel I may be in the minority there.

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  33. I disagree, I think he's a great heel because it's so damn fun to cheer for his smugness, but I don't want him to get neutered by turning. Keep him the way he is now because that's what's getting him over. 

    But I think Vince is OK with Bryan; he got a huge run for about a six-month period and hasn't been shoved all the way down the card like, say, The Miz.

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  34. Bryan getting himself over is one of the most insanely awesome things I've seen in my years as a fan. He's sticking it to everyone who didn't think he'd be able to get over as a character in the WWE. 

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  35. I loved it when they did that skit with him and Lita in the hotel room and J.R. was angrily criticizing Dean because he kept his socks on in bed.

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  36.  And pausing dramatically.  "You will get a match against................................................................ JOHN CENA!"

    "You will be the Number One Contender if you win a Triple Threat match against..............................................................................................................................................................KANE AND THE BIG SHOW!"

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  37. Along those lines, I heard that when Lance Storm arrived in WCW he was given all those titles as something of a joke or challenge, they never expected him to actually get over.  Of course once he did, Big Kev made sure to squash him like a bug.  

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  38. disagree on Eddie. before he first turned heel in the WCW he was one of those "typical" WCW cruiserweights (= a "workrate guy") who most people didn't think of as someone who could cut entertaining promos.

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  39. btw: how did the WWE manage to screwup AJ?

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  40. With his ROH stuff, he was a fantastic heel that always was smug and sometimes just plain nasty.  There's a great match with AJ Styles wherein, despite having lost twice to Styles, DB still insists on showing off as the superior wrestler.  Then when Styles matches him move for move, Bryan gets mean and starts getting chippy and basically throwing a tantrum in the ring.  He was miles ahead of everyone, but he didn't have the feedback to allow him to get better on the mic because that isn't ROH's focus.  He's improved so rapidly in WWE because he has people giving him help on the few weaknesses that he has.

    He's a natural heel that got turned into an "underdog" face  because of WWE's limited imagination.  He's a fantastic non-verbal actor who has made great strides in his promo delivery (but who still needs to make more improvements) and who plays well off of pretty much anyone.  It took some time for that personality to adapt to WWE's conventions, but there's a really good reason that they brought him back after the tie choking.  I think only Eddie made a similar transition.  He was known for his charisma for so long that people forget he was one of the "Vanilla Midgets" and it was only when they gave him the low rider and Chyna that he was able to open up.  I think that, if given the chance, both Paul London and Brian Kendrick could have been great characters, but that ship has sailed.  If you don't believe me:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRHtMfrYFxU 

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  41. They confused the character tics with the character.  

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  42. Taking her away from Daniel Bryan and overusing her in like 7 segments a night.

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  43. Kane and DB should get their own sitcom on the WWE Network!

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  44. I think one thing that's important to note about DB is that he's not just about the yes/no thing when it comes to his non-wrestling work. His promos are fantastic, funny and entertaining, ever since Big Show knocked AJ over.

    "AJ told me she loves me. And I appreciate that!".

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  45. Him chastising Show on the way back to the dressing room after that angle was what first made me notice him.
     
    "She weighs 85 lbs, you weigh FIVE HUNDRED POUNDS, what were you THINKING?"
     
    Such a simple thing but the delivery was just great.  The wife and I were both repeating that for days.

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  46. On one hand, they did always like to test guys out. There's a lot of guys who came in and could have been big deals right off the bat, but they'd usually start them off slow and give them shit to see how they reacted...on the other hand, they're very good at coming up with stupid ideas they think are awesome, so it might just be that.

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  47. The whole youth movement made no sense anyway. Push a young guy long before his peak and people will be sick of him by the time he's fully matured. All the greats have been in their mid thirties by the time they get a proper push.

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  48. It can be a Curb Your Enthusiasm type show where they play themselves, and it's about their misadventures traveling to and from Raw.

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  49. Holy shit, I would watch that so hard!

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  50.  Don't forget the Kaneites (sp?) promo!

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  51.  Yup it's Scorpio Sky, he did interviews about it. I guess he's going to developmental now. He was just recently in TNA as Mason Andrews.

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  52.  I love their cage match at Chicago Spectacular, one of my favorite ROH main events. Some people would balk at the finish being a little gimmicky but it was logical and something you'd never seen before. Plus I love both guys in the ring, so there's that.

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  53. In his ROH days and his early WWE days I always felt like D-Bry was just stereotyped by people: they see a smallish technical wrestler who looks kind of average and they just immediately assume he's a boring workrate freak in the vein of Benoit or Malenko that could never cut a promo to save his life. I always thought Danielson had more charisma than that in ROH, where he would get the crowd involved and work a cocky heel character and had even mooned the audience before. But seeing what he's been able to do in WWE has just showed that, honestly, promos might even be his strong suit. The guy may never get the fairest of shakes but no one can deny he is a once in a lifetime talent.

    FWIW I don't think he's really on as tenuous of ground as people believe. I'd heard before that Vince likes him because he can shoot like an old school wrestler and of course he has HBK's seal of approval which keeps him in HHH's good graces. He hasn't been fully buried since winning the title (even Wrestlemania, in their mind he was the kind of effective heel like Honky Tonk that people wanted to see get run over. They missed how much people like him, is all) and I doubt he really will.

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  54. Sweet Ace Ventura reference.

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  55. Oh man, Ross hilariously rode that train for weeks on end.

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  56. I think that's one of the reasons many of us are sick of guys like Orton and Cena still being around.

    Shit, could you imagine if Kenny had gotten over as a main event talent like they wanted? He was 19 when he got his singles push if I'm not mistaken. 

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  57. The YES! thing has made him, so I don't think he will ever slide into Miz territory. But I still doubt they will push him to that next level.

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  58. The more I see of PG era WWE, the more it puts 18 seconds in perspective.  They weren't trying to bury him, they actually thought they were doing him a favor.  They actually thought that giving him a "Wrestlemania Moment" was in and of itself a thing to put him over.  That's how the WWE thinks you push heels now.  It's insane on the surface, but I can't think of any other conclusion other than WWE has no idea how to book anyone not named John Cena, or not connected to the Attitude Era.

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  59. JR had a weird fixation with socks. I remember during the entirety of RTC he'd point out Stevie was wearing white socks, & would call him a white sock wearing nerd.

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  60. I know that they're both in their mid 30s, but I would think Cena has a lot more tread on his tires.  Ring age is more important than physical age.

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  61.  I completely agree with this.  Promos are a strong suit of his.  There may have been a couple times where he forgot one of his "lines" written for him by "creative," but he's one of the few guys that can spout off those lines naturally and/or organically.  I think it just comes down to his overall nature and demeanor.  He's a laid back guy who doesn't seem to get nervous very often. He seems more relaxed and more at peace on the mic than CM Punk even.

    I think from the day he set foot in NXT, he's knocked every angle out of the park, or at least got a ground rule double out of it. The NXT angle with Miz, the return from being fired and feuding with Miz and Ziggler, the plucky underdog friend of Big Show, the reincarnation of Macho and Liz with AJ (with some of the coolest subtle heel promos I've heard in a long time), the Yes/No thing... whatever angle he's been given has been compelling and entertaining.

    Unfortunately, I don't have Ryan's perspective because I've only seen his ROH matches, not his interviews and angles, per se.

    Orton and Punk put their foot in their mouth on a monthly basis, so I wouldn't be surprised if Bryan does get an Orton-like role to Sheamus's Cena-role a year or two down the line...as long as he eventually trims that beard.

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  62.  I thought it was red

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  63.  Ah, back when the King was a good announcer.  One of the best lines I've heard from him.  It still made me smile reading it 12 years later.

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  64. Honestly with the right angle, or opponent at the right event, I can see Bryan leapfrogging right past Sheamus; at least in the fans' eyes. He definitely gets more screen time on Raw than Sheamus.

    I know this won't happen, but it'd be neat. Say Bryan does get a big face turn and becomes the company's top guy. For his after match celebration (ie Hogan's posing, Austin's beer drinking, Rock's stand up comedy) it'd be cool as fuck if he did the Onita thing and and gave a warrior post battle speech to the fans ending with a giant YES!

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  65. Mr. Small Package:

    http://www.wwe.com/videos/daniel-bryan-talks-about-anger-management-classes-and-being-called-mr-small-pack-26048418

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  66. Vince doesn't need a massive super face right now.  He has Cena.

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  67. I think Joe would be close. His long reign as champ really solidifed the belt as something special rather than just another indy belt, and DB, with his long streak of awesome matches, brought it to the next level. 

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  68. What I also love about him is that he's so old-school. You stick him in any era and he thrives. That's a pretty amazing talent. 

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  69.  You are possibly the first person in the history of time to ever say (type) that sentence. Give or take Bill Clinton when Hillary was still doing it for him.

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  70. Cena...who gets booed out of the arena in his HOMETOWN!!!

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  71. I've never heard anyone say that before.

    But Sir, you go with what works for you.

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  72. Again, it's such a slight nit pitpick, but...

    THEY SHOULD BE PUTTING THOSE ON THE AIR AND NOT EXPECTING PEOPLE TO FIND THEM ONLINE!!!

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  73. And yet, "18 seconds" is exactly what propelled him to where he is now.

    I mean, if he hadn't have been made to look like a fool at WM, the fan backlash wouldn't have been as strong, his pops wouldn't have been as loud, and he would probably be back to spending months on end without an angle. That squash is exactly what prompted his fans (of which there were more than Vince probably realized) to band together and become so vocal in their support him.

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  74. I actually think the opposite, I don't think there's any chance that they WON'T push him to the next level.

    Sure, it may take a year or so until they really figure out what they want to do with him (keep him heel or turn him face), but he has basically EVERYTHING that Vince could want - he's great in the ring, great on the mic, does lots of charity work, never says anything unprofessional during interviews, and is a virtual guarantee never to have a wellness violation.

    This isn't like Zach Ryder, where he was a fad that half the audience was cheering ironically, Bryan is the best all-arounder since Angle.

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  75. The great thing about that though was once Ross started mentioning it, Stevie started wearing pants that were hemmed so high you had no choice but to notice it.

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  76.  Okay, that was about the most awesome thing I've heard all week.

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  77. I disagree, too. I think Daniel Bryan is just that one big angle (Summer of Punk, Edge/Lita etc.) away from becoming a main event staple.

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  78. They are trying to train their audience to become more interactive.  Ideally, they'd wean them off of TV altogether towards platforms that they have more control over.

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  79.  It's sad how far Lawler has fallen as an announcer. He was once so damn entertaining, now he just phones it in. Much like Bobby Heenan near the end of his WCW run.

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  80. And he can actually work, unlike Angle.

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  81. Hilary was actually hot in the seventies...

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  82. She & Bill used to look like The Dude and Maude Lebowski:

    http://www.thenextgreatgeneration.com/2010/07/hotboxing-the-oval-a-look-into-presidential-drug-use/

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  83. They look like the most stereotypical hippies ever.

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